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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you think we could do physics without

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Speaker 1: the Internet.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean there was a lot of physics done

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Speaker 2: before the internet. So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the Internet distracts you or helps you?

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it distracts me, but also lets me look

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Speaker 2: stuff up.

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Speaker 1: When you can do physics by just looking stuff up.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you got to know the mass of the electron

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Speaker 2: and who remembers that stuff? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: Don't you think maybe like Newton would have done a

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Speaker 1: better job if he had the Internet available at the time,

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Speaker 1: or would have been just stug watching cat videos.

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Speaker 2: I think watching cats fall out of trees might have

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Speaker 2: inspired his ideas in gravity even earlier.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, like he had the original cat video. But

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you would be more popular if we

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Speaker 1: had more cat episodes.

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Speaker 2: I'll drop one cat per episode, I promise, Yes, we

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Speaker 2: need new categories.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm morehem and cartoonist and the author of Oliver's

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Speaker 1: Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, professor at UC Irvine,

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Speaker 2: and I really wish I had cats.

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Speaker 1: You wish you had cats?

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 1: Why did you just get some cats?

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Speaker 2: I have kids and they are allergic to cats. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: I used to have cats before I had kids. That's

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Speaker 2: easily remedied, Daniel, I'm terrified. Just depends how much you

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Speaker 2: want the cats. You know, well, the kids also want cats,

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Speaker 2: so they're actually taking algae shots in hopes that we

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Speaker 2: can one day have a cat.

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Speaker 1: Uh like those treatments where you get exposed a little

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Speaker 1: bit at a time. M exactly like one cat air

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Speaker 1: at a time.

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Speaker 2: M hmm, just like this podcast is exposing everybody to

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Speaker 2: physics a little bit at a time, inoculating them against

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Speaker 2: the disease.

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Speaker 1: So if you go too strong on this podcast, get

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Speaker 1: the hives.

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Speaker 2: You could get a reaction, but choke, I've seen that reaction.

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Speaker 2: Not pretty.

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Speaker 1: No, yeah, it just makes you sleepy.

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Speaker 2: I guess their mental immune system rises up in defense.

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Speaker 1: It just makes people pass out. We go too deep

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Speaker 1: into particle physics, it acts like Benadrul and just knocks

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Speaker 1: people out. But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and

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Speaker 1: Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: In which we go as deep as we can into

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Speaker 2: particle physics and cosmology and astrophysics and astronomy and all

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Speaker 2: the different kinds of physics that help explain this amazing, beautiful,

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Speaker 2: bonkers universe that we live in. We think it all

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Speaker 2: makes sense, and we want it all to make sense

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Speaker 2: to you.

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Speaker 1: That's why we try to be the hives of curiosity

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Speaker 1: and try to inoculate you against the mysteries of the

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Speaker 1: universe by talking about all of the things that we

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Speaker 1: know and maybe don't know about.

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Speaker 2: The cosmos and physics has always relied on conversation, people

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Speaker 2: talking about how things work, people brainstorming together, people writing

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Speaker 2: elaborate letters to each other about what or it's what

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Speaker 2: in the solar system. Communication has always been an inherent

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Speaker 2: part of physics, and physics has always enabled communication.

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Speaker 1: I guess also, it's not just physics. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: this mix of individual thought and pondering, but also this

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Speaker 1: mix of talking to your peers and sharing your ideas

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Speaker 1: and where you're at.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, exactly. Brainstorming is such an essential part of it.

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Speaker 2: I can't count the number of times I've had a

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Speaker 2: bad idea, suggested it to somebody and it's inspired a

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Speaker 2: better idea in them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I guess we all need that person to like check

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Speaker 1: our ideas, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we all need that person have a good idea

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Speaker 2: in response to our dumb idea.

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Speaker 1: That's why I see and then becomes your idea.

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Speaker 2: Then becomes our idea.

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Speaker 1: Did you just reveal your whole plot here for how

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Speaker 1: to exploit graduate students and steal the ideas?

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Speaker 2: Collaborating with graduate students is not a well kept secret.

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Speaker 1: I see you call it collaborating.

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Speaker 2: Got its collaborative.

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Speaker 1: That's a safe word.

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Speaker 2: They get to be first Author's true.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, as you said, it's all about communication, and

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Speaker 1: it seems like communication just for the entire human race

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Speaker 1: has sort of accelerated at lightning speed with the advent

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Speaker 1: of the Internet.

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Speaker 2: Exactly because communication facilitates physics, but also physics discoveries help

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Speaker 2: us find new ways to communicate even faster. More cat

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Speaker 2: videos all day long.

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Speaker 1: I guess even in the old days, like if you

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Speaker 1: sent a letter across the Atlantic, you relied on physics

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Speaker 1: to you know, keep the wagon rolling down to the coast,

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Speaker 1: and then you need physics to keep the boats afloat

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Speaker 1: right as it crosses and takes your letter across the Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't you just say everything is physics, like my cereal

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Speaker 1: is physics. It's also chemistry, maybe math.

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Speaker 2: That's right, but physics is also the reason why we're

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Speaker 2: not using wagons in boats anymore. You know, development of

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Speaker 2: electronics meant we could send telegraphs to each other. Cathode

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Speaker 2: raid tubes meant we can invent screens to look at stuff.

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Speaker 2: Radio waves allowed for wireless communication around the planet. Physics

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Speaker 2: has helped change how we communicate.

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Speaker 1: Or I think you just said it. Electronics help change everything,

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Speaker 1: and for that we are thankful to electronic engineers.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps absolutely the Internet relies on engineers, but the principles

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Speaker 2: of physics are what created these new opportunities.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess I wonder if that's debatable, or maybe

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Speaker 1: it depends on a case by case bases. Like sometimes

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Speaker 1: we like engineers or anyone, discovers an effect and they

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Speaker 1: figure how to use it, and then they discover what's

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Speaker 1: going on behind it. Right, you need to give you an example, No,

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Speaker 1: I can't give you an example.

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Speaker 2: Very persuasive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if I ask you for an example, yeah, sure.

