1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. It has been almost 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: fifty years since President Richard Milhouse Nixon resigned from the presidency. 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Nixon normalized US relations with China, and by so doing, 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: he encircled the Soviets and made certain they knew they 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: were on the losing side of the Cold War. Nixon 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: signed the first major strategic arms limitation treaty with the Soviets, 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: which involved real cuts done out of mutual respect and fear. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Nixon made peace possible in them at least, and saved 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: the children of Israel by assuring that Israel would not 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: be defeated in the Youm Kipper War. Nixon ended the 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: war in Vietnam and brought home the prisoners. Nixon said 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: he would leave us a generation of peace, and he did. 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: My guest today was a speech writer and friend of 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: President Nixon and says he misses him every day, and 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: he's joining me to discuss his new book, The Peacemaker. Nixon, 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: the Man President, and my friend. I'm really pleased to 17 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Ben Stein. He is a writer, actor, economist, 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: and lawyer. He writes the Dreams column for Newsmas magazine. 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: Ben Stein's Diary for the American spectator and is the 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: host of the World according to ben Stein Podcast. His 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: comedic role as the economics teacher in the film Ferris 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: Buehler's Day Off has been ranked as one of the 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: fifty most famous scenes. 24 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: In movie history. 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: He was the co host of the Emmy Award winning 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: win ben Stein's Money. He's also the New York Times 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: best selling author or co author of over thirty books. 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: Ben Welcome, and thank you for joining me on Newtsworld. 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: You're very kind, Thank you very much. 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: When did you first hear about Richard Nixon and who 31 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: did he first sort of enter your life? 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: I would say when I was about seven years old, 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: and I lived in Silver Spring, Maryland, right outside Washington, 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: d C. We lived there because even though my father 35 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: had quite a good job, extremely good job, Jews were 36 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: not allowed to live in the nicest neighborhoods in Washington, 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: like Spring Valley or Wesley Heights. And some nice developers 38 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: had taken some raw land out in Maryland and built 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: them in developments that were by no means fancy, but 40 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: perfectly adequate. And we lived there, and we were perfectly 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: happy living there. And I might add every single day 42 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: that I woke up and thought, holy smoke, Benji, you 43 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: are in America. It was a great, great day, Benji. 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: You're in America. You're not in Germany or not in Poland, 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: you're not in Russia. You are in America. And it's 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: all gravy after that. 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: And I noticed, also because it was described brilliantly that 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: you had a brand new Magnavox TV. I remember those 49 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: those really big wooden cabinets. 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: Yes, blond wood. 51 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: But you ended up watching the House on American Activities 52 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: Committee on television at a young age. 53 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes, with my mother and 54 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: father and my mother. I'm positive that you must have 55 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: met her at some function in Washington. Mildred's side, she 56 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: was an extremely militant anti communist. She is probably one 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: of the few Jews in Montgomery County who was a 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: fan of Joe McCarthy. And she brought me up on 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 2: that that anti communism was mother's milk to me, Sir, 60 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: and I happened to live next door to our family 61 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: who were well communists, and they had a different view 62 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: of the world from mine, but they were still very 63 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: good neighbors. Their child turned out to be Carl Bernstein, 64 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: a quite famous so called journalist, and I loved him 65 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: a lot, loved his parents a lot. But he and 66 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: I were on different sides of the fence, but we 67 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: were still good friends. And that's the way America was 68 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: in those days. You could be wildly on the other 69 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: side of the fence from the other guy or gal, 70 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: and you can still be friends. That's not true anymore. 71 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: This is kind of amazing. I did not know this story. 72 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: But you end up meeting Richard Nixon when he is 73 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: vice presidential candidate. How old are you at that point? 74 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I was probably seven years old, and he was 75 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: campaigning a genuine whistle stop tour. I don't think they 76 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: have whistle stop tours anymore, but they used to have 77 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: whistle stop tors. My mother took me up to Silver Spring, 78 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: Maryland b and O Railroad station and I heard mister 79 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,559 Speaker 2: Nixon give a speech. I thought he did a great job. 80 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: My neighbors, all kind of left wingers, thought it was terrible. 