Speaker 1: Hey, besties, Hello sunshine.
Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, we're calling in the one
Speaker 2: with licensed marriage and family therapist Catherine Woodward Thomas.
Speaker 1: She quite literally wrote the book on finding the love
Speaker 1: of your life in seven weeks or less. So now
Speaker 1: twenty years later, her book is popping up everywhere, and
Speaker 1: she's here to talk through how it works and why
Speaker 1: it's still making waves. It's Monday, April twenty second. Happy
Speaker 1: Earth Day, everybody. I'm Danielle Robe and I'm.
Speaker 2: Simone Voice, and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, Danielle.
Speaker 2: It's Earth Day, and this day reminds me of one
Speaker 2: formative core memory from childhood. Tell me, and that is
Speaker 2: eating those pudding cups with the cookie crumble on top
Speaker 2: and the gummy worm in it.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: You never had that, No. I used to have it
Speaker 2: in like elementary school on Earth Day because it looked
Speaker 2: like an earthworm. That symbolized our connection to nature.
Speaker 1: That's so sweet. Every Earth Day, my mom used to
Speaker 1: grab garbage bags and gloves and we used to go
Speaker 1: walk around the town that we lived in and pick
Speaker 1: up garbage. And I think because of that memory, I
Speaker 1: always say the only people that I don't like in
Speaker 1: the world are litterers.
Speaker 2: I agree with you, not a big fan of litterers.
Speaker 1: Everybody else I love and accept and value, but litterers
Speaker 1: I cannot do. Obviously, Earth Day is incredibly meaningful. But
Speaker 1: one of the fun things I think you can do
Speaker 1: is think about the five best things you've ever seen
Speaker 1: on Earth.
Speaker 2: I like that, what would be one of yours.
Speaker 1: I saw two turtles making a baby one time, and
Speaker 1: that blew my mind.
Speaker 2: So turtle sex.
Speaker 1: No, no, not that it's not like miraculous, but I
Speaker 1: mean animals are cool. Shooting stars are pretty amazing. I
Speaker 1: saw the Grand Canyon that really was awe inducing. How
Speaker 1: about you?
Speaker 2: I think the quand see waterfall in Laos. It looks otherworldly,
Speaker 2: looks like it's it's literally made by fairies, or fairies
Speaker 2: could be like flying above it. It's just gorgeous. The way
Speaker 2: the water cascades through these rocks. That was definitely up
Speaker 2: there for me.
Speaker 1: That's super cool. What'd you do this weekend?
Speaker 2: I took my kids to meet Blippy. I have a
Speaker 2: four year old and a two year old pee. Blippy
Speaker 2: is a preschool YouTube personality. Okay, yeah, very educational kind
Speaker 2: of like this generation's Mister Rogers meets Pee Wee Herman
Speaker 2: something like that. So we took them to go meet
Speaker 2: him at a little like educational event.
Speaker 1: I had a very different weekend.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine. I didn't see you at the
Speaker 2: Blippy event. It was weird. I was looking for you
Speaker 2: and you weren't there.
Speaker 1: I went to a birthday party on Saturday night that
Speaker 1: started at ten pm. I haven't been out that late
Speaker 1: and so like, I can't even believe that you can
Speaker 1: call a birthday party for ten pm. But the dress
Speaker 1: code was kind of tree chic, so I wore like
Speaker 1: an all dnim outfit circa Britney Spears justin Timberlake. Their
Speaker 1: like full dena moment nice. I love costume parties, but
Speaker 1: they also stress me out because I never have time
Speaker 1: to go and get an outfit right before the party.
Speaker 1: So I try and make something in my closet work,
Speaker 1: and it's never quite as great as the people who
Speaker 1: really take time to get into it. I saw some
Speaker 1: great outfits celebrated my friend Rachel and I actually haven't
Speaker 1: had a drink in a really long time, and I
Speaker 1: had one drink, just one, just one. I like to
Speaker 1: wake Up Fresh. I can't handle too much well. Swifties
Speaker 1: spent almost all weekend listening to Taylor Swift's The Tortured
Speaker 1: Poets Department, and I see people online calling it a
Speaker 1: breakup album. Not different from her other albums many, I mean,
Speaker 1: some are love albums. This is a breakup album. But
Speaker 1: the one thing she did differently this time that stuck
Speaker 1: out to me was she put a bunch of positive
Speaker 1: messages out with the out drop, and I think she's
Speaker 1: sort of closing this chapter of her life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm gathering from what she wrote on
Speaker 2: Instagram too. She said there's nothing to avenge, no scores
Speaker 2: to settle, once wounds have healed and upon further reflection,
Speaker 2: this is interesting. A good number of them turned out
Speaker 2: to be self inflicted, so she's taking accountability here. I
Speaker 2: like this last part of what she wrote. She said,
Speaker 2: once we have spoken our saddest story, we can be
Speaker 2: free of it.
Speaker 1: Nothing to avenge, no scores to settle. I think this
Speaker 1: is important because historically her fans are so intense that
Speaker 1: they go after anybody who they even think has wronged her,
Speaker 1: Like do you remember Jake Jillen Hall or Joe Jonas
Speaker 1: like her fans just go after people. I think this
Speaker 1: is her way of seeing, like, don't do that. All good,
Speaker 1: no hate to my exes. The only drama I've kind
Speaker 1: of seen come from this album is a song thank
Speaker 1: You Amy, and the k I Am in that title
Speaker 1: is capitalized, so everybody thinks it's about Kim Kardashian and
Speaker 1: there's some dramas around that.
