Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: I'm excited to introduce you to today's guests. Usually on
Speaker 1: wok F we do one on ones because I like
Speaker 1: to go in depth with people and frankly, it's easier
Speaker 1: pre you the listener. But today we have a special
Speaker 1: two on one conversation with the hosts of the serial
Speaker 1: podcast Obscured, and I get into conversation with Emily Previty
Speaker 1: and Stephanie Marudis from Kuvenda Media to discuss the first
Speaker 1: season of Obscure, which dives into Folks, I'm going to
Speaker 1: say a phrase that I've never said before, policing trauma,
Speaker 1: those that have been abused and experienced trauma at the
Speaker 1: hands of police. You know, whenever we cover state sanctioned
Speaker 1: violence police brutality on this show, we are often trying
Speaker 1: to humanize the person that was and then became a
Speaker 1: hashtag because of being shot, choked, killed by police officer
Speaker 1: or white vigilante. We never then go back for those
Speaker 1: that maybe didn't die, but were emotionally and physically harmed.
Speaker 1: The effects that that kind of trauma has on larger
Speaker 1: community and just the questioning of our unjust system as
Speaker 1: a whole. And so this series Obscured looks into this
Speaker 1: issue in their first season, because these are two media
Speaker 1: veterans that wanted to bring attention and spotlight issues that
Speaker 1: legacy media leaves behind on the newsroom floor. And so
Speaker 1: they've done a ton of research and a ton of interviews,
Speaker 1: and this conversation really brings to light all that we
Speaker 1: don't know and all of the work that is left
Speaker 1: to be done. So that conversation with the hosts and
Speaker 1: founders of Kuvenda Media, Emily Previty and Stephanie Merude, is
Speaker 1: coming up next, folks. I am very excited to welcome
Speaker 1: to OKF Daily for the first time, the creators and
Speaker 1: hosts behind Obscured by Couvenda Media, a series that dives
Speaker 1: into underreported complex issues often missed in the daily news cycle.
Speaker 1: Their inaugural series, From Words to Weapons, centers on the
Speaker 1: harrowing tales of law enforcement trauma survivors and the intricate
Speaker 1: web of challenges, solutions, and hope and resilience that comes
Speaker 1: along with that. So I am so excited Emily and
Speaker 1: Stephanie to have the both of you on the show
Speaker 1: please so that my listeners can get used to your voices.
Speaker 1: Please introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: your your backgrounds and how you came together in Couvenda Media.
Speaker 2: Danielle, thank you so much for having us today. My
Speaker 2: name is Emily Previty. I'm the co creator and executive
Speaker 2: executive editor. I've obscured and my background is in newspapers originally,
Speaker 2: but then got back to radio. I had gotten into
Speaker 2: journalism initially working for WXPN, which is a music focused
Speaker 2: radio station in Philadelphia, but worked for the morning new
Speaker 2: show when I was an undergraduate, and I was working
Speaker 2: for the Press of Atlantic City covering city hall and
Speaker 2: casinos when Stephanie and I cross paths initially, but then
Speaker 2: you know, several years later, each working for NPR affiliates
Speaker 2: based in Pennsylvania, collaborated with some other journalists on a
Speaker 2: long form podcast series called Grapple, and we really hit
Speaker 2: it off. Felt like our you know, approaches and interests
Speaker 2: were aligned as far as reporting. Stayed in touch. It's
Speaker 2: some side projects together, and I joined Stephanie full time
Speaker 2: at Kuvenda in twenty twenty one to launch Obscured. Awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Danielle for having us on the show. We're
Speaker 3: excited to be here. I'm Stephanie Marutis and I fell
Speaker 3: into journalism accidentally, i'd say after college. I had a
Speaker 3: day job and I started volunteering with a Greek community
Speaker 3: radio station in New York City. I had a show,
Speaker 3: a community affair show, and was the reporter, producer and
Speaker 3: host for a Greek diaspora show. And I really loved it.
Speaker 1: I loved it more than my day job.
