1 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello, Jonathan. 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, is everything okay? 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 3: Uh? 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: Huh? 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 4: To what do I owe this? 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: This pleasure? I'm reporting this week's episode. 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: I don't know why I said it was such trepidation 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: in my voice. I am yeah you are. Every episode needs. 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 3: What you got to have the theme music? 11 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, even before that. 12 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 3: Oh, I know what you're getting at the cold open where. 13 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: You call someone trying to live their life, like your 14 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: friend Jackie Cohen, and ask them a bunch of stuff 15 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: that they don't have the time or interest in answering. 16 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 3: I see what's going on. 17 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: The tables have turned. See how you like being called 18 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: out of the blue, asked a bunch of questions? 19 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: Do you like it? 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 5: Oh? 21 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: You like it? Do you like it? If I start 22 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: saying like what do you like better? Lollipops or gum? 23 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 4: Why too? 24 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: I've alreat had a small hat on with that endear 25 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: you to it? 26 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 4: Oh? Definitely. 27 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: If you were a dog, what do you think your 28 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: name would be? 29 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: Probably the same name, Jonathan Goldstein. 30 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: Do you remember that time that you referred to George 31 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Clooney as the gray haired doctor from er I did. 32 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 4: No idea? 33 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: Yeah you did, Yes, you did. You were like who's 34 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: that gray haired doctor from R And I was like 35 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: George Clooney and you were. 36 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I guess the thing that we're learning from 37 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 3: this is I like being Jackie Cohen. 38 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: From Gimlet Media. I'm Khalila Holt and this is Heavyweight 39 00:01:39,920 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: Today's episode Frederick J. Brown right after the break. Every 40 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: Friday night during the pandemic, I'd get on a Google 41 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: hangout with a group of my boyfriend's friends and we'd 42 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: all play Mario kartlind you, how did you see spread? 43 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 4: Again? There's no PAM six races. 44 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: These Mario Kart sessions started back in the days when 45 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: we could barely leave the house due to COVID restrictions, 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: so it felt like an escape to log on to 47 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: carelessly karine in a small car or kart if you will, 48 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: through a gold mine or off a waterfall. In those 49 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: dark days, a few minutes on Mount Warrio was the 50 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: closest thing I could get to a vacation, right, let's 51 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: be bad. That being said, I also found these Mario 52 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: Kart hangouts deeply intimidating because I'm not good at Mario Kart. 53 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: My gameplay mostly sounds like this no or this along 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: with the Mario karting, there was also non Mario chatting. 55 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 4: Oh I'm happy sat on Instagram, Happy Believe Birthday. 56 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: And chatting of any kind is another thing I'm not 57 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: good at. Every so often I'd weigh in with something 58 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: like pretty crazy. This was essentially the extent of my 59 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: engagement until the night Maya told us about the painting. 60 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: Maya found the painting sitting in a pile of trash 61 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk, and it grabbed her instantly. It was 62 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: only later, when she took it home that she saw 63 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: the artist's signature, Frederick J. Brown. Although Maya works in art, 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: the name was unfamiliar to her, so she googled him, 65 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: and what popped up was a lengthy New York Times 66 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: obituary from twenty twelve, praising Brown's work and citing Williem 67 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: Dakooning as an early mentor. Brown, it turned out, was 68 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: an acclaimed black artist known for his portraits of jazz 69 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: and blues musicians. He had work in the Smithsonian. As 70 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: Maya made her way his biography, she slowly realized that 71 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: the painting she'd been so instinctively drawn to was actually 72 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: the work of an important artist, and so Maya was 73 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: left wondering, how did Brown's painting end up in the trash? Oh, 74 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: very regal building on a cold Friday afternoon. I pay 75 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: Maya visit her Brooklyn apartment building to follow up and 76 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: learn more. And who knows, maybe my boyfriend's friend can 77 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: simply become a friend. 78 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 4: Oh, very like regal building. 