Speaker 2: So she's taking ownership for her pardon everything and moving forward,
Speaker 2: But just with the little bit of drama thrown in.
Speaker 1: I just feel like she's saying two opposite things. She's
Speaker 1: saying I'm taking accountability, no hate, and she's saying all's
Speaker 1: fair in love and poetry. I'm putting it out there.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, she's an entertainer and
Speaker 2: this is all for entertainment value, and she is so
Speaker 2: good at creating a narrative and drumming up this incredible
Speaker 2: lore that keeps her fans engaged for decades.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I mean, here's what I love about this moment in time,
Speaker 2: and I loved the reaction to Beyonce's album for this
Speaker 2: same reason. There are very few pieces of art or
Speaker 2: culture nowadays that unite everyone and draw our attention in
Speaker 2: the way that a Taylor Swift album drop does or
Speaker 2: a Beyonce album drop does. I mean I feel that
Speaker 2: way about like Game of Thrones when it was on,
Speaker 2: everybody stopped what they were doing and they all watched
Speaker 2: it and digested it together. So this is an example
Speaker 2: of monoculture, and it feels like we don't have that
Speaker 2: many instances of that that we can point to nowadays.
Speaker 1: You're right about monoculture. I think this indicates kind of
Speaker 1: a new wave, which I like. Okay, Another thing worth
Speaker 1: talking about is that there was a recent study published
Speaker 1: that says America is not as divided as we think
Speaker 1: it is. And I think we tend to think in
Speaker 1: our country right now that we're really divided. It feels
Speaker 1: that way if you log onto social media. But I
Speaker 1: want to share some good news that I read about
Speaker 1: on the state of our country right now, because I
Speaker 1: think it's going to make us all feel better. A
Speaker 1: recent poll by the Associated Press and the Nork Center
Speaker 1: for Public Affairs Research found that despite all of the
Speaker 1: polarization we feel in our country, we seem to agree
Speaker 1: on what it means to be American. So nine out
Speaker 1: of ten adults in the US believe in the right
Speaker 1: to vote, the right to privacy, basically all of the
Speaker 1: First Amendment, and they feel like these are key parts
Speaker 1: of the American identity. I'm so tired of the polarization rhetoric.
Speaker 1: I get happy every time I read something like this.
Speaker 2: We need this kind of good news right now. I mean,
Speaker 2: I look at our society today and it just feels
Speaker 2: so different from the environment that I grew up in
Speaker 2: as a nineties kid. I can remember my parents having
Speaker 2: friends that they disagreed with on just about everything in
Speaker 2: terms of politics, but that didn't stop them from being friends.
Speaker 2: And it seems like we've lost sight of that. And listen,
Speaker 2: I know that everybody has their deal breakers and their
Speaker 2: issues that are non negotiables. But I think this is
Speaker 2: really encouraging, and this just reflects what I'm seeing. Whenever
Speaker 2: we have conversations offline, whenever we have conversations that aren't
Speaker 2: taking place on cable news shows, the extremes just drive
Speaker 2: a lot of that conversation and that vitriol and that tension.
Speaker 1: We have become divided because we are physically divided, and
Speaker 1: so the more togetherness we have, the less the divisiveness.
Speaker 1: Seems like the end all be all, because you can
Speaker 1: be around a dinner table full of people that you
Speaker 1: disagree with and you can have a conversation face to
Speaker 1: face that seems interesting or fine to have. When you
Speaker 1: are disagreeing on the internet, people get irate, And I
Speaker 1: think that's like a huge difference here. But I always
Speaker 1: try to remind myself, like I'm a student of history,
Speaker 1: and I remind myself that America has been held together
Speaker 1: through way worse times than now. We can get through
Speaker 1: this time. We just need a few.
Speaker 2: More dinners, exactly, a few more dinner parties. Dinner parties
Speaker 2: care everything. Yeah, I love that you brought up that
Speaker 2: example of how we've lost sight of that socialization that
Speaker 2: we had in like the eighties and before. I'm someone
Speaker 2: who has a very ideologically diverse group of friends, and
Speaker 2: I don't see that all that often. But what I've
Speaker 2: observed in my group of friends, where I have people
Speaker 2: who are more on the right, people who are more
Speaker 2: on the left, a lot of them are saying the
Speaker 2: same things behind closed doors, and a lot of them
Speaker 2: feel fear about expressing their true opinions and expressing how
Speaker 2: they really feel about certain issues and I often find
Speaker 2: myself thinking, Wow, I just wish I could bring these
Speaker 2: groups together and let these conversations out and give people
Speaker 2: a space where they feel like they could be truly honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think our values have really been politicized in
Speaker 1: the last few years. But I personally welcome uncomfortable conversation. Like,
Speaker 1: I really like hearing from people that I disagree with.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean they're going to change my mind, but
Speaker 1: I like hearing where they're coming from and why. There's
Speaker 1: usually a story behind it.