81 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: They couldn't get over the fact that I had gone there, 82 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: that my mother had lifted me up on her shoulders 83 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: to see and hear mister Nixon. But my parents loved him. 84 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: They started out loving him they never stopped loving him. 85 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: My parents had been Republicans since basically since there was 86 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: a Republican party. That was very, very blessed to have 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: parents who are parents and other ancestors who were born 88 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: in the United States of America, and they were all Republican, 89 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 2: mostly because Republicans were against alcohol, and our family has 90 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: always been against alcohol. So there you are. 91 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: That's wild. So we leaped forward. And after eight years 92 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: of his vice president, Nixon is running for president and 93 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: you meet him again. 94 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: Yes, I met him again. He actually met him several times, 95 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: but this time I met him when he was I 96 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: think I met him several times in that campaign, but 97 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: one of them was at Montgomery Blair High School in 98 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: Silver Spring and he was giving another whistle stop tour, 99 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: and I thought he gave a great, wonderful speech. And 100 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: I still remember, though I think I didn't remember time 101 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: doing good in my book, mister Nixon gave such a 102 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: good speech that people were demonstrating outside against him, but 103 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 2: that was just a sign what a good speech he gave. 104 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: And I remember thinking myself, Wow, I wish I were 105 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: old enough to vote for him, but I wasn't, and 106 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 2: I didn't vote for him. But I liked him well 107 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: enough to vote for him when I was younger than 108 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: ten years old. I just loved him. He just seemed 109 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: like my kind of guy. He loved America, he loved 110 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 2: the Republican Party, and the Republican Party, as far as 111 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm concerned, is the main instrument of loving democracy and 112 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: loving law in the United States of America. And I 113 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: don't regret one second of loving Nixon. I don't regret 114 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 2: it at all. I mean not at all. And it's 115 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: even my wife, the world's finest human being. Even she, 116 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: for a time when we were at Yale, did not 117 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: love Nixon, but I always did. 118 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting you point out the one 119 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: he's running for election in nineteen sixty. He's talking about 120 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: something which the modern media has mostly covered up, and 121 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: that is that the initial steps on ending segregation were 122 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: being taken by Republicans, and in fact it was Democrats 123 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: who were segregationists, and Democrats who had for one hundred 124 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: years been oppressing blacks, and that the whole story has 125 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: been turned on its head by the modern media. 126 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 2: Exactly right. And if I may mention this really really 127 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: really very bolten subject. Delaware was a reliably segregation state, 128 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: and mister Biden was a reliable voice for segregation. He 129 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: was a reliable voice against bussing, and we just thought 130 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: he was not a nicer guy where black people were concerned, 131 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: and we were right about that, And of course now 132 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: he's their best friend. And I don't know how that 133 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: got also turned around. But it's interesting. The Republican Party 134 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: was founded, was founded to end the depression of black 135 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: people in the United States of America, and that's what 136 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: has been ever since. And somehow the media has gotten 137 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: in there and swirled everything around and gotten confused. So 138 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: now the Republicans are the oppressors of black people, which 139 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: is just nonsense. Republicans have never been the oppressors of 140 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: black people. Democrats. I don't think the Democrats are necessarily now, 141 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: although to the extent that they enable people to have 142 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: feelings of racial animals, I think they have done extremely 143 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: bad things and doesn't make me love them. 144 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: You'd already gotten to meet Nixon and then he of 145 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: course loses in sixty by a very narrow margin. It 146 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: was my first campaign as a volunteer. 147 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: I would say a negative margin. I'm to Bickerburton. 148 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: It was one of the longest nights of my life 149 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: because I'd worked very hard. That's the first time i'd 150 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: really been active as a volunteer. An election night, listening 151 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: to Illinois slip away and Texas slip away. It was 152 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: just amazing. 153 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was amazing because, of course I think, and 154 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: of course it wasn't there I was watching it. It 155 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: was amazing because it was so clearly corrupt. It was 156 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: so clear that mister Kennedy, as very rich father, had 157 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: appeared on the scene with boxes full of money to 158 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: give the people who would make sure that the count 159 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 2: in their area came out pro Democrat. And so mister 160 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: Nixon lost by a very narrow margin. Had it been 161 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 2: today's world, I imagine you would have gone to litigation. 162 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: But it was not the way things were done in 163 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: those days, and mister Nixon did not want to tear 164 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: the party apart, especially seeing a long decade it turned 165 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: out to be a very very long decade of resistance 166 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: to so we had Bolshevism and the Cold War horrors 167 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: of machinations of communism. We wanted America to be united, 168 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: even if it was united under a mistake. And by 169 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: the way, I don't think Kennedy was a terrible present. 