Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Let's get right to
Speaker 1: our next guest, Sad Path Soda Ryan, chief revenue officer
Speaker 1: from Verizon, joins a sad Path. Thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us here, huge global company, Verizon Business Consumer. How
Speaker 1: has your business changed in the last two years? Hey,
Speaker 1: good morning everyone. Look, it's been a good time for us.
Speaker 1: You know, as networks become even more important as people
Speaker 1: work from home, remote work is more prevalent networks and
Speaker 1: what we offer becomes really important. And for us, it's
Speaker 1: also where we are launching five G you know, we
Speaker 1: are right now at the cusp of a second phase
Speaker 1: of the five G era where we turn on our
Speaker 1: ce band network in a few weeks times. So it's
Speaker 1: it's it's just a great time to be in this business.
Speaker 1: So you are the chief revenue officer. I don't know
Speaker 1: how deep into the tech you are, but you have
Speaker 1: to have some um view on the safety of five G.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, for the first time last week,
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that it's capable of messing with airplanes altitude
Speaker 1: sensors and maybe you would make landing dangerous. To me,
Speaker 1: it's pretty binary. Either it's dangerous or it's not. What's
Speaker 1: the deal, It's not dangerous. Look, safeties are most important
Speaker 1: to us, and it's kind of number one in what
Speaker 1: we do. All we that are forty countries around the
Speaker 1: world that have five G networks in the same CE
Speaker 1: band that we operate in. Planes takeoff, planes land there
Speaker 1: really well, one of the countries is France. You know,
Speaker 1: American planes go in and get out there. What we
Speaker 1: are proposing is a kind of a similar approach to
Speaker 1: what's there in France, where we kind of have an
Speaker 1: exclusionary zone just outside the airports where we have lower
Speaker 1: power levels so there's no interference that way. You know.
Speaker 1: We give the f A and the FCC six months
Speaker 1: to work this out, but we feel very confident and
Speaker 1: we just can't wait to launch the network. I mean,
Speaker 1: even if you didn't have that sand path, what if
Speaker 1: you had the strongest, most powerful five G signals right
Speaker 1: up the tower. Um, would it interfere with I mean,
Speaker 1: aren't the bandwidths different? Isn't Isn't there someone who made
Speaker 1: sure that this is a different part of the frequency
Speaker 1: before they sold you, um, this bundle? Yeah, exactly. Look,
Speaker 1: you know we spent fifty three billion dollars for it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the laws of physics are the same either in
Speaker 1: the United States or in France or any of the
Speaker 1: other countries. In fact, in the US, the guard band
Speaker 1: are kind of the protection band between the spectrum we
Speaker 1: use and then the spectrum the airlines use. Is one
Speaker 1: of the largest in the world, so there are two
Speaker 1: different spectrums. We have a very large guard band, and
Speaker 1: with us, you know, lowering power levels and other technical
Speaker 1: things around airports, we see absolutely no risk. So Sampath
Speaker 1: gives a sense advertising again a huge company. Um, how
Speaker 1: what's the are you know, managing through the pandemic? How
Speaker 1: has Verizon done? How has Verizon adapted? A couple of things,
Speaker 1: you know, One, we have to balance out four of
Speaker 1: our stakeholders, you know, whether it's employees, customers, shareholders, and
Speaker 1: broader society. So just having that balance has been a
Speaker 1: good framework for us to get through. The second is
Speaker 1: that personal safety is important for our teams. But we
Speaker 1: also realized that the service we operate networks is kind
Speaker 1: of the backbone of the global economy today. It's the
Speaker 1: rails on which most of the economy runs on. So
Speaker 1: for us, it's been a careful balance of the four
Speaker 1: stakeholders as well as ensuring that our networks up and
Speaker 1: running at the same time. Now it's also the same
Speaker 1: time we decided to deploy five G. More broadly, Actually,
Speaker 1: it's been a little faster than what we had planned
Speaker 1: because our construction has not stopped. We've moved applied faster.
Speaker 1: So you know, a little bit of good and bad,
Speaker 1: but overall is just a great time to be here.