Speaker 2: Well. Also, whenever you have conversations with people that you
Speaker 2: disagree with, it helps you understand your positions better, and
Speaker 2: it helps you understand your own values better.
Speaker 1: Yeah I agree.
Speaker 2: Okay, up next, can we really find the love of
Speaker 2: our lives in just seven weeks? Well, we'll find out
Speaker 2: after the break. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Simone Boyce. So
Speaker 2: we've been seeing this book everywhere. It's called Calling in
Speaker 2: the One seven weeks to attract the Love of your Life.
Speaker 2: A friend of mine found her perfect match this way, Danielle.
Speaker 2: Celebrities have been posting about it book clubs or reading
Speaker 2: it together, and apparently it works for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, this book came out two decades ago and
Speaker 2: it's having a renaissance now.
Speaker 1: I have been seeing it all over today night, and
Speaker 1: we have the creator of this renowned method with us today.
Speaker 1: Catherine Woodward Thomas is a licensed marriage and family therapist.
Speaker 1: She's also the best selling author of Calling in the
Speaker 1: one seven weeks to Attract the love of your life.
Speaker 1: And if you remember the term conscious uncoupling made popular
Speaker 1: by Gwyneth Paltrow years ago, that was Catherine's phrase, Catherine,
Speaker 1: welcome to the bright side.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so great to be here with you guys.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: This feels like a treat. Oh I'm about to get
Speaker 1: a masterclass of love.
Speaker 2: We all are, because I know there are a lot
Speaker 2: of applications of this method outside of just calling in
Speaker 2: a romantic relationship. So we're going to get to that later.
Speaker 2: But Catherine, Danielle and I have been trying to talk
Speaker 2: to you about calling in.
Speaker 3: The book with me anything.
Speaker 2: Yes, we love a carte blanche interview. As I mentioned,
Speaker 2: it's all over my timeline. People are still raving about it.
Speaker 2: But I want to start by just breaking down what
Speaker 2: this method is. So what is it and how does
Speaker 2: calling in the one work?
Speaker 3: Okay, so most great dating advice is kind of external
Speaker 3: to us. This is what you should wear, this is
Speaker 3: what you should say, Wait five minutes before you answer
Speaker 3: a text. You know, don't appear too available, you know,
Speaker 3: all of those great little tips and helpful things. But
Speaker 3: calling in the one is very different because it's really
Speaker 3: about aligning your internal consciousness with the future that you're
Speaker 3: committed to creating. Now, most of us, when it comes
Speaker 3: to love, are carrying history books of disappointments, kind of
Speaker 3: mixed messages. We remember when we were twelve and our
Speaker 3: friends got bras before we did, and we remember, you know,
Speaker 3: the dynamic between our parents or between ourselves and our
Speaker 3: older siblings. You know, we kind of have a lot
Speaker 3: going on about this concept of love. And basically when
Speaker 3: we're talking about love, we're talking about who really sees me,
Speaker 3: Who do I feel safe with, who do I feel
Speaker 3: supported by? Who is there for me? Really? So it's
Speaker 3: very core and primal. So calling in the one is
Speaker 3: very informed by your history, and it kind of understands
Speaker 3: the psychology of the repetition compulsion and how we all
Speaker 3: have patterns and how we're the source of our patterns,
Speaker 3: and we actually start in a really unlikely place, and
Speaker 3: that's with the future that you're committed to creating, and
Speaker 3: this inquiry like who would you need to be in
Speaker 3: order to manifest the relationship you want? How will you
Speaker 3: need to grow? What are you going to need to
Speaker 3: let go of? And how can you actively begin to
Speaker 3: co create that? What's your next step to co create
Speaker 3: with the universe and manifest that miracle of love.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you use the word manifest just now,
Speaker 1: because the approach is really about manifesting that person, and
Speaker 1: you ask readers to set a quote miraculous intention to
Speaker 1: meet their person. So, for example, by the summer of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, I will have met the love of
Speaker 1: my life. Why is that part that futurizing important for
Speaker 1: the process.
Speaker 3: So there's so much now happening, you know, around manifestation.
Speaker 3: It's like the big buzzwords, right, we all want to
Speaker 3: know what's my you know, how much agency do I
Speaker 3: have to impact the future? And a lot of us
Speaker 3: have kind of or we kind of grew up being
Speaker 3: a little passive about the future. So what's waking up
Speaker 3: in the collective is this sense of agency like, wow,
Speaker 3: I really can influence what does and doesn't happen. But
Speaker 3: I'll also tell you that research has demonstrated this. I mean,
Speaker 3: way back in the nineteen eighties, there was research done
Speaker 3: on the positive possible self of the future, but they
Speaker 3: actually demonstrated that when you're living into a possible self
Speaker 3: of your future consciously, because most of us do have
Speaker 3: a possible self of the future and it's negative, it's
Speaker 3: like more of the same. Oh, interesting, we're afraid we're
Speaker 3: always going to be single, or no one will ever
Speaker 3: love us, or we're going to die alone, you know,
Speaker 3: something like that. So if you actually consciously cultivate low,
Speaker 3: what does it feel like to be me being loved
Speaker 3: and supported and happy and having overcome my past and
Speaker 3: you know, really located my core value and my you know,
Speaker 3: my and access to the power that I have to
Speaker 3: grow healthy and strong. If you're living into that future,
Speaker 3: it will begin to motivate you to show up very
Speaker 3: differently in the present. So how we're showing up has
Speaker 3: everything to do with what we're generating.
