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Speaker 1: This is a sponsor I absolutely embrace, so use that code. Hello,

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Speaker 1: They're happy Wednesday and welcome to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: Chuck Podcast. Let me give you a quick little rundown

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Speaker 1: of what to expect in today's full episode. I will

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Speaker 1: have an answer to the question that I get more

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Speaker 1: often than any other will the midterms happen? But I

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Speaker 1: want to explain it in such a way that kind

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Speaker 1: of builds off of what we talked about on Monday.

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Speaker 1: I will get to that in a minute. My interview

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Speaker 1: today is with author David S. Brown. He's got a

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Speaker 1: great it's a new ish Teddy Roosevelt book out there.

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Speaker 1: It's called In the Arena, came out last year. Many

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Speaker 1: of you know, I'm obsessed with the sort of this

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Speaker 1: fifty year period between eighteen eighty and nineteen thirty in

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Speaker 1: America because it really feels like we are, you know,

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Speaker 1: that fifty year period that basically nineteen ninety through where

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Speaker 1: we are today, that we're kind of living a similar

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Speaker 1: time frame. That was a transition from an agrarian economy

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Speaker 1: to an industrial economy. We had income inequality growing by

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Speaker 1: leaps in back, and the democracy did something about it,

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Speaker 1: and Teddy Roosevelt sort of captured the anxiety of those

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Speaker 1: moments and he became the sort of the lead figure there.

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Speaker 1: But what I also find fascinating about Teddy is is

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Speaker 1: how often and how much similarities there are, at least

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Speaker 1: to his personality that are similar to Donald Trump. So

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Speaker 1: we get into that, and we get into all things Teddy,

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Speaker 1: both the era, how much the current era we live

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Speaker 1: in and the era of sort of Teddy from you know,

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Speaker 1: nineteen hundred to nineteen twenty. Is you know that we're

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Speaker 1: we're in a moment that feels like we need a

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Speaker 1: you know, who's going to be the Teddy Roosevelt, right,

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Speaker 1: Who's going to be the one that says, you know what,

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Speaker 1: this is out of hand tech Titans. We've got to

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Speaker 1: rein you in, so we make a So that's the interview.

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Speaker 1: I'll also going to have my top five list, and

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Speaker 1: this one has to do with thought I'm calling Project

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty two for the Democratic Party. I'll just leave

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Speaker 1: that little tease at that, and you'll get an idea

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Speaker 1: of where I'm going to go with my top five

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Speaker 1: list on that, and of course we'll take some questions

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Speaker 1: and go from there. All right, So let's go back

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Speaker 1: to the to this exercise I want to do, and

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Speaker 1: it wants to I want to build on the story

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Speaker 1: we talked about on Monday, but try to explain why

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Speaker 1: why it's disappearing, and I'm going to lament why it's

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Speaker 1: disappearing because I don't think it should be disappearing, and

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Speaker 1: try to sort of help you discern which one of

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Speaker 1: these alarming stories. How much do you worry about Trump's

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Speaker 1: alarming rhetoric versus his alarming deeds. So look, if you

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Speaker 1: listen to Monday's episode. You know, I spent a good

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Speaker 1: chunk of time slowing things down, walking through a story

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Speaker 1: that I think is easy to miss in this current

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Speaker 1: information ecosystem. I knew that this didn't have easy visuals

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Speaker 1: to show bells and whistles. But what I really believe

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Speaker 1: is that this is the worst sort of This is

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Speaker 1: the worst corruption scandal we've ever had involving an American president.

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Speaker 1: It's bigger than teapot doma bigger than Watergate. And I know,

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Speaker 1: because we're so numb to Trump's transactionalism, we just don't

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Speaker 1: see it right. But that's why I wanted to walk

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Speaker 1: through the details very deliberately, because it's incredibly important and

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Speaker 1: it was. Of course, I'm referring to the Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal story, the report about how Sovereign Wealth Fund of

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Speaker 1: UAE investments into a crypto company that really wasn't going

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Speaker 1: anywhere for Trump that suddenly became relevant. It led to

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Speaker 1: a change in America in the United States of America's

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Speaker 1: policy on AI and chips, and of course led to

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Speaker 1: a pardon of a very controversial figure in the crypto world.

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Speaker 1: And all of it happening while Trump was receiving hundreds

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Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in cash Trump and his family. Now,

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Speaker 1: the story didn't have to metic visuals, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: easy to villainize somebody in a moment. It was a

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Speaker 1: dense it was It's a story that requires some patience

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Speaker 1: in some ways. As I said, right, you need a

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Speaker 1: you need to either the whiteboard on a beautiful mind

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Speaker 1: or clar Danes and Homeland to sort of see how

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Speaker 1: everything is connected. And I really believe that it was

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Speaker 1: the most important story of the weekend and really something

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Speaker 1: that that should be seen. You know that every congressional

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Speaker 1: reporter should be asking every member of Congress about it. Right,

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Speaker 1: that type of story to sort of get Congress off

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Speaker 1: its ass and start worrying about whether presidents are following

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Speaker 1: the constitution. But then the rest of the then the

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Speaker 1: rest of Monday happened. Right, You had the Dan Bongino

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Speaker 1: podcast that the President did where he mused about federalizing elections, which,

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Speaker 1: of course that quick comment coupled with the video footage

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Speaker 1: of the bizarre Telsea Gabbard leven FBI rate of Fulton

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Speaker 1: County in Atlanta with the twenty twenty ballots and boom, Right,

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Speaker 1: you instantly had a bit viral of a feeding frenzy

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Speaker 1: on a specific story. You know, by Tuesday morning, you

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Speaker 1: wake up and it's Kennedy Senator has been Kennedy Center.

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Speaker 1: He's just canceled it, shutting it down for two years. Again,

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Speaker 1: a shiny metal object story became the lead of the day.

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Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, the government was shut down,

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Speaker 1: so we had to reopen that and all of it,

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Speaker 1: shoving what is the perhaps the biggest scandal in American

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Speaker 1: history further and further and further down the information ecosystem ladder.

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Speaker 1: And of course, the sudden burst of rhetorical crazy from

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Speaker 1: Trump involving the midterms led to a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: questions that I regularly get from both listeners, viewers and

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Speaker 1: friends and family starting to panic, you know, is going

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Speaker 1: to is he going to cancel the midterms? And it

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Speaker 1: always leads to this, because how anxious should we all

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Speaker 1: be right now? And you know you can and I

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Speaker 1: get it right. Are things collapsing? Is this different? Is

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Speaker 1: Trump actually serious this time? What guardrails are left that

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Speaker 1: could stop him on this? So here's what I want

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Speaker 1: to do. I don't want to hype your anxiety and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to dismiss it either. What I want

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Speaker 1: to try to do is organize it, because one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes we make in moments like this is

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Speaker 1: confusing volume with importance and mistaking what feels scariest for

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Speaker 1: what's actually doing the most damage. Right. It goes to

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Speaker 1: the original trope with Trump. You know, right, you know

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Speaker 1: which is you know, do you take him literally or

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Speaker 1: seriously or both? Right? And in this case, what I

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Speaker 1: would say is should you worry about what he's saying

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Speaker 1: or should you worry about what he's doing? Now, of

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Speaker 1: course I would argue the answer is yes to everything.

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Speaker 1: And that's what going to get to. So let's start

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Speaker 1: with the story that everyone understands. Immediately, Donald Trump goes

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Speaker 1: on a podcast muses again about federalizing elections, which, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, reminds people of him musing about just I

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Speaker 1: wish I could cancel the midterms, and almost simultaneously, right

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Speaker 1: when you play that, you have your file footage, right,

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Speaker 1: So if you see this on video, you could just

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Speaker 1: show the weird Tulsea Gabbert thing and the striking images

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Speaker 1: out of Georgia of federal agents executing a raid connected

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Speaker 1: to election materials from twenty twenty. You know, we're at

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Speaker 1: nearly six years later. We've had multiple elections in Fulton

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Speaker 1: County ever since. I mean, I sort of look at

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Speaker 1: what he's doing is laughable. I think it's silly, but

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Speaker 1: it's also very serious. Right, we know he's desperate to

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Speaker 1: continue to sell this lie that he somehow was illegitimately

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Speaker 1: thrown out of office in twenty twenty. So Trump talks

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Speaker 1: about overriding elections and then all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 1: see federal agents seizing ballots. Right, the great fear that

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Speaker 1: so many people have. So you don't need a constitutional

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Speaker 1: law degree to fill your stomach drop. That is scary.

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Speaker 1: Rhetoric plus visuals, threat plus spectacle. It's an easy story

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Speaker 1: to tell. It fits in a tweet, it fits in

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Speaker 1: a cairn, and it fits in your nervous system, and

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Speaker 1: it rides the algorithm. Now, let me be very clear,

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Speaker 1: the rhetoric is not harmless. This isn't normal, and it

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be normalized. Election interference talk is as damaging as

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Speaker 1: election interference itself, and using federal power to intimidate state

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Speaker 1: workers matters a great deal. So I don't want to

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to minimize what he has said or

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Speaker 1: what he has done. But here's what I want, I

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Speaker 1: want you to understand, and I want to make this

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Speaker 1: clear because it's essential. What feels existential is not always

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Speaker 1: what's most consequential. So these two events, the rhetoric and

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Speaker 1: the raid, landed together. They functioned together, They were consumed

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Speaker 1: as one narrative event. It almost doesn't matter which technically

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Speaker 1: came first, right, the raid itself or is rhetoric To Bongino,

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Speaker 1: the meaning formed through proximity and imaging. Right, that's how

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Speaker 1: political narratives work now, thanks to these algorithms, thanks to

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Speaker 1: these big tech companies that control the flow of information

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Speaker 1: that you and I get to see. Isn't done through

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Speaker 1: chronology or nuanced but through what shows up next on

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Speaker 1: your screen. And that's why this story dominates. It feels

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Speaker 1: like democracy itself is on the line, and it animates

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. But feeling existential isn't the same

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Speaker 1: thing as actually being the thing that does the most

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Speaker 1: lasting damage. Now, let me talk about the Kennedy Center here.

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Speaker 1: First glance Trump's move to effectively just shut down the

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Speaker 1: Kennedy Center unilaterally under the guise of renovations. I see

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Speaker 1: why some see it as cultural authoritarianism. And symbolically, sure,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty ugly, and if fits a broader pattern of

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Speaker 1: treating institutions as enemies and loyalty tests. But then the

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Speaker 1: context of all this matters, right, and I think it

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Speaker 1: tells us something pretty important about how Trump actually operates.

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Speaker 1: So why did he shut this down? This wasn't a

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Speaker 1: first strike, This was a reaction. He was being humiliated right.

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Speaker 1: Artists were pulling out, performers were canceling, events were unraveling

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Speaker 1: quietly but visibly. The reputational damage was happening big time

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Speaker 1: for Trump. Right the minute Trump touched the Kennedy Center

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Speaker 1: got involved. Everybody wanted out. The opera wanted out. People,

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Speaker 1: every classical, anybody with any level of integrity wanted in.

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Speaker 1: The art community wanted out. And it was humiliating the

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Speaker 1: Kennedy Center. It was humiliating Trump. Right. So Trump wasn't

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Speaker 1: dominating the story. He was losing control of it. So

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Speaker 1: what does he do? This is a classic Trump. He

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Speaker 1: flips the script. Instead of having to deal with they're

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Speaker 1: rejecting me, which is what they are doing, it becomes

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Speaker 1: I shut it down and instead of absorbing a thousand

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Speaker 1: small acts of descent, he creates one big spectacle. Instead

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Speaker 1: of reputational damage accumulating quietly, he centralizes the conflict and

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Speaker 1: reframes it as Trump versus the culture. Right, it's just

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Speaker 1: simple spin. Right, And notice what happens when he does that, right?

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Speaker 1: The story becomes about Trump's power, Trump's move, Trump's dominance.

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Speaker 1: Can he do it? Is it legal? The stories of

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Speaker 1: the cancelations fade, the accountability dissipates, and the noise replaces

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Speaker 1: the consequence. This matters because it's the same dynamic we're

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Speaker 1: seeing everywhere else, which brings me back to Monday. Right.

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Speaker 1: While George and the Kennedy Center sucked all the oxygen

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Speaker 1: story I walked through earlier in the week is already fading.

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Speaker 1: And that should worry us more because that story, the

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Speaker 1: fact that Donald Trump has turned America into a kleptocracy

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Speaker 1: for his personal enrichment, that's the story that ought to

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Speaker 1: be alarming everybody, because he's already doing it, and he's

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Speaker 1: already done it. He has taken these payments, he has

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Speaker 1: enriched himself. This isn't he might he's thinking about he's doing.

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Speaker 1: This is stuff he's done, okay, Foreign sovereign wealth flowing

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Speaker 1: into Trump linked enterprises, policy decisions especially around AI chips

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Speaker 1: and crypto, suddenly aligning with the private financial financial upside, pardons, permissions,

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Speaker 1: and access, all moving in parallel. And as I said,

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Speaker 1: the journal never says it was a quid pro quo.

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Speaker 1: But all you have to do is look right. The

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Speaker 1: modern corruption doesn't look like a brown paper bag anymore.

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Speaker 1: It looks like timing, proximity and mutual benefit. Each step

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Speaker 1: defensible on its own and technically legal in some sort

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Speaker 1: of byzantine way of looking at it, but it is

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Speaker 1: damning when taken together. And it is illegal when you

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Speaker 1: realize it's being done by the President of the United States,

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Speaker 1: and violation of the Constitution. And here's the moment that

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Speaker 1: really sort of crystallized all this for me. So on

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Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, I was scanning my usual mountain of newsletters

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Speaker 1: right by us. You know, lots of good ones out there,

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Speaker 1: lots of mediocre ones, but I read a lot of

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Speaker 1: them good faith actors, smart people, outlets that are deeply

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Speaker 1: focused on democratic norms. And the foreign policy story was

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Speaker 1: gone from a couple of them that I was shocked

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Speaker 1: to see it gone from. But the election rhetoric that

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Speaker 1: was everywhere, the midterm anxiety that was dominant. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my friend Bill Crystal, who does the Morning Shots newsletter

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Speaker 1: for The Bulwark on Tuesday, not a single mention of

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Speaker 1: this Wall Street Journal story anymore. Look, they did a

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Speaker 1: lot on Monday, but they were obsessed with the midterm

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Speaker 1: issue with playbook. Had nothing on that had a slew

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Speaker 1: on the midterm issue. We all know how how this

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Speaker 1: stuff right, Some stuff travels more, some stuff rides the

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Speaker 1: algorithm right, And the way the independent media landscape works,

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Speaker 1: a lot of editorial folks examine what's getting attention what isn't,

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Speaker 1: and they may lean more heavily on the stories that

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Speaker 1: are getting more traction, even if there are other stories

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Speaker 1: that are arguably more important. And I'm not calling it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's bad faith. I don't think it's corruption.

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Speaker 1: But it is sort of how our information ecosystem is

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Speaker 1: kind of doing exactly what it's designed to do. It

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Speaker 1: rewards stories that are visually immediate and emotionally legible, and

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Speaker 1: quietly pushes aside stories that are technical, slow and complicated.

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Speaker 1: It and might not be as gripping to as large

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Speaker 1: enough of an audience. And that's exactly why the story

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Speaker 1: of the of the creation of the American leptocracy is

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Speaker 1: much more dangerous. So it brings me back to the

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Speaker 1: anxiety question and something I want to be very clear about.

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Speaker 1: As alarmed as we all are by some of Trump's

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Speaker 1: rhetoric and by the sense that there are no guardrails left,

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Speaker 1: the truth is a bit more complicated because what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is every time we lament this idea that there are

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Speaker 1: no guardrails, you start to see that some of them

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Speaker 1: do work, not all of them, not consistently, but some

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Speaker 1: of them some of the time. And it's interesting for

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Speaker 1: us to realize when they do work and when they

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Speaker 1: don't work. And understanding which ones work and why is

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Speaker 1: the difference, I think, between whether you should panic and

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Speaker 1: whether you should view it as some sort of strategy.

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Speaker 1: So let me give you two examples. First, there's Minneapolis

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Speaker 1: after the killing of two Americans, and let's just say

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Speaker 1: it took two American deaths for Trump to do this.

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Speaker 1: Trump did something almost never does rhetorically. He back down,

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Speaker 1: He sat down Senate Democrats, he negotiated, he accepted the

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Speaker 1: premise that they were going to shut down the government

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Speaker 1: if he didn't negotiate constraints on ice, and he said, okay, right,

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Speaker 1: here's a guy that his critics consistently say, you know,

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Speaker 1: doesn't listen to anything, there's no and he did on

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Speaker 1: this one. So why was it because of norms? No,

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Speaker 1: we know he doesn't care about norms. Was it because

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Speaker 1: someone made a better constitutional argument to him? Sorry? Or

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Speaker 1: was it because the political costs suddenly became undeniable even

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Speaker 1: for Trump? Right? Public opinion has shifted dramatically on this issue.

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Speaker 1: Republicans got nervous. The backlash wasn't abstract anymore, and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just coming from Democrats that owned the Libs. It

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Speaker 1: was measurable. And Trump does respond to measurable pain, at

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Speaker 1: least political pain in Poland look at the Fed. We

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Speaker 1: heard all the noise, the threats, the posturing, and then

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Speaker 1: the choice came down to picked Kevin Walsh, a conventional,

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Speaker 1: even market reassuring pick. He didn't pick a sickaphan, a

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Speaker 1: guy like Kevin Hassett, who might have been somebody who

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Speaker 1: would have just yes, you know, been a yes man

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Speaker 1: for whatever Trump wanted on interest rates. So why did

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Speaker 1: he do that? Well, one guardrail. He does seem to

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Speaker 1: care about our markets, right, and he cares about what

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Speaker 1: some donors think, his donors, and he certainly cares about

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Speaker 1: what the elites that he interacts with think. So the

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Speaker 1: guardrail wasn't the idea of FED independence. It was the

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Speaker 1: risk of immediate, tangible financial consequences for him and his friends.