Speaker 1: The other thing I've noticed, um from the consumer side,
Speaker 1: people have been using more data than ever on a
Speaker 1: level that they probably wouldn't have imagined. Not just consuming um,
Speaker 1: you know, uh media content like television shows and movies,
Speaker 1: but they're doing all of their banking online, and they're
Speaker 1: starting their cars with their phones and controlling their home
Speaker 1: HVAC systems with their phones. And you know, this was
Speaker 1: what was forecast to happen, but I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: expected it to boom all of a sudden happening side
Speaker 1: of the period of one year. Um, how is that
Speaker 1: for you? Are you still offering unlimited data packages or
Speaker 1: people using fort sixty gigs a month? Yeah, people are
Speaker 1: using a lot of data. As you said, they use
Speaker 1: it for everything. I wish I could say everything is
Speaker 1: for great to you with my kids use it for
Speaker 1: a lot more gaming than they need to. But yes,
Speaker 1: definitely a lot of data consumption that's gone, which is
Speaker 1: why the five G network is critical because one of
Speaker 1: the biggest advantages of five G if you get more
Speaker 1: throughput and more speed. So we're literally adding a ton
Speaker 1: and a ton of a technical term, a ton of
Speaker 1: capacity in the network. All right, Sam Path, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Really appreciate getting your thoughts there,
Speaker 1: Sam Path, so many on a Ryan, chief revenue officer
Speaker 1: for Verizon. I was just typing out a letter to
Speaker 1: some of the producers upstairs at the Quick Take at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Take, a little pitch for them because I said,
Speaker 1: you should have me on more I can talk about cars,
Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, all you want to talk
Speaker 1: about is cars, But I said, look, it's at the
Speaker 1: center of the economy, probably more so UM that any
Speaker 1: time since Henry Ford started his production line, because these
Speaker 1: vehicles use more and more chips, especially as they produce
Speaker 1: UM more hybrids and e vs than they ever have before.
Speaker 1: It's it's connected to the labor story, it's connected to
Speaker 1: UH consumer spending, and it's just amazing. Let's let's focus
Speaker 1: in on the chips part of it, because we have
Speaker 1: not Cool Dougal Uh. He is a senior VP and
Speaker 1: General manager of Automotive UH for qual Calm right now,
Speaker 1: and they are I'm gonna get the biggest not Cool
Speaker 1: correct me if if I'm wrong, the biggest automotive chip
Speaker 1: maker in the world. I would like to see the
Speaker 1: fastest going. Good morning, gentlemen, the fastest growing all right.
Speaker 1: I just know because UM I was at the Munich
Speaker 1: Auto Show. I spent a lot of time at car shows,
Speaker 1: and UM I noticed so many products there, UM, from
Speaker 1: the trucks to the cars to Ducati motorcycles are packing
Speaker 1: qual Calm chips UM, and you can't make them fast enough. Right,
Speaker 1: Are you still at a point where your order books
Speaker 1: are completely full and you just can't ship them quickly enough.
Speaker 1: To the customer. You know, that's right. We've been able
Speaker 1: to stay ahead of the challenges that the industry has
Speaker 1: had because we prioritize automotive over our other businesses, just
Speaker 1: because of the complexity of the auto industry. But we
Speaker 1: consider ourselves MATH bought in a very fortunate position because
Speaker 1: you know, we uh, I would say, human as far
Speaker 1: back as a decade ago, made the call that automotive
Speaker 1: was a very important adjacency forkcom to start to focus
Speaker 1: on and invest in as this market goes through a
Speaker 1: significant amount of transformation, and we are seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of the dividends of the investments we've made back then
Speaker 1: pay out as we look ahead. Now, cool, maybe you
Speaker 1: can settle an argument. Matt and I were just having
Speaker 1: literally here in the studio about you know, I was questioning,
Speaker 1: why are we still having such a pronounced chip shortage
Speaker 1: on a global scale. Matt says, it was, you know,
Speaker 1: just unprecedented increase in demand across a range of products.
