1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Welcome. We welcome to it could happen here a podcast 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: here it happens. Uh, yeah, that that that happens. Yeah, 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm Christopher Long. I'm doing my best Robin impersonation 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: because Robert has abandoned us for another interview. We yeah, 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: we were. We are here to talk today about the 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: fact that it did, in fact happen here, by which 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean, the Supreme Court has essentially, by fiat overturned 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: drove Way and allowed Texas as a just draconian, weird 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: snitch paying, indescribably illegal anti abortion law to go into effect. 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of people I think are 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: shocked by this, and I think we're all sort of horrified. 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: But for those of us who grew up in sort 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: of right wing, magelical Christian communities, and watch how they 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: organized and watch how I'm mobilized, it's not really a surprise. No, 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm so bored with everybody's surprise. Please stop. I've been 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: saying this for so long, so long, so just like 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: just like standing in the street screaming from the rooftops. 18 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: Just please, yeah, y'all listen now. It's like like when 19 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: there's like a list of like the set schedule for 20 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: a show and then you're surprised that it actually had 21 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: that they do all those songs. Yes, it's like it's 22 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: like the writing has been on the wall and the 23 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: and the floor and the paper and the years, forty 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: fucking years, like there should be there, like there should 25 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: be outrage, but there should be no shock. Yes. Correct, 26 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: Garrison's also here. Hi Garrison, Hello, this is that could 27 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: happen here. We're talking about Texas is Um abortion ruling 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: and well, and then in the Supreme Court's ruling on Garrison, 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: Christopher already said that they're here. And then who who 30 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: are our other two people today? I'm Karen Darkwater. I'm 31 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: the co host of the Kitchen Table Cult podcast and 32 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: also a Democratic Assembly District delegate for California, and I 33 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: have feelings. And I'm Eve Attinger, the other co host 34 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: of Kitchen Table Cult podcast and angry writer. Mostly I 35 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: think all of us on this podcast could be qualified 36 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: as angry writers professionally angry online. I just realized we 37 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: should probably say that Karen and I grew up Quiverful, 38 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: which is you know, relevant to this subject. Yeah, we 39 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: should go into because I think all all four of us, 40 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: UM have grown up in some degree of of the 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: of the more extreme Christian factory. And yeah, you two 42 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: specifically have some what why why don't you explain to 43 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: the listeners kind of what your background is like. I 44 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: don't know, like the text version of it, because we 45 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: have other other things to talk about as well. Okay. UM. 46 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: I was raised as part of the Sovereign Grace Ministries 47 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: cult and was homeschool K through twelve and UM the 48 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: oldest of nine kids. My family were hardcore, quarter full 49 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: courtship people. UM. And then I left and got married 50 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: and then got divorced and got out and it exploded 51 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: my whole family and now they're all out too nice. 52 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: Very similar to Eve, with the exception of UM. My 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: parents did not go to Sam and Grace. They did 54 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: their own thing, and we're their own cult and church 55 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: hopped around a lot. Um. I'm the oldest eight ish 56 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: my parents had. My mom had ten full term pregnancies, 57 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: but two of them were still born, so I'm the 58 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: oldest of technically ten, but in reality eight. UM also 59 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: homeschooled K through twelve, grew up being told that I 60 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: was supposed to be, you know, a housewife and have 61 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: lots of babies, ran away in my eighteenth birthday, got married, 62 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: was married for seven years and a surprisingly healthy ish marriage. Um, 63 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: got divorced, started HRT, wound up in California, have been 64 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: working through all of that ship for the last like 65 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: twelve years at this point. And we grew up together 66 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: sort of. We know each other from high school. We've 67 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: been you know, conspiring to take over the world since 68 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: we were like fifteen. Yeah. Yeah, we've been friends since 69 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: we were like fifteen and did a lot of writing 70 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: in the day, and we still do. Like everything that 71 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: we're doing now is still stuff we did in high school. 72 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: It's like everything and nothing has changed. Like we're still writing, 73 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: we're still doing podcasts. It's just, uh, we've we've switched. Uh. 74 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: We were doing pod us when Audacity was in beta, 75 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: Like it was hard. Yeah, I guess I'm in the 76 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: slightly weird position of being in a group of people 77 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: where I had probably like I had not even probably 78 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: I had the least funked up right wing Christian childhood. 79 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, I still grew up in a I guess 80 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: more mainline like a town that was sort of dominated 81 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: by a sort of more mainline Evangelical University. It's as 82 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: hard to say, go back to the beginning on this 83 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: because you can pick like seven millions of roments. But 84 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: I think since since we're sort of focusing on abortion, um, 85 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: I want to start by asking about the story of 86 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: sort of how the Evangelical started caring about abortion, because 87 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: that's that's a relatively recent thing, especially compared to sort 88 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: of Catholicism, and so yeah, I guess how how how 89 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: did that start? And how you know what what sort 90 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: relationship between that and and the birth of the modern 91 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: religious right. Well, have you heard of Philish? Lastly? Philish? Laughly? 92 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: So much? Um? Gross, Okay, I'm not enough rage just 93 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: more than Enoe. I was trying to think of like 94 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: an appropriate like horror sound effect to go right after 95 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: her name. Yeah, we can. We can get Daniel to 96 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: add a horror Daniel add the worst possible sound effect 97 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: you can think of for after you says do you 98 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: know philis shop Philip shoply if it will not be enough, 99 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: but we have to try. Yeah, it will not, It 100 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: will not be dark enough. But just no, I'm just 101 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: sitting here being like, there's so much information. If I 102 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: just start is going to be a waterfall and like 103 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: somebody's going to have to jump in and be like 104 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: stop talking. Yeah, okay. So back in the sixties and 105 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: the book Jesus and John Wayne by Christ and Dum 106 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: gets into this a lot um, the church was having 107 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: kind of like a crisis of self in a lot 108 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: of ways. Um, this is the height of the free 109 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: love movement, and the Vietnam War is going very badly 110 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the church is losing youth to 111 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: cynicism and drugs and sex and like. So there's this 112 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: this whole like contingent of like OCEHP we have to 113 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: like get the political and religious stuff back on track 114 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: according to our belief system um, and birth control and 115 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: abortion we're not really part of the picture um for 116 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: that that strategy until like the eighties, and it was 117 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: kind of this whole like thing that was a manufactured crisis, um, 118 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: but it was it was the thing that they could 119 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: get voters of both Catholic and evangelical backgrounds to coalesce around. 