1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Robert Lamb and this is the 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: Monster Fact omnibus. That's right. In this special episode of 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: The Monster Fact, please enjoy the first five episodes about 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: monsters and monster adjacent entities from the Marvel Comics universe. 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: And I say the first five because I think I'm 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: going to dip back into the Marvel universe in the 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: weeks or months ahead, so feel free to send suggestions 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: of popular and well known intrigues or more obscure entities 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: from Marvel Comics or other comics for that matter. We'll 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: probably dip back into DC and others in the future 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: as well. So up first, let's consider the mummies of 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: Marvel Comics. First up is Nakantu, the Living Mummy, created 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: by Steve Gerber and Rich Buckler for supernatural thriller back 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three. The story goes that Nikantu was 16 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: a North African tribesman who, after capture by the Egyptians, 17 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: led her a vault, but was ultimately embalmed, alive and 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 2: sealed in a tomb by an evil priest. Three thousand 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: years later, he awakens in modern times, first as a 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: rampaging monster and ultimately as a monstrous hero who fights 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: alongside the likes of Morbius, the Living Vampire, Werewolf by 22 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: Night Man, Than and others as part of the Legion 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 2: of Monsters. In addition to his mystic senses, the Living 24 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: Mummy also boasts incredible strength, which isn't surprising given that 25 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: Marvel dot Com lists him at a height of seven 26 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: foot six or about two hundred and thirty two centimeters. 27 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: That's two inches taller than Andre the Giants build height. 28 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: You might guess then that Nakhan to the Living Mummy 29 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: is the tallest mummy in the Marvel universe, and you 30 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: would be dead wrong. Allow me to introduce you to Gomdola, who, 31 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: like Nikantu, looks like your standard bandage wrapped on dead 32 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: horror movie mummy, only he's roughly the size of King Kong. Yes, 33 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: Gomdola is a true giant mummy. He first rampaged in 34 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: the pages of Journey into Mystery back in nineteen sixty 35 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: and is credited by Marvel dot Com to the legendary 36 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: Jack Kirby and Dick Ayres. One of the books I 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: source for this series is monsters creatures of the Marvel 38 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: Universe explored by Kelly Knox. Knox lists Gomdola at a 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: height of up to sixty feet or eighteen meters, and 40 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 2: describes his awakening in a modern Egyptian museum, his subsequent rampage, 41 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: his pursuit by Interpole, his worship by cultists, and eventually 42 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: his battles with the Fantastic Four. The secret to his 43 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: great size, however, is that he's not a mummified human, 44 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: but an evil robot from another planet that terrorized ancient 45 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: Egypt before being deactivated and stuck away in a tomb. 46 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: Like a lot of classic curvy monsters, Gomdola is an 47 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 2: only big and physically powerful, he also has other crazy 48 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: powers like levitation and telekinesis. So at this point you 49 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: might be wondering, fine, given all of this, exactly how 50 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: tall is the tallest mummy actually unearthed in real life? 51 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: The answer would seem to be Third Dynasty Pharaoh Sonicate 52 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: during the third millennium BCE. By today's height standards, and 53 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: certainly by Marvel comic standards, he wasn't too terribly tall, 54 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: only one hundred and eighty seven centimeters or about six 55 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: foot one and a half, but for the time period, 56 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: based on what we know from skeletal evidence, he was 57 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: considerably taller than average. As discussed in the twenty seventeen 58 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: paper Oldest Case of Gigantism Assessment of the alleged Remains 59 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: of Sonicate, King of Ancient Egypt, published in The Lancet, 60 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: he is still the oldest known paleo pathological case of gigantism. 61 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: The authors Galassi at All indicate that skull measurements, photos, 62 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: bone data, and other measurements suggests gigantism and possibly acromagaly 63 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: in the facial features, though regressed through age. In analysis 64 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: of his physical and royal stature, the authors write the 65 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: following quote. The fact that he was buried with honors 66 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: in an elite Mastaba tomb after reaching adulthood suggests that 67 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: gigantism at the time was probably not associated with social margination. 