Speaker 3: And I decided to make the switch to become a
Speaker 3: public radio reporter and I was fortunate to be able
Speaker 3: to do so. And I first started working at WYPR
Speaker 3: in Baltimore, the NPR affiliate. I grew up in Baltimore,
Speaker 3: and so it was great to be able to report
Speaker 3: on my hometown. And then I made the switch to
Speaker 3: whroy Y in Philadelphia, where we're based, and spent my
Speaker 3: time as a general assignment reporter, you know, covering education, healthcare, immigration,
Speaker 3: and just continued to, you know, try to hone the
Speaker 3: craft as much as possible and got really into oral
Speaker 3: history on the side and reading about personal accounts and
Speaker 3: thinking a lot about how public policy impacts our lives
Speaker 3: flash Forward, went from being a reporter to a producer,
Speaker 3: started working on audio documentaries and eventually did another deep
Speaker 3: dive study into oral history and that really catapulted to
Speaker 3: that really catapulted me to start Covenda Media as a
Speaker 3: production company to produce narratives through social change. And as
Speaker 3: Emily mentioned, we came together on Grapple and uh that was,
Speaker 3: you know, just an extraordinary experience with a wonderful team,
Speaker 3: and then insight into the collaboration with Emily and thinking
Speaker 3: about how could we do this again? And this is
Speaker 3: where we are today day.
Speaker 1: Amazing. I love the background and love the story of
Speaker 1: how the two of you came together. I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, storytelling, particularly around justice issues are incredibly important.
Speaker 1: And what I find is that we get very much
Speaker 1: bogged down by statistics and stories are what turn statistics
Speaker 1: into people and humans with lives and and how those
Speaker 1: policy decisions affect people's day to day lives. I think
Speaker 1: is where we are needing right. We need more of
Speaker 1: that in order to understand why policy matters, like why
Speaker 1: it matters to your day to day life. So let
Speaker 1: me let me ask you this, and and Emily if
Speaker 1: you if you'll kick us off with the response, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, tell us about Obscured and that first season,
Speaker 1: because let me tell you that, when I think about
Speaker 1: all of the names that kind of rattle through my
Speaker 1: head of unarmed black people, children, women who were killed
Speaker 1: by police, when I think about those people that would
Speaker 1: become hashtags that then came from communities, families, you know, schools,
Speaker 1: and the loss that kind of is a ripple effect.
Speaker 1: We don't really ever dig into that kind of trauma
Speaker 1: and the fact that you even named it as you know,
Speaker 1: people who were victimized by police police trauma. Just talk
Speaker 1: to us about that first season and really your why
Speaker 1: behind it.
Speaker 2: So the idea for the first season, well, it had
Speaker 2: been years since I had reported on criminal justice, account
Speaker 2: ability and excessive force, but I had done that before
Speaker 2: and switched medium, switched jobs and beats since then, but
Speaker 2: had really continued to follow the issue and care very
Speaker 2: deeply about it over the years. Wanted to get back
Speaker 2: to that should the opportunity present, and so that was
Speaker 2: in my mind, but we hadn't decided what we were
Speaker 2: going to do, how we were going to focus the
Speaker 2: first season of Obscured. I was researching an episode for
Speaker 2: At the Core of Care, which is a podcast that
Speaker 2: predates my time at Kuvenda with Stephanie, but that she
Speaker 2: has produced with a nursing advocacy organization for years, and
Speaker 2: was researching an episode for that about standardizing sexual assault
Speaker 2: exam procedures. And you know, I came across nurse who
Speaker 2: was on the schedule for a conference for forensic nurses
Speaker 2: specific and the title of her presentation was developing a protocol.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact title off the top of
Speaker 2: my head, but it was about developing the protocol for
Speaker 2: caring for people who were survivors of law enforcement trauma,
Speaker 2: developing a forensic model for doing so. And I asked
Speaker 2: her about that sort of as a warm up, but
Speaker 2: then that's where the conversation went, and it was clear
Speaker 2: to me immediately that her story and her work could
Speaker 2: be part of, if not the focus, of the first season.