79 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: I feel like. 80 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: My irl chatting is truly no better than my Mario 81 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: Kart chatting saying here else it is. 82 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 83 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: What I couldn't see on the small square of our 84 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: Mario Kart calls was that every surface of Maya's apartment 85 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: is covered in art. Not only has Maya worked in 86 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: the art world for many years at galleries art publishers, 87 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: her husband, Wes, is also an artist himself. He even 88 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: proposed to Maya on the steps of the met There's 89 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: really only one spot in their apartment that's empty, a 90 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: blank wall above the couch. They'd been waiting year after 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: year for the perfect work of art to hang there, 92 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: and now with the discovery of the Frederick J. Brown painting, 93 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: they knew they'd found it. Maya says she spotted the 94 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: painting while heading home from a COVID test. It was gigantic, 95 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: and she still had a mile to walk. She knew 96 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: it didn't really make sense to take it with her, 97 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: but she couldn't walk away from it either. 98 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 5: I just kept going back to it. It just was 99 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 5: different from all of the other paintings I've seen. It 100 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 5: just really kind of grabbed me, and I started trying 101 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 5: to get it out of the trash. 102 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: Clutching the huge painting to her body. Mayawardly waddled the 103 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: mile home. 104 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 5: There's like a little garbage juice at the bottom and 105 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 5: a little dust at the top, and I was walking. 106 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: I wouldn't let it sit on the ground. 107 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 5: I know I had probably been on the street all day, 108 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 5: but I didn't want it to be on the street anymore. 109 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 5: It is nearly as long as I am tall, and 110 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 5: I'm five four, lots of color and patterns. 111 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: Despite my fondness for the audio medium, it fails to 112 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: translate the force of Brown's painting. It's not as easily 113 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: encapsulated as say the Mona Lisa Smiling Woman or American 114 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: Gothic unsmiling woman and man. It's mostly abstract, but then 115 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: there are these tiny spots with recognizable figures. 116 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 5: You can see faces and there's these horizontal bands that 117 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 5: sort of organize the composition. 118 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: Admiring the painting with makes me feel like I'm at 119 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: a fancy party, enjoying or jerves, but also panicked that 120 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: I have nothing intelligent to say that kind OFT's like 121 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: a seven. The painting feels like a stained glass cabinet 122 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: full of curios. It feels like a quilt if a 123 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: quilt weren't made of fabric, but a fields and buildings 124 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: and people rushing to work. It feels like a packed 125 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: room where everybody's dancing. I asked Maya to show me 126 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: where she first found the painting, and so we hit 127 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: the streets to return to the scene of the trash. 128 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: So we walk, Yeah, let's walk. We take a walk, 129 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: as friends often do. Maya tells me the painting was 130 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: in the trash with a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff, 131 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: a TJ Max planter, a stained toy chest. Whoever disposed 132 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: of it was probably moving. Maybe a neighbor can tell 133 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: us who might have moved in the last couple months. 134 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: But whereas I was picturing a small building with just 135 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: a few buzzers, it turns out the trash heap was 136 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: actually in front of a public housing complex fourteen stories high, 137 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: taking up a whole block. We loiter by the building's 138 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: entrance and I try to catch people as they're going 139 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: in or out. Can I ask you something weird and 140 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: ask you a weird question? Anyone who moved out? Like 141 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: in it's just about a painting that was left outside 142 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: of painting. Some my friend found a painting and she's 143 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like what the deal is. Nobody 144 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: knows anything. No, all right, thank you, no, thank you? No, 145 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: all right, thank you. There's a lot I don't understand 146 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: about art, like why are frames so expensive? But I 147 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: can tell you this. Paintings. They have two sides. There's 148 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: a side with all the paint on it that people 149 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: are always tripping over each other to talk about. But 150 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: then there's the other side, the second or backside. If 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: you will, do you want a water tear or anything? 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: Water would be great. And back in Maya's apartment, she 153 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: explains that on this backside, or dari are side, there's 154 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: another clue. She and West were cleaning the painting off, 155 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: getting it ready to hang on the wall when they 156 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: saw it. Lightly scrawled on the back of the canvas 157 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: was an inscription. 