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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't just stories of things we simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer too. Hi. There, Welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by

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Speaker 1: my lovely co host and Steve and your normal co

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Speaker 1: host Steve's that was very nice. Sorry, yeah, I'm lovely. Yeah. Alright,

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna and we're gonna solve another cool mystery

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Speaker 1: this week. Our mystery um this week is set in

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Speaker 1: the town of Ketty, California, And of course we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the Ketty UFO incident. Don't get people's hopes now,

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Speaker 1: I know no UFOs and Ketty and there might have

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Speaker 1: been I don't know, but just a brief warning. This

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Speaker 1: is this is about multiple murder mystery and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of gruesome. Yeah. Yeah, it's not nice. I was not

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Speaker 1: excited doing the research. Yeah, I don't want to. You

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Speaker 1: should have watched the documentary. Na, did you read the

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Speaker 1: autopsy reports? Maybe was it in the research? Yeah? Then yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't blame you for skipping them. At least there

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Speaker 1: are no photos, although you know it's funny. No, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to go off on that rabbit hole. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking about the kitty murders. Yes, famous kiddy

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Speaker 1: murders from one. But first I want to give a

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Speaker 1: shout out to our listener, Clarissa. Hello Clarissa. Sorry Clarissa.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you get that a lot, so sorry. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: Actually I found this one on my own like a

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Speaker 1: while back, and as I was researching it for this

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Speaker 1: week's episode, I went through the listeners suggestions and discovered

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Speaker 1: the guests actually somebody had suggested it, so you get

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Speaker 1: to have credit where credits do indeed. So yeah, thanks Clarissa. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about Ketty briefly. So, Kenny, California is a

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Speaker 1: very small town. It's getting smaller. It's yeah. Population and yeah,

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Speaker 1: population in the year two thousand was nineties six. Population

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Speaker 1: in two thousand ten was sixty six. That's almost like

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Speaker 1: wag entire O. I know. It's uh. It started out

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Speaker 1: actually it's kind of successful. When it was first founded,

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Speaker 1: I believe in nineteen ten, it was a kind of

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Speaker 1: a waypoint on the rail line up to you seventy

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Speaker 1: or somewhere, or off to Utah. But and so there

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Speaker 1: was a nice little resort there and it was a

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Speaker 1: pleasant little place, nice scenery, but it had followed on

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Speaker 1: hard times by the time and by the time our

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Speaker 1: mystery had occurred and it was not really so much

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Speaker 1: a resort town anymore. There were still all these cabins

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Speaker 1: in the resort. The guy, but the guy who bought

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Speaker 1: the resort owned it. Tourists were coming there, so he

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Speaker 1: wounded up renting the cabins out his low income housing. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was nice of him, pad mortgage. Yeah. Yeah, when

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Speaker 1: you find tennants where you can find tennants, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: then have to be low income housing. So we're so

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Speaker 1: people have an idea. You know, Caddy is close to

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Speaker 1: what major town for people to know, it's about ninety

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Speaker 1: miles northwest of Reno, about about eighty miles east of

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Speaker 1: Red Bluff, California, About sixty miles maybe northeast of Chico, California. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, the whole areas in National Forest that's

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the what what national Forests? I

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Speaker 1: think it's the National Forest because it's in Pluis County.

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Speaker 1: That would make Yeah, you know that area of California

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Speaker 1: is really beautiful to see. Eras are just really nice. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you ever gone on any of those? Uh? I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously I've never been to this particular town, but have

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Speaker 1: you ever driven through some of that area. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a slow drive, but it's not because it's windy roads.

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Speaker 1: It's because you want to take a look around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: except you don't want to stop in Kitty. I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, our mystery begins in Ketty, in

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Speaker 1: Cabin twenty eight of the resort, which is, of course

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Speaker 1: not not really a resort anymore. Cabin was being rented

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Speaker 1: to Glenness Sharp, who went by the name of Sue

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Speaker 1: and her five kids, Uh, John, Sheila, Tina, Ricky and Gregg.

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Speaker 1: She had a lot of kids, so John, John was fifteen,

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Speaker 1: Sheila was seventeen, Tina was twelve, and the youngest were

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Speaker 1: Ricky and Gregg. They were ten and five. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was did you say she was thirty six? He

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Speaker 1: was yet six. That's that's a passel of kids in

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Speaker 1: a short amount of time. She cracked out a bunch

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Speaker 1: of them. She had moved into that cabin cay in

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Speaker 1: November nineteen eighties, so they had been living there that

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Speaker 1: long really, maybe half a year. On the night of

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Speaker 1: April eleventh, one faithful night, Sheila, Sheila was the fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old daughter on seventeen. You're right, okay, yeah, John

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Speaker 1: was fourteen. You're right, alright, alr right. The episode where

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Speaker 1: I get correct you serves me right. So Sheila goes

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Speaker 1: next door to cabin twenty seven for a sleepover with

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Speaker 1: a friend. And Justin Easton, who lived in Cabin twenty six,

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Speaker 1: was friends with the two youngest boys, so he was

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Speaker 1: over at their place. Were a sleepover and this was

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Speaker 1: a Saturday night. Yeah, so sleepovers on a weekend makes sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remembered you being a weekend. I just couldn't been

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Speaker 1: one day. Yeah, it was a Saturday. And here's a

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Speaker 1: fun fact to Justin Easton was the steps of one

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Speaker 1: of the suspects for the murder. So those three boys,

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Speaker 1: the youngest ones, went to bed in the back bedroom

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Speaker 1: at some undetermined time. Then John Sharp, he was a

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old, spent most of the day hanging with

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Speaker 1: a friend named Dana Wingate in a town called Quincy,

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Speaker 1: which is seven miles south of Kenny, And they were

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Speaker 1: seen on Highway seventy apparently by a couple who was

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Speaker 1: driving on the highway. Why they didn't stop and pick

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Speaker 1: them up, I don't know they were. They were hitchhiking

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Speaker 1: back to Ketty from Quincy, and they were seen between

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Speaker 1: nine and ten pm, although I've seen another timeline that

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Speaker 1: has some spotted on the highway at eleven pm, so

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a conflict there. Well. And

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Speaker 1: I know that those boys had been at at Dana's

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Speaker 1: house and had asked to go if they could could

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Speaker 1: stay over at at Johnny's Johnny's house, and one of

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Speaker 1: the stipulations was, yeah, you're welcome to go as long

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Speaker 1: as you can get a ride, you don't hitchhike, and

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, we want hitchhike, don't worry, no big deal.

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Speaker 1: And obviously they totally did it anyway, which is a

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Speaker 1: teenage boy thing to do. Yeah, it is definitely. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what it was like. I mean, I hitched

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Speaker 1: hike a lot when I was not a lot, actually,

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Speaker 1: but I hitchhike some when I was a teenager, and

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Speaker 1: it was a lot easier to get rides back in

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Speaker 1: those days. But then then we had a fewers here

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Speaker 1: and there, and suddenly people are not really into picking

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Speaker 1: up hitchhickers anymore. Yeah, I've never picked up a hitchhike,

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Speaker 1: nor have I ever hitchhiked. Ever, I haven't hitchhiked. But

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a really small town where you

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Speaker 1: knew most of the guys, and it was typically guys,

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Speaker 1: most of the guys you saw walking down the street.

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Speaker 1: So you'd be driving down, Oh there's Mark. Let me

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Speaker 1: pull over and give Mark a ride, and so Mark

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Speaker 1: would come running the car. Hey, thanks buddy, and you

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Speaker 1: give Mark a ride at least as far as you

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Speaker 1: were going. I wouldn't go out of my way, but hey,

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Speaker 1: I can get you here and then you're on your

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Speaker 1: own from there and save them ten miles. They're happy,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, yeah, Well the way back to these

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Speaker 1: guys they so Dana, as you said, it was planning

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Speaker 1: on spending the night at Cabin twenty eight, and which

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Speaker 1: bad idea, Dana, really bad idea. It's it's unclear when

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Speaker 1: they arrived. Some people of hypothesized that perhaps the crime

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Speaker 1: was already underway when they showed up and just they're

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Speaker 1: bad luck, really bad timing on their part. Have people

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Speaker 1: theorized that they brought the crime with them, Yeah, actually,

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Speaker 1: and that is that's definitely one of the possibilities I

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Speaker 1: would consider. Yeah, yeah, you get picked up by a Mr.

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Speaker 1: Psycho Killer. Yeah, and and comes inside with you and yeah,

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Speaker 1: can I come? Can I use your bathroom? You too?

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Speaker 1: You too have been alluding to what's going on, and

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Speaker 1: our listeners don't know what's going on. We gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you about what happened here, because so far we've just

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Speaker 1: board them with information people that don't matter. That's fair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Dan's Danni is coming home with Johnny Sharp and they're

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Speaker 1: gonna He's going to spend the night there. They've got

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Speaker 1: to sleep over in the back bedroom, three little three

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Speaker 1: young boys back. They're already gone to bed. Um Sue

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Speaker 1: Sharp and her daughter Tina, who's twelve, are not yet asleep.