68 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: While short people were much preferred in ancient Egypt, especially 69 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: in the early Dynastic period, we have no records that 70 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: very tall people had any special social preference or disadvantage. 71 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: Sonicut was originally unearthed in nineteen oh one, so it 72 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: seems to possible that his discovery and subsequent writings about 73 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: his discovery or treatments of this general theme and other 74 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: works might have influenced the creation of these two Marvel mummies, 75 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 2: but I couldn't find any definitive mention of it. And 76 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: we also have to consider the influence of things like 77 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: the widespread hoax of the Cardiff Giant mixed with just 78 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: a little good old fashioned mummy mania. Now, to come 79 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: back to Nakantu, the Living Mummy and Gomdola, I have 80 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 2: to point out that, as far as I can tell, 81 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,119 Speaker 2: these two never faced off against each other. Comic fans, 82 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, please write in and let me know. Also, 83 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: to date, neither Mummy has crossed over into the MCU 84 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 2: or other Marvel movies, but we can only imagine that 85 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: they are both out there waiting, sleeping, anticipating their release. 86 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: All right, now, let's move on into the world of mutants, 87 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: with Mystique going to continue our look at various monsters 88 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: from Marvel comics in this episode. Though today's pick is 89 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: probably better described as a human mutant. It's none other 90 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: than Raven Darkholme aka Mystique, the blueskinned, red haired shape shifter, 91 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 2: whose various affiliations have cast her at times as a 92 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: supervillain and other times as an anti hero in the 93 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: Marvel universe, created by Chris Claremont and Dave cockrum back 94 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight. She has a long history in 95 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: various X Men media. Mystique's most obvious mutant power is, 96 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: of course, her ability to alter her appearance and morphology, 97 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: taking on the likeness of anyone in her path, often 98 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: in order to carry out dastardly plots and assassinations. In 99 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: the excellent book Marvel Anatomy by Mark Sumarak and Daniel 100 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: Wallace with illustrations by Jonah Lowe, the authors point out 101 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: out that her shape changing occurs at a molecular level, 102 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: enabling her to even reproduce the semblance of clothing and 103 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: additional appendages as needed to enhance a disguise or to 104 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: aid in combat. She is, in short, the ultimate infiltrator 105 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,119 Speaker 2: and the ultimate deceiver. Now on the shape shifting front, 106 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: attempting to compare her to the natural world's own shape 107 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: shifting expert, the mimic octopus. But I've discussed that particular 108 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: species on the Monster fact already, and besides, I was 109 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: even more intrigued by something else that the authors mention 110 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: concerning Mystique's abilities so advance is her ability to manipulate 111 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: her own form. She can actually move vital internal organs 112 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: around within her body to avoid fatal injuries. Now, this 113 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: would seem to include sliding her heart out of position 114 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: and into say her upper thigh, or squeezing her brain 115 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: down into her net or partially into her neck, or 116 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: perhaps even into her arm. Thus, coupled with accelerated healing, 117 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: she can plot to evade certain death blows, either in 118 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: disguise or out of it, and this has fooled her 119 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: would be killers many times over the years. This ability 120 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: really intrigued me. I was asking myself, are there species 121 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: in the natural world that can match or exceed this? 122 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: And I suppose it depends on how you choose to 123 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: compare it. Certainly we can think of various amorphous bodies 124 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 2: and start there. We can also think about metamorphosis. During metamorphosis, 125 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: most of a caterpillar's brain is broken down and ultimately 126 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: rebuilt into its adult form, which is one of nature's 127 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: stunning shape shifting feats. But this is almost too extreme 128 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: to compare the Mystique's shell game of sensitive organs We've 129 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: already discussed the shrew's ability to shrink their brains during 130 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:59,239 Speaker 2: the winter, though they don't exactly reposition them. However, during pregnancy, 131 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: a mother's orgles will shift to accommodate the growing fetus. 