120 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: And they stumbled into this because fucking phillashial athlete was 121 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: um really good at direct mail organizing. She was able 122 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: to get mailing lists and get like housewives with free 123 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: time to get on the phone and call elected officials 124 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: and just kind of show up storm Barton, storm Capital 125 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: Steps and like talk to officials and get you know 126 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: this like overwhelming appearance of like your constituency is for 127 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: this thing um, which is a really common thing that 128 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: you see in the religious rights still to Yeah, mailing 129 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: lists have such a has such an interesting background and 130 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: right wing organizing, but that would be like physical mailing 131 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: lists back in the day. Lots of the big names 132 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: in in like the growing fire right to that, and 133 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: even today you can even look at like stuff for 134 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: January six with like Trump's email list follows the same 135 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: follows the same strategy, and like the left ing the 136 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: Democrats never do this. Ship well, okay, actually there's there's 137 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: one instance. So there was someone who was involved with 138 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: shlafley Is organizing and the mailing list stuff who was 139 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: who flipped and was participating in Act Up New York 140 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: organizing and taught them how to use mailing lists. So 141 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: sure Sarah Schulman's book about Active New York gets into this, 142 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: and it's really interesting to see, like, but I think 143 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: that's the only instance I can think of that like 144 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: the left picked up on that, but shlaughly started it, 145 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: focused on the family, picked it up, everybody ran with it, 146 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: and it is the default method now for organizing a 147 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: block voter base. Yea. And one of the things that 148 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: she was doing, so she was against the r A 149 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,599 Speaker 1: and that was like her thing was the r A 150 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: is going to actually limit women's rights. And it was 151 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: kind of about, like, you have certain protections as a 152 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: housewife because you're entitled to like this level of support 153 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: and all of this stuff, and like you don't want 154 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: to be drafted. And so that was kind of how 155 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: she was framing that conversation. And she framed in one 156 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: of her Equal Forum newsletters the conversation about abortion as 157 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: being tied up in that, and that got people's attention. 158 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: And she was a Catholic, and the Catholics are have 159 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: consistently been against abortion, and the Evangelicals up until that 160 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: point were not, and they really just wanted to separate 161 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: themselves from the Catholics on this issue. And they called 162 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: it therapeutic abortion. So if it's like rape, incest, or 163 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: like dangering the life of the mother, they assumed that 164 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: those were reasonable reasons to do that, and they, you know, 165 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: we're worried about overpopulation, and so they were talking about 166 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: birth control is a good thing, and and the Catholics 167 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: were against all of it. And so Shafley was able 168 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: to mobilize this Catholic and Evangelical female voter base. Um, 169 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: white ladies, primarily white women. Um, white women are always 170 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: the problem. Um too move the the attention and the 171 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: conversation in this particular direction. And once they killed the 172 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: e r A, the rest of the evangelical political leadership 173 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: on the right, we're like, okay, this is like we're 174 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: crossing the ecumenical aisle. We should pay attention to this. Um. 175 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: So I mean, I've got um this this book in 176 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: front of me, here, all my sources here. So this 177 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: is The Evangelicals by Francis Fitzgerald, and it's kind of 178 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: the definitive history of the Evangelicals in America, and it's 179 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: fucking great. Um. One of the things that she traces 180 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: is this whole conversation. And there's this line in here 181 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: where it's like the Southern Baptist Convention affirmed a like 182 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: neutral stance on abortion, like against abortions on demand and 183 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: like you know, doing it thoughtlessly, but like they were 184 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: neutral on the concept overall until sucking yep, as they're 185 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: like group doctrinal policy. And that's around when like the 186 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: moral majority started becoming a thing, and also when people 187 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: were starting to freak out about like they're not being 188 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: a majority of white people. And at some point the 189 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: the rhetoric turned from well, I mean, it's always been 190 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: like about the babies, but at some point it got 191 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: translated into we have to literally outbreed the left, which 192 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: is what I grew up in. Yeah, so we grew 193 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: up in UM under the influence of Mary Pride's The 194 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: Way Home and The Long like All the Way Home Heard, 195 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: two books that she wrote about kind of that kicked 196 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: off the quiverable movement. UM. But let me go back. 197 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: I want to I want to go through this timeline 198 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: that I pulled pulled together yesterday. So the Moral majority 199 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: was started by way Rich in nineteen seventy The Southern 200 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: Baptist Convention started their pro abortion or neutral toward abortion 201 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: policy in in nineteen seventy two was when Schlafley started 202 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: opposing the e R A. N. Seventy three is rov Wade. 203 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy four is when Schlafley's newsletter goes out arguing 204 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: that the ear A is gonna make abortion you know 205 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: on the and um Billy Graham is still pro abortion, 206 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: and then Carter loses in yeah, and that's when the 207 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: whole thing flips once Reagan wins. That is that is 208 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: such an interesting timeline of events and basically basically it 209 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: went perfect for them, except except for like Roevie Wave 210 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: was a little bit of like a hiccup, but like 211 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: they really were successful in organizing in a way that's 212 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: almost kind of unparalleled in the ramp up to Reagan 213 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: getting an office, right, and then Mary Pride was in 214 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: the late eighties, and like it was so she like 215 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: founded the coverful movement of the like, actually, women, you 216 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: are being um contrary to your own satisfaction for yourself 217 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: if you are staying at work and not having babies, 218 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: and you will be like fulfilled if you go home 219 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: and keep house and had babies. And birth control is 220 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: against God's will and is like thwarding your like self 221 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: fulfillment and your best purpose. So like that's the book 222 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: that kicked my parents down the quiver full road. Yeah. 223 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: I think one of the interesting things here is and 224 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: you see this like in Italy too, although it's a 225 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: less right ring form with with the Christian Democrats. But 226 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: it's like this is like the the focus on, like 227 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: the sort of Christian focus on on rolling back feminism 228 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: and then bringing women into their movements is something that's 229 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: very very important to not just anti abortion stuff, but 230 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: to this sort of the broader rollback of of the 231 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: left over the whole course in the twenty century. And 232 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: you see this in you know, in the way that's 233 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: sort of you know, what what what what the left 234 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: is doing at this time, Like they have the feminist movement, 235 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: but the feminist movement in a lot of ways is 236 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: detached from sort of the workers movements, and this becomes 237 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: like the way you roll back the worker's movement is 238 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: the workers movements ignoring women, and so you know, the 239 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: right targets them and wins and and I think also 240 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, and this this is also you know, we 241 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: talked about this sort of with Reagan's alliance with the evangelicals. Weird, 242 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: but it's somewhat tenuous, but you know that this is 243 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, in in in a lot of ways, this 244 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: stuff like these people that this is more matority, like 245 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: this is this is how neoliberalism happens, and I think 246 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: like in in a lot like this, this is sort 247 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: of like I guess like you could have it like 248 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: the sort of you know, it's it's one of the 249 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: sort of electoral shock troop things that that happens to 250 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: start pushing this stuff. Well, it's such a class and 251 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: race based thing. And this is why that, like the 252 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: pushing back against feminism stuff started being so popular among 253 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: this particular group. I think is you had this idea 254 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: of like, oh, ship, this means that if our husbands 255 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: leave us or we leave them, we have to support 256 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: ourselves because we might might not be able to give 257 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: like stay at home wife levels of alimony anymore because 258 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: we won't have the legal protections under the e r 259 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: A if it passes, so like, uh, that means we'd 260 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: have to work. And that's not what white ladies do. 261 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: You know. It's just kind of like this like white 262 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: lady fragility thing. You know, it goes all the way 263 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: back through everything. Yeah, it becomes just like it becomes 264 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: this hammer that you can beat like everyone else with 265 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: like whatever sort of like and I think this is 266 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: why there's so much shock about Texas right now is 267 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: because It's like, um, the only women who are going 268 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: to be like actually introduced to new dangers right now 269 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: or the uterus having people introduced to new dangers under 270 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: this abortion ban under this new policy is white ladies. 