WEBVTT - Policing Trauma

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with

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<v Speaker 1>Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm excited to introduce you to today's guests. Usually on

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<v Speaker 1>wok F we do one on ones because I like

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<v Speaker 1>to go in depth with people and frankly, it's easier

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<v Speaker 1>pre you the listener. But today we have a special

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<v Speaker 1>two on one conversation with the hosts of the serial

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<v Speaker 1>podcast Obscured, and I get into conversation with Emily Previty

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<v Speaker 1>and Stephanie Marudis from Kuvenda Media to discuss the first

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<v Speaker 1>season of Obscure, which dives into Folks, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>say a phrase that I've never said before, policing trauma,

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<v Speaker 1>those that have been abused and experienced trauma at the

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<v Speaker 1>hands of police. You know, whenever we cover state sanctioned

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<v Speaker 1>violence police brutality on this show, we are often trying

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<v Speaker 1>to humanize the person that was and then became a

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<v Speaker 1>hashtag because of being shot, choked, killed by police officer

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<v Speaker 1>or white vigilante. We never then go back for those

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<v Speaker 1>that maybe didn't die, but were emotionally and physically harmed.

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<v Speaker 1>The effects that that kind of trauma has on larger

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<v Speaker 1>community and just the questioning of our unjust system as

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<v Speaker 1>a whole. And so this series Obscured looks into this

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<v Speaker 1>issue in their first season, because these are two media

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<v Speaker 1>veterans that wanted to bring attention and spotlight issues that

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<v Speaker 1>legacy media leaves behind on the newsroom floor. And so

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<v Speaker 1>they've done a ton of research and a ton of interviews,

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<v Speaker 1>and this conversation really brings to light all that we

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<v Speaker 1>don't know and all of the work that is left

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<v Speaker 1>to be done. So that conversation with the hosts and

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<v Speaker 1>founders of Kuvenda Media, Emily Previty and Stephanie Merude, is

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<v Speaker 1>coming up next, folks. I am very excited to welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to OKF Daily for the first time, the creators and

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<v Speaker 1>hosts behind Obscured by Couvenda Media, a series that dives

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<v Speaker 1>into underreported complex issues often missed in the daily news cycle.

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<v Speaker 1>Their inaugural series, From Words to Weapons, centers on the

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<v Speaker 1>harrowing tales of law enforcement trauma survivors and the intricate

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<v Speaker 1>web of challenges, solutions, and hope and resilience that comes

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<v Speaker 1>along with that. So I am so excited Emily and

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<v Speaker 1>Stephanie to have the both of you on the show

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<v Speaker 1>please so that my listeners can get used to your voices.

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<v Speaker 1>Please introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>your your backgrounds and how you came together in Couvenda Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Danielle, thank you so much for having us today. My

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<v Speaker 2>name is Emily Previty. I'm the co creator and executive

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<v Speaker 2>executive editor. I've obscured and my background is in newspapers originally,

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<v Speaker 2>but then got back to radio. I had gotten into

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<v Speaker 2>journalism initially working for WXPN, which is a music focused

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<v Speaker 2>radio station in Philadelphia, but worked for the morning new

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<v Speaker 2>show when I was an undergraduate, and I was working

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<v Speaker 2>for the Press of Atlantic City covering city hall and

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<v Speaker 2>casinos when Stephanie and I cross paths initially, but then

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<v Speaker 2>you know, several years later, each working for NPR affiliates

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<v Speaker 2>based in Pennsylvania, collaborated with some other journalists on a

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<v Speaker 2>long form podcast series called Grapple, and we really hit

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<v Speaker 2>it off. Felt like our you know, approaches and interests

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<v Speaker 2>were aligned as far as reporting. Stayed in touch. It's

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<v Speaker 2>some side projects together, and I joined Stephanie full time

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<v Speaker 2>at Kuvenda in twenty twenty one to launch Obscured. Awesome.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thanks Danielle for having us on the show. We're

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<v Speaker 3>excited to be here. I'm Stephanie Marutis and I fell

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<v Speaker 3>into journalism accidentally, i'd say after college. I had a

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<v Speaker 3>day job and I started volunteering with a Greek community

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<v Speaker 3>radio station in New York City. I had a show,

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<v Speaker 3>a community affair show, and was the reporter, producer and

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<v Speaker 3>host for a Greek diaspora show. And I really loved it.

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<v Speaker 1>I loved it more than my day job.

