1
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,880
Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKF Daily with Meet

2
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,120
Speaker 1: your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,

3
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm taking a little bit of a respite before we

4
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 1: head into the craziness of convention at the end of August,

5
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 1: and so I'm leaving you, as always with some really

6
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,880
Speaker 1: good interviews. Coming up on today's episode is my conversation

7
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: with Jillian Kin, who is the director of Global Policy

8
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 1: and Research at IPASS, the leading organization working to increase

9
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:49,919
Speaker 1: access to sexual and reproductive healthcare globally. In this conversation, friends,

10
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,200
Speaker 1: we talk about Project twenty twenty five and how Project

11
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five is already underway in countries like Guatemala,

12
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,680
Speaker 1: and what we can learn about how these conservative policies

13
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 1: are being tested outside of our borders. And you know,

14
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 1: while Donald Trump wants to distance himself from Project twenty

15
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 1: twenty five, while you know, they just fired one of

16
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 1: the leaders of Project twenty twenty five, and Trump campaign

17
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 1: wants to release a statement and say that it's disbanded.

18
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 1: We know that that is let me think about it, bullshit,

19
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,760
Speaker 1: because they have no platform outside of that and they

20
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,839
Speaker 1: can call it whatever the fuck name that they want

21
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,399
Speaker 1: to call it, But the reality is this is what

22
00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 1: Republicans want. And there is leaked audio that is now

23
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,120
Speaker 1: going around of Kevin Roberts, who is the president of

24
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation, who says that it's totally fine if

25
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 1: Donald Trump wants to distance himself publicly from Project twenty

26
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,560
Speaker 1: twenty five. But guess what, they know what it is,

27
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 1: and so they're good to go with the fucking pr

28
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,400
Speaker 1: game that they're trying to run on the American people.

29
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: Right now, all I have to say wants a liar,

30
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 1: always a liar, don't fall for the robodote. Coming up next,

31
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 1: my conversation with Jillian Kane, Folks. I am very happy

32
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,520
Speaker 1: to welcome to OKF Daily. Gillian Kane, who is the

33
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 1: director of Global Policy and Research at IPASS, the leading

34
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: organization working to increase access to sexual and reproductive healthcare globally,

35
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 1: monitors the rise of anti abortion and anti LGBTQ movements

36
00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: across the world and has been on the front lines

37
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: looking at how Project twenty twenty five has been tested

38
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 1: globally before making its way into the United States. Jillian, first,

39
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 1: talk to us about your organization and how you came

40
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 1: to understand or see firsthand Project twenty twenty five in

41
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 1: action outside of the United States.

42
00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 2: Sure, thanks so much for having me on the shows.

43
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 2: So Project twenty twenty five came to our attention via

44
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 2: Valerie Huber. So Valerie Huber used to be in the

45
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 2: Trump administration. She worked in the Health and Human Services Department,

46
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,959
Speaker 2: and we were quite interested in what she was doing

47
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 2: because she had initiated during her time in the Trump

48
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 2: administration this initiative, an anti abortion initiative called the Geneva

49
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 2: Consensus Declaration in twenty twenty So we were following her

50
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 2: and that because this project was interesting for us because

51
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,800
Speaker 2: it brought together about thirty six countries to sort of

52
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 2: stand together and make a statement that was anti abortion.

53
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,920
Speaker 2: So as an organization that really cares about access to

54
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 2: reproductive health, sexual rights, and abortion in particular, we really

55
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 2: wanted to pay attention. So that's how it first came

56
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 2: across our sitelines.

57
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 1: So now Project twenty twenty five is probably one of

58
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: the scariest documents that I think in a long time

59
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 1: that have been created. A nine hundred page policy agenda

60
00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 1: to essentially reimagine America, reimagine what we understand and as

61
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 1: our democratic values and norms, taking on everything from the environment,

62
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 1: to reproductive health, to public education, so on and so forth.

63
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,360
Speaker 1: What your organization has seen is that this pieces of

64
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,799
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five have been tested, are being tested,

65
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: have been rolled out globally. Talk to us about that

66
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 1: where and where you have seen it and what information

67
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 1: it can provide for us as we are now less

68
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: than one hundred days away from the election.