271 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: Everybody else has been vulnerable in this way already, and 272 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: so the shock and surprise is like, Yeah, being a 273 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: white woman does not necessarily protect you from the patriarchy. Yeah, 274 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: especially if you're not rich, Like if you have money 275 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: to fleet the state of Texas, you're fine, but otherwise, 276 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: like you're just sucked. Racial solidarity screws you over once again. 277 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: M hmm. Everything comes back to racism, honestly. Yeah, Like 278 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: I think everything with this coalition is it like a 279 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: lot of the original basis of this and you can 280 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: talk about was more than I camp, but was about 281 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: like the original thing they were trying to do was 282 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: stopping desegregation from happening and maintaining desegregation, you know, And 283 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: this this feeds into sort of private school stuff. Yeah, 284 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: even take it Away movement started. I'm like, so have 285 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: you heard about Jones University? Sound effect for that one too? 286 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: We could we could talk. I'm planning and writing a 287 00:18:52,680 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: Bastards about Bob Jones University coming up here soon to degregate. Yeah. Yeah, 288 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: uh that only and like it was like like ninet 289 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: nine they allowed interracial dating, I think, Yeah, but they 290 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: were I think it was like yes, but also only 291 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: if your parents agree. Yeah, we still require parental consent. 292 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: All of all of my English was by Bob Jones 293 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: University Press. We ran into that a lot too. Yeah, 294 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: And the fun thing about the English is that you're 295 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: not actually learning English. You're learning like propaganda through the 296 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: veil of English. So like you learn about like climate 297 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: change denialism through your English program. Just just it's one 298 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: of the most most fun things. Yeah, is the way 299 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: that they structure their education. And like oddly to like 300 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure this is similar to I don't know 301 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: how your personal opinions on abortion evolved throughout your process 302 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: of de radicalization. Yeah, but like like like for me, 303 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: like for some reason, that was one of the last 304 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: things to change, Like I I got on, like that 305 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: was one of the last things to actually get like 306 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: kicked off of of my brain. Like I like I 307 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: changed on like a whole bunch of other views around 308 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: around like queerness and stuff, like way before I switched 309 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: around abortion, it was one of the things that like 310 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: they really like, like I think that's their propaganda, and 311 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: it really was able to like sink sink its claws 312 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: into my brain. Well, it's like it's like the Q 313 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: and On stuff and all of the like mythology around 314 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: sex trafficking that we have right now is like it's 315 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: all about save the babies. And then that's like engender 316 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: such a lack of critical thinking because your emotional engagement 317 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: locks immediately and they can convince you of anything and 318 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: most of it's not true. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, 319 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: I think it really is similar to a lot of mean, 320 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: all the qun stuff we're cut and stuff you know 321 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: that that was popped that was getting very big last year. 322 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: It's really just a continuation of this same thing. It's 323 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: just with it's just for the new mask on um. 324 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: A lot of this kind of stuff play is on 325 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: the same interest that is put into focused by the 326 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: same bad actors. Yeah, Like, it's honestly not surprising to 327 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: me that so many evangelical Christians and just like generally 328 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: right wing people fell for Q and On because it 329 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: already confirms all of their priors, Like they're already believing 330 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: most of this stuff and it's just like, oh, sure, 331 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: I can make that leap of logic, and like for us, 332 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: we're like there was, you know, a whole gymnastics of 333 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: course you had to go through, but they were already 334 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: already there. Okay, I want to jump in here and 335 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: tie up some some threads between these conversations, because one 336 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: of the things that these these conspiracy theories and the 337 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: like anti abortion stuff having common is anti Semitism and UM. 338 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: And so the mythology of the Q and on, like 339 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: celebrities using babies blood for skincare kind of thing goes 340 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: back to the Middle Ages to blood libel, which is 341 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: an anti Semitic um mythology that was used to excuse 342 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: like murdering lots of Jews um. And the similarly, the 343 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: whole conversation around abortion, the using stuff from the Old 344 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: Testament to proof text your evangelical belief in like like 345 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: the you know, life starts from conception kind of thing 346 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: um goes against Jewish tradition and Jewish understanding of these texts, 347 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: Like the Jewish tradition is life starts at the first breath, 348 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: so like if the baby is viable on its own 349 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: and able to come out and like then it breathes, 350 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: then it's a life, then it's a person. That's when 351 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: the spirit enters the body. As far as I'm my 352 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: understanding goes, and so the like evangelicals again using biblical 353 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: literalism and proof texting and trying to you know, shape 354 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: the Bible into a uh texts that they can reinforce 355 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: all of their prior beliefs around, rather than reading it 356 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: as literature with a historical context and like like collective 357 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: understanding by another group of people, like it's just one 358 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: of those another one of those examples, and so this 359 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: is built into it is this like yeah, well the 360 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: Bible says this that they It's like no, actually, like 361 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: that's not how the rest of the world has interpreted 362 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: these same texts. This plays into so many other things 363 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: that the right is currently grasping on. Like we we 364 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: could usually talk about the intersection and not not even 365 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: not even this intersection, but the direct continuation of anti 366 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: abortion stuff into anti vaxx stuff, Like all of these 367 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: things are the exact same thread. They all come from 368 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: the exact same place, and it's propagated by the same people. Um, 369 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: Like all of these things like once you start to 370 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: look into this, you're like, oh, no, it's all the 371 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: same thing. It's always wrapped up in this same spiral. Yeah, 372 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: I mean the m and it goes into using essential 373 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: oils for like healing and like not trusting doctors and 374 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: like there's good reasons to mistress the medical institution and 375 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: like big pharma. Not for these reasons though, I'm sorry, 376 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: like Glonial Silver maybe not, Like we couldn't if we 377 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: went to the doctor as a kid, like if our 378 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: parents were got to the doctor, that was that was 379 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: like a breach of faith. Um, you know, yeah, my 380 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: mom's a nurse, so like we actually had like skipped 381 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff. But Karen has stories. Yeah, 382 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: my parents they got involved in this cult called Cleansing 383 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: Stream and that was where they were introduced to demonic 384 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: possession and also faith healing, and they left the cult 385 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: because they believed the demonic possession levels of that group 386 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: was ridiculous and it was, but they didn't leave behind 387 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: the faith healing, so did not Like I literally didn't 388 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: see a doctor from the time I was like maybe 389 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: five until I was eighteen, and I went to the 390 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: doctor and I was like, I know, I had my 391 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: tetanus before it was ten and everything else nothing happened, 392 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: So please catch me up, because I didn't see anyone. 393 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: I had literally like infections that could have been treated 394 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: with antibiotics and cleared up in like a week that 395 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: lasted for like two years because my parents were that 396 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: adamant about the doctors being evil. And the reason was 397 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: because in the concordance, if you look up the word 398 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: uh for like medicine, it's parmachea and farmachea translates into witchcraft. 