170 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: Certainly not pro Communists, no doubt about that in my mind. 171 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: But mister Nixon was a real patriot. He sacrificed his 172 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: career to keep America united, and boy did he do 173 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: a good job. But then the Democrats and the media 174 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: undid it and turned everything to a swirling mass of 175 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: garbage and lies. And by the way, sure, let's a speaker, 176 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: I like calling you that. It's amazing. It's been fifty 177 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: years roughly a little more actually, since the Watergate breaking. 178 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: I still don't understand what it is that the Watergate 179 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: burglars were supposed to have done. I still don't understand 180 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 2: what mister Nixon's crimes and misdemeanors were that got him 181 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: thrown out of office. I still don't underst and that, 182 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: and I was pretty darn close to it all. I 183 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: don't understand what he did wrong. 184 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: Before we get that far down the road when he 185 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: comes back having lost and then lost the governorship of California. 186 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: He only comes back in sixty eight, wins the nomination, 187 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: and was always remarkably popular with the party base. Your 188 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: dad ends up through his ties to Milton Friedman, writing economics, 189 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: material for the campaign and then ends up working with 190 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: the Nixon administration. But apparently your dad actually turned to 191 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: you and asked whether or not he ought to be 192 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: actively involved in the Nixon campaign given everything else that 193 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: had gone on, and you were adamantly in favor. 194 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 2: Adamantly. I mean, I remember my father saying, well, I mean, 195 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: he's involved with this guy, Murray Chautner, and he does 196 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: not have the best reputation. And I don't know, do 197 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: I want to be involved with a guy who was 198 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: involved with Murray Schatner. And I said, sir, he's our guy. 199 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: He's our guy. I mean, you may not have all 200 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 2: perfect friends, but I don't think anybody's running against is 201 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: going to have all perfect prints. Bear in mind, mister speaker, 202 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: I loved Hubert Humphrey. He was a great, great man 203 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: and a kind of man you don't see in the 204 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 2: Democrat Party anymore. A thorough progressive in the sense that 205 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: he really wanted full civil rights for African Americans and 206 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: other people of color. But he was not anti American. 207 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 2: He did not slap America in the face. He really 208 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: believed in America. He was a kind of person that 209 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: you would be proud of a little tiny note about 210 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: Hubert Humphrey. There very few of us, i'm sure, who 211 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: are involved in this event right now that we're doing, 212 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: who know that Hubert Humphrey from Minnesota was one of 213 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: the only senators who owned a home and what was 214 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: not a restricted neighborhood. Of restricted neighbors in Washington in 215 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 2: those days were a standard upper class neighborhood which did 216 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: not admit Jews, and mister Humphrey purposely chose to live 217 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: on the street in Chevy Chase. It was not a 218 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: particularly fancy street at all, and they chose to live 219 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 2: there because it was not segregated against Husuh Blacks. No. 220 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: I think comfort in that since lived out his beliefs. 221 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: I think he was a very sincere person. 222 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 2: He was a genuinely great man, genuinely great man. 223 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: But in this period, you're a student of Yale, but 224 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: your dad invites you to a prayer service at the 225 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: White House, I mean, what was that like? 226 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: It was great? It was great. I mean, first of all, 227 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: I had and still have an incredibly beautiful, charming, friendly 228 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: wife with a winning smile, as one might say, so 229 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: I was very proud to be there. I had been 230 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: to a number of Christian services before, because my best 231 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: friend as a child was a fellow who's prominent in 232 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: Montgomery County politics named David Skull, and this had been 233 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 2: to many Christian services. Didn't frighten me at all, and 234 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: I went to the service. I forget who I heard speak, 235 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 2: but I think it might have been his Majesty, one 236 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: might say, at the top of the Christian pyramid, possibly 237 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: Billy Graham himself. I'm not sure that singing was George 238 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: Beverly Shay, a great play singer of gospel. Anyway, as 239 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: we were leaving, mister Nixon was shaking hands with his guests. 240 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: The service had been held in the east rim of 241 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: the White House. One of his guests was an incredibly beautiful, 242 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 2: astoundingly beautiful woman I could tell roughly my age, and 243 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: that was his daughter, Julian, and she smiled at me. 244 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: She was very friendly to me. She's told me that 245 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: she understood from her father that I was a great 246 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: fan of dogs. She had several dogs. What I want 247 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: sometime to join her and take the dogs for a 248 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: walk out on the back lawn of the White House. 