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<v Speaker 3>And I decided to make the switch to become a

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<v Speaker 3>public radio reporter and I was fortunate to be able

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<v Speaker 3>to do so. And I first started working at WYPR

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<v Speaker 3>in Baltimore, the NPR affiliate. I grew up in Baltimore,

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<v Speaker 3>and so it was great to be able to report

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<v Speaker 3>on my hometown. And then I made the switch to

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<v Speaker 3>whroy Y in Philadelphia, where we're based, and spent my

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<v Speaker 3>time as a general assignment reporter, you know, covering education, healthcare, immigration,

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<v Speaker 3>and just continued to, you know, try to hone the

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<v Speaker 3>craft as much as possible and got really into oral

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<v Speaker 3>history on the side and reading about personal accounts and

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<v Speaker 3>thinking a lot about how public policy impacts our lives

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<v Speaker 3>flash Forward, went from being a reporter to a producer,

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<v Speaker 3>started working on audio documentaries and eventually did another deep

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<v Speaker 3>dive study into oral history and that really catapulted to

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<v Speaker 3>that really catapulted me to start Covenda Media as a

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<v Speaker 3>production company to produce narratives through social change. And as

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<v Speaker 3>Emily mentioned, we came together on Grapple and uh that was,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, just an extraordinary experience with a wonderful team,

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<v Speaker 3>and then insight into the collaboration with Emily and thinking

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<v Speaker 3>about how could we do this again? And this is

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<v Speaker 3>where we are today day.

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<v Speaker 1>Amazing. I love the background and love the story of

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<v Speaker 1>how the two of you came together. I think that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, storytelling, particularly around justice issues are incredibly important.

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<v Speaker 1>And what I find is that we get very much

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<v Speaker 1>bogged down by statistics and stories are what turn statistics

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<v Speaker 1>into people and humans with lives and and how those

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<v Speaker 1>policy decisions affect people's day to day lives. I think

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<v Speaker 1>is where we are needing right. We need more of

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<v Speaker 1>that in order to understand why policy matters, like why

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<v Speaker 1>it matters to your day to day life. So let

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<v Speaker 1>me let me ask you this, and and Emily if

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<v Speaker 1>you if you'll kick us off with the response, which is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, tell us about Obscured and that first season,

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<v Speaker 1>because let me tell you that, when I think about

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<v Speaker 1>all of the names that kind of rattle through my

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<v Speaker 1>head of unarmed black people, children, women who were killed

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<v Speaker 1>by police, when I think about those people that would

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<v Speaker 1>become hashtags that then came from communities, families, you know, schools,

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<v Speaker 1>and the loss that kind of is a ripple effect.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't really ever dig into that kind of trauma

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<v Speaker 1>and the fact that you even named it as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people who were victimized by police police trauma. Just talk

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<v Speaker 1>to us about that first season and really your why

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<v Speaker 1>behind it.

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<v Speaker 2>So the idea for the first season, well, it had

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<v Speaker 2>been years since I had reported on criminal justice, account

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<v Speaker 2>ability and excessive force, but I had done that before

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<v Speaker 2>and switched medium, switched jobs and beats since then, but

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<v Speaker 2>had really continued to follow the issue and care very

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<v Speaker 2>deeply about it over the years. Wanted to get back

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<v Speaker 2>to that should the opportunity present, and so that was

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<v Speaker 2>in my mind, but we hadn't decided what we were

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<v Speaker 2>going to do, how we were going to focus the

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<v Speaker 2>first season of Obscured. I was researching an episode for

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<v Speaker 2>At the Core of Care, which is a podcast that

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<v Speaker 2>predates my time at Kuvenda with Stephanie, but that she

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<v Speaker 2>has produced with a nursing advocacy organization for years, and

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<v Speaker 2>was researching an episode for that about standardizing sexual assault

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<v Speaker 2>exam procedures. And you know, I came across nurse who

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<v Speaker 2>was on the schedule for a conference for forensic nurses

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<v Speaker 2>specific and the title of her presentation was developing a protocol.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't remember the exact title off the top of

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<v Speaker 2>my head, but it was about developing the protocol for

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<v Speaker 2>caring for people who were survivors of law enforcement trauma,

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<v Speaker 2>developing a forensic model for doing so. And I asked

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<v Speaker 2>her about that sort of as a warm up, but

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<v Speaker 2>then that's where the conversation went, and it was clear

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<v Speaker 2>to me immediately that her story and her work could

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<v Speaker 2>be part of, if not the focus, of the first season.