399 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: And so my parents were like, well, obviously that means 400 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 1: medicine is witchcraft, and witchcraft is of the devil, So 401 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: therefore all doctors in all medicine is bad. Excuse me? 402 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: Did they still take communion because that's also witchcraft? That's 403 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: that's right. But it was okay because it was Jesus 404 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: blood and body and not totally this like expired thing 405 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: of grape juice that has been sitting around in the 406 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: church closet for like who knows how long, for like 407 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: at least twelve years. At least it's aged grape juice. 408 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: I blank communion on all my witchcraft practicings. Now it's 409 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: got a lot of weird projection stuff with it where 410 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: it's like like blood libel. It's like, okay, so you 411 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: are from a religion the basic practice of which is 412 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: thinking something you think is blood, and so we are 413 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: now going to accuse everyone else of doing the thing 414 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: that we do as a religious tendant. But you know 415 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: the stuff doesn't that narcissist thing of accusing everybody else 416 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: of doing what you actually do? Yeah? Yeah, And I think, 417 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, I think there's kind of a at least 418 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: this is something that I've read into, is that like, 419 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't do that much good to point 420 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: out that there's beliefs or inc consistent like something it 421 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: doesn't matter, which it doesn't matter. Okay, so you'll know G. K. Chesterton, right, Yes, Okay, 422 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: So G. K. Chesterton was a British Englican pundit um 423 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: had like you know, wrote a bunch of you know, 424 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: cute little cozy mysteries, but also was a Catholic theologian. 425 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: And in his book Orthodoxy he has this concept which 426 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: is like outdated like ablest terms, but I'm going to 427 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: run with it because it's a really good analogy. Um. 428 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: He calls it the Madman's box, and he's like the 429 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 1: ad Man is the most sane of all creatures because 430 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: anything that does not work in his reality, he removes 431 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: it does not exist. So everything within his universe, if 432 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: you accept the terms of his universe, is true. And 433 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: I think about this all the time when you think 434 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: about fundamentalists and the stuff we grew up with is 435 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: but like, if it is going to threaten your core 436 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: logic system, remove it. It does not exist because it's 437 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: a you can, you can, and the like his whole 438 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: thing was like, actually, like the universe is huge, and 439 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: like we can't control it, and like we have to 440 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: get okay with that knowing things, which I love because 441 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 1: that's true. And the people we grew up with just 442 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: can't do that because they believe that like God is noble, 443 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: the universe is noble. And also, um, we're right about everything. 444 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: You can't. You can't rip someone out of an alternate reality. 445 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: It's not it's that's not how that works. You have 446 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: to you have to slowly coax them up with breadcrumbs 447 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: and even and that can take that can take years 448 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: or decades. Like you can't. There's there's never gonna be 449 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: a switch. Okay, So let's talk about our own shifts 450 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: like when did you when did you start believing that 451 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: abortion was cool? Like everybody here and what changed well 452 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: around when I was like fifteen or sixteen, Um, I 453 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: was in the years prior to that, I was learning 454 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: my own like queerness, which was kind of pulling me 455 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: out of some of like the harder beliefs that I 456 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: was into. It's like a it's like a preteen um. So, 457 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: like queerness was like the first step. But abortion was 458 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: like the last thing to crack because you're so ingrained 459 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: in this thing, like no, like you have to like 460 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: i'm i'm I'm against killing people, and if babies are people, 461 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: they have to be against killing babies, you know, no 462 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: matter what kind of age they are. That gets so ingrained. Um. 463 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: What what got me out was learning like more about 464 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: um philosophy of like bodily autonomy. Um. So that that's 465 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that was like the last thing 466 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: to crack. It's like learning about the importance of autonomy 467 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: and how that extends to pregnant people. Um. And so 468 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: that was the but it was, yeah, it was it 469 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: was like it was the last thing from like my 470 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: right wing like from like my far right wing upbringing 471 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: to get expelled, like it. It stuck around for a 472 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: ridiculously long time. Like I already considered myself kind of 473 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: like a social democrat, but I was still but still 474 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: was like yeah, but I think abortion should be avoided 475 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: at all costs. It was, it was, it stuck around 476 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: for such a long time. Yeah. That that was just 477 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: like for me too, And it was interesting. So like 478 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: my my like immediate family was like my parents were 479 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: like pretty liberal, but like everyone else around me was 480 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: like like extreme, like you know, it's far evangelical people 481 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: and like that. That sort of like the the well, 482 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: the pro life people have a point, we shouldn't kill babies. 483 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: If if you have to do abortion, it should be 484 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: like extremely rare, and like we should try to stop 485 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: it like that. Like that was what was one of 486 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: the sort of full things that I picked up, even 487 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: though like you know, like the anti abortion protests will 488 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: show up my school and I'd be like ha ha, 489 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: they're doing creation, but like you know that that like 490 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: that that the sort of like oh, well you don't 491 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: you don't want to kill babies, right? Like that that 492 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: took like even when I was like sort of going 493 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: further left in high school like that took really until 494 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: almost like college before I was like, wait, this is 495 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: ridiculous and sort of started picking up. Yeah. Again, it 496 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: was partially the bottle autonomy, and then partly it was 497 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: about learning the actual history of of what this stuff 498 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: is about and like coming like understanding the fact that 499 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: like it's not actually about none of the people talking 500 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: about this like actually genuine they care about the lives 501 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: of babies, like it's it's not about that, and like 502 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: abortion isn't soundmentally about that, and you know, and and 503 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: you know it's in some ways, like you know, then 504 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: this is a lot of people sort of will do 505 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: this thing where they like they like yell at the 506 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: at the Amagel closers like you don't care about babies, 507 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: like you'll shot them off the war or you're like 508 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: you let them like starve. It's like no, they don't care, 509 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: like it's it's not about that, it's just about sort 510 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: of yeah, and I think, you know, and I think 511 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: and I think like even a lot of people sort 512 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: of still get this, like don't understand that very well, 513 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: even even like the liberals on the left that like 514 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: they don't care, like it's it's it's it's just about 515 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: power and not anything else, and that you shouldn't like 516 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: take their argument seriously. Yeah. Yeah, So for for me 517 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: it was it was twofold. When you talk about like 518 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: the emotional thing that pulls you out of out of 519 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: like a illogical belief. It was one, I got additional 520 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: data about how birth control works. And two I had 521 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: a friend who had an ectopic pregnancy who was a 522 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: Catholic hospital and almost died because they wouldn't help her 523 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: out in time because even though it was very early 524 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: and it was not viable, the Catholic hospital would not 525 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: wait until like required her to wait until she was 526 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: at death store to intervene to save for a wife, 527 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: thank God. So that was the that was the emotional 528 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: thing that like kicked that down the road. The other 529 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: was just learning about like how conception works and then 530 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: the math of it and like so like seven out 531 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: of ten fertilized eggs will not implant in the uteran 532 