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Speaker 1: So it's an interesting pattern that you've watched over. It's like,

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Speaker 1: every once in a while he responds to a guardrail,

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Speaker 1: but it's never that for the reason you want him

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Speaker 1: to respond to a guardrail. It's for usually some sort

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Speaker 1: of personal cost and personal nervousness. So it does seem

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Speaker 1: as if Trump accepts push back when when three conditions

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Speaker 1: are met. First, the cost is immediate, it's not theoretical,

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Speaker 1: it's not long term, it's immediate. Second, the backlash is

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Speaker 1: something he sees poll numbers, market drops, donor anger, maybe

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Speaker 1: even a ratings issue. Right, It's not an editorial, it's

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Speaker 1: not a whole bunch of statements, right. And if the

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Speaker 1: pressure is across the board, right, lots of people and

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Speaker 1: lots of different parts of his life going hey, are

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Speaker 1: you sure about this? Are you sure? About this. Are

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Speaker 1: you sure about this? Right? It was. It's why he

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Speaker 1: seemed to back down a bit on Minneapolis. And I

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Speaker 1: know some of you are going to say he hasn't

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Speaker 1: back down that much, But for Trump, he's back down.

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Speaker 1: Right what happened? You had Republicans saying, oh whoa, well

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Speaker 1: this went too far. The same with the FED. But

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Speaker 1: all those reasons are also explained why it's so hard

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Speaker 1: for the foreign policy monitoration story to get legs. Because

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Speaker 1: it fails those three tests, the costs are delayed. We

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Speaker 1: won't see the impact of selling out American form policy,

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Speaker 1: creating loopholes for China to catch up. We won't know

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Speaker 1: this until after it's too late. The consequences are on

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Speaker 1: a spreadsheet, and none of us like to read spreadsheets.

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Speaker 1: And of course the backlash is a bit fragmented. There's

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Speaker 1: no market crash, there's no single dramatic moment, there's no

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Speaker 1: image on cable news. Just a slow monetization of power.

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Speaker 1: And we see it almost every week when he signs,

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Speaker 1: when he releases the list of people he's pardoned, and

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Speaker 1: you start to go through it and you realize most

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Speaker 1: of them were represented by friends of Trump, and he

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Speaker 1: just was monetizing, helping them win fees from these rich crooks.

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Speaker 1: And it also explains why I'm less worried about Trump's

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Speaker 1: election rhetoric than I am about what he's doing in

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Speaker 1: the form. Elections in the United States are decentralized by design.

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Speaker 1: States run them, counties administer them. The diffusion isn't a weakness.

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Speaker 1: It's actually a firewall. Right. Trump doesn't control it. Republicans

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Speaker 1: quietly know he can't override it without detonating their own power.

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Speaker 1: They can't do it. They'd have to pass Acts of Congress.

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Speaker 1: There's so many different ways in order to make this happen.

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Speaker 1: It's for it to happen, the Republican Republic would essentially

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Speaker 1: have to collapse. We'd have to suspend the Constitution, and

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Speaker 1: we're not. And he doesn't have that kind of power.

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Speaker 1: And now, ironically, I think politically, every time Trump muses

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Speaker 1: about interfering with elections, he doesn't suppress turnout, which I

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Speaker 1: know is of fear some people have. He fuels it.

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Speaker 1: He energizes opposition voters, he repels swing voters who just

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Speaker 1: want to get rid of the chaos, and he deepened

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Speaker 1: cynicism among his own bank so if you were trying

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Speaker 1: to design the dumbest possible strategy heading into the midterm election,

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Speaker 1: you'd be hard pressed to beat the one Trump is

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Speaker 1: doing right now, talk about if you're on the Democratic

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Speaker 1: side of the isle, you should want him talking about this.

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Speaker 1: All it does is make it saved you money on

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Speaker 1: get out the vote. Donald Trump is going to get

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Speaker 1: your base out to vote, and then he's sending a

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Speaker 1: message that he thinks the whole thing is rigged anyway,

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Speaker 1: and he's sending a message to his own base that,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe he's sort of winking and nodding, don't worry,

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Speaker 1: I'll rig it, so it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: They're not going to show up.

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Speaker 1: So, yes, the rhetoric's extraordinarily dangerous, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to dismiss it, but it is institutionally constrained and politically

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Speaker 1: incredibly self defeating. That's not the case with this foreign

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Speaker 1: policy story. Congress is supposed to be the check here.

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Speaker 1: The voters are never going to be the check on

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Speaker 1: this story. It's going to take him a while to

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Speaker 1: get it. This Congress has shown no interest in investigating

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Speaker 1: the leader of their own party, so that story is

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Speaker 1: just going to keep going he's going to keep selling

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Speaker 1: foreign policy decisions to the highest bidder. Sometimes he'll do

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Speaker 1: it right out in the open. Sometimes they'll do it quietly.

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Speaker 1: I mean times it feels like Venezuela and the oil

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Speaker 1: is he's just doing it right out in the open.

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Speaker 1: Most of this he'll do out of view. So the

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Speaker 1: point is this, No, I don't think the country's collapsing tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: and no, I don't think elections are going to get

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Speaker 1: canceled twenty twenty six. But I do think we're watching

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Speaker 1: something more subtle and more corrosive. Democracies don't usually fall

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Speaker 1: from who's they actually erode. They look more like what happened,

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Turkey, what's happening in Hungary. They erode

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Speaker 1: when corruption becomes complicated, normalized, and easier to ignore than

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Speaker 1: the latest outrage, cultural outrage. You know, bad bunny. You know,

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Speaker 1: pay attention to bad Bunny, but don't pay attention to

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Speaker 1: the selling out of American foreign policy. So what Trump

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Speaker 1: does say threatens democracy symbolically, but what Trump does corrodes

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Speaker 1: it materially, and our information ecosystem, whether it intends to

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Speaker 1: or not, keep steering us towards the loudest, scariest stories,

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Speaker 1: while the most consequential ones fade in the background. That's

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Speaker 1: the real danger. It's not the panic, it's not the calm.

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Speaker 1: It's miss placed attention and mist placed concern. There used

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Speaker 1: to be a publication out there that once reminded us

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Speaker 1: democracy dies in darkness, but sometimes that darkness is also noisy,

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Speaker 1: and the democracy can die in a lot of distraction

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Speaker 1: and noise. All right, on that uplifting note, let's sneak

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Speaker 1: in a break and when we come back, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk a little Teddy Roosevelt with David S. Brown.

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Speaker 1: Do you hate hangovers? We'll say goodbye to hangovers. Out

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00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: of Office gives you the social buzz without the next

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00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: day regret. Their best selling out of Office gummies were

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00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,359
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00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: and enhance creativity and relaxation. With five different strengths, you

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Speaker 1: can tailor the dose to fit your vibe, from a

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444
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Speaker 1: you have heard me talk to da that history is rhyming,

445
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: that there's a familiarity in our recent history early twentieth

446
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: century with what the current situation is. We're in a

447
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: we're in a we've got these big tech titans. We

448
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: had the big robber barons. And you've probably heard myself

449
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: another say that, you know, boy, the country really needs

450
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: a Teddy Roosevelt. And what's fascinating about Teddy Roosevelt is

451
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: that he's a rorschach Test. If you're a liberal, you

452
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: love certain parts of him. If you're a conservative, you

453
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: love other parts of him. He is somebody. He is

454
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: like Lincoln in Washington and maybe to a lesser extent, Eisenhower,

455
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: where it's the rare biography you can write, where there

456
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: are interested people on the left and the right, and

457
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: there are people that are devoted to say, no, he's

458
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: really a progressive. No, he's really a conservative. He's a disruptor,

459
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: he's this, and Teddy is definitely one of those. And

460
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: let's just say I devour every Teddy Roosevelt book. I

461
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: think I've only read more Lincoln books than Teddy Roosevelt books.

462
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: He is clearly one of the most fascinating Americans we've

463
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: ever had. My guest today is David Brown. He's got

464
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: one of the more recent additions in the Teddy Roosevelt Library,

465
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: if you will, is called in the arena, which of

466
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: course is a homage to his man in the Arena

467
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: speech back in the day. And this is a it

468
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: is it is not just the Teddy of the Roosevelt

469
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: presidency or the Roosevelt this it really is as much

470
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: an attempt to capture the zeitgeist and the culture that

471
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: was Teddy, that inspired Teddy, and the culture that he

472
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: helped try to create and build. So that's my intro.

473
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: David hod I do mysell in your book pretty well?

474
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: Wonderful?

475
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: Yes, he's a magnet for historians like yourself, right, like

476
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: Teddy is just there's in the only challenge I imagine

477
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: you had was writing something unique that that others hadn't attempted.

478
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: You know, you're right, here's a magnet. Not because not

479
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: just because it's an incredible life. Yeah, really an incredible life,

480
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: but that life it tells us so much about America.

481
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: And I think what I think, what an a story

482
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: and can bring to it, you know, five years from now,

483
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: twenty five years from now is the perspective of the culture.

484
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: And so as you note, you know, there's something of

485
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: the times in this book. You know, it's a life,

486
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: but it's also at times and historians also bring, you know,

487
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: additional perspective. They've seen additional presidents, they've seen people use

488
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: and the used roseults reputation. We might read Roosevelt's actions

489
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: differently in say nineteen fifty or twenty twenty five, then

490
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: we would have in nineteen ten in the moment. So

491
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 2: in that sense, I think that there's almost always something,

492
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: something fresh, something interesting perspective that the storying can bring

493
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: to a topic.

494
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: How did you tackle this? I mean, there's, like I said,

495
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: there is so much incredible scholarship on Teddy. You know,

496
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: did you go how much core sort of you know,

497
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: back to letters and all of that sort of the

498
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: ground zero type research. How much did you either devour

499
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: or avoid other takes on him? What was your balance? Yeah?

500
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: I read the major biographies, but made notes selectively because

501
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: I didn't want too much of the perspective to sink in,

502
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: And I focused most of my research on Roosevelt's writings, letters,

503
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: journals at the Journal when he was younger, and as

504
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: many many books. He was a voluminous writer.

505
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: He wrote.

506
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: He wrote many books and also the private papers, some

507
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: of the newspapers, the culturea milliear the people who knew him,

508
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: the people who loved him, the people who didn't love him,

509
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: Because I wanted to get a broad sense of the

510
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: man and the times, because I think that the two

511
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: go hand in hand.

512
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm always curious of why an author chooses their subjects,

513
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: and more importantly, when they choose their subjects. Is there

514
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: something that was happening in the moment that made you

515
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: turn there and you realize I want to unpack this,

516
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: tell me walk me through. You've done a few other books,

517
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: and so what drew you to Roosevelt? And when did

518
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: you decide you wanted to tackle Teddy?

519
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: So about twenty or thirteen years ago I started an

520
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: a biography of Henry Adams and Henry Adams from the

521
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: Great Adams family. It was a neighbor of Roosevelt's in Washington.

522
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: Roosevelt was, of course living in a White House, then

523
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: Henry Adams was living well what is now the Hay

524
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: Adams Hotel.

525
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: Right across the street, although I think it's technically the

526
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: building was across the street from the across the bed. Anyway,

527
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: there's some yeah, there's some origin story of the hotel itself,

528
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: but yes, basically right there, Walkable's lists so.

529
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: They knew each other. And Henry Adams was generation older,

530
00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: old money, likes her dry wit, somewhat acerbic, and he

531
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: saw not unlike Mark Twain, he saw Roosevelt as something

532
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: of a big boy. Mark Twain said route to someone

533
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: said basically, this is this is, this is Tom Sawyer.

534
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: We have Tom Sawear in the White House. And I

535
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: just found roosevelts excuse me. Adams's take on Roosevelt's so interesting,

536
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: so pungent, so provocative, and it kind of drew me in.

537
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: And also I think writing that biography of Henry Adams,

538
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: it drew me to the late nineteenth century. So I

539
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: was starting my graduate work. I tend to focus on

540
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: America in the early Republic seventeen nineties, eighteen twenty, eighteen thirties,

541
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: and there was a lot there in the late nineteenth century.

542
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: Early wasn't aware of cultural history, intellectual history. So I

543
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: do Henry Adams. I'm thinking there's a lot there about

544
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: intellectual life at that time. Now I'm interested in the politics,

545
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: so i'd obviously read something. You know, some things about

546
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: Roosevelt before, but never systematic, never in depth, And so

547
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: I started to read just my own curiosity and the

548
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: deeper I got into it, the more I said to myself,

549
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: you know what I really want to write on this guy.

550
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 2: I want to write a biography. So it was deep

551
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: in COVID back in twenty twenty, and that's when I

552
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: started the project.

553
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: What makes Roosevelt so intriguing to me is, like Lincoln

554
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: and Washington, he's a president. And like I said to

555
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: a lesser Eisenhower that anybody running for president, far left

556
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: or far right, moderate, centrist, you name it, would love

557
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: to be compared favorably to said president. Right, And I have,

558
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: I've been having an uncomfortable intellectual exercise which that I've

559
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: and i'm and I'm gonna I'm this is with trepidation

560
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: that I and that I tiptoe on this, which is

561
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Teddy Roosevelt and the shocking amount of

562
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: similarities that there are. There are some important differences, and

563
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: if you're a fan of Teddy and not a fan

564
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: of Trump, you probably recoil at this. But you know,

565
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: there's there's there is something about Teddy in the time

566
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: that he served of narcissism, right, I mean the original

567
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: great quote the bride at every wedding, and the and

568
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: the corpse at every funeral was about him, right, you

569
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: know it was it was said of him by his daughter. Right.

570
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: What do you make of it? And how much? How

571
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: much do you see of it? And how did you

572
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: avoid it? How did you write about it?

573
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: Sure know?

574
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: How did it? How did it influence you?

575
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: Sure I make some notes of this late in the book,

576
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: last all pages. The narcissism was there. The question is

577
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: how do you deal with the narcissism? And uh and

578
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: Roosevelt's it was.

579
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: All about Roosevelt.

580
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: But there was this sort of generosity underlying Roosevelt, and

581
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: that generosity I think really drew people to him. Of course,

582
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 2: Trump has a wide appeal as well. Some of the

583
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 2: similarities are a tremendous charisma on the part of both men.

584
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: The loyalists, they've really been loyalists for both men. Roosevelt

585
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: had a broader reach. Roosewolt got I think like fifty

586
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: six percent of the popular vote in two thousand. Excuse

587
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 2: me the nineteen oh four.

588
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: As an important point you made that I didn't fully

589
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: appreciate that it was the It was actually the most

590
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: dominant vote total we'd had really in the with the

591
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: country that big at the time.

592
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. So he was really popular. He

593
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 2: could really cross over. Trump doesn't have the crossover appeal,

594
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: but to the loyalists, they could do no wrong. Roosevelt's

595
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: was seen by party regulars in the GUP as being

596
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: a threat. He was never supposed to be presidents. He

597
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: was a war hero, and they made him a veep,

598
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: and of course McKinley wasn't supposed to get shot and killed.

599
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: But then Rosald becomes presidents and he's so popular that

600
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: they can't do anything with him until Roosevelt decides that

601
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: he's going to leave after a couple of terms and

602
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: then once the crown back, and at that time, for

603
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: GOP regulars, this sort of gave currency to their concerns

604
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: for the last few years that Roosevelt was a maverick,

605
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: he was a loose cannon. He could not be trusted

606
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: for party regularity, and they opposed him, and they were

607
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: able to essentially keep them from getting the nomination in

608
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: nineteen twelve, and in Roosevelt said that this was stolen,

609
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: that the people wanted him, and of course he then

610
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: broke away from the party, which is said that Trump

611
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: had talked about doing in twenty sixty if the GOP

612
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: at that time had kept the nomination from him.

613
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: Don't we credit Teddy with primaries? Essentially that that that

614
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: that that sort of It was right after that that

615
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: we I think Oregon had the first presidential primary.

616
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: There were there were, there were, there were a few,

617
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 2: and they're about thirteen. But in raise what actually got

618
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: more votes and delegates in these thirteen primaries? Right the

619
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: sitting president did. And there's a number of reasons why

620
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: these these these these primaries would expand, but one was

621
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: that it was seen that that perhaps that people need

622
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: to have more say and we would look back to,

623
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: for example, nineteen twelve and say so, clearly the party

624
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: wanted Taft to get the nomination, but clearly most garden

625
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: variety Republican voters wanted Roosevelt.

626
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: It's obviously the era that I think makes this an

627
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: extra magnet for me right now. And there's always been

628
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: something about Teddy. Did it take a rich guy to

629
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: go after rich guys? Did it? Meaning you know that

630
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: the progressive populist politics of that era only gets traction

631
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: when a rich guy turned on rich guys. That's too simplistic.

632
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 2: Not necessarily, he was a different kind of rich guy

633
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: like Henry Adams.

634
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: He was old money and inherited inherited well, which is

635
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: always important. I always find it fascinating. I track, I

636
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: love to see right now where billionaires go right, new

637
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: billionaires support Trump. Inherited billionaires support the left right now.

638
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: It's just an interesting era that we're in.

639
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. Yeah. So Roosevelt did not like new money.

640
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: Roosevelt thought that that new money was essentially, you know,

641
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: building factories and whatnot, which he recognized the country needed

642
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 2: if it was going to be strong. But and his

643
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: notion of the string of his life sitting in office

644
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: all day just making money, there was nothing romantic, There

645
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: was nothing important about that. It's going to lead to

646
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: the country becoming soft and not sharp any longer. So

647
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 2: he did feel I think, when he called, for example,

648
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: JP Morgan into the White House, that there was a

649
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: sense of superiority on his side in reading, in culture

650
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: and background. And if Morgan had a bit more money,

651
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: which of course he did, that was okay because Roosevelt

652
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: had had some money too. But more important, I think

653
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: I think Roosevelt thought that he Roosevelt understood how money

654
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: should be used, and people like this new rich They

655
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: liked imagination. They didn't know what was best for the country.

