Speaker 1: History versus is a production of I heart radio and
Speaker 1: mental flaws. Shifty Adroit's logathy, cold blooded, narrow minded, prejudiced, obstinate, timid,
Speaker 1: old psalm singing Indianapolis politician, no more backbone than a
Speaker 1: chocolate eclaire, a flood dub with a streak of the
Speaker 1: second rate, and the common in him puzzle with fat
Speaker 1: head brains less than a guinea pig. Yes, those are
Speaker 1: the words of Theodore Roosevelt, President of the United States, author, philanthropist,
Speaker 1: avid reader, and inspiration for the Teddy Bear. He was,
Speaker 1: from most accounts, a kind and sociable man. But if
Speaker 1: Roosevelt found flaws, he was quick to articulate them, a
Speaker 1: fast and furious torrent of put downs, designed to bombard
Speaker 1: the target of his attack with insults that might require
Speaker 1: a dictionary to fully process. Roosevelt didn't unleash these particular
Speaker 1: tirades at just anyone. He reserved them for individuals he
Speaker 1: held to the highest standard, because they held the highest
Speaker 1: office in the land. For Roosevelt, anything less than the naked,
Speaker 1: harsh truth directed at the commander in chief would be
Speaker 1: a disservice to his country. When it came to other presidents.
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt pulled no punches. How ugh did it get?
Speaker 1: We're about to find out. For mental flaws and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. This is History Versus, a podcast about how
Speaker 1: your favorite historical figures faced off against their greatest foes.
Speaker 1: This week's episode is t R Versus Other Presidents. Roosevelt's
Speaker 1: famously tempestuous attitude towards politicians may have started with his
Speaker 1: impossible standards. His role model for all things presidential was
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln, the sixteenth Commander in Chief of the United
Speaker 1: States and one of the few presidents Roosevelt had no
Speaker 1: quarrel with. He grew up in a household where Lincoln
Speaker 1: was revered, at least by his Republican father, Theodore Senior,
Speaker 1: or the His mother, Mitty, a Southern and Confederate sympathizer,
Speaker 1: likely had other feelings. He had worked with Lincoln's administration
Speaker 1: during the Civil War and had even joined Abraham and
Speaker 1: his wife Mary at church after Lincoln was assassinated. In
Speaker 1: his funeral procession ran through New York City from his
Speaker 1: grandfather's mansion in Union Square. Six year old Roosevelt and
Speaker 1: his brother Elliott watched as the president's coffin was carried
Speaker 1: through the streets. Photographer even captured the moment a young
Speaker 1: Theodore appearing out of the window and what would be
Speaker 1: the first of his many eyewitness experiences in history. Here's
Speaker 1: Clay Jenkinson, founder of the Theodore Roosevelt Center at Dickinson
Speaker 1: State University in North Dakota. Lincoln and Rose was the
Speaker 1: savior of the country. He was also a friend of
Speaker 1: his father, and tr worshiped his father and his father's associations.
Speaker 1: And he regarded Lincoln as somebody who had the moxie
Speaker 1: and the moral strength to do the right thing against
Speaker 1: almost impossible loads. And he knew that Lincoln had paid
Speaker 1: the ultimate price for that, that he had been assassinated
Speaker 1: in part because he grew in office, whereas most presidents,
Speaker 1: as you know, don't grow in office. They decline. But
Speaker 1: Lincoln was one of the few who actually grew in
Speaker 1: a big way during the course of its presidency. Roosevelt's
Speaker 1: admiration for Lincoln endured throughout his life as president. Roosevelt
Speaker 1: referred to him as my great hero, a degree of
Speaker 1: affection he reserved for very few people, aside from his father.
Speaker 1: With Lincoln's portrait hanging both in the White House and
Speaker 1: in his home office at Sagamore Hill, Roosevelt was constantly
Speaker 1: reminded of Lincoln's legacy. I look up to that picture,
Speaker 1: he said, and I do as I believe Lincoln would
Speaker 1: have done. He even kept a lock of Lincoln's hair
Speaker 1: in a ring, which Roosevelt war for his inauguration. It
Speaker 1: was given to him by John Hay, who had served
Speaker 1: in Lincoln's administration and went on to serve in Roosevelt's.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like a Victorian thing, and they
Speaker 1: would make jewelry into them. So that's what Hay does,
Speaker 1: and he keeps these, I think as two of the
Speaker 1: maid and he has them for quite a while and
Speaker 1: gives one the tr Aware as an inauguration. That's Tyler Caliberta,
Speaker 1: the education technician at Sagamore Hill, Roosevelt's one time home
Speaker 1: and now a National Historic site. I think Roosevelt saw
Speaker 1: Lincoln as kind of this incredible president, and I think
Speaker 1: in his own presidency would have liked to been president
Speaker 1: during a time like Lincoln. Nation was in crisis, and
Speaker 1: you know, he had to solve these kind of major problems.