158 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: Painted nineteen seventy nine December title Genesis two Love Happy 159 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: Birthday from Frederick to Lowry Simms, and then he signed 160 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: it and dated it in nineteen seventy nine. 161 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: Maya may not have known the name Frederick Brown, but 162 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: she knew the name Lowry Simms quite well. Larry was 163 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: the president of the Studio Museum in Harlem, and before 164 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: that she'd been the first black curator at the Metropolitan 165 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: Museum of Art. She's now in her seventies and has 166 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: had dec it's of impact on the art world. She's 167 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: reached living legend status. 168 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 5: You can't help but be like, oh, okay, yeah, should 169 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 5: I have not used a paper towel to clean this? 170 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: The way Maya sees it, if you find something with 171 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: someone else's name on it, whether that's a wallet, a cat, 172 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: or a painting, you try to give it back to them. 173 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: And so she wants to return the painting to its 174 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: rightful owner, Lowry Simms. And once we find her, maybe 175 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: Lowry can help piece together how the painting ended up 176 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: in the garbage. I would like love to help try 177 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: and get in touch with this person. 178 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 2: Yes, please, okay? 179 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: My garbage hunting an abject failure but my people hunting 180 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: that's going to be an abject success. I can't find 181 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: an email address for Lowry. So I do what we 182 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: all do when we want to pester someone more important 183 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: than we are. I send a message on LinkedIn. I 184 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: explain that I have a painting I think belongs to her, 185 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: but perhaps fearing I'm running some sort of con where 186 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: I trade paintings for Social Security numbers, Lowry doesn't respond, HI, 187 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: how are you I need some sort of inroad? So 188 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: I contact an artist named Chloe Bass, who's worked with Lowry. 189 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 5: I don't know why she would even need LinkedIn, how 190 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 5: it's like her career is very well stablished. 191 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: Chloe is also confused by how the painting ended up 192 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: in the trash. She says Lowry can't have been the 193 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 1: one to throw it away because Lowry doesn't live in 194 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: Brooklyn and never has. Chloe agrees to reach out to 195 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: her on my behalf and now that the request isn't 196 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: coming from Rando on LinkedIn, but Randa, who knows Chloe Bass, 197 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: Lowry responds, we have a few back and forths of 198 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: her email. I'm hoping to schedule a time for us 199 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: to talk on the phone, but Lowry is reluctant. She 200 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: tells me she's doesn't want to talk unless she can 201 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: see a photo of the painting first. So I send 202 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: her a photo, saying I'd be curious if she recognizes 203 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: Genesis Too, and equally curious if she doesn't. Who knows. 204 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: Maybe Brown's gift of the painting never even reached her. 205 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: The next morning, Lowry writes back quote intriguing period. That 206 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: is the extent of her email, and after that our 207 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: correspondence comes to a halt. Intriguing period. What did Lowry 208 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: Simms's email mean. It's not the response you'd expect of 209 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: someone recognizing a beloved, long lost painting. I start to 210 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: wonder if maybe the painting is a fake. Genesis Too 211 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: doesn't look like any of the other Frederick Brown paintings 212 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: I've seen online. Maybe Lowry's intriguing means an intriguing forgery. 213 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: So I contact Frederick Brown's trust. I figure they'll know 214 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: best if the painting's really his, and five days later 215 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: I get confirmation that the painting is legit. I receive 216 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: a call from a man named Bentley, who teaches at 217 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: Fordham and is a PhD candidate at the NYU Institute 218 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 1: of Fine Arts. Bentley is also it turns out, Frederick J. 219 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: Brown's son. 220 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: So here's the backstory. Yeah, the painting is part of 221 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 3: a larger painting called Genesis. Okay, that's in the collection 222 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 3: of the MET. 223 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: Oh, whoa, I didn't know that. 224 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 3: So my dad became the youngest artist to be in 225 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 3: the collection of the MET at that time. I get 226 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: thirty three. Geez, let's say that. Actually thirty four okay, 227 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: and like on top of that, right as a black artist, 228 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: right this deal? So Part one is at the MET. 229 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: Part one in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Part two 230 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: in a trash heap on a Brooklyn sidewalk. Bentley can't 231 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: wait to see his father's painting in person, so he 232 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: makes the drive from the Bronx to Maya's apartment in Brooklyn. 233 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: Hi. 234 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: And I'm hoping maybe Bentley will have insight into how 235 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: his dad's painting ended up in the trash. Should we 236 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: look at this painting and then maybe we can talk. 237 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: We all file into the living room, where Maya and 238 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: her husband West have propped the painting up against a 239 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: wall for Bentley to look at. Bentley takes it in. 240 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 3: This is amazing it's just like, this makes me so happy. 