Speaker 1: When you say living into the future, what if you
Speaker 1: can't envision that, Because I do believe you have to
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 3: Yes to achieve it.
Speaker 1: Yes, what if you don't know what the dream house
Speaker 1: looks like or the dream I have no idea what
Speaker 1: the face of my future partner looks like.
Speaker 3: Well, you don't need to know the face, but you
Speaker 3: do need to start to cultivate a connection with what
Speaker 3: it might feel like to be really seen, Okay, And
Speaker 3: it's an active imagination process, that's what the visioning processes.
Speaker 3: And you're kind of trying on as best you can,
Speaker 3: and you might just get slivers of what that might
Speaker 3: feel like, because maybe you feel that way when your
Speaker 3: dog comes and greets you at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: You know, just it's unconditional love. So you do know
Speaker 3: the experience, you know the experience from moments in your
Speaker 3: life with maybe a child, or your mom, or your
Speaker 3: sister or your friends. So if you are overly identified
Speaker 3: with what I call the traumatized self of the past
Speaker 3: or your wounded self, you know, the part of you
Speaker 3: that was never good enough, the part of you that
Speaker 3: was always put down, or the part of you that
Speaker 3: was abused in some way. So you're still emotionally kind
Speaker 3: of anchored and it's not really safe to open myself
Speaker 3: up to love. So then you have to wake yourself
Speaker 3: up to what else might be more true, because if
Speaker 3: you really ask yourself, well, where is that self in
Speaker 3: the body, and you'll you know, you can kind of
Speaker 3: usually feel it like a heaviness on your heart or
Speaker 3: are you going to feel it like you know, kind
Speaker 3: of a sick feeling in your belly? And then you
Speaker 3: say to yourself, sweetheart, how old are you? And you
Speaker 3: recognize this is a younger part of you.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Whatever was happening back then that gave you the idea
Speaker 3: that you weren't safe, You didn't have a lot of
Speaker 3: resources to deal with it, you didn't have a lot
Speaker 3: of support, and it was completely overwhelming because you couldn't
Speaker 3: really comprehend it with any sense of complexity or sophistication.
Speaker 3: So the ability to then speak to yourself and say,
Speaker 3: you know what, honey, love is dangerous if you don't
Speaker 3: have good boundaries, if you don't know how to actually,
Speaker 3: you know, assert your feelings and needs in a healthy way.
Speaker 3: But guess what, we have the power to learn those skills.
Speaker 3: And I am the source of safety in love for
Speaker 3: myself and for others. So that's the part that needs
Speaker 3: to be in charge of love and not that younger
Speaker 3: wound itself. O.
Speaker 2: I wasn't planning on doing inner child work today. I
Speaker 2: got to be honest. I did not wake up and
Speaker 2: see this in my day.
Speaker 1: For today, you emphasize the concept of calling in the
Speaker 1: right partner rather than finding the right partner. What's the difference.
Speaker 3: You know, we all live in such a go get them,
Speaker 3: make it happen kind of world. We kind of really
Speaker 3: trust the logic of how to create something that's pretty wonderful.
Speaker 3: If you want a PhD, you can probably research graduate
Speaker 3: schools and figure out what tests you need to take
Speaker 3: or what you need to do to get into that school,
Speaker 3: how you're going to make the money to do it.
Speaker 3: It's pretty laid out before you. But when you want
Speaker 3: to create true love, it's a really different system. You
Speaker 3: can't make true love happen. You can really only make
Speaker 3: it welcomed and create the conditions for it and become
Speaker 3: who you would need to be in order for that
Speaker 3: future to happen. So it's almost like if you're going
Speaker 3: to go for the Olympic gold. You can't know from
Speaker 3: the start you're going to win the gold, but you
Speaker 3: go all in to create the right conditions for that
Speaker 3: possible thing to happen to you. So when we're talking about,
Speaker 3: you know, making it happen, which is a little bit
Speaker 3: of going out to find that person, you're going out
Speaker 3: with your mental self, your list, and what your criteria is.
Speaker 3: So you're listening to your intuition. What's my next step?
Speaker 3: What would I need to give up? Well, probably you know,
Speaker 3: the hope that my ex boyfriend is going to come back.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up because you talk a
Speaker 2: lot about letting go in order to let love in.
Speaker 2: So what are some of the things that you're asking
Speaker 2: your readers to let go of?
Speaker 3: You know, I always trust how it comes to it.
Speaker 3: So there's this hole in the calling. In the one,
Speaker 3: it's written as a forty nine day course, so it's
Speaker 3: to just get a little bits and piece each day
Speaker 3: things to do, which we all love. We love roadmaps.
Speaker 1: Is that seven weeks?