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: wall and gets left off, like you can have a 533 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: whole lot more conceptions than you have pregnancies and you 534 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: will never know and that is perfectly normal and um 535 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: and just understanding that like taking birth control actually reduces 536 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: the risk of that taking oral ramonal birth control means 537 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: that you have like far less chance of having a 538 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: lost conception. That way, I was like, oh wait, so 539 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: if they were actually pro life, they would be making 540 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: everybody go on birth control because if they actually believe 541 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: to that it started at conception. Oh fuck. And and 542 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: of course like later on and this is maybe a 543 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: little t m I, but like, um, I had a 544 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: super early miscarriage last year, and just like thinking through 545 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: like how comfortable I was with all of my my 546 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: logic and decisions and where I'd come from and where 547 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: it was in believing these things. Like I was like, yeah, 548 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: twelve weeks, like I barely knew I was pregnant, and 549 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: like most people don't and I don't. This is not 550 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: a big deal. Yeah for me, it was like it 551 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: was it was a mix um of like one when 552 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: my when I was seventeen and my mom had her 553 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: last pregnancy, that's when I knew I never wanted kids 554 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: ever did not. I was googling how to sterilize, Like 555 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: what what can I do? I kept Okay, but you 556 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: have to tell you have to like give give a 557 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: little more deep one. Yeah yeah, okay, So uh, every 558 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: time that my mom got pregnant, my life would end, 559 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: and I, as a child, was the person who was 560 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: solely responsible for running the house. So I had to 561 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: feed my siblings, educate my siblings, bathe my siblings, make 562 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: sure they didn't die being children, like, do all of 563 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: the inside girl chores, um, and take care of my mom, 564 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: who like half the time had untreated preclampsia and like 565 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: could not move and was like a planet and it 566 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 1: would just happen. I like literally like there. I remember 567 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: having thoughts of like, she's a fixed object in the 568 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: entire household, is orbiting, orbiting exactly, That's exactly what it 569 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: felt like. Yeah, I was like, everybody's gonna assume you 570 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: mean size. That is not what you mean. I mean gravity. Yeah, 571 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: Like that's definitely isn't isn't uncommon for anyone in the 572 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 1: quiver fool type community at all. Yeah, it's it's pretty 573 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: par for the course. Like that's that's what the job 574 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: of the eldest daughter is. At least that's what my 575 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: parents blewd, which is why they did it every single time, 576 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: every like eighteen months for a decade straight. And I 577 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: got burnt the funk out because it started when I 578 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: was eight and ended when I ran away. Um, and 579 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: my mom was still pregnant when I ran away, and 580 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: I was just like, I can't like stop being a 581 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: person every like year for nine months straight, like my 582 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: I was responsible for my education as well, so like 583 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: my tank. And then when I was fifteen, they were like, 584 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: you know everything you need to do to be a 585 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: successful wife and mother. You don't need to learn math 586 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: or science or any of that ship um and so yeah, 587 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: so when I was exactly and they were like and 588 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: now like after I was fifteen, like when I turned sixteen, 589 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: they were like, well, now you're basically an adult and 590 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: you can like court and get married. So that tried 591 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: to happen, and they really just wanted me to like 592 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: go live their fantasy of becoming a wife and mother, 593 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: and it was a dream I never shared. One last 594 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: mouth to feed, one less mouth to feed, although I 595 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: don't think they thought it completely through because then they 596 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,919 Speaker 1: lost like the one person who knew how to keep 597 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: the house functioning, um, which is their fault. Uh. But yeah, 598 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 1: so with the last one, nutshell, I was courting my 599 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: mom got the positive pregnancy tests, they were like, well, 600 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: like this wasn't the answer they gave me. They were like, 601 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: we have theological problems with your partners, uh family, and 602 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: that's why I were breaking you up. But really it 603 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: was because my mom was pregnant and they needed me 604 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: to run the house again. And so I saw that 605 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: coming because I had, after a decade, become aware of 606 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: when my mom was pregnant before she was and I 607 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: was like, hmmm, this feels like pregnancy, um and yeah. 608 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: I looked up like what it took to become sterilized, 609 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: and I found Scarlett teen and I read about birth control, 610 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: and I read about how it works, and I realized 611 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: that I had been lied to. It doesn't abort babies. 612 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,959 Speaker 1: It like, like you said, even it's it's honestly better 613 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: because then you're not like accidentally aborting by having your period, 614 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: just a whole fucking thing. Um and yeah. And I 615 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I don't want this for myself, and 616 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: I became aware that like that was a choice that 617 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: I had, And so the first thing I did when 618 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 1: I saw a doctor was asked for birth control. And 619 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: it was through like having my own agency and realizing 620 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: that me not wanting to have children didn't make me 621 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: a bad person. And didn't make me a bad spouse, 622 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: and that it was like my choice made me have 623 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: a lot more compassion for other people. And then one 624 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: of my friends had an abortion and I was like, 625 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: and it was really good idea, and I was like 626 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,479 Speaker 1: I was there for them, and I was like, yeah, 627 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: like you're not ready to have a kid, that's valid 628 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: and you should do the thing. Because at that point 629 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: I had been like, you know, after raising my siblings, 630 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: like I understood how much it is to be a 631 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: parent and I knew that, like, if I wanted to 632 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: be a parent, I knew the responsibility that would be 633 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: and I knew I didn't want that responsibility and I 634 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: wasn't ready for that responsibility and who my friend wasn't. 635 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: So it was kind of through being burnt out by 636 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: raising children and then reading that like everything I've been 637 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: talking about birth control was bullshit, that I became okay 638 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: with it. But that was also like it wasn't it 639 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: was one of the first things to happen, but it 640 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: happened slowly, like I I became approach choice gradually over time, 641 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: instead of it just being like one kind of revelation, 642 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: it was like, oh, this is okay for me, But 643 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: am I sure? Is it? Is? It in in a 644 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: lot of like internal fighting. And I think all of 645 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: this can be really hard to understand if you did 646 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: not grow up inside because like if you grew up 647 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: in like like a liberal like democratic area and you 648 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: didn't go to church, all this probably sounds very whacky. 