WEBVTT - Apple Debuts iPhone 17 Lineup, Including Skinnier Air Mode 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:10.520 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.680 Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.799 ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:23.760 today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech news 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.760 as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.760 Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:34.800 We've been all in on Apple today. 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.720 The company out with the biggest product launch of the year, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.640 the iPhone seventeen, a skinnier air design. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:43.640 It improves durability and camera tech. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.320 As far as prices go, seven ninety nine is the 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:48.440 starting price of the standard phone. The new air versional 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.199 costs nine to ninety nine. The pro is going to 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.360 go up by one hundred dollars with twice as much storage. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:54.840 I want to bring in Dan Ives. 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.360 He's Global head of Technology Research at Webush Securities. He's 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.240 also chairman of eight co holdings over three thousand percent. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.880 After announcing a planned to buy the news just my 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.959 open eyes all. But that was yesterday, Dan's here on 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:08.800 site at future Proof in Huntington Beach. We're going to 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.600 talk about a co holdings in a minute. But first 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.319 I just want to get your reaction to Apple, because 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.880 you you actually I saw you you were on your 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.160 laptop and then I got your most recent Apple note. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.319 Well while we were doing our interview with Barry, you 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.880 just you just you're maintaining your price target on Apple. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:26.920 You and the team at web bush us to make 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.880 their three hundred and fifteen million folks out there who 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.720 are ready to upgrade their iPhones. Is the seventeen gonna 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:33.679 gun to upgrade? 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.720 Look, I think it's gonna move the needle. I mean, 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.200 I think, especially in China, there's definitely what i'd pin 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.880 up demand. I think street numbers continue to be pretty 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.399 conservative to maybe low, and that's a great setup. Look, 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.320 the reality is that this is not going to be 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.720 a super cycle. There's nothing here that makes you think 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.559 that this is gonna be the game change that everyone's 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.840 been waiting for. But I do believe given the install base, 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.360 given some of the tweaks here, and ultimately on the 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.240 on sort of the second half of this upgrade cycle, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.600 you will have an AI driven ecosystem. 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.200 I believe it will be Google Gemini. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.799 This could be a sneaky upgrade cycle that I think 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.200 surprises investors on the upside. What do you mean because 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:20.200 right now, expectations New York City cab drivers bearish on Apple, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.520 and I think that what I like about the setup 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.600 is it's all about it's kind of left behind. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:25.760 Now. 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.760 A lot of that's been self inflicted, because every Apple 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.400 event feels like it's a I feel like Michael J. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.360 Fox and back to the future, you know. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.520 So they continue to be left behind AI, but now 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.040 with the Google DOJ issue in the rear view, they 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.440 will double down ultimate in that Gemini partnership. And when 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.040 you look at the install base, I think I think 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.640 Street is underestimating what numbers look like for iPhone when 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.639 you look out over the next six, nine, twelve months, 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.079 And I think in big tech, I view Apple from 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.560 a sentiment perspective relative to where I viewed Alphabet. Maybe 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.480 about six months ago. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.480 You in your note ahead of the launch called Apple's 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.240 AI strategy quote invisible. You said, the elephant in the room, 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.880 and is the black over the stock AI's invisible or 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:20.480 Apple's invisible AI strategy? Did you get any more information 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.440 today at the launch about its strategy? 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:27.360 I mean, I think fundamentally it they're keeping it close 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:29.560 to the vest Right, you know, in the words, it 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.639 continues to be that black cloud. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.680 I think they're waiting. 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.560 For ultimately what's going to be Gemini, because I think 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.240 they had a choice either go down the rout with 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.400 perplexity and ultimately look to acquire that, or if it 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.920 was a favorable ruling, then the candlelight dinner with Google 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.440 and sun Dar could ultimately start again and then you 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.320 could actually double down that partnership. 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.520 And that is I believe the direction. But look, Tim 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.240 they got it. 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.560 It was a black eye moment a year ago when 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.960 they laid out the AI strategy. Means it's ninety five 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:05.400 percent of that had a backtrack on it. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.120 Well now and now they've lost a lot of the 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.840 senior executives that we're working on that to matterply and. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.360 We've talked about there's a better chance to me playing 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:18.719 Ryder cup Bethpage than any internal AI strategy happening at Apple. 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:20.599 But is that such a bad thing? And this is 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:21.920 one of the things that Dan we talk a lot 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.159 about that maybe Apple's just kind of watching. There's a 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.080 lot of money slashing around trying to figure out what 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.719 ultimately are the standards, the methods the companies that really 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.880 dominate right in terms of AI kind of protocols, and 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.559 maybe Apple's like I'll just watch and then we'll figure 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:36.880 it out. 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.799 Are that bad? I think it's bad. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.680 I compare it to like Saturday night in New York 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.760 City there's a restaurant where there's one person in there 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.159 at eight thirty, like, oh, they must know something everyone 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.160 else does. I'd rather go to the place where people 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.840 are lining up outside when it comes to ultimately, AI, 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.159 time's not on their side. Loo quid open AI. Look 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.920 at Meta wartime CEO, look at Microsoft. Look what are 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.040 Google's done? That's why are you in an all time high? 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.719 So I do believe Cooks recognized it. But the problem 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.440 is is that now it's a go time moment when 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.360 it comes to AI. And now, look we've talked about 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.600 that's how you get through three twenty five three point 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.279 fifty four hundred dollars stock is AI? 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:17.880 You know? 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.360 Relative to right now Apple, they're kind of on the 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.120 outside looking in of that AI party where it's still 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:25.400 ten pm going to four am. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.040 Everyone wants to know about what the heck is going 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.360 on over at eight co Holdings, your chairman of this company. Now, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.200 I think it took a lot of people by surprise. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.240 It's a crypto treasury firm. And for those who aren't 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.640 familiar with the way this works, it's a Michael Sailor strategy, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.279 but with a different cryptocurrency. This is world Coin backed 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.159 by Sam Altman eyeball scanning stuff. 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.360 What is going on here? 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.000 So I wouldn't have done this as chairman if it 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.800 was just a regular token back strategy. The reason I 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.000 did this it has to do with Sam. It has 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.680 to do with my view World is going to be 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.760 the acto standard for identification authentication in terms of human 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.800 proof in AI world. This is much more of a 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.359 tech infrastructure play than when I'd say the traditional crypto play. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.040 So obviously the reason I'm so excited about it is 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.720 really this is going to become I think a huge 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.960 part of the story and the narrative. It's really an 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:24.520 intersection of AI and crypto. Explain that damn so So 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.200 what that means is, you know, as tempto, it's IRIS 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.040 scanning the orbs. Right going forward in the future, especially 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.880 in the robotic world bots everywhere, You're not going to 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:35.520 be able just identify through a boot check. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.560 It's really going to be iris scanning what they've done. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.280 Already fifteen million humans on the platform I believe going 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.000 about one hundred million over the next year. That's going 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.200 to be a form of identification. That's probably the most 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.520 privacy lock box out there, and it's secured by a token, 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.400 a World token. So my view and our view as 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.120 a team, this is early days in terms of where 0:06:58.160 --> 0:06:59.800 this is all heading. And that's why we want to 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:00.600 do a strategy. 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.520 Now, what's to prevent somebody else from doing the same 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:03.440 thing they are. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.919 They're playing a different game than they they're Vidian twenty 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.039 twenty two. And in other words, like relative to what 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.440 sam Alex and the team have built out, I mean 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.800 from an infrastructure and authentication perspective, they are I think 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.040 miles ahead. I don't see anyone that could capture them. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.360 That's why we bet on World as part of the 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.120 acres strategy. And obviously having someone like Tom Lee and 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.400 bitminor Huge, you know, big Investor, that's another support that 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:28.320 we're so excited to have. 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.720 You've also got an ETF the launched back in June. 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.920 It's the dan ives wedbush Ai Revolution ETF. It's up 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.120 sixteen percent since launch. It's outperforming the S and P 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:45.360 five hundred and the NASDAQ one hundred, Broadcom, Google and Video, TSMC, Apple. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:46.800 They're the top holdings. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.560 Somebody watching right now might be like, Okay, he's got 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.679 a clothing company, he's chairman of this crypto treasury company, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:54.160 he has his. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:55.280 Day job at Wedbush. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.640 How am I sure that he's going to manage this 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.280 ETF and have the time and resources to manage the 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:02.240 CTF and my interest? 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.560 And that's a great question. I'd say, when you think 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.720 about my chairman role, it's all related to to AI 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.520 and the infrastructure, and there was this is interrelated to 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.400 my view of where the AI revolution gets built out. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.000 And the reality is that ninety five percent of my 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.760 time is spent you know, three and a half million 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.760 aire miles last twenty five years. I think what's what's 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.640 enabled to distinguish us is feet on the ground talking 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.960 whether it's private public partners and really, you know, I 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:30.560 think that's how investors have grown to. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.640 Do you add Do you add eight co holdings to 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:33.760 the i's ETF? 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:38.000 No, No, that would be totally it's a total separate operation. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.839 I keep firewalls between it, though, Like there's going to 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.120 be people who are saying, yeah, of course Dan's going 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.439 to talk up that he loves Alphabet and that he 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.760 looks loves Nvidia. I mean he's got an ETF. 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.720 Like I just how do we sure on the ETF 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.959 and you for like and remember and part of how 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.600 investors know us the ETF is all based on our 0:08:58.640 --> 0:08:59.440 ives AI thirty. 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:00.600 It's all based or research. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:02.920 So the reality is I think part of how we've 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.839 gotten so you know, the the customer, I'd say from 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:11.120 an investor perspective, we've had massive you know, I think 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.679 reception for the ETF is because it's our thirty names 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.920 that altermately we've used the winners and we and we 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.240 change out every quarter. And that's I think you did 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:22.040 about ETF. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.400 What it's based on. It's all based on the research. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.520 And got everyone here that knows Dan ives they know 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.520 like feet on the street, not sitting there in some 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.720 Peter Malar fifteen to four of New York City office building. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:35.880 And the only time we travel is two times in 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:36.640 San Francisco. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:38.920 Now, you just got back from Australia. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.079 Yeah, so I literally landed here from Australia. 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:42.360 What were you doing there? Yeah? 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.880 So part part work part pleasure. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.640 So it's fun because look, I mean we when we 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:52.920 talk at AI revolution like in Sydney, in Melbourne pack meetings, 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.280 because the reality is that this is not just us. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.320 And that's why I spend so much my time traveling 0:09:58.320 --> 0:09:59.360 around the globe what. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.439 Might be the national exuberance part of kind of the 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.040 trade today or the tech trade or the AI trade. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.080 And just got about thirty seconds. There's got to be 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:09.120 some fluff out. 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.280 Just could you say AI forty times in a conference call? 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.520 Doesn't make yourself an AI need Look just because like 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.000 Tim he was wearing an AI shirt because he says 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.360 it fifteen times and says Tim on the back AI, 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.320 it doesn't. My view is you have to distinguish the 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.400 winners and the real ones from the fakes. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:27.679 And that's the reality. And then look, that's what we 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:28.920 spend all of our time doing. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.600 The one company you're most bullish on right now, public. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.600 Company SCFAI volunteer that's going to a trillion next two 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.480 to three years. And I always say the haters hate it, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.000 hated fifteen, despise it, eighties, say it's super expensive one 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:40.520 point fifty. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:42.439 They'll be seeing the same thing at a trillion. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.600 Yeah, it's a company we've talked a lot about, I 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:46.720 would say, in the last year and then some dnives. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:47.480 Thank you so much. 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.640 I always appreciate it. Globalhead of Technology Research at web 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:51.679 Bush Securities. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:53.080 Stay with us. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.160 More from Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming up after this. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.920 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.719 us live weekday afternoons from two to fiveys during this 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.800 listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.800 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.360 Jennifer Grancia was back with US, globalhead of ETFs over 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.240 at TCW. They've got more than two hundred billion across 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.000 investment solutions as of the mid of this year midpoint. 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:28.000 ETF platforms have more than four billion a lot under management. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.120 They see a lot of flows. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.679 We want to remind everybody to Jennifer, the former CEO 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.800 of the Impact Investment from Engine Number one, which took 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.720 on Exon, You're going to be iconic forever. This is 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.600 going to go with you wherever you go because it 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:41.760 was really significant. 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.040 I think also, I think also you joined us at 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.640 Milkin during that time. Yeah, you guys were in the 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.160 midst of that and that's where sort of like I 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.400 still know you from, but I think people still know 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.319 you from that, as Carol mentioned, Yeah. 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.360 I mean Engine number one was a moment in time 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.920 where I think we had just started to think about 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.240 energy transition at a very big level. It's not just green, 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.199 it's brown. And then it's going to require so much 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.040 to move the world towards better sources of energy, electrification, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.000 all the power we need for restoring in the US. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.840 So yeah, that was it was a great moment in time, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.720 and then we folded in a lot of the work 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.600 we had done there into TCW. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.720 We'll talk about what you are doing because energy is 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.240 a big theme in terms of investing here for you 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:24.520 guys for sure. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.600 So if you think about the world today as much 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.320 as it's volatile and we're never sure exactly what's going 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.280 to happen or how things are going to play out, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.360 if you think about TCW, we started as an equity firm, 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.880 and then we've got a great public private credit business, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.880 and so on the equity side, a lot of what 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:44.400 we do is fundamental concentrated portfolios that help you diversify 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.520 from the index fund and the direct indexing you have 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.600 at the core because the market is broadening and we 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.319 have a huge opportunity as investors to actually take advantage 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.960 of How do you profit from the fact that we're 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.360 seeing different sources of energy and we have a huge 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.760 demand for energy for AI and data centers, but also 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.439 for the restoring of manufacturing. 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.080 How do you do that in an environment where the administration, 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.560 depending on who's in the White House, changes their view 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.880 on the future of energy, like does a one ad. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.960 I mean you have the president wanting to actually doing it, 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.080 trying to cancel offshore wind projects and really anything that 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.600 isn't oil. It seems like he's not interested in safer nuclear. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.320 But that's a bigger time arise in time. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:26.920 Yeah, but that's how we think about it. So from 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.960 a TCW perspective, we've been investing in the energy and 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.400 power transition. We do that through the ETF Powered pr PWRD. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.640 Pardon me, but when we think about that, that's a 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.480 very long trend. So that's over decades and decades, and 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.520 so the way we think about it as we as 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.800 managers want to invest for you, so that we're paying 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.160 attention to one administration to the other and what happens 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.440 and there will be some changes, but if you think 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.040 about the changes in the traditional brown so that they 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.720 can electrify and be more productive in a market like 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.480 the Permian on oil, that's really important. Nuclear is incredibly important, 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.120 and then what Trump said on actually supporting more nuclear. Yeah, 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.880 it's a long run game, but that's great intermittent power. 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:09.680 So we like to think about it very broadly, and 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.080 it transcends administrations. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.960 What does it mean you ignore wind and solar That can. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.959 Be part of our portfolio as well. We're looking at 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.520 things that from a very long term perspective will make sense. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.320 And you think, even though wind is under so much 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.840 pressure right now, in a different administration, it could come back. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.000 It will be part of the solution. It's not the 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.520 lead place to make money in the next couple of years. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.680 And we're active managers, so we can take that into 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.160 account in terms of the way we manage the portfolio. 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.800 Where is money going across your platforms, where are the 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.000 flows going in, where are the flow's coming out? 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.720 We would see if I answer it, maybe had an 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.000 industry question, and then I can talk about to PACW 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.240 We see active equity is tough, so in active equity 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.360 investments are very selective. So what we're doing in active 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:56.000 equity products like powered or AIFD for AI, if they're selective, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.400 they're meant to be complementing to bake index holdings. And 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.800 on fixed income, like a lot of money continues to 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.960 come into fixed income and continues to come into active 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.840 fixed income or also big in private credit, not in 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.800 the ETF space and products that are appropriate there, but 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.400 both if fixed income and private credit are probably the 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.240 places we see the most money coming in. 