WEBVTT - Politics is Broken. V Spehar Knows How To Fix It. 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.040 Ola, I'm called. 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:02.960 Ramos and I'm Pas. 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.000 And this is the moment juntos. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:18.639 George cheesy George. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.240 Well, I live. Yeah, But it's interesting. 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.000 I mean, it's it's not only something that I always 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.080 wanted to do, but it's something that we couldn't have 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:28.440 done just a few years ago. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.040 I think when when you think of this now, you 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.760 and I were doing a video podcast in twenty twenty five. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.280 I think this moment does two things for me. No, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.040 it it's a reflection of the way in which the 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.520 media landscape is completely completely transforming. And this is something 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.040 that I would have never thought we would have been doing, 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:48.640 say ten five years ago. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.000 We were thinking in different terms. We were thinking, oh, 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.360 let's do together a TV show, but not this. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.880 Not this. And I want to tell you about two 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.280 stats that I keep thinking about. I read them the 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.120 other day. So here's the first one that really really 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.760 sticks with me. I am and I'm quoting. Okay, So 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.399 this is according to Oxford's Reuter's Institute for the Study 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.120 of Journalism, for the first time ever, social media is 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:17.040 overtaking television as American's top news source. I mean, what 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:17.800 does that say to you? 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.200 Well, I mean I still read the newspaper. You're rever. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.240 You're probably one of the only people that still does that. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.440 Yeah, even when I'm on the planes and then I 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.240 just bring my copy, people look at me and say 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.720 who's who's this person or nobody's doing that. 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.000 But the transition is right there. You're absolutely right. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.120 I mean twenty years ago, I remember very vividly, of course, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.240 like I grew up with so many Latinos across the 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.720 country tuning into your newscast every single evening, watching you 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.680 on television, and that was one of the main ways 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.640 that the Spanish speaking Latino community in this country would 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.720 be informed, not through social media, not through TikTok or x, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:58.920 but through cable television. 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.480 So remember people telling me, oh, I watched the news, 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.520 and then people would come years later and say, a 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.440 decade later, say well, my mom watches the news, and 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.760 now it ended up being my grandma is watching. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:14.760 So that's that's the difference. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.600 Meanwhile, your generation, you were going somewhere else it is. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.799 But I, you know, I keep thinking about this as 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.520 you and I are doing this new project, like, how 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.520 has that transition been for you know, going from you know, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.359 being this big voice and legacy media to now jumping 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:32.360 into the video podcast. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.480 It hasn't been easy, but either you do it or 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.399 you perish. That's and if you want to continue being 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:41.040 a journalist and being relevant, either you move with a 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:45.280 new technology, this new shift, or you disappear. This is 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.400 this is maybe my second wave. The first one when 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.639 I first survived in the United States nineteen eighty three, 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.520 there were only fifteen million latinos and I and I 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.320 feel that I was writing that wave, the LATINX wave 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.519 lao la latina. Right now weur sixty five million latinos. 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.280 So I started with that wave and we went all 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.000 the way to the top. But then something changed. And 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.960 this new wave has to do with technology in which 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.919 we're putting a side traditional media, legacy media and going 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:18.200 towards social media and being online and digital. And if 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.840 I don't ride that wave, I'm going to disappear. So 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.960 it hasn't been easy, but this is the only way 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.440 to do independent journalism nowadays. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.960 And it's not easy, you know, especially when you think 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.440 about this idea, know that this digital wave that we're 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:38.320 writing on also coincides within a larger socio political environment 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.280 where you know, the top people in power question facts 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.839 undermine history, and so this of course changes the way 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.760 that we as journalists can can operate. And I think 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.440 for me, when I think of you, like you were 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.400 able to gain people's trust and credibility. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:56.640 So they saw me every day, now they saw you 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:57.120 every day. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.520 But I think in the cable news olds school television environment, 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.320 you were able to do something so important, right, which 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.480 is gain people's trust. I think for us in the 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.240 digital world, gaining credibility is such a hard thing today. 