Speaker 2: And her name is Maya Anderson. She runs the undergraduate
Speaker 2: and graduate nursing programs at Morgan State University in Baltimore.
Speaker 1: And Stephanie, for you, you know.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 1: Brought you to this being the focus of the first
Speaker 1: season and why was it important to tell this kind
Speaker 1: of again. You know, we see a lot you know,
Speaker 1: I noticed, I don't know if you guys notice, but
Speaker 1: every time there is some type of nationalized uh incident
Speaker 1: involving police, then all of a sudden, my social media
Speaker 1: seems to be flooded with all of these heartwarming videos
Speaker 1: of police showing up in neighborhoods and you know, and
Speaker 1: playing jump rope and doing all of these things. So
Speaker 1: why was it important for you to show that the
Speaker 1: trauma side.
Speaker 3: Yes, thanks for that question. And I think as we
Speaker 3: think about why we're doing obscured in the first place, uh,
Speaker 3: that could help set the stage to help me answer
Speaker 3: the question. Emily and I, you know, spent time uh
Speaker 3: working in legacy media organizations and uh, you know, working
Speaker 3: in the daily news cycle, and you know, we've just
Speaker 3: noticed so many redundancies. You know, you really see the
Speaker 3: same story kind of over and over again, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, your listeners and you and us, you know,
Speaker 3: we're just consumed in content.
Speaker 2: We have a lot of content.
Speaker 3: Coming at us all the time on various platforms, and
Speaker 3: I think as journalist, Emily and I, you know, feel
Speaker 3: committed to being able to report on angles of stories
Speaker 3: that do not often you know, get told in the
Speaker 3: in the coverage that you see in the media, and
Speaker 3: you know, we start to think about, you know, how
Speaker 3: could we help contribute to moving a conversation forward on
Speaker 3: an issue. And I think, as Emily mentioned when she
Speaker 3: spoke with Maya Anderson, you know, that struck us as, Wow,
Speaker 3: that's an angle of this topic we've never heard about.
Speaker 3: You know, that forensic nurse who has seen people present
Speaker 3: in the emergency department who need care and they need
Speaker 3: to have a protocol, uh, you know, and that it's
Speaker 3: it's controversial, and there's a lot of pushback, you know,
Speaker 3: around this, and you know, as she lays out in
Speaker 3: episode seven of our series, and and some of the
Speaker 3: other nurses who are interviewed, you know, it's this dynamic
Speaker 3: of calling the police on the police, and that's really
Speaker 3: hard to do. And so we thought that this is
Speaker 3: a story that needs to be told. And to Emily's credit,
Speaker 3: you know, she spent the last few years digging deep,
Speaker 3: doing a ton of research, developing sources, you know, really
Speaker 3: trying to tell this story that's not told and so
Speaker 3: that fit with our mission of Obscured, and you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's difficult to report, and you know, Emily, you know,
Speaker 3: and I would identify some potential sources and you know,
Speaker 3: try to connect with you know, sources and they might
Speaker 3: be ready to talk, but then in some cases they weren't.
Speaker 3: And we totally get that, and it's a thank you
Speaker 3: for considering the time. You know, we we we understand.
Speaker 3: So it took time to develop trust and and sources.
Speaker 3: And I think in Emily's reporting you can see that
Speaker 3: we took a trauma informed approach. In our narrative episodes.
Speaker 1: The series begins with the story of Jimmy Warren, and
Speaker 1: so I'd love for you to be able to explain
Speaker 1: to the listeners about that case and why you decided
Speaker 1: to start the series with him.