Speaker 1: As president. Roosevelt enjoyed having a memento of Lincoln so
Speaker 1: close to him, but he was not so fond of
Speaker 1: one of the other presidents who would end up on
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore alongside him. Roosevelt was famously cooled towards Thomas Jefferson,
Speaker 1: blaming the long deceased president for his ineffectual efforts in
Speaker 1: building a military force during the War of eighteen twelve
Speaker 1: and for jefferson subversive opposition to George Washington's policies while
Speaker 1: serving as his Secretary of State. But it was Roosevelt's
Speaker 1: contemporaries that received most of his scorn. That rant about
Speaker 1: a cold blooded, narrow minded, prejudiced, obstinate, timid, olds all
Speaker 1: singing Indianapolis politician that was directed at Benjamin Harrison, our
Speaker 1: twenty three president from eight nine to eight nine, and
Speaker 1: the same man who appointed Roosevelt as a Civil Service
Speaker 1: reform commissioner around the start of his term. Roosevelt had
Speaker 1: campaigned for him when he was on the Republican ticket,
Speaker 1: So where did things go so wrong? For one thing,
Speaker 1: Harrison didn't really want reform for federal employees. The position
Speaker 1: was more of a figurehead role that didn't suit Roosevelt
Speaker 1: in his high standards at all. In his mind, if
Speaker 1: someone was granted a federal job, it should be because
Speaker 1: they deserved it and not because they were out a favor.
Speaker 1: For the six years he held the post Roosevelt was defiant,
Speaker 1: putting laxa daisical civil service workers and departments in his crosshairs.
Speaker 1: He advised Harrison to fire George H. Paul, Postmaster of Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: for granting jobs to his friends. His investigation into the
Speaker 1: Baltimore Postal Service, where Roosevelt found workers soliciting money for
Speaker 1: political purposes on government property, which, according to historian and
Speaker 1: Edmund Morris, was against the Civil Service Code, put him
Speaker 1: against Postmaster General John Wanamaker even more directly. I wanta
Speaker 1: Maker tried to run his own investigation into the matter
Speaker 1: and reported that it found that no wrongdoing had occurred,
Speaker 1: But a House investigative committee, acting on Roosevelt's insistence, found
Speaker 1: that Roosevelt was right. Here's Jenkinson, it was just a
Speaker 1: natural instinct of his to read the job as boldly
Speaker 1: as possible, and to make sure that he got himself
Speaker 1: in the newspapers, and to make sure that he was
Speaker 1: on the right side of these questions. And he wasn't
Speaker 1: afraid to take on his own political party. He'd take
Speaker 1: it right up to the edge. And whether they're just
Speaker 1: like so annoyed and disgusted with him because he won't
Speaker 1: he won't play the game. You know. He just couldn't
Speaker 1: play the game. And they wanted him to be a
Speaker 1: figurehead at least, and to be They knew that he
Speaker 1: was like the best stump speaker they had, and that
Speaker 1: he could galvanize an audience, but they wanted him to
Speaker 1: be less tactic and to be less certain of things,
Speaker 1: and to go along more than he did. This wasn't
Speaker 1: how government was supposed to work. Government wasn't supposed to
Speaker 1: be fair. Cynicism and cronyism mandated that politicians did favors
Speaker 1: and the winning team showed support. But Roosevelt didn't care
Speaker 1: what party anyone belonged to. He was on a mission,
Speaker 1: and if Harrison's allies were in the way, he had
Speaker 1: no problem taking them down. That commitment had consequences for
Speaker 1: their relationship. When Harrison and Roosevelt met, Harrison took to
Speaker 1: tapping his fingers, a nervous tick that developed as a
Speaker 1: result of the aggravation Roosevelt caused him. There was, of course,
Speaker 1: the situation with the money soliciting Baltimore postal workers, and
Speaker 1: the fact that Roosevelt went after William Wallace, the postmaster
Speaker 1: of Indianapolis and a man who also happened to be
Speaker 1: Harrison's best friend, for hiring incompetent and corrupt workers because
Speaker 1: they were Republicans. Later, Harrison would say of Roosevelt, the
Speaker 1: only trouble I ever had with him was that he
Speaker 1: wanted to put an end to all the evil in
Speaker 1: the world. Between sunrise and sunset, Harrison's overt displays of
Speaker 1: favoritism needles Roosevelt perpetuating some of his most articulate insults.
Speaker 1: He called Harrison the little gray man in the White
Speaker 1: House and a genial little runt behind his back. Roosevelt
Speaker 1: managed to last through Harrison's term and would end up
Speaker 1: being reappointed Civil Service Reform Commissioner once Grover Cleveland entered
Speaker 1: office in eight. He left his post in eight and
Speaker 1: became president of the Board of Police Commissioners in New
Speaker 1: York City. His next brush with the presidency would come
Speaker 1: when William McKinley ran for the office in eight McKinley's
Speaker 1: campaign had given Roosevelt pause before McKinley's first term Roosevelt
Speaker 1: wrote to his friend and Massachusetts Senator Henry Cabot Lodge,
Speaker 1: that it will be a great misfortune to have McKinley nominated.
Speaker 1: If I could tell you all I have learned since
Speaker 1: his campaign has progressed, you would be as completely alarmed
Speaker 1: over the prospect of his presidential nomination as I am.
Speaker 1: When it seems like McKinley would soon be named the
Speaker 1: Republican nominee, Roosevelt dashed off a letter to a sister baby, McKinley,
Speaker 1: whose firmness I utterly distrust, will be nominated, and this
Speaker 1: I much regret. Roosevelt didn't dislike McKinley. He noted he
Speaker 1: was an honorable man, of very considerable ability and good
Speaker 1: record as a soldier and in Congress. But where Roosevelt
Speaker 1: felt Harrison was politically savvy, he caught the impression that
Speaker 1: McKinley was without a spine. He is not a strong man,
Speaker 1: Roosevelt said, unless he is well backed, I should feel
Speaker 1: rather uneasy about him. In a serious crisis, whether it
Speaker 1: took the form of a soft money craze, a gigantic
Speaker 1: labor riot, or danger of foreign conflict. Roosevelt's tune changed slightly.