249 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: Not I said, yes, you've got anything you want? How high? 250 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: And I just She just won my heart over in 251 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: that instant, and I've never except for my wife, It's 252 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: a saint, a living, breathing saint. I've never met a 253 00:13:52,840 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: woman that I admired more than Julia Eisenow. She's just brilliant, loyal, kind, forgiving. 254 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: If you had to draw a picture of the perfect Christian, 255 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: it would be Julie Nixon Eisenarer. 256 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,239 Speaker 1: That's quite a tribute. 257 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: I love her. I love her. 258 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: You end up coming out of law school, you know, 259 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: and then you end up working in the Knicks administration. 260 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: Yes, I did. I wound up working two places. I worked. 261 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: Wound up working in the so called War on Poverty, 262 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: which was the part I was in. Was headed by 263 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: a guy named Terry Lenzner who became a kind of 264 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: controversial figure. But I also worked for a man at 265 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: the White House named Bob Brown, who was in charge 266 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: of monitoring progress in minority affairs, and it was another 267 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: wonderful guy, and I worked on collecting data about how 268 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: much progress did Nicks administration make desegregation and other efforts 269 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: to create a better life for African Americans. I'm extremely 270 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: happy I had the opportunity to do that. We learned 271 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 2: a lot about how much progress the Knicks administration had 272 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: made in the desegregating schools. Place of work. His progress 273 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: was simply phenomenal, and nobody ever talked about it to 274 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: this day, You, sir, are never going to have another 275 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: person on your show. We'll talk about it. The way 276 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: I won. 277 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: You were really inside in that sense. 278 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: I was inside. I like to think that in a 279 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: small way, I was inside their family. The first time 280 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: I ever met Missus Nickson enough to have a conversation 281 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: with her, that is to say, Julie's mother, who was 282 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: at a birthday party for Julie down at Jack and 283 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: Helen Brown's house in Palace, Verdis. It was for Julie's birthday, 284 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: and Missus Brownd said to me, man, Julie has been 285 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: talking so much about you, it makes me want to 286 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: throw up. That's a very very good sense of you, 287 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 2: everber by Julie. Very good sense you were by Missus Dixon, 288 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: and I just felt wonderful about it. But I will 289 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: say that however much animust there was against mister Nixon 290 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: at that time, it's nothing compared to the animus against 291 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: the Republican Party and against conservatives generally in America. Right now. 292 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: In that sense, it really was a very very different era. 293 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: Very different are The adred viciousness of the agent was 294 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: just off the map. I can remember when I got 295 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: out of the White House and I wanted to write 296 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: something about my experiences there. There are plenty of people, 297 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: lots and lots of people who wanted to publish the book. 298 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: My agent was a very fine agent. I'm sure you 299 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: know him too, since you to know everybody, and I 300 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: think you do know everybody. His name was and is 301 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: David Oaps. He said, everybody would like to buy this book. 302 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: I got so busy working for Bob Partley and I 303 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 2: didn't have time to do it. But now I think 304 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: I would have a much harder time doing it. But 305 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: then there was a much freer press than there is now. 306 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: You're working at the heart of the White House, You're 307 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: working with all of the key players in that period. 308 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that was really quite a tribute to you 309 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: that so many of these folks were willing to rely 310 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: on you. That really one of the highest about as 311 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: higher level as you could get, and you end up 312 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: being brought in to be a speech writer. 313 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: Yes, and I was extremely extremely grateful for that. Opportunity, 314 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 2: and I just loved it. I can't tell you how 315 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: much I loved working at the White House, but sure, 316 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: mister speaker, bear in mind, as I mentioned before, my 317 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: father at that time was chairman of the President's Council 318 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: of Economic Advisors, and he worked two stories above me 319 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: in the Executive Office Building, and I could go up 320 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: and see him anytime I wanted, and I could have 321 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: lunch with him almost any day I wanted, And very 322 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: few young people get to have fairly young people get 323 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 2: to have lunch with their father every day or almost 324 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: every day. That was an an astounding gift from God 325 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: that I could have lunch with my father just about 326 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 2: every day. I mean, that's a very few people get 327 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: to have. 328 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: What was the process like working with Nixon and drafting 329 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: speeches for Nixon? He himself had been a significant writer 330 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: in his own right. 331 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: He was a very good writer. I would get a 332 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 2: call from my boss, who was at that time Dave Gergan, 333 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: and he would say, we want a speech on such 334 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 2: and such and suf Usually it would have something to 335 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 2: do with economics or law, because they knew I was 336 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: an economist and a lawyer of by training. And I 337 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 2: would go in and get briefed on what they wanted. 