241 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: He's it's your first time. 242 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never seen this. 243 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: Bentley's dedicated years of his life to his father's work, 244 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: but he can't tell me how the painting ended up 245 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: in the trash. Before I reached out, he hadn't even 246 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: known Genesis Too existed. He bends down to get a 247 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: closer look. 248 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 3: He didn't just stumble upon any piece within his catalog. 249 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 3: He stumbled upon a extremely important piece. 250 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: It turns out the Genesis two was painted at the 251 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: moment when Brown was making a transition. That's why it 252 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: looks so different than anything else I'd seen online. Brown 253 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: was moving away from abstraction and towards more figurative work. 254 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: So among the shapes and lines, you see faces, an 255 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: airplane and the fox figure, and it's like a self portrait. 256 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 5: Do you know why your dad chose fox as a 257 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 5: symbol of representation. 258 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: That's a good question. You have to be a fox 259 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: to survive in the art world as a black man, 260 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 3: have to be. Everybody looks at the fox as like 261 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 3: like a nefarious sort of character, right, But my dad 262 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: kind of looked at it as like, nah, that's just 263 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: like that's just a cad that has to do whatever 264 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 3: it has to do to survive. 265 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: Bentley tells us about his dad's life, about Frederick Brown's 266 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: childhood on the South Side of Chicago, how Brown's dad 267 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: managed to juke joint, hanging around blues musicians like Muddy Waters. 268 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: Early on, color made a strong impression on Brown. He 269 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: grew up mixing paint for the luxury cars his uncle 270 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: worked on. Later, Brown found work in the steel mills, 271 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: the colors of the hot metal burning their way into 272 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: his mind. 273 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 3: Because he'd always talked about how like bright orange the 274 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: ingots were. You can see the bright orange in there. 275 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: Brown attended college in Illinois and eventually moved to New York, 276 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: where he set up shop in a huge loft on 277 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: Worcester Street and soho other artists and musicians were always 278 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: stopping by, for Mayor Bearden, BB King, John Lennon, and 279 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: Yoko Ono. The Western Street loft is where Brown painted Genesis. 280 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: So then after that he signed with Marlboro Gallery, and 281 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 3: so that was a big deal because Marlboro Gallery was 282 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: the hottest gallery at that time. We talk about like 283 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 3: Basqueiacht being the first black artist to sort of make 284 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: that break. It was really my dad, like, I'm not 285 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 3: even gonna hold you like I'm I'm not going to 286 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: I'm not going to. 287 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: Sugarcoat it, you know. But while Bosquia went on to 288 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: become a household name, selling paintings for millions of dollars, 289 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: Frederick J. Brown did not. So what happened. It turns 290 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: out that even after signing with Marlborough, Brown wasn't being 291 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: shown in the way he thought he should be. 292 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 3: My dad kept trying to get like a retrospective, and 293 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 3: he couldn't get a retrospective anywhere. 294 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: So Brown took matters into his own hands when a 295 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: Taiwanese artist named C. J. Yao invited him to come 296 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: to China. It was nineteen eighty eight and communist China 297 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: was just starting to culturally open up. Only one other 298 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: American artist, Robert Rauschenberg, had shown work in the country. 299 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: But together Brown and Yao decided, let's do a Frederick J. 300 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: Brown retrospective in China. 301 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 3: And they decided to do it in the National Museum 302 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 3: of China, which like is on Tienamen Square and it's 303 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: like an insanely huge building. 304 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: The museum had been filled with relative chairman Mao and 305 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: the Communist revolution. But all that was cleared out to 306 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: make room for one hundred Frederick J. Brown paintings, and. 307 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 3: He had a lot. I mean he had sixty thousand 308 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: people a day for like thirty days. 309 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: Wow. 310 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 3: He had to go to China to have a red. 311 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: He had to go to China to be seen as 312 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 3: an American. 313 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: Artist because in America, Brown was seen as a black artist. 314 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: And despite what he accomplished in China, when he returned 315 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: to the States, he hadn't earned any additional prestige. 