132 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: The heart in particular is shifted during human pregnancy, though 133 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: the exact details vary depending on the individual. Beauterus grows, 134 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: elevating the diaphragm and pushing the heart upward and kind 135 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: of to the left. It may also push it forward 136 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: a little. While the heart itself does not enlarge, the 137 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: shift in position can lead to a misdiagnosis of an 138 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: enlarged heart. Likewise, the resulting distortions and the detectable sounds 139 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: of the heart may require further analysis by a specialist. 140 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: So that's one perfectly natural way that the human body 141 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: can and does go moving its heart around. It's not 142 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: as extreme as the exploits of a human mutant from 143 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: the Marvel Universe, but it's still absolutely amazing. One final 144 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: note on mystique is that, according to Sumarak and Wallace, 145 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 2: her cellular manipulation of her own body actually rejuvenates her 146 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 2: cells with each transformation, vastly extending her lifespan, or even 147 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: providing her a form of biological immortality. While rare and 148 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 2: still very much an area of interest and exploration for 149 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: natural world scientists, we seem to see something similar in 150 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: certain varieties of jellyfish and plenarian flatworms, though we always 151 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: have to remember there's a difference between what is likely 152 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: under ideal lab conditions and what is likely given the 153 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: challenges of the wild. Mystique has already lived a long life, 154 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: but the Marvel universe is a dangerous place much like 155 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: the natural world, and she's made no shortage of enemies 156 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: over the years, but it would be a mistake to 157 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: underestimate her abilities. Up next, please destroy your other cards 158 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 2: here and add plus two power for each destroyed, because 159 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about the symbiits now. For 160 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 2: those of us less familiar with the intricacies of the 161 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: Marvel Universe, such as familiarity primarily through various films and 162 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: the ninety Spider Man cartoon, the basic origin story is 163 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: pretty straightforward. Here, Spider Man acquires a new black and 164 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: white costume from space that turns out to be a 165 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: kind of sentient alien ooze. It flows over him becomes 166 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 2: his new costume. It gives him enhance stabilities, but it 167 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: also becomes clear that the alien symbiant is slowly taking over. 168 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: Once successfully rejected, the alien suit finds a new host 169 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 2: in Eddie Brock, giving birth to the villain and ultimately 170 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: anti hero Venom. Initially introduced in the mid nineteen eighties, 171 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: the lore and legacy of the alien symbiant suit would 172 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 2: continue to grow in Marvel comics, eventually encompassing multiple Clintar 173 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 2: symbiants as they would come to be known, such as Carnage, 174 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: as well as a fleshed out origin story. They are 175 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: the ancient bioweapons of a dark stellar deity known as Knoll, 176 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: the King in Black, overthrown but not killed by his 177 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: own slimy creations. In ages past, Venom stands out as 178 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: the prime example of a Clintar symbiant merged with a 179 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: human being, while the case of Spider Man wearing the 180 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 2: alien suit suggests more of an exosymbiant, a layer of 181 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: living ooze that acts as a kind of organic power armor. 182 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: Venom is merged with host Eddie Brock. Ultimately, at a 183 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 2: cellular level, it flows over him, encompassing him in a 184 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 2: powerful artifice of pseudopods and muscles. This would be exosymbiosis, 185 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: but it also surges inside him, which would be endosymbiosis. 186 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: In a similar way, Venom's chaotic offspring carnage manages to 187 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: merge with host Cletus Cassidy's very blood. In the natural world, 188 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: symbiosis is a complex topic. At times, it can be 189 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: tricky to determine just where parasitism ends in some form 190 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 2: of mutualism or commensalism begins. A parasitic relationship between two 191 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: organisms can evolve into mutualism over time, for instance, with 192 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: a one sided relationship becoming something more balanced. But symbiosis 193 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: on its own need not benefit both organisms to be 194 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: symbiotic in nature. A twenty eighteen Yale study by Shapiro 195 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 2: and Turner published in the journal Evolution explored mutualistic relationships 196 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: between bacteria and viruses that were seemingly once parasitic in nature. 