WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend-August 15th, 2020 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:08.239 Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.760 the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Over the next 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.959 two hours, we'll bring you news of the week, insights 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.560 from the magazine, and more. It is week twenty two 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:17.840 for many of us still working from home. My co 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.160 host Jason Kelly off this week on vacation in his place. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.240 Great to have Bloomberg TV and Radio anchor Alex Steel 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.360 with me and this as we talked a lot about 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.480 the virus this week. In fact, Bloomberg Business Week this 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.560 week is a special vaccine issue, looking at the biggest 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.320 challenges and promising solutions on the path to a COVID vaccine. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.519 It's a must read to understand the many headlines we 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.320 get every day on the virus and how close we 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.400 are to get in control of it, and the many 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.640 moving issues surrounding the virus. What's radical about some of 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:54.000 these vaccine approaches, Where is the manufacturing going to come from, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.400 and what are the political implications? Also where we are 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.560 in the process. Why work is pursuing a slow and 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.080 steady approach and vaccine nationalism. Yes, it's a thing that 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.640 dominated our coverage this week, so too did this. I 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.640 have no doubt that I picked the right person to 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.559 join me as the next vice president the United States 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.760 of America. Joe Biden chose Kamala Harris as his running mate. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.960 Bloomberg News political contributor Jeanie Zano on what a Biden 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.920 Harris ticket means come November. We begin this hour with 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.240 the magazine's deep dive into the path to a COVID 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.399 nineteen vaccine. Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber and Bloomberg 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.679 News US healthcare reporter Riley Griffin talked with us about 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.560 the issue and coverage, as well as Riley's story and 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.800 drug giant MERK taking its time to develop a vaccine 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.920 and approach that's paid off. Before Joel kicks it off, 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.199 there's got no Biggert story in the world right now, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.839 and that's sayings have been considering. You know, we've seen 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:51.680 social unrest, we're about seeing an election, but uh that 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.320 that clearly a lot of hingers on. But you know, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.040 I think we've all been fixated on um on everything 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.320 around the vaccine to the point that you know, we're 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:05.440 we're all becoming sort of better scientists and understanding, Um, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.640 how even approaches to vaccines can work, let alone you know, 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.359 the trials that all of them entail. So we figured, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.120 let's like look at this on the biggest level that 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.280 we can, but not just look at it in terms 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.320 of like the companies and the horse races, so much 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.120 as all the other things that have to happen around 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.040 a vaccine. It's like getting a vaccine is ultimately getting 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.639 a formula, right, but you have to get production distribution, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.280 there's politics, there's a whole bunch of other stuff. So 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.040 we've really devoted a lot of this issue to looking 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.480 at all these facets. But let's not forget the foot 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.760 race either, right. Thing that Um was really captivating about 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.440 Mark in this context is a lot of the big 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:53.760 vaccines that have come to civilization in the past decades 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.680 have actually come from murk. And while other approaches are racing, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.680 like you said, Carol, to get this thing done quickly, 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.359 Marcus in you know, we're not gonna be the first 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.239 out of the gate, but we're we know what we're 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.720 doing when it comes to vaccines. Uh. And that's what 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.440 Riley was able to write about Um and Reley talk 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.959 to us more about what Mark Why Mark sets the 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.800 bar where it sets it when it comes to vaccine development. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:22.880 I'd love to take you back a few months actually, 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.440 to the final weeks of Mayo and Mark first announced 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.720 they would be pursuing two coronavirus vaccines and an anti 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.640 viral treatment to be frank. News came rather late at 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.600 the time. The coronavirus had already swept the US, and 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.440 within days of that announcement we marked more than one 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.680 hundred thousand deaths in this country. UM. At the time, 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.680 though we were thinking through Mark, which has more than 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.440 a hundred years dominating the vaccine space, it had to 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.440 have something brewing. In fact, I had UM. It's spoken 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.680 with the director of the National Institutes of Health at 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.640 the time, Francis Collins, who it's said to me, don't 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.360 count Mark out quite yet. And I think you'll find 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.000 that those who know the vaccine world well always hold 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.520 that opinion. Don't count Mark out because though they might 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.160 take a more conservative approach to vaccine development, they have 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.160 quite the track record, as you mentioned. And to talk 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.240 about that track record briefly, I mean Mark is responsible 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:19.120 for the first US inoculations for chickenpox, marbella, measles, and months. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.400 In fact, that month's vaccine is the quickest to go 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.479 through the development to market in a matter of four years. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.080 Nobody has since beaten that record. Most American kids now 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.839 get Mark produced vaccines for all four of those things. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.560 And to top it off, the company of Pioneers Vaccines 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.880 for HPV and Justice has December bibola and that was 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.800 the first vaccine ever approved for that virus. So they 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.360 have scheme in the game. They know how to do 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.080 this work. And even though there are more than a 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.920 hundred and sixty vaccines in various stages of development for 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.760 the coronavirus, twenty six of those which have entered human trials. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.400 Mark is coming later. But you've got to watch Mark 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.400 closely because they know what they're doing. So when we 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.800 talk about like a slow roll of slow rolling vaccines, like, 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.000 what what does that mean? Do they just like do 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:12.239 more testing? Is it more trials? Yeah. So we've spoken 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.160 with top researchers and executives at the company and their 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.080 goal right now is to have global impact. So they 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.600 started their development process later, but they're taking a threefold approach. 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.599 They want to have a shot that's effective in a 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.800 single dose. That's notable because some of the front runners 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.479 that we see today they take a two dose approach, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.640 a vaccine plus a booster. They also want to make 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.000 sure it can be easily distributed around the world, and 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.680 last they want to rely on tread in true technology. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.680 So they're employing this kind of old school approach that 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.760 they have for decades um now augmented with genetic engineering 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.400 to add COVID specific proteins are arena. They've settled on 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.279 these two candidates, once based on their epola vaccine and 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.800 the other based on an existing measles vaccine. So it's 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.719 a at that in perspective. In terms of timeline, the 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.240 measles vaccine is going to launch into human trials later 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.800 this month. The e BOWLA trial, meanwhile, will kick start 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.600 in the fall. And again the fall is when we're 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.680 hearing some companies say they're gonna gonna seek an emergency 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.200 youth authorization. The market is just starting some of their 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.320 human trials at that point in time. One executive, speaking 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.000 in a congressional hearing said we shouldn't expect them to 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:30.320 come to market with a vaccine until at the earliest, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.479 but their goal here isn't to be first, it's to 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.039 be best. And that story by Riley Griffin and Robert 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.000 Langworth includes Mark CEO noting that those who suggest that 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.280 any vaccine candidate might be broadly available before the end 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.440 of the year is doing the public a disservice, a 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.560 reality check, you might say. Coming up, Business Week Economics 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.440 editor Peter Coyd goes all weird science on us as 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.840 he looks into what it will take to beat the virus. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.839 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week and this is Bloomberg. 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.839 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.440 Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. This week a special vaccine issue, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.080 and we are highlighting some of the stories in Bloomberg 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.680 Business Week magazine as it looks at the biggest challenges, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.000 the promising solutions, and really the weirdest science from the 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.720 molecular level on up. We go really, really deep when 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.520 it comes to the path to a COVID nineteen vaccine, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.840 as does Bloomberg Business Week Economics editor Peter Coy. He 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.560 makes us all so much smarter. He writes about where 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.360 we are in the process to a vaccine. Business Week 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.760 editor Joel Webber joining us once again as well. Obviously, 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.720 we have many, many different attempts under way here, and 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.720 it's all on attempt to really just have something that sticks, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.360 because the especially in the US, we have utterly failed 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:52.040 at containing this thing, and the vaccine is really starting 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:56.840 to basically be the only way out of this madness. So, Peter, 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:01.120 you talked to many, many, many people um for this article, 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.480 and I'm just curious, like, what were the what were 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.080 the things that really stood out to you when you 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.240 spoke to people who work on vaccines for a living, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.240 Just the creativity that's going on now. Vaccines have been 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.760 around for centuries, really going back to the cow pox 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:23.040 vaccine that stopped smallpox, and yet in the last few decades, 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:29.520 thanks to biotechnology, genetical engineering, there's just a profusion of 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.880 new concepts, entirely different ways of producing a vaccine. One 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.160 of them, I think is so cool, actually take some 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:42.040 of the nucleic acid UH that produces the the vacs, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.520 the virus when it reproduces itself, and you put that 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.960 into the human body. The human body produces a portion 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.840 of the vaccine, just some of the proteins, which is 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:57.240 not harmful but does stimulate the immune system, so the 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:03.480 body becomes the factory for making the vaccine. I want 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.400 to know the question that I can ask Peter Core 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.160 that he won't know the answer to. Oh no, no, no, 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:13.200 I don't have it. I never have it, right, So, Peter, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.840 I guess when we try and look at the vaccine 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:20.439 through then the economic lens and through the market lens, 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.680 Like what's the reality of one in a company says, hey, 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.599 this vaccine works in phase three and then all of 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.640 a sudden, everyone's great and everyone's good and we can 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:32.600 travel in life is normal again. Well, today, I guess, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.720 if you believe what came out of Russia, we already 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:39.000 have a vaccine. Uh well, it hasn't even started phase three, 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.640 So maybe we take a pause. Yeah, exactly. So I 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.199 think we're going to probably see more of these popping 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.040 up in different countries around the world. Thing, we got 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.920 one to go out in my gotlin, and we're just 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.520 gonna have to step back and say, is this trustworthy? 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.840 Because you really want to see a vaccine go all 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:00.640 the way through phase three for both efficacy and say 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.880 before you're gonna want to like put it into yourself 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.240 or your kids or your parents. Yeah, and that's gonna 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.640 be months. That's gonna be months, probably twenty either late 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.040 this year or early next year. Now, the hope is 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.880 that there are so many of them that even if 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.679 no one of them is perfect, they'll collectively give us 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:24.480 the amount of protection we need to be back this pandemic. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.600 You know, Peter, the part of this that I think, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.120 you know goes to what you're saying Alex about you know, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.400 a timeline and stuff, is is that there's a cost 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.319 associated with the pandemic. And obviously that is what's generating 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.400 headline after a headline every day. And it's also what's 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:47.400 you know, allowing UM scientists to sort of expedite some development. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:49.440 And you know, Peter, do you have a big number 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.600 here which I think, what was it, three hundred and 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:59.520 seventy five billion dollars, billion dollars for every month. That 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.640 is an insane amount. So when you think about the 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.520 economic implications of this and why vaccine is so relevant, 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.000 can you kind of help help make sense of that 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.000 for us? Yeah, So if you're thinking why should we 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:16.079 put money into this looney idea as somebody's got um 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.600 the answers you probably should because even if there's only 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:24.120 a small chance of its paying off, it's it's enough 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.040 to justify a fairly big expenditure. And the same thing 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.040 goes for manufacturing. Why would ever build a factory to 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.120 make a vaccine if we don't even know if it's 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.040 going to work well, because if it does work, you 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:36.840 don't want to be having to wait around while the 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:38.440 factory gets built. You want to be able to go 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:43.920 into production right away. And this whole attitude, I don't 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.480 think there's quite enough of it. I think the scientists understand. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.640 I don't think funders fully grasped it. There is some 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.920 pretty generous funny, but we could afford to be doing 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.040 even more, and it's unleashed, just as I said before, 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.760 a profusion of creativity, which this makes this sort of 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.760 a golden age for vaccinologists. So, for everything that we've 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.840 gotten wrong here in the U. S. Peter, perhaps the 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.640 strategy of of actually throwing billions of dollars around it, 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.160 or millions of dollars at various companies is maybe the 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.040 right way. Yeah, it actually it is billions. Uh it is. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.000 It is exactly the right thing to be doing. So 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.480 that's one case where um I mean, as I said 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:28.480 in the article, someday, when there is a vaccine or 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.600 actually probably multiple vaccines, assuming that they actually do what 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.800 they're supposed to do, We're gonna look back on this 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.040 as these these scientists all over the world, from India 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.040 to China to the US to Germany, We're going to 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:46.160 thank them. We're gonna thank them for essentially saving our society. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.240 Would be a happy day. Well. I don't want to 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.480 be a Debbi downer, but I mean you do point 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.080 out and the magazine, the magazine has talked about this 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.000 before that we still don't have a vaccine against HIV. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.920 So yeah, I mean, this is a complicated virus that 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.440 impacts people differently. That is so true. All right, So 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.960 I guess you did kind of bring down the optimism 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.280 I was trying to inject into the conversation just thirty 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:17.040 seconds to to react to that debut down. Very true, 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.120 we still don't have an HIV vaccine. This several other 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.440 viral diseases for which there are no vaccines. This one 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.440 is looking though, as if it does seem amenable to 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:34.120 a vaccine, and uh, in fact, again multiple vaccines using 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.680 different avenues. So something's probably going to work, maybe not 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.079 as well as say a small box actually maybe more 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.680 like the influenza vaccine, but it will have something, probably 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.040 within a year. And as Peter mentions, of course, we're 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.400 hoping to have some kind of vaccine, hopefully by the 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.160 end of the year. Many of the guests that we 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.760 talked to on our daily radio show, we get all 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.640 kinds of scenarios. Some are optimistic, like Peter and his reporting, 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.280 and that we will have something but the end of 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.559 a lot of others say, though, it's more like a 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.160 one story. And keep in mind that experts warn, as 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.480 Peter reminds and his story, that the new vaccines may 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.240 provide only some protection and only temporarily, more like the 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.079 annual flu vaccine that we get, rather than a knockout 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.240 vaccine that we have for polio and measles, So something 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.120 to keep in mind. Also, as Peter noted, there's still 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.560 no vaccine against HIV, so getting a vaccine for COVID 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.800 nineteen it's not an easy path, as we all know. That, 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.280 of course, was Bloomberg business Week editor Joe Webber. Also 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.800 Business Week Economics editor Peter Coy highly recommend you check 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.040 out peter story, as I mentioned we all get smarter 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.200 when Peter stops by coming up next. What we're seeing 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.880 is countries really having this in general, just this resurgence 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.120 of nationalism. We talked about vaccine nationalism. Yes, it's a thing, 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.240 and it is making this deadly disease even worse. You're 0:14:53.240 --> 0:15:03.200 listening to Bloomberg Business Week, and this is Bloomberg. This 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.040 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.000 from Bloomberg Radio. Our special issue of the magazine continues. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.280 We're looking at the path to a vaccine, a COVID 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.440 nineteen vaccine, something we covered throughout the week on our 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.760 daily radio show. These stories important even as news about 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.760 the virus continued to cross the Bloomberg and evolved, and 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.680 that included a story about another disturbing aspect of COVID nineteen, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.320 and that is vaccine nationalism. Bloomberg News Projects and Investigations 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.880 reporter Vernon Silver joined us from one of the hotspots 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.800 when it came to the virus. We're talking about Italy 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.640 Rome specifically, and he talked with us about how the 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.760 race for a vaccine has resulted in the jockeying of 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.920 governments to secure doses of promising candidates for their citizens. 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.240 He joined us along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Jill Weber. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.800 What we're seeing is countries really having this in general, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.960 just this resurgence of nationalism, and that's now manifesting itself 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.360 around how they're approaching the vaccine. And as countries are 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.640 digging their heels in to sort of do everything by themselves, 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:11.200 it actually makes the whole situation worse because through collaboration, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.080 we might have been able to pull resources and maybe 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.680 maybe reach a cure or vaccine quicker than we otherwise 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.520 might and benefit more people. And what I think Vernon 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.440 really found that was so interesting was being in Rome, 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.840 you know, which was one of the first places affected 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.440 by the pandemic. Uh. It really felt like Italy was 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.840 at sort of the forefront of this conversation. So so Vernon, 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.480 what was the Italian perspective on all of this? I mean, 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.400 what we did was started following the vial literally of 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.360 how the vaccine were being produced. And the first strand 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.200 came in just ten little vials that were sent from Oxford, 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:54.720 UH to Rome to this company that was going to 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.840 make over ten thousand doses for the trials. The very 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.960 first large scale trials of the vaccine in the world, um, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.280 and by happenstance um. The you know, the initial supply 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.919 of that vaccine was within the borders of Italy, and 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.920 the politicians here latched onto it and it kind of 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.040 it kind of steam, you know, it was a snowball 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.560 where you had more deals being made and more kind 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.359 of nationalist rhetoric coming out of the mouths of the 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.840 leaders here who needed a redemption from having been the 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.920 worst hit at the outset um and the the end 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.719 result is that we've got about, you know, a quarter 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.200 of the supply of the Astra Zeneca Oxford vaccine now 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.320 being bottled within Italy's borders. And how it plays out 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.600 in the end is one of the questions that that's 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.840 been left open as they balanced, you know, let's all 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.560 cooperate with well, we do have it here. Well, I'm 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.760 glad you brought that part up because I was wondering 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.000 what the nationalism part means. Does it mean that you 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.359 provide the money to the company to make the scene 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.600 that you then buy all the vaccine. Does it have 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.840 to be a local company that's making the vaccine, or 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.760 is it the distribution like the vials and the manufacturing part. Like, 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.840 there are lots of different angles to it. Yeah, and 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.040 the best way to understand it is it breaks down 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.400 into two areas that the bad actors and the bad planners. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.520 And the bad actors are, you know, the accusations against 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.879 the Chinese and Russian governments that they've been hacking the 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.159 Western efforts. The bad actors are. We already saw it 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.959 in March when protective equipment was being blocked by different countries. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.040 Ninety different countries blocked equipment that would have been of 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.159 use during the pandemic. Those are the Those are the 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.040 bad actors, and we kind of know about those the 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.399 bad planners. It's sort of just the splintering of where, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.000 you know, are you going to throw a lot of 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.399 money at it? You know, the Trump administration is throwing 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.560 ten billion dollars at this operation warp Speed that sucks 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.440 up supply poorer countries. Then you are trying to pull 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.760 money to buy their own supplies. That drives up prices. 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.280 And these come pans that are trying to you know, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.200 save the you know, save the world and also makes 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.000 the money or trying to find solutions. And Astra Zeneca 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.080 was a great example, because they've decided they need to 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.760 fight the nationalism by creating the supply chains on four 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.400 different continents. If everyone's going to fight over it, give 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.760 everyone their own darned supply chains. The Russia has a 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.960 supply chain of the Oxford vaccine, and Brazil will have one, 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.680 and there's the one in Italy, and there's a billion 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.840 doses being made in India. Okay, best laid plans, right, 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:33.080 we create vaccine or vaccines and the world has equal 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.119 access to it. And then there's reality. Is there vernon 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.480 the possibility the likelihood that we're going to see people 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.959 ordering the vaccine, but then there's going to be countries 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.240 who are not going to let it cross their borders. Absolutely, 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.440 that's what That's what the companies are planning for. That's 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:49.800 what the governments are planning for. That's why you try 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.879 to get a clear idea of how these these orders are. 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.280 Who goes first? You know, in the UK said, you 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.720 know it's been developed at Oxford, We're going to get 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.440 the first doses for our people. How does play out 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:01.880 in the end, And that's that's sort of what we're 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.760 looking at next, is that borders have become the battle 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:10.000 lines in this nationalism of the vaccines. That's Bloomberg Business 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:11.800 We get it. Or Joe Weber and Bloomberg News P 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.280 and I reporter Vernon Silver. What Vernon had to say 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.280 about borders becoming battle lines. It's a reminder that this 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.840 really is a war, a fight against the virus, and 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:26.080 some troubling and disturbing aspects as concerns about access to 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.239 a vaccine or something we might have to deal with 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.400 in the future. One more note, I want to point 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.639 out in Vernon's story that Astra Zenica has committed to 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.199 creating autonomous supply chains for the Oxford shop that it 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.600 is working on on four continents. It's a frank acknowledgement 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.760 that it isn't counting on a normal flow of goods 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.600 and really looking to create independent supply chains that will 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.000 enable full access to the vaccine around the world. You're 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.480 listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Still to come the head 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.560 of the largest healthcare provider in New York State on 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.560 getting through the crisis and making sense of the NonStop 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.879 news of COVID nineteen north while Healths President and CEO 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:05.840 Michael Dowling is straight ahead. This is Bloomberg. This is 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.840 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.040 Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm Carol Master. My co host Jason 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.760 Kelly is off joining me this week. Bloomberg Television and 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.040 Radio anchor Alex Steele plenty ahead for you in this 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.520 hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, as 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.560 the world continues to deal with the problems and inequalities 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.119 revealed anew we don't want to hand out, we do 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:31.160 want to hand out. Solomon Alee, head of the advisory 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.399 firm bearing his name, on why black wealth matters, Food 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.160 insecurity is on the Rise, the CEO of Feeding America 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.480 on the country's growing hunger crisis. Plus Roun CEO and 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.120 co founder Nate check It's on how digital main streets 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.000 are evolving amid our new world order. We begin with 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.960 the top story this week, Democratic President nominee Joe Biden 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.879 choosing California Senator Kamala Harris as his running mate. Bloomberg 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.280 News political contributor and professor of political science at Iona College, 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.000 Genie Zano, has more in the reality of a running 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.639 mate on election outcomes. These picks don't tend to change 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.200 a lot of votes. But what they do is they 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:09.240 really give voters a sense as to the decision making 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.399 of the person at the top of the ticket. And 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.639 I think in that respect, Joe Biden has done himself 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.359 a favor here. He made a sober pick after a 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.400 very intensive screening process, and I think he has now 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.920