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Speaker 2: Well you know, cathode rays we're definitely discovered not by physicists,

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Speaker 2: but then understood by physicists, and then the application of

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Speaker 2: them to developing screens relied on that physics understanding. So

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Speaker 2: cathoid ray tubes, for example, were in sideshows and demonstrations

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Speaker 2: and even like circuses well before JG. Thompson understood that

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Speaker 2: they were electrons.

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Speaker 1: Mmm, so it sort of starts with non physicists, then

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Speaker 1: physicists jump in, we understand it a little bit better,

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Speaker 1: and then we understand it a little bit better enough

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Speaker 1: to use it for things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Or you know, the foundation of modern computing

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Speaker 2: our transistors, and without quantum mechanics, we definitely wouldn't understand

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Speaker 2: all the energy levels and the electron flows and be

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Speaker 2: able to build such miniaturize little switches that definitely run

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Speaker 2: the Internet. So physics is essential there as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it seems like there's physics in our everyday

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Speaker 1: lives and in our everyday surfing of the web as well.

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Speaker 1: So to the O, the proium will be taging the

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Speaker 1: question what physics is behind the Internet? Wait, there's something

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Speaker 1: behind the Internet. There's a secret cabal, there's death through

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Speaker 1: the Internet.

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Speaker 2: You can only see the surface layer, but us physicists

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Speaker 2: have access to the next dimension of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: WHOA, you make it sound like it's the matrix neo,

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Speaker 1: Is that what this is all about?

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Speaker 2: Yes? This is a secret council of physicists that run

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Speaker 2: the Internet and decide what you see every day.

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Speaker 1: Totally all right, So it seems like that we're going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about some of the physics effects or

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Speaker 1: principles then power the Internet or that make the Internet possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what physics do you have to know if

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Speaker 2: your civilization and you want to build an Internet?

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Speaker 1: Well, as usually, we were wondering how many people out

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Speaker 1: there had thought about this question.

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Speaker 2: Thanks everybody who volunteers, and if you would like to

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Speaker 2: join this group, please don't be shy. Write to me

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Speaker 2: two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. We really

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Speaker 2: do want to hear your voice.

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Speaker 1: So think about it for a second. How many physics

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Speaker 1: principles can you name in the use of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Here's what people have to say.

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Speaker 4: Particle or nuclear physics as World Wide Web was designed

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Speaker 4: for and within SIR at the time. Other than that, well,

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Speaker 4: forty all radio communications to satellze through Wi Fi, all

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Speaker 4: electromagnetics them and for the five cables, all the photone

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Speaker 4: and the crystal stuff, and then the routers and everything.

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Speaker 4: Just all electromagnetism. But there are a lot of solid

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Speaker 4: state physics too, with the storage running the Internet and

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Speaker 4: so on so on.

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Speaker 2: So I think this is all about electrons moving around

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Speaker 2: back and forth to communicate and create ones and zero

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Speaker 2: so that we can transmit information.

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Speaker 5: When I think about the physics behind the Internet, I

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Speaker 5: think of, first off, the power requirements to run all

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Speaker 5: of the data centers and servers and our computers and

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Speaker 5: our desks, And then you think about the infrastructure that

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Speaker 5: supports it, from undersea cables to data cables and fiber

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Speaker 5: optic lines and all of the infrastructure built just to

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Speaker 5: transmit information.

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Speaker 2: Is that physics, Well, physics went into building or designing it.

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Speaker 2: But that's the first thing I think of.

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Speaker 3: There's got to be a whole lot because there's so

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Speaker 3: many elements of the Internet. From the actual signals that

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Speaker 3: we pass, whate that'd be electric or optical or radio

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Speaker 3: or microwave. The actual devices that process backets have micro

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Speaker 3: controllers and storage devices, and I think they need to

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Speaker 3: worry about quantum effects on dot scale. And then we

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Speaker 3: have satellites in orbit that probably need to do corrections

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Speaker 3: for general relativity. So a whole lot of physics.

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Speaker 1: All right, A lot of interesting answers here I feel

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Speaker 1: like at some point that isn't physics behind everything, and

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Speaker 1: isn't mad behind all the physics, etcetera, etcetera. Like you

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Speaker 1: could say, what are the physics behind cereals or herbology.

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Speaker 2: In principle, you might be able to tear the universe

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Speaker 2: apart down to its tiniest little bits, understand those rules,

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Speaker 2: and put it back together to make sense of everything.

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Speaker 2: But in practice that's not the way we do science.

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Speaker 2: To do science at various different layers where things emerge

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Speaker 2: and we discover the rules that guide them. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we have like fluid mechanics, and we have chemistry, and

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Speaker 2: we have economics, and we could in principle say why

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Speaker 2: people buy sneakers is physics, but really it's a different

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Speaker 2: kind of science, government by different kinds of rules. So

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's fair to say everything is physics.

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Speaker 1: Well, these days it seems like the Internet is everything,

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Speaker 1: and say we're going to be talking about some of

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Speaker 1: the technologies behind the Internet and what physics there is

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Speaker 1: behind those technologies exactly.

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Speaker 2: And there are lots of bits of the Internet that

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Speaker 2: really do rely on physics, where understanding of how things

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Speaker 2: work at the smallest scale or revolutions in that understanding

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Speaker 2: have allowed us to do all the great awesome stuff

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Speaker 2: we do online.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's start maybe at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the internet. The Internet, you need computers for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. The Internet is a big connected set

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Speaker 2: of computers. And you're absolutely right. Unique computers in order

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Speaker 2: to have an Internet, and computers actually come out of

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Speaker 2: mechanical engineering, you know, like Ada Lovelass and Charles Babbage

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Speaker 2: back before we had electronics. All modern computers, of course,

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Speaker 2: are digital and electrical, and so you have to understand

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Speaker 2: something about electricity in order to build a modern computer.

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Speaker 1: Well, this kind of raises an interesting question, like what

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Speaker 1: exactly do you call the Internet? Like we all use

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Speaker 1: the word, we all use the internet, but like if

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Speaker 1: you had to define what the Internet is, what would

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Speaker 1: you say it is?

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Speaker 2: I would say the Internet is a bunch of computers

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Speaker 2: all connected on a network with a very specific protocol.

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Speaker 2: The way we send messages back and forth is a

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Speaker 2: very specific algorithm for how to get information from one

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Speaker 2: side of the world to another. So that's what I

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Speaker 2: would call the Internet. You can have other kinds of networks,

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Speaker 2: but this is one specific way to connect everything.