338 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: I would probably talk to someone else under mister Nixon, 339 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 2: but your truly are Dave Gergan, and they would tell 340 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 2: me what they wanted me to talk about it I 341 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: would be happy to do it. I rarely rarely required 342 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: much in the way of research. It was generally fairly 343 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: broad area of interest that I was dealing with, and 344 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: I would set to work on doing it. And I 345 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: was so sure. I was so happy to be there 346 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: doing it. I knew the end was going to happen. 347 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 2: I knew we were going to it kicked out, and 348 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: I was going to be really sad about it. But boy, 349 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: I was such a happy young man. You can't imagine. Well, 350 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: you were in the fight, well put, very well put, sir, 351 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 2: very well put, mister speaker. I was in the fight, 352 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: and I felt great about it. I felt absolutely great 353 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 2: about it. 354 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: You know, Ben, I'm curious, given all your experiences, what 355 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: is one of your fond memories of interacting with President Nixon. 356 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: Well, several times when I was walking down the halls 357 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: with the Executive Wolvish Building, which is a beautiful old 358 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: building with the marble floors, and I was walking down 359 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: there and ran into mister Nixon. I think he was 360 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 2: with ron Ziegler and I was with my father, and 361 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 2: we were on our way over to the White House 362 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: mess which was where the high ranking people like my 363 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: father could have lunch. And mister Nixon asked what we 364 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: were doing, and I told him. I said, would you 365 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: like to join us? And he said no, he said, 366 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: I'm too busy to do that. He said, but do you 367 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: ever think how lucky you are to be able to 368 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: have lunch with your And I said, I think of 369 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 2: it every day. I'm allowed to do it, so I 370 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: can hardly tell you how much it means I'm allowed 371 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 2: to do this. I said to mister Nixon, what would 372 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: it have meant to you to have been able, when 373 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 2: you are already out of school, to have had lunch 374 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: with your father pretty much anytime you wanted. And he 375 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: looked at me and he took my arm. He took 376 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: my arm, I remember, he took my wrists, and he said, 377 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: it would have meant the world. 378 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: In this new book of yours, though you really focus on. 379 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: I think something which is very undervalued about Nixon, and 380 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: that is the degree to which he consciously worked at 381 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: ending wars and at creating environments of peace rather than conflict. 382 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about how you concluded that you 383 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: wanted to write about Nixon and his role trying to 384 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: make peace. 385 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 2: Well, mister Nixon said to me, and I think too 386 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 2: many others as well, that he wanted to leave behind 387 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 2: a generation of peace. Bear in mind, we had had 388 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: a lot of wars in the post war period, and 389 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: mister Nixon said he was going to leave behind a 390 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: generation of piece, or at least that was his goal. 391 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 2: People scoffed and thought that that was just blow hard bragging. No, 392 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 2: he meant it, and he did it. I think if 393 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: he were a president right now he would be able 394 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: to brag about peace between certain factions in them at least. 395 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: But mister Nixon was very, very, very pessimistic about the 396 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: Palestinians very I mean, he respected Arabs, he respected the 397 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: people who wanted and people of any ethnicity who wanted 398 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: peace and who wanted to work hard. But for people 399 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 2: who wanted to struggle for conflict and for war and 400 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: for death, he had no respect for them at all, 401 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: and he wanted to see them gone off the face 402 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: of the earth. And largely he got to see that done. 403 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 2: He certainly did not expect there to be what happened 404 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: in this past summer, whereby the Israelis were caught completely napping, 405 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: a gigantic catastrophy of military intelligen a catastrophe on a 406 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 2: scale that's maybe never been equaled in the United States before, 407 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: and certainly, well, I don't know, I hope it never 408 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: is equaled again. Nixon liked Pa. His mother had said them, 409 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 2: I told you. Maybe I didn't tell you as I 410 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 2: think I told us. I'm losing my mind because I 411 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: get very emotional when I talk about Nixon. I really 412 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: loved you, and I didn't just like him. I loved him, 413 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: he has said. His mother had said to him, you 414 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: will someday have the opportunity to do something for the 415 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: children of God Israel, and you will have a chance 416 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: to do something dramatic for them. Please do not walk 417 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: away from that chance. 