656
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: They only understood what was best for themselves.

657
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: Why do you think he had this this sense because

658
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean, is it because he went on his travels

659
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: or you know, he did seem to at least understand

660
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: you couldn't concentrate this much power in the in in

661
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: in with these the titans of that era. But was

662
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: his motivation because he didn't want them stronger than the government,

663
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: or was his motivation because the little guy was getting hurt?

664
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 2: I use all those things.

665
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: You know.

666
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: He never called himself a populous and there was a

667
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: populist party at that time, is a gram farmers, and

668
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: he thought that they were just radical and vaguely ridiculous.

669
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: But there was a populistic bone in Roosevelt. He wrote

670
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: to John Hey, the Secretary of State, after he Roosevelt

671
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 2: had toured the country, and he said, you know, seeing

672
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: these these common people out there who were standing in

673
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, by a train stession for two hours in

674
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: the wintertime, you know, waiting to and we talk. Uh,

675
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 2: they're so sincere. There's so they're such hard workers. You know,

676
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 2: we we we need to we need to do right

677
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 2: by these people. He did believe that, he did believe

678
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: that he that the presidency, that the government had a

679
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: responsibility the people. So there was something also, I think

680
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: a little bit of old money about that, the sense

681
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: of paternalism where they're they're social work economic betters so called,

682
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: and we need to take care of them. That's our obligation.

683
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: Also though when when he's thinking about obtaining the trusts.

684
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: But I think I think there's something about Roosevelt that

685
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: is vaguely consulted, that that these that these titans, that

686
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: they should have so much just because they invented something

687
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: or they have a factory, and why should they have

688
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: so much say in our politics? Why should why should

689
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: they be able to put politicians in their pockets through

690
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: through through lobbying. So I think he sincerely saw them

691
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: something of a potential thread to the Republic in a

692
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: different way, but not unlike say Jefferson with the First

693
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: National Bank and Jackson with the Second National Bank, looking

694
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: at money congealing together and saying, if this continues, this

695
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 2: could be a real problem for the Republic moving forward.

696
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: So let's let let's do this intellectual exercise. What would

697
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: Teddy be doing right now with the aim like with

698
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: the with the with with the AI technology that we're

699
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: trying to build, the infrastructure and the concentration of wealth

700
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: that we're experiencing at the moment.

701
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: I think if it was President's with AI, he would

702
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: want to harness AI. He would he would want to

703
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: use it to make you know, as America as powerful

704
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: as possible. That would also tie him with the second

705
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: part of your question, because so these people who have

706
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: this this this this resource, some of the billionaires, I

707
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: suspect that he would look upon them not unlike he

708
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: looked upon the rich class of his own day, which

709
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: is they have a purpose. The purpose is to continue

710
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: to be patriotic and contribute to the growing wealth of America.

711
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: And they could have their nice houses and and and

712
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 2: and and whatnot. But but I think he would draw

713
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: a real line at the kind of influence that these

714
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: people would have. So I wouldn't see him inviting billionaires

715
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: to be in his official cabinet family.

716
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 1: And yet he's super transactional, particularly in foreign affairs.

717
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, he's he's savvy. He looks to get things done.

718
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: He wants to build a canal, not not in Panama

719
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: because there's no country in Panama, but there's a province

720
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: in Colombia.

721
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: Huh.

722
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: And when the Colombian Senate sort of bulks a little

723
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: bit on what was supposed to be a done deal,

724
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: then he will essentially, you know, support the independence movement,

725
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: which which would not have succeeded without just.

726
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: Let's just be let you're being a little gentle here.

727
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: He manufactures this movement in this separatist region called Panama

728
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: a little bit. There were certainly some independence people that

729
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: were but it you know, it's it was a pretext, right.

730
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: He samships and he sends men, and they will support

731
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: and in a sense, it's it's what John F. Kennedy

732
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: tried and failed to do with.

733
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: Uh.

734
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, the uh, the Cubans they the quote unquote lead it.

735
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: But but but there was American support, but there wasn't

736
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: enough American support. Rose, I'm sure that there was that

737
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 2: there was more than enough American support. So you're right,

738
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 2: this is this is trans is actual here. He's very

739
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: happy to play both with Columbia. When Columbia wouldn't play

740
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: ball with him any longer, he gave him what the boy.

741
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important I know from

742
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

743
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

744
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself

745
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

746
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

747
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

748
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,879
Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

749
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

750
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751
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752
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753
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755
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756
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757
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758
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759
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760
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761
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762
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763
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764
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number

765
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766
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767
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768
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769
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Speaker 1: the rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me,

770
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: life insurance is something you should really think about it,

771
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: especially if you've got a growing family. This is where

772
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: you know, when you look deeper at rule Roosevelt's sort

773
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: of point of view and actions in the Western hemisphere,

774
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: the actually pale in comparisons to Trump's beltic.

775
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: You know, it was a different time, and so it's

776
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 2: a period when that type of American imperialism, the so

777
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 2: called Banana Republic era, is just beginning to take off.

778
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 2: We had this early phase of American form policy, you know,

779
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: Ceptain American Revolution, we're very Atlantic facing. And then you know,

780
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: by the time you get to the eighteen twenties, thirties

781
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: and forties and you're talking about bringing Florida and Texas

782
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: into the Union. Then we become a golf golf of Mexico,

783
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: golf of America, depends on who you talk to these days.

784
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 2: That becomes the focus of our foreign policy, and then

785
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: American it becomes this beginning of a global power in

786
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: the late nineteenth century with with with the acquisition Philippines

787
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: and whatnot. So the Central in South America had always

788
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 2: been sort of an abstraction. There was the Mono doctrine,

789
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 2: but America didn't really have much power to police that.

790
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: There were there were there were various individual filibuster attempts

791
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: by American citizens with armies and whatnot private, although some

792
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: were sort of okay by congressman senators to cut out

793
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 2: parts of Central and South America. It's really not until

794
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: about nineteen hundred. It's all through the nineteenth century.

795
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: I mean, look, there's a whole part in the Grant

796
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: Presidency where there's where a bunch of Republicans want Canada

797
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: as reparations for the UK's for Britain's role in the

798
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: in the Civil War. Sure too. I mean like it

799
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: seems like we had all sorts of ambitions to grab

800
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: parts of the Western hemisphere in the nineteenth century, right.

801
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I got about one third of Mexico. So

802
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: with with Roosevelt, and I'd also extend this to look

803
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: at Woodrow Wilson. There then is is I think, I

804
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: think more over not simply using filibusters or threads, but

805
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: actually you know, going into countries and and and putting

806
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: putting some teeth into the Monroe doctrine.

807
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: Well, and that was the thing I mean he almost

808
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: wanted to I mean, it was interesting you used a phrase.

809
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: I think he viewed it as a police you know,

810
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: he wanted to police the governments in the Western hemisphere,

811
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, know what was going on, right, And it

812
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: was almost the first use of the idea that we're

813
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: going to be the global police force. Yeah, you know.

814
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: So I think that there Bracklin Roosevelt related distantly, sort

815
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: of gets the credit for the American century and for

816
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: this notion of when the Second World Wars over, re

817
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 2: going to the four policemen, you know, sort of take

818
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: care of the world. And I think a lot of

819
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: these ideas, including the social welfare state with the progressive

820
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: here under ro results. I think actually the antecedents are

821
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: there around nineteen five, nineteen ten, and it's a result,

822
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: but it's with the different Roosevelt. And so certainly you

823
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: know Roosevelt have been the top cop in New York

824
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 2: when he was a commissioner, and he took policing very seriously.

825
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: He applies the concept not just to you know, a

826
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: city or a state, but to an entire country. If

827
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 2: countries will not live up to the obligations, he said,

828
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 2: the name must be they must be policed. Of course,

829
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: what we know is happening here also is that there's

830
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: there's a game that's being played by European countries as well,

831
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 2: which is to get some of these Latin American countries

832
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: into debt and then it would be made to pay

833
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 2: by for example, leasing a ports, we're opening up markets.

834
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: And Roosevelt was very very quick to ensure that, for

835
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: example Great Britain and in Germany, we're not going to

836
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: be effective doing that, violating the minour doctrine. But it

837
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: was also tactic, as you suggested, that he from time

838
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: to time employed as well.

839
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: I want to go back to his days in New

840
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: York politics, because that was a very machine heavy wing

841
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: of the Republican Party in the eighteen eighties, in the

842
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: eighteen nineties, was he seen as a good party Man

843
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties and nineties because of because he

844
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: was connected to wealthy patrons of Manhattan, or was he

845
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: already being identified as a bit of a disruptor inside

846
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: the party.

847
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 2: It was always a bit of a disruptor. He was

848
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 2: connected to wealthy people in New York. But many of

849
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: these wealthy people, including much of the people in his

850
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: graduating class at Harvard, thought he was nuts for getting

851
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: involved in politics, at least politics at the local level.

852
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: If somebody wants to bring you into their cabinet and

853
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: make you Secretary of States, well then what kind of

854
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 2: a service. But Rosewock came in at the low end,

855
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: and he was questioned about this some of his friends,

856
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: and he said, you know, either either I'm going to

857
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 2: be part of the willing class or I'm not, and

858
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: I aim to be part of the ruling class. In

859
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: other words, the ruling class had been losing its share

860
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: ever since whenever eighteen under eighteen twenty, eighteen thirty, the

861
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: Patricius right, and so Roosevelt is going to, in effect

862
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 2: try to reassert that no bless oblige. So in democratic age,

863
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: well you've got to get involved. He gets involved, but

864
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 2: he was not he was not a great party man.

865
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: There's a maverick. There was a lot of talk in

866
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty four about the Republican Party's presidential candidate, James G. Blaine,

867
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: as someone had the continental liar from the state of Maine,

868
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 2: very controversial, reputed to be the dirty politician, had taken bribes,

869
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 2: and so Roosevelt fought very hard as a young man

870
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: to try to stop that nomination, and of course he

871
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: couldn't at that time, but there was a real question

872
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 2: would you stay with the party or would you bolt?

873
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: And Rooselt understood that if you bolt it, if he

874
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 2: was not regular, then he would have really no chance.

875
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: There was no way he was going to become a

876
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 2: Democrat at that time. The Democrat Party in the North

877
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 2: was associated with the immigrants, with Irish, in the South

878
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: was associated with secession. And so he swallowed real hard

879
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:01,359
Speaker 2: and he became a regular politician in eighteen eighty four,

880
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 2: and he gave campaign speeches on behalf of Blaine. But

881
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: that was of the moment that was opportunistic, and he

882
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: was always free. He thought to go his own way,

883
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: and sometimes he did.

884
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: Maybe this is the fault of some of the educators.

885
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: I have, But I've always tied William Jennings Bryan and

886
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: Roosevelt oddly more together than separate. And yet they were

887
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: on opposing tickets, Right, What did you think of William

888
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 1: Jennings Bryan.

889
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: So he was not a big Brian fan, probably for

890
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: a few reasons. Some would be political. He just didn't

891
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 2: like Brian's politics. Brian was a populist. He was also

892
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: a Democrat. Brian was concerned with, for example, enlarging the

893
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 2: country's money supply with free silver. Roosevelt's on the East coast.

894
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: It's the gold standard all the way. And so Brian

895
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 2: represents to conservatives. And we were talking earlier about you know,

896
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: sometimes Rooselt's progressive and sometimes he's a conservative. He was

897
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: earing a conservative on Brian, who he thought was just

898
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of you know, was going to

899
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: make the French Revolution happen in America, was going to

900
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 2: attack the money supply, and and representing a group, you know,

901
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 2: American farmers who Roosevelt respected but did not really take

902
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 2: seriously as as being a part of part of the

903
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: ruling class. They had their place, they should vote, and

904
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 2: they should have like like Roosevelt. I wonder if Roosevelt. Also,

905
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 2: you know, we think of Roosevelt being so young, the

906
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: youngest American president, Brian was actually just a little bit younger.

907
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: He was the boy orator. I always wondering if there

908
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: was a part of Roosevelt it was vaguely jealous that

909
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 2: Roosevelt didn't have a great speaking voice, could get a

910
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 2: good speech, great speaking voice, and here's Brian, just wonderful.

911
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 2: He would have been on radio time or television and

912
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 2: really give a speech. If we know, blind's because this

913
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 2: cross of gold speech you gave. There wasn't a little

914
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: bit of jealousy that here was this younger man who

915
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: had these qualities that he aspired to have himself.

916
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: You know, by the way, I'm really taken with the

917
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: cover of your book because of the it feels like

918
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: an authentic photo. I'm assuming it's not in that it's colorized.

919
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: It is colorist, right, but it has this just wonderful right.

920
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: And you just brought up something that I think is

921
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things I like to say

922
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: is you know about certain people that run for president

923
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: in the modern era, boy, they'd have made a great

924
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: nineteenth century president, meaning when you didn't need this sort

925
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: of public oratory or the public charisma, And here's Teddy

926
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: Roosevelt thought of it as this incredibly charismatic president, larger

927
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: than life figure. Would he have been a nobody in

928
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: the TV? The TV era?

929
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, it's hard to answer because I'm not

930
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: sure how the charisma translates.

931
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

932
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: Again, didn't have a great projecting voice, the pond's neck glasses,

933
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that. Wasn't a particularly tall man.

934
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: And sometimes you kind of look back at those photographs

935
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 2: and you see him as a forty year old officer

936
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 2: in the Spanish American War, and he just doesn't maybe

937
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 2: maybe look like, I don't know, Douglas MacArthur, you know, with.

938
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: No, he doesn't that right, Yeah, the square job.

939
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 2: So so it is. It is a real question.

940
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: Uh.

941
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 2: And I guess to answer your question, I don't know

942
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 2: if that, if all that would have translated particularly well.

943
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: He was very well read, He was a thoughtful man.

944
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: He was an intellectual one. Is America ever been in

945
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 2: love with people who have demonstrated intellectual qualities? Uh, that's

946
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 2: pretty tough to come up with. It's possible though, that

947
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 2: his argumented the skills and debates would have caught people's eye.

948
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: It's also possible that because people who went to see

949
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 2: him live they said, wow, you know, there's.

950
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: Good always really good reactions. Right, Yeah, there were, there

951
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: were good reactions there.

952
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I wouldn't I wouldn't count him out.

953
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: One of the other points you make that I thought, frankly,

954
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: it was one of those I'm my boy, there's a

955
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: whole book in here. Was the how Roosevelt's presidency was

956
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: sort of the first one. You know, Lincoln challenged the

957
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: supremacy of Congress for obvious reasons during the Civil War,

958
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: but the but the sort of the strong presidency versus

959
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: the strong legislative branch. You know, the last time there

960
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: was big fights like that was you had to go

961
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: back to Andrew Jackson, and you were sort of painting

962
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: a picture that Roosevelt in many ways was, you know,

963
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: sort of certainly in the twentieth century, and now in hindsight,

964
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: looks like he laid the groundwork for a strong the

965
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: strong executive that we're now used to today. And in

966
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: many ways he epitomized this.

967
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, it was semi cael an imperial presidency, and.

968
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: It was the big the what realistically really kind of,

969
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: in hindsight, now the first of its kind, right, And.

970
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: I think I think what makes it unique is that

971
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,959
Speaker 2: you mentioned you mentioned Andrew Jackson back in the day,

972
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 2: and even Lincoln a little bit later. Nobody really had

973
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 2: the kind of force and power that Roosevelt had. The

974
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: country had obviously grown great development, including industrial development, and

975
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 2: so Jackson and Lincoln were primarily presidents of groaring republics,

976
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: and Roosevelt was a president of a country that was

977
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: industrializing and that was urbanizing. We just become an overseas

978
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 2: imperial power. And that means that how the presidency is

979
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: also going to increase. There's more resources, there's a bigger military,

980
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 2: there's more money available, and this can give someone who's

981
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 2: interested and not necessarily expand the part of the presidency

982
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: just to do it or to challenge the constitution, but

983
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 2: to project, say his vision about what America should look like,

984
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 2: or the fruition of America. If you don't have a

985
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 2: real strong congress or court system, then with those advantages,

986
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 2: that president can really push things. And it doesn't come

987
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: just with the times. The individual is also important, because

988
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 2: we don't talk about McKinley that way. We don't talk

989
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 2: about William Howard Taff that way, and if talk about

990
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: Wilson that way. Wilson came from a southern state troits tradition.

991
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: What allows Wilson to and somebody's expand the power of

992
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: the presidency. Not unlike Lincoln, he was involved in a

993
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: great war.

994
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: Right. You point out something and I remember this being

995
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: I remember reading something about Bill Clinton feeling this way

996
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: after nine to eleven that he lamented that his presidency

997
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: was too peaceful and too prosperous. Right, Like, he didn't

998
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: he didn't have a moment where he could have made

999
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: history right. You know, there's always the debate, right, do

1000
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: the men make the history or just the history make

1001
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: the men right? Type of thing. And you write something

1002
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: similar about Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt that there was

1003
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 1: a jealousy of sorts that Wilson, you know that he

1004
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to lead. But here's the thing,

1005
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: Like he ran for president in nineteen twelve. You know

1006
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: he could get elected in nineteen twelve and in theory

1007
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: have been president during World War one. Give you know,

1008
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of alternative histories. That's a that's

1009
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: a sliding door. That's not unrealistic. Teddy Roosevelt as president

1010
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: at the start of the Great War, there's a America

1011
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: get in sooner or later? Or is it just different

1012
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: rhetoric but same same basic result.