197 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: They found that these changes could evolve in either direction 198 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: in as little as twenty generations. The paper discusses parasitism 199 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: and mutualism as both being on the quote unquote symbiotic spectrum, 200 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: which is perhaps a term worth keeping in mind when 201 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: considering the Clintars of Marvel comics. Some view the Clintars 202 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 2: as parasites, others as symbiotic enhancements. Certainly they can be 203 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: either in the eye of the beholder, but the exact 204 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: balance of the change they bring to a host can 205 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: certainly adjust over time, as we see with Venom. Or Certainly, 206 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: this relationship could simply evolve over the vast expanse of 207 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: time since the King in Black first brought them into 208 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: the cosmos. Venom, the alien costume, and the various symbiants 209 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: are the creation of multiple Marvel artists and illustrators, but 210 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: the basic idea arises out of the zeitgeist of the 211 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: mid nineteen eighties, and various assessments have linked the entity 212 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: to various social and public health issues of the nineteen 213 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: eighties in compelling ways. From a purely scientific point of view, 214 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: beyond the mere treatment of symbiosis, Venom and his fellow 215 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: Clintars would also be examples of a kind of pan 216 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: spermic symbiosis. After all, the origin of the alien suit 217 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: is somewhere in outer space. Right. On one hand, even 218 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: a highly adaptive symbiotic organism just might not be able 219 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: to join with an extraterrestrial mode of life. The attempt 220 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: could simply be ineffective, or it could be catastrophic. On 221 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: the other hand, if one leans fully into the fringes 222 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: of panspermia hypothesis, then maybe maybe we'd have enough in common. 223 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: But again we're drifting into the unknown and the unprovable here, 224 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: especially since life on Earth is the only model of 225 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: life we know. But the Symbiants of Marvel are ultimately 226 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: less concerned with science and more concerned with power, identity, 227 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: and will, and also with lashing tendrils of ooze. Of course, 228 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: now onto a classic Marvel superhero, the Thing from the 229 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: Fantastic Four. So far in this series of episodes on 230 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: the Monsters of Marvel Comics, we've discussed mummies, mystique, and 231 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 2: the Symbiants, but now it's Coloperant. We're of course talking 232 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: about Ben Grimm, a human test pilot transformed into an 233 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: orange rock skin superbruiser by cosmic rays. The other humans 234 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: aboard the experimental spaceship would become Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman 235 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: and human Torch, and of course now we're talking about 236 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: the Thing all together. They're the Fantastic Four. Grim's skin 237 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: is encased in plates of stone reminiscent of the epidermal 238 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: scales or scoots found on various birds and reptiles, but 239 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: more importantly for our discussions here on a few mammals, 240 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: namely the extant armadillo and the extinct glyptodot. Though with 241 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: Marbles the Thing, these plates are not keratin, but some 242 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: form of indestructible rock. It's the perfect body armour for 243 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: the sort of superhero who regularly throws down with the 244 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: likes of Doctor Doom, Frankenstein's Monster, and The Incredible Hulk. 245 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: But I didn't decide to do this episode on the 246 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 2: Thing based purely on Ben Grimm's rocky skin. It was 247 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: actually his fingers that attracted me to the big luck. 248 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: I don't think I'd ever noticed this myself before. But 249 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 2: while human Grim of course had five digits on each hand, 250 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 2: thing has only four, you know, like Mickey Mouse or 251 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: a character on The Simpsons. In the excellent book Marvel 252 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: Anatomy by Mark Sumerek and Daniel Wallace with illustrations by 253 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: Jonah Loebe, the authors point out that on occasion, special 254 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: circumstances allowed Grim to retain his human form, including all 255 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: four original