418 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: And I think it's fair to say that, after the 419 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 1: shock of the surprise attack by Syria and Egypt against Israel, 420 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: that Nixon's willingness to intervene into airlift equipment and airlift 421 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: capabilities was decisive in the survival of Israel. I think 422 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: if he had not done that, they might have actually 423 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: lost I not. 424 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: Surely would have lost mister Speaker, but they could possibly 425 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: have lost Missus Mahir. I'm sure you'd know this story 426 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: very well, had out out our desk two suicide tablets 427 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 2: for her to take. But she also was apparently prepped 428 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: to use the Adam momb against the Arabs if they 429 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: couldn't stop them. They had had a mom by then, 430 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: and they were preparing to use it against I don't 431 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: know whether Cairo or Damascus or where they're planning to 432 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 2: use it, but yes, they're planning to use it in 433 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: some extremely dramatic way. 434 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: Ironically. Of course, she was from Milwaukee, so you had 435 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: a prime minister of Israel who could speak in the 436 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: American idiom as a native because she was. And I 437 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: think that she had a pretty good relationship with Kissinger 438 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: and Kissinger in this period. Is you know Nixon's right. 439 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: Arm Well, I think mister Nixon had mixed feelings of 440 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 2: bout mister Kissinger. He obviously admired him a great deal, 441 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 2: trusted him a great deal. He made some quite funny 442 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: jokes about the one I remember and most is he 443 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: was talking about how Kissinger was complaining about somebody being 444 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,239 Speaker 2: a self promoter, and mister Nixon laughed and laughed. Can 445 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 2: you imagine Henry calling someone else a self promoter? And 446 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: of course he was totally right about that. Sure, this 447 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: was a man who said what he believed. He called 448 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 2: balls and strikes, as a very close friend of mine said, 449 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 2: he called balls and strikes, and he really wanted there 450 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: to be a generation piece, and he wanted to be 451 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: left in his hands there would be a generation piece, 452 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 2: and it was. And his accomplishments along those lines were 453 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 2: astronomically wonderful. 454 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: It was interesting to me. It team totally out of 455 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: the blue. I would not have ever think of thought 456 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: of this myself. One of the most complicated and difficult 457 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: things you got involved with involved the Nixon family taxes, 458 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: which I think is just fascinating. How did that happen? 459 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 2: Well, the people at the White House, especially Dave Gergan 460 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: and his boss Great Price, I think, had a somewhat 461 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: exaggerated idea of my ability. And one night we all 462 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: worked very late at night, and one night, just before 463 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: I was going home, Gergon and Price gainery and said 464 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: that we have a really difficult task for you. Look 465 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: here in this room. There's a very large concert room, 466 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: and there are several good sized banker's boxes whatever were called. 467 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: It had tons and tons of files in them, and 468 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: Gergen said, these boxes contained very important confidential documents do 469 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: not show that anyone under any circumstances period. And I 470 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 2: would look at them, see what you can do with 471 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: them to make them come out all right, and mister 472 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 2: Nich helping them to get out of it. Let's say, 473 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: I'm getting out of this. And I started reading reading, 474 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: and I saw some drastically wrong. It happened mister Nixon 475 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: had been given advice by a man who I'm sure 476 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 2: was a great man and a wonderful tax lawyer. But 477 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: he had been told that he could take a deduction 478 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 2: for gifts to the US archives of his presidential papers 479 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 2: and documents that he had worked on when he was president. 480 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: And in fact that was not so. He could not 481 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 2: take a deduction for that, and therefore those deductions were invalid, 482 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: and a large, large, large part of mister Nixon's income 483 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 2: for tax urpces was made to be taxable. And this 484 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: was totally shocked mister Nixon, and he was plumbos and 485 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: I remember very well and his farewell addressed the boy 486 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 2: was down. Wow, was that a powerful event? Mister Nixon said, 487 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: right now, I trying to figure out a way to 488 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: pay my tax And he said it in a way 489 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: which made it sound like he really mentioned it. I 490 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: think he did me. I don't think he was ever 491 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 2: a wealthy man, maybe not even a well to do man, 492 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: but it was caught totally flat footed by having to 493 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: pay those taxes. And I I think any one of us, 494 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 2: even now, where money is very considerably devalued, would have 495 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 2: a hard time if suddenly he or she were presented 496 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: with a tax bill of a couple of million dollars 497 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 2: more than he or she thought it was worthcoming. 498 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me, though, that you went through it. 499 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: You rendered your best, honest judgment, and if anything, it 500 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: seemed to strengthen Nixon's belief in you, Rather than him 501 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: getting mad at you for telling him he could not 502 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: do something which is going to cost him a lot 503 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: of money. He actually, I think, appreciated your honesty in 504 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: sticking to the rules. 