316 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 3: Instead, Marlborough was pissed that he did the show because 317 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: they did it without his without their consent. He took 318 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: out a loan to do it himself of half a 319 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: million dollars. He had no way of paying it back. 320 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 3: So that was like the beginning of I don't want 321 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 3: to say the end, but it was the beginning of 322 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 3: like a real hardship. 323 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: Marlborough dropped him. The bank was trying to take all 324 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: his work, which he'd put up as collateral. He was 325 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: only able to save some paintings by erasing his name 326 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: entirely so the bank would think they weren't his. Other 327 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: paintings he hid in the walls of his Worcester Street loft. 328 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: Brown continued to paint for the rest of his life, 329 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: but he never regained that blue trip cachet from his 330 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: early career. He didn't become a name that a non 331 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: art person like me, or even an art person like 332 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: Maya would immediately recognize. Brown died of cancer in twenty twelve, 333 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: and ten years later, Bentley's frustrated that his father still 334 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have his rightful place in the cannon. 335 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 3: You go up to these people that are gatekeepers and 336 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 3: you plead your case. Most people are just like, whatever, 337 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 3: there's not a market for it right now, right, and 338 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 3: it's like it's like, man, fuck you. 339 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: It's the same story for a lot of black artists. Sure, 340 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: these gatekeepers want black art, Bentley says, but they want 341 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: a particular kind of black art. They want art they 342 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: can look at and go, ah, yes, I get it. 343 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: This is about the politics of being black in America. 344 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: When we think about black art or black artists, right, 345 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: we are very quick to add like a political tag 346 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 3: to the thing. I mean, I guess you could argue 347 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 3: that blackness in and of itself is a political thing. 348 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 3: But my dad was kind of much more of the 349 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: camp of like just like make art for art's. 350 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: Sake, but purely aesthetic work by a black artist. That's 351 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: what ends up in the garbage. 352 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 3: It's such a painful feeling. It's such a yeah, painful 353 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 3: is the word, And such a painful feeling when you 354 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: know that, like you have such a special world and 355 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 3: people don't give a shit. 356 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 4: What is I mean? 357 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: Like if you have to describe, like what what that 358 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: special world was? 359 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 2: Like? 360 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: What how would you explain it? Bentley points of the 361 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: painting still leaning against the wall? 362 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 3: Is that right there? So much color, so much emotion, 363 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 3: so much beauty. You two recognized it. 364 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: The beanting definitely called to me. 365 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you rescued it right like, and it's 366 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 3: like a piece of my dad. It's like his energy, 367 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 3: his spirit is him. You know that was my dad 368 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 3: calling out to you. That's what that was. You're like, yeah, 369 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 3: let me go in the trash. My son lives not 370 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: too far away. Don't let me go in the trash. 371 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: Well, Bentley was able to trace the path that led 372 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: Frederick Brown's work to the metaphorical trash heap. I'm still 373 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: wondering about the literal trash heap, the one on a 374 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: Brooklyn sidewalk, and so, of course I'm still wondering about 375 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: Larry Simms. It turns out Bentley knows Lowry well. The 376 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: two are even writing a book together. When I ask 377 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: Bentley about Lowry's aversion to speaking with me, he alludes 378 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: to some bad experiences she's had with journalists, but he 379 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: reassures me that he'll put in a good word. And 380 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: the next morning, Bentley calls to tell me that Lowry 381 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: is willing to talk. There's just one caveat. She doesn't 382 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: want to discuss how the painting wound up in the garbage. 383 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to figure out why. And I 384 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: don't really know how to do an interview about a 385 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: painting that ended up in the trash without asking how 386 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: the painting ended up in the trash. So I crossed 387 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: my fingers that something might shift. Once we're on the phone, 388 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: Larry takes my call from her condo in Baltimore. She 389 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: tells me that she met Frederick Brown when she was 390 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: around thirty, a newly minted curator at the Met. As 391 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: a curator, Lowry's mission was to champion the work of 392 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: overlooked artists. Lowry herself knew what it was like to 393 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: be overlooked. 