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Speaker 1: And Tina might have been asleep, I'm not sure, but

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Speaker 1: more about that in a second. On the morning of

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Speaker 1: April twelve, Sheila Sharp, who remember what next door for

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Speaker 1: a sleepover. She came home about eight am and discovered

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Speaker 1: that she was an orphan. Of course, yeah, yeah, Actually

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Speaker 1: it turns out she really wasn't an orphan. I checked,

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Speaker 1: and actually she had her father still living, and so

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Speaker 1: they're surviving. Sharp children want to live with the father,

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Speaker 1: so that's good. So she wasn't really an orphan. And

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't resist, so Sue her son, Johnny Sharp

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Speaker 1: and the friend Dana Wingate had all been bludgeoned and

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Speaker 1: stabbed to death. Yeah, really horrible, bloody crime. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and Tina Sharp was missing. Tina sharpwell, girl girl was gone. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The bodies have been tired up with, tied up with

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Speaker 1: with white adhesive tape, probably medical tape, and also electrical

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Speaker 1: wire extension chords. Basically yeah, and um, and then they

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Speaker 1: were like, you know, beaten to death with with a

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Speaker 1: hammer and then stabbed death. Amazingly, the three young boys

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Speaker 1: in the back bedroom were untouched and it appeared that

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Speaker 1: they they slept through the whole thing, although it's hard

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Speaker 1: to imagine exactly how they could have done that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I I have run through my head a million scenarios

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Speaker 1: on how that would have happened, and as if yet

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Speaker 1: I can't figure out a way. Well, you know, here's

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Speaker 1: the thing about kids, particularly kids of that age, is

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Speaker 1: when they sleep, they sleep, particularly if they've been raised

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Speaker 1: and maybe uh kind of more difficult home life environment.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're trained from a child as a

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Speaker 1: baby to sleep through stuff, which is what you do

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Speaker 1: with babies, because you have to because you have to

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Speaker 1: get stuff done while they're sleeping. They can pretty much

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Speaker 1: sleep usually, you know, five to ten year olds can

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Speaker 1: sleep through you know, at least vacuuming and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, unless there it's possible that these murders

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Speaker 1: were carried out without a whole lot of screaming. Given

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Speaker 1: some of the injuries, it's possible that there wasn't actual screaming.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, all the rest of the noises

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Speaker 1: could have been relatively quiet. Well, and if if there's

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Speaker 1: a TV on and you're used to hear in the TV,

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Speaker 1: then in your little kid brain that all melts together.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I I know that I slept through earthquakes

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Speaker 1: as a kid. I once rolled out of the top

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Speaker 1: bunk of a bunk bed as a kid in my

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Speaker 1: sleep and didn't wake up, so I know the kids can. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that that tells you a lot about me now,

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Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure I laid it on my head.

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Speaker 1: But no, I mean that that does explain it. But

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Speaker 1: the other thing is that, you know, the only thing

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Speaker 1: that that I could figure out how these boys could

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Speaker 1: have slept through it, if indeed they did, is that

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Speaker 1: Sue she had I think was her underwear and a

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Speaker 1: rag crammed in her mouth as a gag. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was like a blue bandana, yeah, which and it was

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Speaker 1: like the blue bandanna was which was jammed into her

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Speaker 1: mouth fairly deep, yea. And that secured with adhesive tape

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Speaker 1: and then and then like women's underwear wrapped around that.

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Speaker 1: So which I don't even want to get into the

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Speaker 1: Freudian reason that's there, but that the the two boys

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Speaker 1: were not we're not gags as far as I know.

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Speaker 1: Was she the only one who was stabbed through the neck? Now,

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Speaker 1: actually it was her son, John got stabbed through the neck,

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Speaker 1: and so that the cause of death in the case

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Speaker 1: of John was was severing of the crodd artery. Well

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Speaker 1: that would that could sever some boal. Yeah. Well, but

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Speaker 1: but the thing is they were tied up. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: let's let me ask you this. Are we going to

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Speaker 1: get into the rest of the details about crime later

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Speaker 1: or should we just do it now? I was going

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Speaker 1: to I was going to talk about the autopsy in

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Speaker 1: a minute. Let's let's okay, because because there's some things

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Speaker 1: about like what you were saying, I know some details,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want to I don't want to jump

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Speaker 1: the shark here. Yeah, well that the wrong term. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the wrong term totally, and our show will never jump. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is. There is some dispute about whether Justin, perhaps

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Speaker 1: Justin Easton, actually actually did wake up and open the

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Speaker 1: door and look out and witness are all the and

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Speaker 1: he's given such wildly varying accounts. How old is he though,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I think it was ten or twelve

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Speaker 1: or something like that. He was friends with the younger

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Speaker 1: anywhere from I guess five to twelve. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can see how your story could change a couple

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Speaker 1: of times. Yeah, yeah, Well, the hard thing about his

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Speaker 1: story and the way that it changed is what happened.

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Speaker 1: I know that I was the only one who went

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Speaker 1: ahead and sacrificed three hours of my life to watch

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Speaker 1: the documentaries that were made on this summer. Really into

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Speaker 1: all our listeners. I did it for you. You You don't

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Speaker 1: have to listen to the weird mono and then stereo

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Speaker 1: audio thing that goes on in this documentary. But they

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Speaker 1: record him and they talk about it, and one is

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Speaker 1: when you listen to this guy tell the account of

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Speaker 1: what happens, and I understand it's twenty some years later

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Speaker 1: because the documentary was done in the early two thousand's.

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Speaker 1: He's been telling this story for years. But he you

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Speaker 1: could see he is just glaze eyed, repeating things like

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Speaker 1: there's no emotion. He's not thinking about it. He's regurgitating words.

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Speaker 1: We were watching it on the couch and my fiance

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Speaker 1: was sitting there watching it. I was listening to the

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Speaker 1: audio and headphones, and she's going, there's something weird about

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Speaker 1: that dude. And I imagine it's because of what he

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Speaker 1: went through and then all of the attention that was

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Speaker 1: paid on him. But the hard part is I I

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Speaker 1: have a hard part with his story, and I blame

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Speaker 1: it on the cops. Do you guys know that the

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Speaker 1: cops put him under hypnosis. Yeah, the the lead investigator

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Speaker 1: had him hypnotized, so he told the story once it

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Speaker 1: shifted a little bit. They hypnotized him, it shift a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and then it just kind of it did

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Speaker 1: this weird progression through times. So I really I would

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Speaker 1: like to say that he didn't see anything. I kind

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Speaker 1: of suspect that he didn't and he set himself like

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Speaker 1: you know, on one account, he like got up and

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Speaker 1: opened the door and saw this in another account, it's

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Speaker 1: like he had a dream. It just dreamed the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So he And the thing about hypnosis too is you

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Speaker 1: can't force somebody to be hypnotized. The subject has to

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Speaker 1: want to be hypnotized. Well, yeah, maybe they didn't even

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Speaker 1: have him actually under well and here, well that's exactly

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Speaker 1: because during that one during hypnosis, I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things he said is that he was watching from

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Speaker 1: a crack in the bedroom door. As he watched the

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Speaker 1: he said it was two men. Watched them go out

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Speaker 1: into the kitchen and out the kitchen door. But evidently

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Speaker 1: when you're standing in that bedroom you can't see the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think that this is what it

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Speaker 1: sounds like to me, is like a little kid trying

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Speaker 1: to be helpful. Yeah, you know, nail on the head.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a little kid who was like traumatized

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Speaker 1: quite frankly by what they saw and trying to be helpful.

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Speaker 1: And if a cop, you know, is in your face

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Speaker 1: saying okay, okay, justin what'd you see? And you go nothing,

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Speaker 1: And they go are you sure you didn't see anything?

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Speaker 1: And you go, well, no, I guess I cracked the door.

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Speaker 1: I woke up. They're like, yeah, because there's no way

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Speaker 1: you could have slept through that, Justin, You're right, you could.

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Speaker 1: You must have woken up. And then you know, and

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Speaker 1: cops often think they're being helpful or whatever with that,

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Speaker 1: they're actually pulling the story out of the lead. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: I gotta think of something now, because this happened so

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't see the video obviously, so

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, yeah, no, it's is I put

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Speaker 1: him under highly questionable as a witness to this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: That's that's kind of the point that I want to

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Speaker 1: go to. So do I Yeah, I definitely do. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad we're on the same page. Yeah, definitely. As I

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Speaker 1: mentioned Tina was missing, Justin was actually the first person

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Speaker 1: that I know of who pointed out that Tina was missing.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, the only beneficial thing he did, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I And and funny thing too is he mentioned that

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Speaker 1: the cops weren't really paying attention to Eventually they concluded

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Speaker 1: that Tina was indeed missing. It was one of the

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Speaker 1: parents got involved and listened to him and finally figured out, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a kid missing. Yeah. It's funny that the cops

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Speaker 1: after questioning Justin sent him home and he went home

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Speaker 1: about thirty maybe that morning, down to cabin twenty six,

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Speaker 1: and his mom said something to him like, you know,

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Speaker 1: how how was it or how is it or how

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Speaker 1: are they? And he said they're all dead and she's like, yeah, nad,

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Speaker 1: don't joke around like that, and he's going, no, mom,

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Speaker 1: they're all dead. The sharps are all dead. And she

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Speaker 1: finally figured out that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so maybe

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Speaker 1: that's one reason he's a little a little messed up. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't blame him for his shifting story. I blame

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Speaker 1: the situation probably. Yeah, that's tough one. So they started

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Speaker 1: looking for Tina. Yeah, that major girl hunt was undertaken

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Speaker 1: for Tina Sharp and she was not found. In April

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Speaker 1: nine four, guy named Ronald Pedrini was looking for antique

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Speaker 1: bottles and such things in the woods around Campai teen,

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Speaker 1: which is a place about twenty nine miles away from Kenny,

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Speaker 1: and found part of a human skull. So he called

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Speaker 1: the cops and then they took it in a possession

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Speaker 1: and they did a search of the immediate area and

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Speaker 1: found nothing. Oh that's not what I heard. Yeah, well, no,

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Speaker 1: that was in That was in April the About six

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Speaker 1: weeks later they got an honest phone call, but I

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Speaker 1: think I was on a thirty as somebody told them

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Speaker 1: to look more around Caine Campaig teen and they found more.