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.040 Yeah, yeah, I think I agree with you. But then 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.040 how do you gain credibility. It's just a repetition, day 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:21.760 after day, just coming to their house and then you 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.600 tell them something, and then the next day then say, okay, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.840 he was right. He was right, and then happened year 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.919 after year after year. But I think credibility has to 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.440 do with, for me, with two things. One to report 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.760 reality as it is, not as you wish it would be, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.359 so people would know that you're giving them the facts. 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:40.920 And then if you make a mistake, and I made 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.640 tons of mistakes, you simply correct them. But the second, 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.200 the second element, has to do with challenging those who 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.000 are in power, questioning those who are in power. Many 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.560 journalists don't do that anymore. And if you don't do that, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.479 then people don't trust you. And that's why I think 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:01.360 there's a crisis of credibility many journalists nowadays. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.039 And I think that's at the heart of today's episode now, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.280 not only what it means to navigate journalism in this 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.040 digital era, but also what it means to question those 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.320 in power as journalists. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:12.440 No. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.919 One of the things that I think we will be 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.440 talking about is what doesn't mean to be a journalist? No, 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.320 how has journalism involved and what does that look like today? 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.360 And how technology is changing absolutely everything, including yeah, I'm 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.840 not reading the newspaper. Coming up after our break, our 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.000 guest is a viral TikTok creator named by Time magazine 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.719 as one of the top one hundred creators to look 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.360 out for in twenty twenty five and considered to be 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.240 one of the main news sources for millennials in gen 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:43.560 Z in the US. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.719 So in their bio you'll actually find that they describe 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:50.840 themselves as both an independent journalist and an advocate, and 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:52.960 so can both of those terms go together. That's one 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.560 of the questions we'll have for our guests. We'll be 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.839 talking to TikTok creator and influencer VS Spear, host of 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:06.160 Under the Desk News Coming right up, gay V, Welcome 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:06.679 to the moment. 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.440 Thanks for having me excited to be here. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.680 Thank you so much for joining us. So I'll tell 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:13.880 you one of the reasons why you're one of the 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.000 first guests that we wanted to talk to. So, the 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.839 last time I saw UV, you and I were in 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.240 a television studio, right, we were both doing an MSNBC hit, 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.919 and to give listeners a little bit of context, we 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.520 were sitting in a round table with other journalists lights cameras. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.320 But in that moment, I remember thinking that perhaps you, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.240 with your voice and your platform and as a single influencer, 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.479 maybe you have more power than an entire news station. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.120 And I mean this sincerely, right, And so that made 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.680 me think about where your journey starts now Under the Desk. Obviously, 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:55.159 your program has been incredible. It's really, really, really grown. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.080 I mean, in the last couple even months, it significantly. 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:02.080 You have almost four million TikTok four million, almost two 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.720 hundred and forty million likes on TikTok alone. I mean, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.279 people even consider be an Internet celebrity. I'm jealous. 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.200 That's why we invited you. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.600 But truly, like when when you think of this journey, 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.000 like how do you get started? 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.760 So at the time when the pandemic hit and I 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.280 started making tiktoks, I was working for the James Beard Foundation, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.320 and I was doing a lot of our like director 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.360 of impact work. So I was making cooking videos, talking 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.080 about how to apply for the PPP loan, how to 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:29.800 get the shuttered venue license. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:30.640 Like how to do whatever. 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.280 And then it was January sixth and I was working 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.960 with the Tennessee Veterans Association to talk about how we 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.480 were going to get food to vets who were unhoused, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.239 and just above my computer, I remember perfectly, I saw 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.480 them in the capital on January sixth, and having been 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.240 a caterer in the Capitol, I was like, Oh, you're 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.880 not supposed to be in those hallways, like that's that's 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.400 not right. And that's when I started to realize something 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.840 was wrong that day. So I was dressed that day 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.440 for the VA's appointment, So I had like a suit 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.440 on from the top and I had on like Nike shorts. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:01.760 On the bottom. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.760 So I like dove under my desk just like out 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.560 of nowhere and started explaining the twenty fifth Amendment and 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.040 what it means, because Trump wasn't calling in the National Guard, 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.360 and I was like, Michael Pence, you could be president 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:15.320 for fourteen days. This could be your one chance to 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.520 be president, and this is what it means. And it 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.600 went super viral and then my friend Randy was like, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.560 you better get back under that desk and tell them 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:23.240 what's happening now. 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:24.520 So we sort of had it go and it's like. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.600 A bit just between me and my pals that night, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.120 and then the next day came, and the next day came, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.760 and then people started calling me under the desk news, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.480 which was not my name was like v Spear on 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.440 the channel and they were like under the desk news, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:38.160 what's happening now? 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:38.920 And I was like okay. 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:40.800 So then I just kept doing it, and then it 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.079 got to a point where I was explaining civics and 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:44.920 like what was going on with the government. That went 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:49.400 into Joe Biden's first hundred days, and then that was it. 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:53.280 It even with like here's what it's Monday night and 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.600 here's what happened. That's something that somebody said to me. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.080 They would write it in the comments. A lot of 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.240 under the desks and came directly from the audience who 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.640 was building it with me. One time, I didn't wear 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.720 my glasses and people are like, where's your glasses? And 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.280 I was like, okay, I guess the glasses are a brand. 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.480 And then they started sending me art of the glasses 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.880 and like ceramics of the glasses, and I was like, okay, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.880 I guess this is who I am forever. I tried 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:17.880 to change my hair one time. People did not like 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.040 that absolutely all right, who this is what it is. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.679 Something really interesting is that I've been a journalist for 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.600 decades and I when I introduced myself b I always say, yeah, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.240 I'm an immigrant and I'm an independent journalist. But I 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.520 can easily say I'm a journalist, even though sometimes now 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.480 I'm giving my point of view, my opinion. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:39.600 That's something different. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.040 But I wonder if you think that what you're doing 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.680 is journalism because I've been doing my homework and sometimes 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.800 you do identify as a journalist and sometimes as an advocate. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:58.400 So is there something incomplete about saying that you are 0:09:58.440 --> 0:09:59.160 a journalist. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.000 I think this is the difference between traditional media and 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:03.600 new media. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:05.120 Is traditional media. 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.040 Used to go in clock in do your job and 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.520 go home, and then everything you did when you weren't 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.679 on television or writing your column was considered your personal time. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.480 For me, as a public figure, and in this world 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.480 of new media, I am content for people twenty four 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:23.120 hours a day. Whether I'm doing straight journalism like let's 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.880 say what we do on the subject with original investigative stuff, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.160 or whether I'm doing the news at seven o'clock saying hey, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.880 here's what happened today, or whether I'm showing up to 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.760 a no Kings protest, all of that is considered under 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.040 the desk news. There is no separation. There's no clocking 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.000 in or clocking out for a new media figure the 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.440 way that there was for media figures in the past, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.160 and so I think that can be a little blurring 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.319 of the lines and confusing to people. And it's why 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.200 I've been so upfront about the fact that, like you 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.400 are getting my whole self every night. When I do 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.400 the news, you're just getting the news. But when I'm 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.120 doing something in the daytime, or I'm doing something in 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.920 my personal life, those are all just showing you the 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.320 completeness of me as a whole person. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.640 Yeah, Because I think maybe the discussion that Devid has 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.480 to do all and be with the fact if we 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.520 have to be objective, and the difference between being objective 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.920 and being neutral, do you do you feel the need 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.200 to be neutral or quite the contrary, there are times 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.520 since which you absolutely have to take a stand. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.240 So the thing about me is I've always presented myself 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.600 as American first, like that is who I am first, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.520 and I'm very proud to be American in recognizing a 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.400 lot of the flaws that this country has, but also 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.360 recognizing that Americans, the people that I care so much about, 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.200 are in a different situation than we've been in the past. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.480 So as far as objectivity or neutrality go, that is 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.400 not something that I prioritize because I think in this 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.880 particular political environment there are people who are trying to 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.360 make facts not facts. They are trying to negotiate with you, 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.880 should trans people exist, not what does the actual law say. 