Speaker 1: When McKinley was elected G. I. R. Was an ardent Republican,
Speaker 1: and he could never stray from the Republican camp, and
Speaker 1: so that was dictated a lot of what he did.
Speaker 1: Kinley appointed Roosevelt Assistant Secretary of the Navy, but the
Speaker 1: piece didn't last long. He thought that McKinley was unimaginative
Speaker 1: and unnecessarily cautious, and and that McKinley was timid about
Speaker 1: going to war against Spain in and tr really went
Speaker 1: on somewhat questionable campaign to sort of force McKinley's hand
Speaker 1: to declare war against Spain. When McKinley said, you know,
Speaker 1: we've had one big war during my lifetime, I hesitated
Speaker 1: to begin another one. But tr read every possible story
Speaker 1: coming out of Cuba in the way that made the
Speaker 1: Spanish look worst. Made it sort of a righteous issue
Speaker 1: of whether we stand for anything, especially after the sinking
Speaker 1: of the main So that's why he called McKinley names
Speaker 1: and said that he had the backbone of a chocolate eclaire.
Speaker 1: He would later campaign extensively for McKinley second term. By
Speaker 1: this point, Roosevelt was more than just a supporter. After
Speaker 1: a two year term as Governor of New York. He
Speaker 1: was a vice presidential candidate on the McKinley ticket. Roosevelt
Speaker 1: campaign for McKinley in a really big way in against
Speaker 1: William Jennings. Bryan McKinley didn't leave his home in Canton, Ohio.
Speaker 1: He ran that front porch campaign and sent out this valuable, hectic, crazy,
Speaker 1: energetic vice presidential candidate to do all the work on
Speaker 1: the stump. And Roosevelt, of cards, threw himself into it
Speaker 1: just head and shoulders, and had the time of his
Speaker 1: life and took on Brian and I probably McKinley would
Speaker 1: have won anyway, but it's Roosevelt who did the heavy
Speaker 1: lifting in the campaign and really found his voice in
Speaker 1: the American West. While doing that, he said a horrible
Speaker 1: things about Brian. He said he was a human trombone,
Speaker 1: which is virtually my favorite thing, that my favorite Roosevelt
Speaker 1: insult of all. So he believed that McKinley was sound economically,
Speaker 1: and he realized, especially after that McKinley could be manipulated
Speaker 1: or managed, let's put it, to pursue a more vigorous
Speaker 1: American role in the world than he might instinctively have intended.
Speaker 1: One wouldn't think that Roosevelt would exert a little more
Speaker 1: patience with the guy on his campaign ticket. But it's
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt we're talking about here. For one thing, Roosevelt
Speaker 1: didn't really want to be vice president. He thought the
Speaker 1: office was ineffectual and constricting. I would a great deal
Speaker 1: rather be anything, say, professor of history, than vice president.
Speaker 1: He said, here's Caliberta, there's a man who cannot set still,
Speaker 1: and you put him in the vice presidency, which we
Speaker 1: just regarded as an idol officer. But Roosevelt's friends knew
Speaker 1: it was a step closer to the presidency. Senator Lodge
Speaker 1: urged him to take it on and stick by McKinley side,
Speaker 1: declaring it invaluable for his future in politics. So why
Speaker 1: would Akinley select him as a running mate. It was
Speaker 1: more indifference than anything. Supporters buzzed in McKinley's ear that Roosevelt,
Speaker 1: then the governor of New York and a war hero,
Speaker 1: would bring some much needed fire into the campaign. Plus,
Speaker 1: the New York Republican Party machine desperately wanted him out
Speaker 1: of the state, and so McKinley and Roosevelt became the
Speaker 1: Republican hopefuls of nine Ohio Senator Mark Hannah, who viewed
Speaker 1: Roosevelt as a loose canon, was not a fan. Don't
Speaker 1: you realize? He said that there is only one life
Speaker 1: between this madman and the White House. Roosevelt's concerns about
Speaker 1: the role proved accurate. McKinley never consulted him on policies
Speaker 1: and refused to let him interact with the Senate as
Speaker 1: a liaison, as he had done with his previous Vice President,
Speaker 1: Garrett Hobart. Roosevelt meanwhile, found McKinley's glacial decision making process infuriating,
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't have to endure it for long. On
Speaker 1: September six, McKinley was shot in the stomach by anarchist
Speaker 1: Leon shul Gash. He died of gang green only a
Speaker 1: little over a week later. According to an eyewitness, when
Speaker 1: Roosevelt heard the news of McKinley shooting, a look of
Speaker 1: unmistakable anguish came to his face and tears immediately filled
Speaker 1: his eyes. Well, tr was was in upstate New York.
Speaker 1: He had presided over the Senate for I think five
Speaker 1: days before they adjourned, and now he was sort of
Speaker 1: just wandering and giving speeches and going hiking and camping
Speaker 1: and writing and doing all the things that Piotore Roosevelt does.
Speaker 1: And he got the word that McKinley had been shot,
Speaker 1: and he made an emergency trip to Buffalo to be
Speaker 1: at McKinley's bedside. And then he realized McKinley was probably
Speaker 1: going to recover, so he went back. He thought it
Speaker 1: was unseemly for him to hang around um the sixth
Speaker 1: Man's bed, and so he went back to upstate New York.