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Speaker 1: It's like the infrastructure that enables you to just plug

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Speaker 1: your computer into the wall so they can talk to

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Speaker 1: other computers. But it's also sort of like the Like

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Speaker 1: you said, the protocol is the software and the standards

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Speaker 1: that everyone agrees to. Like if I want to send

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Speaker 1: a message to someone in Russia, you have to go

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Speaker 1: use certain protocols about how do you call that address?

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Speaker 1: In what format you send stuff? Right, how those computers

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Speaker 1: shake hands and communicate with each other exactly.

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Speaker 2: You basically have to agree to participate in this huge

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Speaker 2: thing called the Internet. And when you plug into the Internet,

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Speaker 2: it's not like mail. It's not like you only get

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Speaker 2: stuff that was sent for you. You get a bunch of

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Speaker 2: stuff sent for other people and you agree to pass

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Speaker 2: it along towards them. So the Internet has this really

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Speaker 2: complex packet switching model for getting data from one side

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Speaker 2: of the world to the other, and everybody that connects

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Speaker 2: to it participates in it. So that's what the Internet is,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of computers connected, of course, but then also

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Speaker 2: the way that everybody agrees to participate.

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Speaker 1: There could be multiple internets for example, right just like

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Speaker 1: for example, there is the US Postal Service, and there's

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Speaker 1: also ups. There's also FedEx. There are like different networks

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Speaker 1: of things that let you move things around that The

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Speaker 1: Internet is one of those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Internet is one of those things. And back

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Speaker 2: in the day, there used to be multiple different networks,

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Speaker 2: you know, there were these building board services, there were

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Speaker 2: other little local networks. The Internet is really the growth

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Speaker 2: of the global network that ties them all together into

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Speaker 2: one meta network.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just said it requires computers and wires, and

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Speaker 1: some of that requires physics to understand what's going on

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Speaker 1: and also just to kind of squeeze as much data

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Speaker 1: out of these wires and connections as much as possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and at their heart, computers these days are built

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Speaker 2: out of electrical wires and switches. So you have electrical

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Speaker 2: currents are sending information down the wires, and then you

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Speaker 2: have things like transistors that are flipping bits, turning things

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Speaker 2: on and off, making decisions, changing that dynamically. So you

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Speaker 2: don't just have like a fixed circuit that does the

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Speaker 2: same thing every time. You have a programmable circuit. They

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Speaker 2: can also adjust itself and change its own behavior. That's

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Speaker 2: what makes a computer so powerful is that it can

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Speaker 2: do any kind of calculation, not just one fixed kind

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Speaker 2: of calculation. It's like the difference between a piano and

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Speaker 2: a CD of somebody playing one song on the p

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Speaker 2: and o piano lets you play anything, the recording only

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Speaker 2: plays the one song.

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Speaker 1: So where would you say, is a physics in those

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Speaker 1: wires or like, how has physics helped us transmit information faster?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so understanding electricity has helped us transmit information at

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Speaker 2: the speed of light all the way back to the telegraph,

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Speaker 2: which is definitely not part of the modern Internet, but

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Speaker 2: it's sort of part of the origins of it. That

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Speaker 2: was really a revolution understanding how you could send electrical

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Speaker 2: pulses down wires to wiggle something at the other end

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Speaker 2: using electromagnetism where you're turning magnets on and off to

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Speaker 2: shape this telegraph receiver. This allows us to transmit information

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Speaker 2: at what was effectively instantaneous speeds compared to you know,

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Speaker 2: letters and ponies and carrier pigeons and whatever else they

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Speaker 2: had just before the telegraph. So that really shrunk the

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Speaker 2: whole world. And it's the same principle that operates inside

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Speaker 2: your computer right now to transmit information around the computer

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Speaker 2: and then along the network and then along the cables

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Speaker 2: between the computers, so that understanding of electricity really changed

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Speaker 2: how rapidly we could communicate over long distances.

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Speaker 1: And I think these days it gets even more physics ly,

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Speaker 1: like basically the wires between here and Europe, they're not

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Speaker 1: electrical at this age, right, I think it's either optical

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Speaker 1: fibers or through satellites, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Optical fibers are a great way to send information,

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Speaker 2: and for that you don't need to understand electricity. But

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Speaker 2: you do have to understand light, which is of course

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Speaker 2: related to electricity, and you have to understand optics and

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Speaker 2: how to make long tubes of glass and all sorts

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Speaker 2: of stuff. The crucial physics concept of fiber optics is

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Speaker 2: called total internal reflection. But it's not that hard to understand.

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Speaker 2: When light hits a surface like air to glass or

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Speaker 2: air to water or whatever, the way it wiggles on.

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Speaker 2: The two substances on either side of that surface is

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Speaker 2: different because they're different substances. But at the surface in

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Speaker 2: between them, the interface, the electromagnetic field has to line

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Speaker 2: up and make both sides happy. That's why, for example,

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Speaker 2: light bends at an interface. It's the only way to

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Speaker 2: get both sides of the field on both sides of

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Speaker 2: the surface where the wavelengths are different. To line up nicely,

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Speaker 2: the light has to have a different angle on one

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Speaker 2: side of the surface than the other. But if the

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Speaker 2: angle on one side is just right and you pick

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Speaker 2: the materials carefully, then there's actually no way to get

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Speaker 2: the light waves to line up on both sides the

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Speaker 2: wavelength and the coding on a fiber optic cable is

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Speaker 2: too long to get any matches at that boundary. And

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Speaker 2: so because there's no way to have light in the coding,

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Speaker 2: you get total internal reflection because the light goes down

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Speaker 2: the fiber and none of it escapes. So that's some

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Speaker 2: crucial bit of physics for making fiber optics work, which

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Speaker 2: is an essential part of the Internet. And then satellite

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Speaker 2: networks of course rely on wireless technology, so there's physics

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Speaker 2: all over those networks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how you transmit information. But also there's physics

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Speaker 1: in how you actually make computations, right, And like computers

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Speaker 1: are based on transistors and transistors they have their origin

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Speaker 1: in mechanical thinking and logical machines, but nowadays it's all

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Speaker 1: like semiconductors, right, and super super tight almost quantum size devices.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the origin of them are pretty simple. They're just

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Speaker 2: like a mechanical switch. You want to turn something on,

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Speaker 2: you want to turn something off, You want to set

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Speaker 2: a value in the computer memory, or you want to

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Speaker 2: change how two things are connected to add numbers or

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Speaker 2: subtract numbers. And back in the day, you could build

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Speaker 2: these things using mechanical relays or other sorts of devices.