394 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 4: I mean, I was in, you know, as this black 395 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 4: girl from Queens. I had a career nobody would have 396 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 4: expected at that time. I was in places where nobody 397 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 4: expected at the time. I mean I used to tell people. 398 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 4: One of the most amusing things for me was to 399 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 4: go to a collector on Park Avenue in the seventies 400 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 4: and get to the front door, and the doorman would 401 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 4: try to sort of scoop me around to the service 402 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 4: entrance because they assumed I was a housekeeper or something, 403 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 4: you know, and new I'm, you know, from the Metropolitan Museum. 404 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 4: You sort to see that the face change, you know, 405 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 4: they go, oh. 406 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 3: You know. 407 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 4: It was a struggle to get past the ignorance about 408 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 4: black artists. 409 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: Like once in the seventies Lowry organized an exhibit of 410 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: black art from the METS collection. 411 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 4: And when we got the exhibition up, I was approached 412 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 4: by a journalist and said, I didn't even know they. 413 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: Were black artists. 414 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 4: Now this is like nineteen seventy nine. Come on, jeez, 415 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 4: yeah yeah, yeah, so I said, where we've been around 416 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 4: since the late eighteen hundred. 417 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: Hearing this story, it starts to make sense why Lowry 418 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: might have been reluctant to speak with me, a white 419 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: looking journalist she's never met. In fact, when I spoke 420 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: with Bentley, he said Lowry had wanted him to suss 421 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: me out, to make sure that I was okay, before 422 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: she agreed to talk to me. Like his dad, Bentley said, 423 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: Lowry too has had to be a fox. Larry and 424 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: Brown's friendship endured for decades, starting in that Worcester Street 425 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: loft and lasting until Brown's death, and even after he died, 426 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: Larry continued to engage with Brown's work. Just last summer, 427 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: she helped put together a big posthumous show of his 428 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: art at the Barry Campbell Gallery in Manhattan. Like Bentley, 429 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: she wants Brown to finally get his due. 430 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 4: It's a regional work, you know, it's strong work. I'm 431 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 4: just hopeful that, you know, Frederick gets written into the 432 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 4: you know, the art lexicon in the way that he 433 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: needs to be. 434 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: When I ask Lowry why this hasn't happened yet, like Bentley, 435 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: she cites the aftermath at the China trip, but she 436 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: also offers this, he. 437 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 4: Sort of left New York at a crucial period in 438 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 4: his career, and he put the concerns of his family first. 439 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: And it's true. In the nineties, Brown left New York 440 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: for a town called Carefree, Arizona. A big factor in 441 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: that decision was his daughter's asthma. Brown knew the dry 442 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: desert heat would be good for her, and although money 443 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: was still tight, the family was happy out in Arizona. 444 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: Bentley recalls his dad attending his flag football games in 445 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: his signature White Brooks Brothers suit, sweating in the Arizona 446 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: Son and dabbing his forehead with napkins. Well, some children 447 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: of famous artists remember locked studio doors. Bentley remembers his 448 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: dad's welcoming studio couch, where he'd flopped down after school 449 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: and talk about his day while his father painted. All 450 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: of which is to say Bentley remembers Brown as a 451 00:26:49,760 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: good dad. As Lowry and I talk, I do my 452 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: best to avoid the whole painting and the trash thing. 453 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: So we discussed her time at the met Brown's jazz portraits, 454 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: the similarities between Genesis one and two. But then, without prompting, 455 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: Lowry volunteers this. 456 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 4: I mean, I sort of, like, you know, kind of 457 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 4: figured out that I probably gazed the painting to someone 458 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 4: who admired it. 459 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: You know. 460 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 4: I can't remember who because it you know, because it 461 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 4: was certainly too big for my low apartment. 462 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: As it turns out, Brown had painted Lowry Genesis two 463 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: as a thank you gift because she had been the 464 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: curator who bought Genesis one for the Mets collection. But 465 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: the painting was huge, and Lowry ran into the problem 466 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: that so many New Yorkers do. Living in a cramped 467 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: apartment on the Upper east Side, she just hadn't had 468 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: space for it. For Lowry, there was no blank wall 469 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: above the couch, just waiting for something to be hung. 470 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: So instead she found Genesis two a good home with 471 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: a friend who loved it. 472 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 4: And I think I told Fred, you know, like about 473 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 4: six Yeah, how it ended up with, amya find it? 474 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 4: I don't know. I just can't remember who I might 475 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 4: have given it to. 476 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: I suspect that Lowry might be trying to protect a friend. 