1013
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 2: I think that he begins to arm the country a

1014
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 2: percadials campaign, I would guess pretty much right away, like

1015
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 2: in late nineteen fourteen, whereas the Wilson administration waited until

1016
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: hunting right and I think unless the Germans had sort

1017
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 2: of pulled back on unrestricted some warfare, I mean they did,

1018
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 2: but then by nineteen seventeen they they put it back

1019
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 2: in play. I think Roosevelt I could see a Roosevelt

1020
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 2: administration going to war in nineteen fifteen unless the German

1021
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 2: government recognized this guy's real serious, this guy will do it,

1022
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: and then completely, you know, leave the Americans alone. And

1023
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 2: then I wonder in that context if Roosevelt would have

1024
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 2: found ways too, For example, aid the Allies even at

1025
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: the United States wasn't part of the Daly cause of

1026
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 2: course you could do so saying we're neutral country and

1027
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 2: we can trade with who we want to. In that sense,

1028
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 2: it would not have been much different than what occurred

1029
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: under Wilson's presidency, which is that billions went to the

1030
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 2: Allies and millions went to the Germans. But I think

1031
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 2: we would have been in the war earlier.

1032
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: That's my initial instinct when even asking you the question,

1033
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: was I assume he gets us in earlier? Is it?

1034
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: You know? Do you know does the groundwork for the

1035
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: United Nations get laid if there's a Roosevelt presidency in

1036
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: the teens rather than a Wilson presidency.

1037
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: You know, it's possible, because Roosevelt really came to loathe Wilson,

1038
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 2: and so anything that Wilson proposed, Roosevelt was going to

1039
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: argue against it.

1040
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: He wasn't alone among conservatives both of that era and

1041
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: of today when it comes to Wilson, I guess.

1042
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 2: And and so when when Wilson proposes the League of Nations,

1043
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: t R really attacks it. Of course, but one can

1044
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: imagine that that Roosevelt would have loved to have had

1045
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 2: the world stage, and if he had been in power,

1046
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 2: one could easily imagine that he would have made some

1047
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 2: proposal for this great, huge crusade which is world peace. Well, actually,

1048
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: you know, that's sort of what Wilson was asking for

1049
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 2: the war to end all wars. One can imagine Roosevelt's

1050
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 2: sort of adopting like rhetoric and the like mission. I

1051
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 2: can't remember who it was, but the research one of

1052
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 2: contemporaries said the other thing that really bothered Roosevelt was

1053
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 2: that Wilson was doing things that that Rooselt would have

1054
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: loved to have done, including including, uh, go to Congress

1055
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 2: and and give the you know, the State the Union Address,

1056
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: which which was just like habitually just sort of like

1057
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 2: delivered this this this big long paper. And now here's

1058
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 2: Wilson going to Congress and delivering it. And of course,

1059
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: you know from now once a year that's what we do.

1060
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,959
Speaker 2: We sit around our TVs and whatnot, and we've watched

1061
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 2: rallies depending on this, and I think, uh not unlike

1062
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: Roosealt's relationship to Brian, there was a little bit of

1063
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 2: jealousy in Roosevelt's reaction, it seems criticism to Wilson.

1064
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 1: Part of the reason I think the presidency had a

1065
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: chance to sort of dominate Congress, as Congress was pretty

1066
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: evenly divided. That was another mark of similarity between the

1067
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: era we live in now in the air then, is

1068
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: that we were in the middle of a political realignment

1069
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: back then. We just didn't fully realize that. You know,

1070
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: that's the beauty of historians like yourself, right, you can oh, well,

1071
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: that was the middle of a political realignment. Well at

1072
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: the moment, people didn't realize it, right. I always say

1073
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: that about the moment we're living in. Like, you know,

1074
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: we think every election is this permanent you know picture

1075
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: of a coalition. I mean I watched these people going

1076
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: the Trump coalition. It's like, Okay, on one day, Trump

1077
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: had these voters and there's a whole bunch of people

1078
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: that literally the next day might not have voted that way.

1079
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: Like a This is a more fluid situation than we

1080
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: give it credit for. But as you went through and

1081
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: writing this book, you know, how much did it echo

1082
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: with the current era? In your mind as you were writing.

1083
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 2: You know, I think back to nineteen hundred nineteen five,

1084
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: anxiety about where the country's moving, anxiety about form policy.

1085
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: We were just entering a phase where we're going to

1086
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 2: become an imperial power, which seems to contradict our history, right.

1087
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 2: I mean, the United States was born in a great

1088
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 2: anti colonial rebellion. We identified ourselves as the world's leader

1089
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 2: against colonization. And now with the war against Spain. You know,

1090
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 2: there's Hawaii, there's the Philippines.

1091
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: There's suddenly acquiring territory. And this was quite a This

1092
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: was a something we hadn't really done since Mexico, I

1093
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: guess exactly.

1094
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 2: And then you know, I'm thinking, you know, we're industrializing,

1095
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 2: there's monopolies, there's a need for reform. This would become

1096
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 2: the progressive era. There's the Populist Party. These farmers in

1097
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 2: the frontier, hitherto the bone and sinew, the backbone of

1098
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 2: the country. The here's the textbooks, the agrarians. If you

1099
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 2: were a president back in their own republic and you

1100
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 2: were listing what you did for a living, you would

1101
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 2: check I was a farmer. Of course, farmers are the

1102
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: best people. So the American identity is undergoing a great change.

1103
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 2: Some people would argue of last twenty five years or

1104
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 2: so from policy AI dot com billionaires, the American identity

1105
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 2: is undergoing a great change, and so in times of uncertainty,

1106
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 2: one might rebel against the existing structure. In nineteen you know,

1107
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 2: term the century. It wasn't that that people dumped the

1108
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 2: Republican Party, but in a sense and latched under Roosevelt.

1109
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 2: They latched onto a maverick within the party who was

1110
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 2: never within the good graces of the party's old guard.

1111
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 2: One could say that Trump is a transactional Republican and

1112
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 2: was quite willing to go his own way. So he

1113
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 2: said that maybe in twenty sixteen and run a third

1114
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 2: party candidcy, which is what Roosevelt did, And so the

1115
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 2: party sort of, you know, went with him whenever he

1116
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 2: was in power. And when Roosevelt was in power, the

1117
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: old guard went with him too. But when Roosevelt left,

1118
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,679
Speaker 2: they quickly moved on to Taft.

1119
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 1: So what's the lesson there, because that's fascinating to me too,

1120
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 1: And I feel like the McKinley wing of the party

1121
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: took back control of the party by nineteen twenty, right

1122
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 1: and Harding and Coolidge, we're really more Republicans in the

1123
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: in the style of your of your McKinley's or or

1124
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: your Tafts less so Roosevelt. Is that is that foreshadowing

1125
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: what we should expect inside this Republican party as they

1126
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: move forward post Rum.

1127
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 2: It's hard to say, because on one hand, there's just

1128
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 2: there's just politics, right sure, and so and so, even

1129
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 2: even if I'm the old guard, you know, and we

1130
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 2: look like we've got control this year, there's there's there's

1131
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 2: elections coming, and if you want to stand power, you

1132
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 2: have to win elections. And so on one hand, it

1133
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 2: would be easy to say, yeah, I can imagine that.

1134
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 2: Uh you know when when when frum scone the cult

1135
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 2: of Chrisma that's there, that the Republican Party is going

1136
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 2: to look quite a bit different. Maybe so perhaps, But

1137
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 2: another hand, you have to win elections, and so what

1138
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 2: are the voters pushing for? What are the voters demanding?

1139
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 2: And in nineteen twenties, you know, even though farmers had

1140
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 2: are difficult, there was a booming stock market, the standard

1141
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 2: living kept increasing, and so they were Republicans who might,

1142
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 2: you know, in their library have a couple of books

1143
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 2: by Roselant, say Roosevelt's Great, Roosevelt's My Hero, and I'm

1144
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 2: supporting the results because I'm voting for Republicans. But really

1145
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 2: they might be supporting a Republican party that was antithetical

1146
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: to Roosevelt. They can't necessarily see the difference because it's

1147
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 2: party labels. They're voting the pocketbook. They feel good.

1148
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:31,679
Speaker 1: About this.

1149
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 2: With us, It's not exactly clear where some of these

1150
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: Republican voters might go after Trump, and that depends upon

1151
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 2: all kinds of things, the future of the economy, the

1152
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 2: future of how the things that been happening the last year.

1153
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: So I'll jacked in play out this year we have

1154
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 2: elections and in you know, three years and moving forward.

1155
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 2: So wow, it's a steal. It's a hard question.

1156
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 1: Man. Well, I'd like to actually spend the next five

1157
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: or so minutes here as we wrap up, talking about

1158
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 1: another book you wrote, which has to do with moderates.

1159
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: It's called The Vital Center of American Politics from the

1160
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: Founding to Today. And I look at these two books, right,

1161
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 1: you wrote about Teddy and you wrote that book, and

1162
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: it tells me you sort of which is why, frankly,

1163
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: I was why I wanted you on, because I sort

1164
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: of I always say I'm not a liberal or conservative.

1165
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm an incrementalist, and that I'm a believer that ultimately,

1166
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: like you know, we have you know, whenever we incrementally move,

1167
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: it's on solid footing. It takes you know, and it's incremental, right.

1168
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: SOID security is the best example of incrementalism that over

1169
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 1: time takes root and then it becomes something something more permanent.

1170
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:58,440
Speaker 1: To many people. When you view the center of American politics,

1171
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: do you view it in terms of the middle ground

1172
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: between left and right or do you view it more

1173
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: in terms of how I describe, which is it's not

1174
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 1: whether I have some views. I'm very progressive, some views

1175
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm very conservative, but ultimately I come down as an incrementalist.

1176
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 1: Some might call that a pragmatist. However you want to

1177
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 1: view it, What do you view as the center of

1178
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: American politics? Is it ideological or is it really more

1179
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: about how you practice politics?

1180
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 2: I do you tell you practice politics? You could be

1181
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, you know, to be a Democrat

1182
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty five, it's much different than to be

1183
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 2: a Democrat in twenty twenty five. And the party's origins

1184
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 2: are actually I think the protection institution, slavery, or these

1185
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 2: forms in the seventeen nineties, principally by the efforts of

1186
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 2: Jefferson and Madison. For parties to be successful, they have

1187
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 2: to attract coalitions and people, and so that's where I

1188
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 2: think of moderate, That's where I think of connecting with voters.

1189
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 2: And if you're too far on the right, I think

1190
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 2: if you're too far on the left, you're not gonna

1191
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 2: be able to do that effectively. You'll have your hardcore,

1192
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 2: you know, enough to lose elections respectively. But that's not

1193
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 2: the name of the game. And so, you know, when

1194
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 2: I think of the two major parties and I look

1195
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 2: at some of the rhetoric, I can usually find some

1196
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 2: appeal at a center, and sometimes it's a big appeal,

1197
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 2: and sometimes maybe not. For example, it's not such a

1198
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,600
Speaker 2: big appeal. And when I don't see the appeal to

1199
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 2: the center, that gives them suggestion that that party may

1200
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 2: not be very successful in the next selection.

1201
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 1: You know, I answer this question people are I had

1202
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: a student in a class I teach currently was asking

1203
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: me why the Democrats come across as lashier than the Republicans,

1204
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 1: And to me, it's a matt I always say, well,

1205
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,680
Speaker 1: there's your answer is a mathic problem, meaning there are

1206
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 1: more base Republicans and based Democrats, and so the path

1207
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: to fifty percent plus one for a Republican allows them

1208
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: to be more conservative than the path to fifty percent

1209
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: plus one. And this is generically you know, in certain

1210
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: places it's blue or and you can you can do this,

1211
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: but the Democrats need more of these moderates to get

1212
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: to fifty percent plus one. By the way, this was

1213
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: reversed right when you and I were growing up in

1214
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: the sixty seventies and eighties. You could argue it the

1215
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: other way. The Republicans right where they considered more of

1216
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 1: the centrist party, well they didn't. They had a smaller base.

1217
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 1: The Democrats had the larger base, so the Democrats didn't

1218
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 1: have to you know, it always I always was trying

1219
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: to tell the student, Look, it's just a numbers game.

1220
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: You know. Parties aren't centrists because they want to be

1221
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,759
Speaker 1: Parties reach out to the center out of necessity, right,

1222
01:15:52,960 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: not out of so in looking at that, there's clearly

1223
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: a vacuum, right, there is a We always say there's

1224
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: this vast middle of America, and some of us want

1225
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: to believe it's between the thirty yard Lindes. Is it

1226
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 1: is that correct? Or how should we describe the vast

1227
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 1: moderate center of the American electorate?

1228
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 2: You know, I think that's one of the great narratives

1229
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 2: that's been out there for at least the last half century.

1230
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 2: I think back, for example, to Richard Nixon, the Forgotten American.

1231
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's it's about recognizing you can't reach

1232
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 2: these people unless you recognize that they're there, that that

1233
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 2: they're not going to automatically vote for you, automatically not

1234
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 2: vote for you. And so I I, you know, I

1235
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 2: look at the hardcore voters on both sides, and what

1236
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 2: always interests me though, is that who's available, who is

1237
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: in play, And it seems to me that that's that's

1238
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 2: who you need to go after. That that, to me,

1239
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 2: that's that's the art of politics, which is which is

1240
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 2: building coalitions, big tents. And you obviously have to do

1241
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 2: this because if you if you're in a country our

1242
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,960
Speaker 2: size and you only have two major parties, well.

1243
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 1: I think that's the flaw in our system right there,

1244
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 1: is that we're trying. Can you imagine going to a

1245
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: clothing store and they're only being small and extra large,

1246
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 1: And that's what we've done to you know. And you know,

1247
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,599
Speaker 1: I think people sit there and say, yeah, I'm registered

1248
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: as a Republican, but the Republicans don't represent everything I believe.

1249
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:34,639
Speaker 1: Or I'm registered as a Democrat, but the Democrats don't

1250
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: represent everything I believe. That if we had, you know,

1251
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: if we had more parties and no majority and no

1252
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 1: party had to get a majority to get power, but

1253
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 1: you had to form a coalition. I mean, in some ways,

1254
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: I always say both parties are coalitions, are not parties,

1255
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 1: They're coalitions of multiple sub parties. Right, there's a there's

1256
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: a Christian Conservative Party, there's a business party, right all

1257
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 1: on the right, there's a progressive you know, you could

1258
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 1: put together your for pieces of each you know, basically

1259
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: multiple political parties within this umbrella group called the left

1260
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: and the right. You know, look, I will I will admit, well,

1261
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,560
Speaker 1: I don't want us to be a parliamentary system. I

1262
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: do wish we had a system that allowed for parties

1263
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,559
Speaker 1: to be more representative of where people wanted to be.

1264
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 1: But you but you had sort of top four, right,

1265
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 1: we had four major were really I think we're really

1266
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 1: four major political parties stuffed into two.

1267
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, well it's it's obviously it's a very diverse country.

1268
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 2: And I think some of the difficulty in going after

1269
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: the center is you don't want to alienate certain coalitions

1270
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 2: within your coach right, and and obviously if you do that,

1271
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 2: there's there's there's the fear of alienation. But you know,

1272
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 2: there's also the question of do you want to government

1273
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 2: from fear? Do you want to do you want to

1274
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 2: try to gain things all the time. So if I

1275
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 2: could do in one more result reference and this guy

1276
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 2: really was a romantic and he wasn't thinking about, you know,

1277
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 2: sort of electoral votes, and he wasn't counting. He was

1278
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,679
Speaker 2: really leading from his heart. And maybe this is romantic

1279
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 2: thing to say, but I think if we had more

1280
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 2: of that, I think voters would really resonate to someone

1281
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 2: who they thought was speaking directly to them, was mostly

1282
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 2: sincere and believed that we all had something in stake together.

1283
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't just reading spreadsheets.

1284
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 1: As a historian, who's a president, we don't have enough

1285
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: scholarship on that. You wish people would spend more time

1286
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: getting to know deserves the better biography treatment. You know,

1287
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,440
Speaker 1: I used to say I felt like Eisenhower was under scholarship.

1288
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: Then that's changed, I would argain in the last twenty years,

1289
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 1: we've gotten the proper what I think is a proper

1290
01:19:56,240 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: amount of historians tackling him in different ways, which feel

1291
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: there's some people that are overwritten about, like Kennedy, and

1292
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: I say this with no disrespect, they just you know,

1293
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: I get, I get why what what does it? Because

1294
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:14,200
Speaker 1: of the circumstances of his death. But I'm curious because

1295
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 1: I still actually think there are more things to learn

1296
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 1: about Teddy. So I'm not saying this to say, hey,

1297
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: we've written. You know, we've had too much on Teddy.

1298
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: I don't agree. I think not enough sometimes still there.

1299
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:27,480
Speaker 1: But who's somebody that he thinks a bit under represented

1300
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 1: in your ranks of the historians? Now you like to

1301
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: see tackled?

1302
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I sure have to see some aspects of James

1303
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 2: Monroe's presidency looked at more carefully. So this is kind

1304
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,600
Speaker 2: of going way back. But you know, he was the

1305
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 2: last president to heurre knee britches, and so we're really

1306
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 2: moving from you.

1307
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 1: Use that phrase, and can I make a confession. When

1308
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 1: you use the phrase the first time, I'm like, what

1309
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,599
Speaker 1: the hell are knee britches? So I literally the old

1310
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't done this in a while. Where I did

1311
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 1: the old? Okay, I gotta I gotta go look up

1312
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: what that is. You know, you know when as a kid,

1313
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 1: you know you're reading books that are a little ahead

1314
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 1: of your time, you're constantly doing that. I had done that.

1315
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: I was like, neighbor, oh, neighbridges, got it? Okay?