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Speaker 2: But these days, in order to have very fast computers

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Speaker 2: computers so they can do a lot of calculations, so

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Speaker 2: they can render that cat falling off the tree, or

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Speaker 2: they can support your latest video game or whatever, then

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Speaker 2: you got to miniaturize all those relays because a big

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Speaker 2: mechanical relay it takes time to switch because it's so big.

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Speaker 2: You know, you send the signal to complete the current

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Speaker 2: and the thing like slides over. You know, it takes milliseconds,

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Speaker 2: and that limits how fast you can do calculations. If

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Speaker 2: you need lots of those switches to flip, what you

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Speaker 2: want are small fast switches because the faster they switch,

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Speaker 2: the faster your computer is. And that's why you want

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Speaker 2: to shrink them down because then everything goes faster.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes I think the technology behind these computers of

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Speaker 1: suddenly changes like we went from vacuum tubes, which totally

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Speaker 1: different than how they work now, which is silicon.

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Speaker 2: Wafers exactly because we have new ideas for how to

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Speaker 2: support it. In the end, it's sort of philosophical, like

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Speaker 2: it's just representing information and how that information adjusts itself.

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Speaker 2: In principle, you could do that in lots of different media,

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Speaker 2: lots of different substrates could support computation. And we haven't

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Speaker 2: even gotten into you know, quantum computers, so they're not

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Speaker 2: really even part of the Internet yet. But silicon is

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Speaker 2: a really nice way to do it, but it requires

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Speaker 2: a bunch of techniques all coming together. One is like

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Speaker 2: how to actually build those transistors, and those transistors are

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Speaker 2: built on the principle of semiconductors, like understanding how electrons

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Speaker 2: flow through some materials and don't flow through other materials,

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Speaker 2: and how you can change that by applying voltages on them.

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Speaker 1: Back in the day, they had mechanical computers, right, like

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Speaker 1: you can use machines like leversanical machines to do these computations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and principle, you could build a computer out of anything,

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Speaker 2: you know, tubes of plasma in the sun or whatever,

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Speaker 2: as long as you can control it, you can develop

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Speaker 2: logic based on it. The semiconductors are a really nice

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Speaker 2: way to do it because we can miniaturize them because

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Speaker 2: we have the technology from making these very thin wafers

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Speaker 2: of silicon for printing the circuits onto them. And so

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Speaker 2: it's been decades we've been making these things smaller and

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Speaker 2: smaller and smaller. And the way that the transistors actually

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Speaker 2: work relies on a really subtle bit of physics, which

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Speaker 2: in the end is quantum mechanical. Like if we hadn't

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Speaker 2: discovered quantum mechanics, we would not be able to build

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Speaker 2: transistors out of semiconductors.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get into how quantum physics is maybe

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Speaker 1: changing computers and competitions, and then let's talk about some

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Speaker 1: of the other ways that physics figures into the Internet.

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Speaker 1: But first let's take out a quick break. All right,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the physics of cat videos. Now, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: is there a physical way to quantify the cuteness of

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Speaker 1: a kitten?

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Speaker 2: See, that's not physics at all, that's sociology or psychology.

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Speaker 2: There are sciences.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like you're cherry picking, Like if

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Speaker 1: you want to take credit for it, you call it physics.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want to take credit for it, you

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Speaker 1: call it something else. There's this very suspicious strategy you

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Speaker 1: got here.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, I would love to take credit for why

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Speaker 2: cats are cute. I would love to be able to

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Speaker 2: explain to you because the weak force works in this way.

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Speaker 2: Therefore your brain thinks cats are cute. But I can't

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Speaker 2: do that. There's no way I can connect particle physics

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Speaker 2: to cats are cute's brain chemistry.

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Speaker 1: There, I see, I see. Well, can you connect particle

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Speaker 1: physics to IP addresses?

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Speaker 2: No, but I can connect particle physics to the World

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Speaker 2: Wide Web. We'll get there eventually.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, all right, we'll get to that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But we were talking about quantum mechanics and how they

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Speaker 1: figure into the sort of super tiny transistors that are

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Speaker 1: made out of silicon. But looking a little bit into

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Speaker 1: the future, they might also just totally revolutionize computers with

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Speaker 1: the advent of quantum computers as well. Right in those cases,

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Speaker 1: you're not using silicon transistors, are you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Quantum computers can be based on lots of different technologies.

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Speaker 2: They're not fundamentally based on bits the way we think

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Speaker 2: about them. For normal computers, which are these little transistors

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Speaker 2: that can be in the state of zero or one,

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Speaker 2: but they're based on cube bits and a cubit is

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Speaker 2: kind of like a generalization of a classical bit, but

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Speaker 2: it's not necessarily in a state of zero or one.

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Speaker 2: It has probabilities to be in various states, So it's

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Speaker 2: a different kind of computation, like the way that we

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Speaker 2: think about logic and manipulating information. That's one kind of computation,

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Speaker 2: but there are other kinds of computation, ways to take

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Speaker 2: advantage of what the physical world is doing. To extract

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Speaker 2: an answer to.

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Speaker 1: Your question, but do you think all computers will eventually

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Speaker 1: be quantum computers or do you think quantum computers will

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Speaker 1: only be useful in certain applications.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing a quantum computer can do that a classical

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Speaker 2: computer cannot do. It's just a question of can they

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Speaker 2: do it more efficiently. And there are a few examples

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Speaker 2: where people think if you build a large error correct

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Speaker 2: and quantum computer, you can do those calculations faster on

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Speaker 2: quantum computers than normal computers. But they're really very narrow

443
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: and limited. So even though there's a huge amount of

444
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 2: hype about quantum computers. I haven't seen a whole lot

445
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 2: of persuasive arguments that quantum computers are anywhere in the

446
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 2: near future are going to revolutionize like what we call

447
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 2: computing and the kind of problems we can solve. But

448
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 2: of course it's naive to say we know everything quantum

449
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: computers could ever do. It's always exciting to have a

450
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 2: new kind of thing, a new kind of computer, and

451
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: the kinds of things people will do with them aren't

452
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 2: things we can imagine right now, so it's definitely valuable research.