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Speaker 1: They found bones. They found it most importantly, they found

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Speaker 1: a lower job bone. Yeah, and quote other evidence pieces, right,

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Speaker 1: other evidence pieces. You have part of some blue jeans,

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Speaker 1: h you know, and stuff. I'm I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: they documented that stuff actually belonged to Tina or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you could at that point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, but but the lower job bone was key

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Speaker 1: because they could identify her through dental records. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: so it's hard to say what happened to Tina. Obviously

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Speaker 1: they took her for a reason. I don't think they

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Speaker 1: just killed her and hold her body away. But we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that in a little bit. Do we have

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Speaker 1: to two weeks in a row? Really? Come on, you guys,

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Speaker 1: you're killing me here. Well more cheerful note, you guys

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Speaker 1: want to talk about autopsy autos? Okay, su Sharp. First,

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Speaker 1: her autopsy reported considerable dried and smear blood on the

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Speaker 1: soles of her feet, which is interesting, which indicates that

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Speaker 1: she actually was on her feet, because she didn't have

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Speaker 1: wounds on her feet, but she was on her feet,

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Speaker 1: apparently walking through blood. At some point they found her

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Speaker 1: on the couch, laying down on the couch with a

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Speaker 1: blanket over here. Yeah yeah, but at some point she

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Speaker 1: had walked through the blood. Nobody really knows why. At

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Speaker 1: this point her wrists and ankles were bound by white

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Speaker 1: Did he take sorry? Did they find footprints in the blood,

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Speaker 1: like on the floor, I have not found any mention

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Speaker 1: of that. They probably they probably were bloody footprints. I

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Speaker 1: think think hard because Sheila came home and likely checked

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Speaker 1: the bat. Right, she's the one who discovered this scene.

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Speaker 1: She didn't go in the house. She opened the door

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Speaker 1: and looked in and saw everything and screamed and ran. Yeah. Yeah,

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00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: that's yeah. Yeah, But but no, I I've looked at

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Speaker 1: those pretty extensively. Unfortunately, I've looked at the crime scene

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Speaker 1: photos and there are blood smears all over, But I

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Speaker 1: didn't see footprints. So it's almost like there was blood

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Speaker 1: and you were standing in the pool of it and

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Speaker 1: then moved somewhere else. So you're not walking. If you

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Speaker 1: catch what I'm going for here, you were standing in

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Speaker 1: it and then you're not walking anymore. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't see footprints anywhere. No, I didn't

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Speaker 1: see any either, and they're not mentioned anywhere in any

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Speaker 1: of the police reports anyway. Back to her autopsy, so

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Speaker 1: she had been she was taken into the morgue. By

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Speaker 1: the way, are all still bound up and everything. So

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Speaker 1: there's a pretty in depth description in the optopsy report

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Speaker 1: of the way she was all at her wounds and

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Speaker 1: how she was bound up. They used electrical extension cords

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Speaker 1: to tie her up in addition to the tape. There

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Speaker 1: was one around her wrists and then and then the

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Speaker 1: second one was heavier. It was tied to her wrist

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Speaker 1: and then it went down to her ankles and tied

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Speaker 1: her ankles together. So she was she was kind of

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Speaker 1: hog tied, and she was all yeah, but were not

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Speaker 1: hog tied with her hands behind her hands were in

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Speaker 1: front of her. Hog Tight's wrong way, but it was

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Speaker 1: ankles and connected. She was well, yeah, And and of

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Speaker 1: course we've already talked about the gag which was quote

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Speaker 1: embedded deeply in the mouth unquote quoting to the autop scene.

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Speaker 1: There was evidence around her head and face of a

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Speaker 1: lot of blunt force trauma, which is of course the hammer.

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Speaker 1: This was done with a hammer, which is found its

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Speaker 1: crime scene. There are lots of lacerations also stab wounds

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Speaker 1: in the chest and abdomen and one in the neck.

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Speaker 1: So the cause of death was listed for her blunt

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Speaker 1: force trauma and stabbing. So in other words, it's not

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Speaker 1: quite clear she died of brain injuries first or being

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Speaker 1: stabbed in the chest. And you know, so so both

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Speaker 1: you know, they just flipped the coin. Dana Wingate, on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, he'd been beaten about the head, but

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Speaker 1: he was not stabbed at all. He was strangled to death.

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Speaker 1: His legs were also bound with his electrical cord, but

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Speaker 1: his wrists were bound with tape only, which indicates that

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Speaker 1: I guess they run out of extension cords. I think. So. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: head and face showed blunt force trauma, but again not stabbed.

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Speaker 1: And and it appears that he was he was He

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Speaker 1: might have been killed by the blows to the head,

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Speaker 1: but they, whoever it was, laid him on his back

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Speaker 1: and strangle him for good measure. So before we get

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Speaker 1: onto the next one, I know we've talked about it

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Speaker 1: a couple of times. Now in this description as the

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Speaker 1: medical tape, there was a lot of medical tape used

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Speaker 1: to bind these people enough that it was more than

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Speaker 1: one role. And they weren't the same kind. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they were different widths. They had a good supply of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the weird thing is I can understand. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've all got medical tape in the medicine cabinet, the

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Speaker 1: little silly spool that you get when you buy gauze

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But this was a lot of medical tape.

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Speaker 1: When you think a couple of loops around ankles and

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Speaker 1: then wrists and through multiple people. I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: there was so much medical tape. That's something I don't

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Speaker 1: I haven't figured out either, somebody. I mean, it's you

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Speaker 1: know that probably what they should have done was searched

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Speaker 1: every house and gone to everybody's medical medical supplies and

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Speaker 1: whoever is missing all their tape, Hey, you know, you're

423
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: the killer. Joe always has a really simple explanation, Well,

424
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: all you have to do is do this, and then hey,

425
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: they're the killer. Yeah. Yeah. It appears that most, if

426
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: not all, the weapons and equipment were found on scene,

427
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: like for example, the you know, the hammer I believe

428
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: was found there, and then the state knife was easily

429
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: found in the kitchen. Obviously, if you're going to tie

430
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: people up and you're planet ahead and you're bringing your supplies,

431
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna bring rope and electrical cords. So that was

432
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: medical tape. Yeah, the medical tape is something that the

433
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: killer might have brought with, might been there, like I

434
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: have a first aid kit in my car. Yeah, true. Yeah. Well,

435
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: and the thing about the medical tape is, I mean

436
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: we we started to talk about this earlier, is that

437
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: the medical tape there was no blood underneath it, which

438
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: means these people were all taped up and then killed

439
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: and then killed. Yeah, same thing with the What's harder

440
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: to tell with electrical cord, but the tape made a

441
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: very clear band when removed, there was nothing under it.

442
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: So they were taped up before they were killed. In fairness,

443
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: you would do that. You wouldn't. Why would you tape

444
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: a dead body up to stage a scene? Yeah, I

445
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: guess there's people do that, people stage scenes, But I'm

446
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: just saying it's it wasn't stage at all. It was,

447
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: but it was weird that they taped and then tied them.

448
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what that was about, if that was

449
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: just for good measure or what it maybe if this

450
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: if this person who did this, or person's it may

451
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: be that medical tape was just something to keep in

452
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: good supply because you actually planned on doing something like this.

453
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: So and I'll see you're driving around your car and

454
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: you pick up a couple of hitchhikers. You decide, you know,

455
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna commit a little multiple murderaction tonight, and so

456
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: you just reached out to the seat where you got

457
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: your stash of this stuff that you use for tying

458
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: people up. And maybe that wasn't well ahead. Sorry, the

459
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: extension chords, it seems like they were only used to

460
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: do the hot what we're calling hog tying, hog tying

461
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: but whatever they like, tying from the arms to the

462
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: legs to the wrist. Right, Well, that was one John

463
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: wasn't tied like that too. The boys were tied together.

464
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: They were, yeah, they had they had they had tape

465
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: around their wrists and but and they also and they

466
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: were they had tape around their their legs too. And

467
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: then they had one long extension cord was tied around

468
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: Dana's legs and then it went over to the other

469
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: half of it was used to tie John. And the

470
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: thing about that is that when I kept reading, when

471
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: I kept reading the description, I thought that they were

472
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: found feet to feed, but no, they were laying parallel

473
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: to each other. It was just a long enough extension. Okay,

474
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's weird to me. I was going to say,

475
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: it would make sense that you would have to improvise

476
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: or use an extension cord if you were going to

477
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: try and type a length like that, because you couldn't

478
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: use tape necessarily. But I don't know why, I've never

479
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: seen anything about this. But I also wonder if again, okay,

480
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: somebody used what they found on site electrical cords. Sue

481
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: had five kids that lived in a rural area. Kids

482
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: screw around and they get hurt, so I wonder if

483
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: that was something she had in her medical kits, so

484
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: to speak. And again, it was just a something of convenience,

485
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: a couple of roles. Maybe you know, you get one

486
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: and you lose it, you misplace it, you gotta go

487
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: get another one because and then find the first one. Yeah,

488
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: that's and also there would there would be a plentiful

489
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: supply of electric of extension chords in this place because

490
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: it's an old cabin, there's probably no more than one

491
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: electrical outlet per room, so there's gonna be lots of

492
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: extension cords. Yeah, no, there was. Well, one of the

493
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: extension chords was from Sue and Tina's room, one was

494
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: from the living room. So yeah, they pulled them from

495
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: multiple rooms. Yeah. Quickly about John Sharp, there's not much

496
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: more to be said about him, is off tops. He

497
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: indicated again that he was killed by the severing of

498
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: his crodd ory artery, but he again had a lot

499
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: of blunt force trauma. The really vicious crime, I mean

500
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: bashing somebody in the head in the face with a

501
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: hammer and then stabbing him with a knife. Yeah, pretty

502
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 1: appalling crime. Okay, the wall, Oh yeah, one of the things,

503
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: the walls have been apparently stabbed. Somebody had like stabbed

504
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: the walls. Yeah, it's um. When you were a kid,

505
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: did you ever try to throw a knife into a tree.