1316
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 2: Sorry, so very eighteenth century. Yes, it is Monroe as

1317
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 2: this transitional figure, right, I mean he was a founder,

1318
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 2: was he was neighbors.

1319
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: He was the last founder president, right, I would.

1320
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 2: Say so, yeah, John Quincy Adams follows him. But John

1321
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 2: Quincy Adams was bored in the revolution, right, And we're

1322
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 2: moving into what would be called machine politics, and Monroe

1323
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 2: sort of resisted that. Monroe wanted to push what he

1324
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 2: once called amalgamation politics, which is we need to go

1325
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,839
Speaker 2: back to where there are no parties. There's just essentially,

1326
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 2: you know, Americans in governments and we're not fiderlists and

1327
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 2: we're not we're not republicans. We're just all in this together,

1328
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 2: which which looks so antiquated by that time, it's just

1329
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:57,679
Speaker 2: blown out the waters in eighteen twenties. But I'm interested

1330
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 2: in the intellectual history that's there, his readings of you know,

1331
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 2: I Thinkian democracy and the Roman Republic, and you know,

1332
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 2: he was the last chief executive to essentially run you know,

1333
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 2: all by himself. There was there was no one opposed him.

1334
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:15,280
Speaker 2: So there really was that moment of what do you

1335
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 2: call it moderation or the center or consensus that we

1336
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 2: could we could, we could as a country say, yeah,

1337
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:24,759
Speaker 2: you know, we're essentially behind this person. It doesn't last.

1338
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know Lincoln has that now, but he

1339
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 1: never had it in practice. Right, what's that meaning that

1340
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: what you just described that Monroe had this sort of Hey,

1341
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 1: he's representative of all of us. Well, that's right. In hindsight,

1342
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: we've decided Lincoln is is an avatar for the for

1343
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 1: who we want America to have been in the nineteenth century,

1344
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: and it wasn't what America was, but he's the avatar

1345
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 1: of what we could be. Right, he's America. I think

1346
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,640
Speaker 1: FDR is pretty close to achieving that status. Eisenhower, I

1347
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: think has that status. But there's not many presidents that

1348
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: have that status.

1349
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 2: No, there isn't. Oftentimes it's it's chief executives who are

1350
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 2: associated in some way, shape or form with wars, with

1351
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 2: America's more popular wars, more necessary wars, and and so

1352
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:13,080
Speaker 2: that blups off.

1353
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 1: You made a great case for James Monroe America at

1354
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:20,480
Speaker 1: two fifty. How should the average citizens celebrate.

1355
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 2: I'm part of their country, cognizance of are our successes,

1356
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 2: cognizance of our failures, and to love and respect our

1357
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 2: country enough to look at it wholly and clearly as

1358
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 2: as best we can and to do what we can

1359
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:51,600
Speaker 2: to be good, productive, honest, deliberate, considerate citizens.

1360
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: Well, David, I enjoyed it. Uh, you know, look, I'm

1361
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: an easy mark. I enjoyed Teddy Roosevelt books. But look,

1362
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 1: you the best history books to read are the ones

1363
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 1: that make you feel like they echo in the moment

1364
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: we're currently living in. And I would say that you've

1365
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:13,479
Speaker 1: you've you've done a good job of trying to capture

1366
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:15,640
Speaker 1: you know. I think that's a plus side of a

1367
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: history book, right is when it can also it's writing

1368
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 1: about the past, but it's writing about the present. Well.

1369
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 2: Thanks, You know, the historian is objective as objective can be. Us.

1370
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: This sources you're you're going to get, You're going to

1371
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 1: get influenced by the times you're living in. It's just inevitable,

1372
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 1: right exactly.

1373
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 2: The history is living is living through the times.

1374
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,759
Speaker 1: Well, we need a lot more historians as journalists these days.

1375
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 1: I feel like context and nuances uh falls off too much.

1376
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: So I'm glad to surface this and uh, well done.

1377
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 1: It's great to get to know you, David.

1378
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 2: Thanks check.

1379
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: One of my favorite historical debates over the next few

1380
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: decades is going to be tr and Donald Trump. It

1381
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: is sort of where there are similarities and where there

1382
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 1: are differences. And I know my tr lovers are horrified

1383
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 1: that the comparisons get made, but on some of these

1384
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 1: character issues and some of these narcissistic issues, it's hard

1385
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: not to see to see some comparisons there. So for

1386
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 1: my top five lists this week, I'm going to the

1387
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: Census and a little bit of a riff as there's

1388
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,200
Speaker 1: some new census updates went around and there there was

1389
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: a new round of panic among Democrats and liberals about

1390
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:56,719
Speaker 1: how the electoral college map in twenty thirty two after

1391
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 1: the twenty thirty census is going to become a disaster

1392
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 1: for the Democrats because the power shift essentially, you know,

1393
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: the Democrats. You know, had Kamala Harris simply carried Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,

1394
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: and Michigan in addition all the other states she carried,

1395
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: she'd have been right at two hundred and seventy By

1396
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 1: twenty thirty two, the same configuration of states would have

1397
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 1: only gotten heard to two hundred and fifty nine electoral votes.

1398
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:27,560
Speaker 1: So basically Democrats in the next census are going to

1399
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 1: lose a dozen base electoral votes, which means the Republican

1400
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: floor is going to go up about a dozen votes.

1401
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: Just to give you some technical numbers, Essentially, you've got

1402
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: Republican states Florida, Texas, Idaho, Utah that collectively are going

1403
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 1: to net anywhere from say ten to twelve congressional districts,

1404
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: which means electoral votes. And then you will have a

1405
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,440
Speaker 1: bunch of losses in the blue based states. Right, California

1406
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:02,400
Speaker 1: in your collectively are going to lose eight to nine.

1407
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 1: Throw in Illinois's going to lose another two, and then

1408
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,600
Speaker 1: you're going to lose one each from Oregon and Minnesota.

1409
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 1: Never mind some of the swing states that you're going

1410
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 1: to see someromp shifts in right, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin each

1411
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 1: lose one, but North Carolina, Arizona, and Georgia will each

1412
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 1: gain one. So in that sense, the swing states, the

1413
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 1: numbers are going to be the same, but it is

1414
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 1: going to mean that the Blue wall is not going

1415
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: to be the important thing. It's the Sunbelt purple wall

1416
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 1: that's going to matter more. Of Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona

1417
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 1: are going to be at least as important, if not

1418
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:39,760
Speaker 1: more important than the trio of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin in Michigan.

1419
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 1: But that's just if you're sitting there, assuming the map

1420
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:49,600
Speaker 1: is what it is. Right, Political parties are supposed to

1421
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 1: be dynamic organizations, and they, based on investments, can can

1422
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: try to take a base state from the other party

1423
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:00,759
Speaker 1: and turn it into a swing state. Take a swing

1424
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:02,880
Speaker 1: state and try to turn it into a base state. Right.

1425
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:06,719
Speaker 1: Virginia and Colorado Democrats successfully took what were swing states

1426
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: and turn them into base states. Arguably, Republicans Florida and

1427
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 1: Ohio took what was swing states and turned them into

1428
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 1: base states. Right, So political parties, right, you've got right. Now,

1429
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: Republicans would love to take a swing state like Minnesota

1430
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 1: and see or a lean blue state like Minnesota and

1431
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 1: see if they can turn it into a swing state.

1432
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,840
Speaker 1: Democrats have been amusing about the idea of taking Texas

1433
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 1: and making it a swing state. But now the project

1434
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,719
Speaker 1: is more acute than ever for the Democrats. Now, look,

1435
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 1: I'm going to make one tangent real quick because those

1436
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:46,680
Speaker 1: of you that read me closely and listen to me closely, No,

1437
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed that the easiest way to fix this electoral

1438
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:51,439
Speaker 1: You know that one of the ways we need to

1439
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 1: fix the electoral college unfairness is to not have a

1440
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 1: constitutional amendment but simply expand the House to the size

1441
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 1: that the founders and tended it to be. Right, it

1442
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: is no longer a representative democracy we have now. We

1443
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 1: now have every congressional districts the size of a major

1444
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 1: city with about eight hundred thousand. They're too big. They

1445
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 1: don't they are not representative of communities of interest anymore.

1446
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 1: They're simply dominated by the most powerful faction within each

1447
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 1: of these congressional districts, and so they're not doing what

1448
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:27,680
Speaker 1: the founders intended. The House of Representatives was supposed to

1449
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: expand with the population of the country, and they did

1450
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 1: this every decade until nineteen twenty when there was a

1451
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 1: dispute between the two parties, and then they locked it

1452
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 1: in at four hundred and thirty five. That is now

1453
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 1: why you feel like you live in a congressional district

1454
01:29:43,240 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 1: likely where you feel like your a member of Congress

1455
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 1: doesn't really represent the district. They either represent to liberal

1456
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: part of the district over they sort of overrepresent the

1457
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 1: liberal part or overrepresent the conservative part. But it doesn't

1458
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 1: feel like anybody represents right the district as a whole.

1459
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: So I want to set that tangent aside. So if

1460
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:09,839
Speaker 1: you're the DNC and you have leadership that is thinking

1461
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,759
Speaker 1: beyond tomorrow, and I don't know if that's the case,

1462
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 1: I say it. I'm not trying to be snarky, but

1463
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, leaders of political parties are like general managers

1464
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:25,639
Speaker 1: for sports teams. The fan base expects immediate results. They

1465
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 1: are not interested in you building a foundation that pays

1466
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:31,880
Speaker 1: dividends in eight years, because that general manager won't even

1467
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 1: be there in eight years, just like that political party

1468
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 1: leader won't be there in eight years. So it is

1469
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: the incentive structures are messed up. But that doesn't mean

1470
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 1: there aren't other outside entities that should be thinking about

1471
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 1: the following, which is, if the Democrats are suddenly have

1472
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: an electoral college majority problem, then they need to design

1473
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 1: what I call a Project twenty to thirty two and

1474
01:30:56,479 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: decide they've got to put eight to ten They've got

1475
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: to invest in eight to ten states, and about half

1476
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:06,679
Speaker 1: of them are swing states that they've got to attempt

1477
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: to make more reliably blue and or red states that

1478
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 1: they can put into the competitive category. They have got

1479
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,879
Speaker 1: to expand the map even though it doesn't look obvious

1480
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 1: that they can expand the map, so that long wind

1481
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:27,000
Speaker 1: up is designed. So if project with twenty thirty two's

1482
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: presidential election in mind, with the new map that we'll have,

1483
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:34,919
Speaker 1: then I give you the top five list of states

1484
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:38,839
Speaker 1: that the Democrats should be targeting now in an effort

1485
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 1: to keep them competitive on in the electoral college going forward,

1486
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:56,880
Speaker 1: top top top, because the political power that California and

1487
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: New York, that sort of floor of support at times

1488
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 1: made it seem like the electoral college, and this is

1489
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:05,080
Speaker 1: something that always is cyclical. At times it looks like

1490
01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:07,560
Speaker 1: there's an advantage to the Democrats, at times looks like

1491
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 1: there's advantage to Republicans. Really it usually is who's winning

1492
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 1: the middle more often, right is and who's got the

1493
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 1: larger base, And right now Republicans have a slightly larger

1494
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: base than the Democrats. So with that in mind, I'm

1495
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:26,560
Speaker 1: going to give you my top five lists of states

1496
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:31,599
Speaker 1: that the Democrats have to invest in, either because they

1497
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,600
Speaker 1: need to try to make that state more reliably competitive,

1498
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,599
Speaker 1: or they need to try to take a state and

1499
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 1: make it competitive in the first place. So number one

1500
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 1: on the list is North Carolina. North Carolina by twenty

1501
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 1: thirty two is likely to be up to seventeen electoral votes.

1502
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 1: It's arguably should you know, it is trending the way

1503
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 1: we've seen with Georgia trending. It is younger, it's a

1504
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 1: bit more diverse, but it hadn't quite tipped yet. Right,

1505
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 1: But it is one of the highest education to growth

1506
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 1: ratios in the state. Right, it's seven percent higher education

1507
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: than some of its neighbors. So you know, here they've

1508
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: they've got Virginia as a light blue state. Georgia is

1509
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 1: a model here. But North Carolina they have multiple markets. Charlotte, Raleigh,

1510
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:23,160
Speaker 1: Ashville can serve as anchors there. But the bottom line

1511
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:26,320
Speaker 1: is they've they've acted while they are while they're competitive

1512
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:29,400
Speaker 1: in North Carolina, they usually come up short. Right, It's

1513
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:33,720
Speaker 1: sort of what Minnesota has been to the Republicans. And yes,

1514
01:33:33,800 --> 01:33:37,280
Speaker 1: Barack Obama carried North Carolina once and in that one

1515
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 1: year they won a Senate seat, and occasionally they win

1516
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 1: Senate seats just like Republicans occasionally win statewide. In Minnesota,

1517
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: there seems to be a hard cap of about forty

1518
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 1: eight percent in most federal elections. DIDO in Minnesota for

1519
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 1: the Republicans did oh for that in North Carolina. They've

1520
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:54,600
Speaker 1: got to change that. And North Carolina has been a

1521
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:57,080
Speaker 1: state that they you know, it's always like, was on

1522
01:33:57,160 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 1: the periphery of targeting in the swing states. Yeah, we're

1523
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 1: gonna to target North Carolina the same way they would say, yeah,

1524
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 1: we might target Florida back in twenty twelve and twenty sixteen,

1525
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 1: and sometimes they didn't. Sometimes they didn't. Now they've got

1526
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 1: to treat North Carolina the same way they treat Wisconsin

1527
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 1: and Michigan. It's got to be that that sort of

1528
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:17,439
Speaker 1: you know, it's got to be treated on another level.

1529
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:20,439
Speaker 1: So that's number one North Carolina. In some ways, I

1530
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 1: don't know if a Democrat's going to get elected president

1531
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 1: without carrying North Carolina and Georgia. At the end of

1532
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 1: the day, you know, when you start to look at

1533
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 1: this in the way trend's going in the demographic makeup

1534
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party versus what we're seeing in the

1535
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:40,200
Speaker 1: Republican Party aging in smaller populations, I suspect over time, Pennsylvania,

1536
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 1: Wisconsin's going to start drifting right, which means Democrats have

1537
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 1: to figure out how to turn Georgia, Arizona and North

1538
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:53,600
Speaker 1: Carolina collectively into the new Trio into their You know

1539
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:55,760
Speaker 1: that's going to be the new wall, right, It's either

1540
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 1: a red wall for the Republicans that Democrats can't penetrate,

1541
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:04,000
Speaker 1: or becomes the building blocks of a Sunbelt blue wall.

1542
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 1: But either way, the anchor of it is likely North

1543
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 1: Carolina number two on that list, I think of targeting

1544
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:14,280
Speaker 1: is a bit of a reach state, but it's Texas

1545
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 1: Texas more than Florida right now. It's I think the

1546
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:23,000
Speaker 1: trend lines in Florida for some demographic reasons with the

1547
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 1: Latino population. In some ways, I think Hispanics are more

1548
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 1: gettable for Democrats in Texas than Hispanics are in Florida.

1549
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:36,960
Speaker 1: They're more swing voter, swingy swing votery in Texas than

1550
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 1: they are in South Florida. So I think that when

1551
01:35:39,320 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 1: you start to just look at the numbers, they're there.

1552
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 1: Texas is just getting a lot of new residents and

1553
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:48,599
Speaker 1: any just like how Florida transitioned in the nineties from

1554
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 1: being a fairly reliable Republican state to becoming a swing state.

1555
01:35:53,200 --> 01:35:55,760
Speaker 1: First Clinton carried it in ninety six, and then of

1556
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 1: course it became the single most important state in two

1557
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:03,680
Speaker 1: thousand thousand and four. That's the sort of reasoning and

1558
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 1: rationale why Texas has to be a focal point. And

1559
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 1: the fact is, rhetorically, the Democrats have talked about Texas

1560
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,320
Speaker 1: for a long time. They've never actually put their money

1561
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:14,760
Speaker 1: where their mouth is. Maybe this year's Senate race, if

1562
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:17,839
Speaker 1: it's indeed competitive, if Ken Paxton is the Republican nominee,

1563
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:22,200
Speaker 1: that jump starts interest in it. But I would argue regardless,

1564
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:26,200
Speaker 1: they have to treat Texas like a swing state even

1565
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:30,760
Speaker 1: when it's not, in order to get that state comfortable

1566
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,680
Speaker 1: supporting a Democrat by twenty thirty two. It's not going

1567
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:35,920
Speaker 1: to happen overnight. And that's why it's sort of like

1568
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 1: again I go back, I have. You know, it is

1569
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: hard to get political parties to think more than a

1570
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 1: luncheon cycle ahead. That's not how the incentives work. But

1571
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:50,880
Speaker 1: when thinking this far in advance, that's why Texas arguably

1572
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:52,759
Speaker 1: is number two, because it's going to be very expensive,

1573
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:54,680
Speaker 1: and it's going to be and you just got to

1574
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:57,200
Speaker 1: plot along. Number three on my list is the state

1575
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:00,640
Speaker 1: that I talk about all the time that it's a

1576
01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:04,680
Speaker 1: head scratcher to me that Democrats really don't focus on it,

1577
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 1: and it's Kansas. It is. We've seen this now two

1578
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:15,720
Speaker 1: different Democrat, two term Democratic governors over the last you know,

1579
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:18,799
Speaker 1: sixteen of the last twenty four years have had Democratic governors,

1580
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 1: and they've won due to Republican overreach, but they've also

1581
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:25,839
Speaker 1: won because you've seen you know, you have a growing

1582
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: you know. Look, the biggest sort of deno way to

1583
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:33,960
Speaker 1: find out if a state leans will inherently lean red

1584
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 1: or blue is you know the number of college grads. Well,

1585
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:40,519
Speaker 1: Kansas is one that in Kansas and Missouri are kind

1586
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:44,120
Speaker 1: of going in the opposite directions. You've got the growing

1587
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:48,519
Speaker 1: suburbs of Kansas City in Kansas that have taken have

1588
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:51,559
Speaker 1: basically taken what used to be a lean red district

1589
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 1: and turned it into a lean blue district. Both with

1590
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:58,439
Speaker 1: Chaitan Tipeaka are growing. You've got two big state schools

1591
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:03,840
Speaker 1: in Lauren and in Manhattan, Kansas and Kansas State. And

1592
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:06,160
Speaker 1: so when you look at the sort of formula that

1593
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 1: Democrats have used to succeed in places like Wisconsin or Michigan,

1594
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:14,720
Speaker 1: or let's see smaller states or like Nevada, I could

1595
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:23,040
Speaker 1: I could argue that Kansas looks more like that. Look

1596
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:27,599
Speaker 1: there I get the sort of the historical trends of Kansas,

1597
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:32,759
Speaker 1: but Kansas is not as you know, Yes, there's MAGA

1598
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:37,640
Speaker 1: in Kansas, but there's sort of this Kansas Republican that

1599
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:42,839
Speaker 1: is different than the MAGA makeup as well. Where Missouri.