Speaker 1: And he was on mom Marcy, the highest point in
Speaker 1: the state, when he a messenger came running up the
Speaker 1: path and informed him that the President was going to
Speaker 1: die that night. Roosevelt race to Buffalo to be by
Speaker 1: McKinley's side, although he would be too late to see
Speaker 1: the president before he passed. Though they had their differences,
Speaker 1: the tragedy overshadowed any political divide. Following McKinley's assassination, it
Speaker 1: was time for Roosevelt to step into the role held
Speaker 1: by men he had often criticized. The so called Madman
Speaker 1: was now in the Executive Mansion. With that experience afford
Speaker 1: him a new perspective on the challenges of the job.
Speaker 1: Of course, when it prompt him to bite his tongue
Speaker 1: when it came to his successor probably not, We'll be
Speaker 1: right back. Imagine what it would be like to disappoint
Speaker 1: someone with the standards of Theodore Roosevelt. Just think about
Speaker 1: that for a moment. William Howard Taft didn't have to
Speaker 1: think about it. He experienced it firsthand. Taft was Roosevelt's
Speaker 1: secretary of War. When Roosevelt left office, he selected Taft
Speaker 1: as his choice for the presidential nomination. Taft was named
Speaker 1: the nominee in and Roosevelt believed he would welcome advice
Speaker 1: with an open ear. Mhm. Not quite. Roosevelt felt Taft
Speaker 1: was a little too careless with his image, seeing Taft
Speaker 1: fishing and golfing instead of shaking hands and kissing babies.
Speaker 1: He urged Taft to put yourself prominently and emphatically into
Speaker 1: this campaign of his recreational activities. He said, I am
Speaker 1: convinced that the prominence that has been given to your
Speaker 1: golf playing has not been wise, and from now on,
Speaker 1: I hope that your people will do everything they can
Speaker 1: to prevent one word being sent out about either your
Speaker 1: fishing or you're playing golf. Roosevelt had very particular ideas
Speaker 1: about how a president should behave and what kind of
Speaker 1: image they should project. Presidential candidates weren't supposed to be
Speaker 1: seen enjoying themselves. I never let friends advertise my tennis
Speaker 1: and never let a photograph of me in tennis costume appear,
Speaker 1: he said. And Roosevelt believed that Taft should allow his
Speaker 1: constituents to see him smiling always, because I that your
Speaker 1: nature shines out so transparently when you do smile. You big, generous,
Speaker 1: high minded fellow. According to caliberta Tear had tight control
Speaker 1: over his public image, very much a thing with politicians today,
Speaker 1: but a new concept in TRS time. It's one of
Speaker 1: the things that made him the first modern president. He
Speaker 1: was very aware that you are going to be written
Speaker 1: about newspapers, your image is going to be broadcast or
Speaker 1: you know, through newspapers, people are going to see you,
Speaker 1: even the ones that you don't interact with. So if
Speaker 1: you're playing golf, like William Howard, tafted, that has its
Speaker 1: certain own connotations. If you're playing tennis, that has its
Speaker 1: own connotations. Roosevelt thought it was feminine. You didn't want
Speaker 1: to be seen as feminine, so he doesn't allow anyone
Speaker 1: to photograph him playing tennis. If it sounds like Roosevelt
Speaker 1: was acting as an image consultant for Taft, well he was.
Speaker 1: He was Roosevelt's handpicked successor, and his success or failure
Speaker 1: would in some way reflect back on Roosevelt's legacy. According
Speaker 1: to Jenkinson, Roosevelt was right to lecture Taft about golfing
Speaker 1: because average people back then couldn't afford to golf. That
Speaker 1: was a rich man's sport. Takes time, it takes money,
Speaker 1: it takes privilege. Rose said, if you want to be
Speaker 1: the leader of the people, you have to narrow the
Speaker 1: distance between yourself and the common man, not accentuated by
Speaker 1: being photographed in an aristocratic copy. Roosevelt had incredible political
Speaker 1: instincts now. He wanted to be photographed climbing a mountain,
Speaker 1: or being lowered on a rope in front of a waterfall,
Speaker 1: or killing something, because then that would be something people
Speaker 1: could really respect. But if you're photographed doing something that
Speaker 1: only the privilege to get to do, then you're sending
Speaker 1: the wrong signal to the country. It's not hard to
Speaker 1: imagine that Roosevelt's nagging irritated Taft. The presses spin on
Speaker 1: things may have also rubbed him the wrong way. They
Speaker 1: decided that his last name could be an acronym short
Speaker 1: for take advice from Teddy Taf to beat Democrat William
Speaker 1: Jennings Bryan, and Year was sure his successor would continue
Speaker 1: his legacy of reform. Roosevelt left on a hunting trip
Speaker 1: to Africa for a year, allowing Taft a chance to
Speaker 1: make his own market office. So tr was not as
Speaker 1: good a judge of character as his wife. He did.