506
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's it seemed like that, like there was

507
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: just gazillions of little stab martin several walls, as if

508
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: somebody was trying to throw a knife into a wall

509
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: and get it to stick. That odd, but that gives

510
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: it does make you wonder if perhaps they were looking

511
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: for something like they were looking for a false compartment

512
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: behind the wall. That's true. Oh yeah, oh that Yeah,

513
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: you're using it as kind of a sound sounding board. Yeah.

514
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: One theory that has been has been put forth. This

515
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: is apparently what somebody somewhere in the town. So there's

516
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: a lot of statements that are out there in the

517
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: record is being made by whom to whom the record

518
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: is not always clear. It's a little town full of

519
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: tons and tons of rumors. Yeah, lots of One rumor

520
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: was that it was a drug deal gone bad and

521
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: then a couple of people were just in the wrong

522
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time. Presumably that's John and Dana,

523
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, I I

524
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: don't agree with the drug deal gone bad. But is

525
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: that in your I'm assuming that's in the theory section

526
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: or should we talk about that? Uh, now we can

527
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: talk about it now. It's not really in my in

528
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: the theory section, because the thing about it is is

529
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: there's no evidence. Like one of the suspects, there was

530
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: some some talk, some evidence that he actually sold the

531
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: hash and then supplemented his income making selling hash, and

532
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: but there's no evidence of the kind of high value

533
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: drug smuggling in the town that would that would actually

534
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: motivate you to immerse somebody. Well, coke moved through that

535
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: town evidently at that time. Ye, cocaine was a trade,

536
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: but in quantities sufficient to cause somebody to get murdered.

537
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: And the thing is, Sue was clean. There was no

538
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: drugs inner system when they did the autopsy. She didn't drink,

539
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: she didn't do drugs, as far as I could tell I.

540
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: I had a hard time tracking down her background. Maybe

541
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: you found better information than I did, But from everything

542
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: that I found, she was a straight arrow. Yeah, I

543
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: think so. I don't know why she would have been

544
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: involved in anything like that. That doesn't make any sense

545
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: in fairness, though straight arrows make the best dealers, that's true. Well,

546
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: but she also and maybe this is in your theory section,

547
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: she had a couple of skiezy boyfriends. Yeah, and that's

548
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: not Yeah, it's not that there's a section either. But

549
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: but you're right. I mean, actually a straight arrow would would,

550
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 1: if nothing else, make for a good courier, good you know,

551
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: or a good place to stash your stuff. That's that's

552
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: why I was so good in the drug trade, I

553
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: mean would make Yeah, do you want to talk about

554
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: the skull before we move on the soft tissue bit

555
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: soft tissue? Yeah, I feel like that's really interesting and compelling. Yeah,

556
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: well we should talk about that. Yeah, back to Tina's

557
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: skull um. It was found three years almost three years today.

558
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: It was like three years and ten days I think

559
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: three years in eleven days after afterwards, and it wasn't

560
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: particularly weathered, which indicated it hadn't been in that spot

561
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: probably for the whole three years. And it actually still

562
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: had some soft tissue in it. It did. Yeah, I

563
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: still had some some some brain matter in there and stuff,

564
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: which would indicate because if it had been if it's

565
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: three years, the bugs and everything would have cleaned that out.

566
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: So if it's been outdoors even for three years in

567
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: that area, now that that conflicts with the stuff that

568
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: I've seen from the corner corner who examined it, because

569
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: he said it was clean. There was no but there

570
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: was no organic material left on it. It was stained

571
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: on one side from the dirt but slightly bleached on

572
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: the other, meaning it sat in the same spot that

573
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: wasn't a sunny spot but did get sun for at

574
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: least a couple of years. Okay, so that's I was.

575
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: That was then. Unfortunately I apologize to our listeners. Well, no,

576
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, that's what he said, but I

577
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: don't know if his recollection is right because it was

578
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: an interview done with him years later. But but this

579
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: is the hard part is that these always there's so

580
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: many interpretations. Yea, it is easy. Yeah, I'm not sure

581
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: exactly why her body he was put there. I don't

582
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: think she was murdered immediately, but you know I don't either. Yeah,

583
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: it's it's horrified to think about. But I think she

584
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: might have lived for quite a while after you can

585
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: get napped. Oh yeah, I don't agree with how. I

586
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: think she lived a day or two, but have just

587
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: been a day or two. It could have been longer.

588
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, we'll talk about that a little

589
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: bit later. But yeah, A list a few suspects here.

590
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: Martin Ray Smart, also known as Marty Smart. Marty Smart.

591
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've never I never really paid attention to

592
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: the fact that it's Marty Smart. Yeah, Marty, it makes

593
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: you want to say, mighty smart. Well, it makes me

594
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: think of that what was that silly Detective Show in

595
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: the sixties. Get that's all I was gonna say. It

596
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: reminds me of ax Man, right what a bit like

597
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Joe Wordan, go Ward Snowart and Robert and Bobbert's Smartest

598
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: and a man. Yeah, we've watched it. It's fine, Okay,

599
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: So Marty Smart, Mrighty Smart. Uh. Yeah. I lived in

600
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: Cabin twenty six. He was not a model citizen. Supposedly,

601
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: Rumors rumored in the seventies he was living in Phoenix

602
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: at that time and tried to murder his brother and

603
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: expressed the desire to blow up his parents house. Yeah,

604
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: apparently he went off to look for explosives but changed

605
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: his mind. So good, that's lucky for the parents. Huh

606
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: he uh. Maryland said that at some point in nineteen Sorry,

607
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: who's Maryland? Oh? Yeah, that was his wife, Marylyn. I'm

608
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: sorry didn't mention that. Yeah, he married Maryland I think

609
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: in seventy nine, Maryland being Justin's mom. Yeah, Justin's mom,

610
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: Justin's was it Justin Smart? Was his name Justin Easton?

611
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: I think he kept Stad's name. Yeah, alright, sorry, just yeah,

612
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: because that was one of my hard parts. But this

613
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: is names flip all over the place, and so, yeah,

614
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: they're not always consistent or correct on the websites invite

615
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: and and like, all these people in this town are named,

616
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: and this person was drove over to his place and

617
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: saw him do that, and there's all these different names,

618
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: and it's just it's hard to keep tracking the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah,

619
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: but I could make info graphics about just about every

620
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: one of these stories. Yeah, I'm not going to, though,

621
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: it's not worth the effort. But Mary, but Maryland said

622
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: that he actually tried to run run her and the

623
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: kids over in nine eight with a car. Yeah. I

624
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: had apparently had a real anger problem. Happy marriage, Yeah,

625
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: I know, I know. He was Marty smart, as was

626
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: the guy that was selling hash. One person, one person

627
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: in town reports reportedly said he saw a brick of

628
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: hash that looked like a wait, about a pound in

629
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: Marty's house. Oh yeah, that's a lot of hash that

630
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: last me a week or two. And yeah, in March

631
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: nine one, he went to the Reno Veterans Administration Hospital

632
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: to check into the psych ward because he was apparently

633
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: having some psych problems. That evidently was at the request

634
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: of his wife. Yeah, she coerced him or of his

635
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: to talk him in to go in and get and

636
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: checked in for help because he had relationship issues. Yeah

637
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: you management. Yeah, that's one of the things he discussed

638
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: with the therapist. He's having marriage problems. Uh, she was

639
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: threatening to divorce him. And he had anger problems. Oh yeah.

640
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: There Another indication he had anger problems is at one

641
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: point he threatened to break Johnny Sharp's hands, the ten

642
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: year old Johnny Sharp, the fifteen year old Sharp. Yeah

643
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: that's not done much better really, Yeah. Yeah, his wife

644
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: said Maryland said that he didn't like teenagers period. He

645
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: thought they were all punks, and he really didn't like yeah,

646
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: all of them. Yeah, and didn't like women particularly either.

647
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: I thought they were all slots and horrors. So yeah,

648
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: he had serious issues. Yeah. Yeah. He later claimed to

649
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: a therapist that he thought he had PTSD from his

650
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: time in Vietnam. It turns out he had really soft

651
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: duty in Vietnam. He was he was a cook, and

652
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: he was he was far far away from the war zone,

653
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: and so he probably had If you want to avoid

654
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: getting shot, the best possible place to be in Vietnam,

655
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: you're with the U. S. Military. His therapist, this therapist

656
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: really shot that down. Yeah, rightfully. So I can I

657
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: give you my impression of Marty or Martin depending on

658
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: which thing you read. I've known a lot of guys

659
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: like him. You come from a because they come from

660
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: a small town where a bunch of guys went to

661
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: Vietnam and they came back and it's a rural community

662
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: and they didn't get the help they needed. And they

663
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: have a lot of macho bravado about them because that's

664
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: their defense mechanism. And some and they'd says I'm gonna

665
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: beat the crap out of you or I'm gonna kill you,

666
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: and some of it was just a lot of it

667
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: was talk from a lot of it, but there were

668
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: somewhere you went, oh, wait, that guy is actually kind

669
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: of serious in a little scary and aren't smart. He

670
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: he strikes me is a little leaning towards the serious

671
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: scary side than the full of hot air side. Yeah. Possibly,

672
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: he did that have a history of violence well, and

673
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: the things that he said those are the very indicative

674
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: of things that I've heard before. And it just but

675
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: the things that he's done that his actions or why,

676
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, part of that wasn't an actually an

677
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: act he was had a few scrooge loops. Yeah, that

678
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: sounds like. But yeah, this thing about small towns is

679
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: that the nutcases and the psychos, you really can't avoid

680
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: running into him if you live in a big city.

