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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust me.

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Speaker 4: Trust me.

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Speaker 5: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 6: I've never lied to you, I've never.

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Speaker 2: Had a live about If you think that one person

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Speaker 2: has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 7: Welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 2: The podcast about cults, an extreme belief and manipulation from

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Speaker 2: two travelers who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 7: I am Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today is part one of our interview with Joelle Tamraz,

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Speaker 2: author of the book The Secret Practice Eighteen Years on

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Speaker 2: the Dark Side of Yoga. She's going to tell us

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Speaker 2: about her introduction to different yoga practices at a young age,

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Speaker 2: including TM, transcendental Meditation, the hunger she felt for a

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Speaker 2: deeper spirituality that landed her in India when she was

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Speaker 2: fresh out of Harvard, and how she met Aaron, the

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Speaker 2: self proclaimed swami who was thirty five years older than

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Speaker 2: her and quickly became her spiritual teacher, and she'll explain

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Speaker 2: a bit more about swami culture in India and the

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Speaker 2: yoga world.

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Speaker 1: She will also talk to us about how Iran made

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Speaker 1: her feel special and important, eventually revealing that he was

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Speaker 1: in contact with a series of beings he called elders

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Speaker 1: that gave him privileged access to the spiritual realm. Some

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Speaker 1: of the ways he began to work his magic on her,

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Speaker 1: and why she was the perfect target, and how she

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Speaker 1: felt when he revealed they had been married in another

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Speaker 1: life and should be married and this one too. I

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Speaker 1: would fall hard for this stuff.

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Speaker 2: You know that I think I would too. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I say this in the episode. So I'm

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Speaker 2: a broken record here, but it is fascinating how much

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Speaker 2: how many parallels there are to my mom's story, just

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Speaker 2: in a completely different culture and community. If you guys

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Speaker 2: haven't heard episode one of this podcasts, you will understand

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Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. Anyway, this is a very compelling

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Speaker 2: interview and as is her book. So before we dive

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Speaker 2: in with her, Megan, what is your coldiest thing of

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Speaker 2: the week.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just reflecting on the yoga classes and

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Speaker 1: meditation classes that I've done in my own life after

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Speaker 1: reading this book, and how if somebody wanted to. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've paid to get my TM mantra, as we discussed

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Speaker 1: on this podcast before. I then got blackout drunk and

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Speaker 1: started yelling at because it's supposed to be a secret.

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Speaker 1: But I've paid a lot of money for several different

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Speaker 1: things I've walked across the Tony Robbins, like beds of coal?

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Speaker 7: Oh you have? Did I know that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. Oh, it's not something

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Speaker 1: I usually lead with. I'm really shy, but no, I'm

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Speaker 1: just kidding. H No, I've just done so many, so

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Speaker 1: many things, and some of them are really cool. And

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Speaker 1: definitely when I'm meditating and doing my breathing exercises and stuff,

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Speaker 1: I just feel better. So it's so hard to know

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Speaker 1: that line between when it becomes problematic and when it's

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Speaker 1: just something that can be interesting to do.

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Speaker 2: It's so true it take such a high level of

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Speaker 2: attunement to your own body and to like the tactics

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Speaker 2: that people are using and whether they make you feel

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable or whether you know you're able to move through

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Speaker 2: conflict together or whether they're the only authority. Like, there's

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Speaker 2: so many things. It's very difficult. It's very difficult to

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Speaker 2: toe that line. But at the same time, most yoga,

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Speaker 2: of course, and most meditation are probably pretty harmless and

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Speaker 2: just good for you. And you know, I'm a mindfulness scurly.

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Speaker 2: I do it when I remember, too, which is not

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Speaker 2: very often but should be more.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just what we always come back to

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Speaker 1: on this podcast of like never make one person or

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Speaker 1: one thing the main thing.

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Speaker 7: So, yeah, you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Have a few yoga teachers, have a few different meditation

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Speaker 1: practices and keep it loose exactly.

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Speaker 7: And you just said the main thing.

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Speaker 2: And so because I just finished the Bachelorette finale, which

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Speaker 2: again I'm very late to this, I feel like I

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Speaker 2: must say the phrase we got to keep the main

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Speaker 2: thing the main thing. Bachelorette watchers will know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about. Nobody else will understand. So words to live bye,

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Speaker 2: not if you knew who was saying it.

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Speaker 7: Anyway, I don't dude you out a watch. It's so

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Speaker 7: good for me.

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Speaker 2: I am working on an album release and I'm doing

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Speaker 2: this independently.

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Speaker 7: Well, but listen, Yeah, it's out perfect. Please listen. It's

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Speaker 7: called The Silence.

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Speaker 2: It's about finally getting a toxic person's voice out of

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Speaker 2: your head and what a joy that is.

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Speaker 7: So you know, at the end of.

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Speaker 1: The episode, yeah, maybe, and then come back next week

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Speaker 1: because we're going to finish our interview with Joelle and

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Speaker 1: it just gets more and more fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk to her now. Welcome Joel tam RaSE to

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Speaker 2: trust Me. Thanks so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited about this one because I feel like your

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Speaker 2: story is it's a very common one, but for some reason,

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Speaker 2: we don't hear these stories enough. We hear so much

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Speaker 2: about fundamentalist Christian religions, Mormon offshoot religions.

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Speaker 7: And there is this whole guru culture.

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Speaker 2: That's happening, and for some reason, we're just not getting

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Speaker 2: as many of those stories.

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Speaker 7: So I'm really excited to talk to you today.

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Speaker 2: Start us at kind of the beginning, before you met

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Speaker 2: your guru and eventual husband. What was your life like.

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Speaker 2: You had a very sort of colorful childhood. Tell us

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you alluded to my color for childhood.

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Speaker 4: You know, I was born in Lebanon. At the start

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Speaker 4: of the Civil War, my parents immigrated to France. I

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Speaker 4: lived there till the age of nine, and then I

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Speaker 4: had this abrupt shift where we moved to New York City.

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Speaker 4: I was really excited about it, but it also coincided

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Speaker 4: with my parents splitting up, with my dad not living

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Speaker 4: with us anymore, even though he'd been absent in France.

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Speaker 4: That was the point at which he stopped living with

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Speaker 4: our family. I had a newborn baby sister, whom I adored,

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Speaker 4: but again was new My mom was really busy re

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Speaker 4: establishing her life as a single woman. There was a

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Speaker 4: lot going on. When I hit kind of puberty, I

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Speaker 4: threw myself into my studies and also I was learned

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Speaker 4: about Buddhism at school and somehow something clicked for me

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Speaker 4: and I felt like I'd found the key to the universe.

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Speaker 4: Something had been missing. And then I heard about the

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Speaker 4: Buddhist concepts and I thought, this is it. You know,

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Speaker 4: there is something that can guide me in my life.

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Speaker 4: And I had been exposed to meditation as well from

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Speaker 4: a young age. From the age of twelve, my mom

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Speaker 4: took me and even my little three year old sister

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Speaker 4: to the actualism Center in New York City. I'm sure

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Speaker 4: many listeners will not know what that is, but it's

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Speaker 4: a new age. It's a new age meditation technique based

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Speaker 4: on visualizing a crown of lights on your head. And

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Speaker 4: when I turned fifteen and my teacher was going to

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Speaker 4: move out of state and essentially I didn't learn anymore

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Speaker 4: after that, I felt emboldened to ask her this question

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Speaker 4: that I had, and I was like, I need to

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Speaker 4: ask you, is the crown real? Expecting her to tell

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Speaker 4: me that it's a metaphor that which is sently what

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Speaker 4: I had figured out as a teenager, and she looked

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Speaker 4: at me with a frown and just said, of course,

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Speaker 4: it's real. So I was exposed early on to people

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Speaker 4: who fully believe in the literal truth of some of

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Speaker 4: these things. And then I learned transcendental meditation at the

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Speaker 4: age of eighteen, went on to Harvard. I learned in

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Speaker 4: the June before going to Harvard in September, and I

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Speaker 4: didn't practice for the whole summer. You know, I had

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Speaker 4: many other interests like seeing friends, enjoying the city, doing whatever,

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Speaker 4: you know, before going to college. But when I got

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Speaker 4: to college, you know, i'd left my home for the

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Speaker 4: first time it had been you know, a very tumultuous upbringing,

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Speaker 4: I can say, and so I felt uprooted, and I

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Speaker 4: decided to really throw myself into my TM practice and

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Speaker 4: developed my self do it and do it regularly. And

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Speaker 4: then I I went to the TM Center in Cambridge, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 4: and that's where I really got pulled into New age

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Speaker 4: spiritual groups with very strong, you know, Indian leanings.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna energectorally call it's interesting that your mom

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Speaker 1: was also drawn to this because it felt like you

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Speaker 1: guys were kind of living large in the city, like

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Speaker 1: a really beautiful home and a nanny and all of

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Speaker 1: these different luxuries, so to speak. What do you think

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Speaker 1: was missing for her? That she was kind of searching

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Speaker 1: for something bigger and what was in you that also

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Speaker 1: was as well. I remember reading Sadartha in like eighth

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Speaker 1: grade and my mind being like name, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But then that was it for me. I was like, anyway,

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Speaker 2: moving on? Was my eighth grade life.

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Speaker 4: A common teenage thing? You know. I can't say for

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Speaker 4: her one hundred percent, Megan, but I know that in

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Speaker 4: Paris there was I mean, obviously I was younger, but

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Speaker 4: it's a very different culture, you know, in Paris and

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Speaker 4: the seventies, and you know, we got to New York City.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if she met someone who maybe introduced

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Speaker 4: her to you know, alternative medicine and meditations and all that,

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Speaker 4: but she certainly was very taken by it for many

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Speaker 4: years and felt that it was something good that would

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Speaker 4: like clear your mind and do good for you. And

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Speaker 4: that's why she brought my sister and me into it.

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Speaker 4: And I remember my dad not being you know, as

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Speaker 4: keen for us to be drawn into this, but she

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Speaker 4: clearly did it with the best of intentions for us. Again,

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Speaker 4: it was a very chaotic time for her as well,

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Speaker 4: and very difficult time. And then she went on to

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Speaker 4: study psychology and developed her private practice in New York City.

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Speaker 4: And I think as she became, you know, more embedded

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Speaker 4: into her new career than some spirituality fell away. And

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Speaker 4: I think as she saw me get involved with the room,

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Speaker 4: that was a big red flag.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, red flags will become a big part of this story.

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Speaker 2: You wrote in the book about a moment where you

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Speaker 2: kind of shared your mind with each other when you

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Speaker 2: weren't supposed to do that, and did you learn at

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Speaker 2: the time that the mantras that were given to you

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Speaker 2: and TM were just about when you were born, or

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Speaker 2: was that something that came later.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm forgetting Yeah, I just I say it at

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Speaker 4: the end through research. But at the time we were

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Speaker 4: completely bought into that these were these like sacred words.

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Speaker 4: In fact, some people erroneously say that they're Sanskrit. They're

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Speaker 4: not even Sanskrit. They are just they're just like random words,

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Speaker 4: ah or random sounds. I should say, they're not even worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I paid for one too. I paid for one

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Speaker 1: and then I got like super tipsy at a bar

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Speaker 1: and told everyone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, clearly my mom was a little but you can

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Speaker 4: see in that scene obviously I was much younger. The

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Speaker 4: one thing I would say to people now or when

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Speaker 4: I look back at myself is at eighteen, gosh, you're

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Speaker 4: just really open to what it is. And I think

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Speaker 4: my mom was already a little bit more seasoned, and

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Speaker 4: she was in her fifties or I think it was

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Speaker 4: late forties, and so she was probably thinking, you know, saying,

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Speaker 4: let's not take this super seriously.

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Speaker 1: It was expensive though, right, Like, how much was it

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Speaker 1: for y'all to do that?

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Speaker 4: At the time, I want to say, so, don't quoe, Like,

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Speaker 4: these are not exact figures, but I want to see.

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Speaker 4: It was like six hundred dollars each, okay for the meditation.

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Speaker 4: And I've gone back since, like more recently and looked

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Speaker 4: at what is the how do they price them? Apparently

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Speaker 4: it's it's means tested, so they have no kevils are

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Speaker 4: pricing that. I don't think they had at the time.

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Speaker 4: But as you get involved in it, and I think,

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Speaker 4: like any of these things, it gets weirder and it

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Speaker 4: pulls you in more at different levels. So you might

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Speaker 4: think this medi you know, the Montra meditation. Many people

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Speaker 4: who learn just think it's like this vanilla meditation and

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Speaker 4: don't think more of it. They don't think they're being

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Speaker 4: indoctrinated in a religion or in a cult or anything

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Speaker 4: like that. But then if you get more involved. We

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Speaker 4: did learn the advanced TM cities. Cities that is a

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Speaker 4: Sanskrit word and it means powers, and that is much

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Speaker 4: more expensive. I think that was like three thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: each for the residential day.

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Speaker 1: And this is one of the questions we're going to

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Speaker 1: have throughout this entire interview. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: you're given through this meditation the higher levels is the

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Speaker 1: spontaneous urge to hop. A lot of things that are

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Speaker 1: promised and again we'll get into it later actually happen

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Speaker 1: to you? What do you think the hop was that

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Speaker 1: everybody is motivated to do in these meditations.

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Speaker 2: Wait, but the hop is sort of marketed as flying, right,

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Speaker 2: it's not marketed as hopping. It's like you're flying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: just contextualizing, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: It's marketed as flying. I think some advanced or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I shouldn't even use that word, but that's what they

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Speaker 4: want you to use. Advanced practitioners would be in full

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Speaker 4: lotus and hop. I think for me, I am, believe

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Speaker 4: it or not, despite my story, quite an analytical person.

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Speaker 4: So I've got these two things going on. And while

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Speaker 4: I was repeating the mantras and what basically, if in

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Speaker 4: case listeners don't know, is that in the advanced TM cities,

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Speaker 4: they've taken sanscrit phrases from a book called the Patanjui

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Speaker 4: Yoga Sutras. They've taken specific phrases that are supposed to

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Speaker 4: be the powers that come to the yogi from practice,

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Speaker 4: and one of them, so it's not just the hopping

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Speaker 4: or the flying, but it's marketed as flying, and I

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Speaker 4: mean I listed in my book it's like something like

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Speaker 4: light as cotton or something. So you are repeating these phrases,

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Speaker 4: you're repeating them in English, so they're not making you

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Speaker 4: learn the Sanskrit. That will probably be too much memorization.

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Speaker 4: And I wasn't feeling the urge to hop, but what

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Speaker 4: I was feeling is the group pressure, and also in

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Speaker 4: the back of my mind because my mom had been

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Speaker 4: a big influence in my life, especially with our dad

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Speaker 4: not being present, and she had come back and said

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Speaker 4: that she was one of the first to hop and

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Speaker 4: there was sort of like the swell of pride, and

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Speaker 4: I just felt like, oh gosh, that's when I was

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Speaker 4: determined to learn, because I didn't want to be left

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Speaker 4: out of something that she had found meaningful, and also

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Speaker 4: that the guy was dating at the time had encouraged

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Speaker 4: us to do. So there was this whole kind of

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Speaker 4: internal family pushed to be like, let's all be these

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Speaker 4: super yogis. So I get there and I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 4: not feeling it, like you know, and I'm you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm repeating them on just I think eventually, I think

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Speaker 4: you self hypnotized, I want to say, and you just

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Speaker 4: get into it, and I just you know, I was

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Speaker 4: on my knees so rather than in lotus or cross legged.

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Speaker 4: It just felt like like I could do it. But

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Speaker 4: I think that's group think. I do think you kind

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Speaker 4: of get And it was this, I mean, the group

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Speaker 4: itself was like this, all women, maybe fifty or more.

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Speaker 4: I want to say, I don't remember the exact number,

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Speaker 4: all in this large hotel room with these padded mattresses.

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Speaker 4: So it feels safe and like the women who are

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Speaker 4: learning alongside you aren't, you know, dressed differently, Like it

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Speaker 4: doesn't have anything that would suggest culled. They come from

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Speaker 4: all walks of life, you know, teacher and all kinds

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Speaker 4: of people in there that seem as reasonable as you

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Speaker 4: think you are. Right, people are starting to hop and

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Speaker 4: I do remember the very first ones to hop were

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Speaker 4: the children of parents who are in the Age of

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Speaker 4: Enlightenment Maharashi Maheshio Gie group. But I think they're somewhere

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Speaker 4: in Oregon. There's an organ like there's like a hub.

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Speaker 1: Of Oh that's interesting, so that.

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Speaker 4: Those children were probably just really ready for whatever they've

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Speaker 4: been taught. Maybe they've seen their parents as well.

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Speaker 2: Right, And just to be clear, you're not suspended in

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Speaker 2: the air for a physically impossible amount of time during

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Speaker 2: the flying or hopping.

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Speaker 4: It's just no hopping, and as far as I know,

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Speaker 4: no one is. So I think people have seen like

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Speaker 4: impressive videos, but they're impressive videos of people taking jumps.

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Speaker 1: You know, people get paid a lot of money for jumping,

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Speaker 1: so that's fine.

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Speaker 4: Jump.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about the guy

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Speaker 1: who's getting you deeper into James?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, so James. I met James really early on

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Speaker 4: in my Harvard you know, you know, years at the

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Speaker 4: TM Center, and he just appeared from the lower level

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Speaker 4: where the advanced meditators were meditating on the mattresses. So

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Speaker 4: he just he appeared. He just looked completely like imbued

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Speaker 4: with this aura of spirituality. He was also a mathematics

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Speaker 4: professor fifteen years older than me, and something just drew

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Speaker 4: me to the knowledge that I felt he had. But

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Speaker 4: over the time of my knowing him, So let me backtrack.

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Speaker 4: About a year and a half into that relationship, I

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Speaker 4: broke it off. You know, I clear, I didn't feel

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Speaker 4: like it was someone I wanted to spend more time with,

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Speaker 4: but I was. I couldn't get on hook from the spirituality,

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Speaker 4: so I broke it off on a personal level, But

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Speaker 4: in terms of what he knew and what he represented,

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Speaker 4: I still admired him and wanted to know what he knew.

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Speaker 4: He introduced me very significantly to Baba Gee, who a

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Speaker 4: lot of people may not have heard of, but in

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Speaker 4: the yoga circles he's known as the Master Yogi or

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Speaker 4: in some yoga circles, I should say, is he the

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Speaker 4: Beatles guy Maharashi Mahesh Yogi's okay? So that the TM

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Speaker 4: founder Baba Shei is more of a mythical figure who

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Speaker 4: appears in a very famous book, and I think that's

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Speaker 4: where he's been picked up on by maybe other girls.

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Speaker 4: He appears in Autobiography of a Yogi that was published.

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Speaker 4: It was the first book really about yoga, I think,

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Speaker 4: published in the West outside of India in nineteen forty seven,

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Speaker 4: and it's still a very top selling, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: the best selling book still. I reread it recently. I

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Speaker 4: mean I read it when I was younger and thought, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is amazing, and then I reread it recently and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, this is mythical, like this a lot. It

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Speaker 4: just felt very different reading it.

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Speaker 2: So how did you and James and up going to

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Speaker 2: India together?

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Speaker 4: So I am just before graduating. I won a travel grant.

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Speaker 4: I had applied for it several weeks earlier and additionally

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Speaker 4: not heard back or even I think been rejected. But

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Speaker 4: then the winner couldn't go. So at the eleventh hour,

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Speaker 4: they're like, we've got this money, do you want to travel?

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Speaker 4: And it just felt like this amazing opportunity. I was

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Speaker 4: apprehensive though, by going to India on my own. I'd

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Speaker 4: been the summer before with James, and I knew that

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Speaker 4: the you know, the male female dynamics, it's not the

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Speaker 4: easiest place to be, especially back in the mid nineties,

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Speaker 4: I would say still today as a single woman. So

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Speaker 4: it's you know, it's it's patriarchy on steroids. It's really really,

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Speaker 4: you know, segregated with men women. So I asked James

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Speaker 4: if you want to come along. We were not together together,

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Speaker 4: but we kind of had these still in a kind

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Speaker 4: of relationship, and at first he didn't want to go,

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Speaker 4: but then he couldn't resist going to India again, and

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Speaker 4: we ended up going to India, and interestingly that time

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Speaker 4: because he knew the purpose of my trip then was

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Speaker 4: to study Indian spirituality and religion, Hindu religion specifically, and

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Speaker 4: he wanted to go and find Baba Jee. So this

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Speaker 4: and I must say that he was supposed to have

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Speaker 4: lived centuries like to be like in the Himalayas, So

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Speaker 4: that was also an impossible quest that James wanted to

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Speaker 4: go on.

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Speaker 7: This is the person who was not alive well anymore.

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Speaker 1: James. He was like, did you believe it all that

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Speaker 1: he was alive or were you like bro?

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Speaker 4: So this is the interesting thing. I think I believe

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Speaker 4: that he existed. I just didn't think he was going

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Speaker 4: to appear to us mere mortals. So there was this

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Speaker 4: these two levels of belief, you know, the belief and

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Speaker 4: like I believe I'm drinking you know, I cost water,

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Speaker 4: you know that is a belief. But the belief that

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Speaker 4: somewhere out there he might be that somebody that you

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Speaker 4: could pray to him, so he'd become a spiritual figure

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Speaker 4: since I'd learned about him. But when James said we're

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Speaker 4: going to go to the specific location high up in

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Speaker 4: the Himalayas, which is a Hindu pilgrimage site, budrynot very

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Speaker 4: well known to Hindus. There's an important temple there. I

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Speaker 4: have no idea how James made the link that we'd

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Speaker 4: find Bobajee there, but so for James it was something

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Speaker 4: more concrete, and we didn't find Babaji. But also I

400
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Speaker 4: aborted the search really early on. I have a terrible cold,

401
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Speaker 4: you know, I need to go back to Rishi Kash. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me of being a Mormon child and hearing

403
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Speaker 2: stories about Joseph Smith receiving a vision in the woods.

404
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Speaker 7: So I would go out to the woods and.

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Speaker 2: Be like, all right, God, a birthay vision ready for

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Speaker 2: you to appear.

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Speaker 1: You know.

408
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Speaker 7: It's like okay.

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Speaker 2: So at some point you're like, this is probably not

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Speaker 2: going to happen and I need to get out of here.

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Speaker 4: Shortly after that we end up meeting the Root.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the context for which you meet this man.

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Speaker 2: Can you just tell us a little bit about that

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Speaker 2: meeting and what that was like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it just it seemed very banal. At the time.

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Speaker 4: I was walking down the steps of the guest how

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Speaker 4: guest house where we were staying. My room was on

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Speaker 4: the on the on the second floor. I'm adjusting for

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Speaker 4: American listeners. And because we say first floor here in

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Speaker 4: the UK, so I knew I was walking down these steps.

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Speaker 4: I had left something. I left my towel to dry,

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Speaker 4: and it was just I was coming down. It had

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Speaker 4: fallen off the balcony. I just wanted to find my towel.

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Speaker 4: And the reception area was you know, quite dark. It

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Speaker 4: was dusk, and I just see this man who looks

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Speaker 4: like a hybrid of an Indian yogi because our swami,

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Speaker 4: because he's wearing the orange colors, this very characteristic kind

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Speaker 4: of salmon orange clothing, but the clothing itself is not traditional.

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Speaker 4: So he's wearing athletic shorts and a T shirt. And

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Speaker 4: I just see him in profile, and he's kind of

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Speaker 4: staring out into the distance, and I am captivated by

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Speaker 4: what he looks like, or how calm he seems to me,

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Speaker 4: how confident, just you know, look at him for a

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Speaker 4: couple of minutes. Maybe the thought crosses my mind that

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Speaker 4: he's handsome, you know, it's one of these sort of

436
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 4: fleeting thoughts. And then he turns around and he's like,

437
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 4: what can I do for you? And I'm startled because

438
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 4: I didn't know he realized I was, you know, seen him,

439
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 4: and that's the first I see of him. But I

440
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 4: remember thinking, oh, you know, I'd like to know more

441
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 4: about him. And then I think, either that evening or

442
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 4: the next evening evening we meet him James, and I

443
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 4: meet him again with other Taurus turists that are staying

444
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 4: in the same guest house. They're all women, I should say,

445
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 4: and they're all wrapped in his whatever he's saying, and

446
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 4: he speaks with a lot of confidence, very brash, very just,

447
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 4: you know, I can say whatever I want to say

448
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 4: kind of person. And the rest of us were pretty

449
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 4: much listening, and he must have asked I don't remember

450
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 4: him posing the question, but he must have asked, why

451
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: are you here? And I must have mentioned Gandhi, which

452
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 4: I had studied the philosophy of Gandhi for my senior thesis,

453
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 4: and at that point he just kind of discredits Gandhi

454
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 4: and I'm shocked, but of course I don't say anything interesting.

455
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: What is a swami?

456
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 4: So a swan to me is a Hindu monk, and

457
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 4: they're different orders of Swamis. And you'll see sometimes you'll

458
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 4: see the students are dressed in white, or the trainees,

459
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 4: and then they'll be an orange but there's a little

460
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 4: bit of a gray area where some of them do

461
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 4: marry and some of them don't. So just does have

462
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 4: the sort of soulibate Monk communities usually men living together

463
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 4: supposedly culibate. So that's so there is a little bit

464
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 4: of that nuance of you know, if you wear the color,

465
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 4: then it does mean something, right, and I think a

466
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 4: roon obviously I didn't know this, but a roon had

467
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 4: just put on the color.

468
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a whole revelation later. But yeah, if you

469
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: see somebody wearing that color, you just kind of imbue

470
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: onto them like a spiritualness that is of its own.

471
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 4: That's right, a spiritual practice, and also what kind of

472
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 4: I think it also tells you about what kind of

473
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 4: pursuits they would have. You kind of assume that they're

474
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: spending a lot of their day in meditation, prayer, other practices.

475
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 4: You're definitely not going to assume that they are trying to,

476
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 4: you know, make money or or have other.

477
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: Right, So there's sort of an inherent spiritual authority that

478
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: you perceive when you see somebody who looks like that,

479
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: And was he describing himself as a teacher of some

480
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: kind or was he, Yes, yeah.

481
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 4: He was. He called himself Swami or Un and I

482
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 4: think probably very early on said you know, you can

483
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 4: drop the swami, but he used the title and he

484
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 4: said to people that he came from a long lineage

485
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 4: of Himalayan masters, and who would teach him? I had

486
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 4: taught him this authentic secret yoga. So absolutely that's what

487
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: he said he was.

488
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: And tell us about how the two of you began

489
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: to sort of form more of a connection and not James.

490
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well James ends up leaving. You know, I'm there

491
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 4: for four months. That's always been planned. I've got my

492
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 4: return ticket in December, and mid September or even early September,

493
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 4: James goes back to Europe, where he has a university

494
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 4: job to return to. He's very disappointed because by this

495
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 4: point he's convinced that Arun is a spiritual master, in fact,

496
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 4: the spiritual master that he's hoped to find in India.

497
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 4: So he has also elevated a run and I'm, you know,

498
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 4: a little bit more cautious. I don't immediately say, oh,

499
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 4: I want to become a room student, and I'm already

500
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: enrolled in a formal yoga course at another ashram, at

501
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 4: Shivananda Ashram, which is internationally known. So I've got myself

502
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: set there. I know I'm going to start my course,

503
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 4: but I'm a bit anxious because I'm alone. I don't

504
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 4: know many people. The people I do know are just acquaintances.

505
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 4: And actually I forget about a room. But he comes

506
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 4: knocking on my door the day that James leaves.

507
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: And trimming yeah, and with a smile on his face,

508
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: very warm, this uncle like behavior.

509
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 4: I mean, he's the age of my father. So he

510
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: he just says, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah,

511
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 4: I'm fine. And then he invites me out to lunch

512
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 4: with the other women tourists that are kind of in

513
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 4: his coacherie around him, and I declined because I've prepared,

514
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 4: you know, I've organized my lunch separately. And he returns,

515
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: you know, several days in a row with the same

516
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 4: solicitous are you all right? Do you want to come

517
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 4: out to lunch with very It's brought very spontaneous, it

518
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 4: doesn't seem planned. And then one day I say, you know,

519
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: I don't know anyone here. Why do I keep rejecting

520
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 4: this nice man's offer to go out to lunch and

521
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 4: with the group so finally I make you know, I'm

522
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 4: quite organized, so I don't order my lunch and I

523
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 4: wait for him and he does arrive and I say, yes,

524
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 4: you know, come along, and we do go to this restaurant,

525
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 4: and to my surprise, he picks a table for two,

526
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 4: and I'm like, this is interesting. What about the others?

527
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 4: I'm assuming they're not available, but they do walk in.

528
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 4: He makes eye contact with them, and then they said

529
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 4: somewhere else. He doesn't suggest we group together, and at

530
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 4: that point I'm like, oh, like, this is interesting. Am

531
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 4: I special? So I start to feel that kind of

532
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 4: affection or that that interest that he has in me,

533
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 4: and we just start talking. That's where he finds out

534
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 4: more about why I'm there and piques my curiosity about

535
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 4: the teaching, and I go inquire more. But actually, what

536
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 4: I don't realizeen's happening is that he's been cultivating connection

537
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 4: between us. So when I then take that step to

538
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 4: go chat with him, it's all been kind of playing.

539
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 4: And he opens the door since one evening. You know,

540
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 4: I take what feels like a very bold step to

541
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 4: go and you know, say hey, like and just chat.

542
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 4: He opens the door and he kind of removes all

543
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 4: that anxiety because he treats me like an old friend

544
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: and says, come here, here, have a seat, almost like

545
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 4: this fireside chat feel to it, and ends up talking

546
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: a lot about his life, a lot about himself, about

547
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 4: the many years he's spent in la and I'm, you know,

548
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 4: I feel really privileged that he's telling me all about himself,

549
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 4: you know, as one might if you meet a new

550
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 4: person and they're very open and they kind of bring

551
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 4: you into their stories. And then he asks a little

552
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: bit about me, and he about his teaching, and he says,

553
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 4: you know that he could teach me the you know,

554
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 4: the yoga, and he keeps it quite sounding a little

555
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 4: bit exclusive, but I might be ready, and I'm not

556
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 4: picking up any danger signals at all. In fact, speaking

557
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 4: about you know, God, he ends one of that conversation

558
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 4: by saying, you know, people talk so much about God,

559
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 4: But what's the point of talking about God? If I

560
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 4: could take you to the room next door and show

561
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: you God, what would you do? And he was trying

562
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 4: to really tap into something that obviously was on my mind.

563
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 4: But then I thought, all of a sudden, no, no,

564
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: I'm I'm not ready for that. There's a lot of

565
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 4: me saying I'm not I'm not trying to really see God.

566
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: That would be scary.

567
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 7: Yeah.

568
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're twenty two at the time, right, correct? Yeah, yeah, okay.

569
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 7: How old at fifty five? Fifty five?

570
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: Many of our listeners and also me are not super

571
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: familiar with just like this general culture of yoga teachers.

572
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 7: Can you just describe a little bit like how it works.

573
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of different people who have a bunch

574
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: of different like types of yoga, and they're like sort

575
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: of this very mysterious.

576
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 7: Can you just explain the culture a little bit.

577
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's a minefield because there's so many kinds.

578
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 4: I think what you're owning into Lola. I mean, there's

579
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 4: there's definitely a guru student relationship in yoga that is

580
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: supposed to be like the right way to learn yoga.

581
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 4: But that's rarely what people mean when they study like

582
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 4: yoga outside of India, because there's been some standard practices

583
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 4: that are more physical than meditative. I'm going to use

584
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: that word because I find spiritual is a strange word,

585
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: like we're all spiritual, you know, But but I would

586
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 4: say there's physical versus meditative, and obviously every yoga has

587
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 4: a bit of both, or you know, at least some.

588
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 4: But then there's been these standard practices that have come out,

589
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 4: like Biram yoga is a great example, because you know,

590
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 4: Big Crumb learned whatever he did in India, packaged himself

591
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 4: as a guru, stand it even copy or whatever he did,

592
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 4: copyright his postures and so people have. But then people

593
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: tend to fall into admiring and devoting themselves to their

594
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 4: yoga teachers. There's Yoga, you know, Yogi Budget. I mean,

595
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 4: a lot of these people are no longer alive, but

596
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 4: Yogi Budget found it, founded Kundalini Yoga. You've got reg

597
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: the I mean, there's so many of these organizations, and

598
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: some of them have been quite large. And one of

599
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 4: the things that the ones that have come into disrepute

600
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: all have in common is they're all large financial empires

601
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 4: as well. So what seemed different on the outset with

602
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: the Ruin is he seemed to be taking you back

603
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 4: to the source where you're learning directly from a teacher.

604
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 4: On the face of it, there's no empire around him,

605
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 4: there's no organization. It feels very private, and I don't

606
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: I don't think you're asking about this all, but obviously

607
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: that doesn't include all the yogas that people practice in gyms,

608
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: and you know, there's just a whole.

609
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting to hear about because I

610
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: feel like the only thing I can really like in

611
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: it too in my own personal life experience is just

612
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: the myriad Christian churches that have like these really minute

613
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: differences but are saying, no, this is the secret special one.

614
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 7: No, this is the secret special one.

615
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that people who are teaching yoga

616
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: are all doing it in this sort of nefarious way,

617
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: but it's more just that, like I'm assuming there aren't

618
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: like dramatic significant differences between all of these practices.

619
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 7: Is it more just like the poses and the mantras?

620
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 4: No, there are, there are, there are Actually, as you

621
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 4: were describing your experience, it's a complete It's an exact

622
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: parallel where people are picking up on this so called

623
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 4: ancient teaching and then absolutely they're saying mine is like this,

624
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 4: and they are very different. I mean, Kundalini yoga has

625
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 4: you know, a whole bunch of different bathing exercise. I'm

626
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 4: not an expert, but I went to one class and

627
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: even even with what i'd learned from Maron. I was like, whoa,

628
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 4: this is a little bit out there. And I felt

629
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 4: like the features continuous smile and her continuous giggle was

630
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 4: for me. Even back then, it's just a real red flag.

631
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, this is this is weird. She just looks

632
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: zoned out and she'd be like punctuating her phrases with giggles,

633
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: like all the time. Scary, what is that about? So no, no,

634
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 4: they're absolutely very different. And if you consider as well,

635
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 4: I want to add that the word yoga I feel

636
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 4: like the one. The word yoga in India is used

637
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 4: much more interchangeably for meditation than we use it here.

638
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: So even transcendental meditation was talking about yoga. Think about it.

639
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: They call it yoga flying. They use the the sutras,

640
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 4: the lines from the potentially yoga sutras. So so there

641
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 4: is this blurring of meditation yoga. And yes, they are

642
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: very different, and most of them to in order to

643
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 4: make money, they have to tell you that it's the

644
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 4: one and the special one. Otherwise it's a free world.

645
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 4: We're going to teach you something, have fun, go on

646
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,239
Speaker 4: to something else, right right right. To make money, it's

647
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 4: got to be exclusive and special.

648
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like he was a master making it

649
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: feel that way, even when you knock on the door

650
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: and he answers, and it's like it just feels like

651
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: he's been waiting for you, like destiny, like oh, finally

652
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: you're here, come on in, Like it would feel so

653
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: predestined to me if I was in your shoes.

654
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 4: It did, and it felt safe. I want to say,

655
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: it felt safe for a long time. You know, he

656
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 4: was as I started to learn, so I started to

657
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: learn every morning at well, by the end of the evening,

658
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 4: we end up talking really long time. That's another thing

659
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 4: that makes it feel like we're close. And I do

660
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 4: feel like this is strange that I feel close to

661
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 4: this person. I haven't had a lot of like these

662
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 4: connections in my life, and so it feels special for

663
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 4: that reason as well. Looking back, we can say I

664
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 4: was vulnerable to someone taking that much attention and interest

665
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: in me. And by the end he says, Okay, come

666
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 4: back at five am. So that's really for me and I,

667
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: you know, but this is whole, the whole part of

668
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 4: it being special, and it must be at five and

669
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: at dawn and not another time. So I do go

670
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 4: back and I finally enough when I knock on his

671
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 4: door at five the next morning, he looks bewildered, And

672
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 4: you know, I'm confused. Now, I'm like, why is he bewildered?

673
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 4: But I stay there because I'm like, you told me

674
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: to be here. So he does kind of a double

675
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 4: take and then says, you know, sit here for a minute,

676
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 4: goes do whatever he wants to to prepare himself in

677
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 4: the bath, and comes back and then starts teaching and

678
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: puts on you know, the teaching voice and makes it

679
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 4: sound very like a sacred moment.

680
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: Did you tell him that night before kind of that

681
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: your mom and dad had been a little bit absent

682
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: in your life and that maybe you really longed for

683
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: that connection. Did anything like that come to the surface

684
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: when you guys were talking.

685
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 4: It might have, It might have, And if it didn't

686
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 4: that night, I think he picked up uh. I think

687
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 4: he picked up right away way that I was there

688
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 4: to learn yoga so and that I was. I think

689
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 4: he picked They pick up you know, manipulators do pick

690
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 4: up your vibe, your energy, your vulnerability. So I think

691
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 4: he picked it up. And then I think he unearthed

692
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 4: facts as we were chatting even that James, because James

693
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 4: had gun and spoken with him and told him that

694
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 4: he was on the search for Babaji. I'm sure he

695
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 4: told him because a month later, a month into my

696
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 4: learning from a Roun, he drops his bombshell and says,

697
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: my master's Babaji and that you know that may sound

698
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: completely crazy, but to me, I was like the babbajee

699
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 4: I remember actually saying, like, you don't really mean the

700
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 4: guy from the book, the guy who lived like centuries

701
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 4: and by the way, just sixth what we mean by

702
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 4: living centuries. He apparently was able to use yoga to

703
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 4: prolong his life and then left his body. And that

704
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 4: myth or that belief exists in the yoga world, Like

705
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 4: that's not completely far. The idea that you could control

706
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 4: your time of death, that you could do so much

707
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 4: yoga that you'd be immune to any diseases, and you

708
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 4: would look young for much longer than the average person.

709
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 4: All these things are there.

710
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: Well, I've read in like scientific text I remember it

711
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: was even in my high school textbook that a yogi

712
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: died at a hospital and lotus position and stayed that

713
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: way for two weeks. And they were all mystified and

714
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: that somebody could slow down their breathing so much that

715
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: their heart rate like they were practically dead. But it

716
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: was just a meditative state. And I remember being like,

717
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: that's interesting. This sounds like my science book was like

718
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: a yoga science book. It wasn't. This was just like

719
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: a very short little thing at the end of a chapter,

720
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: but it really stuck out to me. So and we'll

721
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: get into more of this as it goes on. There's

722
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: just some interesting things phenomena that can happen through yoga

723
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: practice that kind of makes buying into this whole thing

724
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: not that quote unquote wild.

725
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 7: It feels like there's magic really h happening.

726
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 4: I think that some of it, you know, I'm just

727
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 4: not sure that it really is there.

728
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 7: But yeah, I'm I also I'm not sure that it

729
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 7: really is there.

730
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: WELLA definitely not, especially because the mind is so powerful

731
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: and like putting your body into a meditative state is

732
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: just another thing that you could do to your body

733
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: in Yeah, but it's happening on the.

734
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 7: Physical, real plane.

735
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: We will talk more about some of the specifics that

736
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: I think Megan is referencing.

737
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, in a.

738
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 2: Bit, I was just going to comment on the prior

739
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: thing that you brought up, which is about whether he

740
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: knew some of her vulnerabilities. And I think sort of

741
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: inherent to you being there at all, coming to visit

742
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: at such a young age, like does kind of make

743
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: you a target or I should say an easier target

744
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: than others, because you're obviously there to learn, You're obviously

745
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: hungry for knowledge, yes, and you're a young woman and

746
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: you're by your stuff, like there's so many Like if

747
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 2: I saw you, I would probably assume also like, oh,

748
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: she's here to learn, she wants to deepen her spirituality.

749
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: And if I was someone who had that to offer

750
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: or felt I could pretend that I had that to offer,

751
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 2: I you know, you'd be the perfect target.

752
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 4: And I think looking back, you know, all the it

753
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 4: felt so special and predestined. But obviously had it not worked,

754
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 4: you know, had he made a wrong bit, he would

755
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 4: have gone moved on, right. I think he wasn't there

756
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 4: just as a quick hit and miss in Rishi Kish

757
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,479
Speaker 4: in that guest house. He would have picked someone else

758
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 4: or moved to another guest house. So I think it's

759
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 4: this idea with and this is not just in spiritual stories,

760
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 4: but this idea that manipulators and predators always will want

761
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: the prey to feel very special. Yeah, that absolutely, And

762
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 4: I know we call it law bombing not you know that,

763
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 4: you know, but I just feel like it's this warm

764
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 4: feeling that they create, and you know, they will move on.

765
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 4: It's kind of a repeated thing that they will try

766
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 4: to do right.

767
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: And I feel like I relate to you so much

768
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: because one of the things that I feel like I

769
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 2: have found to be a pattern and my life is

770
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: that when I feel like there's an older man who

771
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 2: has a lot of knowledge that has just like always

772
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: been the thing that is very appealing to me, I'm like,

773
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: give me the knowledge.

774
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 7: What's the knowledge? I want the knowledge. Give me the knowledge,

775
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 7: you know. And like, even when I'm not.

776
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: Necessarily attracted to people, if there's someone who's like older

777
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: and they know a lot, like I'll hang out with

778
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: them just because I'm like, I want to like vampire

779
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: their knowledge out of their head.

780
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 5: You know.

781
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: There's just something that's always been very appealing and attractive

782
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: about that. And I imagine myself in your situation at

783
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: your age, and I'm like, oh, one hundred percent, especially

784
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 2: if I had the spiritual inclinations that you did.

785
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 8: A roun.

786
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 2: I'd be like, teaching me everything, give me at all.

787
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: How much money do you need?

788
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 4: You know? Yeah, that's pretty much how I functioned then.

789
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: So at what point did he tell you that he

790
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: needed to be paid for some of these teachings.

791
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 4: It was probably Yeah. I wanted to say it was

792
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 4: like a week or two into it, but it was

793
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 4: a lapse of time. I did not know. I was

794
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: gonna try and buy the situation, but he had a way.

795
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 4: He eased into it by saying that, you know, the

796
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 4: way I learned is I served my master's for twelve years,

797
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: and in the modern world, we don't have that kind

798
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 4: of time. The substitute for the service is money. And

799
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 4: he asked for I want to say he definitely asked

800
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 4: for more money than I ultimately pay. He made again

801
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 4: he read me, but I think he asked for six thousand.

802
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 4: I was like completely shocked, and he's like, oll, i'll

803
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 4: do it. I'll teach you for three and I happened

804
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: to have three thousand dollars that my dad had given

805
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 4: me in an envelope for the trip. So I don't

806
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 4: know if again I had dropped that, if he I

807
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 4: had no idea how he knew the exact amount or

808
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 4: if it was a coincidence, doubt it. But and at

809
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 4: first I was shocked. And I make the one and

810
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: only phone call back to James back in Europe, back

811
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 4: when you had to like go on the one phone,

812
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 4: you know, at the guest house lobby. I'd be like,

813
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 4: can I make a long distance call and say, look,

814
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 4: guess what I'm learning from Maroon? And I'm kind of

815
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 4: proud because I know James wanted to learn from a run.

816
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: So I'm like, yeah, I got in almost like it

817
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 4: was like this competitive, like you know, a program that

818
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 4: I got into. And but here's the thing. And James

819
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 4: immediately says connects the demand for money with a sexual

820
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 4: ac connotation, and that takes me back. So I haven't

821
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: clocked into that aspect at all at that point. So

822
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 4: he's like, are you sure of his intentions for you?

823
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 4: And I'm not. And that's during to me because I'm

824
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 4: not connecting. I'm like, well, of course, if you know.

825
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 4: To me, sex and money were not connected. So I

826
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 4: discredit James in my mind at that point, like James

827
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 4: doesn't really understand what's going on. I'm in a sacred,

828
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 4: pure relationship with this man much older than me, and

829
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 4: the next day I DECI sit to runya, I want

830
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 4: to learn here's the money.

831
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: And at what point did you learn that there were

832
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 2: elders within him?

833
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 7: And can you explain that?

834
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 4: You know, it's probably around the time of Boba that

835
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: he revealed that he was a student of Bob and

836
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 4: that I think he explained the elders at that time too.

837
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 4: There were eight elders in the service of Bobbage. They

838
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 4: all lived on the other side.

839
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: The other realm of like death almost.

840
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, yeah, call it like that. But he

841
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 4: said the other side was kind of like the spiritual plane,

842
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 4: not the you know. And then yeah, that's that's when

843
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 4: he explained that they existed and that they were his

844
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 4: teachers very conveniently, that he had to follow their instructions,

845
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 4: that he was beholden to them.

846
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 2: So there he basically has like eight guys on his

847
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: shoulder at all times, like chiming in, and is how

848
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: he's kind of presenting it, like.

849
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 4: Not quite but not quite like that image. It's more

850
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 4: like he has to connect to them through his meditations,

851
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: so he has to transport himself to the other side,

852
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 4: and this is where he would appear to be what

853
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: we would call sleeping or napping and just be transported.

854
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 7: So they're not with him all the time. He has

855
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 7: to like tune in and access them.

856
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 4: And I think, because these are stories, I'm sure sometimes

857
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 4: they're probably downloading. There's a bit of a hodgepodge.

858
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 7: But yeah, yeah, yeah, OK.

859
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: But then he's channeling.

860
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: Eight, you know, it's one or two.

861
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he's like channeling them through himself, and

862
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: you can kind of see a change come over him

863
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, you're not.

864
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 4: The first time he channels one is two years down

865
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 4: the line when we're.

866
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 1: So you're already like really a student. Yeah, wow, I'm.

867
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 4: A student, but I'm also his Yeah I'm the past wife, right,

868
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 4: so we're involved romantically and I'm making my plans that

869
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 4: he's the one.

870
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: What what do you mean you were the past wife?

871
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 4: Oh? So three? So we so I end up learning

872
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 4: from him. I learned from him for about two three

873
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 4: months when I finished my formal yoga training at Shivanandashtrum,

874
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 4: which has nothing to do with what he's teaching me.

875
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 4: It's a lot of like with books and studying and

876
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 4: a little bit of physical yoga practice. But it's more

877
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 4: cerebral and that's, you know, how one of the ways

878
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 4: that yoga is taught in India. And so I finish

879
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 4: that I do very well in that course. I'm really

880
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 4: happy and I didn't know if it was going to

881
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 4: be graded, but it was, so get a little boost there.

882
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 4: But then he's like, you want do you want to

883
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 4: travel together? And I'm really I'm at this point, I

884
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 4: am attracted to him. We spent a lot of time together.

885
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 4: I don't want to be I don't want to be

886
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 4: I know he's thirty three years older. I did not

887
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 4: go out to India to fall love with someone thirty

888
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: three years older, No way. But we are close. At

889
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 4: that point, he's confided in me. He's mentioned a lot

890
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 4: of ex door friends, like he's dropped in innuendos, not

891
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 4: necessarily about me, but he's made sure that it's in

892
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,479
Speaker 4: the conversation, not all the time, just once in a while.

893
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 4: You know. It's this whole way of pulling you in.

894
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 4: And then he says, let's travel together, and at that point,

895
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 4: I really want to travel with him. And he then says,

896
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: we're going to bring another couple with us, because it

897
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 4: wouldn't be appropriate for you and me to travel together.

898
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 4: So we do travel for two weeks, and at the

899
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 4: end of that I think he assumes that during that

900
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 4: trip something happens, because now we're outside of fishy cash

901
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 4: and we're in hotel rooms. Nothing does during the trip.

902
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 4: But when we get back and it's several days, maybe

903
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 4: a week before I've got to fly back to New York,

904
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 4: and I'm like, is that it. I'm done learning. I

905
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 4: feel really different than when I arrived. I had the

906
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 4: huge boost in confidence. He's helped me even do like

907
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 4: a physical makeover. He's like encouraged me to buy new clothes,

908
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 4: to get like slimmer eyeglasses. I had like thicker glass

909
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 4: and he's like, let's get you slimmer lenses. I'm like,

910
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 4: I'm like a new new me. Yeah.

911
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: It's like the Princess Diaries in India.

912
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 7: You're yea, yeah yeah.

913
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 4: And I'm thinking this guy is awesome.

914
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.

915
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 4: I don't want to lose him, you know, I'm attached

916
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 4: to him. I'm hooked. And so that's when I go

917
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 4: and tell him. I'm like, look, I been your students

918
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 4: whole time, but these feelings have arisen and I think

919
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 4: I love you, and that's when he's like, he looks

920
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 4: completely different. His face is very calm. I don't know

921
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 4: what he's been doing before. I told him that to

922
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 4: change his demeanor, but he has changed it, and he says,

923
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 4: I understand you're rather you're my past wife, you're my

924
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 4: wife from a past life.

925
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: And you're just like, why haven't you told me that before?

926
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: As I would be. I think, you know, it was odd.

927
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 4: I think he he had all He almost preempted the

928
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 4: question interestingly by saying, you know, if you hadn't come

929
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 4: to me, I wouldn't have done anything.

930
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 7: He's gonna be the onus on me. R.

931
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 4: I created the intimate link. But now that you've recognized it,

932
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 4: here's why. And so I'm going my mind's kind of

933
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 4: blown away blown at that point because I'm like, okay,

934
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 4: so that's why I'm attracted to someone who's very inappropriate

935
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 4: for me because he's too old and also and my teacher.

936
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 4: So I'm you know, I thought he was going to

937
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 4: rebuke me and say, look no, like we're you're my student,

938
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 4: Like I was ready for that.

939
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 1: Which would have been the appropriate thing to do. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

940
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 4: Or even you know if he hadn't been a manipulator

941
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 4: looking back, when fuld say, he could have said, look,

942
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 4: you know, I know we spend a lot of time together.

943
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 4: These feelings have a risk, like whatever, he could have said, yeah, yeah,

944
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 4: But he plays the role and almost I think he

945
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 4: was getting ready for me to approach him one way

946
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 4: or another.

947
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 7: And can you say the one hundred and eighty years

948
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,959
Speaker 7: old thing? What was that? And when did you find

949
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 7: that out?

950
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 4: So before we traveled together for a couple of weeks

951
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 4: with the other couple. This is why I think that

952
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 4: he thought something might happen on the trip, because he

953
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 4: reveals again very secretly, like in the evening he's like, look,

954
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 4: I need to tell you something. And I remember his face.

955
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 4: He looked really somber, and he's like, I've been alive

956
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 4: for one hundred and eighty years and I'm going what

957
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 4: He's like, I'm in this body because I'm I mean,

958
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 4: I know you're old, but and he's like, no, like

959
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 4: in a different body. So he creates this kind of

960
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 4: words salads or confusing conte He's like, I lost my

961
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 4: original body, but I got another one. And the one

962
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 4: that I got belonged to a guy called Arun, so

963
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, he's not a room and he's

964
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 4: like a Roun was married to a woman and had

965
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 4: five kids, and that's how he introduced his Indian family.

966
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 4: He had an Indian family. But he's like, I've got

967
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 4: nothing to do with them. They don't recognize me as father,

968
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 4: you know, the kids don't think I'm their father. He

969
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 4: especially emphasized that the wife doesn't think I'm the husband

970
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 4: because she feels that the spirit isn't her husband's body.

971
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 4: So he gives me the story that the wife has

972
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 4: detected the anomaly, that it's her. But he says, but

973
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 4: you know, I am indebted to them.

974
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 7: Wow.

975
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's just rings so much of the prophets,

976
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: you know, the like fundamentalist Chris Mormon prophets who are

977
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: like I've received a revelation and then they tell you

978
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: the most confusing thing ever. But because you like already

979
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 2: kind of are into deep with them, and you're like, right, okay, yes,

980
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: uh huh, yes, the God said, that's just like revealing

981
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 2: new mysterious things, that's right.

982
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 4: And you then are doing the busy work of decoding.

983
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 4: Sorry I'm going to say this nonsense. Yeah, they're now

984
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 4: skewed out. But by the way, such manipulative nonsense, because

985
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 4: in one fell flop he's explained that there is a wife,

986
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 4: an Indian wife. There are kids. He supposedly doesn't like them,

987
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 4: but he's preparing me for essentially I'm going to be

988
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 4: having to send the money I'm going to be. That's

989
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 4: what he means by indebted. I'm you know, they depend

990
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: on me.

991
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: And you're just so primed from being in these ashurms

992
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: and being in this culture of not just an India,

993
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: but just your whole life, of these spiritual realities. I mean,

994
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: you were so shamed for asking is the crown of

995
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: Light even real? So I can, on one hand see

996
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: people being like, how could you believe that you're a

997
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: Harvard educated, extremely smart woman? But it makes sense in

998
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: the context of what you were taught and what you

999
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: wanted to believe.

1000
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 4: I think there's two things as well as like, I

1001
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 4: think sometimes you also connect. We connect with each other emotionally.

1002
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 4: So I was really wrapped up into him being like,

1003
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 4: I need to bring you in on something that's actually bad.

1004
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 4: He said. He's like, I pushed a run out. I'm

1005
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 4: going to what like, as you say it's so weird,

1006
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 4: but he so. But I'm sensing so I'm tapping into

1007
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 4: I'm thinking he needs me, but he needs me for

1008
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 4: the wrong reason. He does need me, He's right because

1009
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 4: he's going to need and use my money and my

1010
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: youth and whatever else he's going to tap into for years.

1011
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 4: But I'm feeling needed and loved. And I think that's

1012
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 4: the biggest con is that that I'm I'm feeling that,

1013
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 4: and then you're right. I think for me, I was

1014
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 4: I had elevated the spiritual realm from a young age

1015
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 4: to something really important, meaningful, and that was worth going after,

1016
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 4: even if it was a challenge, even if it didn't

1017
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 4: kind of fit the logical world. So it was almost

1018
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 4: what I like to say is people say, people have

1019
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 4: asked me, how could you believe he was one hundred

1020
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 4: and eighty years old? And I'm like, I didn't believe

1021
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 4: he was one hundred and eighty years old, But I think,

1022
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 4: as you said, I withheld disbelief and I tried to

1023
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 4: figure out what was he really telling me.

1024
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: It just is so similar to the revelations that the

1025
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: prophet quote that I believed in was saying to my mom,

1026
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: like it would just be like, and now I'm you

1027
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 2: get the secret new information, and I have decided you're

1028
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: worthy of being revealed or of it being revealed to

1029
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: you that I am actually the reincarnation of whatever the

1030
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: fuck from the past. And there's just so much of

1031
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: that like secret revealing stuff that they can only do

1032
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: once you are emotionally connected to them and invested in

1033
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: them and already sort of like believing that they're some

1034
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 2: kind of authority. They could never lead with that. They

1035
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: have to wait until you are deep enough in that

1036
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, he wouldn't lie to me, so this

1037
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: must be true absolutely.

1038
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 4: And by then I've been practicing the meditations that he's

1039
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 4: taught me that in and of themselves are you know,

1040
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're good or bad, but they

1041
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 4: do put you in this very intense, almost self hypnotic

1042
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 4: state because you're doing very controlled breathing. You're pulling up,

1043
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 4: you know, your pelvic muscles and your abdominal muscles in

1044
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 4: as you're breathing in He's asked me to put my

1045
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 4: chin to my chest so like my neck is extended

1046
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 4: for the whole of the breathing. So that's like the

1047
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 4: specific thing he's asked, And I do wonder, looking back

1048
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 4: if the fact that I valued the meditations in some

1049
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 4: ways even more than him because they had supposedly come

1050
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 4: from Baba Gee and they were like the most important thing,

1051
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 4: and you were feeling the world, you know, through your

1052
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 4: meditations and by the way, doing great stuff for yourself. Also,

1053
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 4: this kind of combination, I feel like, buying into the

1054
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 4: meditations and doing them so religiously for years is how

1055
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 4: one of the ways that I was vulnerable and susceptible

1056
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 4: in saying these other things.

1057
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about the story is that

1058
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: there were several things that had happened even when you

1059
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: were a child, Like you had gone to a let's

1060
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: call him a guru's room and he told you what

1061
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: number you are thinking of and what image you were

1062
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: thinking of. You were thinking of seven, you were thinking

1063
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: of a rose, and now you are told that I

1064
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 1: forgot exactly how you put it. But it was like

1065
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: a not would appear at your perineum, and it actually happened.

1066
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: So what is this phenomenon? How is it happening? Because

1067
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, what you know, I get lost in the magic.

1068
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was interesting. He had taught me to tighten

1069
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 4: and release the paranegm, you know, at the the pelvic muscle,

1070
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 4: and maybe physiologically that muscle develops and then it conot.

1071
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 4: I'm sure that's allowed.

1072
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: It because yeah, he was like, as soon as the

1073
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: not appears, you'll know it's working. And you're like, oh,

1074
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: there's actually a nott there, because I would be like, whoa,

1075
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, and I was a bit right.

1076
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 4: I was like yeah, like and I guess they have

1077
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 4: to give you these confirmatory signs yes, and some of

1078
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 4: them are physicals, and like I was getting so some

1079
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 4: of the stuff we were doing around you know, the

1080
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 4: bam boostic exercises, and then like at some point we

1081
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 4: were doing sit ups and then I don't, as I

1082
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 4: Gotsnoma said, I want to learn to do push ups.

1083
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 4: Like there were things that were there's this mixture of pragmatism,

1084
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 4: like so you do enough sit ups and you know

1085
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 4: you realuable titan and it's like you pull in your

1086
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 4: paraname and it may that muscle development may come. So

1087
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 4: I think there is this mixture of some practical things,

1088
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 4: so it's not completely out there.

1089
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 2: I mean, we hear so many people talk about having

1090
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 2: a transcendent spiritual experience or whatever when they've been meditating

1091
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: for sixteen hours that they were told they were going

1092
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 2: to have. But so much of that is very likely

1093
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: to happen when you are doing what you had just

1094
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: been doing. And again, like with other kinds of self

1095
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: proclaimed profits, it's kind of the same thing. They'll say

1096
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 2: that something's going to happen that was obviously going to happen,

1097
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 2: but they're counting on their students not necessarily knowing that

1098
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,240
Speaker 2: that's like a relatively predictable thing. And then also, of course,

1099
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 2: our bodies can do crazy things when we're expecting them

1100
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 2: to do particular things. Our bodies and minds are capable

1101
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 2: of a lot of different stuff depending on what we're expecting.

1102
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 7: And the rose and the seventh thing.

1103
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: A guru said he knew what you were thinking, and

1104
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 2: it was a rose and it was of the number seven.

1105
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: And I just want to add that mentalists are very

1106
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 2: skilled at doing this, and it's a very pretty classic

1107
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: magic trick.

1108
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 4: Apparently it's just the law of probabilities.

1109
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, there, mentalism is fascinating to me, and that's what

1110
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: we don't have to get into that.

1111
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 7: But there's all kinds of ways to prime the mind.

1112
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 4: Actually, now let you say it, because I've met this

1113
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 4: particular swami who was in white in a luxurious apartment,

1114
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 4: and whether there were bunches of roses now that you say,

1115
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 4: all you know, in a couple of plays in this

1116
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 4: apartment before, I'm just I never thought about this before

1117
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 4: this exact minute, but something like that. I don't know

1118
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 4: where the number seven might have been climbed, but.

1119
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: There's probably seven roses. Let's let's be honest like this.

1120
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, well.

1121
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: That's it right.

1122
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 4: Which, by the way, this particular swami Chang Sam, the

1123
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 4: first person that I meet in Delhi when I arrived

1124
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 4: in India, before we even meet a room, before James

1125
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 4: and I go anywhere else, who's a very dangerous man.

1126
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 4: He had a ring of like basically I think a

1127
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 4: human like a sex trafficking ring of women that he

1128
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 4: was feeding into politicians and rich people. And he was

1129
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 4: within the time that I knew a room, apprehended and

1130
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 4: put in jail for this. So you know, likes you

1131
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,800
Speaker 4: said using this mentalism, but then for for definitely in

1132
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 4: a very nefarious ends. But he alarms me. Talk about

1133
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 4: what Lola said, not making sure when you drop something

1134
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 4: in he drops in the sex stuff so early that

1135
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 4: I am completely and I'm convinced not nothing. He wants

1136
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 4: me to have sext people that he's going to kill me.

1137
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 4: You know, I just it goes from like zero to ten,

1138
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 4: like I'm just so afraid of this guy. And then

1139
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,439
Speaker 4: we run away, run away. We leave the next day,

1140
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 4: but very surreptitiously. I'm afraid that because he's got these

1141
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 4: armed guards around his ashroom, so I'm afraid that we

1142
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 4: won't be able to leave. So yeah, there's it's be careful, listener,

1143
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 4: go anywhere.

1144
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: And this is the mentalist, the mentalist one, not run no.

1145
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 4: Sorry, yeah, this is the mentalist one. I think. The

1146
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 4: only reason, well, one of the reasons significant is that

1147
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 4: it explains how Roun was so much more subtle and

1148
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 4: friendly in his approach. So I'm going, okay, he's no Chandraswamy,

1149
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 4: this guy is okay.

1150
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, And he says, like, you tell him this

1151
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: story and he's like, oh my god, Arena's like, that's

1152
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: the most evil thing a man can do is to

1153
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: take advantage of children and women. And women are the

1154
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: most magical things in the universe and they give life

1155
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: and men are you know, pretty much nothing compared to them,

1156
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, cool.

1157
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 4: I'm like absolutely these guys in luck. Yeah.

1158
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 5: Right.

1159
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: Once he reveals to you that you were his wife

1160
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: in a prior life, I mean, does that transform into

1161
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: like a committed life together, like describe that process.

1162
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he reveals that to me. We end

1163
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 4: up becoming romantically involved in the last few days before

1164
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 4: I go back to New York City, and I, yeah,

1165
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 4: it happens quickly because I think all the emotional prep

1166
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 4: work has been done. So once we're physically together and

1167
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 4: then I leave him, then I begin to miss him

1168
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 4: pretty much. When I return to New York City. The

1169
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 4: contrast between the life I've been having in India, this

1170
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 4: life will basically travel and slow living and yoga and

1171
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 4: vegetarian food. Then I get back to New York City

1172
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 4: and it's like bustle, you know, people rushing to work,

1173
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 4: and you know, it's just the contrast is so start

1174
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 4: that I'm disoriented and then miss him because I'm back

1175
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 4: at home and I don't think clearly about next steps.

1176
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 4: But at that point, I just want to go back

1177
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 4: to India and I want to use the rest of

1178
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 4: my travel grant because I've been given a year to

1179
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 4: travel and I've used half of it. And I've also

1180
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 4: postponed starting work at a business consulting firm in Cambridge, Massachusetts,

1181
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 4: where my heart wasn't into that work, but I was

1182
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 4: very excited to have a job and be able to

1183
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 4: pay my way through right after college. And so it's

1184
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 4: a toss up and I say, no, I really need

1185
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 4: to see a Roon again. That's where I revealed to

1186
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 4: my mom that I'm going back, and she questions why,

1187
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 4: and I say, I'm not done learning. Wow.

1188
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,439
Speaker 1: Stick around after the show to hear Lola's newest song,

1189
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: but for now, and as always, remember to follow your gut.

1190
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: Watch out for Rad Flagg's and never ever trust Me.

1191
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: Hi Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp

1192
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 2: and Steve Delamator.

1193
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para, and her theme song

1194
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: was composed by Holly amber Church. You can find us

1195
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: on Instagram at trust Me Podcast, Twitter at trust Me

1196
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: Cult Pod, or on TikTok at trust Me Cult Podcast.

1197
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 7: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1198
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1199
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1200
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 7: Remember to rate and review and spread the.

1201
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 8: Word the incredos ringin oom whoa she me she shriwingcoaspudom.

1202
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 8: To be room for the thoughts you filled with them

1203
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 8: when you've finally gone A.

1204
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:05,439
Speaker 1: Couldn't trol.

1205
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 3: You'll constant voice, good mind told me why I should

1206
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 3: be someone sister every night I couldn't listening to your

1207
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 3: license in my mind, I I well, now I see.

1208
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: Come, sex is good.

1209
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 8: What have you heard?

1210
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 4: The tree, the.

1211
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 5: Silence ah, some peace in choie uh, the silence uh,

1212
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 5: some peace in.

1213
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 9: Choir, the old, the mothers absence of your.

1214
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: Face, the one sell me.

1215
01:01:54,240 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 6: Resastede mom mistakes, my god, feel quiet, love, some bruise.

1216
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 3: There's no beauty like the beauty dic.

1217
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 9: You call, just a voice and go to me like

1218
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 9: I say, miss sister, and every life I could listening.

1219
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 4: To you a sign my mind.

1220
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 5: Now I see sex and is good.

1221
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 8: What have you ever joyed?

1222
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 5: The silence, some peace and quiet, the silence some peace

1223
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 5: and quiet, quiet quiet, sh quiet, sh quiet.

1224
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 7: Quiet quiet. No, I can be.

1225
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 10: Uh louder uh louder uh louder uh louder uh louder

1226
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 10: uh louder uh louder.

1227
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 9: Loader.

1228
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: Loder.

1229
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 5: Some peace and quiet, the silence, Some peace and quiet,

1230
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 5: the silence, some fucking sid