453
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: I just think it's actually more exciting to not know

454
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: what they're going to be useful for. But right now

455
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: people feel the need to sell them with a specific

456
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: killer app, which I think is sometimes a bit overdone.

457
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: But in terms of making computer smaller and smaller, we

458
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: are sort of starting to get into the quantum realm, right,

459
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: Like some of these transistors now that you can fit

460
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: like billions, bazillions of transistors into a tiny microtschip, Like,

461
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: the size of these transistors are now getting to the

462
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: point where you do kind of have to start thinking

463
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: about the quantum mechanics of it, right, You.

464
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: Have to think about the quantum mechanics of it no

465
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 2: matter the size of your transistor. Like there's quantum mechanics

466
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 2: and the basic principles of a transistor, and it all

467
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 2: comes from the quantum mechanical understanding of how an atom works.

468
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: In an individual atom, we know electrons have energy levels.

469
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: Like the classical picture is you have a proton the

470
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: nucleus of a hydrogen atom, for example, and electrons exist

471
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 2: in various states around it. But the electron has to

472
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 2: be in one of these states. It's like specific energy

473
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: levels that solve all the equations of quantum mechanics. The

474
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 2: electron can just have an arbitrary energy. It's like a

475
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: ladder there. So that's a single atom. It's sort of

476
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: a simple picture. As you bring a bunch of atoms

477
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: together to make like a blob of stuff, you know,

478
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 2: like silicon or geranium or something else, energy levels get

479
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 2: a little fuzzier because now your electrons are interacting with

480
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: more than one nucleus. So instead of having the same

481
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: crisp energy levels from a single atom, now you have

482
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: these bands of energy levels the electrons can live in,

483
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 2: like more energy levels with finer steps between them, but

484
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 2: then also groups of them like lower energy levels, and

485
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: then a band of higher energy levels. Those bands of

486
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 2: energy levels, rather than just some simple tomic spacing, is

487
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 2: the physics behind why some materials are conductors and some

488
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: are insulators. The lower bands are usually full, so electrons

489
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 2: can't move like if you're packed into a totally full elevator.

490
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: To move as an electron, you have to jump into

491
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 2: an empty upper band. So insulators tend to have a

492
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: big gap between the bands, so electrons are mostly stuck

493
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: in the lower bands and can't move around in the

494
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 2: empty bands above. Conductors have a small gap, so it's

495
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: easy for the electrons to jump up and move freely.

496
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: Semiconductors have an intermediate gap that can be tweaked and

497
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: tuned by adding various materials to the silicon, so that

498
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 2: lets you do clever material engineering to make things like

499
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: one way path for electrons from one sized gap to another.

500
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: That's what a diode is. You can put the diodes

501
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 2: together and the materials together in more complex ways, and

502
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 2: you get like a transistor, which is basically a quantum

503
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: mechanical switch, and that's the basis of all modern computing

504
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 2: right right.

505
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: But I wonder if that's more in a classical physics side.

506
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you need quantum mechanics to understand

507
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: in that, but like you don't need to know the

508
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: Heisenberg uncertainty principle to make a vacuum tube work.

509
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: For example, you don't need to know the Heisenberg and

510
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: certain principle to make a vacuum tube work. That's true.

511
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: You can build switches without quantum mechanics, but if you

512
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: want to build them out of transistors, which is crucial

513
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: for making them really really small, then you got to

514
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: know the quantum mechanics. You got to understand how to

515
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 2: make a conductor, an insulate, or a semiconductor, all these

516
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: kind of things. These are are the foundation of modern

517
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: transistors right.

518
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: Right, But like to make one work, like the early transistors,

519
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: you didn't really need to be thinking about wave functions

520
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: or probabilities to make them work and use them.

521
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: The first solid state transistors which are built out of

522
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: semic conductors, you absolutely did. The previous ones that are

523
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: not solid state, that are like mechanical, those you don't

524
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: need to understand quantum mechanics.

525
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, you need physics to understand everything, Daniel, like to

526
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: use them like it might be first computers or even

527
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: like my phone today doesn't really take into account things

528
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: like the wave functions of the atoms and the transistors.

529
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: Do they Your phone has transistors which are based on semiconductors,

530
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 2: and understanding the energy level of semiconductors requires quantu mechanics. Absolutely.

531
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 2: You can't do that with classical physics.

532
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: Understanding them, yes, but to make them work. And what

533
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm saying is we haven't needed to really dig into

534
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: the quantum mechanics. But as these transitionors get even smaller,

535
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: they are going to be even more important to know

536
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: that the quantum mechanics that are happening.

537
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think quantum mechanics is going to continue to

538
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: be vital. I think the issue for getting them even

539
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 2: smaller is the technology of just making them smaller, Like

540
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: can you physically build these things, like actually assemble this

541
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: device that has like a single row of atoms here

542
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: in a single row of atoms there. I think the

543
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 2: quantum mechanics actually becomes a little simpler as they get smaller,

544
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: because you have fewer atoms to deal with.

545
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: All right, Well, so then that's the physical substrate on

546
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: which the Internet is based on. I think you're also

547
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: trying to make the argument that the communication. Part of

548
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: it also depends on physics.

549
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, once you have these computers and they're cranking along

550
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: and they're doing their calculations on their silicon chips, then

551
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: you want to stick them together. Right, it's not on

552
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: the Internet if they're not stuck together. And the way

553
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: you connect them is with these wires or the fiber

554
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: optics or the satellites, and that's sending information. And all

555
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: of those technologies, even just electrical pulses, fiber optics, satellite technology,

556
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: all that relies on some understanding of physics. In each case,

557
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: it was a breakthrough in physics that allowed us to

558
00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: create some new technology to connect our computers together. What well,

559
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: let's talk about fiber optics. As you say, fiber optics

560
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: are crucial for sending information across the oceans or even

561
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 2: just around your neighborhood. Like in my neighborhood, it's all

562
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: fiber optics that connects houses to houses and to those backbones.