1600
01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:46,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, Missouri feels more like a southern

1601
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:50,520
Speaker 1: state and Kansas feels more like a Midwestern state. And Democrats,

1602
01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 1: I think right now have a better shot, particularly among

1603
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:57,000
Speaker 1: white voters in the Kansas winning those folks over than

1604
01:38:57,040 --> 01:39:01,680
Speaker 1: they do winning the white voters of number four on

1605
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:04,240
Speaker 1: the list. Very similar argument to North Carolina. It's Georgia.

1606
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Georgia is a state that you know, we're going to

1607
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 1: find out in twenty twenty six just how strong the

1608
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:14,720
Speaker 1: Democratic Party is. Is this a state that just is

1609
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:17,599
Speaker 1: competitive only when they have Rafael Warnock on the ballot,

1610
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 1: or is this a state that is going to be

1611
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 1: competitive now no matter what. And asof winning reelection would

1612
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 1: send one signal, Democrats winning the governor's mansion would send

1613
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 1: another signal. So I think we're going to learn a

1614
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:32,759
Speaker 1: lot about just sort of the health of the Democratic brand.

1615
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 1: How much is this the marginal success Democrats have had

1616
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:41,439
Speaker 1: in Georgia been just because of backlaster Trump or is

1617
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:44,160
Speaker 1: there is this starting to become durable. I think we're

1618
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:46,280
Speaker 1: going to learn, but no matter what, again, because of

1619
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:51,040
Speaker 1: the math issue, right Georgia. When you think about how

1620
01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:55,360
Speaker 1: much money and resources over the decades have gone into Michigan, Wisconsin,

1621
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:58,560
Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina and number five of my

1622
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:04,080
Speaker 1: list Arizona, three the they have to become just core states.

1623
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 1: Arguably now they're as important, if not more important, than

1624
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:12,240
Speaker 1: the blue Wall of the Midwest. It's going to be

1625
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 1: a red wall, a purple wall, or a blue sun

1626
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:19,000
Speaker 1: butt wall either way. So there's that. So three states

1627
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 1: that didn't make my list that I think deserve some

1628
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:27,200
Speaker 1: investment in when you're looking at Project thirty two, Iowa, Indiana,

1629
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:31,000
Speaker 1: in Florida, I think all of them. It's one of

1630
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:35,720
Speaker 1: those where you want to get into a position where

1631
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:40,759
Speaker 1: you're competitive in those states where you have enough because

1632
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 1: you need some buffers. You can't always have to draw this.

1633
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:47,120
Speaker 1: You know the perfect inside straight and you know if

1634
01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 1: you want to expand the map for Senate seats, and

1635
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:51,360
Speaker 1: you want to expand the map for more governor's mansions,

1636
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 1: you've got to give yourself buffers and Indiana, Iowa, and Florida,

1637
01:40:57,000 --> 01:41:01,320
Speaker 1: in theory, all have enough combiny of metro areas and

1638
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: suburban populations in some allergies to MAGA policies that collectively,

1639
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:13,360
Speaker 1: in theory, should give the Democrats opportunity. Now, you know,

1640
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 1: it's interesting the Democrats in this in what should be

1641
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 1: a focal point here Project twenty thirty two. And I'm

1642
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: at some point waiting for there to be an organization

1643
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:25,720
Speaker 1: that's spun off just called this, right, you know that

1644
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:29,920
Speaker 1: some big donor decides to fund and just focused on

1645
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 1: voter registration programs things like that is when the Democrats

1646
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 1: decide what the early calendar looks like. And they just

1647
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:43,200
Speaker 1: over the last week greenlit twelve states that plan to

1648
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:46,879
Speaker 1: petition to be in the early primary window for presidential politics.

1649
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:51,960
Speaker 1: If the Democrats are thinking long term, they should be

1650
01:41:52,200 --> 01:41:57,240
Speaker 1: thinking about these four states as this decision as an

1651
01:41:57,280 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: opportunity to invest in Project twenty thirty two for them

1652
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:06,240
Speaker 1: how to strengthen their ability to get more a few

1653
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:10,120
Speaker 1: more states in play, expand the map. Right, So I

1654
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:12,240
Speaker 1: wanted to look at their twelve states and see where

1655
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:17,760
Speaker 1: they overlapped with states that perhaps they need to strengthen

1656
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: in in order to give keep themselves competitive and a

1657
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:23,240
Speaker 1: presidential by twenty thirty two. So the twelve states they

1658
01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:25,280
Speaker 1: put in out of the east, it was Delaware, New Hampshire.

1659
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 1: Out of the midwest, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan. Out of the south, Georgia,

1660
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 1: North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and out of the

1661
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:37,160
Speaker 1: west Nevada and New Mexico. So North Caro and the

1662
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:41,680
Speaker 1: top five lists Georgia and North Carolina overlaps. You know,

1663
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:44,479
Speaker 1: I think on the you know, I've said this before

1664
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,519
Speaker 1: in the early state stuff, the bigger the state, the

1665
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 1: more ineffective that state can be at being sort of

1666
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:54,639
Speaker 1: a fair fairness because with the bigger states then rewards

1667
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:57,400
Speaker 1: those with big money. And both Georgia and North Carolina

1668
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:00,000
Speaker 1: are expensive states. So while I think you could argue

1669
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:04,280
Speaker 1: this would this in theory them as early states, having

1670
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:06,960
Speaker 1: more Democrats campaign in them all the time could serve

1671
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:09,600
Speaker 1: to overtime invest them, I don't know if they're the

1672
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:13,519
Speaker 1: best states to create a level playing field for those

1673
01:43:13,640 --> 01:43:15,880
Speaker 1: candidates with big money and those candidates that don't have

1674
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 1: big money at the beginning. That would be the two

1675
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:22,200
Speaker 1: negatives right, just very expensive states to advertise in, but

1676
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 1: having them as early states where Democrats are just always

1677
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 1: traveling to those to Georgia or North Carolina. Certainly, I

1678
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:33,080
Speaker 1: think that is why Iowa state in the battle round,

1679
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 1: even though demographically Iowa looks like a state that should

1680
01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:42,080
Speaker 1: be darker red than it is. Iowa. Obviously, I think

1681
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 1: this is a way on the smaller state scale. I

1682
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:47,760
Speaker 1: was disappointed to see that either Kansas didn't apply or

1683
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 1: there was no interest. I saw that Nebraska didn't do

1684
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:52,519
Speaker 1: this either. So when you look at it, the only

1685
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:58,759
Speaker 1: viable small states that applied for the early state window

1686
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:02,000
Speaker 1: for the Democratic president primaries with Iowa right. The other

1687
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:04,880
Speaker 1: two in the Midwest or Illinois Michigan again too big,

1688
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: too expensive, will only be there to help the big

1689
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:12,479
Speaker 1: name candidates. It doesn't really doesn't really work as a

1690
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:16,760
Speaker 1: good early test where Iowa you have to campaign in

1691
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:19,320
Speaker 1: rural parts of the state in order to win. Versus

1692
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 1: Ellinois Michigan, you don't have to campaign in the rural

1693
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 1: parts of the state in order to win. The most

1694
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:28,480
Speaker 1: interesting state that's on there that's got advanced for consideration

1695
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:32,160
Speaker 1: to be in the early state window is Tennessee and

1696
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:34,240
Speaker 1: I want to close with Tennessee because Tennessee is a

1697
01:44:34,280 --> 01:44:38,120
Speaker 1: state that has been a head scratcher to me. Twenty

1698
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:41,640
Speaker 1: years ago, I thought Tennessee was going to go was

1699
01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:45,160
Speaker 1: going to be a part of Georgia North Carolina. Right.

1700
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 1: You always said Florida was the first state in the

1701
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:49,920
Speaker 1: sun Belt that became competitive, and then the question was, okay,

1702
01:44:50,600 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 1: which ones are going to go next? And if you

1703
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:58,360
Speaker 1: went by sort of socioeconomics, where we were seeing more

1704
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,880
Speaker 1: people move to write Georgia North Carolina on the list,

1705
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:06,519
Speaker 1: but so is Tennessee and Tennessee is is actually moved

1706
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,599
Speaker 1: become more Republican, not less Republican over the last twenty years.

1707
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 1: Is that going to continue? Does the growth of Nashville

1708
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:23,040
Speaker 1: does that sort of the bigger it grows, the more

1709
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:26,760
Speaker 1: it becomes sort of Austin meets Las Vegas, which then

1710
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:30,519
Speaker 1: creates your sort of suburban and you just get more

1711
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:35,120
Speaker 1: non sort of cultural Southerners in your in your electorate.

1712
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 1: It's certainly something that I think a lot a lot

1713
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:41,519
Speaker 1: of US election observers have been waiting to see, and

1714
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:44,080
Speaker 1: there's been very little evidence of it. I mean, you know,

1715
01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:47,920
Speaker 1: if this were happening, that Tennessee special in December would

1716
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:49,880
Speaker 1: have would have seen a flip, while we didn't see

1717
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:51,880
Speaker 1: a flip. Right, it was a little bit more competitive,

1718
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:54,960
Speaker 1: but it wasn't necessarily a flip. So, you know, part

1719
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:56,600
Speaker 1: of it is, you could say the election lines. I

1720
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:59,760
Speaker 1: do think Democrats have a Memphis problem in the state.

1721
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:03,880
Speaker 1: Memphis is just it's just it's a city that is

1722
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:06,360
Speaker 1: not as it's not what it was thirty years ago.

1723
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:12,040
Speaker 1: It feels as if and there's this whether it's fair

1724
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:14,599
Speaker 1: or not, this perception, well, it's a Democrat run city

1725
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:18,320
Speaker 1: and it's poorly run and et cetera, et cetera. And

1726
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:21,800
Speaker 1: Republicans have weaponized sort of Memphis a long time to

1727
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 1: win elections. It's been sort of something they've done, been

1728
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 1: sort of a you know, Memphis has been used as

1729
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:32,960
Speaker 1: sort of a code word for race. But when you

1730
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:37,800
Speaker 1: look at the elector in Tennessee, you know the I

1731
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,680
Speaker 1: know that if I if I were a strategist over

1732
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 1: at the DNC, I'd be thinking, you know, yeah, Tennessee's

1733
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:47,080
Speaker 1: a reach state, but here's the state that that is

1734
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:50,280
Speaker 1: that's got something in common with Virginia, something in common

1735
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:55,080
Speaker 1: with North Carolina. You know, maybe more resources into the

1736
01:46:55,160 --> 01:47:01,760
Speaker 1: state opened some doors here. I found of all the

1737
01:47:02,120 --> 01:47:03,640
Speaker 1: of all the states that made it through in the

1738
01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:06,280
Speaker 1: top twelve, the one that you know, which one of

1739
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:09,720
Speaker 1: these is not like the other, It was Tennessee. But

1740
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:12,200
Speaker 1: I'll tell you if you if you went back thirty years,

1741
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:15,679
Speaker 1: a lot of US election forecasters would have said Tennessee

1742
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:17,639
Speaker 1: was one of the states that we expected to start

1743
01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:20,479
Speaker 1: to sort of I think a lot of people saw

1744
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:22,479
Speaker 1: the South sort of splitting into sort of you know,

1745
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 1: the South more Cosmopolitans south of quote New South, right,

1746
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:28,760
Speaker 1: and the sort of old South, deep South, however you

1747
01:47:28,800 --> 01:47:31,000
Speaker 1: want to describe it. And there was a you know,

1748
01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:33,879
Speaker 1: you had sort of your your Tennessee, your North Carolina,

1749
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 1: your Georgia, You're Virginia in one area, Florida in one area,

1750
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 1: and then you're Alabama, your Mississippi, You're Louisiana, South Carolina

1751
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:49,439
Speaker 1: in another area. So it is mostly broken along those lines,

1752
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:53,760
Speaker 1: but not totally. In Tennessee has been interesting. I know,

1753
01:47:53,880 --> 01:47:55,599
Speaker 1: my friend Brad Todd has a lot of theories there.

1754
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:59,920
Speaker 1: He thinks that that Tennessee Republicans have benefited from a

1755
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:04,160
Speaker 1: lot of Midwestern refugees, if you will, sort of Midwestern

1756
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:10,200
Speaker 1: conservatives who have left the higher tax states of Ohio, Illinois,

1757
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:13,200
Speaker 1: Michigan and have not moved all the way south, but

1758
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:17,599
Speaker 1: moved to Tennessee, a low income tax state. So he says,

1759
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:18,880
Speaker 1: one of the ways you notice it is if you

1760
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:20,920
Speaker 1: go in the suburbs some of these suburban communities in

1761
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:24,880
Speaker 1: Nashville on a fall Saturday, you don't see Tennessee flex.

1762
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:29,280
Speaker 1: He goes, you see a lot of Ohio, State, Michigan, Purdue,

1763
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:36,400
Speaker 1: Indiana flex. So that's been It's an interesting anecdote. I

1764
01:48:36,439 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 1: think it's one worth processing. But the reality is this

1765
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:44,400
Speaker 1: Democrats have a major problem on their hands come twenty

1766
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:47,040
Speaker 1: thirty two, and if they start worrying about it in

1767
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:49,120
Speaker 1: twenty thirty one, it's going to be too late. So

1768
01:48:49,160 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 1: if they're going to launch Project twenty thirty two, now,

1769
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:54,120
Speaker 1: let me go through it again. The five states. They

1770
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:58,639
Speaker 1: should be focusing on North Carolina, basically the sun Belt,

1771
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:03,360
Speaker 1: Purple Wall of North Carolina, Arizona, and Georgia, and then

1772
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:05,759
Speaker 1: i'd throw in Texas and Kansas. They've got to expand

1773
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:10,400
Speaker 1: their map, and then maybe you dabble in Indiana, Iowa,

1774
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:13,760
Speaker 1: and Florida. And then of course we'll see what they

1775
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:18,519
Speaker 1: do about Tennessee. But if the party doesn't start thinking

1776
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 1: that way, they could get locked out of the presidency

1777
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:26,280
Speaker 1: for a generation. That's how dire this population shift is

1778
01:49:27,160 --> 01:49:38,599
Speaker 1: from California, New York to Florida and Texas. Ask Chuck,

1779
01:49:41,400 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 1: all right, let's do a little last chuck before we

1780
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:44,720
Speaker 1: get out of here. I think I'm going to try

1781
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:48,880
Speaker 1: to do six of them today, so let's keep me honest.

1782
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 1: Number one. This came from Brian from New England. He says, Hey,

1783
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:54,240
Speaker 1: it's been about a year since you announced your departure

1784
01:49:54,280 --> 01:49:59,640
Speaker 1: from NBC. Yes, it is feels like it feels like

1785
01:49:59,680 --> 01:50:02,680
Speaker 1: a de but anyway, I imagine you're happy with the move.

1786
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:04,759
Speaker 1: Was there a moment that made you realize going independent

1787
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:06,599
Speaker 1: was the right call? Or had you just done everything

1788
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:08,719
Speaker 1: you set up to? Two in a broadcast? Any regrets

1789
01:50:08,800 --> 01:50:10,840
Speaker 1: or roles you wish you'd tried, like foreign correspondent or

1790
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:13,559
Speaker 1: local politics, and any future plans you can tease, maybe

1791
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 1: a check sports cast. Thanks Brian from New England. Well,

1792
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:19,280
Speaker 1: there is a fun little sports project I'm working on.

1793
01:50:19,400 --> 01:50:23,200
Speaker 1: I'll have more details soon ish. Partnering with somebody that

1794
01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:26,400
Speaker 1: is probably very familiar to many of you in the

1795
01:50:26,439 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 1: sports space. I'm looking forward to it, but it sort

1796
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:32,320
Speaker 1: of combines my love for sports in history. So I

1797
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:34,559
Speaker 1: will throw that out there and leave that out there

1798
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:37,040
Speaker 1: as a tease for you, but it's something that should

1799
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:39,200
Speaker 1: be come into fruition in the next four to six weeks.

1800
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:47,040
Speaker 1: On that front, Look, I have, I have no regrets.

1801
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,840
Speaker 1: Miss I missed the collaboration. I miss some of my

1802
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 1: friends in colleagues. I ache currently for my longtime friend

1803
01:50:55,360 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 1: Savannah got three, who's going through just the worst, the

1804
01:51:01,080 --> 01:51:02,280
Speaker 1: worst experience imaginable.

1805
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:03,720
Speaker 2: Right.

1806
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 1: You know, something happens to your parents and your kids

1807
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:12,320
Speaker 1: and they're just there's there's no there's no consoling that,

1808
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:18,479
Speaker 1: and it's just heartbreaking. I know Savannah's mother a little bit.