Speaker 2: Sure, so Jimmy Warren's case. If you follow these issues closely,
Speaker 2: you might remember back in twenty sixteen, there was a
Speaker 2: major decision in the fall of that year from the
Speaker 2: Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court that got a lot of attention
Speaker 2: because it basically stated that, you know, police need to
Speaker 2: consider the long term generational trauma that people of color
Speaker 2: have over police abuse, oppression, over law enforcement trauma, and
Speaker 2: that just because someone runs from the police not mean
Speaker 2: that they're guilty, and that is something when the police
Speaker 2: are making a calculus of whether to pursue someone, whether
Speaker 2: to arrest someone, whether that's going to be considered justifiable
Speaker 2: or appropriate in the court of law, running is not
Speaker 2: a good enough reason, essentially, And basically, you know, I
Speaker 2: had been talking to a capital defense attorney and she
Speaker 2: sort of reminded me that about that case. I noticed
Speaker 2: that no one had interviewed Jimmy, and end of the
Speaker 2: articles that I could find, his attorney that handled this
Speaker 2: case at the appellate level had never met him. And
Speaker 2: both of those things struck me as highly unusual. None
Speaker 2: of the stories that I found said even something like,
Speaker 2: you know, we tried to reach Jimmy and we couldn't
Speaker 2: or anything like that. And so, you know, it seemed
Speaker 2: to me that if we could find this person whose
Speaker 2: case was, you know, it made a major statement. Basically,
Speaker 2: of course, it's the state court, so it's not the
Speaker 2: law of the land, but it certainly did have an impact,
Speaker 2: as we discovered through further reporting. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: we did talk to Jimmy and he immediately agreed to
Speaker 2: you know, sit down with me. I went to Boston.
Speaker 2: We had a pretty lengthy interview and he's a fantastic storyteller,
Speaker 2: and you know, was just a great interview, and we
Speaker 2: felt like one the attention on the case could serve
Speaker 2: as a good entry point for listeners who follow this issue.
Speaker 2: They may remember it because it did make national headlines,
Speaker 2: but then also the nature of the case, it's not
Speaker 2: rooted in any kind of physical injury. But and as
Speaker 2: he speaks to in episode one of the From Words
Speaker 2: Weapons series, just this long term like over policing and
Speaker 2: the effects of that. And we hoped that that would
Speaker 2: establish the ubiquity of law enforcement trauma and the true
Speaker 2: high relevance of this issue, you know, again looking at
Speaker 2: it in a way that we don't often see in
Speaker 2: the news.
Speaker 1: What you know, and this is a question for the
Speaker 1: both of you, and I'd love to hear both of
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this. What was the most surprising thing
Speaker 1: that you discovered, you know, through your research and through
Speaker 1: putting together this series, Because it seems like the research
Speaker 1: that you've done, the people that you've talked to h
Speaker 1: is so extensive. What surprised you the most? And anyone
Speaker 1: can can jump in and go first.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, what is the most surprising thing. So I guess
Speaker 2: I should caveat this by working as a journalist basically
Speaker 2: for my entire career, we can be I mean, I
Speaker 2: could be. Almost nothing is surprising, even though it may
Speaker 2: be kind of outrageous or infuriating. I'm thinking about I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about episode three, and that is about Chesterholman, the
Speaker 2: third who was exonerated after serving nearly three decades in
Speaker 2: prison for a murder he did not commit. And just
Speaker 2: the fact that there isn't support for people who've been
Speaker 2: wrongfully convicted in the way that there should be, given
Speaker 2: the fact that the state, the government has already essentially
Speaker 2: admitted their error and the harm that it caused by
Speaker 2: virtue of this person. It's wrongful conviction. So you know,
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of support. It's all over the
Speaker 2: map as far as state by state, Pennsylvania is one
Speaker 2: of about of a dozen that if you don't go
Speaker 2: the route of litigation, you aren't compensated for this harm
Speaker 2: that you suffer. Which why should someone have to go
Speaker 2: through that again or file a lawsuit? I mean, it
Speaker 2: should be a choice, right, And so recognizing that most
Speaker 2: states have an alternate path that's more of an application
Speaker 2: process and it's all over the map. As I said,
Speaker 2: it's very different. There are states. Systems for this are
Speaker 2: not all created equal. But you know, I would say
Speaker 2: that I don't know if i'd use the word surprising,
Speaker 2: but I thought I was certainly outraged to discover that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is horrendous to have to then go through
Speaker 1: the legal system that unjustly convicted you to try and
Speaker 1: correct a harm that was caused to you is pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Sure. And in Chuster's case and the cases of many
Speaker 2: others who have been through this, it's there's a true
Speaker 2: cost associated with it. I mean, if you serve time
Speaker 2: in prison, it's just you know, there's mental health support
Speaker 2: that you're going to need. You have to restart your
Speaker 2: entire life, maybe you want to go back to school,
Speaker 2: you want to get job training. I mean, the list
Speaker 2: just goes on and on, right and your family, if
Speaker 2: you know your family was supporting you through this, and
Speaker 2: you know they may be in debt from trying to
Speaker 2: pay for attorneys to try to overturn your case, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just kind of shocking, Yeah, to see the
Speaker 2: effort that people have to go through to be compensated
Speaker 2: for all of that, and Stephanie.