563
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: And that's because it's very robust. Having fiber optics requires

564
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: optics and then also requires lasers to send pulses down

565
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: those fiber optics, you need like tiny little mini lasers,

566
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: which rely again on quantum mechanical principles to send those

567
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: pulses down these crazy glass tubes. And that's where lasers

568
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 2: are super important. The physics of lasers is also fundamentally

569
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: quantum mechanical. Again, you have some kind of atom with

570
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: specific energy levels. That's quantum mechanics, and these atoms can

571
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: emit and absorb specific frequencies of light. And then if

572
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: you add a pumping source that can excite the atoms

573
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: to some high energy state, so they emit that light

574
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: and put the whole thing in a cavity that has

575
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: a resonance at that frequency of light. Then you get

576
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: the laser effect self oscillating because of all that optical feedback.

577
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: That's super cool because you can get a coherent beam

578
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: of light, one that has only one frequency and is

579
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: super collimated. That's perfect for optical communications.

580
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

581
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: Interesting, Although as an engineer, Daniel, I just feel like

582
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: I have to plug think the plug for engineers, Like,

583
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: I wonder if you dig into the history of it

584
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: like that, maybe the person who first started using lasers

585
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: for communications, or the person to figure out you can

586
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: make fiber optics, Like I wonder if you can actually

587
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: drill down and say, oh, the person who came up

588
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: with that idea was an optical engineer, not actually a physicist,

589
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: or like a materials engineer, not actually a physicist, although

590
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: obviously engineers are all trained in physics to some degree.

591
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm not a big fan of drawing

592
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: dotted lines between groups of people and putting labels on them.

593
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: In the end, it's just smart people being curious and

594
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: trying to make new stuff. In the case of the laser,

595
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: I think it really was driven by physicists. You know,

596
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: It's like Charles Towns thought about that a mazer first,

597
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: and then later on people developed into a laser. And

598
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: this is all research down at Bell Labs and at Berkeley,

599
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: and these are academic physicists that invented these ideas for

600
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: the laser. At least in the case of fiber optics,

601
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: I think there's definitely a lot of engineering that goes

602
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: into that. You know, you might have the basic principle

603
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: from physics, but then actually making these fibers that like

604
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: go for miles and miles without losses is really pretty

605
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: impressive amount of engineering. So it's definitely you know, a

606
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 2: beautiful duet of skills.

607
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: All right. Yeah, so, like you said, lasers and optics.

608
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: There's also like radio ways, right, we use radio ways

609
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: to communicate as well.

610
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, most people who are listening to us right now

611
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: are probably receiving that information not through wired communications but

612
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: wireless communication. And back in the day, radio was the

613
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: breakthrough that allowed us to communicate across oceans and to

614
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: receive music in your house in your radio. But these

615
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: days even just Wi fi is essentially an extension of radio.

616
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: We're sending information via electromagnet radiation.

617
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty wild, right, Like Wi fi is such

618
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: a common household word. My kids use it all the time.

619
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: But really you're talking about radio waves being shot everywhere

620
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: on all around.

621
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: This yeah, exactly. And to orient you radio waves on

622
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: your FM dial, for example, those are like eighty eight

623
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: or up to like rockin one o eight or whatever.

624
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: Those are all megahertz frequencies. So you know, ninety three

625
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 2: point seven means ninety three point seven megahertz. That's the

626
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: frequency of the radio wave that's being used to transmit

627
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: you information. But that's just the frequency of the light.

628
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: If the frequency was in another range, it would be

629
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: visible light that you could see it. If it was

630
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: in a different range, it would be Wi Fi. So

631
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: Wi Fi is in like two and a half gigahertz

632
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: or these days the five gene networks or five gigaherts,

633
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: so much higher frequency, but still basically radio waves.

634
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always wonder, like what if our eyes could

635
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: somehow see radio waves or see like a different range

636
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: of frequencies of light, Like wou would just be walking

637
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: around with like bright lights and pulsing lights everywhere all

638
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: around this.

639
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: It's sort of amazing. We can only see a tiny

640
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: slice of the spectrum. Of course, the slice that we

641
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: can see happens to be also the most common kind

642
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: of light. Our ability to see light peaks where the

643
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: sun is the brightest, so that's not a coincidence. But

644
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: there are other species out there with the capacity to

645
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: see light into the UV or down into the infrared.

646
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: So it's not like only humans that can see things obviously.

647
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like if you could see light in that frequency,

648
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: you would hold up your phone and sometimes it would

649
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: glow a little bit more or start pulsing a little

650
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: bit more than when it's sending these signals out exactly.

651
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: And when we look out into the universe, we have

652
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: infrared telescopes, we have X ray telescopes, we have UV telescopes.

653
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: They all see different things out there in the night sky.

654
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: The night sky looks very different in the infrared as

655
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: it does invisible light, or it does in the UV.

656
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: So if we have the ability to see those things,

657
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: we would see lots of other stuff going on all

658
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: the time, and then we might give a second thought

659
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: to like filling our world with these waves. We wouldn't

660
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: build a communication system that relied on flashing visible light everywhere.

661
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: That would just drive people crazy. So it's sort of

662
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: an advantage that it's not visible to us, because then

663
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: we can use it to invisibly send information.

664
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess if you had the idea to make

665
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: your cell phone work using visible light, it would be

666
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: kind of a terrible idea. I mean, you'd be basically

667
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: doing like a morph code between ships.

668
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: But there's also a lot of clever engineering in making

669
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: like cellular phones work. Wi Fi is one thing, it's

670
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: a certain band of information, but cell phones work and

671
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: different frequencies, and there's a lot of really clever ideas

672
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: to making your cell phone work.

673
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: Well, maybe can you talk about how the antenna in

674
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: my cell phone works? Like, is it like a little

675
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: tiny flashlight that just emits light at a certain frequency.

676
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: Or is it more like the traditional radio antennas.

677
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: It's more like a traditional radio antenna. Basically, the way

678
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: you emit electromagnetic radiation hasn't changed. You take a bunch

679
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: of electrons, you wiggle them back and forth, and wiggling

680
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: electrons makes wiggles in the electromagnetic field. Because information takes

681
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: time to propagate. You move an electron up, the field changes,

682
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: but not instantly at a distance. So you move it

683
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: up and down, up and down, up and down. Then

684
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: the electric field is changing and is changing up and down,

685
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: up and down, up and down. And so that's basically

686
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: how you create electromagnetic radiation. You wiggle it a fast frequency,

687
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: you get high frequency radiation. You wiggle it slowly, you

688
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 2: get low frequency radiation. That's the way you generate electromagnetic

689
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: radiation in your antenna. That's also the way you can

690
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: receive it. You got electrons in the antenna, they are

691
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: wiggled by incoming radiation. You detect that and you pick

692
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: up the signal.

693
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: It seems almost very primitive, right.

694
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: Yes, it's sort of old school.

695
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's get into some of the other

696
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: technologies in your cell phone and how those depend and

697
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: maybe not depend on physics and or engineers. So it's

698
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: to that. But first let's take a quick break. All right,

699
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about the physics of the Internet and now

700
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: specifically about the physics in your cell phone. And we

701
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: talked about the antennas and how Wi Fi works, but

702
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: there's also other interesting physics in other parts of your

703
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: cell phone.

704
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wi Fi is a certain frequency, and you know

705
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 2: how your phone can be connected to your house Wi

706
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: Fi and you get all sorts of good stuff at

707
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 2: very high speeds. But then when you're out and about

708
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 2: and there isn't Wi Fi, you can connect to your

709
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 2: cell phone data network and it's a completely different way

710
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: to receive information that relies on the same physical principles.

711
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: It's still basically radio packets, though it's at a different frequency.

712
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: So whereas Wi Fi is like two and a half

713
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: or five gigaherts, cell phones receive data like nine hundred

714
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: megahertz ish. But as you're walking around they do something

715
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: that seems kind of magical, Like you walk down the street,

716
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 2: you try to with your friend, You're getting further and

717
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: further away from that antenna that's sending you information and

718
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: receiving information. All of a sudden you're closer to another

719
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: antenna and you don't even notice, you don't even care,

720
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: you're watching that cat video or talking to your friend.

721
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: It just is all smooth and seamless. That's accomplished through

722
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 2: a lot of really clever engineering to hand that call

723
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: off from one tower to the next tower.

724
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: Now, can you explain, Daniel, what in these cell phone

725
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: companies what they mean by like five G, seven G LTE.

726
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: Is that all different physical technologies like higher, faster, more accurate,

727
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: or is it just like the protocols are getting more sophisticated.

728
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: Five G means fifth generation and so in some senses,

729
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: like a change in the underlying technology that we're using.

730
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: It's a change in the frequency of that radiation we're

731
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: using to go from like three D to four G

732
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: or LTE, is a change in the protocols, like how

733
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: they're handing them off from one to the other, how

734
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: they're building that information into the packets that get sent

735
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,240
Speaker 2: back and forth between the phone and the tower. That's

736
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: all engineering.

737
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's all engineering. It's not just then a sort

738
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: of our antenna and our radio ways there's also other

739
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: interesting physics in your phone, like even just like how

740
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: your phone knows which way you're holding it.

741
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, your phone can do something pretty cool, which is

742
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: can measure your location. But it could also, for example,

743
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: measure your acceleration. So there's two things there that your

744
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: phone can do. One is it can sense its direction.

745
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: It's got like a little tiny gyroscope in it. But

746
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: also it's got an accelerometer, so it can measure basically

747
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: whether you are speeding up or slowing down. You know, fundamentally,

748
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: the principle of relativity says you can't measure your velocity.

749
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: There's no absolute velocity. So if you're on a train,

750
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: or if you're standing on the ground, or if you're

751
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: an airplane, your phone can't tell I mean other than

752
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: like measuring your location using GPS. But just on the phone,

753
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 2: it can tell if you're accelerating. It can tell if

754
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: you're speeding up. You can tell if you're slowing down.

755
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: It can tell if you're like crashed, because that's a

756
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: moment of severe deceleration. And to do that, he uses

757
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 2: a very old school kind of physics sensor.

758
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: Right, it's just basically like a weight at the end

759
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: of a spring.

760
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Like if you were in the back of

761
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: a pickup truck and you had a bowling ball, you

762
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: could tell when the person hit the gas because the

763
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 2: bowling ball would roll towards the back of the truck,

764
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: And you could tell when they hit the brake because

765
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: the bowling ball would roll towards the front of the truck.

766
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: So all you need is some sort of mass and

767
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: for it to be not connected to the rest of

768
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: the truck or in this case of the phone. So

769
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: inside your phone they have something that's kind of like that.

770
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 2: It's not a bowling ball, but it's a big blob

771
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: of metal. It's basically balanced on a very fragile spring,

772
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: and when you accelerate your phone, that metal is like

773
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: left behind a little bit, and when you break, that

774
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: metal keeps going a little bit. And inside the accelerometer,

775
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: it measures the position of this slab of metal relative

776
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: to the rest of the circuit board, and so it

777
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: can tell when you're accelerating it. So if you like

778
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: shake your phone, it can tell that you're shaking your

779
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: phone in frustration.

780
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: Right, but it's not just shaking like dun't. Cellphones also

781
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: use excelerometers to measure the direction of gravity and to

782
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: tell which ways up and down and whether you're holding

783
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: your phone like horizontally or vertically. They use excelometis for that.

784
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: Right Yeah, And principle, you could measure the gravity of

785
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: the Earth because that's basically an accelerometer. If you jumped

786
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: off a building, you'd be in free fall. There's no

787
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 2: gravity for you to measure. You just naturally following the

788
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: curvature or space and time. But if you're standing on

789
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: the Earth, the Earth is pushing you up against your

790
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: natural inclination to follow that curvature, and that's acceleration. And

791
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: so what you actually measure as gravity on the surface

792
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: of the Earth is really the acceleration of the surface

793
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: of the Earth relative to the natural motion in curved space.

794
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: Pretty cool. And you also made me think of your

795
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: GPS and your phone also requires basically a special or

796
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: general relativity to make that work, right.