1809
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 1: I love Nancy. She's just terrific. I hope by the

1810
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:28,720
Speaker 1: time you hear this, she's home safe. So moments like this,

1811
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:34,360
Speaker 1: you know, I miss, I miss just miss being able

1812
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:36,600
Speaker 1: to be a be a friend on that. But I

1813
01:51:36,640 --> 01:51:37,800
Speaker 1: can always be a friend. I don't have to be

1814
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:40,639
Speaker 1: an NBC to do that. But I'm just in pain

1815
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:45,600
Speaker 1: for that, you know I have. When you go on

1816
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:49,880
Speaker 1: the regret front, you know, some of my regrets. I

1817
01:51:50,000 --> 01:52:00,160
Speaker 1: I it's not really regrets. It's sort of like, I, uh,

1818
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:04,040
Speaker 1: I leaned in, I should have jumped into certain to

1819
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:08,800
Speaker 1: certain things, right. But I honestly, I'm pretty proud of

1820
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:11,000
Speaker 1: my work. I think it's aging. I think it's aging

1821
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:14,760
Speaker 1: very well, so in that sense, And frankly, I feel

1822
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:17,400
Speaker 1: like I got out at the time, just before everybody

1823
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:20,760
Speaker 1: else was being shoved out because of what's happening with

1824
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:24,920
Speaker 1: corporate ownership of media. So in some ways I feel

1825
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:28,040
Speaker 1: lucky to be in the independent space before it was cool.

1826
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:34,559
Speaker 1: I feel lucky to get this opportunity to help really

1827
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:38,840
Speaker 1: talented friends and former colleagues jump into these waters. As

1828
01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:40,679
Speaker 1: I say, it's a big cliff dive, but I promise

1829
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:51,840
Speaker 1: you there's water there. And you know, I you know,

1830
01:52:51,920 --> 01:52:54,360
Speaker 1: when you look back and realize this moment that we're

1831
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:58,320
Speaker 1: in with corporate owned media, I don't know. I think

1832
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:00,680
Speaker 1: I think I was able to maximize everything that was

1833
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:04,800
Speaker 1: possible under that situation. And you know, that was as

1834
01:53:04,840 --> 01:53:07,560
Speaker 1: I was talking with an old friend yesterday. Actually we

1835
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:11,200
Speaker 1: were doing a little catching up and reminiscing and lamenting

1836
01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 1: about what's happening to our friend's mom, And you know,

1837
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: He put it as like, you know, it's so different

1838
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:25,000
Speaker 1: now that it's it's not even the same thing I worked.

1839
01:53:25,360 --> 01:53:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't recognize this network. I say, it is. No.

1840
01:53:30,280 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 1: This not me dissing them. It's just totally different, right,

1841
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:37,080
Speaker 1: the separation from the there's no cable channel anymore. They basically,

1842
01:53:37,400 --> 01:53:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, just reimagined. Right, there's a real shrinkage of

1843
01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:45,760
Speaker 1: what NBC News is. And you know, I don't I

1844
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:50,880
Speaker 1: know this. I wouldn't be happy under this circumstance, but

1845
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, I wore the jersey, so I still root

1846
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:58,880
Speaker 1: for him. I root for the individuals there because there's

1847
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 1: some good people. I'm still there doing some good reporting.

1848
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:06,639
Speaker 1: I just hope they're given the opportunity to do it all. Right,

1849
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:09,000
Speaker 1: next one, let's see, He says, Hey, I rarely miss

1850
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:10,920
Speaker 1: an episode and really appreciate how you approach issues with

1851
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,880
Speaker 1: balance and thoughtfulness. You give me hope multiple times a week.

1852
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:16,479
Speaker 1: My wife tells me this all the time. You have

1853
01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:18,880
Speaker 1: to get people help, don't depress them too much. So

1854
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:20,800
Speaker 1: I appreciate you saying that. I sensed a bit of

1855
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:23,160
Speaker 1: fatigue in your one twenty six episode, which is understandable

1856
01:54:23,200 --> 01:54:25,920
Speaker 1: given the repetitive nature of our political chaos. Just wanted

1857
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:28,240
Speaker 1: to say, your perspective is helping thousands of us see

1858
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:30,960
Speaker 1: the bigger picture and hold on to hope. Keep it up. Well,

1859
01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:33,960
Speaker 1: can I confess your You know, I worried that I

1860
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:36,960
Speaker 1: let my fatigue show that night. I just was tired.

1861
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:40,560
Speaker 1: I'd been traveling and doing all this, So I you know,

1862
01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:43,600
Speaker 1: my goal is to never let you see me tired.

1863
01:54:43,640 --> 01:54:46,000
Speaker 1: Trust me, I always have a cup of coffee going

1864
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:50,400
Speaker 1: because I don't you know, I appreciate the sentiment, but

1865
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:53,560
Speaker 1: you shouldn't catch that. But you were correct. You caught

1866
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 1: me a little tired. Next question comes from Eric R.

1867
01:54:57,880 --> 01:55:02,200
Speaker 1: North Oaks, Minnesota with parentheses. Want to be Canadian Chuck?

1868
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,280
Speaker 1: First time? Long time? Why isn't there more discussion about

1869
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 1: the contrast between Trump wanting to send US troops into

1870
01:55:06,920 --> 01:55:10,200
Speaker 1: Iran to protect protesters while abeying protesters in Minneapolis as

1871
01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:13,240
Speaker 1: domestic terrorists. Imagine if Canada crossed our border to defend

1872
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:18,040
Speaker 1: US protesters, how would MAGA respond? The inconsistency is baffling, Eric,

1873
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:21,280
Speaker 1: That's a terrific observation. I you know, I want to

1874
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:23,120
Speaker 1: sit here and say, oh, well, you know this is

1875
01:55:23,160 --> 01:55:26,840
Speaker 1: apples and pairs and you know, no, it's a terrific observation.

1876
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:30,920
Speaker 1: I think the second part, what if Canada sent in

1877
01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:35,200
Speaker 1: troops to protect protesters. It's you know, if you recall

1878
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:37,760
Speaker 1: Tim Wallas was asked about bringing in the National Guard

1879
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:40,000
Speaker 1: and he seemed to think he was concerned that you

1880
01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:46,040
Speaker 1: know that maybe the military confrontation is is is the

1881
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:48,960
Speaker 1: pretext that that Trump might be looking for and all that.

1882
01:55:49,240 --> 01:55:57,520
Speaker 1: So it's I, you know, I don't have I don't

1883
01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 1: have a lot to add to your comparison. It is now,

1884
01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:06,160
Speaker 1: can I just say something on Iran? Donald Trump is

1885
01:56:06,200 --> 01:56:11,480
Speaker 1: playing with America's credibility again, these Iranian protesters. It's just

1886
01:56:11,600 --> 01:56:15,280
Speaker 1: like he is messing with these Venezuelan Venezuelan dissidents. You

1887
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:18,280
Speaker 1: know what, the Venezuelan dissidents want, the democracy. You know what,

1888
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:21,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is not delivering a democracy. He is keeping

1889
01:56:22,680 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 1: right Maduro's number two in power because she is simply

1890
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,440
Speaker 1: trying to buy time and is playing the transactional game.

1891
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 1: And Trump, as long as he gets what he wants

1892
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:36,240
Speaker 1: in regards to control and oil, he doesn't care about democracy.

1893
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:39,920
Speaker 1: So I do think Donald Trump is telling us something

1894
01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:46,040
Speaker 1: about what he thinks of democracy by what he's not

1895
01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:51,240
Speaker 1: doing in Venezuela. The fact that this is not a priority. Well,

1896
01:56:51,480 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 1: if democracy is not a priority when you have an

1897
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:58,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to make it a priority in another country, it's

1898
01:56:58,160 --> 01:57:01,920
Speaker 1: clearly not a priority for him here. So that's the

1899
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:05,200
Speaker 1: unfortunate takeaway. Now, speaking of American credibility with the Iranian

1900
01:57:05,240 --> 01:57:13,360
Speaker 1: hostage of the Iranian protesters, you know, every time we

1901
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:18,360
Speaker 1: make a promise and don't follow through overseas, a potential terrorist,

1902
01:57:18,840 --> 01:57:23,640
Speaker 1: future terrorist attacking the United States or a US entity

1903
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:32,280
Speaker 1: only increases. Right, somebody who's fifteen protesting in Iran will

1904
01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:35,760
Speaker 1: see their parent killed and wondering how come the Americans

1905
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:38,520
Speaker 1: didn't come. They said they would come, but they didn't

1906
01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:42,800
Speaker 1: follow through. Their word means nothing. The impression that leads

1907
01:57:43,040 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 1: each time, right is it is to make a promise

1908
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:53,160
Speaker 1: and then abandon is in some ways worse than not

1909
01:57:53,360 --> 01:57:55,800
Speaker 1: doing anything. But at least you didn't promise that you would.

1910
01:57:57,200 --> 01:58:02,040
Speaker 1: So look, it's a fair picture you're painting about, you know,

1911
01:58:02,120 --> 01:58:05,080
Speaker 1: the sort of protesters. But I think if we're really

1912
01:58:05,120 --> 01:58:08,640
Speaker 1: trying to understand does he care about democracy or not?

1913
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:13,680
Speaker 1: I think the actions in Venezuela say it all and

1914
01:58:13,800 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 1: the lack of prioritization of making this a democracy. There

1915
01:58:17,000 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 1: is a democratic elected government already ready to go, and

1916
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:26,040
Speaker 1: the inability to acknowledge that is because for whatever reason,

1917
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:31,280
Speaker 1: they haven't financially paid whatever price. I guess it needs

1918
01:58:31,320 --> 01:58:36,360
Speaker 1: to be paid to become to get this, to get

1919
01:58:36,400 --> 01:58:39,640
Speaker 1: the support of the United States for what the will

1920
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:46,280
Speaker 1: of the people want it. But I also worry about

1921
01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, he's used a lot of hot rhetoric with

1922
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:52,920
Speaker 1: these Iranian protesters, and we can debate whether American firepower

1923
01:58:52,960 --> 01:58:55,320
Speaker 1: should be used to protect these protesters or not. You know,

1924
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:58,800
Speaker 1: why in Iran but not in me? And mar right

1925
01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:01,680
Speaker 1: why in you know? Picking and choosing when we step

1926
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:05,000
Speaker 1: in is always comes with that comes with a lot

1927
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:08,760
Speaker 1: of problems long term. But making a promise and not

1928
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:12,160
Speaker 1: keeping it is in some ways the worst possible outcome.

1929
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:19,120
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Darryl He says, longtime listener and

1930
01:59:19,160 --> 01:59:21,320
Speaker 1: fellow alum of Miami Killian and the University of Miami

1931
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:23,200
Speaker 1: at class in ninety seven. Hey, what you take on

1932
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:25,840
Speaker 1: the current state of NILAN college football, specifically Yum's approach

1933
01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:29,200
Speaker 1: to bringing established quarterbacks rather than developing talent from within.

1934
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:32,360
Speaker 1: I worry this could push promising recruits like Darien Coleman

1935
01:59:32,440 --> 01:59:34,480
Speaker 1: to transfer and thrive elsewhere. Thanks and keep up the

1936
01:59:34,520 --> 01:59:38,400
Speaker 1: great podcasting, Darryl. You're not the only person worried about this.

1937
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:40,640
Speaker 1: And I saw that the Hurricane. You know, I'd say

1938
01:59:40,680 --> 01:59:47,120
Speaker 1: the Hurricane fanatics like yourself and myself were pretty divided,

1939
01:59:47,280 --> 01:59:52,040
Speaker 1: right Like I was, I was weirdly not confident that

1940
01:59:52,160 --> 01:59:55,280
Speaker 1: we'd be okay if we didn't get a top notch

1941
01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:59,960
Speaker 1: portal quarterback. But that but that, I'm like, all right,

1942
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, we'll find a Ken Dorsey. We'll find it

1943
02:00:02,800 --> 02:00:05,440
Speaker 1: Steve Walsh. And what do I mean by that? Both

1944
02:00:05,440 --> 02:00:07,360
Speaker 1: Steve Walsh and Ken Dorsey did get a couple of

1945
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:09,800
Speaker 1: cups of coffee in the NFL. Ken Dorsey became a coach,

1946
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:14,440
Speaker 1: really and he's a really good coach. Steve Walsh, I

1947
02:00:14,440 --> 02:00:18,760
Speaker 1: think does some coaching in Minnesota. But neither one. We're

1948
02:00:19,080 --> 02:00:23,520
Speaker 1: sort of highly touted NFL quarterbacks. But they had great

1949
02:00:23,560 --> 02:00:27,560
Speaker 1: offensive lines, they had great running backs and receivers, and

1950
02:00:27,680 --> 02:00:30,839
Speaker 1: they were I don't want to call them game managers,

1951
02:00:31,040 --> 02:00:34,360
Speaker 1: sounds like a negative. They were better than that. They

1952
02:00:34,400 --> 02:00:37,840
Speaker 1: were cerebral, they understood the offense and all that so

1953
02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:42,360
Speaker 1: I certainly think that the way Miami has built this

1954
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:45,360
Speaker 1: brother the way Mario wants to build, which is, you

1955
02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:49,400
Speaker 1: get as deep of an offensive line and defensive line

1956
02:00:49,400 --> 02:00:53,240
Speaker 1: as you can, you get as many playmakers as you can,

1957
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:57,400
Speaker 1: and then you know on receivers, and then you make

1958
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:01,000
Speaker 1: it where it is hard for an average to above

1959
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:03,200
Speaker 1: average to a great quarterback to fail no matter what

1960
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:08,160
Speaker 1: level they're in. And so as long as we're building

1961
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:12,360
Speaker 1: these powerful offensive lines, I'm not concerned about this, and

1962
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:15,160
Speaker 1: I think that this quarterback. I mean, here's the thing.

1963
02:01:17,240 --> 02:01:20,200
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the top, look at all of

1964
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:24,160
Speaker 1: the top top ten. Let's just go through the top

1965
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:26,800
Speaker 1: ten programs real quick. Ohio State last year won a

1966
02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:29,240
Speaker 1: national title with a portal quarterback. In the end of

1967
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:32,000
Speaker 1: this year went to a national lade with a portal quarterback.

1968
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:34,920
Speaker 1: Notre Dame was in the finals, lost the finals with

1969
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:39,240
Speaker 1: a portal quarterback. Miami lost the finals with a portal quarterback.

1970
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:45,960
Speaker 1: It is it is not you can do both. One

1971
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:48,720
Speaker 1: could argue Georgia hasn't won a title because they stuck

1972
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:52,520
Speaker 1: with Gunner Stockton when maybe they should have shopped for

1973
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:58,200
Speaker 1: a portal quarterback. Is that what happened? To Alabama, right

1974
02:01:58,480 --> 02:02:02,080
Speaker 1: is you see LSU has had some success with portal quarterbacks,

1975
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:05,360
Speaker 1: Texas has arch Manning. I don't even think that counts

1976
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:13,000
Speaker 1: right on that front. But I think that, you know,

1977
02:02:13,280 --> 02:02:18,040
Speaker 1: you're assuming this is in Miami's control. I think until

1978
02:02:18,080 --> 02:02:21,280
Speaker 1: we get some sort of parameters around transfers and how

1979
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:25,120
Speaker 1: this all works, the quarterbacks themselves are going to keep

1980
02:02:25,160 --> 02:02:29,560
Speaker 1: shopping because the paydays are there. Because you know, there's

1981
02:02:29,560 --> 02:02:33,440
Speaker 1: always one program that thinks they're a quarterback away from

1982
02:02:33,480 --> 02:02:36,920
Speaker 1: relevancy if some form or another, and will overpay. So

1983
02:02:37,040 --> 02:02:39,040
Speaker 1: you're going to get more of these quarterbacks to get

1984
02:02:39,080 --> 02:02:41,680
Speaker 1: out of the portal and go in. And so do

1985
02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:45,320
Speaker 1: I do? I you know, think, well, my guess is

1986
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:48,080
Speaker 1: sixty percent of Miami starting quarterback until the system is

1987
02:02:48,200 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 1: sort of changed. If this is the system, that a

1988
02:02:50,760 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 1: majority of our starters will be portal quarterbacks. But if

1989
02:02:54,920 --> 02:02:58,680
Speaker 1: there's you know, we'll find out, you know, what happens

1990
02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:01,960
Speaker 1: to how we recruited for we get a major injury, right,

1991
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, there's also unforeseen issues that could pop up

1992
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:12,520
Speaker 1: that could end up forcing our hand, and we'll find

1993
02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:15,160
Speaker 1: out just how good our high school recruiting has been

1994
02:03:15,280 --> 02:03:22,400
Speaker 1: and our quarterback development has been But I think as

1995
02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:26,440
Speaker 1: long as we're building an offensive line and whether it's

1996
02:03:26,680 --> 02:03:28,960
Speaker 1: making sure we have the best freshman and the best

1997
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:32,800
Speaker 1: portal right like that is you know, then I do

1998
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:35,880
Speaker 1: think you can plug and play quarterback. It's probably the

1999
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:39,160
Speaker 1: only position I'm comfortable plugging in playing like that. But

2000
02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:44,520
Speaker 1: I think you can. Next question comes from Heather from Decatur,

2001
02:03:46,200 --> 02:03:50,760
Speaker 1: longtime listener. I'm curious Illinois or Alabama. Heather, long time listener,

2002
02:03:50,760 --> 02:03:54,680
Speaker 1: appreciate the clear, nonpartisan analysis that helps me stay grounded

2003
02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:57,400
Speaker 1: in two day's political climate. Well, thank you for saying that, Heather,

2004
02:03:57,720 --> 02:04:00,000
Speaker 1: as a Georgia native, I'm curious about your recent confident

2005
02:04:00,080 --> 02:04:02,640
Speaker 1: that's in John Ossoff holding the Senate seat beyond the

2006
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:04,960
Speaker 1: two flipped PSC races. Do you have other insights? I

2007
02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:07,760
Speaker 1: were those results might be skewed since many Republican areas

2008
02:04:07,800 --> 02:04:10,120
Speaker 1: had fewer races on the ballot compared to Democratic strongholds.