Speaker 1: He loved Taft, and Taft was an incredibly able man,
Speaker 1: but Taft really wanted to be the Chief Justice of
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, and that's when he was well suited
Speaker 1: to And it was his wife, Belly, who forced him
Speaker 1: to accept the presidency. He didn't really want it, but
Speaker 1: she was ambitious for him, and so tr thought the
Speaker 1: Taft would continue his policies. What he didn't realize is
Speaker 1: that Taft was not strong. He was big, but he
Speaker 1: wasn't strong. And so in the Republican Party at the time,
Speaker 1: there was the progressive wing of people who wanted reform
Speaker 1: and to end child labor and to lighten the burdens
Speaker 1: of the poor and clean up our food supply and
Speaker 1: so on. And then there was the standpat wing of
Speaker 1: rich capitalists had just lot of government to either be
Speaker 1: their handmade and get out of the way. And Roosevelt
Speaker 1: was able to hold those two tribes, those two factions
Speaker 1: of the Republican Party together, because he was a war hero,
Speaker 1: because he was our first cowboy president, and because he
Speaker 1: was Roosevelt. But tafted wasn't able to do it. He
Speaker 1: didn't have enough firepower, enough charismas. Taft had to choose,
Speaker 1: and he chose to move back towards the old stand
Speaker 1: Pat JP Morgan Rockefeller wing of the party. Taft didn't
Speaker 1: live up to Roosevelt's lofty expectations. He found it easier
Speaker 1: to be complacent with existing laws than to become combative.
Speaker 1: A former lawyer, he wanted to remain within the boundaries
Speaker 1: of office, whereas Roosevelt was keen on exerting as much
Speaker 1: control as he could. Taft possessed none of Roosevelt's firebrand policies,
Speaker 1: none of his aggressive attitude towards improving the country. At
Speaker 1: the end of the Africa trip, he wrote to Roosevelt
Speaker 1: to complain, I do not know that I have had
Speaker 1: harder luck than most presidents. But I do know that
Speaker 1: thus far I have succeeded far less than others. I've
Speaker 1: been conscientiously trying to carry out your policies, but my
Speaker 1: method of doing so has not worked smoothly. Poor Taft
Speaker 1: bemoaned that he couldn't even lose weight. In some ways,
Speaker 1: Taft was like a sibling looking up to a bigger
Speaker 1: brother for approval. He invited Roosevelt to the White House,
Speaker 1: but Roosevelt refused. I don't think it well for an
Speaker 1: ex president to go to the White House, or indeed
Speaker 1: to go to Washington, except when he cannot help it,
Speaker 1: he sniffed. Time and again. Taft would make advances and
Speaker 1: Roosevelt would rebuff them. Taft would later say Roosevelt's chili
Speaker 1: demeanor deeply wounded him. Taft was also faced with a
Speaker 1: fight between his Secretary of the Interior, Richard Ballinger, and
Speaker 1: his chief forester, Gifford pin Show, who had helped create
Speaker 1: Roosevelt's conservation policy. The result was pin Shows firing, and
Speaker 1: it felt that he had assurances from Taff the Taft
Speaker 1: would continue the progressive initiatives, particularly on conservation questions, and
Speaker 1: when Taft didn't Roosevelt felt angry, betrayed, and somewhat righteous
Speaker 1: and vindicted. Plus I mean, it's just the case that
Speaker 1: Roosevelt couldn't stand not to be in power. He just
Speaker 1: couldn't stand not to be the guy he was the
Speaker 1: youngest former president. Because he was the youngest president and
Speaker 1: made a stupid mistake by renouncing a third term, he
Speaker 1: left at the height of his powers before he had
Speaker 1: finished all that he wanted to do. The friction grew
Speaker 1: worse when Taft finally made a sweeping change, advising the
Speaker 1: government to sue the monopolistic U. S. Steel, an industrial
Speaker 1: behemoth Roosevelt had tacitly approved of in n in order
Speaker 1: to avert financial panic. Not only was Taft slow to act,
Speaker 1: but when he did, it was to try and reverse
Speaker 1: one of Roosevelt's decisions. And I rate Roosevelt actually penned
Speaker 1: entire published essays devoted to separating his policies from those
Speaker 1: of his one time friend. The problem. Roosevelt's decision in
Speaker 1: the U. S. Steel situation was probably a mistake. According
Speaker 1: to Jenkinson, the key players in the merger concealed their
Speaker 1: true motivations from the president. Economics was not to our
Speaker 1: strong suit, and he acted quickly to stave off the panic.
Speaker 1: But if he had more time to read up on
Speaker 1: his options, he might not have approved the merger. Still,
Speaker 1: nothing stopped him from defending the decision he had made,
Speaker 1: and it became abundantly clear that he had been manipulated
Speaker 1: and that it was probably an unnecessary thing and maybe
Speaker 1: an unethical thing for him to have done. He just
Speaker 1: got more and more and more righteous about it. And
Speaker 1: the same was true about Panama. When the Wilson administration
Speaker 1: gave them um Colombian government twenty five million dollars, he
Speaker 1: threw just a gigantic hissy fit over that and broke
Speaker 1: with the Wilson administration. A poison pen was not Roosevelt's
Speaker 1: only come back. He decided to challenge Taft. In the
Speaker 1: ultimate arena of the presidential election, Roosevelt announced he was
Speaker 1: returning to run in vying for the Republican nomination against Taft.
Speaker 1: Those references to a flub dub and someone with brains
Speaker 1: less than a guinea pig Roosevelt was referring to Taft.
Speaker 1: The incumbent was quick to retort, calling Roosevelt a honeyfuggler
Speaker 1: or someone who gains an advantage by cheating, as well
Speaker 1: as an egotist, a demagogue, and a flatterer. And after
Speaker 1: Roosevelt said he was no longer going to attack Taft personally,
Speaker 1: Taft proclaimed, having called me everything in the category of
Speaker 1: bad names that are mentioned in polite society, he now
Speaker 1: wishes to indulge in less emphatic expressions. So now they
Speaker 1: their their friendships has been damaged and frayed by all
Speaker 1: of this. But now it was really a tragic business
Speaker 1: because Taft loved Roosevelt. He actually wept and said, you know,
Speaker 1: he was my closest friend. I love tr And tr
Speaker 1: was much less emotional about it. He was he was
Speaker 1: really caught up in his own righteousness. And so they
Speaker 1: began to call each other names. And you know, Roselt
Speaker 1: was great at insults, called him a fathead, and you
Speaker 1: know all the other things that that he said. A
Speaker 1: puzzle with how did the public react to his insults,
Speaker 1: especially with Taft, because it's not like you're insulting just
Speaker 1: anyone when you call them guinea pig, power brain, you're
Speaker 1: insulting the president. Well, most of most people didn't know
Speaker 1: about this. Most people, you know, were so they knew
Speaker 1: that tr was this like this cowboy, and that he
Speaker 1: was that he shot from the hip, and that he
Speaker 1: was not afraid to punch somebody metaphorically or physically if necessary.
Speaker 1: Certainly that was his public persona, that he was a
Speaker 1: Christian warrior, and that he was not afraid to take
Speaker 1: on trusts or anything that got in his way. And
Speaker 1: he loved that, and he circulated those stories. He was
Speaker 1: glad that they circulated because he felt that they gave
Speaker 1: him a political advantage. But we know more about as
Speaker 1: than they did, because some of this was in private letters.
Speaker 1: The Republicans tried to curb the rivalry, offering to arrive
Speaker 1: at a compromise and find a third candidate. Roosevelt would
Speaker 1: have none of it. I'll name the compromise candidate, he said.
Speaker 1: He'll be me. I'll name the compromise platform. It will
Speaker 1: be our platform. After a controversial convention that saw the
Speaker 1: Republican National Committee award Taft the necessary delegates to guarantee
Speaker 1: his selection, Roosevelt could have been gracious in defeat. Instead,
Speaker 1: he remained in the race, breaking away from the Republicans
Speaker 1: and running as a progressive in his Bull Moose Party.
Speaker 1: The sniping continued. These were picked up in the newspapers,
Speaker 1: and there was like the public was following this feud,
Speaker 1: and Roosevelt wasn't sorry. He knew that his only path
Speaker 1: to victory was to bring down the sitting incumbent president
Speaker 1: of the United States, and so he wanted the public
Speaker 1: to share his view. The taft really wasn't up to it.
Speaker 1: Did any of his remarks come back to sort of
Speaker 1: bite him? Or well, you never really want to burn
Speaker 1: your bridges and t R when I neglect about this area,
Speaker 1: and I always say that that TR the post president,
Speaker 1: was really a very unpleasant person. He he just couldn't
Speaker 1: stand not being in power. And he didn't realize this
Speaker 1: when he left. He brought all these letters to his children,
Speaker 1: like I've had my time, and the public votes on
Speaker 1: and you know, nobody has enjoyed this more than I have,
Speaker 1: and it's time for others, and there's a weariness about
Speaker 1: me in the country. But he didn't believe it. He
Speaker 1: actually thought that he was the indispensable man, indispensable or indestructible.
Speaker 1: Preparing for a speech at Milwaukee Editorium on October fourteenth,
Speaker 1: Roosevelt was shot by would be assassin named John Shrink.
Speaker 1: He survived, he even finished his speech. Shrink later said
Speaker 1: he shot him in part because William McKinley had come
Speaker 1: to him in a dream and ordered him to do
Speaker 1: the deed. It seemed that Theodore Roosevelt's clashes with presidents
Speaker 1: both past and present were far from finished. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back in competing against each other, both Taft and
Speaker 1: Roosevelt lost. It was Democrat Woodrow Wilson who secured the
Speaker 1: nine twelve election, and unfortunately Roosevelt didn't care much for
Speaker 1: him either. Both men were from similar backgrounds, their childhoods
Speaker 1: made difficult by challenges Roosevelt had asthma, Wilson dyslexia. Both
Speaker 1: men lost their first wives to premature deaths. The two
Speaker 1: even worked together when Wilson was President of Princeton and
Speaker 1: Roosevelt was involved in trying to encourage the sport of
Speaker 1: football to be safer for athletes who are risking their
Speaker 1: lives with minimal safety equipment, and at one point they
Speaker 1: even kind of liked each other. When Wilson was elected
Speaker 1: president of Princeton in nineteen o two, Roosevelt wrote, Woodrow
Speaker 1: Wilson is a perfect trump. I am overjoyed at his election.
Speaker 1: Wilson was bookish and self aware. He knew Roosevelt appeared
Speaker 1: to be larger than life. He is a real, vivid
Speaker 1: person whom they have seen and shouted themselves horse over
Speaker 1: and voted for a million strong. Wilson said, I am
Speaker 1: a vague conjectural personality, more made up of opinions and
Speaker 1: academic prepossessions than of human traits and red corpusals. In
Speaker 1: the face of such self deprecating commentary, Roosevelt still let
Speaker 1: him have it with both barrels. Wilson, he said, was
Speaker 1: a good man who has in no way shown that
Speaker 1: he possesses any special fitness for the presidency. Here's Jenkinson,
Speaker 1: just a little poor Wilson, and treated him just so
Speaker 1: shabbily and undermine it. Most presidents when they leave are
Speaker 1: graceful to their successors. But gr just couldn't be. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't a partisan that he was equally awful to
Speaker 1: Wilson as he was to Ta as it often did.
Speaker 1: Roosevelt's scorn stemmed in part from a president who deviated
Speaker 1: from Roosevelt's well worn path. In a treaty with Columbia
Speaker 1: a few months before the opening of the Panama Canal,
Speaker 1: the United States proclaimed sincere regret that anything came between
Speaker 1: the friendship of the United States and Colombia, like the
Speaker 1: Panamanian coup, Roosevelt had sent a ship to support. To Roosevelt,
Speaker 1: that was an admission, a sign of institutional weakness. He
Speaker 1: would never have allowed that. It was an open defiance
Speaker 1: of his decision, rankled him even more. In a press release,
Speaker 1: Roosevelt called Wilson's handling of foreign affairs such as to
Speaker 1: make the United States a figure of fun in the
Speaker 1: international world. He criticized the treaty and with the help
Speaker 1: of Senate allies, blocked the treaty's ratification. When the treaty
Speaker 1: was finally ratified a few years after Roosevelt's death, these
Speaker 1: sincere regret clause had been removed, But it was more
Speaker 1: than a difference of diplomacy. In his heart, Roosevelt was
Speaker 1: a soldier. He lived for combat, be it verbal, physical,
Speaker 1: or territorial. When Wilson was faced with the decision to
Speaker 1: bring America into World War One, Roosevelt criticized his cabinet's pacifism.
Speaker 1: Writing to his friend Arthur Lee, Roosevelt said that it
Speaker 1: is not a good thing for a country to have
Speaker 1: a professional yodeler, a human trombone like William Jennings Bryan
Speaker 1: as Secretary of State, nor a college president with an
Speaker 1: astute and shifting mind, of a critical ability to deceive
Speaker 1: plain people, and no real knowledge or wisdom concerning internal
Speaker 1: and international affairs as head of the nation. On another occasion,
Speaker 1: he bemoaned Wilson's lack of action following the German sinking
Speaker 1: of the Lusitania and told his son Kermit that a
Speaker 1: lily livered skunk was occupying the White House. Speaking to
Speaker 1: the public at large about the sinking of the Lusitania,
Speaker 1: he said this represents not merely piracy, but piracy on
Speaker 1: a vaster scale of murder than any old time pirate
Speaker 1: ever practiced. Roosevelt said that the Act constituted warfare against
Speaker 1: innocent men, women, and children traveling on the ocean, and
Speaker 1: to our own fellow countrymen and countrywomen who are among
Speaker 1: the sufferers. It seems inconceivable that we can refrain from
Speaker 1: taking action in this matter, for we owe it not
Speaker 1: only to humanity, but to our own national self respect.
Speaker 1: A little Wilson's man hood over this that he wasn't
Speaker 1: a real man, because he said he used Nancy, I
Speaker 1: think he called him, and you know, made all these
Speaker 1: slurs about the virility of Woodrow Wilson because Wilson was
Speaker 1: trying so hard to keep the peace. And when Wilson
Speaker 1: said that he was going to keep us out of war,
Speaker 1: roosevelts and Roosevelt turned out to be right. By the
Speaker 1: way Roosevelt to was, we will have to get involved
Speaker 1: in this war. There is no way the United States
Speaker 1: of America is going to avoid the World War One,
Speaker 1: so we may as well get ready for it. And
Speaker 1: if we're prepared when the war comes, we'll be able
Speaker 1: to fight it more successfully and victory will be more complete.
Speaker 1: If you dilly dally around by the time you get
Speaker 1: in the war, you're not going to be ready for it.
Speaker 1: And that's the that's going to be a delay, and
Speaker 1: that means you're not going to be able to control
Speaker 1: the post war arrangement in Europe. You're gonna lose some
Speaker 1: of your leverage over the post war. Writing to his
Speaker 1: son Archie, Roosevelt was even more accusatory, placing the blame
Speaker 1: for the victims of Hallusitania directly on Wilson's shoulder. As
Speaker 1: a nation, we have thought very little about foreign affairs.
Speaker 1: We don't realize that the murder of the thousand men,
Speaker 1: women and children in the Lusitania is due solely to
Speaker 1: Wilson's abject cowardice and weakness and failing to take energetic
Speaker 1: action when the golf flight was sunk but a few
Speaker 1: days previously. Just a quick fact check here, though there
Speaker 1: were reports that the golf flight had been sunk, it
Speaker 1: was actually just damaged and towed in. Okay. Back to
Speaker 1: the quote, Wilson and Brian are both abject creatures, and
Speaker 1: they won't go to war unless they are kicked into it,
Speaker 1: and they will consider nothing but their own personal advantage
Speaker 1: in the matter. Wilson, however, did put up a fight
Speaker 1: when Roosevelt goaded him into one. The way to treat
Speaker 1: an adversary like Roosevelt is to gaze at the stars
Speaker 1: over his head, Wilson said. The men reconciled, if ever
Speaker 1: so briefly. When Wilson decided to join the war, Roosevelt
Speaker 1: came over to the White House and over Lemonade pitched
Speaker 1: himself as going back to the army to take up
Speaker 1: his post as a commander of the Rough Riders, which
Speaker 1: had Barnstorm to the Spanish American War in eighty eight
Speaker 1: and helped perpetuate Roosevelt's reputation as a hands on combatant.