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<v Speaker 2>And her name is Maya Anderson. She runs the undergraduate

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<v Speaker 2>and graduate nursing programs at Morgan State University in Baltimore.

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<v Speaker 1>And Stephanie, for you, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>What.

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<v Speaker 1>Brought you to this being the focus of the first

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<v Speaker 1>season and why was it important to tell this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of again. You know, we see a lot you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I noticed, I don't know if you guys notice, but

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<v Speaker 1>every time there is some type of nationalized uh incident

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<v Speaker 1>involving police, then all of a sudden, my social media

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be flooded with all of these heartwarming videos

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<v Speaker 1>of police showing up in neighborhoods and you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>playing jump rope and doing all of these things. So

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<v Speaker 1>why was it important for you to show that the

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<v Speaker 1>trauma side.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, thanks for that question. And I think as we

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<v Speaker 3>think about why we're doing obscured in the first place, uh,

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<v Speaker 3>that could help set the stage to help me answer

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<v Speaker 3>the question. Emily and I, you know, spent time uh

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<v Speaker 3>working in legacy media organizations and uh, you know, working

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<v Speaker 3>in the daily news cycle, and you know, we've just

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<v Speaker 3>noticed so many redundancies. You know, you really see the

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<v Speaker 3>same story kind of over and over again, and uh,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, your listeners and you and us, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we're just consumed in content.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a lot of content.

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<v Speaker 3>Coming at us all the time on various platforms, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think as journalist, Emily and I, you know, feel

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<v Speaker 3>committed to being able to report on angles of stories

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<v Speaker 3>that do not often you know, get told in the

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<v Speaker 3>in the coverage that you see in the media, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we start to think about, you know, how

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<v Speaker 3>could we help contribute to moving a conversation forward on

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<v Speaker 3>an issue. And I think, as Emily mentioned when she

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<v Speaker 3>spoke with Maya Anderson, you know, that struck us as, Wow,

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<v Speaker 3>that's an angle of this topic we've never heard about.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, that forensic nurse who has seen people present

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<v Speaker 3>in the emergency department who need care and they need

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<v Speaker 3>to have a protocol, uh, you know, and that it's

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<v Speaker 3>it's controversial, and there's a lot of pushback, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>around this, and you know, as she lays out in

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<v Speaker 3>episode seven of our series, and and some of the

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<v Speaker 3>other nurses who are interviewed, you know, it's this dynamic

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<v Speaker 3>of calling the police on the police, and that's really

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<v Speaker 3>hard to do. And so we thought that this is

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<v Speaker 3>a story that needs to be told. And to Emily's credit,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, she spent the last few years digging deep,

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<v Speaker 3>doing a ton of research, developing sources, you know, really

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<v Speaker 3>trying to tell this story that's not told and so

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<v Speaker 3>that fit with our mission of Obscured, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's it's difficult to report, and you know, Emily, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and I would identify some potential sources and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>try to connect with you know, sources and they might

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<v Speaker 3>be ready to talk, but then in some cases they weren't.

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<v Speaker 3>And we totally get that, and it's a thank you

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<v Speaker 3>for considering the time. You know, we we we understand.

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<v Speaker 3>So it took time to develop trust and and sources.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think in Emily's reporting you can see that

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<v Speaker 3>we took a trauma informed approach. In our narrative episodes.

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<v Speaker 1>The series begins with the story of Jimmy Warren, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I'd love for you to be able to explain

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<v Speaker 1>to the listeners about that case and why you decided

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<v Speaker 1>to start the series with him.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, so Jimmy Warren's case. If you follow these issues closely,

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<v Speaker 2>you might remember back in twenty sixteen, there was a

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<v Speaker 2>major decision in the fall of that year from the

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<v Speaker 2>Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court that got a lot of attention

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<v Speaker 2>because it basically stated that, you know, police need to

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<v Speaker 2>consider the long term generational trauma that people of color

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<v Speaker 2>have over police abuse, oppression, over law enforcement trauma, and

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<v Speaker 2>that just because someone runs from the police not mean

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<v Speaker 2>that they're guilty, and that is something when the police

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<v Speaker 2>are making a calculus of whether to pursue someone, whether

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<v Speaker 2>to arrest someone, whether that's going to be considered justifiable

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<v Speaker 2>or appropriate in the court of law, running is not

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<v Speaker 2>a good enough reason, essentially, And basically, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>had been talking to a capital defense attorney and she

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<v Speaker 2>sort of reminded me that about that case. I noticed