Speaker 1: I said, no, no, no, I think it's got to
Speaker 1: come from the supply side. That maybe plant closures in Asia,
Speaker 1: and so that really came on the supply side, but
Speaker 1: so long ago, I know, But I'm just thinking, these
Speaker 1: chip guys have got to figure this thing out, so
Speaker 1: settle this debate for us. I think there are there
Speaker 1: are a few different things going on, and I think
Speaker 1: first of all, electrification is creating the need for new
Speaker 1: architectures for vehicles. So there is a lot of focus
Speaker 1: as you look at the next generation modern cars to
Speaker 1: move towards an architecture that relies on semiconductors much more
Speaker 1: heavily as it has. As you know, the the car
Speaker 1: industry is moving more towards the mobility business, which means
Speaker 1: you have to be able to have a tremendous amount
Speaker 1: of software and semiconductors that power that software. UH. What
Speaker 1: compounds become flexity is as we went through COVID UH,
Speaker 1: the automotive architecture has relied on a variety of different
Speaker 1: vintages of semiconductors. As architectures and automotive haven't evolved for
Speaker 1: a long period of time, there is a dependency on
Speaker 1: older architectures that use semiconductors in lagging process notes. That's
Speaker 1: when most of the complexity is where you've been developing
Speaker 1: semiconductors on older notes for a long period of time
Speaker 1: that that have a lot more complexity to modernize. The
Speaker 1: complexity is much less when you talk about the next
Speaker 1: generation notes. So what we are starting to see is
Speaker 1: a significant transition towards newer notes. You can't completely get
Speaker 1: yourself out of the depends on older notes, but a
Speaker 1: significant faster transition to newer nodes, which obviously places to
Speaker 1: our advantage. I've noticed some some carmakers are just dropping
Speaker 1: functions completely because they don't have the chips to power them.
Speaker 1: For example, about ten years ago, a lot of the
Speaker 1: carmakers started offering the style start technology where your motor
Speaker 1: switches off at a stoplight. UM. Car guys hate it
Speaker 1: right and always try and disable it. Now I've noticed
Speaker 1: some car makers like GM, I'm building a truck on
Speaker 1: their website and they say, uh, no stops to feature anymore.
Speaker 1: So you get fifty dollars back. Are you are you
Speaker 1: going to see more of that you think the cool
Speaker 1: or less of that? Are Are we at a point
Speaker 1: where this is getting better or we're or still worse?
Speaker 1: I think it's an excellent question. I think that's an
Speaker 1: example of the dependency on a small micro controller that
Speaker 1: is in short supply and it's going to be harder
Speaker 1: to get around. The transition we are seeing pollen mat
Speaker 1: is that those steps of functions are moving to software,
Speaker 1: so where you have much harder performance application processors that
Speaker 1: the auto industry is now embracing, and a function like
Speaker 1: stop start can actually be integrated as a software function
Speaker 1: into the higher end processor as opposed to rely on
Speaker 1: a simple discrete micro controller. So you will start to
Speaker 1: see examples like this play out, and that functionality gets
Speaker 1: subsumed into larger application processors that then manage that functionality
Speaker 1: to software. All right, Nicole, here's the money question. When
Speaker 1: is this chip shortage going to be addressed? Here? When
Speaker 1: are we making back to more normalized supply demand. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's a complex question because it
Speaker 1: is a bit different for each automaker. Everybody has a
Speaker 1: slightly different type of challenge too. Smaller automakers are going
Speaker 1: to be able to get around it faster, especially if
Speaker 1: they move to newer architectures. The larger ones that have
Speaker 1: a lot more complexity, lot more diversity across their uh
Speaker 1: their portfolio, have a lot more dependency on the complexity
Speaker 1: of the semiconductor crisis. But I would imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: in the I think we are. I think towards the
Speaker 1: end of twenty two we should certainly start to see
Speaker 1: the industry come out of a lot of this complexity
Speaker 1: on the whole. From our perspective, we have actually been
Speaker 1: able to stay ahead of this challenge, but clearly we
Speaker 1: supply a portion of the overall semiconductor portfolio within a
Speaker 1: vehicle n cool what's the smartest car out there? What's
Speaker 1: the what's the coolest, high highest tech vehicle that you
Speaker 1: could buy right now? Yeah? I think, you know, there
Speaker 1: are several because we have so many different partners and
Speaker 1: customers that we work with. But you know, one thing
Speaker 1: that we are very proud of is the fact that
Speaker 1: the strategy that we've laid out over the last five
Speaker 1: years has now culminated into working called the Snap Drag
Speaker 1: and Digital Chassis, which is basically enabling automakers with the
Speaker 1: newest tech, the latest semiconductors in software, connected to highly
Speaker 1: complex ecosystems, whether it's in the autonomous space or in
Speaker 1: the digital cockpit experience or five connectivity, and bringing that
Speaker 1: together to help automakers make a much larger step up
Speaker 1: in terms of modernization. We've been working with General Motors
Speaker 1: for a number of years, but over twenty years. And
Speaker 1: Mary Burton announced the partnership with us UH can see
Speaker 1: yes a few days ago. We are very part of
Speaker 1: the Altar Cruise work that we've been doing with them,
Speaker 1: which is a level three door to door autonomous service.