Speaker 3: That's the seven weeks forty nine days? Yes, and that's
Speaker 3: you know, and where did that come from? I mean,
Speaker 3: I wrote the book twenty years ago. I must have
Speaker 3: just been reading something about Siddartha or Gluddhism or something,
Speaker 3: because that's how long Siddartha's sat under the body tree
Speaker 3: before he became enlightened, you know, So anyway, that's where
Speaker 3: it came from. But I think we all know what
Speaker 3: there is to let go of. I need to let
Speaker 3: go of drinking every night, or I need to let
Speaker 3: go of dimming down to try and not be a
Speaker 3: threat to other people and pretending to be less than
Speaker 3: I am. I need to let go of how hard
Speaker 3: I am on myself. I need to let go of
Speaker 3: so for less because I don't think I'm really going
Speaker 3: to do any better. I need to let go of
Speaker 3: tolerating selfish people in my life and accommodating them and
Speaker 3: not confronting them when they dismiss me and my needs.
Speaker 3: I need to let go of being conflict avoidant. You know,
Speaker 3: do you you know we kind of know this.
Speaker 2: Is so good, This is so good.
Speaker 3: Well, this is good for even being in relationship. How
Speaker 3: do I actualize the potentials of that relationship? And I
Speaker 3: do have a lot of people coming and doing calling
Speaker 3: in the one and the future that they're committing to
Speaker 3: is my partner and I are thriving. You know, we
Speaker 3: are doing great. We are expanded in our love. So
Speaker 3: you know you can start with that future too.
Speaker 2: I love that. I kind of want to do this
Speaker 2: with my husband. Does anybody ever do that?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes they do. And my wildest story about that
Speaker 3: is I had a whole family of there were six
Speaker 3: grown up children who all over the United States and
Speaker 3: their two parents, and they met once a week and
Speaker 3: they all did together.
Speaker 1: Both men and women. Yes, Because one of the things
Speaker 1: I find is that I hear women talk about this
Speaker 1: book all the time, and I kind of wish more
Speaker 1: men were doing it too well.
Speaker 3: I think just men need to be invited and know that.
Speaker 3: It's the thing. I mean, Look, men are valued a
Speaker 3: lot in the culture. Traditionally that's changing fast, but you know,
Speaker 3: traditionally men have been valued for what they can make happen,
Speaker 3: So you know that kind of hero agency to go
Speaker 3: and you know, make it happen. But this is a
Speaker 3: different system, and you might say it's a more feminine
Speaker 3: system of creativity.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back, Catherine Woodward Thomas. You wrote this book twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, it's still to this day. Is something
Speaker 1: that people are gravitating towards. When I talk to people
Speaker 1: about dating that are older than me, they're always like, well,
Speaker 1: dating is just so different nowadays, is it really?
Speaker 3: To me?
Speaker 1: It's kind of the same. It's just we have some technology.
Speaker 3: You know, it is different and it is the same,
Speaker 3: and so the technology is clearly different, but the technology
Speaker 3: means that there's more choice. I think twenty years ago
Speaker 3: and I wrote it, there was this kind of emerging
Speaker 3: new paradigm back then of love between equal partners, both
Speaker 3: people holding power in love, which if you really look
Speaker 3: historically at how relationships have gone, was a very new thing.
Speaker 3: And then you do have a lot more choices, which
Speaker 3: has been shown to really stress people out and actually
Speaker 3: get in the way of making a decision. So you
Speaker 3: have to be very aware of what you like and
Speaker 3: what your life is about what you're committed to. And
Speaker 3: so the calling in the One Course, I think why
Speaker 3: it's hitting now is because it used to be. When
Speaker 3: the book first came out, it was kind of for
Speaker 3: women over thirty five. It was really interesting. Women over
Speaker 3: thirty five were finally like, oh, you know, I might
Speaker 3: want to have a family. This isn't really working for me.
Speaker 3: Let me be willing to go a bit deeper. Now
Speaker 3: it's across the board, women and men in their twenties,
Speaker 3: even in their teens, are more aware. And it's funny
Speaker 3: because my first husband, who I wrote, you know, I
Speaker 3: have the whole story about how I met him. I
Speaker 3: really did calling in the one just for myself because
Speaker 3: I was not winning in this game of love at all,
Speaker 3: and I'd been on a ceiling transformative journey for so
Speaker 3: many years that I said, Okay, okay, let me just
Speaker 3: figure this one out. And I did it for myself,
Speaker 3: and I manifest this great relationship with this wonderful man
Speaker 3: who is now officially my husband. And so he was
Speaker 3: the inspiration for this book and for conscious uncoupling. But
Speaker 3: he was very intuitive. It was really interesting when I
Speaker 3: was writing the book. He's kind of an intuitive person.
Speaker 3: He meditates a lot and stuff. And he used to
Speaker 3: always say to me, Catherine, I don't think this book
Speaker 3: is really going to find its true home for at
Speaker 3: least twenty years. Wow, isn't that amazing? Ha out brush
Speaker 3: is Yeah.
Speaker 2: He knew, Catherine, You've built a career on teaching others
Speaker 2: how to cultivate love. After your first marriage ended, how
Speaker 2: did you pick up the pieces and how did it
Speaker 2: change your view of love?