505 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: I think he did, and I don't know. Something got 506 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: very messed up there because I passed on a memo 507 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: to mister Nixon. I think through Ray Price saying that 508 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: he used to have these two lawyers that aren't loan 509 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 2: to you from the bureaucracy, and they have told you 510 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: that you're not going to have to make tax i. 511 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: With all due respect, they're wrong. You are going to 512 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: have to make tax I. Think you'd better take this 513 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 2: to an attorney in the private sector and not to 514 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: a government bureaucrat, although some government bureaucrats are fine people. 515 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: And God almighty, if I were in Nix's shoes and 516 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 2: all the burdens pressing upon me and mister Nixon and 517 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: they were presented of a bill for several million dollars, 518 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: I didn't think I was going to have to pay, 519 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 2: I would have been absolutely beside myself, absolutely insane. 520 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: But I think it's also a comment on how good 521 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: a lawyer you were. And remember Nixon himself, between vice 522 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: president and then getting nominated eight years later, had handled 523 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases and was considered, I think, an extraordinarily 524 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: good lawyer in his own right. So I suspect he 525 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: read your memo. 526 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: It was and is brilliant. 527 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: So I suspect you read your memo as a fellow 528 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: lawyer and thought this is the fact, And I think 529 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: that's important. 530 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: I'm afraid that I wished I had been able to 531 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: come up with something, but I just couldn't. I racked 532 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: my world brain, a young brain, and I couldn't, just 533 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 2: couldn't think of it. And I remember calling Dave Gergan 534 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: from my tiny, tiny, tiny house in Georgetown saying, Dave, 535 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: I just can't come up with anything. And he said, oh, 536 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: now you're Benstein, your Herbstein's son. You can come up 537 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: with anything. And I said, Sir, I can't this time. 538 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: I just can't. So i'd like to. And I had 539 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: done some other work for him either one of the 540 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 2: accusations and didn't matter. I could not beat the system 541 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: at It's not that. 542 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: System one of the stories that I'd never knew about. 543 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: But you did, in fact get one specific impeachment article 544 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: dropped because you were able to convince them that they 545 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: were just wrong. Yeah, I think it's the only one 546 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: that was dropped out of the whole thing. 547 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 2: Sure, I am really humbled by the fact that you 548 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: read my book so carefully. I really really am humbled. 549 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: Because I've published a heck of a lot of books, 550 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: I rarely rarely get the comments from people who actually 551 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: have read them and read them carefully enough to understand 552 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: what was going on. And I'm humbled as I say, Yeah, 553 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: there was one item where it was alleged by the 554 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: impeachment committee that mister Nixon had taken a bribe from 555 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 2: a big hotel company where we used to then call conglomerate, 556 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: to somehow get various tax charges against him dropped. And 557 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: in fact that was all made up. He didn't hadn't 558 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,239 Speaker 2: done anything even slightly even slightly illegal about that. So 559 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 2: he was in the clear and helped a lot in 560 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 2: terms of my writing about that. He really wasn't clear. 561 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: How did you feel when you watched his resignation speech 562 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: and there was a very emotional moment. 563 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: I felt horrible. I felt absolutely horrible. I mean just 564 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: incredibly horrible. I was there in the East room where 565 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 2: mister Nixon was giving his farewell address to White House staff. 566 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: My mother and father were sitting in the front row. 567 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: Because mister Nixon knew that the Stein family didn't just 568 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 2: like him, weren't just his employees. We loved him, We 569 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 2: would have done anything for him. And my mother was 570 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 2: sobbing on a scale I've never seen her sob even now, 571 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 2: just drives me insane to think about it. I felt terrible. 572 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: I felt terrible. I felt terrible. I feel terrible. I 573 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 2: just felt terrible. I thought we were throwing away the 574 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: best president we were ever going to get in my lifetime. 575 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: And well, those tears were tears of sorrow, grief, pain 576 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: as a really pear tears, tears, tears, tears. There a 577 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: lot of tears in the Stein family when we're talking 578 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 2: about Richard M. Nixon. 579 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: Interestingly, Nixon leaves you work briefly in the Ford White House, 580 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: then you go to the Wall Street Journal. But it's 581 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: really a transition where you end up in Hollywood. Now, 582 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: how does that happen? 