69
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 2: So again, the starting point, and I think for this conversation,

70
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 2: the ending point really is the Geneva Consensus Declaration and

71
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,840
Speaker 2: then Valories Huber's work to implement it. So give a

72
00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 2: little bit more detail. Launched in the waning days of

73
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 2: the Trump administration, twenty twenty not enforceable, it's pretty much

74
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,320
Speaker 2: just a piece of paper and acts as a manifesto,

75
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,920
Speaker 2: but it's being used by the signatory countries to really

76
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 2: sort of data position against abortion, against diverse families, and

77
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 2: for national sovereignty. So a lot of these elements are

78
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 2: also a part of Project twenty twenty five. Moreover, the

79
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 2: link is very clear between Project twenty twenty five and

80
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,359
Speaker 2: Geneva Consensus Declaration and then this project that Valerie Huber

81
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,560
Speaker 2: has started as part of her new work since leaving

82
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 2: the previous administration. So she opened up this new shop.

83
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,600
Speaker 2: It's called the Institute for Women's Health, and within that

84
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 2: she designed what she's calling a women's health project to

85
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 2: attend to women and family and their holistic health. So

86
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 2: these are all very nice words, but it's really absent

87
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 2: any detail about what it includes. But she has said

88
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 2: that Protago, and that's the name of this project, is

89
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 2: the implementing sort of element for the Geneva Consensus declaration.

90
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of details here, but just to

91
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 2: step back, Geneva Consensus Declaration also makes several cameos in

92
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five and so in what we wanted

93
00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,799
Speaker 2: to do and really sort of understand how it sits

94
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,279
Speaker 2: in this Project twenty twenty five, And as you were saying,

95
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,720
Speaker 2: and how we have identified is that the pieces are

96
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 2: ready being put in place. If the protagoes to be

97
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,039
Speaker 2: the implementing instrument for the Geneva Consensus declaration, well they've

98
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,040
Speaker 2: already started and they've started it in two countries, Guatemala

99
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:16,840
Speaker 2: and Uganda.

100
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,919
Speaker 1: So talk to us about the Geneva consensus. Unpack it

101
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 1: for us. What are the elements that we see in

102
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five, and why, in your opinion do

103
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 1: you think that it is dangerous and something to be

104
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,360
Speaker 1: of note in the US.

105
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 2: So unpacking it, it's a very short document, it's one page,

106
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 2: the Geneva Consensus Declaration, and it has a set of

107
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,240
Speaker 2: four pillars which I mentioned, our family, anti abortion, and

108
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,920
Speaker 2: national sovereignty. The reason that this, you know, creates concern

109
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,720
Speaker 2: for US is that obviously, you know, abortion access is

110
00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 2: something that we believe firmly you should be available to

111
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 2: all people, and this is setting it up as something

112
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,600
Speaker 2: you know, that they're explicitly going after. So the lands

113
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 2: in Project twenty twenty five is that they say that

114
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,359
Speaker 2: US foreign policy should align with sort of the pillars

115
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 2: of the Geneva Consensus Declaration, so saying, okay, when we

116
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 2: make foreign policy decisions and specifically around overseas development aid,

117
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 2: and also thinking about how do we fund multilateral institutions

118
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,000
Speaker 2: like the United Nations, like the sort of the technical

119
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 2: bodies like UNFPA, unisef UNESCO. As we look at these

120
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 2: entities or foreign policy, we have to look at it

121
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 2: through the lens of the Geneva Consensus Declaration. That is

122
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 2: very clear in Project twenty twenty five. So again, what

123
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 2: are these pillars. Is this idea of national sovereignty, the

124
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 2: idea of anti abortion, the idea of a heteronormative family.

125
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,239
Speaker 2: These are all things that are contained within the Geneva

126
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 2: Consensus declaration. And they're saying this should be the guiding

127
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 2: post for our foreign policy and what it does, especially

128
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 2: around the issue of national sovereignty. And we're talking about

129
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 2: foreign policy, is it setting up human rights versus national sovereignty.

130
00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 2: So they're saying sovereignty takes precedent over international human rights,

131
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 2: and human rights that we do believe in are the

132
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 2: ones that are listed here in this one page document.

133
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 2: But also we can refer back to the previous administration

134
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 2: who put together this Commission on Unalienable Rights. I don't

135
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 2: know if you remember that from back in the day,

136
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 2: where again they put together this commission to look and

137
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,760
Speaker 2: review US priorities around human rights and sort of land

138
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 2: on what are the priority of human rights, which in

139
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 2: and of itself contravenes internetia. Human rights Human rights are

140
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 2: holistic right. You don't privilege one human right over now

141
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 2: that you don't privilege religion over reproductive rights. Like everything

142
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 2: has to be examined and continuum. So again there's a

143
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 2: lot of detail, but I think it's important to note

144
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 2: how all of these different angles are coming together with

145
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,520
Speaker 2: a really clear idea of how they're going to address multilateralism,

146
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,160
Speaker 2: overseas development aid, and women's rights in particular.