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.559 So I think in trying to maintain objectivity or neutrality, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.160 it tends to favor the oppressor. And at a point 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.400 where the wealth gap is where it is, where the 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.280 opportunity gap is where it is, and where the people 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.760 in authoritative power right now are creating alternative facts and narratives. 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:14.960 It's very difficult to try and say well and on 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.440 the other side, because there's a lot of bad faith 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.400 people coming into these conversations in ways that don't allow 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.439 me to be objected or neutral. 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.000 We have all these these questions about naturality, so at 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.439 the end, just just to be. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.160 To be correct. Are you a journalist? 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.640 I think I am now, And I honestly really struggled 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.559 with this for a long time. So originally I used 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.800 to call myself content creator right when I first started, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.320 and then I called myself a news communicator. And then 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.800 when I started, my line for me was do I 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.440 create original from the ground up journalism, like capital j journalism. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.280 And in the last year and a half we have 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.640 done that, and that's when I started to consider myself 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.040 a true journalist, sort of like I didn't consider my 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.080 chef myself chef until I ran expo. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.560 It's like you're a cook until you're a chef. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.760 You know, but then somebody says to you, you're not chef, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.760 and you're like, I am JEF. And I think that 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.160 came when I started doing original journalism. But I think 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.080 that's my line for me. I don't know that that's 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.080 the line for everybody to consider themselves a journalist or not. 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.760 I also publish my funding and I also have a 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.720 code of ethics that's published, and I think those things 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.360 are all important to calling yourself a journalist if you 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.160 want to pull in that historic trust and seriousness that 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:24.280 that industry represents. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:25.880 And that was actually just going to flip the question 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.559 back to my dad, right, because I think no, Because 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.760 I think, I mean, I think many people also have 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:33.720 the question for you. I would even say for me, 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.200 I think particularly when it comes to certain issues and 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.240 we'll get to this in just a second, that are personal. 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.880 Know that you can't really detach yourself from in your 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.240 case in immigrants now you like you said, you're an 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:49.680 immigrant first, vas an American first. We two are queer people, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.040 and this leads me v to I think something that 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.880 is personal for both of us as journalists, as people 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:02.199 in LGBTQ community, which is Gaymary. Now, obviously you posted 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.520 a video that was very important on your socios about 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.760 gay marriage, and just for context for our listeners, if 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.240 you don't know, by now, the Supreme Court is expected 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.040 to consider whether or not no. They will consider a 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.439 case this fall where they are being asked to explicitly 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.720 overturn gay marriage. And so I want to hear this 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.200 video that you posted really quickly, and then i'll take 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:24.760 your You're taken just a second. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:25.320 Let's hear it. 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.400 Yes, the Supreme Court has been officially asked to reconsider 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.800 the legality of Obergefel v. Hodges, the landmark Supreme Court 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.040 decision that made gay marriage federally legal. You knew this 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.160 was going to happen, and that's why a couple months 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.120 ago I partnered with a lawyer named Angela Giampolo, and 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.040 she goes by at your gay lawyer on TikTok and Instagram, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.080 and she put together a plan. It's basically the nine 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.040 documents that gay couples need to file to help recreate 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:57.360 all of the rights inherent to marriage in a partnership document. 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.800 So v this is where I thing no, we as 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:06.200 journalists inevitably have to blur the lines sometimes, is I'm curious, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.640 First of all, how did your followers take this information? 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:10.960 What's their reaction to this? 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.880 So the tricky part about the attack on gay marriage 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.240 is that they've been trying to do this since it 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.160 got passed. I mean, this has been going on since 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.040 twenty fifteen, and as a gay person and as an 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.000 advocate for gay rights, I have been involved in this 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.840 so deeply from the behind the scenes level of what 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.680 are we going to do if they overturn Obergafell for 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.680 literally ten years. So when something comes up that the 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.080 news is reporting, like, oh, the Supreme Court may hear 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.160 Kim Davis's case that seeks to overturn Obergafell, I know 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:40.880 in my heart and soul that's probably not going to 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:42.840 be the one that does it. But I also know 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.360 that there have been movements behind the scenes to try 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.080 and requalify what even qualifies as marriage and sort of 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.640 discount gay marriages in that way. And that's the language 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.520 that we hear from the right of marriages only between 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.720 one man and one woman meeting. Marriages between two men 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.040 or two women would no longer meet the burden of 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.120 proof required to be CLASSI marriage and then to have 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:05.080 those rights. So when this started coming around again, I 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.960 thought to myself, we have to have something for people 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.040 to do. We can't just bring our hands and be 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:11.440 afraid that it's going to happen. 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.680 What can we do to one. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.840 Ensure that gay marriage doesn't get overturned, but if it 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.760 does protect people's inherent rights during the gap, because we 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.040 know that we'll win the right back a different way maybe, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:24.640 But what do we do during the gap? And that's 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.480 when I worked with this lawyer to come up with 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.480 this thing called the Nine Documents, which has been very 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.000 helpful to people, because at the end of the day, 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.040 what is marriage. It's a spiritual connection. Sure, you could 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.840 always still have that it's representing love. You will always 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.680 have that. It is a civil contract between partners that 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.880 is filed with the state. And so I was like, okay, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.440 that's the part that we could not have. Again, what 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.320 are those rights? And it really comes down to a 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.360 state planning child's care and property ownership and stuff. And 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.880 so I was like, all right, can we recreate those documents? 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.360 And she did, Have you taken those steps? Have you 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:56.000 and your partner? 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:58.840 We were actually the test case for it, so we 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.600 were one of the first people to go through it 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.360 and make sure that there was enough of it to 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:04.960 be able to publish this. So I've been working with 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.800 Angela for probably a year and a half now on 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.000 this and that's why we publish it back in June 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.920 before the Supreme Court. Thing with Kim Davis even came up. 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.720 I've gone through the process. We've gone back and forth 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.119 with this lawyer saying there's not enough here, there's not 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:17.760 enough there. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:19.520 You can do. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.520 The nine documents is what we put out at sort 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.240 of phase one, which is just between two people. Once 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.360 you start to involve children, well then you get into 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.840 sort of like adoption rights and different things. But there 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.399 are two non married adults that can adopt a child, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:37.280 so that's not necessarily a marriage right. And it really 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.880 made me feel better. But we have done the documents. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:49.160 You're so outspoken, obviously, you're unapologetically yourself, and you are 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.639 literally all over TikTok. I'm thinking of libs of taktok. Now, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:57.400 this anti LGBTQ, a extreme right account, and I'm wondering, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:02.080 have you ever been threatened by them or anyone? Oh? 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.719 Sure, I've been on it a couple of times. And 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.560 the thing that is interesting is she doesn't get juice 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:10.879 from me being on her account the way that certain 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.119 other people that she has tried to take out have. 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.760 And I think partly it's because even though I align 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.080 with leftist politics, Let's say there are a lot of 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.359 libertarians that sort of go into the other side of 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.040 the horseshoe her world, who when she will post about me, 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:26.720 they'll be like, eh. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.000 I kind of like the I learn a lot. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:28.679 Oh. 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.520 I mean, so, I think every time I've been over there, 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.600 it's been you know, the typical slurs, but people sort 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.280 of pass it along because I also don't engage back, 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.520 and I think that's what they want, is that fight 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:41.200 back and forth. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:43.160 So I've been over there a couple of times. 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.119 She threatened to sue me for defamation one time because 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.560 I said that right wing you know, lunatics like her 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.600 were responsible for some of the depression that trans and 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.359 LGBTQ youth feel because they're attacking their teachers and it 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.520 just makes the world feel unsafe and whatnot. 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.960 And she's like, I care so much about children. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:02.800 I was like, Okay, I would love to go to 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.600 Discovery with you if you really want to take this 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.959 about all the different ways that you've tried to, you know, 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.840 be a stochastic terrorist against the mental health of queer 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.160