Speaker 3: You know, I think that We've all been really inside
Speaker 3: of the happily ever after myth so much. It's such
Speaker 3: a deep archetype in all of our psychees. I mean,
Speaker 3: I really had this horrible pattern of unavailable people, married men,
Speaker 3: engaged men, alcoholics, you know, workaholics, any size, shape form,
Speaker 3: you know, of impossible loves. And it really was so painful,
Speaker 3: and here I am, you know, trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3: I ended up going to graduate school to become a therapist.
Speaker 3: I'm so knee deep. But then I become like a
Speaker 3: good therapist for people who are in relationship, and I'm
Speaker 3: coming home to my empty apartment, you know, night after
Speaker 3: night with my little kitty cat Clover. So that felt
Speaker 3: really unfair. So I figured this out for myself and
Speaker 3: manifest this wonderful miracle, had a baby at the age
Speaker 3: of forty three, then wrote a book. It became a
Speaker 3: national bestseller. Then I was teaching everyone. I mean, it
Speaker 3: was such a great I mean, Disney could not have
Speaker 3: done any better with this story. And then a decade
Speaker 3: in it became clear to both of us that the
Speaker 3: marriage needed to transition and that we weren't right for
Speaker 3: each other anymore. And mostly it was me just having
Speaker 3: kind of outgrown the marriage in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: But so at the time it was quite and I
Speaker 3: really thought my career might have been over, you know.
Speaker 3: But the truth is is that I've always been a
Speaker 3: person who's kind of hungry for truth and hungry for contribution.
Speaker 3: I always want to pay forward any kind of ounce
Speaker 3: of wisdom that I get. So I had to give up, though,
Speaker 3: you know, this idea of myself as this big teacher
Speaker 3: and choose truth. But I do remember the day that
Speaker 3: I realized this was going to happen. I actually drove
Speaker 3: to a park and I lay down on the grass
Speaker 3: and I just looked up to the sky and I
Speaker 3: prayed the only prayer that made sense to me at
Speaker 3: the time, which was, are you fing kidding me?
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's the best prayer.
Speaker 1: What did you have to talk about letting go when
Speaker 1: you were calling in your husband? What was the thing
Speaker 1: you had to let go of?
Speaker 3: So there were a lot of things that were keeping
Speaker 3: me anchored in the past that I hadn't really noticed before.
Speaker 3: One of them is something I call old agreements. These
Speaker 3: are the agreements maybe you make with yourself, like I'm
Speaker 3: never going to get hurt like that again, or an
Speaker 3: agreement that you made with a former partner, I will
Speaker 3: never love anyone more than I love you. It might
Speaker 3: be vows you made in front of a priest before God,
Speaker 3: or it might be even a misguided loyalty you have
Speaker 3: with your mother who was always unhappy in love and
Speaker 3: you kind of you don't really want to go off
Speaker 3: and be happy in love and leave her alone. So
Speaker 3: these kind of very very deep agreements we might have
Speaker 3: made that we completely forgot about. So when I was
Speaker 3: doing this meditation of trying on that possible future, really
Speaker 3: stretching myself to imagine who I might be inside of
Speaker 3: a future that I never had, and I remembered. Now
Speaker 3: now I'm in my early forties when I'm doing this,
Speaker 3: but I remembered I had a high school boyfriend named
Speaker 3: Frank that I love with all my heart, and we
Speaker 3: were in love the way a Romeo Juliet kind of,
Speaker 3: you know, that impassioned teenage love. We were together for
Speaker 3: three and a half years. We were secretly engaged to
Speaker 3: be married, but when I turned eighteen, I wanted to
Speaker 3: go to college. He wanted to go in his family's business.
Speaker 3: It was just our our lives were not on track
Speaker 3: for being together. So it was quite traumatic and very dramatic.
Speaker 3: And I was a bit of a drama queen back then,
Speaker 3: not like I'm not now, but I was. I am too,
Speaker 3: And I said to him, well, let's part ways now,
Speaker 3: but when we're in our sixties, we'll get together again
Speaker 3: and we'll marry then. Now. Of course, you know, somehow
Speaker 3: it made me feel better, but he didn't listen to
Speaker 3: it at all. He married the next person and started
Speaker 3: having his family, so our relationship just kind of got torn,
Speaker 3: just wrenched apart. So here I am something years later.
Speaker 3: I'm still dreaming about him. I'm still wondering if he
Speaker 3: ever thinks of me, you know. And he's still like
Speaker 3: the gold standard of love, right my high school sweetheart
Speaker 3: who nobody is ever measuring up to. So I realized
Speaker 3: I need to actually complete this agreement, and I call
Speaker 3: him into meditation and I apologize for hurting him. I
Speaker 3: tell him I'm not going to keep that agreement. I
Speaker 3: cry in my tissues and I'm done with it by
Speaker 3: the time I get off my cushion, and I felt liberated.
Speaker 3: And the funny thing about that story is is that
Speaker 3: then I go and I meet Mark we get married
Speaker 3: for my Fabulous Life, Calling The One is Out. A
Speaker 3: mutual friend reads the book, recognizes who Frank is, calls
Speaker 3: Frank up and tells him that I wrote this book
Speaker 3: and he's in the book. So I'm talking to Frank
Speaker 3: on the phone. He connected us and he's confessing to
Speaker 3: me that he dreamt about me for years too.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I said, well, when did they stop? And he
Speaker 3: thought for a moment, he said, eight years ago.