477 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: Maybe that's why she'd been reluctant to talk about the 478 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: painting's loss. Maybe Larry gave the painting to someone who 479 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: moved to a smaller apartment themselves, or maybe they died 480 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: or fell on hard times and decided to sell it. 481 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: Maybe it was regifted to someone else, or sold in 482 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: a state sale, or just lost in the general shuffle 483 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: of life. No matter what, the end result is the same. Ultimately, 484 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: someone looked at it thought this isn't worth keeping and 485 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: threw it away. All of that, it seems, was wrapped 486 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: up and Lowry's intriguing. Does it make you sad at 487 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: all to think of art just in the trash like that? 488 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's a saying that ninety eight percent 489 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 4: of all the art created in the world since the 490 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 4: beginning is gone. 491 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: Do you think like the best stuff somehow makes it through? 492 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? 493 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 4: I think it's totally random. Yeah, I mean, I guess 494 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,719 Speaker 4: that's why we have museums, you know, because they can 495 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 4: be seen as places where these things can be safe. 496 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 4: But I mean, just look, it was happening now in 497 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: the Ukraine, you know, the Palming museums and cultural sites. 498 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 4: So I think a lot of times it's just the 499 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 4: luck of the draw. 500 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: Time is the most capricious of curators. A few weeks earlier, 501 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: when Bentley came by Maya's apartment, we all sat around 502 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: and talked for hours about art and family, and finally, 503 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: when it was time to go, Maya turned to Bentley 504 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: and said, I don't think the painting belongs with me. 505 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: I think it belongs somewhere else. Bentley's taller than my 506 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: and had no problem lifting up the canvas. He thanked 507 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: Maya warmly and carried Genesis Too out the door to 508 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: his car. He'd serve as the paintings caretaker until Lowry 509 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: decided what she wanted to do. Can you tell me 510 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: sort of like, what's happening to it now? Do you 511 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: know where it's going? 512 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been accepted by the Studio Museum as a donation. Oh, 513 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 4: that's great, and the donation will be from me, from 514 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 4: the estate of the artists, and from Maya. 515 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,239 Speaker 1: On a warm Friday afternoon, I pay Maya visit her 516 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: regal apartment building. 517 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 3: Hello. 518 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: She and Wes are signing the paperwork to officially donate 519 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: the painting to the Studio Museum, and I'm here to 520 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: serve as a witness. Lowry and Bentley have both already signed. 521 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: Knowing how much Maya loves the painting, I thought giving 522 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: it up would be bittersweet, but she's in high spirits. 523 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: She likes the idea of Genesis Too hanging in a 524 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: museum that way, thousands of people will get to enjoy it. 525 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: We'll lean towards the plaque and read the name Frederick J. Brown. 526 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: Who knows what that name might mean to people in 527 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: the future, if time will strengthen Brown's legacy or wash 528 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: it away. But for now, we finish up the paperwork 529 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: and all cheers a shot at tequila to celebrate, as 530 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: friends often do. 531 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 4: Thank you. 532 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: On my way out, I noticed that the big wall 533 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: above Maya's couch is still blank. 534 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: Now that the furnitures returning to its goodwill. 535 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: Home, Now that the last month's rent is scheming with. 536 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: The damage to pos take this moment to do so. 537 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: If we mint it, if we travel felt around for 538 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: far too from things good accidentally. This episode of Heavyweight 539 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: was produced by me Khalila Holt along with Jonathan Goldstein. 540 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production help from Domiano Marquetti, 541 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, Lydia Polgreen, Mercy Flynn, 542 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: Carl McCool, Caitlin Kenny, and Kayla Lattimore, with extra special 543 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: thanks to Sam Riceman. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with 544 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: original music by Christine Fellows. John K. Sampson, Michael Hurst, 545 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on 546 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: our website, gimlipmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song 547 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: is by The Weaker Dance courtesy of Epitaph Records. Follow 548 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at Heavyweight 549 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: at gimlipmedia dot com. We'll be back next week.