681
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: They're kind of self seggregating that they're living off in

682
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: the port, in the port part of town, and you

683
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: hopefully or not, and then well, it's it's also terrible

684
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: because the cycle for them is so much smaller and tighter.

685
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: Think about it. You live in a metro area and

686
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: you've got some issues, and you run into somebody and

687
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: they anger you, and you think about it, but you

688
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: don't see that person for six months, so by the

689
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: time you see them, all that pent up whatever, it

690
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: is just kind of dissipated. Whereas if you run into

691
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: somebody and you live in a small town and they've

692
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: done something to anger you, and it's starting to cycle up,

693
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: and then you see them three days later, cycles up more,

694
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: four days later, two days later, it's like just these

695
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: these these these situations or pressure cookers for a personality

696
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, small towns aren't all just not all

697
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: milk and honey, not rainbows and small towns. Interestingly enough,

698
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: they vary in their culture. Like I grew up, I

699
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: spent most of my young Ringer gears in a small town.

700
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: And uh, I think it's fair to say there was

701
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: another town about seven miles away that culturally was significantly

702
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: different from ours. And and uh, it really is true.

703
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: They're not It's not all Mayberry or anything like some

704
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: of them are. Some of them are really nice places,

705
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: full of nice people, you know, and some of them

706
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: are full jerks. Yeah, people with problems. Yeah. Can we

707
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: start talking about the mystery here? Yeah? No, I'm totally

708
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: off here. Yeah, we we really kind of delve into

709
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: that a little bit too much. Also, I can't commiserate.

710
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's true. Okay, So back to the vetting.

711
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: So he's in the pside ward. His his claim for

712
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: ps PTSD has been kind of rebooked. Yeah, And eventually

713
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: he got he checked out and went back to Ketty

714
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: and he brought a friend that he had met in

715
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: the VA hospital, another guy with metal metal issues. Good idea. Yeah,

716
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: I'll talk about this guy a little bit later. Marty.

717
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: We're still talking about Marty being a suspect. Apparently on

718
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: somebody recalled him saying on April four or the eleventh,

719
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: that somebody knew it was a Saturday, but I couldn't

720
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: remember specifically what date it was. Marty had told him

721
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: that if he Marty didn't get things straightened out, he

722
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: might kill somebody. And was that I could never clue

723
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: in was that straightened out with his wife or just

724
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: straightened out in general, or do you know that's that's

725
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: it's very vague. It's very vague. Yeh. Marty of course

726
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: was a suspect. I think one of the things that

727
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: that one of the things that sort of got the

728
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: police interested in him is that his wife the day

729
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: of April twelfth, when the bodies were discovered, his wife

730
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: moved out well and her son was one of the

731
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: surviving boys as well, and it would explain why his

732
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: story changed. Yeah, like if he opened the door and

733
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: saw his stepdad like killing a bunch of people, Yeah,

734
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: you might say, yeah, I saw something, and they'd say, okay, son,

735
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: what'd you see and you'd go, uh, nothing, I don't

736
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: want to get a whooping nothing nothing. He might kill

737
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: me too. Nothing could have been that, although it's um

738
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, if if Marty was, if Marty Smart was

739
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: as abusive as some people say it was towards Maryland

740
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: and possibly kids also, wouldn't that be a grand opportunity

741
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, yeah, it was my stepdad murdering those people,

742
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: and so he gets carted off, He gets carted off

743
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: to prison, and you can go find a better step dad. Yeah,

744
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: but I guess there's that fear, there's the irrational fear.

745
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah that twelve, Yeah, that's yeah. Among us as adults,

746
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: that's a very easy logical thing to say, Hey, I

747
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: can get rid of this jerk. But as a kid,

748
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: you don't know, because you know, you just don't have

749
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: the life experience and your emotions are all erratic and weird.

750
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: That's an easy way to think. But that's not the

751
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: way that the kids at that age thing. Probably not.

752
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: But and I have no idea if he had justin

753
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: witnessed anything or not. I don't think he did. I

754
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: don't know. I kind of doubt it, but yeah, we

755
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: talked about it. Marty, of course was a suspect again

756
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: he left two doors down history of violence. He was

757
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: known to not like Sue because he believed that Sue

758
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: was trying was trying to persuade Maryland to leave him.

759
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: She probably was, because yeah, he was a bit of

760
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: a jerk. So yeah, and he uh, he at one

761
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: point in his sessions with the psychotherapist did talk about

762
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: this and talk about this quote unquote bitch who was

763
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: trying to turn his wife against him, and that undoubtedly

764
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: that was probably Sue. He had a motive, not not

765
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: really much of a motive. I don't I don't think

766
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: that's enough of a motive for any rational person to

767
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: murder four people. He may not have been rational, doesn't

768
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: have to be rational. Yeah, So he was questioned and everything,

769
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: and he took a polygraph test which he passed. But

770
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: then a month after the murders, this didn't come to

771
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: light until years later. Yeah, and for for a reason.

772
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: But the month after the murders, he talked to his

773
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: therapist to get it to the v A and he

774
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: said that he had killed Sue Sharp and he said

775
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: he did he did it because Sue was trying to

776
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: talk Maryland into leaving him. Wait, when when did he

777
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: talk to the therapist. That would have been in nine one. Oh,

778
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: I thought it was later on than that. Now it

779
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: was in and then uh, unless, unless of course the

780
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: source where I got this again confused about the timeline.

781
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: There are so many timelines out there and so many,

782
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: so many different statements by various people. The therapist, of

783
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: course couldn't reveal this. They're there, they can't. But after

784
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: Marty died, he died in the year two thousand, the

785
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: therapists apparently waited ten years. And maybe that's no. I

786
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: think the therapist did contact the police, and because they're

787
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: required by law too to give that information. You know,

788
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: client confidentiality only goes so far. Murder doesn't cover murder.

789
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: But the cops got the information and then did nothing

790
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: with it, So that was a little bit of incompetence

791
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: there or otherwise, who knows. Apparently the therapist contacted them

792
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: again some years later after Marty died and brought the

793
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: issue up again, and they reopened the investigation, or at

794
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: least took a look at it. But again the school case.

795
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 1: By this time, it's two thousand and ten. I think

796
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: when that when that when he took it up with

797
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: them again. Well, and he was already dead at that point, Yeah,

798
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: he was dead ten years. Uh. And interestingly, though he

799
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: Marty said nothing about the other murders. He didn't say

800
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 1: anything about that. He just said he killed Sue. Yeah, interesting. Yeah,

801
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: very that doesn't make sense. It really doesn't, because that's

802
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: what that would mean is he goes over there and

803
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: he kills Sue and then and leaves her corpse on

804
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: the Lisa corpse on the on the couch with a

805
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: blanket over it, and then maybe the other two come

806
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,959
Speaker 1: the two boys come home with the psycho, the psycho killer,

807
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: who's giving them a ride, and then he and then

808
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: the psycho killer murders them. This is the weirdest bad

809
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: look scenario. Would that be an amazing coincidence? Alternately, Alternately, she,

810
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: I mean, she doesn't seem the type, but she, for

811
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: whatever reason, kills the boys and then herself to death.

812
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 1: Then Marty comes over for whatever reason, and because he's

813
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: rolled up or whatever, Well he was drunk that night, right,

814
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: so it's blames her blood on her feet, right, And

815
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: then he sees what happened and was already angry at

816
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 1: her and kills her in a similar manner and ties

817
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: her up and leaves her on the couch. And I

818
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: don't know what happens to Tina, she even less, I know,

819
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I mean, she's hit sacking in Highway seventy

820
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: and she gets picked up by Mr Secho Killer. There

821
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: you go. No, what about so what about the friend?

822
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: The friend? Oh yeah, let's talk about her friends, his

823
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: friend or his friend. I mean, yeah, yeah, Marty's friend.

824
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: And he brought back from the second ward. Uh. This

825
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: guy's name full name was Severing, John Balbadee. Didn't we

826
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: have somebody who was named Severing in a case before?

827
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: Wasn't it in the toy and be tiles se? Yeah? Okay,

828
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: that name really sounds familiars. Yeah, I can't believe that

829
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: the first time you'd ever heard Severneah. Oh yeah, I

830
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: had a friend growing up name Severn. So name for me? Sorry,

831
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I thought that was all in

832
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: the name. Rest now Bobade uh one by the nickname

833
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: of bowl. Alright, that's what I said, Boada, it's balbade

834
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: So I'm still trying to learn how to pronounce that

835
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: name babade. But Bo was staying with the Smart. He

836
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 1: came back from Reno Via and stayed with the Smart,

837
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: sleeping on the couch. Reportedly, he liked to get up

838
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: at night and wander around outside. It's a little lanky,

839
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: but maybe he had insomnia. Yeah. He was also in

840
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: psychiatric therapy, just like Marty was met Sue Sharp on

841
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: April eighth, three days before the murders, and reportedly the

842
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: next day said he'd like to get to know we're better. Yeah.

843
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: She was a pretty lady and she was probably nice

844
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: to him, Yeah, could have been. And then probably the

845
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: dating prospects in that town were not that huge. Yeah.

846
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: On the night of April eleven, Marty Beau and Maryland

847
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: got dressed up and then they were they put on

848
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: suits and all kinds of nice clothes and stuff, and

849
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: they went to the back door bar and ketty, which

850
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: was they walked to. Yeah, they walked to it. It's

851
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: a tiny little town. Yeah. And that reportedly they left

852
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: about nine thirty and they stopped. According to some accounts,

853
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: they stopped by Sue Sharp's house to ask if she

854
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: wanted to tag along, and she said she wasn't interested.