147
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,319
Speaker 1: So, for instance, you would look at a country, if

148
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 1: we're living in a Trump two point zero administration, you

149
00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: would potentially look at whether or not you're going to

150
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 1: be providing aid, providing resources, which we know that the

151
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: United States does to foreign nations based on whether or

152
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,080
Speaker 1: not they have access to abortion, based on whether or

153
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:17,679
Speaker 1: not they recognize LGBTQ people as you know people. So if,

154
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 1: in fact, let's just start there, these two things are

155
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: present in the country that is seeking aid right or

156
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 1: seeking assistance, then in the eyes of a Trump administration

157
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 1: two point zero, you would be denied across the board.

158
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure it necessarily works that way. I

159
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 2: think it's a little bit in the reverse. So US

160
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,520
Speaker 2: money can't go to fund those pieces. So we have

161
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,320
Speaker 2: the global Gag rule for example, right, So this is

162
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 2: the implementing policy to restrict funding for overseas development aid

163
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,680
Speaker 2: as it relates to abortion. So the threat, as it

164
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,120
Speaker 2: were from Project twenty twenty five, is that they're going

165
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,480
Speaker 2: to cut off funding for projects that support these issues.

166
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,880
Speaker 1: What would the damage be in doing that? Can you

167
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,320
Speaker 1: walk us through what a possible scenario would be and

168
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 1: how that would be damaging to said country.

169
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,079
Speaker 2: So we know, for example, the Global Gag Rule, which

170
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,160
Speaker 2: is this policy piece that gets shelved around with each

171
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,320
Speaker 2: new administration, Democratic Republicans, right, so Democrats get rid of it,

172
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 2: Republicans reinstated. So we know from previous administrations that when

173
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 2: the Global Gag Rule is implemented, it cuts off aid

174
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 2: from certain technical organizations that are providing health services, and

175
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 2: they cut it off on the grounds that are not

176
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 2: even on the ground saying that like if you even

177
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 2: say the word abortion, so even talking about abortion is

178
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,640
Speaker 2: something that will eliminate you from getting funding. So that's

179
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,760
Speaker 2: something that we can anticipate in the future. And we

180
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 2: also know there's been many studies because this policy has

181
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,719
Speaker 2: been around since Reagan, the harms that happen once the

182
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 2: Global Gag Rule is reinstated, so you lose funding, unwanted

183
00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,280
Speaker 2: pregnancies increase, and so you know the whole host of

184
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,760
Speaker 2: bad effects that happen when you start defunding health organizations.

185
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 2: So that's what we can anticipate. And also we know

186
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 2: that looking at Project twenty twenty five, they want to

187
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,320
Speaker 2: expanded global gagrill. They want to go even further.

188
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: When we're looking and examining Project twenty twenty five and

189
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,000
Speaker 1: we see the dangers that this could potentially cause women

190
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,959
Speaker 1: and people with uteruses in this country. And you said

191
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,360
Speaker 1: currently in Guatemala and remind me of the other country, Uganda, Uganda.

192
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 1: Can you talk to us about what is happening in

193
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 1: Guatemala and Uganda and things that we should be paying

194
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 1: attention to, because oftentimes here in the United States we

195
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,439
Speaker 1: don't really pay attention to those two countries in particular,

196
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,680
Speaker 1: but I mean in general, we're very American centric in

197
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,599
Speaker 1: our news coverage. So tell us what are some of

198
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 1: the things that have been happening in those two countries

199
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,839
Speaker 1: and where do you see possible similarities into how these

200
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,439
Speaker 1: policies could be rolled out in the United States.

201
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 2: So Valerie Huber, when she launched the for Women's Health,

202
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,880
Speaker 2: she started this protago project, and during her time during

203
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,360
Speaker 2: the previous administration, she had fostered really good relationships with

204
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 2: the previous president of Guatemala, jama Te. They had cultivated

205
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 2: this friendship relationship. A couple of years ago, jama Te

206
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 2: had a big ceremony where he declared Guatemala the pro

207
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 2: life capital of the Americas. Valeri Huver flew over there,

208
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,439
Speaker 2: she celebrated that event. So they go way back anyway.

209
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 2: She starts this parteco project, which is again ostensibly to

210
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,359
Speaker 2: attend to women's holistic health, and she piloted in Guatemala.