Speaker 1: We made an announcement with the bub back in November
Speaker 1: on Ada. Wal Boy has been working with us. Difficult
Speaker 1: to pick one of my favorite customers, all right, Nicole
Speaker 1: Nicole Naldgal, Senior VP and General Manager Automotive for Qualcom.
Speaker 1: I don't know. They need to get more chips out
Speaker 1: into the marketplace. That's what their customers are demanding. We'll
Speaker 1: see how long that plays out. We talked about that
Speaker 1: they'll Take two again buying who are they buying? Other things?
Speaker 1: Premium twelve billion? Large? That size. I didn't know there
Speaker 1: was that arm for words with friends. It's not even scrabble,
Speaker 1: it's an also ran. All right, let's check in with
Speaker 1: an expert here on this deal. I mean Ben Sad
Speaker 1: he is t MT analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. I mean,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking a time here. Is this
Speaker 1: a good deal for Take two? Their stock is trading down? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean thanks for having me and and I think this
Speaker 1: is a very good deal for for Take two, especially
Speaker 1: as when you look at the numbers in this deal.
Speaker 1: First of all, it looks like this is the largest
Speaker 1: video game deal ever from a mini stand point. And
Speaker 1: second of all, Take two previously they had almost ten
Speaker 1: percent of theirselves from mobile, and this deal is gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, the next few years is gonna push that
Speaker 1: to over fifty serves of going to mobile. And that's
Speaker 1: important because mobile is that first is growing. Uh you
Speaker 1: know gaming, Uh certainly, I just I find that so
Speaker 1: hard to believe because I don't know what you can
Speaker 1: do with mobile. I I love video games I have
Speaker 1: ever since, not Pong, but you know, Galactica and all
Speaker 1: the way through, um Super Mario Brothers with Nintendo three
Speaker 1: and none of the Daga up through. You know. Now
Speaker 1: I'm playing Xbox all the time, Call of Duty and
Speaker 1: even Red Dead unfortunately I hate it, but I play it. Um,
Speaker 1: what can you do on mobile? There's like, aside from
Speaker 1: Angry Birds, right, how can it can't even get complex enough?
Speaker 1: You know, First, I would say you actually impressed me
Speaker 1: earlier when you mentioned Collegual Vision, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the oldest came in conforts even before Autari,
Speaker 1: so that was gooding knowledge knowledge there I didn't you
Speaker 1: can know about that. But from gaming, you know, mobile
Speaker 1: has been very successful because we don't target gamers. They
Speaker 1: target uh segment in the population called hyper hyper casual gamers. Right,
Speaker 1: somebody just plays can division a little bit, plays some
Speaker 1: puzzles or something, or farm reels or world with friends,
Speaker 1: and that's why this segment has imploded in the last
Speaker 1: few years, and especially in Asia it has been doing
Speaker 1: really really well. So really, if to focus on the
Speaker 1: hyper casual quote unquote gamers, that's why there is a
Speaker 1: huge success in this platform. I also wonder about the
Speaker 1: lack of gamers. Are we worried that, you know, the
Speaker 1: world just isn't producing enough young people. We're gonna actually
Speaker 1: read a book, We're gonna, we're gonna we're gonna have
Speaker 1: enough video games for sure, But are there enough consumers
Speaker 1: for all this content? Yes? Absolutely, I think overall globally,
Speaker 1: if you include the hyper casual gamers, there's over three
Speaker 1: billion gamers right now. So it's not going to be
Speaker 1: the lack of gamers, especially with this new generation there
Speaker 1: are basically born in gaming. If you think about Fortnight
Speaker 1: and other games like that. Gaming has become much more
Speaker 1: mainstream than news to be back then, and now it's
Speaker 1: all one handed, any billion dollar global industry. So the
Speaker 1: industry is growing, the user basis growing, so it's not
Speaker 1: going to be lack of gamers. I think to your point,
Speaker 1: it's probably the lack of contact. And especially during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: All the major video game makers were impacted by the pandemics,
Speaker 1: but they have lower content that they expected. Uh, and
Speaker 1: talking about this deal here quickly, Uh, Take two kept
Speaker 1: delaying news about g t A six content of for six,
Speaker 1: which is one of the major games being awaited in
Speaker 1: this industry. And this is why this deal kind of