fingers, only to lose one in the transformation 256 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: back to the thing. The authors and illustrator here speculate 257 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 2: that beneath his armor plating, his ring and pinky fingers 258 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: are fused together into a single digit, and that X 259 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: ray imagery would reveal all the bones of two fingers 260 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: in things outer most digit. I love this detail, but 261 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: of course, what does it mean? Perhaps nothing, but it's 262 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 2: interesting to note that most of us non superheroes can't 263 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 2: move our pinky finger without also moving our ring finger, 264 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: and the reason for this is that the nerves for 265 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: these digits are intertwined. Perhaps this anatomical fact has something 266 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: to do with things tetradactyly. It makes it harder for 267 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 2: Grim to use normal devices, but perhaps the fused finger 268 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 2: aids him in grappling monsters and hurling debris during superhero battles. 269 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: A natural world form of this fusing, known as syndactyly, 270 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 2: occurs infrequently in humans, but is a common feature of 271 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 2: some organisms, such as the Siamang, a primate native to 272 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: Sumatra in the Melee Peninsula. They have naturally occurring webbing 273 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: between their second and third toes, and sometimes the fourth 274 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 2: and fifth toes are also webbed together as well. The 275 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: purpose of syndactyly in the cimang, however, remains elusive, as 276 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 2: pointed out by Weisbecker and Nielsen in a two thousand 277 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: and eight article published in BMC Evolutionary Biology. Past hypotheses 278 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 2: have explored the possibility that the webbed digits are adaptive 279 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: for the creatures are boreal lifestyle, or for use in grooming, 280 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 2: but the authors find these hypotheses unconvincing and stress that 281 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: it might not be a functional adaptive trait at all. 282 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: A true explanation remains elusive. Things fingers are not merely webbed, however, 283 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 2: but tightly fused into a single digit reminiscent of, say, 284 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: a whale's flipper, so the comparison is perhaps less than illuminating. 285 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 2: We might well compare it, however, to cases of complex 286 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: syndactally in the natural world, in which the bones are 287 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: fused together as well as the flesh. The kangaroo is 288 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 2: a great example of this, with its middle toes fused together. 289 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 2: According to John Simons in the twenty thirteen book Kangaroo Quote, 290 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: this seems to have been driven by a change from 291 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: tree dwelling to ground dwelling. But is now marvelously adapted 292 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: for hopping. By the way, connecting to our core stuffed 293 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: to blow your mind episodes on the Horse, you might 294 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 2: find it interesting to know that the extinct short faced kangaroo, 295 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 2: including the giant Procoptodon, actually evolved to feature hoofed single 296 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 2: digits on their toes as well. With the thing. However, Hmmm, 297 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to stand by my own hypothesis regarding 298 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: the fused digits that somehow this is aiding Ben Grimm 299 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: in clabbering time. But I would love to hear from 300 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: anyone out there if you have a hypothesis regarding the 301 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: curious hands of the thing. Finally, let's consider one last 302 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: weird entry with Ulvar the Giant. The Marvel Comics universe 303 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: is full of giant monster conquerors with crazy powers, and 304 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: yet a giant by the name of Ulvar manages to 305 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: stand out. A creation of stan Lee, Larry Lieber and 306 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 2: Jack Kirby from a nineteen sixty edition of Journey into Mystery, 307 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 2: The story, as recounted in Monsters Creatures of the Marvel 308 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 2: Universe explored by Kelly Knox, actually begins with another giant 309 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 2: alien conqueror Gagants, the Atlantean who arises from his undersea 310 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 2: kingdom to lay claim to coastal San Diego and also 311 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: presumably the world. After poking around the surface world for 312 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: a bit staking out the claim, if you will, Gagantis 313 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: returns to the waters to report back home to Atlantis, 314 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 2: and here he encounters an even taller, even more intimidating 315 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: giant standing in the ocean. It is Oulvar. Oulvar stands 316 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: a good thousand feet or three hundred and four point 317 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: eight meters tall, and absolutely towers over the puny Atlantean 318 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: far