211
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 2: So this is a partnership that is done with the

212
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 2: Guatemalan government. So again, mind you, we don't have a

213
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,440
Speaker 2: whole lot of details about what is included. But what

214
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 2: we do know is Valeriy Huber's background. We know her

215
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,000
Speaker 2: background when she was in the previous administration. We also

216
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 2: know when she worked at the state level in Ohio

217
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,719
Speaker 2: where she's from, and she has always led on abstinence

218
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 2: only as sort of the driver for sexuality education. So

219
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 2: we know that. We know she led on Giva Consensus

220
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,559
Speaker 2: declaration anti abortion, so we can fairly with some certain

221
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 2: de assume that protago will include those elements. So what

222
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,439
Speaker 2: happens is they piloted in Guatemala, and if you look

223
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 2: at her materials, and this is quite interesting and kind

224
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 2: of circumvents normal protocols about how health projects are implemented,

225
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 2: especially when support from outside of the country is she said,

226
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 2: the way do we do it six steps. The first

227
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 2: step is to get buy in from the executive, from

228
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 2: the president. Now, I've never heard of a health project

229
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,000
Speaker 2: that runs through a president. That's just simply unheard of.

230
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,400
Speaker 2: And so again it really suggests that there is sort

231
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 2: of a political element to what should be a health project.

232
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 2: But you know, and she said, we have to have

233
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 2: buy in. She did the same thing in Uganda. She traveled,

234
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 2: she met the first lady, Janet mu seventy, same thing.

235
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,319
Speaker 2: They build up a partnership and then what's unclear is

236
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 2: sort of what are the financial implications of this. What

237
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 2: we also do know in both those countries is that

238
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,240
Speaker 2: high rates of sexual violence exist. Teen pregnancy is also

239
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 2: a problem. And so what we know is we have

240
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,720
Speaker 2: and this kind of ties into the multilateralism piece, is

241
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 2: we have un organizations, technical bodies like UNESCO and UNICEF

242
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 2: who partner with the government to do projects health projects

243
00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 2: that are grounded in science, that are grounded in research. So,

244
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 2: for example, we know comprehensive sexuality education is proven to

245
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 2: attend to, you know, educating youth and children about empowerment

246
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 2: about prevention. This suggested if she's coming in she valued

247
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 2: Hubert Institute for Women's Health. What happens to the previous

248
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,880
Speaker 2: partnership that the country has set up with these un

249
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,440
Speaker 2: bodies and then sort of looking bigger with Project twenty

250
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 2: twenty five. What happens if in a future administration funding

251
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 2: is cut off for these entities. So we know that's

252
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 2: going to happen. That's very clear in Project twenty twenty five.

253
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 2: And we know what happened from the previous administration when,

254
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 2: for example, during the pandemic they pulled funding from the

255
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,280
Speaker 2: World Health Organization, the pre eminent body that would you know,

256
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 2: support global health. So again we had there is a

257
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 2: pattern that has played out which Project twenty twenty five

258
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 2: is picking up and it's also it's amplifying it. And

259
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 2: so those to us are our reasons for concern it

260
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 2: and for being alert.

261
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 1: It's so fascinating, right because as you're talking, I think

262
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: back to COVID in the United States, and I think

263
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 1: back to the way that the Trump administration politicized public

264
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 1: health and now, when we think about public health, even

265
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,000
Speaker 1: for those of us who understand the importance of public health,

266
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 1: we see it through a very political lens because of

267
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 1: how it was weaponized. And so when you hear things

268
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 1: like women's holistic treatment, right, it's all of the right

269
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,120
Speaker 1: buzzwords in the right order, but has nothing to do

270
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: with actual health.

271
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 2: Right.

272
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 1: And so when we talk, I guess, how do you

273
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 1: think that we regain the messaging or the understanding around

274
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 1: public health where it needs to be moved outside of

275
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: the arena of politics and back into the arena of

276
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: medicine and health.

277
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not sure how to answer it, just

278
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 2: because given you know what you're saying in COVID, I mean,

279
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 2: you had all the experts, you had all the evidence,

280
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,440
Speaker 2: and then these crack pops show up and they tug

281
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 2: on people's emotions, they tug on people's fears, and so again,

282
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 2: you know, one can write all the reports, get them

283
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 2: peer reviewed, have them in you know, leading journals, it

284
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,160
Speaker 2: seems to not make a difference. So you know, I'm

285
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 2: not sure what the answer is, but I do know

286
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 2: that what the harm is. And so, you know, replacing

287
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 2: science and evidence with you know, ideology right, yeah, right, yeah,

288
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, and that's that's the zone that we're going into.

289
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 2: And again, I mean, I think this has been said

290
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: many times Visa v Project twenty twenty five, but really

291
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 2: it's a it's a handbook for a certain person, right.

292
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 2: It privileges the rights of a certain person. It's generally white,

293
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,600
Speaker 2: it's generally a man, and it's generally someone of the

294
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 2: Christian faith. And so you know, all of this is

295
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 2: so alienating to everybody else who happens to populate the world,

296
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 2: that happens to populate the United States. So yeah, what

297
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 2: would you.

298
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 1: Say then needs to be the alone arm that goes

299
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 1: off that people truly understand, because I think that in

300
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: this country, right with the overturning of Roe v. Wade,

301
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: I think it was the first time in said fifty

302
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: years where women and people with uteruses understood that the

303
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 1: possibility that a right could be taken away, that bodily

304
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 1: autonomy could be taken away, that now you have young

305
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 1: girls who have less rights and less autonomy than their

306
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: parents and their grandparents did. And so you know, unfortunately,

307
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 1: it takes the loss of something so major like Roe v.

308
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 1: Wade in order to awaken the masses to what the

309
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 1: larger agenda is. And so when you see that these

310
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 1: things are readily being accepted and unfolding globally, you know,

311
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 1: what is the alarm that should go off for people

312
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: in the United States as they look abroad for either

313
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 1: a guidance or in fear of what could possibly be.

314
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think all of these pieces are

315
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 2: a bit abstract to most people, you know, even the

316
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,879
Speaker 2: fact that the fall of Row was something that came

317
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 2: to a shock to a lot of people. I mean,

318
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 2: I think, you know, there's certainly you know, folks like

319
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,680
Speaker 2: ourselves who are watching this and it wasn't such a surprise.

320
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 2: So I think, you know, talking about the export of hate,

321
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 2: the export of anti feminism that is all embedded in

322
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,120
Speaker 2: this Project twenty twenty five. I mean, I'm not sure

323
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 2: how to realise alarm. I think I would maybe invert

324
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 2: the question and say, how can we alert our partners

325
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 2: overseas that this is what's coming down the pipeline. I

326
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 2: think that's where we can sort of, you know, get

327
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 2: the right attention and sort of this this again in

328
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 2: previous administrations, we know how this plays out, and Project

329
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,119
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five is promising that it's going to be

330
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 2: a whole lot worse. You know, it's going to be

331
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 2: tur road charge. And so what are the pieces? The

332
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 2: pieces are funding for Multila, the United Nations. Right, So

333
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 2: already the UN is an all liquidity crisis, you know,

334
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 2: recently there's literally like shutting the lights out early to

335
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 2: save money. I mean, it's bad. And the US is

336
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 2: one of the biggest contributors to the UN, if not

337
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 2: the big guess so what happens to that? I mean,

338
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 2: and not to say that like, you know, the UN

339
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 2: is the end all on the b all. It's very problematic,

340
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 2: but it's what we got and it's what we're working with.

341
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 2: So if that goes away, what are the dangers and

342
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,239
Speaker 2: who's going to come in and sort of save us?

343
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 2: So in the previous administration, when the Global Gag Rule

344
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 2: was introduced, immediately there was a lot of global solidarity.

345
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 2: A lot of you know, northern countries who supply you know,

346
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,640
Speaker 2: development aid came and said, okay, so the funding loss

347
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 2: that's going to happen from this Global Gag rule, we're

348
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: going to make it up and we're going to set

349
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 2: up I don't think that's going to happen this time, right,

350
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 2: So I think you start at the beginning of the conversation.

351
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 2: You know, the global shift to the right, the elections

352
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 2: in the European Parliament, you know, the elections at the

353
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 2: national level in Europe's all of that is changing the

354
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 2: dynamic that we counted on in twenty sixteen. So I

355
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: think that's another red flag, if you will coming down

356
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 2: the pipeline.

357
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: Jillian, I really appreciate you coming on and providing these

358
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: insights and kind of raising the alarm globally at a

359
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 1: time when we're very much focused domestically. Tell folks how

360
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: they can learn more about IPASS, you know, get involved,

361
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.

362
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, plug into our website ipass dot org.

363
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 2: We have a lot of information and ways to get

364
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 2: in touch with us, and we have a dedicated page

365
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 2: of research that addresses the questions around Project twenty twenty

366
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 2: five and Protego and ye feel free to email us too.

367
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making the time for woke.

368
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 1: If really appreciate you. That is it for me today,

369
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 1: Dear friends on wokf as always power to the people

370
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay

371
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 1: woke as fuck,