Speaker 1: makes sense to uh, you know, to remove some of
Speaker 1: the headaches in the top line that this company with
Speaker 1: you facing, all right, I mean, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: bringing us up to date on this big deal in
Speaker 1: the gaming space. I mean, Ben sad tmt Annalys, Bloomberg Intelligence, Matt,
Speaker 1: I got, I guess, I gotta. I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: still there, are you a gamer too? Yes? Three years
Speaker 1: gaming I started actually on the Commodore sixty four playing
Speaker 1: space Taxi and Mule, and I've noticed a lot of
Speaker 1: these games are coming back now you can get them
Speaker 1: on your phone. That to me is an interesting thing
Speaker 1: that these um vent games are coming back. Oh yes, look,
Speaker 1: especially the indie companies. They are smaller ones. They make
Speaker 1: games like that because the cord of love of resources.
Speaker 1: And that's why you see Netflix, even Netflix getting into that. So, yes,
Speaker 1: those are coming back because they have a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting stolis there. Very cool. Okay, Paul, you're not a gamer,
Speaker 1: of course not. I'm an adult. Okay, I bet you
Speaker 1: would like Mule. I'm gonna show you Mule during the
Speaker 1: break and then we'll see if, um, if you can
Speaker 1: get into it. It's really it's a market. Okay. I
Speaker 1: aged out after Atari. How about that? The Goldman sacks
Speaker 1: that I grew up with and I competed against was
Speaker 1: investment banking and investment banking, and that was basically and
Speaker 1: bankers and traders, bankers and traders. But since the Great
Speaker 1: was running it then so John Whitehead, uh, it might
Speaker 1: even been like yeah, probably Core designed for a while there.
Speaker 1: I'm going back in the day. Um but they've always
Speaker 1: been the big bank, the big trading desk. But really
Speaker 1: since Great Financial Crisis, they've been really branching out into
Speaker 1: more consumer businesses. And I saw them some news there
Speaker 1: Goldman adds GM credit cards to its Marcus consumer business.
Speaker 1: I just shook my head. But what happened to my
Speaker 1: old Goldman sex? All right? Shanani Basket, Wall Street reporter
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg News. She joins the shore. She follows the
Speaker 1: Wall Street beat closely. Goldman's continuing to expand out its
Speaker 1: consumer business, right, yeah, listen, this is the second big
Speaker 1: partnership that Goldman is announcing here with General Motors. Of course,
Speaker 1: we know they had that big relationship with Apple before.
Speaker 1: What you're seeing here is Goldman start to branch into
Speaker 1: new places, so card business. To what extent do they
Speaker 1: have their ambition to launch their own credit card without
Speaker 1: the co brand? And also what does General Motors give them?
Speaker 1: General Motors already has billions of customers in their own
Speaker 1: credit card business, so now by partner with Goldman, the
Speaker 1: hope is they could really expand on the millions of
Speaker 1: customers they've been able to amass with Apple. To your point,
Speaker 1: General Motors was previews a slee An investment banking client,
Speaker 1: which they then converted now into what you're what do
Speaker 1: you not buy? It, Matt, is that you know what,
Speaker 1: grass grows faster than Goldman Sacks business. This has been
Speaker 1: years in the making, and they seem to have done
Speaker 1: very little with Apple. I mean, they could take over
Speaker 1: your life if they wanted to. Apple and Goldman Sacks
Speaker 1: together you could do everything one stop shop, um from
Speaker 1: savings to checking to investment, credit card, I mean, you
Speaker 1: name it. They're just not doing it. Marcus has taken
Speaker 1: forever to get off the ground. Forever and ever and
Speaker 1: ever and ever we've been talking about it. You were
Speaker 1: in high school to that that's not true. I mean,
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years they have and remember
Speaker 1: these are very highly regulated businesses. To your point, Goldman
Speaker 1: makes a couple hundred million a quarter on their consumer
Speaker 1: business Revolute and and twenty six they came out of
Speaker 1: the gates running, ready to win, picking up customers by
Speaker 1: the millions. And where are they based in Europe exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's been a lot harder in the US for
Speaker 1: the big banks to really get their technology in line,
Speaker 1: which is what makes these partnerships and these efforts so interesting.