649 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: You're like, well, why didn't you just like why couldn't 650 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: you just not do that? Right? It's like it makes 651 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: very very hard, it's very hard to really grasp you. 652 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: We didn't like grub this because like even for me, 653 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: like I already was like by by the time I 654 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,399 Speaker 1: was like fourteen and fifteen, I was like yeah, like 655 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: like birth controls fine, like contraptions like contraceptive should be 656 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: free for people, like all these other like things. But 657 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: it's still like but we still we still shouldn't actually 658 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: do abortions, like we can, we can do all these 659 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: other things to limit abortions, so you can you can 660 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: get you can get like super far into that way 661 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: because like you get ingrained with this, like like even 662 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: even like saying like no abortions in the case of 663 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: incestor rape because as the because the phrase that was 664 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 1: repeated and to me as a kid. It's like, why 665 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: would you punish the child for the for the for 666 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: the sins of the father. Like that is so like 667 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: all of these things get ingrained in use so much 668 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: you can you can like wrap, you can like change 669 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: all of these strings in your brain to try to 670 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: have it make sense. Still you can be like, no, 671 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: I still want all these other things free, I want 672 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,919 Speaker 1: all these other preventive measures, but still that this this 673 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: last part, actually doing an abortion, is still something that 674 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: shouldn't happen for for these moral reasons. You know. I 675 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: think it's one of the reasons that this like decision 676 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: process or like process of like dismantling that whole thought 677 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: for us. One of the things that sped it up 678 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: was the fact that we got married so young, and 679 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: so it became like critically relevant, this is not theoretical 680 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: question anymore. This was a like we're burnt the funk out, 681 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: and like we do not want to get stuck in 682 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: the same path that our mothers were in. What the 683 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: fun do we do? I had in laws and my 684 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: excommunicated parents who wanted grandchildren, and I was like I 685 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: told people, like, give me ten years because I'm tired. 686 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: And then I had a his style. No, Yeah, I mean, 687 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not a coincidence that the time that 688 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: I've really started to like understand the more science aspects 689 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: of it and understand the party autonomy aspects was also 690 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: around the time I was starting to have sex with 691 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: you with with people like that. You know, I'm sure 692 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: that that that is not a coincidence either. It's like 693 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,760 Speaker 1: it's a combination of learning about these things and personal 694 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: experience and like the urgency of it got so intensified 695 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: for me when I realized, like my ex husband was 696 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: abusive to our cat, which was a kitten, and I 697 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: was just like, oh God, this is not going to 698 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: bode well for kids. And we were in the process 699 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: of like splitting up, and he listened to a Mother's 700 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: Day sermon at church and was like very inspired by 701 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: it and was like, actually, maybe we could make things 702 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,439 Speaker 1: work if you were a mom. I think I could 703 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: love you if you or a mom. And I kind 704 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: of looked at him and I was like, what the 705 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: fuck did you just really fucking say that? And he 706 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,879 Speaker 1: was like, where do you have to be like that? 707 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, we're done, Oh no, we 708 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: are done. Just like just having to have those conversations 709 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: brings the issue to the foreground so fucking quickly, like 710 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: you really suddenly realize it is actually life or death 711 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: for you. Yeah. And I think the last thing that 712 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: we could maybe touch on is the whole bounty hunter 713 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: aspect plays into a lot of this as well, of 714 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: like raising like holy warriors to track down these people 715 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,399 Speaker 1: who are doing the ungodly acts. Like this is kind 716 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 1: of like a wet and dream for a lot of 717 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:49,280 Speaker 1: young males who grew up in this thought process. Um 718 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: and watching this start to take shape in Texas is 719 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: like I think is very much kind of a should 720 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: be used as a warning of things to come. Do 721 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: you think they're going to do spin off of Fireproof 722 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: inspired by this events? Absolutely? Yeah, you know, like I 723 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: like really like I'm I'm sure they will be like 724 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: churches making their own web series that are like you know, 725 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: like a little like YouTube videos of people tracking down 726 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: like abortion doctors, Like this is going to happen, like absolutely, 727 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,879 Speaker 1: Like this is this is like stuff like this has 728 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: been fantasized about for a long time. Well I'm thinking 729 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: about like there's this alright, I'm liking on the name 730 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: of it, But this movement in Florida in Operation Rescue. No, No, 731 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, no, that that's the whole other thing. I'm 732 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,720 Speaker 1: thinking about the church group that C. J. Mhaney learned 733 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: accountability practices from UM. But basically there was this like 734 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,720 Speaker 1: whole theological movement at in the as like a subset 735 00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: of the Jesus movement that was like encouraging everybody to 736 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 1: basically be like syn cops to each other because it 737 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: was like for your own spiritual purification, and like everybody 738 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: was ratting out everybody to the pastor, and the pastor 739 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,280 Speaker 1: would be like, we have concerns about this pattern, simple 740 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,359 Speaker 1: pattern in your life, and you need to think about 741 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: your sin of pride because you are questioning me, you know, 742 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 1: stuff like that UM, And it got replicated in sovereign 743 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: Grace ministries and kind of spread a lot of places 744 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,760 Speaker 1: out from there. Yeah. So, and like the courtship world 745 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 1: and the purity culture world, like you know, you'd have 746 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: like if you violated modesty codes, writing each other out 747 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: was like rewarded. If you were like kissing your boyfriend 748 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: and not telling your parents, you would get read it 749 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: out and that would be rewarded. So like all of 750 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: these things like this is just like we're just involving 751 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: the police now to get money for it. We're now 752 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 1: just making it into an act. Yeah, we're now we're 753 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,879 Speaker 1: now just turning up the actual consequences of this leading 754 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: to like violence and acted by the state, which is 755 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of the wet dream of a lot of these 756 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: of a lot of these groups, is that being able 757 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: to like, you know, tie this type of evangelical Christianity 758 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: to this state. This is kind of their end that, 759 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that was that was the end goal of 760 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: Focus on the Family. That was an end goal of 761 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: a lot of these groups is to start you know, 762 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: this is just the whole Christian dominionist thing is getting 763 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: these types of things enforced by the state instead of 764 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: having to be enforced by like the church community. And yeah, 765 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the one thing I do want 766 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,479 Speaker 1: to mention is that there's a a great TikTok video 767 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 1: that came out a few days ago about the the 768 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: the reporting website where you can whistle blow abortion people. 769 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: There's this this video this person made about and they 770 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: got a script for iPhones. They can flood you. You 771 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: can flood the tip line with fake with fake information. Um, 772 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 1: So that is great. You should you could vice as 773 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,320 Speaker 1: an article about it. You can just look up TikTok 774 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: abortion was the blower, you can you can get all 775 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 1: the info on that. Can. I just add a whole 776 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: big footnote to this entire conversation, and that is that 777 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: this just like keep this in mind as you were 778 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:15,279 Speaker 1: thinking about this question and this issue. This is the 779 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,240 Speaker 1: preview for how trans writes were going to be handled, 780 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:25,399 Speaker 1: because bodily autonomy for abortion and remmal birth control is 781 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: the same situation as bodily autonomy to create your gender 782 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: through hormonal injections or whatever. Like, same story going to 783 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,280 Speaker 1: end here. No, their their goals to have this whole 784 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:44,720 Speaker 1: whistle blower bounty hunter thing be extended to anyone performing um, 785 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: anyone performing any type of reproductive character they're doing now, 786 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: but also any type of gender affirming treatment UM reporting 787 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,439 Speaker 1: actual like trans youth like oh like like you see 788 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,759 Speaker 1: this happening in in the in the church all the time. 789 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, someone getting reported for having you know, 790 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 1: not not performing there they're prescribed gender correctly. This gets 791 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,400 Speaker 1: talked about all the time, and this is gonna be 792 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,920 Speaker 1: the next step for them, um that you know, the 793 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 1: abortion thing is gonna is gonna spread to other states, absolutely, 794 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:15,840 Speaker 1: But the next thing they're gonna go for after his 795 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: trans rights, um, and go after this type thing. And 796 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: then they're gonna go after after like like um, gay 797 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: things in general. Um, And like this it doesn't stop here, 798 