583 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's a little more complicated than that. I went 584 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 2: to work at the Wall Street Journal. Bob Barley liked 585 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: my writing about the political content of the media very 586 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 2: very much. No one else is doing this. I'd like 587 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: you to hire you to do it. The pay was miserable, 588 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 2: I mean, really terrible, but I did it anyway, and 589 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: they sent me out to Hollywood quite a lot to 590 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 2: interview people in the business, powerful powerful, big time studio heads, 591 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: big time agents, big time I guess, let's see, I 592 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 2: guess if there's such a thing a big time writer, 593 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: and I learned a lot about how Hollywood worked, that 594 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: Hollywood really was a one trick pony in terms of politics, 595 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: that people in Hollywood who were running Hollywood really were consistently, 596 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 2: always very left wing people, and that wasn't a joke, 597 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 2: that wasn't just a fantasy of US conservatives. It was 598 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: really true. And I broke my heart that this position 599 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: I had had and how left wing Hollywood was turned 600 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: out to be completely factual. 601 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: Clearly, it's a city that's overwhelmingly dominated by the left, 602 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: and I think that's had a long term impact on 603 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: all of American culture because the the world we operate 604 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: within is a world shaped in large part by people 605 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: who are very far on the left. I think you're 606 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: high point in the sense in your interaction with Hollywood 607 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: is the role of the economics teacher in Ferris Buelersdell. 608 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: Did you ever see yourself as an actor? Is the 609 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: guy showing up in a movie? 610 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 2: Never? Ever. I had had one small part in a 611 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: movie called The Wildlife, where I played a manager of 612 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 2: a surplus store. It was a sequel to a movie 613 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 2: called Fast Times at Ridgemond High. But I never thought 614 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 2: I would become a well known acting Sir. I have 615 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 2: been in something like thirty three movies, hundreds of TV shows, 616 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 2: and thousands if you count my own quiz show. I 617 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 2: had a quite successful quiz show on Comedy Central called 618 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 2: Wynn Benstein's Money, and I've done a lot of acting. 619 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 2: I liked it a lot, very very lot. I don't 620 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: know how. I mean, God has been so good to 621 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: me in so many ways. Is it's just amazing. With 622 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 2: one of the main ways, I'd say, the main ways 623 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 2: letting me be an American. Secondly be helping me have 624 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 2: my wife. The world's fine as being, and third would 625 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 2: be letting me be in America. I mean, I just 626 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: every morning I went to come, I say, I'm in America. 627 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 2: I cannot believe I'm in America. It's wonderful. It's just wonderful. 628 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: You totally validate my decision many many years ago to 629 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: become a historian rather than a social scientist, because I 630 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: always believed that life occurred in ways you could not 631 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: figure out just by drawing lines on the chart, And 632 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: if you think about your life and how it's evolved, 633 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: you could never have sat. 634 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 2: Down and planned it not a billion years. 635 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: So given the extraordinary range of your experience. If some 636 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: young person walked up to you and said, what is 637 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: your advice for how I should live my life? What 638 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: would you tell them? 639 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 2: I would say, study something serious, as we just said, 640 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 2: like history, our economics. Study how to learn to think, 641 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,439 Speaker 2: and that would be law school. I'd say I learned 642 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 2: more about how to think and analyze situations in law 643 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 2: school than I did anywhere else. And save your money 644 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 2: so that you're not always desperate about money. Go forward 645 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: from there, but work, learn habits of hard work, and 646 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: learn habits of not taking a word of the media 647 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 2: for anything. And learn habits of bucking and trand don't 648 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 2: expect that the trend is going to carry you trand 649 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 2: will not carry you very far. The trend is your 650 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 2: friend if you tell the truth. 651 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: Okay, I want to thank you for joining me. 652 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it so much. 653 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: New Well, I've just learned so much more about your 654 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: diverse life and your extraordinary range of skills. Having you 655 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: join me on news World is terrific. And I think 656 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: that our listeners are going to be very encouraged to 657 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: get a copy of your new book, The Peacemaker. Nixon, 658 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: The Man President and my Friend. This has been just terrific. 659 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: Ben, You're very kind. I cannot tell you how much 660 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it. Thank you very much. 661 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Ben Stein. You can get 662 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book The Peacemaker, Nixon, 663 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: The Man, President and My Friend on our show page 664 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingrid three 665 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our 666 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 667 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team at Gingrid 668 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll 669 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five 670 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: stars and give us a review so others can learn 671 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld concern 672 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: up for my three free weekly columns at gingrichtree sixty 673 00:36:48,360 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.