Speaker 1: They just need to buy the technology. They already run
Speaker 1: the government, right, so they don't need to worry about regulations.
Speaker 1: The government buys them. Let's the idea of the government
Speaker 1: allowing Goldman Sacks to buy like a Stripe, for example,
Speaker 1: which is a lot more back end infrastructure. The biggest
Speaker 1: payments companies in the US, Matt, the biggest tech companies
Speaker 1: are all back end financial, back of credit cards. They're
Speaker 1: not consumer facing businesses. All Right, we're gonna have the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl this year where so Fi Stadium in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: So far as a brand, I know, so it's a
Speaker 1: brand that Goldman Sacks knows. So to Matt's point, I'm
Speaker 1: almost at the point by a former set Goldman Sacks banker.
Speaker 1: There's a dollar say it's only ten billion dollar company,
Speaker 1: so you buy that with a couple of partners pocket change.
Speaker 1: But at least that gets you a brand awareness, because
Speaker 1: I think the MAT's point, one of the things that
Speaker 1: I'm surprised about is the brand value. The brand awareness
Speaker 1: of Marcus, I think is still obscure to what you
Speaker 1: can get from it. They just launched investing products. They
Speaker 1: have had that savings product. This is the year that
Speaker 1: they're probably going to open a checking account. Once they
Speaker 1: open that checking account is when they can be a
Speaker 1: real full scale bank for consumers in a bigger way.
Speaker 1: But to your point, they are not that yet by
Speaker 1: any means. I mean, remember when we all got so
Speaker 1: excited about the Apple card before it came out. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, Apple is going to release a credit card.
Speaker 1: This is gonna change finance forever. I gotta get one.
Speaker 1: Do you have an Apple card? Do you have an
Speaker 1: Apple Card? No? Neither. When I use Apple Pay, neither
Speaker 1: do I. Of course we all use Apple Pay. But look,
Speaker 1: they could just do so much. The first site that
Speaker 1: I made the Apple page paying my subway. Listen there.
Speaker 1: The car business is a harder one too, because you
Speaker 1: have a Chase Sapphire, or you have City Group, the
Speaker 1: biggest card tossure in the world, your Barclays. You're competing,
Speaker 1: and they both offer better rewards programs than Apple and
Speaker 1: Goldman Sax. Why not, because it's hard to think of
Speaker 1: offering a good rewards program. The numbers are there, all
Speaker 1: you have to do is beat the numbers, and they
Speaker 1: make a ton on interest rates already. They don't need
Speaker 1: to worry about the padding they have that well. Actually,
Speaker 1: the interest rates are not making anything off of right
Speaker 1: now because people are paying back their cards. But this
Speaker 1: is this is why this is now into this year
Speaker 1: a big deal because people are starting to borrow again
Speaker 1: at a much bigger scale than they're taking out any
Speaker 1: other type of loan. And so to get into it
Speaker 1: now is a good time. But yes, it is an
Speaker 1: extraordinarily hard time to get in the card business because
Speaker 1: people want rewards. They want them and all forms, shapes
Speaker 1: and sizes for different products. They want them in crypto sometimes.
Speaker 1: So if you can't give your client everything, then can
Speaker 1: you compete in the space is a perfectly legitimate question.
Speaker 1: All right. I think we're saying basically, this isn't a
Speaker 1: typical Goldman business because it hasn't just got that that
Speaker 1: traction that you would expect, uh, this Goldman effort to do.
Speaker 1: But we'll see how they continue to invest in it,
Speaker 1: and we'll see how it continues to grow into the business.
Speaker 1: Shanelli Bassek, thanks for joining us Wall Street reporter for
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. Joining us here in a Bloomberg interactive Brooker Studio.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can
Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller, I'm on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three. Put on false Sweeney. I'm on
Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney Before the podcast. You can always
Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio