WEBVTT - #401 Guest Host Ashley Fantz with Marvin Anderson 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.800 On a Saturday afternoon in July of nineteen eighty two, 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.320 a young woman was walking home in Ashland, Virginia, when 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.319 she was approached by a man on a bicycle. He 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.680 offered to walk her home. She said no and kept walking, 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.239 but a few minutes later she saw the man again. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.600 He attacked her and dragged her to a secluded wooded area, 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.400 then beat and raped her over and over. The woman 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.760 later described her attacker to police as a light skinned 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.479 black man with short, kinky hair. She also told them 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.760 something he'd said while assaulting her that he had had 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.760 quote other white girls. Officer Roy Anderson knew of only 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.080 one black man in town with a white girlfriend, eighteen 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.839 year old Marvin Anderson. When police picked Marvin up a 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:53.360 few days later, he insisted he hadn't attacked that woman. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.960 He had an alibi, and his mother and girlfriend backed 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.200 him up. But the victim picked out Marvin for I'm 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.880 a bunch of photos police presented to her, and she 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.360 also identified him in a live lineup of other suspects. 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.160 All of that sealed Marvin's fate with a jury, who 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.880 sent him to prison for an unbelievable two hundred and 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:33.800 ten years. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.080 wrongful Conviction. I'm Ashley Fontce, sitting in for Jason Flahm. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.280 I'm an investigative reporter who's cover crime and police misconduct 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:48.320 for decades. I've also reported extensively on police bungling rape investigations, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.920 and so I was very interested in this extraordinary and 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.640 outrageous story you're about to hear. I'd love for you 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.840 guys to introduce yourselves. Marvin, can you introduce yourself please? 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.040 Yes, thank you for having me. My name is Marvin Anderson. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.160 I was born and raised in Hanover County, Virginia, and 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:13.519 I spent fifteen years incarcerated and five years on parole 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.280 for a crime and did not commit Thanks Marvin. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.320 Vanessa can you introduce yourself please. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.920 My name is Vanessa Podcas. I'm the director of Special 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.160 Litigation at the Innocence Project in New York City, and 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.040 over the course of the past two decades, I've helped 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.400 exonerate over forty people nationwide. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.640 That's extraordinary, Vanessa. Thank you. Marvin. I've never been to 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:43.240 Hanover County. Take me back to your childhood in Hanover County. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.519 It was a close knit community and African American people. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.480 You know, everyone knew everyone. You know, my grandmother and 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.120 my great grandmother, all of them and my cousins were 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.000 all was you know, in the same community. And then 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.800 of course my mom and dad. I have three sisters. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.760 I had one brother who had died in an accident 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.920 car accident when I was incarcerated. We all was close, 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:05.760 you know. We had a nice big yard where we 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.640 could run around and play. We had dogs, chickens, a 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.280 lot of things that we did growing up or was like, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.680 you know, playing. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.360 Sports and what sport did you play? 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:20.440 Marvin, baseball, football, basketball, softball, a little bit of everything. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.320 You know, what sport didn't you play? 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:27.440 Marvin didn't play volleyball too much. I did run track, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.960 so it wasn't much that I didn't really do. And 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.760 at the time I didn't live too far from a 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.640 volunteer fire department, so I spent a lot of my 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.400 time there. At the age of ten, I was always 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.080 at the fire station, you know, doing something, washing trucks, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.640 watching the guys train. Not only was I learning something, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.320 but it was a means of keeping me out of trouble. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.720 So from that time I was able to join the 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.680 fire service at the age of thirteen. As a junior fireman, 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.600 I was able to train. I was to receive the 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.920 first set of five year I was able to ride 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.920 the trucks, learn how to pump the trucks, basically do 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.680 everything that adult farmer would do. The only thing that 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.720 I couldn't do was go into a burning building. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.560 What do you think drew you to want to be 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.799 a firefighter? It's a very specific and demanding job. 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.839 My mom, my dad, my grandparents. You know, they taught 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.719 us if there's someone out there in need or help, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.680 always give help in hand, regardless what color they were. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.480 If you can help them, you help them. And for 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.159 the fire service, that was for me was a way 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:40.200 of helping people. 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.080 The fire station. You had black people who work there, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.960 white people who worked there, a mixture of different ethnicities. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.680 And what do you think that taught you as well? 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.400 That we all are equal? 0:04:53.240 --> 0:05:00.680 Back then, racism existed, but I never really felt what 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.320 it was until I got arrested for my crime. You know, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.440 most African American until to grow up knowing who they 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.960 can be around. When it came to racistm I just 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.760 knew people that didn't like my kind, but I knew 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.560 to stay away from them. I respected them, Whether they 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:22.480 respected me, that was on them. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.560 According to census data, around fifty thousand people lived in 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.400 Hanover County in the early eighties. Out of those, forty 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:35.920 three thousand were white and less than seven thousand were black. So, Vanessa, 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.080 I want to turn to you now. Can you tell 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.200 us more about the racial climate in Hanover County at 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:41.719 this time? 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.640 Well, I think in general, it's important for people to understand, 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:50.160 you know, we're talking about nineteen eighty two, and if 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.120 we just go back twenty thirty years, we are in 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.159 the fifties and the sixties Virginia, and we are in 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.159 a period of racial segregation. This is before the Voting 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.160 Writes Act, or just within a decade and a half 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:10.080 of the assassination of Martin Luther King, and so it 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.880 may seem like, you know, that's far in America's history. 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.480 That was just a very brief period of time from 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.440 when we're talking about you know, when Marvin was eighteen 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.200 years old in Hanover, Virginia, you. 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.920 Had certain parts of the town where there's mostly you know, 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.039 African American people live in a certain part of the 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.039 town where it just only white people lived at But 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.280 I had to say this. I stood out in Nashville 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.680 because during that time my fiance was a white woman, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:46.839 so that wasn't something that was well known or for 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.279 most white people during that time to get used to 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.000 seeing a black man with a white woman. Then look, 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:56.200 they would give us. It would burn a hole through a wall. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.039 You know, how dare you? But as far as my people, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.080 it's just two people dating. They accepted more than most 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.360 white people did. So kind of kept my distance, but 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.440 try to live a normal life as best as I could. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.920 So at this point, you're eighteen years old. You and 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.840 your fiance have just moved from Richmond to Ashland, and 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.000 you're about to pursue your dream of becoming a full 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.160 fledged fireman. You must have felt like everything was going 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:27.000 your way more than. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:31.480 The counter had just started the first fire program, Well 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.200 you could become a professional fireman, and I had just 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.320 signed up for it. It was supposed to start it 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:38.520 that fall. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.960 And then on July seventeenth, nineteen eighty two, this incredibly 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.960 horrific crime happened in Ashland. Vanessa, What do we know 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:49.360 about what happened that day? 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:54.560 The victim in this case was walking home. She was 0:07:54.960 --> 0:08:00.320 taking a shortcut through a wooded area of rural over 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.560 County and was approached by a man who rode up 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.800 to her on a bicycle, threatened her with a gun, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.920 and proceeded to sexually assault her. And it was a 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.760 very brutal attack that lasted over the course of a 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.560 significant period of time, and when it was over, she 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.880 was taken to the hospital, a rape kit was collected, 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.240 her clothing was collected. The victim in this case was 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:33.160 a white woman, and she described the assailant as a 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:38.240 light skinned black man with a medium frame, short hair mustache, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.720 And there weren't a lot of clues as to who 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:47.479 this person might be, but at some point she related 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.400 that the man who attacked her said that he quote 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:57.079 had a white girl, And so the officer started to think, Hm, 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.040 who in town could it be that's black that we 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.760 know that is in a relationship or involved with somebody 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.280 who's white. And there was only one black man in 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.760 town that the officer knew who was involved with a 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.680 white woman, and that was Marvin Anderson. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.760 Marvin, Ashland was a pretty small, tight knit community. Like 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.120 you said, at the time, did you hear anything about 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:25.920 what had happened? 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.600 The crime actually took place on a Saturday, and that 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:34.120 Sunday I had a softball game, so some of the 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.400 teammates of minds, they was talking about what had happened. 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.439 And during that time, a few of my teammates knew 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:43.920 the perpetrator that committed this crime. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.120 People knew about the crime itself because it had made 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.199 the news. But I think you know what's so remarkable 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.439 about Marvin's case is that from the beginning the community 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.000 was aware of who really had committed the crime. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.880 Time and we'll talk about that more and who that 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.360 person was a little bit later, but first, Marvin, can 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.880 you tell us about the moment that you realized you 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:10.480 were a suspect in the case. 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.720 I was at work at the time. I worked at 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.360 Kingsmain part of my amusement park, and one of my 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.080 supervisors came down to my posts and said they needed 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.560 to see me in administration. And when I entered a room, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.880 there was the officer that I knew, and I actually 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.000 called him by his first name. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.560 I said, Hey, Roy, how you doing you know? And 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:32.000 he didn't say anything. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.959 And this officer was someone you knew pretty well. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.280 Knew him so well that I've actually had eaten dinner 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.040 at his dinner table with his kids. When I was 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.480 growing up, Roy kids plays sports, so of course we 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.240 met playing sports. So it wasn't like he didn't know me. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:49.920 He knew me. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.520 So these two officers, Roy Anderson and Marshall Bailey are 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:55.360 questioning you. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.880 The other officers mostly did all the talking. And that's 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.120 when he started questioning about, you know, where was I 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.040 at on the seventeenth of July around six thirty seven 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.720 o'clock that afternoon. And I gave him an honest answer 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:08.800 and I said, hey, I could have been anywhere, which 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.960 is true. I could have been playing sports. I could 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.000 have been at the fire station. You know, I just 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:17.240 could have been anywhere. And he was asking about, you know, 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.200 would you be willing to take a polograph test and 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:21.439 the course I agree to do. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:26.680 So, Marvin, throughout all of that experience where you're being questioned, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:31.320 you're cooperating with them. Did you ever think I should 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:32.000 get a lawyer? 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:37.559 No, you know, not once doing that entire question and 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.000 even going down to the county lockup, did I think 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.320 about a lawyer? You know, because I knew I didn't 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.120 do what they said had happened. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.000 You know, in cases like this. You know, you have Marvin, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.680 he's eighteen years old. They're law enforcement from his community. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.560 So they're people who you know, he's been raised to 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.360 give a certain amount of deference to and people that 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.840 he knows, and they're coming at him from a perspective of, 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.840 you know, we need your help in this investigation. And 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:12.040 so he's not thinking that people are out to get 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.000 him or that he is going to be railroaded for 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.960 something that he didn't do. And we see this in 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.760 wrongful conviction cases where people trust in the police, they 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.680 trust in the system, they trust in the process, and 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.760 are totally betrayed by it. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.800 Vanessa, what do we know about Royan Marshall's training at 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.120 that time? Are they beat cops? How big was Ashln 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:35.960 Police department? 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.760 I don't really have the answers to that, but I 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.600 think that it's helpful they contextualize that. You know, we're 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:49.240 talking about very small towns, you know, a population of 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.440 around seven thousand, eight thousand people, you know, and when 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.880 you consider police forces in more rural areas, they're not 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:02.600 really trained or have experience often times in handling serious crimes. 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.880 And so when something like a rape or a murder 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.000 happens a lot of times. We see in wrongful conviction 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.360 cases that you have forces that just don't have the 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:16.199 training or experience to really go about these more serious investigations. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.000 Right, So let's get back to that day. They didn't 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.520 end up doing the polygraph test, but there was a 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.040 photo array and a live lineup. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.120 And the front of thing, I bought it. When I 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.480 first walked into that room, I saw a picture, a 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.600 photo of me in a pholo, and I knew I'd 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.440 never been in trouble, so I was just curious, how 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.560 did he get this photo of me? That photo was 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.040 my job id photo. 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.319 His picture was the only color photograph among other black 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.320 and white photographs that were mug shots, and so it's 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.960 a standout. While it's a photo array that has many choices, 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.360 in reality, because of the suggestiveness, there's only one right 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.800 choice of who the suspect is, and once that identification 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.719 was made from the photo, he's then put in an 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.280 in person lineup. And what's so problematic about this is 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.080 that he's the only person from the photo array who's 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.560 repeated in the in person lineup, and so it's it's 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.920 obvious who the suspect is when she sees the lineup, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.920 and this is referred to in cases as unconscious transference. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:23.480 You know, we don't know at this point is she 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:29.040 recognizing Marvin from the lineup or from the incident. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.480 You know, my thought after the fact is that you know, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.840 if someone has shown you a photo of a person, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.120 regardless who that person may be, and within ten minutes 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.720 you see that same person standing directly at front you, 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.360 you're going to remember that phase of that photo. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.720 And that's what happened, Vanessa. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.120 Let's talk about the rape kit for a moment. Where 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.320 was the rape kit tested and the significance of the zerology. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.640 Of course, this is a era before we get to DNA. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.120 At that time in sexual assault cases, the type of 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.760 testing that was used was called ABO blood typing, and 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:15.520 all it could do was include an individual among a 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.200 large relatively large percentage of the population that could have 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.000 been the source of biological evidence at a scene. So it 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.640 was flight years far less precise than DNA testing. The 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.720 victim in this case, after the sexual assault was taken 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.400 to the hospital, a rape kit was collected, zeeman was recovered, 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:39.600 and the evidence went to the Virginia Division of Forensic Sciences, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.960 which is the State Crime Laboratory for zerological testing, and 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:48.520 an analyst there, Mary Jane Burton, did a forensic testing 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:53.840 and that testing was unable to exclude Marvin as the assailant. 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.600 And just a note for everybody listening, remember that name 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.280 Mary Jane Burton, because she'll be very important to this 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:06.000 case later on. So then, Marvin, on January twentieth, you 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:06.720 get arrested. 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.760 Of course, they took their first mug shot of me, 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.520 fingerprinted me, and read me my charges that I was 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:21.400 charged with rap slomy, robbery, introduction and I was locked 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:27.080 up that night, and that's when everything happened that kind 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:41.080 of destroyed my youth. By this time, the community is 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.040 really talking about what happened. They got the wrong person, 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:44.720 this who did it? 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.120 And all this From the very beginning, the community knew 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.640 because Otis Lincoln had stolen a bicycle earlier that day, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.160 and that was the bicycle that was used in the attack. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.960 One of the guys that plaid on my team said, yeah, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.320 you know, Pop stole my bike. There was a name 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.920 that they called him, Pop Lincoln. He was referring to 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.040 n stole his bicycle went off in the direction of 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:08.760 where the crime had taken place. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.199 And people immediately made this connection between Otis Lincoln and 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.840 the crime, but of course it was too lat because 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:21.280 police had already focused erroneously based on this suggestive identification 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:22.200 on Marvin. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.960 So we went to my attorney and informed him what 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.840 the community is saying. They're saying that this John Pop 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:34.399 Lincoln is the person they committed this crime. And my 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.679 attorney said, well, I knew him. I represented him some 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.480 years ago on a temporary rape on a female. So 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.640 at that time, I'm thinking to myself that hey, okay, 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.520 I got someone that's on my side now, someone that 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.560 knows this man is capable of doing these things. So 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.159 we'd hired him and met with him several times, and 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.440 each time we met with him, we was bringing him 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.600 new information about what happened that day. You know, we 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.480 brought in more witnesses that testify that I was at 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.240 a certain place, certain time. One of the witnesses that 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.680 testified in my behalf was that Lincoln said that day 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.840 that if he found a white woman and if they 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.800 didn't want to give him any he would take it. 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.919 And it's just sad to say it, but that's what 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:25.639 he did that day. So fast forward, we went to 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.959 our first put him in their hearing, and the victim 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.959 came in and she described her attacker as a very 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.840 very light skinny complexing person, straight, white teeth, short kink 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.080 of hair, maybe one hundred and fifty pounds, maybe five 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.680 sixty five seven. Okay, Well, as you can see me today, 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.920 I am not very very light skinny complexing person. And 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.600 at that time I worked at KINGSMANI amusement park out 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.160 in the sun all day long, so there's no way 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.520 I could be a light skinned complexing person. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:58.520 That's not me. 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.439 However, the person and she described was John ODI's Lincoln, 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.120 but yet she identified me as her attacker. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.920 So the trial began in December of nineteen eighty two 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:15.040 before Judge Richard Taylor. Your attorney was Donald White. Take 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.040 us back to that day, Marvin, if you can. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:22.280 I'm sitting there, I had my family behind me, my mom, dad, grandparents, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.120 and I look over at my jury. You know, It's 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:30.679 consisted of eight women, four men, all white, and I'm thinking, 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.480 I'm going to prison. No matter what happens, I'm going 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.960 to prison. So they come off, turning. Then called the 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.560 victim ones to stand to testify, and he asked you 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:44.639 know what happened. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:45.000 She said. 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.600 I was returning from a restaurant, had a bucket of 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.439 chicken in my hand. This black person approached me on 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.040 a bicycle. He asked her if he could walk me home. 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.000 I said no, I don't live too far. He proceeded 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.800 up the path and when I approached him for the 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.480 second time, he's laying on the side holding his knee 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.640 like he hurt himself. And when I stopped to assist him, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.800 that's when he grabbed me. He dragged me in the woods, 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.800 beat me, raped me, and he told me that you know, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.600 I wasn't his first white woman, that he had a 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.840 white girlfriend and all of that, and he dragged me 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.400 further into the woods and he beat me and raped 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:25.520 me again, and then he left me there. So when 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.480 it came to my attorney to question her, you know, 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.200 he basically asked the same question that the cor attorney did. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.600 What happened? Is the person that you know did this 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.720 to you? In his courtroom? She said yes, once again, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.960 she identified me as her attacker. So I'm still looking 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.439 at the jury, you know, and every time it was 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.400 almost like every word that came out of her mouth, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.920 they knew she was telling the truth. No matter who 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.040 my attorney put on the stand was testified, what could 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.800 be a lie. I had my fiance testified that I 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.720 picked her up from work one time. I went to 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.920 my mother's house and washed the car. Return home, We 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.240 ate dinner, We watched Fantasy Islands and The Love Boat 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.159 that night, and we went to bed. I had my 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.720 mother neighbors testified that I was there washing the car. 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.439 And not only that, I had the two witnesses that 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.399 over heard John's Lincoln at the car wash saying what 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.800 he would do to a white woman if they didn't 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.679 want to give him any So I'm thinking all of 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:32.080 this in my favor. And once my attorney put Lincoln 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:36.080 on the stand to testify that somehow it would tricker 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.000 her memory of what happened, just by seeing him and 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.800 hearing his voice. Well, my attorney didn't do that. He 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.240 did not put Lincoln on the stand. And when I 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.400 heard the judge ask my attorney if you had any 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.760 more further questions, he said, no, you'reanna. I turned to 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.240 my attorney and go, hey, wait a minute, what about me? 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.080 I want to testify. When am I gonna testify? His 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:03.080 words were, oh, everything's good. We don't need you to testify. 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.399 He refused to put Nicking on stand, nor did he 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:07.359 put me on a stand. 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.160 Marvin. I can't even imagine how frustrating that was for you. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.439 Frustrating is just not really a strong enough word to 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:19.320 capture that. But as you would learn many years later, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.280 your attorney had his own reasons for not calling Lincoln 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:24.119 to testify. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:30.000 Donald White represented John Otis Lincoln in connection with another 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:34.560 assault that Lincoln was accused of, and that was a 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:39.159 conflict because Marvin's defense at his trial was I'm not 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.120 the person who committed this crime. This crime was committed 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.440 by someone else. That someone else was a mystery at 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:48.160 the time of trial. But of course Donald White could 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:53.680 have presented evidence that that person was John Otis Lincoln, 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:55.080 and he chose not to. 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.919 Wow, Vanessa, that is just unbelievable. Rather than disclose that 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:03.000 he had a conflict of interest, which would have disqualified 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.760 him as Marvin's attorney, Donald White just left John Otis 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:12.000 Lincoln out of the trial totally. So pretty much all 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.879 the jury had to go on was the victim's identification 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:15.679 of you, Marvin. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.480 The jury went out for deliberation in about thirty to 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:25.080 forty five minutes, came back guilty for two cancer rate sodomy, 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.600 robbery introduction, and just ask them do you have a 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.000 recommendation for sentenzens They say, yes, weanna, we do two 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:38.600 hundred and ten years in prison. Everything in the courtroom 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:43.280 went blank, went dark. I could hear everyone in the courtroom, 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:48.040 but I couldn't see noone. My family were sitting directly 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.080 behind me, and I turned around to look at my 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.200