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<v Speaker 2>that no one had interviewed Jimmy, and end of the

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<v Speaker 2>articles that I could find, his attorney that handled this

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<v Speaker 2>case at the appellate level had never met him. And

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<v Speaker 2>both of those things struck me as highly unusual. None

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<v Speaker 2>of the stories that I found said even something like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we tried to reach Jimmy and we couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>or anything like that. And so, you know, it seemed

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<v Speaker 2>to me that if we could find this person whose

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<v Speaker 2>case was, you know, it made a major statement. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, it's the state court, so it's not the

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<v Speaker 2>law of the land, but it certainly did have an impact,

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<v Speaker 2>as we discovered through further reporting. But you know, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>we did talk to Jimmy and he immediately agreed to

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, sit down with me. I went to Boston.

0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.560
<v Speaker 2>We had a pretty lengthy interview and he's a fantastic storyteller,

0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 2>and you know, was just a great interview, and we

0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 2>felt like one the attention on the case could serve

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.320
<v Speaker 2>as a good entry point for listeners who follow this issue.

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 2>They may remember it because it did make national headlines,

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 2>but then also the nature of the case, it's not

0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 2>rooted in any kind of physical injury. But and as

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 2>he speaks to in episode one of the From Words

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Weapons series, just this long term like over policing and

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 2>the effects of that. And we hoped that that would

0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 2>establish the ubiquity of law enforcement trauma and the true

0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.680
<v Speaker 2>high relevance of this issue, you know, again looking at

0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 2>it in a way that we don't often see in

0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 2>the news.

0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>What you know, and this is a question for the

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.399
<v Speaker 1>both of you, and I'd love to hear both of

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts on this. What was the most surprising thing

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 1>that you discovered, you know, through your research and through

0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 1>putting together this series, Because it seems like the research

0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.320
<v Speaker 1>that you've done, the people that you've talked to h

0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:27.360
<v Speaker 1>is so extensive. What surprised you the most? And anyone

0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:38.480
<v Speaker 1>can can jump in and go first.

0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, what is the most surprising thing. So I guess

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I should caveat this by working as a journalist basically

0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:49.000
<v Speaker 2>for my entire career, we can be I mean, I

0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 2>could be. Almost nothing is surprising, even though it may

0:17:54.640 --> 0:18:06.200
<v Speaker 2>be kind of outrageous or infuriating. I'm thinking about I'm

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.159
<v Speaker 2>thinking about episode three, and that is about Chesterholman, the

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 2>third who was exonerated after serving nearly three decades in

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.439
<v Speaker 2>prison for a murder he did not commit. And just

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the fact that there isn't support for people who've been

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:27.280
<v Speaker 2>wrongfully convicted in the way that there should be, given

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:33.920
<v Speaker 2>the fact that the state, the government has already essentially

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>admitted their error and the harm that it caused by

0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:41.919
<v Speaker 2>virtue of this person. It's wrongful conviction. So you know,

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:44.919
<v Speaker 2>there's not a lot of support. It's all over the

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.479
<v Speaker 2>map as far as state by state, Pennsylvania is one

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.200
<v Speaker 2>of about of a dozen that if you don't go

0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 2>the route of litigation, you aren't compensated for this harm

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.000
<v Speaker 2>that you suffer. Which why should someone have to go

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.000
<v Speaker 2>through that again or file a lawsuit? I mean, it

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 2>should be a choice, right, And so recognizing that most

0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:14.200
<v Speaker 2>states have an alternate path that's more of an application

0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.400
<v Speaker 2>process and it's all over the map. As I said,

0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.760
<v Speaker 2>it's very different. There are states. Systems for this are

0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 2>not all created equal. But you know, I would say

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.119
<v Speaker 2>that I don't know if i'd use the word surprising,

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 2>but I thought I was certainly outraged to discover that.

0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is horrendous to have to then go through

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 1>the legal system that unjustly convicted you to try and

0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.359
<v Speaker 1>correct a harm that was caused to you is pretty wild.