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 1: Like you're not safe just because you are not Yeah, 799 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: just because you weren't born with uterus doesn't mean you're 800 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: not safe from this. Like it's gonna this is gonna 801 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: extend out to many other facets. Yeah, and I think 802 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, and and the real danger here, and I 803 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: think this is one of the things we need to 804 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,240 Speaker 1: talk about is that like the left, particularly democratic parties 805 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: organizing this has been terrible. This does not exist, yeah, yeah, 806 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,240 Speaker 1: you know for their party, like this is like abortion 807 00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: is just a fundraising thing, like they don't care that, 808 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: don't dre' do noathing and you know, and then the 809 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: broader left is being just absolutely blown out of the 810 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,960 Speaker 1: water by by the way, like by the organizations happened here, 811 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 1: and like even even in terms of like you know, 812 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: I mean just yeah, I definitely want everyone else here 813 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 1: to talk more about this because I have less way 814 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: less knowledge about this, Like you know, like these guys 815 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 1: did like terrorism like they were. They've they've murdered people, 816 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 1: they bombed clinics like they like that. They did the 817 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 1: whole range of sort of like every everything from sort 818 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,319 Speaker 1: electoralism to like what they're sort of twisted version of 819 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,919 Speaker 1: profigative politics where you know, you you create your own 820 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,759 Speaker 1: sort of like right wing like Evnel the households right. 821 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 1: They're like a mote of the news side. They did 822 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: everything they did. Electoralism they did, yeah, um like they 823 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,919 Speaker 1: they did, the demonstrations they did, they know, they killed 824 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,279 Speaker 1: people like they did everything. It worked, and we have 825 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: not been doing this and this is that's a big 826 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: part of why this is happening now. So I wrote 827 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: about this for Rewired News and I guess it should 828 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: be coming out to usday. But um yeah, it's basically 829 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,640 Speaker 1: like the last left, as soon as they achieve a 830 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:06,960 Speaker 1: small victory stops organizing, and the right is always thinking 831 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,759 Speaker 1: if further ahead, and they are they already have the 832 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,800 Speaker 1: infrastructure for that, like grassroots act like activate the network 833 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: to get them to call the offices. I'm like, be like, 834 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: don't vote on that bill or vote this way on 835 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: that bill, and we really just don't have that infrastructure 836 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,879 Speaker 1: in place. We've done it for one off situations, but 837 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: we don't have it as a habitual, regular, regular, daily practice, 838 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: and we are not training our teams to be involved 839 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,359 Speaker 1: in that like they are. UM, and that there's just 840 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: so much I could say about this. Yeah, I mean 841 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 1: I can. I can kind of speak to this as 842 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,359 Speaker 1: someone who like is kind of up close in the 843 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: California Democratic Party, at least as up close as you 844 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: can be without being friends with the fucking chair. UM. 845 00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: I am still livid because what I learned they're being 846 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 1: elected is that there is no organizing structure at all. 847 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,280 Speaker 1: Like I went to California campus Camp in twenty nineteen. 848 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: And if you're in California and you go to a 849 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,239 Speaker 1: community college and you haven't grown up being an organizer, 850 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: I definitely recommended, Yeah, if you didn't do Teampact, go 851 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:26,800 Speaker 1: to campus camp. But I was there, and they're talking 852 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: about how Paul Wellstone was this leftist organizer in like 853 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, the eighties, um, and how he invented 854 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:43,399 Speaker 1: this radical way of organizing. It's literally grassroots organizing. It's 855 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 1: literally what I've been doing since I was a child. 856 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,839 Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, this is this cool new thing 857 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,880 Speaker 1: that we're trying to do. This is really effectively he 858 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,880 Speaker 1: had no ship. That's how the Republicans win everything. We 859 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,319 Speaker 1: don't have that. There is no organization in the Democratic 860 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 1: Party that is ongoing round advocating for the issues we 861 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: say we value. There is no connection between the State 862 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,239 Speaker 1: Democratic Party and the Democratic National Convention or like the 863 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: National Democratic Party. The d n C literally only exists 864 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,279 Speaker 1: for the Convention to do the fucking platform and there 865 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: was nothing else. There's no except for in queer circles 866 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,799 Speaker 1: organizing gets this, gets this right, but as soon as 867 00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: you get to like middle class white democratic moderate organizing, 868 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't exist. You know, I am, I'm literally only 869 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:42,439 Speaker 1: talking about the Democratic Party itself, like Camocratic Democratic Party, 870 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 1: the institution. Queer organizers have been doing this, like a 871 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,880 Speaker 1: lot of grassroots leftist organizations have been doing this, labor organized, 872 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 1: labor organizers like there are so many organizations in Oakland 873 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,240 Speaker 1: alone that do this very well, like the Anti Police 874 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: Terror Project. They're fucking badass. They get ship done. Um. 875 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:07,320 Speaker 1: But the Democratic Party itself as an institution does not 876 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:12,200 Speaker 1: have this, does not support this actively like sidelines. The 877 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,360 Speaker 1: organizers like there is a whole progressive wing of the 878 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 1: Democratic Party that has recently gotten elected, and we are 879 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: sidelined and not allowed to do ship because there is 880 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,440 Speaker 1: just like we get blocked at every time. I think. 881 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,240 Speaker 1: I think, I think part of the problem is because 882 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:39,240 Speaker 1: of the rights connection to apocalyptic um predictions via the equstianity. 883 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,200 Speaker 1: Like the right has the right and even like the 884 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: conservative establishment, they have a goal in mind, like they 885 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: have an end goal of how they want to see 886 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,840 Speaker 1: the world. The Democrats don't have that. Even large swass 887 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: of the left don't have that. We can just we 888 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,359 Speaker 1: just want the role to be kind of a little 889 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 1: bit better slowly. The right has an actual view like 890 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 1: they they have like an end point, which is why 891 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: they always have the next thing planned that They're never 892 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,400 Speaker 1: satisfied with any of their victories. They're always onto the 893 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,840 Speaker 1: next thing because they have a set goal that they 894 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,040 Speaker 1: want to see the world become. So you're saying the 895 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 1: Democratic Party needs to get in they retreat and do 896 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:19,800 Speaker 1: a vision board. That's not what I'm saying. Honestly, it 897 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,759 Speaker 1: will help, I think, you know what. I think The 898 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: other sort of fundamental side, fundamental dynamic of this is 899 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: that the Republican Party is a real political party, right like, 900 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:30,719 Speaker 1: it has, it has a base, it has, it has 901 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 1: the thing they're trying to do, and like you know, 902 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 1: it has it has a set of goals that that 903 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,360 Speaker 1: is trying to enact. The Democratic Party is not is 904 00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: not a political party. The Democratic Party is basically a 905 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,719 Speaker 1: giant engine for absorbed. So you know, the right is 906 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,439 Speaker 1: powered by a combination of an enormous amount of money 907 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: by the sort of capitalist backers, and you get all 908 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,040 Speaker 1: this AstroTurf stuff from the Cokes and from the sort 909 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,560 Speaker 1: of the Boultons and their their networks, and then you 910 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,040 Speaker 1: know that they have they have a sort of right 911 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,440 Speaker 1: wing social movement base, which is a lot of the 912 00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,160 Speaker 1: evangelical stuff, and you know, and that that that's what 913 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,600 Speaker 1: drives the party, right like, that's that's that's that's that's 914 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,640 Speaker 1: like the party is there to enact, you know, the 915 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: different facts of different visions that parties there to their visions. Right, 916 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,800 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party is there too, the party like there's 917 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,440 Speaker 1: you have the equivalence of the sort of left wing 918 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: social movements, and the Democratic Party is there to destroy them. 919 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,480 Speaker 1: Like their their whole goal is to make sure that 920 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: none of these movements ever actually like come anywhere close 921 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,160 Speaker 1: to taking power, and so you know, and and this 922 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,360 Speaker 1: this creates is symmetry. But we're seeing this on abortion 923 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,759 Speaker 1: right where you know, you have you have the Publican Party, 924 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 1: which is you know, fanatically dedicated to to to this 925 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,839 Speaker 1: issue to winning here, and you have the Democratic Party 926 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,320 Speaker 1: who's like there their their their job is to turn 927 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:51,440 Speaker 1: like people people's concern over abortion into inaction and fundraising. 