2009
02:04:10,160 --> 02:04:13,480
Speaker 1: Thanks and war Eagle. Obviously it's de cater Alabama. What

2010
02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 1: you take on Auburn's new head coach. I love Auburn's

2011
02:04:16,240 --> 02:04:18,920
Speaker 1: new head coach, Alex Grolls. I think he's got a

2012
02:04:19,000 --> 02:04:20,560
Speaker 1: great story. I don't know if you know it. I

2013
02:04:20,640 --> 02:04:23,200
Speaker 1: think he was, if I'm not mistaken. He was born

2014
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:26,360
Speaker 1: in Moscow in nineteen eighty four. Parents brought him over

2015
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:28,520
Speaker 1: to the United States at the age of seven, became

2016
02:04:28,560 --> 02:04:32,680
Speaker 1: a football crazed, got into it, all that stuff, and

2017
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:34,880
Speaker 1: he's bringing over a great quarterback and Byron Brown. So

2018
02:04:35,040 --> 02:04:37,320
Speaker 1: I you know, look, I've got Auburn fans in my

2019
02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:42,640
Speaker 1: in my family and two our closest friends, and some

2020
02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:46,680
Speaker 1: of my closest relatives big Auburn fans. So I'm I'm

2021
02:04:46,680 --> 02:04:50,160
Speaker 1: an Auburn apologist in general. I've become I'm learning to

2022
02:04:50,240 --> 02:04:55,560
Speaker 1: become one. They still didn't deserve a shot at the

2023
02:04:55,640 --> 02:04:58,120
Speaker 1: national title over Miami in nineteen eighty three, Stephen, and

2024
02:04:58,200 --> 02:05:02,120
Speaker 1: I'll just leave it at that. But I'm bullish on him.

2025
02:05:03,240 --> 02:05:08,440
Speaker 1: I uh, you know, I just hope the Auburn powers

2026
02:05:08,480 --> 02:05:13,760
Speaker 1: that be have patience, right, They're so impatience nobody ever

2027
02:05:13,880 --> 02:05:16,600
Speaker 1: seems to get a chance to build a program. But

2028
02:05:17,680 --> 02:05:22,680
Speaker 1: I think I like that they they're trying this, you know,

2029
02:05:23,480 --> 02:05:26,520
Speaker 1: instead of like trying the searching for Bobby, you know,

2030
02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:29,880
Speaker 1: in the obsessions with Bobby Petrino or throwing cash at

2031
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:33,000
Speaker 1: Lane Kiffin or doing something like that, right, seeing if

2032
02:05:33,000 --> 02:05:35,720
Speaker 1: they can get a guy from the level below, find

2033
02:05:35,800 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 1: their own Urban Meyer, right, who came at the time

2034
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:42,360
Speaker 1: from the mid majors and then turned you know, came

2035
02:05:42,400 --> 02:05:48,200
Speaker 1: in and helped make Florida power. So I would I'm

2036
02:05:48,400 --> 02:05:51,720
Speaker 1: I am more bullish on him, and I'd like I'd

2037
02:05:51,800 --> 02:05:54,360
Speaker 1: like to see the South Florida guy do good on

2038
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:58,720
Speaker 1: that front. Now, as for the other part of your question,

2039
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:03,720
Speaker 1: John Assoff, what gives me this confidence? It's the weak

2040
02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:07,240
Speaker 1: Republican primary field as well. Right, So you throw a

2041
02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:10,440
Speaker 1: bunch of things. Number one, you know, Asofsun and Coombent

2042
02:06:10,480 --> 02:06:15,360
Speaker 1: has an enormous financial advantage. Number Two, the only can

2043
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:17,960
Speaker 1: the I would argue, there were two candidates he had

2044
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:21,680
Speaker 1: to fear, Brian Camp and Brad Rathensberger. Neither one of

2045
02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:27,120
Speaker 1: them are running. Three, you have the national climate and

2046
02:06:27,240 --> 02:06:30,040
Speaker 1: Georgia clearly being a swing state now seems to move

2047
02:06:30,080 --> 02:06:33,120
Speaker 1: in that direction. I agree with you, I I it

2048
02:06:33,280 --> 02:06:35,720
Speaker 1: is not the margins. It is the result of the

2049
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:38,440
Speaker 1: PSC races, not necessarily even the margins. That impressed me

2050
02:06:40,480 --> 02:06:42,720
Speaker 1: because you're right, you know, you had you had to

2051
02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:44,960
Speaker 1: turn out differential that was huge. But the fact that

2052
02:06:45,320 --> 02:06:48,320
Speaker 1: you still got those huge margins, says something, but it

2053
02:06:48,480 --> 02:06:52,040
Speaker 1: mostly goes this is a weak field. I think the

2054
02:06:52,080 --> 02:06:54,400
Speaker 1: strongest candidate will be Derek Dooley, but it looks like

2055
02:06:54,520 --> 02:06:56,920
Speaker 1: the likely opponent's going to be somebody with the first

2056
02:06:56,960 --> 02:06:59,520
Speaker 1: name of Congressman, which I think is an absolute gift

2057
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:04,600
Speaker 1: because his biggest competitive you know, in theory, being a

2058
02:07:04,720 --> 02:07:06,680
Speaker 1: part of the Washington Swamp is not good. But if

2059
02:07:06,680 --> 02:07:09,880
Speaker 1: you're a House Republican people, people don't like Congress. I

2060
02:07:09,920 --> 02:07:12,680
Speaker 1: think they hate the House more than the Senate, just generically, right,

2061
02:07:12,880 --> 02:07:16,440
Speaker 1: So I just think you throw all that together, open

2062
02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:20,200
Speaker 1: governor's seat. No Brian camp leading the ticket either, right,

2063
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:23,880
Speaker 1: his his political machine. Just yes, it's helping Derek Dooley

2064
02:07:23,920 --> 02:07:25,760
Speaker 1: in that Senate primary. But I think when you throw

2065
02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:29,360
Speaker 1: all that together, and I was, you know, look, I

2066
02:07:29,560 --> 02:07:32,960
Speaker 1: thought as Off was the accidental senator when you know,

2067
02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:35,640
Speaker 1: sort of writing the coattails of Raphaeld Warnock back in

2068
02:07:36,200 --> 02:07:41,160
Speaker 1: during those runoffs. You know, he's got a formidable he's

2069
02:07:41,240 --> 02:07:45,560
Speaker 1: always been formidable on raising money, and he works his

2070
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:49,120
Speaker 1: you know what, off, he works his as Off Off.

2071
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:52,800
Speaker 1: I guess it's a to to try to create a

2072
02:07:52,920 --> 02:07:56,240
Speaker 1: Dad humor pun there. So, yeah, that's I think this

2073
02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:00,560
Speaker 1: is I'm I'm inclined to right now. It's in lean

2074
02:08:00,680 --> 02:08:03,920
Speaker 1: deed to me. Until you show me proof that one

2075
02:08:03,960 --> 02:08:06,160
Speaker 1: of these Republicans can get the fifty percent plus one

2076
02:08:06,400 --> 02:08:09,400
Speaker 1: right now, I don't see it all right. Final question

2077
02:08:09,480 --> 02:08:13,880
Speaker 1: of the day comes from Colonel Stephen Mitchell, the United

2078
02:08:13,920 --> 02:08:16,400
Speaker 1: States Air Force retired, and he writes this good day check.

2079
02:08:16,400 --> 02:08:19,040
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your January twenty ninth podcast, especially in

2080
02:08:19,080 --> 02:08:21,200
Speaker 1: the segment on Trump's pull numbers. It seems he's losing

2081
02:08:21,240 --> 02:08:23,720
Speaker 1: support from voters who backed him for economic reasons, but

2082
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:25,560
Speaker 1: I'm unsure if the same is true for those focused

2083
02:08:25,600 --> 02:08:28,560
Speaker 1: on the border. Given your polling expertise, what you take

2084
02:08:28,640 --> 02:08:31,920
Speaker 1: and aside from the economy, what do you think will

2085
02:08:31,960 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 1: be the top issue on voters minds? Thank you very much. Look,

2086
02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:38,840
Speaker 1: I think obviously you're gonna have economy one. I think

2087
02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:43,200
Speaker 1: there's the question I have is is there a do

2088
02:08:43,320 --> 02:08:48,440
Speaker 1: we create a bucket called sort of chaos or tumult right,

2089
02:08:48,840 --> 02:08:51,880
Speaker 1: Because ultimately, I think the reason why Trump won in

2090
02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:54,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four is because the perceived chaos Biden created

2091
02:08:55,000 --> 02:08:58,960
Speaker 1: at the border. In addition to sourness about the economy,

2092
02:08:59,400 --> 02:09:01,600
Speaker 1: like you need it, you needed sort of both things.

2093
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:05,800
Speaker 1: I think sourness in the economy, plus you know, is

2094
02:09:05,920 --> 02:09:08,760
Speaker 1: he intentionally dividing the country with ice? Right, it's not

2095
02:09:08,920 --> 02:09:11,040
Speaker 1: that the it's not that what he did on the

2096
02:09:11,080 --> 02:09:14,240
Speaker 1: borders unpopular. In fact, that's an important distinction, which I

2097
02:09:14,680 --> 02:09:19,400
Speaker 1: which you're I think indicating that you understand about how

2098
02:09:20,760 --> 02:09:24,440
Speaker 1: you know. The danger for Republicans now is that the

2099
02:09:24,600 --> 02:09:28,000
Speaker 1: voters are pretty sophisticated in how they are processing the

2100
02:09:28,040 --> 02:09:32,280
Speaker 1: immigration issue. When you ask them about border security, they're

2101
02:09:32,320 --> 02:09:36,160
Speaker 1: impressed with the Trump administration. They're mostly approving. When you

2102
02:09:36,200 --> 02:09:38,920
Speaker 1: ask them about immigration, they see that through the prism

2103
02:09:38,960 --> 02:09:42,320
Speaker 1: of ice, not security anymore, and they don't like what

2104
02:09:42,400 --> 02:09:46,600
Speaker 1: they're seeing. So I think the fact that that's been

2105
02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:52,560
Speaker 1: split right where it's an opening if a nimble Democrat

2106
02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:55,760
Speaker 1: knows how to take it, which is look, Biden was

2107
02:09:55,840 --> 02:09:58,280
Speaker 1: terrible on border security. I'm not going to let that

2108
02:09:58,440 --> 02:10:00,520
Speaker 1: happen again. And I'm glad to see what the Trump

2109
02:10:00,560 --> 02:10:03,320
Speaker 1: administration has done at the border, but what they're doing

2110
02:10:03,400 --> 02:10:06,600
Speaker 1: in our communities across the country is outrageous, etc. Etc. Right.

2111
02:10:06,920 --> 02:10:08,800
Speaker 1: So the point is that I think what it does

2112
02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:12,400
Speaker 1: provide is the Democrats an opening to look like, hey,

2113
02:10:12,520 --> 02:10:16,680
Speaker 1: I'm no Biden on the border, but I'm no Trump

2114
02:10:16,840 --> 02:10:21,320
Speaker 1: in harassing Americans either. Right, It's a way to differentiate

2115
02:10:21,400 --> 02:10:24,600
Speaker 1: yourself from the Democratic brand on a negative aspect of

2116
02:10:24,640 --> 02:10:27,040
Speaker 1: the border and at the same time being able to

2117
02:10:27,480 --> 02:10:30,840
Speaker 1: differentiate yourself and show empathy and compassionate about what's happening

2118
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:33,720
Speaker 1: in places like Minneapolis. So that's where I think that

2119
02:10:34,360 --> 02:10:37,520
Speaker 1: there's a real problem now for Republicans on this issue,

2120
02:10:37,560 --> 02:10:41,760
Speaker 1: and why so many of them are starting to whisper

2121
02:10:41,880 --> 02:10:45,440
Speaker 1: loudly that Stephen Miller's a problem, that he is creating

2122
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:50,560
Speaker 1: a narrative, creating a perception about Republicans. It's going to

2123
02:10:50,600 --> 02:10:53,320
Speaker 1: be hard to overcome in many of these places. You know,

2124
02:10:53,600 --> 02:10:57,440
Speaker 1: maybe the base is happy, but that is it on

2125
02:10:57,560 --> 02:11:01,400
Speaker 1: this stuff. But when you're asking about other issues, look,

2126
02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:05,760
Speaker 1: I think obviously economy, anything that's you know, So do

2127
02:11:05,840 --> 02:11:09,080
Speaker 1: you consider healthcare and economy issue? I kind of do, right,

2128
02:11:09,280 --> 02:11:15,720
Speaker 1: So I think that's there. If Democrats let me do this,

2129
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:20,120
Speaker 1: let me flip the question here. If Democrats have a

2130
02:11:20,280 --> 02:11:24,520
Speaker 1: huge night, it isn't going to be because they only

2131
02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:28,440
Speaker 1: want on the economy. If Democrats have a huge night,

2132
02:11:28,520 --> 02:11:33,160
Speaker 1: it means they got the corruption issue into the mind

2133
02:11:33,280 --> 02:11:36,000
Speaker 1: of the swing voter, that they found a way into it.

2134
02:11:36,120 --> 02:11:39,880
Speaker 1: Maybe they did it via exhaustion, you know, the Trump

2135
02:11:40,040 --> 02:11:42,440
Speaker 1: chaos idea, look what he does at the White House,

2136
02:11:42,720 --> 02:11:46,360
Speaker 1: Kennedy Centers selling foreign policy, like lumping it all in together.

2137
02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:53,320
Speaker 1: But you know, I think the difference between Democrats having

2138
02:11:53,360 --> 02:11:57,120
Speaker 1: a good night in November and having an incredible night

2139
02:11:57,160 --> 02:12:06,640
Speaker 1: in November is their ability to take these various gross, corruptive,

2140
02:12:08,160 --> 02:12:12,240
Speaker 1: uncomfortable stories and figuring out how to package it as one. Right.

2141
02:12:12,760 --> 02:12:17,080
Speaker 1: COVID helped paint a picture of, you know, all the

2142
02:12:17,120 --> 02:12:19,680
Speaker 1: Trump chaos and it led to this right, and so

2143
02:12:19,800 --> 02:12:23,360
Speaker 1: that's why that messaging was was pretty easy to get

2144
02:12:23,440 --> 02:12:29,680
Speaker 1: him out of there. If you know, it's sort of

2145
02:12:31,080 --> 02:12:32,640
Speaker 1: I'll be curious to see how they do it and

2146
02:12:32,760 --> 02:12:34,720
Speaker 1: if they can do it. But my point is is

2147
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:38,000
Speaker 1: that it's one of those if I'm in a coma,

2148
02:12:38,080 --> 02:12:40,000
Speaker 1: If I go in to coma to my and I

2149
02:12:40,040 --> 02:12:42,280
Speaker 1: don't wake up till day after election and you tell

2150
02:12:42,320 --> 02:12:44,400
Speaker 1: me they won six Senate seats and thirty House seats,

2151
02:12:45,080 --> 02:12:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, the corruption issue must have played

2152
02:12:49,160 --> 02:12:52,840
Speaker 1: that would be my initial instinct. So I don't know

2153
02:12:52,920 --> 02:12:58,360
Speaker 1: if it's going to play, but I think this is

2154
02:12:58,400 --> 02:13:01,160
Speaker 1: one of those for them to go from good to great,

2155
02:13:02,080 --> 02:13:03,760
Speaker 1: they need to figure out how to get the corruption

2156
02:13:03,880 --> 02:13:09,720
Speaker 1: issue to be easy to digest and something the quote

2157
02:13:09,920 --> 02:13:13,160
Speaker 1: check on Trump, right, the check on his power, you

2158
02:13:13,240 --> 02:13:15,400
Speaker 1: know it is. It is the path for them to

2159
02:13:15,440 --> 02:13:19,320
Speaker 1: get to that messaging. But you need to make the

2160
02:13:19,440 --> 02:13:22,080
Speaker 1: case that he's corrupt and that this corruption is happening

2161
02:13:22,560 --> 02:13:25,400
Speaker 1: in order to do it. And we'll see if they're

2162
02:13:25,400 --> 02:13:28,240
Speaker 1: able to pull that off. All right, there you go.

2163
02:13:29,160 --> 02:13:34,800
Speaker 1: That does it for me. On a Wednesday, man, I

2164
02:13:34,840 --> 02:13:37,800
Speaker 1: got to this is a political junkies, junkies episode trying

2165
02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:40,200
Speaker 1: to explain this is like the old hotline for me,

2166
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:45,240
Speaker 1: little media narrative explanation, a little historical comparison with Eddie Roosevelt,

2167
02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:49,840
Speaker 1: a little electoral scoreboard in college strategizing for twenty thirty two,

2168
02:13:50,400 --> 02:13:54,160
Speaker 1: plus this, and somebody's asking me whether you know what

2169
02:13:54,280 --> 02:13:57,520
Speaker 1: do I miss about NBC at this point? Nothing? This,

2170
02:13:58,920 --> 02:14:02,560
Speaker 1: This is this is the broadcast, the type of broadcast

2171
02:14:02,600 --> 02:14:04,640
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to do. So I appreciate you listening,

2172
02:14:04,920 --> 02:14:08,480
Speaker 1: appreciate your support. I can subscribe, don't forget to use

2173
02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:12,640
Speaker 1: all the codes from our advertisers, and with that, I'll

2174
02:14:12,640 --> 02:14:13,600
Speaker 1: see you in twenty four hours.