beneath him. In a booming voice, it proclaims that 319 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 2: Earth is now the property of the planet Centaurus too, 320 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 2: so hands off. This, of course, leaves Gagantis with no 321 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 2: other option but to return home to the ocean depths 322 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: in defeat. It's only then in the comic that it's 323 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 2: revealed that Olvar is not an alien conqueror at all, 324 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: but a giant decoy built by humans to scare away 325 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: there would be conquerors. The illustrations in Knox's book revealed 326 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: that Olvar was atomic powered and commanded from a central 327 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: control room inside the body. Yet this is not a 328 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: fighting robot like your mecha godzillas or your voltrons. No, 329 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: Olvar was nothing but a highly successful technological bluff. Later 330 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: we learned that Olivar was eventually dismantled, so complete was 331 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 2: his victory, and his head now rests on the ocean floor. 332 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 2: Now I love this story the moment I read it, 333 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 2: such a ridiculous twist, but I was at a loss 334 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: as how to really tie it into anything on the 335 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: monster fact, aside from decoys and scarecrows, which we may 336 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 2: come back to this Halloween and stuff to blow your mind. 337 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: But then I heard the story of Italian fishermen and 338 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: conservationist Paolo Fancioli, as detailed in a twenty twenty Guardian 339 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: story by Giorgio Giglioni. Italian law already banned environmentally destructive 340 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 2: trawling nets in its waters, and Tuscan authorities took to 341 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: dropping blocks of concrete on the seafloor to disrupt the 342 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 2: nets of illegal trawlers, but Fancioli and others noticed that 343 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: these were spaced too far apart to make much difference 344 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: with permission. He began to sink more blocks of stone, 345 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: but decided to take things in a more artistic direction. 346 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: A local quarry donated one hundred blocks of granite, and 347 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: local artists volunteered to shape them into stone guardians that 348 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: now occupy an underwater sculpture garden to both deterillegal fissures, 349 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: but also to attract scuba diving tourists. Like Ulvar, they 350 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: serve as stone guardians on the seafloor, though they're a 351 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: direct physical deterrent rather than a communicative one. Now another 352 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: possible connection to make with the real world and Ulvar 353 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: here would be the concept of using artistic creations such 354 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: as sculpture to warn future generations about radioactive sites. The 355 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: Landscape of Thorn's concept by architect Michael Brill, proposed in 356 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, is one of the more evocative of these. 357 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: Proposed for the US Department of Energy report for the 358 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 2: Waste Isolation Pilot Plant or WIPP. It envisioned a series 359 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 2: of jagged concrete thorns emerging from the ground of a 360 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: radioactive site. This was one of several proposed long term 361 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: nuclear waste warning messages from the nineteen ninety three Sandia 362 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 2: National Laboratories report that included other threatening works of stone 363 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 2: or earth, but no giant aliens at least with the 364 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 2: fictional Ulvar example, humans knew who Tod direct the message 365 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: at Gagantis, the Atlantean in the comics. They'd already met him, 366 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 2: they'd seen him around the surface world. But creating a 367 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: non linguistic message for human beings ten thousand years in 368 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: the future is another matter altogether. Finally, Oulvar can be 369 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 2: thought of as a kind of tongue in cheek opposite 370 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: to the Pioneer plaque. It would be later placed on 371 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 2: board the nineteen seventy two Pioneer ten and nineteen seventy 372 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 2: three Pioneer eleven spacecraft, serving as a kind of time capsule, 373 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: but also potentially as a message to alien beings, this 374 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: is what we are, and here is what we were. 375 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 2: Olvar's message, however, is simply, don't mess with us. We're 376 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: one thousand foot tall monsters. Tune in for additional episodes 377 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 2: of The Monster Fact each week. As always. You can 378 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 2: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 379 00:25:52,760 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: dot com. 380 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: Stuffed Blow your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For more 381 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 382 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.