Speaker 1: For you what was the most surprising.
Speaker 3: I would add to Emily's you know, episode three and
Speaker 3: this topic, and you know, just to shout out Emily
Speaker 3: as well. You know, she really laid out the politics
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania behind you know, compensation for wrongfully convicted and
Speaker 3: you know we don't have a statute for that, and
Speaker 3: just sort of how contentious that is in the state.
Speaker 3: And so that was also illuminating, besides the whole story,
Speaker 3: you know, of what happened to Chester Home in the
Speaker 3: third I would also say in an episode that we
Speaker 3: released on December twentieth, it is a conversation with a
Speaker 3: physician who has worked in public health and it's about
Speaker 3: post incarceration. Excuse me, it's about post incarceration healthcare and
Speaker 3: navigating mistrust within the medical system. And uh. Doctor Deva
Speaker 3: Vencatt is the co founder and co director of an
Speaker 3: organization in Pittsburgh for people after they've been incarcerated, and
Speaker 3: you know, she's very candid about what happens, you know,
Speaker 3: in terms of healthcare for people while they're incarcerated and afterwards,
Speaker 3: and how they're treated and how they can't get the
Speaker 3: same access to care and are viewed differently, really without humanity,
Speaker 3: and that that really just opened my eyes again just
Speaker 3: sort of stories that you don't hear and you know
Speaker 3: she has, you know, that first hand experience, and you know,
Speaker 3: is part of a group of healthcare professionals who are
Speaker 3: trying to change that. And they're they're taking a harm
Speaker 3: reduction approach to care, you know, right after uh people
Speaker 3: are released, you know, they're they're meeting them right away,
Speaker 3: you know, trying to say, can we connect you with healthcare?
Speaker 3: Because she told us and as we've learned from a
Speaker 3: nurse navigator who's you know, part of her staff as well,
Speaker 3: that formerly incarcerated individuals are at higher risk of dying
Speaker 3: right after release than those first wow.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know it comes everything from substance abuse potential
Speaker 3: to you know, just having health care and uh So
Speaker 3: that that really was like whoa so? And I feel
Speaker 3: I could go on about other surprises, but thank you
Speaker 3: for the question.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. As I close out with with the both of you,
Speaker 1: I just I want to say thank you so much
Speaker 1: for the work that you've done to bring you know,
Speaker 1: these stories to light and just your perspective and how
Speaker 1: you were looking at us using media and narrative to
Speaker 1: to have an impact into how policy can change our
Speaker 1: lives for the better or for the worse. So please
Speaker 1: Emily tell folks how they can connect with the series,
Speaker 1: how they can listen, you know, and and learn more.
Speaker 2: So you can find Obscured on any major streaming platform.
Speaker 2: You could go to podlink and put an obscured and
Speaker 2: you'll find it there. We are on social media at
Speaker 2: Kuvenda Media. I'm on social at emily Underscore Previty and
Speaker 2: the website is Couvendimedia dot com k O u v
Speaker 2: e n d Amedia dot com. Amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for making the time for
Speaker 1: wok F. I really appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the conversation Danielle.
Speaker 3: Thank you Danielle. We really enjoyed being on the show.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on woke
Speaker 1: F as always, power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.