928 00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,759 Speaker 1: And then that fundraising doesn't go doesn't fundraison, doesn't go 929 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,719 Speaker 1: to you know, keeping abortion legal, Like the fundraising goes 930 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,760 Speaker 1: to just getting getting getting getting the keep keeping Democratic 931 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: Party people in power, keeping their consultants paid, and keeping 932 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,799 Speaker 1: their sort of like you know, keeping keeping their sort 933 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:13,439 Speaker 1: of keeping Yeah, it's keeping their corporate their corporate backers happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 934 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: that's exactly what it is. It just it exists to 935 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,960 Speaker 1: fondres for elections for people with the D beside their name, 936 00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,799 Speaker 1: who don't challenge things, you don't actually want to get 937 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,239 Speaker 1: ship done, and to just like like as soon as 938 00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,399 Speaker 1: they get power, they sit back and are like oh cool, 939 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,520 Speaker 1: we want and and then they're like we're we're fine, 940 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,759 Speaker 1: now we don't have to do anything like they don't 941 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:40,239 Speaker 1: exist to enact their platform. The most that we can 942 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: do as delegates is like pass resolutions and amend the platform, 943 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,399 Speaker 1: so we can, like pass the resolution that says, let's 944 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,360 Speaker 1: not take any fossil fuel money. This actually happened. We 945 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: passed the resolution said let's not take any fossil fuel money. 946 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,080 Speaker 1: The Democratic Party chairs still accept fossil fuel money. Brought 947 00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,800 Speaker 1: it up at the e Or convention, like literally last weekend. 948 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,239 Speaker 1: It was shot down and said it was out of order, 949 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,320 Speaker 1: despite the fact that we were just trying to enforce 950 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,920 Speaker 1: our own rules that we put upon ourselves. And the 951 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,920 Speaker 1: Democratic Party is accountable to no one, no one but itself, 952 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,959 Speaker 1: And so the people who are inside the Democratic Party 953 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,200 Speaker 1: of problems with the Democratic Party can ask questions and 954 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,920 Speaker 1: we get zero response. Like all I know is that 955 00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,040 Speaker 1: we give money to strategists who no one will tell 956 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,560 Speaker 1: me who they are, no one knows who they are, 957 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,440 Speaker 1: and just fundraise into this big pot for democratic elections 958 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: for the people who the chair and his friends like. 959 00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,880 Speaker 1: And the entire by laws of the Democratic Party are 960 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:45,920 Speaker 1: written to give like and outrageous amount of power to 961 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,440 Speaker 1: the people who are already elected, like Nancy Pelosi has 962 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:58,880 Speaker 1: like thirty plus votes in the Democratic Party. I have one, 963 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: I wrote I I will send you the link to 964 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,360 Speaker 1: the power breakdown that I wrote about this because I 965 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,000 Speaker 1: was so mad about it during the convention. But like 966 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,920 Speaker 1: it really, the Democratic Party is not going to save us. 967 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,680 Speaker 1: It's not going to save anyone. What we need to 968 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: do is be building dual power structures like the Black 969 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,800 Speaker 1: Panthers did. But that is a lot of fucking work 970 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,600 Speaker 1: and we don't have the funding for it. Yeah, we 971 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,160 Speaker 1: we have. We have to wrap this up sooner than later. 972 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,920 Speaker 1: But like and I try to end these episodes with 973 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: some type of like if not, if not, like a 974 00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: call to action, but like something to help figure out 975 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,600 Speaker 1: what the heck to do in the future, Like something 976 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,680 Speaker 1: that we can think about in a new way or 977 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,120 Speaker 1: try to try to try to ponder or achieve. And 978 00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,720 Speaker 1: this this is tough because it's hard. It's well, like, 979 00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,919 Speaker 1: how like wrapping up all of these types of things around, 980 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,720 Speaker 1: like abortion and the rise of the end of of 981 00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 1: the of the religious right, what can regular people do? 982 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,320 Speaker 1: There are groups doing this work already. Do not try 983 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,479 Speaker 1: to reinvent the We all get involved with your local 984 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,320 Speaker 1: mutual a groups get involved with your local abortion funds, 985 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:08,200 Speaker 1: get involved with your local organizing groups. They exist, they're 986 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,640 Speaker 1: doing the work. Figure out what is going on where 987 00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,240 Speaker 1: you live and look at it on a local level 988 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 1: and get involved and show up to meetings, figure out 989 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,240 Speaker 1: who's running for city council, figuring out where the budget 990 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,520 Speaker 1: is going like, ask questions, attend the meetings, pay attention, 991 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:28,640 Speaker 1: like show up to public hearings and hold their feet 992 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,040 Speaker 1: to the fire. Do the local work and the rest 993 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,920 Speaker 1: will follow. It is surprisingly easy to take over local politics, 994 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,520 Speaker 1: like literally, all you have to do is show up. 995 00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 1: It's it's it's simple. You get coffee with your city counselor. 996 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,360 Speaker 1: That's what their job is is to meet with you. 997 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: So do you have yours? You are their boss, and 998 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,680 Speaker 1: you can even do that with your state representative, your 999 00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,240 Speaker 1: state senator. They are there to talk to you and 1000 00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,040 Speaker 1: if you have a feeling about a thing, email them, 1001 00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,640 Speaker 1: call them, be like hey, I want get coffee like that. 1002 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Some students in college don't use office hours like they should, 1003 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,240 Speaker 1: and so they fail the course. This is us. We 1004 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,240 Speaker 1: have these elected officials and we are at their boss. 1005 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,040 Speaker 1: We need to show up to office hours and ask 1006 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,560 Speaker 1: them questions. Like, that's what that's what the right is doing. 1007 01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,720 Speaker 1: That's why they're so successful. We need to be organizing 1008 01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 1: our own, our own calling about things. If people want 1009 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,360 Speaker 1: to hear more about your, your guys's work and all 1010 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,480 Speaker 1: of these really fun topics, where can where can they 1011 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,320 Speaker 1: find you? Online? They can they can find our podcast, 1012 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Kitchen Table Cult at Kitchen Table cult dot com. We're 1013 01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Kitchen Cult Pod. My handle is blue 1014 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,840 Speaker 1: pup Boy but with an eye instead of a Y 1015 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 1: at the end. And I'm eve Ettinger on Twitter and 1016 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm verified Verified, I'm real good job and the only one. 1017 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, and we're we're working in a couple 1018 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:06,480 Speaker 1: of big projects. Um, stay tuned, funds down ahead. Thank 1019 01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on to talk about 1020 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,040 Speaker 1: the religious right, abortion and all these kind of interconnected issues, 1021 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,920 Speaker 1: because they really are interconnected. Um, and yeah, we need 1022 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,640 Speaker 1: to We can definitely learn how to organize a whole 1023 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,600 Speaker 1: lot better and learn learn from how the right has 1024 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:27,400 Speaker 1: been so successful in a lot of ways. Um. Yeah, anyway, 1025 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,680 Speaker 1: uh for more, it could happen here. You can follow 1026 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,160 Speaker 1: us um on Twitter and Instagram, it happened here pod 1027 01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,720 Speaker 1: and cool Zone Media can follow me on Twitter at 1028 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,520 Speaker 1: Hungry bow Tie and uh, Chris, I know you. You 1029 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,400 Speaker 1: you have a Twitter. Yeah, I'm I'm in h R 1030 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,560 Speaker 1: three on Twitter or the ice on speed Destroyed guy. 1031 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, cool Zone also as a Twitter that's at 1032 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media and great, see you see everyone again. Well, 1033 01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,000 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about these issues in the next in 1034 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,120 Speaker 1: the next few days and weeks. That's all for today. Goodbye. 1035 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,240 Speaker 1: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 1036 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 1037 01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,280 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com or check us out on 1038 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,880 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1039 01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,720 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 1040 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com 1041 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:22,640 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.