797
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. The network of satellites that tell you where you

798
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 2: are and where you can go to get your boba

799
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 2: or whatever. Those are very precise locations. You get messages

800
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 2: from those satellites, and your phone reconstructs your location based

801
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: on like the pulses and the information those satellites, and

802
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: they have to be very, very precise in order for

803
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: you to have precise timing information. And those things are

804
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: moving far above the surface of the Earth where time

805
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: flows differently because space is not as curved in their

806
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: orbits as it is down here on Earth. If you

807
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: don't account for that in all of your calculations, then

808
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 2: all the clocks get out of sync and you don't

809
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 2: make it to your Bobas store before it closes.

810
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: Which I know is a primary concern of yours at

811
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: all times. And Daniel, you're always trying to get that Buba. Yeah,

812
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: it's like they try to make GPS work, but it

813
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 1: didn't work, and then they realize they needed to take

814
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: into account like the curvature of space around the Earth, right,

815
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: and the way that time slows down for things that

816
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: are closer to Earth and further away from Earth.

817
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, exactly, Clocks on the surface of the Earth

818
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: run more slowly because we are deeper in a gravitational well,

819
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: there's a greater curvature of space and time here on

820
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 2: the surface of the Earth than there is up in

821
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: orbit in space where the curvature is less, and so

822
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 2: time runs more naturally it runs faster, so you got

823
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: to take that into account.

824
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I guess the last category is sort

825
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: of like a power in your cell phone that also

826
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: requires a lot of physics.

827
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you build a computer, then it requires power.

828
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 2: You know, you got to plug it into the wall.

829
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: And if you're running a bitcoin farm somewhere, of course,

830
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: then you know it takes a significant amount of power

831
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: to do computation. And in the end, this comes down

832
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: to thermodynamics, which of course is a fundamental part of physics. Essentially,

833
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: if you have a computer, doing computation means changing the state.

834
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: You want to flip a bit from zero to one,

835
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: you want to change a circuit. Anytime you do that,

836
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: anytime you change the configuration of an object that's doing

837
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: work that requires moving something, it takes energy to flip

838
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: a bit, or to move those electrons to create the

839
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: conduction channels inside your transistor. All that stuff takes energy,

840
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: which means it's always, always, always going to generate waste heat.

841
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 2: That's what thron dynamics tells us that you can't do

842
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 2: anything without creating weight, heat and silicon awayfirst, when they're

843
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: doing computation, generate a lot of heat so you know,

844
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 2: like one hundred watts boils off of a silicon chip

845
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: as it's cook and as it's doing its thing, And

846
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: so it takes a lot of power to do computation.

847
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: And one thing that the Internet has enabled specifically is

848
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 2: not just putting a bunch of computers on the Internet,

849
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: so you can send stuff back and forth to each other,

850
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: but you can do computing remotely. If I have a

851
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: calculation I want to do, I don't need to do

852
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: it on my computer. I can send it to a

853
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: bunch of computers up at Berkeley or down at Livermore

854
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: or somewhere else. Basically cloud computing. Amazon has these huge

855
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: data centers filled with computers that people can use at

856
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: a moment's notice because the Internet basically means that they're

857
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 2: right there with us. That also means that it's simpler

858
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: to have access to vast quantities of computing. You don't

859
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 2: have to build your own computing center to have a

860
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: lot of computing power, and that's become very very popular.

861
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: I use it in my research all the time. Cern

862
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 2: for example, has an enormous set of computers all around

863
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: the world that work together to solve problems. But as

864
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: these computer centers get bigger and bigger, of course they

865
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: draw more and more power. Projections suggest that these data

866
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: centers are going to keep sucking energy and it's going

867
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 2: to keep growing. The networks, of course, also use energy.

868
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 2: It's not just like free to send information down the wire.

869
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: You've got to create a pulse. That's power that takes energy.

870
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 2: One projection I read suggested that by twenty thirty, more

871
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 2: than twenty percent of all electricity demand will come from

872
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 2: the internet, data centers, consumer devices. Production of these things,

873
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: like actually building these things takes energy, and then just

874
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: running the networks altogether, these things are going to take

875
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: more than twenty percent of our energy budget. It's dominated

876
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: by the networks and by the data centers. You also

877
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: got to spend energy to cool these things, like they

878
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: are generating waste heat, which means that they're using power.

879
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: But then you also need to keep them cool because

880
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 2: they melt themselves down. They're no long we're going to

881
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: be able to do any computation. So there's like air

882
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 2: cooling and water cooling, and that involves again more heat

883
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: transfer and more power, which takes more energy. So all

884
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: this stuff is not free. The internet costs a lot

885
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 2: of power, and as we move into a future where

886
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: using power has significant consequences for our climate and for

887
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: our globe, we got to make sure we're not just

888
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: like spending a huge amount of power to make cavideos.

889
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: So there's real consequences there. Power is a very important

890
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: part of the Internet, and understanding how that works in

891
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: the end comes down to the basic thermodynamics of how

892
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 2: computing really works.

893
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: All right, well, I guess that's another interesting reminder that

894
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: there's physics everywhere, including on the thing that probably most

895
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: humans use nowadays the most.

896
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: That's right, physics has enabled all of your goofing.

897
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: Off physics and engineering.

898
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 2: Physics has sort of shot itself in the foot. It's

899
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 2: so effective at building communication networks and new technology to

900
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: connect us than now we're all so distractable.

901
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: Although if you asked me, as some of you might know,

902
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: I am a big fan of distractions for a creative thinking,

903
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: So in a way, maybe the Internet has helped the creatuty.

904
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: Also, physics is powering your procrastination, that's what you're saying.

905
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I have physics to blame and engineering to think.

906
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 2: Would you say you're a procrastination engineer or procrastination artist.

907
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm a procrastination engine artist. All right. Well again, just

908
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: a fun reminder to keep your eyes open because there

909
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: are interesting things to discover and to explore and to

910
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: find the science of in our everyday lives.

911
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 2: That's right. And remember that as we understand the universe

912
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: better and better, we can develop new technologies which then

913
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 2: help us understand the universe better and better. So physics

914
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 2: is cyclical.

915
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: Yep, as is engineering.

916
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: Right.

917
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: Well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining thing

918
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: is See you next time.

919
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

920
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discorg, Insta,

921
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 2: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

922
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 2: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

923
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

924
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.