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:20.080 Really not surprising. It feels like everything is private credit. 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.280 I mean, I don't like katty. 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:23.040 Does it does. 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:24.680 But on the other hand, it's early. So if you 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.320 think about if you think about the portfolio, and if 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.160 you think about the biggest institutions in the world, they're 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.720 invested in some kinds of private credit, but they're looking 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.560 to get into private ABF because it's diversifying. But in 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.600 wealth portfolios, if you think about the average investor or 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.800 registered investment advisors, they're looking at how to take advantage 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:48.120 of returns that can be like our core plus income 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.480 ETF flexer. You know that's returning almost seven percent with 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.240 over five percent annual yield. That's very attractive when you 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:59.240 move into safe control careful private credit. You're still picking 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.560 up multiple percentage points a year, so people should do 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.680 it carefully. But it's a big opportunity. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.360 Do you see that opportunity continue to grow in a 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:08.400 weakening environment? 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:10.600 We do. It's if again, if you go out and 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.440 you survey. There's a McKinsey report that just came out 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.200 surveying institutions and wealth and private credit by far is 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.640 the place that people are most interested in most increasing allocations. 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.560 In What confidence do you have that we have the 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.720 right regulatory oversight on this in a world where private 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.160 credit still there is a lack of transparency and people 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.880 don't maybe not all investors understand that it's not liquid 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.040 like a lot of other investments. 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.840 It's the right question, which is from a responsibility perspective 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.800 as asset managers or for wealth managers, we should always 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.320 be in a dialogue with clients on do they understand 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.640 the liquids when you do a semi liquid product. For example, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.960 for us, we have things that have many many your 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.600 five plus year draw downs, that's not a liquid product. 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:54.480 We wouldn't tell. 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.800 Clients if that's a liquid product. In the asset back 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.360 finance space, we have an interval fund, but the loans 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.760 there are getting kind of turning over within two to 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.320 four years, so there's a little bit more liquidity there. 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.520 So I think we'll watch the regulatory space, but investor 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.800 education and responsibility by the managers it's critical. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:13.600 So when it comes to private credit, you're looking for 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.600 things where it is two to four years that they're 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.840 turning over a little bit more liquid that that's a. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.520 Little bit more liquid. And so if you think about 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.320 private credit in the private securitized or asset back finance space, 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.040 the loans are self advertising in two to four years, 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.280 that's a space we think in interval fund makes sense 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.000 we manage an interval fund there. There are other places 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.280 where it's just not that liquid and that should be 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:34.399 a private market product. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.399 Still a lot of interest in AI and the fund 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:39.560 that tracks that a. 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.560 Huge amount of interest in AI, and I think everybody's 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.920 interested in one what's happening with AI, who wins what happens, 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.080 but people are also looking at how to invest in it. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.360 So at TCW, we manage an ETFAIFD which is investing 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.080 very broadly in AI, and that's an opportunity to take 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:01.720 advantage of. Yes, it Holds, Navidia, Broadcom and other companies 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.320 that are benefiting and early winners in the trade. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.320 When you come to an event like this, I mean, 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:08.120 is there a narrative you're picking up on that might 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:08.840 be surprising? 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:09.480 I'm just curious. 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.200 Just got about thirty seconds here, I. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.959 Think from this conference, which is full of wealth advisors, 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.880 they are trying to figure out how does artificial intelligence 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.720 affect their business, how do they get smarter about it, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.359 and how can they adopt new outsourcing and new technology 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.880 so that they can spend more time actually serving their clients. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:28.800 Which is a great thing. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:29.720 Which is a great thing. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.760 More time with the investment advisors. Always good to get 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.679 more time with you. Thank you so much, an always 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.439 find it. Jennifer Grancio, She's Global ahead of ETFs over 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.280 at TCW, joining us on site at future Proof. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:42.520