Speaker 1: It's the cord.
Speaker 3: It was the core.
Speaker 1: There's an invisible court. Yes, and you have to cut
Speaker 1: it because if you feel it, I really deeply believe
Speaker 1: the other person feels it too.
Speaker 3: They do.
Speaker 2: How do you define the one? It sounds like you
Speaker 2: believe that everyone has more than one, though one out there.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I do define that for people, okay.
Speaker 3: I mean there's obviously things that we're looking for, which
Speaker 3: is the experience of being safe, the experience of being
Speaker 3: seen and supported, the experience of love that can grow
Speaker 3: with you. You're definitely looking for shared values and shared vision,
Speaker 3: which is not like a perfect man much. But I
Speaker 3: think it's important to also remind people that even the
Speaker 3: best relationships have areas of incompatibility that are pretty severe.
Speaker 3: You know, you're a morning person, they're a night person.
Speaker 3: Or you know you have a fast rhythm and they
Speaker 3: have a very slow rhythm. You like it hot, they
Speaker 3: like it cold. I mean, there's just it. It's pretty consistent.
Speaker 1: I had a therapist say to me one time, when
Speaker 1: you pick your person, you pick your problem, and you
Speaker 1: have to decide if you're okay with that problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, really good relationships require that both people have
Speaker 3: good character, that both people are available for commitment, and
Speaker 3: that both people have developed certain capacities to build trust.
Speaker 3: Because love is unconditional, but relationships are not. Relationships require trust,
Speaker 3: and that means thing like keeping your word or having
Speaker 3: the humility to own your mistakes and make amends when
Speaker 3: you move forward. The ability to say no, to tolerate
Speaker 3: disappointing your partner when no is the right answer for you,
Speaker 3: to stay true to yourself and not abandon yourself. That's
Speaker 3: actually protecting love. The ability to hear someone else say
Speaker 3: no and set a limit and not withdraw or punish them.
Speaker 3: So those are the things that create trust, and that's
Speaker 3: what's going to help a relationship to actualize its potentials.
Speaker 3: So I'm more looking for those three things then, And
Speaker 3: I think I think we're very top heavy with charisma
Speaker 3: right now in our CULTUREZ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a good solve for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you have one? You go for it.
Speaker 1: So I used to be attracted to charisma and it
Speaker 1: landed me in a relationship with a Perton that it
Speaker 1: was just really not for me, and a therapist taught
Speaker 1: me to think about it in this way. Is this
Speaker 1: the kind of charism when you meet somebody? Is this
Speaker 1: the kind of charisma that you'd want your hypothetical future
Speaker 1: son to have. Are you proud that this is the
Speaker 1: person that you birthed and parented that is walking out
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: The answer to that is yes, it's a good type
Speaker 1: of charisma. And if the answer is no, it's an
Speaker 1: insecure charisma.
Speaker 3: Charisma to me, when it's pointed outward so that everybody shines,
Speaker 3: is beautiful. If it's charisma, that's just about kind of
Speaker 3: you know, me, me, me, I'm the center of attention.
Speaker 3: That's the one we want to be suspicious of. So
Speaker 3: when it comes to love, though, it's the revaluing of character, right,
Speaker 3: good character?
Speaker 2: Okay, I have to ask the obvious because we've seen
Speaker 2: the success stories all over TikTok and Instagram. But it
Speaker 2: can't all the time. There's got to be there have
Speaker 2: to be people out there who've tried this and maybe
Speaker 2: they didn't find the love of their life in that
Speaker 2: seven weeks, or maybe it took longer, or maybe they're
Speaker 2: still looking for that person. So what would you say
Speaker 2: about the times where it hasn't worked. Is it something
Speaker 2: that maybe the person isn't doing right throughout this course
Speaker 2: or something that they're missing in the course.
Speaker 3: It could be, it could be. And then on the
Speaker 3: other hand, you know, there's different parts of us that
Speaker 3: you know might want to be single for a while.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of value to it. So
Speaker 3: calling in the one is not about devaluing the beauty
Speaker 3: of choosing to go deeper on your own journey, and
Speaker 3: sometimes you know it's that and sometimes well, first of all,
Speaker 3: calling in the one, even though it's seven weeks to
Speaker 3: attract the love of your life is a bit gimmicky really,
Speaker 3: but you know, because it's really about seven weeks to
Speaker 3: be your best self who's ready and a choice? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: And and if I have someone come into my office,
Speaker 3: and say, Okay, are you're going to promise me? Guarantee
Speaker 3: me eleven seven weeks? I say no, right, we probably
Speaker 3: should work together because I'm not going to. But it
Speaker 3: does get you into the consciousness of the recognition that
Speaker 3: you do indeed have the power to do this, that
Speaker 3: you're worthy of this. But one of the last lessons
Speaker 3: in week seven is about how to relate to disappointments.
Speaker 3: So usually in the face of disappointments, we kind of
Speaker 3: collapse into a see it's not going to work for
Speaker 3: me because I really am fated to be.
Speaker 2: Alone those old patterns again.