855
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: That are you look at them? And how many kids

856
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: I have here? Yeah, and they were all like that

857
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 1: just against the bad you know, it was the eighties. Yeah, Yeah,

858
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: And uh so she had four kids there and two

859
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: more that were out hitchacking or something or still in

860
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: Quincy at the time, so she just didn't want to go,

861
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: and apparently she didn't drink anyway, so you know what

862
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: you wanted, but makes sense to turn down the offer. Yeah. Uh,

863
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: So they hung out at the back door bar and

864
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: then about twelve thirty or so that they changed the

865
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: music in the bar. Yeah, they changed the type of

866
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: music they were playing in Bow got really angry about

867
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: it because he liked country and they were playing rock

868
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: and roll. Uh, that's what gets me riled up every time. Yeah,

869
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: I'm ready, I'm ready to kill people over stuff like that.

870
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: They went back to Cabin twenty six and Marylyn went

871
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: to bed. At this point, Marty wanted to go back

872
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,959
Speaker 1: to the bar, but Bo was still really furious about

873
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: the music change. They even called the bar. Marty caught

874
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: the car with the bar and complained about it to

875
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: the bar attender. And all sense tells you the size

876
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: of the town when you can call the bar and

877
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: complain about the music, and and and Bo was like,

878
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: Marty wants to go, but Bo was so mad he

879
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: just has to calm down for a while. So really yeah, yeah,

880
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: But eventually they did go back to the bar, then

881
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: return at some unknown time because Marilyn was asleep when

882
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: she woke up, Marty was in bed with her and

883
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: but was asleep in the couch. Who knows what they

884
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: were up to or wet when they came back. Well,

885
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: they did go to the bar. Evidently they were there

886
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,240
Speaker 1: at last call. Yeah, Marty was wearing a green suit

887
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: for for heading the bar, but the next day the

888
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: suit was gone, and Marilynd said she never saw it again,

889
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: which is suspicious. But on the other hand, she moved

890
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: out of that place on April twelve, So so I

891
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: woke up the morning of April that the green suit

892
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: was not there. I never saw it again. Well, yeah,

893
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: she but when she moved out, she said she was

894
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: afraid of what Marty might do to her and the kids.

895
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: But again, that doesn't necessarily indicate that Marty was a murderer,

896
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 1: and she was afraid of getting murdered, And she just

897
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: might have realized I'm in a not good situation and

898
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: oh my god, my neighbor just got brutally murdered. I

899
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: should probably make a life change. Yeah, I know, I know, seriously,

900
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: And I told you as I told you before you

901
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: got justin arrived home from Cavin twenty run eight thirty

902
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: am and told her that everybody was dead at the

903
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: same time that day, about that same time, a guy

904
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: named Jim Meeks went over to Marty Smarts house and

905
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: saw that he was burning yard debris in the yard

906
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: and said that he believed he saw a pair of

907
00:49:55,160 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: shoes in the middle of the pile of burning debris. So, yeah,

908
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I'm not sure about this because

909
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is my understanding of it

910
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: is when they went back to the house and before

911
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: they return to the bar, they changed their clothes. I

912
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: mean you've read that in some accounts, right, I think

913
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 1: I have. Yeah, there's some. Yeah, there were so many

914
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: papers the one website that I think all three of

915
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: us drew on pretty heavily for like the reports and

916
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: the papers, because it was a plathora of information there was,

917
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: so it was actually information overloads. So it's made it

918
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: kind of hard to pull details. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,

919
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 1: you know, so some some some say they change your clothes.

920
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: Of course, on the other hand, if you're all gussie up,

921
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: but we're your best clothes, you're gonna want to change. Well,

922
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: if to commit a murder, yeah, no, I mean if

923
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: you you know, you came home, So this is what

924
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: happens for me. I don't know about you guys, but

925
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: you get all dressed up and you go out and

926
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, this is fun, and you go home

927
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: and you're like, I wish I was wearing jeans right now. Yeah,

928
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: jeans and you know, sweatshirt on and oh let's yeah, sure,

929
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: let's go back out to the bar. Yeah, okay, yeah,

930
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: no problem. That happened to me every time I wear

931
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: my best dress. I know, you know, but no, I

932
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: I can see that, you know, it's you're not You

933
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: probably get dressed up because Maryland was like, wouldn't it

934
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: be fun if we all got dressed up? And this

935
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: is not a place where guys typically wear a suit. Yeah,

936
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: so it seems unlikely that Marty and Beau would be like,

937
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: you know, want to be really fun and if we

938
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: put on our suits. Yeah, I could just see a

939
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: guy in a collared shirt, in a suit or in

940
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: a tie for a couple of hours, having a couple

941
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: of drinks, and the first thing you want to do

942
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: is get out of that. Absolutely. Yeah. And actually, probably

943
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: Bou wanted to be all dressed up because he was

944
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: probably hoping to find him a woman in the bar

945
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: and have to spending a few hours in a bar.

946
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: He realizes that it's his hopes of actually finding somebody

947
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: in the bar were pretty much and he's super angry. Yeah,

948
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: he's super angry. So why I keep wearing the suit,

949
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 1: you know, when there's no women in the bar anyway,

950
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: So they probably changed. Don't use up your good juju. No,

951
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: absolutely not. Supposedly, Maryland told Jim Meeks later in that day,

952
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: that's April twelve, that she's seen a bloody hammer in

953
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: the basement of Cabin twenty six. Wasn't the hammer found

954
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: at the scene. Yeah it was. It's clearly visible in

955
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: one of the crime scene photographs. Ye Oh no, it

956
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: sounds like a disgruntled next wife. Although I guess, well,

957
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I gotta tell you, I I have never

958
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: seen that many cabins in the woods that have basements, actually,

959
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 1: so that's that kind of makes me wonder right there. Yeah, well,

960
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: I guess my argument pro her having seen that is

961
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: it's I don't know that you would be able to

962
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: tell if it was only one hammer. It could have

963
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: been more than one hammer too, you know, if it

964
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: were two guys, two guys to hammers to hammers well

965
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: didn't also tell the cops, oh, by the way, my

966
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 1: hammer went missing. Yeah, they made he made a lot

967
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: of interesting statements. There was one they called in the

968
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: Department of Justice and the DJ investigators had a little

969
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: interview with him, and he made a couple of other

970
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: sort of semi incriminating stage. Yeah, he's said some weird stuff. Yeah. Yeah,

971
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: Like it was like like and talking about his stepson's

972
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,959
Speaker 1: possibly observing the crime, he said something in the order

973
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 1: of it's possible, that it's possible, and I just didn't

974
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: notice him. Well, it's just like wow, really, that's the

975
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 1: kind of thing that they should have kind of maybe

976
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: zeroed in on and kind of hammered away at. And

977
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: they really it was kind of a lackluster investigating. Yeah,

978
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: there were there were so many things that were botched.

979
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 1: There was so there was Johnny and then what was

980
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: the other boy that was in No, in the no,

981
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: the boys that were in the room that survived. There

982
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: was Justin and also Ricky and Greg. Yeah, and I

983
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: can't remember which one of him was being interviewed by

984
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice, but you can hear if you

985
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: listen to the tape. It's the guy saying you know,

986
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: the time and the date and his name and interviewing

987
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: subjects so and so, and puts the mic over to

988
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: the kid to get a mic test to make sure

989
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: everything's working. And then the rest of the tape is

990
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: blankly the thing just shut off or just stopped recording,

991
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: and they they like did the test to make sure

992
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: it work, but didn't have the aptitude to go, oh,

993
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: that's funny. The little lights on it stopped moving. Oh well,

994
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: we'll keep going this Actually, in fairness to them, we've

995
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: actually committed the same mistake. Life was at steak. Yeah, fairness,

996
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: nobody's life was at stake in not either. The lives

997
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: had been already good. Joe's life was kind of at

998
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: steak because I was just so done with that story. Yeah,

999
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: that was that was not a great anyway back to

1000
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 1: this botched investigated investigation. Well, just another word about the hammer.

1001
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: There might have been two hammers. He might have taken

1002
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: his bloody hammer home with them, but wouldn't have washed

1003
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: it off. But but there was all of the tools. Okay,

1004
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: so it was a hammer and a knife, and a

1005
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: steak knife and and a butcher knife, and they had

1006
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: all been wiped down at the scene of the crime.

1007
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: They weren't covered in gads of blood. Okay, Well, if

1008
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: you took the time to wipe down the tools of

1009
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: the murder and leave them at the murder scene, why

1010
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: in the hell would you take a bloody one home? No? No, no,

1011
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: And you want to if you possibly can, you want

1012
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: to leave the murder weapons the scene. Yeah, Yeah, that

1013
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: that that that whole There was a bloody hammer in

1014
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: the basement. Thing That doesn't jie with what was at

1015
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: the scene of the nonsense. And I don't know, I

1016
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: don't know if if Marilyn was lying, more likely Jim

1017
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: Meeks was lying, or maybe somebody just made this stuff

1018
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: up and stuck into the record at some point. Let's

1019
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: talking about theories for a little bit. Yeah, God, are

1020
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: we not there yet? Yeah, And there's a there's a

1021
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: lot more if you guys want to do more research,

1022
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: follow some of the links. Uh, there's a lot of

1023
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: stuff out there. Just to make this not a five

1024
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: hour episode, I've omitted lots of stuff. And also because

1025
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: some of its conflicting and and it's fragmentary, so and so,

1026
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Bob C said this, and yeah,

1027
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: a lot of it is recounting five ten twenty thirty

1028
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: years later, and those are bound to conflict from statement

1029
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: one to statement five. A person is going to change

1030
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: it without intending to over time. Absolutely, the memories a

1031
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: tricky thing. Okay, back to our series Sue number one.

1032
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: Sue was the target of the attack that she was

1033
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: the one who wanted to kill some people of theorist.

1034
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: She was bound and gagged and then forced to watch

1035
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: as John and Data were murdered and Tina was tied

1036
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: up production. So us whoever did this really hated Sue. Yeah,

1037
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 1: if this is what happened, then no doubt they explained

1038
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: in detail or he explained it do tell what he

1039
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: was going to be doing with Tina just to make

1040
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: her predicament that that much more horrible before murdering her.

1041
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 1: But I don't understand why he or they didn't haul

1042
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: the other two children out of the back bedroom and

1043
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: kill them. They were strangers there. You know, you wouldn't

1044
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: know that those kids were back there. That's possible if

1045
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: you think you to have a look around, but maybe

1046
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: not well, but you could say, is there anybody else home? No,

1047
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,479
Speaker 1: all my kids are sleeping at the neighbor's house. As

1048
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: a preventative statement to protect your children. Yeah, yeah, I

1049
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: mean I but you know, if Sue was a target

1050
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: of the attack, the only person intended seemed to have

1051
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: a grudge against her was Marty, right, Marty Smart, who

1052
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,479
Speaker 1: would have known how many kids she had, who would

1053
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: have known that his stepson is in the other room.

1054
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: He would have known that. This is one of the

1055
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: reasons I have strong doubts. Even though everybody else thinks

1056
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 1: Marty Smart did this, I have strong doubts that he did.

1057
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I really don't, because I really do think

1058
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: I have to have doubts. Well, just because he had

1059
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: a criminal history and a history of violence, but never

1060
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: anything this savage, never anything that savage, and he would

1061
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: have done it. If he wanted to kill Sue, he

1062
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: would have found a way to maybe have doctor tick

1063
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: her out in the woods and kill her out there.

1064
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: He wouldn't do it with the steps on in the

1065
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: next room. Do you think, m again, this assumes I mean,

1066
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: this assumes he was, like you know, it assumes a

1067
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: lot of that. But it also you know, just because

1068
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: Sue was the target, I guess Sue was the target

1069
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: of the attack, assumes that somebody knew who she was, Right, Okay,

1070
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: all right, never mind, you say it assumes that somebody

1071
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: that that person knows Sue, but she intended target that

1072
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: they have to know who she is. Yeah, well that's

1073
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: there's another possibility and somebody that didn't know Sue, but

1074
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: it was just a psychopathic jerk, So we'll get to that.

1075
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: That's that's you know, somebody somebody gave the boys a

1076
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: ride home and saw Sue and was like, oh yeah,

1077
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: I would like some of that, thank you. And then

1078
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: or more likely, I think saw Tina and hey, I

1079
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: want some of that. I know, I know it's terrible,

1080
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: but she was the one that was abducted. Remember, no,

1081
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: I don't either. But let's get on to another theater theory,

1082
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: which is Tina was the reason for the attack and

1083
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: everybody else was collateral damage. So some people have said

1084
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: that Bo really liked young girls. So say, if it

1085
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: was Bo, you know, he goes over there and well,

1086
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: he's got it. He's got to deal with the mother,

1087
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: kill her, and then abducted the girl, and then the

1088
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: other two show up. That the two boys show up,

1089
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: and so he's got to whack them. Walk in on,

1090
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: they walk in on. He's got to whack them too.

1091
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: I have you also heard about the allegations of the

1092
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: involvement between Marty and Tina. Yeah, well I heard something

1093
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: about that was possibly some sort of a relationship there,

1094
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: but there there. I have seen stuff that speculates that

1095
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: Tina was pregnant. She's at it's possible, It's possible, or

1096
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: there was fear that she was pregnant by Marty and

1097
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: that he, thinking that he was going to protect his

1098
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: world what he had and not let that get out

1099
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: and destroy it, went after her, and of course that

1100
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: meant Sue was the collateral damage. And before he could

1101
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: abscond with her and do whatever he intended to do

1102
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: with her to erase that evidence, the other two boys arrived.

1103
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time with that, except that,

1104
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean, initially you think, well, if this guy was

1105
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: having doing something sexual in nature with this girl, she

1106
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: would have told somebody, except that unfortunately, it's not the

1107
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: first time she had been molested by an adult, so

1108
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: she may have just never said this. Lots of speculation.

1109
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,479
Speaker 1: Lots of kids get molested and don't say anything. Yeah,

1110
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's Unfortunately, what the pedophiles count on

1111
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: is that they're too scared to say anything. But this

1112
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: is speculation. I can't say that it's true. I've seen

1113
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: it a little bit jibes, but a lot of it doesn't. Yeah,

1114
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: I've never seen any strong evidence that indicates to me

1115
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: that that's true. But the other thing about it is

1116
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: is that if he needed to get rid of Tina,

1117
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: and obviously get rid of the body because La Tops,

1118
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: it would have revealed that she was pregnant. Right, So

1119
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: if you need to do that, there are better ways

1120
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: to do it than killing a bunch of people. He

1121
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: could have easily, You could have easily just set up

1122
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: a meeting with her, especially if he was sleeping with her. Yeah,

1123
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: he could have just like you know, Center called her

1124
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: and said, hey, let's get together, and then then just

1125
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: take her out in the woods and murder her and

1126
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: bury her body. I'd like to introduce Exhibit one. Alcohol

1127
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: get drunk, You make dumb decisions. People make a lot

1128
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: of dumb decisions when they're I'm just gonna fix this now,

1129
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: and then they don't. I'm not I'm not accusing anything,

1130
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: but seeing I mean, we've all seen that. Again. I

1131
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: don't I don't buy this one. But if we're going

1132
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: to run down that avenue. I can see how it

1133
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 1: could have played out bad, whereas in his head was

1134
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: very simple, walk in, knockout suit, take take Tina, and

1135
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: get out, and instead it turns into a blood bath. Yeah, well,

1136
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: I gotta say he lacked out because usually when people

1137
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 1: commit really stupid off the cuff crimes like that, especially

1138
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: multiple murders, they almost always get caught. Yeah that's what

1139
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: a few they got away with it? If that's what?

1140
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: If that's I'm still not sure that Marty did this

1141
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: at all. Next, Next there are the three of the

1142
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: three young boys in the bedroom. Did it? But yeah,

1143
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: somebody actually actually got this one off of Redhead somebody

1144
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: sometimes I love Reddit. Uh well, actually they got to

1145
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: put it out there, said you know this this this

1146
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense. But but really, come on, it

1147
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that they were too young, they had

1148
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: no move. Well I guess, okay, so like young kids

1149
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: do dump things sometimes thinking they're playing right, they think

1150
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: it's like fun. But in reality, now that was the

1151
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: time when I was a kid, We're having a sleepover

1152
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: and we got hammers and killed a family. Well, we

1153
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: didn't mean to mean he was an accident. No. I

1154
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: think the thing is that if you think that's fun

1155
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: at ages five through twelve, you're probably going to exhibit

1156
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: some of those tendencies later in life too. It sounds

1157
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: like these boys didn't ever do they would all be

1158
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: in prison for sure or hopefully. I mean, that's that's

1159
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: the beginning of you know, psychotic behavior. And you would

1160
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: think that there would have been a lot of missing

1161
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: cats and dogs and stuff like that. This this is

1162
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: the build up stage, not the beginning. Tested out not

1163
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: to kill your first human being. Yeah. So anyway, I

1164
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: thought it was a fun theory, so I thought i'd

1165
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: put it in there. Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah,

1166
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: a little boy with murdering people another theory? Um funny games? Yeah,

1167
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: another serious Charles Ing and Leonard Lake. Uh these have

1168
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: you heard of these guys? Yeah, vicious, a couple of

1169
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: vicious serial killers. They had. Leonard Lake had a place

1170
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: in uh near not in but near Willseyville, California, which

1171
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: is about a hundred miles south of Ketty. And he

1172
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: had this kind of was kind of a fairly remote

1173
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: cabin and he had built himself a dungeon next to

1174
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: the cabin that he and then yeah, and build dungeons. Yeah,

1175
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: I never want to know. Yeah, they would. What these

1176
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: guys would do is they would abduct like a family

1177
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: or a group of people. They would usually kill them

1178
01:04:57,840 --> 01:04:59,959
Speaker 1: in and the babies fast, you know, because they didn't

1179
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 1: they need them. But they keep the women around and

1180
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: then rape them and torture them horribly, and that eventually

1181
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: murdered them too. This is like, what's that movie Hostile?

1182
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: I don't watch movies like that. I don't either, That's

1183
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: why I'm asking. This makes me think of like the

1184
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: crap I see in the previews of movies like that. Yeah, anyway,

1185
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: but as far as it being the pair of them,

1186
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, if you if you do a little googling

1187
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: on these two, yeah they had they had a real

1188
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: crime spree there. They killed a bunch of people pretty

1189
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: horribly too. But you gotta rule Charles hang out because

1190
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: as far as I was able to find, he was

1191
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: in prison until night two. That's just like a correction

1192
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: has gone wrong situation that Yeah, you know, I mean,

1193
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: if somebody's already been in jail and then gets released

1194
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: and goes on a rape, torture, murder spree for a

1195
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 1: couple of years, I feel like something failed there. Well,

1196
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: he was in he was in a military prison, so

1197
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: they weren't really trying to rehabilitate him. Yeah. Yeah, But

1198
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: he got out of prison in nineteen eighty two. He's

1199
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: been in contact with Leonard Lake already. They already knew

1200
01:05:58,240 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 1: each other, and Lay invited him to come up there

1201
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: and live at his cabin, and you know, they just

1202
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: to hang out up there and just occasionally, you know,

1203
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: go out and find some innocent people to abduct and

1204
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: murder horribly like what I'm saying, In could not have

1205
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: been involved. And by the way, at this point he

1206
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: was Leonard Lake, who is the guy I'm putting forth

1207
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: as a suspect, A possible, remotely possible suspect, was not

1208
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 1: yet Inisconsin's a little remote cabin. It's possible. I'm not

1209
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 1: saying he lived in Kitty, by the way, he didn't,

1210
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: but who knows. Maybe he was driving through Highway seventies

1211
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: spots a couple of teenage boys hitchhiking, picks them up,

1212
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: takes them back. Because the murders that he and Charles

1213
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 1: Inn committed together were incredibly vicious, and let's let's face it,

1214
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: the Kiddy murders were also incredibly vicious. I have no evidence,

1215
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: no proof whatsoever that it was actually him, but it

1216
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: makes sense because Tina was the one that was abducted.

1217
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: Now he's he's he's mobile, he doesn't have a dungeon

1218
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: or anything like that. He can only take one person

1219
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 1: with him. You take the smallest, Yeah, you take the smallest,

1220
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: You take the smallest one. So yeah, the weakest of

1221
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: the bunch. Yeah, yeah, take her. And of course he

1222
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: doesn't have his dungeons, so he can't. He's so he's

1223
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: got to just take her somewhere and you know, Tork

1224
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: tore her and then murder her and leave her the

1225
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: other ones he killed on the spot. And then that's

1226
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: what they would do again. They would they would kill

1227
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 1: the people that they weren't interested in raping first. Yeah.

1228
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: I feel I feel like and Lake are the equivalent

1229
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: of Devon. Last week, when we talked about the McCann case,

1230
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: there was the random guy that lived in Spain that

1231
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: was listed as a suspect in Germany. Can't pronounce yes

1232
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 1: because well, this is somebody who years later we know

1233
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: is a not Tory is bad person that was in

1234
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: the same general area exactly. That's that's my same feeling

1235
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: about this. There's president for it, though. I mean, oftentimes

1236
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: you find after you know a serial killer has been caught,

1237
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: you find, oh, well, they also lived in this area

1238
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: where these murders that are kind of similar or not

1239
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: totally similar, happened a couple of years before. It's that

1240
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: testing the water's face. Yeah, I'm not saying it's it's not,

1241
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: but that's that's my initial impression. Yeah, I think it's

1242
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 1: definitely something. I have really no evidence for it, but

1243
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: it just seems to me that, you know, I would

1244
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: think Leonard Lake is as strong as suspect as Marty

1245
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: Smart because Mrty Smart, for you, even though he was

1246
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: kind of screwed up and had an anger problem, he

1247
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: you know, as far as I can tell, he didn't

1248
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: show the kind of viciousness that it would have taken.

1249
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,440
Speaker 1: All you have to do is go look at the

1250
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: crime scene photos to kind of understand what we're talking.

1251
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: Vicious is the exact actually the word, yes, because it's

1252
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: not to make a joke, but it was overkill. Yeah,

1253
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: it was. It was absolute. The over the top was

1254
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: what was going on. It was it was just it

1255
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 1: wasn't just getting the job done. It was sadistic. Sadistic,

1256
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: But that's one of the things. It's a weird thing

1257
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: in favor of Martin not being responsible. Is that on

1258
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: in the tapes with him from the cops, he's like,

1259
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: I I don't understand how somebody could do that. If

1260
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: I had somebody to kill, I'd get in, I'd get

1261
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,639
Speaker 1: it done, and i'd get out. I wouldn't do all

1262
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: this other stuff, which, okay, well, maybe that's you know,

1263
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: him leading the path to defend himself, to lead them off.

1264
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: But at the same time he doesn't sound he sounds

1265
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: like he just saying, like, dude, that was so weird.

1266
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: Why would you do that in a normal conversational tone

1267
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: that pass into it? Yeah, exactly, exactly. The and you know,

1268
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: remember only one was gagged, so it was it was

1269
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: Sue Sharp that was gagged. The boys were the boys.

1270
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: The boys were knocked out. Yeah, the boys got cocked

1271
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: out pretty fast, it did. Yeah. But yeah, it looked

1272
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 1: like Sue was alive for a while, out of conscious.

1273
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,839
Speaker 1: And again it's quite possible if she had to witness

1274
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: the murders of those two boys. Well, and there was

1275
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: a lot of blood on the bottom of her feet,

1276
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, you know, somebody's blood. The one thing,

1277
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: thankfully that I was really surprised about was there was

1278
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: no sexual misconduct in this whole thing. Well like thankfully

1279
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: rape never came into this as far as as far

1280
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: as far as they found out in any of it.

1281
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 1: For the victims that were left in the cabin that

1282
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: was not there, and I was that's one of the

1283
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: that's the weird thing. Okay, Well, if the boys are fine,

1284
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: Sue's fine, and Tina's taken, it doesn't make sense. You

1285
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: would think that somebody that was on a let's kill

1286
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: him and have a little set choll funds free wouldn't

1287
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 1: have cared. But that's that's very general, very vague. I

1288
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 1: understand that before anybody lights up and as a heyday

1289
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: and sends me a Wikipedia article about weird perversions, I

1290
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 1: know that that's not exactly right, but it just seems

1291
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: like you would have seen more indications of something like

1292
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:25,759
Speaker 1: that in the whole thing, which is I mean, personally,

1293
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: I hope that you know they took Tino away and

1294
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: then did her in quietly, but I don't know, I

1295
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 1: don't understand why they would have done that. I'm saying

1296
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: what I would like to hear. That's that's what I

1297
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,440
Speaker 1: would like to believe too. But yeah, I can't conceivably

1298
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: think of a reason why. But anyway, do you guys

1299
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: have any more theories? Thankfully? No, yeah, exactly case. I'm sorry. Yeah,

1300
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's but it was time for

1301
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: us to do a hideous it's been a while, it was. Yeah, okay,

1302
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna be able to solve this one, unfortunately,

1303
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: unless we go down there with our magnifying glasses. I

1304
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: think that it's yeah, cabin did the cabalist demo, Yeah,

1305
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: something like that. They were condemned and they finally bulldozed him. Yeah,

1306
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: and I don't think they were probably people lining up

1307
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 1: to go live in that cabin anyway. I think there

1308
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 1: was one family did move in afterwards, and actually maybe

1309
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: they didn't know, but you know, I mean, you've seen

1310
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,839
Speaker 1: the crime scene photographs the cabin. The cabin was an armpit.

1311
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: It was it was. I would have to be pretty

1312
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 1: damn poor before I would live in that place. Take

1313
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: your college dorm room and put wood paneling and ugly

1314
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: seventies carpet in it, and then twenty years of dirt

1315
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: and we're talking not wood paneling, the nice stuff with

1316
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: the stuff that's made out of kind of press board,

1317
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: with the lambing of stuff that the ugly, nasty stuff.

1318
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I know the stuff you find in nineteen

1319
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 1: fifties trailers. Yeah, the kind I grew up in. Yeah, yeah,

1320
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 1: I know that. Yeah. The place was dump so glad

1321
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: I didn't have to live there. And I'm glad I

1322
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: didn't live there because i'd be dead, so thank god. Alright, son, No, nope, nope,

1323
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: out there is Okay. Well, I think that's it for

1324
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: this week, so sorry, apologize. I know we usually solve things,

1325
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: but not this week. Sorry. Yeah. I think according to

1326
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: our drinking game, that means that you have to like

1327
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: finish like five beers or something something. I'm sorry about that.

1328
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: Hung over. Yeah no, well I gotta do it. I

1329
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 1: want to get people drink. All right, So let me

1330
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 1: give you some some very very important information. First of all,

1331
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 1: you want to find our website. You'll find links about

1332
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: this story as well as the story itself to be downloaded.

1333
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: That's thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can leave comments, uh,

1334
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: and of course listen to episodes. Of course, you can

1335
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: also find us on iTunes, which is probably where you're

1336
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: finding us. So remember, subscribe, give us a review, give

1337
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 1: us a comment. We like that stuff. You can stream us, uh,

1338
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 1: pretty much anywhere, and I mean, I don't know how

1339
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 1: many streaming services there are nowadays a lot of them,

1340
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: so I find one of those that stream us. You

1341
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook. You can also find us

1342
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways, not thinking, but

1343
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: thinking sideways. And if you want to send us an email,

1344
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,560
Speaker 1: you can send us an email at Thinking Sideways Podcast

1345
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Um, you know, we suggestions are great.

1346
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 1: If you just want to tell us how awesome we are,

1347
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: that's great. If you have constructive criticism, that's good too. Oh,

1348
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: don't forget. On the website, theory is on the right

1349
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: hand panel. The link for shirts because we do have

1350
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:43,679
Speaker 1: an iPhone and iPhone cases and we had a couple

1351
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 1: of different things, but those are There's a link for

1352
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: Zazzle that takes you right to our store, so those

1353
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: are there as well, which reminds me I need to

1354
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 1: buy my shirt. Yeah, yeah, we have to buy our

1355
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 1: own shirts. No, I know it's zazz Actually. Zazzle wrote

1356
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: us an email just yesterday saying they're running out of stock.

1357
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 1: Better buy your T shirts and mugson. Yeah. I better

1358
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: be the same. Yeah. Alright, Well that's it for this week.

1359
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: Another mystery down. You guys have any remaining thoughts. I

1360
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: really don't want to have to walk to my car

1361
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: right now. Let's let's I'll huddle in the bathroom. Yeah,

1362
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: lock the door. Well, there's plenty of water. We'll take

1363
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 1: some cans of food. It'll be safe. Alright, Bye, guys,

1364
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 1: All right, so long for this week. Bye. Why are

1365
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:33,719
Speaker 1: you giving me that weird look?