Speaker 1: Wilson eventually refused, which once again drew Roosevelt. Hire war
Speaker 1: has has kind of changed since San Juan Hill. It's
Speaker 1: not done that way anywhere. There's no room for it.
Speaker 1: A voluntary cavalry unit in France. When Wilson wouldn't do
Speaker 1: it just through Roselt, who was a naturally pugnacious figure
Speaker 1: and one of gloried war, it threw him into a
Speaker 1: complete tailspin. He just wanted someone to punish, and there
Speaker 1: was Wilson, and so he wrote increasingly awful op ed
Speaker 1: pieces um and then wondered why Wilson wouldn't send them
Speaker 1: over to France with a rough rider unit. Wilson later
Speaker 1: said he believed Roosevelt's cause was born out of ego
Speaker 1: and self aggrandizement. Secretly, he may have also feared Roosevelt
Speaker 1: becoming a war hero once more could lead to a
Speaker 1: white house run in Roosevelt's four sons wound up in listing.
Speaker 1: One of them, Quentin, died in disguise over France. It
Speaker 1: was Wilson who confirmed the news via telegram. Roosevelt wouldn't
Speaker 1: live to see the remainder of Wilson's second term. He
Speaker 1: died on January six. Some of his remaining days were
Speaker 1: spent authoring editorials for the Kansas City Star about his
Speaker 1: repeated criticisms of the president. While it concerned Wilson, it
Speaker 1: summarizes Roosevelt's feelings about the office he treated with such reverence.
Speaker 1: The President is merely the most important among a large
Speaker 1: number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed
Speaker 1: exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good
Speaker 1: conduct or his bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in
Speaker 1: rendering loyal, able and disinterested service to the nation as
Speaker 1: a whole. Therefore, it is absolutely necessary that there should
Speaker 1: be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts.
Speaker 1: And this means that it is exactly necessary to blame
Speaker 1: him when he does wrong, as to praise him when
Speaker 1: he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen
Speaker 1: is both base and servile. To announce that there must
Speaker 1: be no criticism of the president, or that we are
Speaker 1: to stand by the president right or wrong, is not
Speaker 1: only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
Speaker 1: American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about
Speaker 1: him or anyone else. But it is even more important
Speaker 1: to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than
Speaker 1: about anyone else. Roosevelt was fiercely critical of the office
Speaker 1: of the presidency, a role he believed needed to be
Speaker 1: contextualized and challenged constantly, which could be one explanation for
Speaker 1: why he assessed other presidents so harshly. But there is
Speaker 1: another possible explanation where his insults, criticisms, complaints, and admonishments
Speaker 1: fed by ego by us since they he Theodore Roosevelt
Speaker 1: could and did do a better job. Perhaps I feel
Speaker 1: like a lot of his hostility, you know, was about
Speaker 1: sort of people failing to live up to his standards
Speaker 1: for what he thought the presidency should be. But do
Speaker 1: you think his standard was just like it should be me?
Speaker 1: Just think of it this way. Who would you think
Speaker 1: could follow him? Who has his mighty potency and his
Speaker 1: power of language and his patriotism. There's there's nobody. I mean,
Speaker 1: we think that Franklin Roosevelt in many respects saved the
Speaker 1: country or maybe saved the world. But he was a
Speaker 1: mere shadow compared to TR. And he always lived in
Speaker 1: envy of TR's vitality and Trs sheer political joy and
Speaker 1: being in a good slugging match with his opponents are
Speaker 1: perceived opponents. So I think, you know, we sort of
Speaker 1: locked ourselves into a problem because what follows t R.
Speaker 1: Wilson is a more kind of professorial figure, and then
Speaker 1: the whole series of harding and cool agent so on.
Speaker 1: These are just nonentities who released power back to the
Speaker 1: legislative French. So TR was going to have trouble no
Speaker 1: matter what. But it was his own personality problem, his
Speaker 1: own righteousness, and his own sense that he was the
Speaker 1: only one that really puts him in such an ugly
Speaker 1: light in the years from nineteen nine to nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 1: But Roosevelt wasn't fighting just for the sake of fighting
Speaker 1: or to have his own legacy polished. He fought because
Speaker 1: he felt it was the role of citizens to confront government,
Speaker 1: to force politicians to defend their positions and remain culpable
Speaker 1: to the individuals they represent. Theodore Roosevelt didn't want to
Speaker 1: fight other presidents. He wanted other presidents to fight for him.
Speaker 1: History versus a is hosted by Me Aaron McCarthy. This
Speaker 1: episode was written by Jake Rossan, with research by Me
Speaker 1: and fact checking by Austin Thompson. Field recording by John Mayer.
Speaker 1: Joe Wigan voiced Theodore Roosevelt in this episode. The executive
Speaker 1: producers are Aaron McCarthy, Julie Douglas, and Tyler Clang. The
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Dylan Fagan. The show is edited by
Speaker 1: Dylan Fagan and Lowell Brulante. Special thanks to Clay Jenkinson
Speaker 1: and Tyler Caliberta. So learn more about this episode and
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt, check out our website at mental fass dot
Speaker 1: com slash History Versus. That's mental fass dot com. Slash
Speaker 1: h I S t O R y vs. History Versus
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Mental Floss.
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