0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Sure. And in Chuster's case and the cases of many

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 2>others who have been through this, it's there's a true

0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.680
<v Speaker 2>cost associated with it. I mean, if you serve time

0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.360
<v Speaker 2>in prison, it's just you know, there's mental health support

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.199
<v Speaker 2>that you're going to need. You have to restart your

0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 2>entire life, maybe you want to go back to school,

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 2>you want to get job training. I mean, the list

0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 2>just goes on and on, right and your family, if

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.880
<v Speaker 2>you know your family was supporting you through this, and

0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.040
<v Speaker 2>you know they may be in debt from trying to

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 2>pay for attorneys to try to overturn your case, I mean, yeah,

0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:31.119
<v Speaker 2>it was just kind of shocking, Yeah, to see the

0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.360
<v Speaker 2>effort that people have to go through to be compensated

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.160
<v Speaker 2>for all of that, and Stephanie.

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.679
<v Speaker 1>For you what was the most surprising.

0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.159
<v Speaker 3>I would add to Emily's you know, episode three and

0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.320
<v Speaker 3>this topic, and you know, just to shout out Emily

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.120
<v Speaker 3>as well. You know, she really laid out the politics

0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:59.359
<v Speaker 3>in Pennsylvania behind you know, compensation for wrongfully convicted and

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.919
<v Speaker 3>you know we don't have a statute for that, and

0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.320
<v Speaker 3>just sort of how contentious that is in the state.

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.080
<v Speaker 3>And so that was also illuminating, besides the whole story,

0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, of what happened to Chester Home in the

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:16.359
<v Speaker 3>third I would also say in an episode that we

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:21.560
<v Speaker 3>released on December twentieth, it is a conversation with a

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.159
<v Speaker 3>physician who has worked in public health and it's about

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 3>post incarceration. Excuse me, it's about post incarceration healthcare and

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.200
<v Speaker 3>navigating mistrust within the medical system. And uh. Doctor Deva

0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:40.800
<v Speaker 3>Vencatt is the co founder and co director of an

0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 3>organization in Pittsburgh for people after they've been incarcerated, and

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:51.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, she's very candid about what happens, you know,

0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 3>in terms of healthcare for people while they're incarcerated and afterwards,

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 3>and how they're treated and how they can't get the

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.320
<v Speaker 3>same access to care and are viewed differently, really without humanity,

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.800
<v Speaker 3>and that that really just opened my eyes again just

0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.359
<v Speaker 3>sort of stories that you don't hear and you know

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.199
<v Speaker 3>she has, you know, that first hand experience, and you know,

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.479
<v Speaker 3>is part of a group of healthcare professionals who are

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.360
<v Speaker 3>trying to change that. And they're they're taking a harm

0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.920
<v Speaker 3>reduction approach to care, you know, right after uh people

0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:25.720
<v Speaker 3>are released, you know, they're they're meeting them right away,

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 3>you know, trying to say, can we connect you with healthcare?

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 3>Because she told us and as we've learned from a

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:34.160
<v Speaker 3>nurse navigator who's you know, part of her staff as well,

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.200
<v Speaker 3>that formerly incarcerated individuals are at higher risk of dying

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.119
<v Speaker 3>right after release than those first wow.

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:41.159
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know it comes everything from substance abuse potential

0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.600
<v Speaker 3>to you know, just having health care and uh So

0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:53.359
<v Speaker 3>that that really was like whoa so? And I feel

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.359
<v Speaker 3>I could go on about other surprises, but thank you

0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:56.920
<v Speaker 3>for the question.

0:22:57.720 --> 0:22:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. As I close out with with the both of you,

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.720
<v Speaker 1>I just I want to say thank you so much

0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 1>for the work that you've done to bring you know,

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:18.959
<v Speaker 1>these stories to light and just your perspective and how

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:24.680
<v Speaker 1>you were looking at us using media and narrative to

0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.520
<v Speaker 1>to have an impact into how policy can change our

0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 1>lives for the better or for the worse. So please

0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Emily tell folks how they can connect with the series,

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.920
<v Speaker 1>how they can listen, you know, and and learn more.

0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 2>So you can find Obscured on any major streaming platform.

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.560
<v Speaker 2>You could go to podlink and put an obscured and

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.960
<v Speaker 2>you'll find it there. We are on social media at

0:23:56.040 --> 0:24:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Kuvenda Media. I'm on social at emily Underscore Previty and

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the website is Couvendimedia dot com k O u v

0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:13.879
<v Speaker 2>e n d Amedia dot com. Amazing.

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.399
<v Speaker 1>Thank you both so much for making the time for

0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 1>wok F. I really appreciate you.

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for the conversation Danielle.

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:25.879
<v Speaker 3>Thank you Danielle. We really enjoyed being on the show.

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.800
<v Speaker 1>That is it for me today, dear friends on woke

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>F as always, power to the people and to all

0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.