Speaker 3: Yes, it comes right up. We're not you know, when
Speaker 3: you're talking about the old beliefs, I'm not an advocate
Speaker 3: to get rid of them. I'm just an advotation to
Speaker 3: get them out of the driver's seat and get them
Speaker 3: buckled up safely in the back seat. And you know,
Speaker 3: make sure that the adult, competent wise self, the strongest
Speaker 3: part of you, is actually running the show here. So
Speaker 3: it's about being able to make empowered. Meaning of the disappointments,
Speaker 3: What am I learning? How am I being given an
Speaker 3: opportunity to do this differently this time so that you're
Speaker 3: constantly able now to generate possibility for yourself.
Speaker 1: You so generously brought Simone and I a copy of
Speaker 1: your book, and I said to you, I have a
Speaker 1: little resistance to reading your book. What does that mean?
Speaker 3: That's actually a really common experience, And generally the first
Speaker 3: place I explore is what the ambivalence is about having
Speaker 3: someone in your life, right, Because that's generally it's going
Speaker 3: to be. I'm not really safe. I don't trust myself
Speaker 3: to not give too much of myself away or to
Speaker 3: get distracted from what it is I'm committed to. So
Speaker 3: what calling in the one can do, though, is you
Speaker 3: might actually set an intention to be complete with your
Speaker 3: old stories in love and really only sourcing relationships from
Speaker 3: the strongest and wisest, healthiest part of you. That would
Speaker 3: be a really good intention to set.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then it makes it less scary to do
Speaker 3: the work because it's not like your person is right there.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: That sounds like something that could apply to our friendships too.
Speaker 2: What do you think are the overlapping qualities between miraculous
Speaker 2: romantic relationships and miraculous platonic relationships? Oh?
Speaker 3: I love that. I think that romantic relationships engage a
Speaker 3: more primitive part of us, because there's something about going
Speaker 3: down to touch and sexuality that kind of brings us
Speaker 3: right down into the core of our original bonding. And
Speaker 3: if the bonding patterns were untrustworthy. You know, you're an infant.
Speaker 3: You feel like you're going to die if you don't
Speaker 3: get food, you don't get water, You're uncomfortable, your belly hurts,
Speaker 3: your diapers are dirty. You know, it's it's pretty severe.
Speaker 3: The risks are pretty high. You don't really know if
Speaker 3: someone's coming or not. So a lot of us, you know,
Speaker 3: we kind of engage that more primitive relational trauma in
Speaker 3: those early relationships because of the closeness of the connection.
Speaker 3: So that's not to say we are at the effect
Speaker 3: of that. It's really to say that we can build
Speaker 3: a relationship with that younger self and the awareness of
Speaker 3: what our projections are, what our assumptions are in any
Speaker 3: given moment, and it's easier to do than we think.
Speaker 3: You know, we think of the subconscious as this big,
Speaker 3: mysterious thing and we have to you know, meditate for
Speaker 3: years in a cave. But I don't think realistic. You do,
Speaker 3: I Alaska, there you go.
Speaker 1: Heartbreak has totally changed me. When people tell me they
Speaker 1: haven't been heartbroken, I almost feel badly because I think
Speaker 1: a huge part of the human experience and being in
Speaker 1: love has really changed me. I am so curious as
Speaker 1: to the greatest lesson that you've learned in love.
Speaker 3: Oh that's beautiful, that love is not something to find
Speaker 3: but to constantly generate and create. You know, when I
Speaker 3: look back on my first marriage with this really beautiful
Speaker 3: man Mark, I was the one that kind of drifted
Speaker 3: out of the marriage. I got very preoccupied with my
Speaker 3: work and I didn't really scoop him in. I assumed
Speaker 3: that because we were married, we were together, and I
Speaker 3: hadn't yet developed the skill of creating togetherness and making
Speaker 3: sure that I always was including him in the growth
Speaker 3: that I was experiencing. So that was a big learning
Speaker 3: for me that it wasn't just about getting married read
Speaker 3: or getting the ring, that actually a marriage is just
Speaker 3: the container for the real relationship to now be created.
Speaker 3: So constant gestures of kindness, generosity, you know, going the
Speaker 3: extra mile for someone just to keep creating and generating love.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's true with our friendships, with
Speaker 3: our family, you know, and to be future focused. Where
Speaker 3: are we going, what are we wanting to create other
Speaker 3: than this, and let that begin to inform how we're
Speaker 3: showing up.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to go back and re listen to
Speaker 2: this interview because you dropped so many gems throughout this conversation.
Speaker 2: My jaw is just on the floor and there are
Speaker 2: just so many beautiful takeaways and ideas that I want
Speaker 2: to keep reabsorbing and applying to my life. So thank you.
Speaker 3: You're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: You've shared so much with us, You share so much
Speaker 1: of yourself with the world. Thank you. That's it for
Speaker 1: today's show. Tomorrow, we're making Money Moves with Alexavon Tobol.
Speaker 1: She's founder of learn Vest and Inspired Capital and the
Speaker 1: author of a new book that teaches kids, especially girls,
Speaker 1: to be absolutely fearless about money. It's called Money Matters,
Speaker 1: a Guide to Saving, spending and everything in between.
Speaker 2: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Simone Boys.
Speaker 2: You can find me at Simone Boice on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram. And TikTok that's ro ba.
Speaker 2: Y see you tomorrow, Folks, keep looking on the bright side.