WEBVTT - #435 Jason Flom with Chris Smith 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.880 On October seventeenth, two thousand and seven, Chris Smith was 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:08.959 on parole for a previous robbery conviction when an armed 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.440 robbery happened at a Cincinnati Bell wireless store in his area. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.880 A disguised sail at brandishing a gun commanded the customers 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.360 to hit the floor and demanded all the money for 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.000 the register before fleeing in a Blue Ford Expedition. The 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.440 owner of that car Chrismis's girlfriend. Soon after the robbery, 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.920 the Blue Expedition was all over the news, and Chris 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.320 texted his girlfriend to report the vehicle stolen. As police 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.199 were preparing to arrest him, Chris fled to the apartment 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.000 of an old friend, Charles Allen, where he removed his 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.440 ankle monitor. It wasn't long before Chris was arrested, prosecuted, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.320 and convicted by circumstantial evidence that was so powerful it 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:53.040 overwhelmed physical evidence to the contrary. After all, he'd done 0:00:53.080 --> 0:01:08.800 things like this before. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:13.959 back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's episode features some circumstantial evidence 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.400 that definitely twists somebody's head around. If you were sitting 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.560 on a jury so fasting your seatbelt, this is a 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:25.040 crazy story. I'm really honored to have the people here 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.200 to tell it, including the man himself who lived this 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.440 night mare, Chris Smith. So, Chris, it's about time we 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.520 did this, and I'm glad you're here. Welcome to the show. 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:35.360 Thank you honor to be here. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.800 And with him is his attorney, Michelle Berry Godsey, who 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.760 actually began her career, as I understand that at the 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.479 Ohio and isis project with this case. So Michelle, thanks for. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:47.840 Being here, Thanks for having me. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.080 And of course it'll surprise exactly no one that we 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.680 have another case out of Ohio, because man, Ohio it's 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.560 you know, it's at Yeah, with all due respect to 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.120 anybody who lives there, but in terms of justice it 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.040 ain't great. And Avid Listener knows that because we have 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.760 really the high proportional cases out of Ohio. But before 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.200 we get into that part of the story, Chris, what 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.600 was your life like? I understand you were a musician, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.000 had a couple of kids growing up in Cincinnati. Is 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:18.200 all that accurate? 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.800 Yes, sir, seven year old son and just had darted 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:23.640 with seven months when all this happened. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.880 What kind of music would you play? What was your thing? 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.120 So I was a hip hop artist and a writer 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.280 as well. I was discovered by a manager who signed 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.200 boy band Youngstown, discovered Neo and gave me an opportunity, 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.400 took me out to LA and they had me as 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.160 the next big thing. And so I was writing with Neo, 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:48.559 Mike Citi, Shinghi, working with Polly Paul Grammy nominated producers 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.560 and things like that. So I was on my way. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.120 Before making this progress in the music industry. Chris had 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.200 a prior robbery conviction, but by two thousand and seven 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.919 he had served his time and was living cleanly on parole. Then, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.920 on October seventeenth, two thousand and seven, at around three 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.960 forty pm, a man wearing a wig, sunglasses, and his 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.560 T shirt collar pulled up over his mouth, ran into 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.600 a Cincinnati Bell wireless store with a gun, ordered the 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.280 customers to the ground, told the manager to empty the 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.680 cash register, and fled with about eight hundred dollars in 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.880 a blue Ford expedition. So, with his prior conviction, in 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:28.280 addition to some other circumstantial evidence, Chris became a prime suspect. 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:33.200 The police in the area admitted that they immediately suspected 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:37.680 Chris and his brother Ricky Now Ricky was lucky because 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.520 he was actually in the county jail at the time 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:45.640 on some petty drug possession thing, so he immediately was eliminated. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.600 But they still latched onto Chris simply because he was 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.080 on parole at the time and they knew that he 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.560 lived in this area. So that's one thing. The second 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:59.360 thing is it was known fairly early on that the 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.960 get Us truck that was used the blue Ford expedition 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.920 it was traced to his girlfriend at the time, who 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.280 told the police that she had basically given the truck 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.800 to Chris for his personal use. So those two things 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.800 don't look good on Chris. But the bigger picture that 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.479 was really unfolding here, like you mentioned, this was the 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.720 robbery of a Cincinni Bell wireless store. There was one 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.640 eyewitness to this crime and he was across the street 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.440 driving and he saw the man run out of the 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.360 store carrying a laptop. He believed it was a laptop, 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.200 that's what he told on the nine one one call 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:39.599 and described the gunman as a light skinned black man. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:44.080 And even knowing how this caller had described the gunman, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:50.000 police came to the scene with lineups already matching Chris's description. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:51.920 Chris, have you ever been a light skinned man? 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.360 No, I've been pretty dark on my life. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.400 I'm glad you pointed that out. So the robber hopped 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.240 in this getaway car, a blue Ford expedition. The a 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.680 nine to one one caller tried to follow him but 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.360 lost the truck, and soon police were on the scene 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.240 and they found the truck along with the robbers costume. 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.280 So this was two thousand and seven. Everyone knew at 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.119 that point to do DNA testing. That testing did occur 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.040 before trial, but happened a little bit further down the. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:24.200 Line before the DNA testing. During the immediate aftermath. Chris 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.440 was the focus of the investigation, something that became clear 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.479 to him when he recognized the truck that he shared 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.440 with his girlfriend on the five o'clock news. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.960 On a breaking news story. You're looking at it, You're like, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.920 hold on, wait a minute, Like what do I do? 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.719 And so when you're from the city hood whatever you 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.080 want to call it is just like, you don't call 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:47.120 the police because grow up not to trust the police. Right. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.880 So I'm reaching out to the person who named the 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.120 truck is in and I'm like, listen, I didn't do this. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:54.480 So report this stolen. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.120 And we ended up getting Chris's text messages at the 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.159 exact moment that this new story aired, so we had 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.880 that in our favor to show, but no one ended 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.040 up caring with. 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.680 The circumstantial even it's available. It wasn't long before police 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.000 began surrounding Chris's apartment. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:16.120 And so you see all these plain clothes officers around 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.839 the properties. Then you have my daughter Mom in there, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.599 who was with me years prior when I went to 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.080 jail the same way, right, So she's remembering this. So 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.560 it's a lot of trauma and stuff going on, and she's, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.000 oh my god, you have to go, and I'm like, go, 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.000 not I didn't do nothing. So I'm thinking, like, okay, 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.400 what can I do? I don't just want to run. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.680 Chris had to be more proactive about clearing his name 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.360 beyond reporting the vehicle stolen. After all, he had lent 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.120 it to an old friend, Charles Allen. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.279 So I'm trapped between the rock and a hard place. 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.560 I'm a rapper, a street rapper at that. I'm talking 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.560 about gangster stuff at the time, Right, I can't call 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.560 the police and say such and such did it my 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:02.039 credibility yet be done. Career be over with. So I 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.479 have to do it in the creative way because I 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.040 got all this good stuff going for me, and then 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.320 I have the cold. And so what I do was 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:15.600 call my parole officer immediately, and I got a GPS monitor, right, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.280 So it's two parts of the GPS, so no one 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.200 is confused. You have the box where I have to 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.840 download my data from the GPS, which is important that 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.040 I left at my house for my parole officer to get. 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.160 Then you have the actual ankle tracker that's tracking you 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.720 everywhere you go. That's on my ankle at the time. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.960 And so what I do was tell my parole officer listen, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:44.800 you could find my tracking device downstairs. But I still 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.120 have the ankle monitor on now. 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.800 His parole officer was in possession of Chris his alibi evidence, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.400 which proved his whereabouts at the time of the crime, 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.760 while Chris went ahead and made contact with Charles Allen. 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.560 I call this guy, bru, What did you do with 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.840 my up bron will tell you about to come to 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.320 the place. I go to his place. 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.320 Wait, how did you get past the detectives that were 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:08.720 outside the undercovers? 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.880 It's different cuts and stuff you could go. His mom 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.400 stays like, probably like a mile away. So I went there, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.080 cut off my ankle monitor there, thinking my ankle thing 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.800 will be tracked here, right, and maybe this will lead 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.600 to people to the right guy. He's telling me the story, 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.400 who's involved. I'll call my brother, call my team. They like, listen, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.880 get out of there, come here, let's figure this out. 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.199 And then I went right. And the whole time I'm 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:40.120 in communication with my parole officer. I'm cooperating, getting information, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.400 and they saying, well, they retrieved the costume and this 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.080 and that, and the first thing I said was, run 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.840 a DNA. You have all this stuff, run a DNA 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:51.120 and please let me know. 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.839 Thankfully, they found all three pieces, the wig, the sunglasses, 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.360 and there was a black T shirt that the robber 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.800 was using to pull up over the lower half of 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:05.720 his face. Ultimately, those items were tested and came back 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.200 to exclude Chris and identify this man, Charles Allen. So 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.280 the one eyewitness described the gunman as a light skinned 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.640 black man, and Charles Allen, the man that was ultimately 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.760 identified being a light skinned man. It's always the first 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.800 thing people describe him as. That's the way he's described 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.880 in his file with the Hamilton County Police Department. Chris 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.600 ultimately did say in an interview before the DNA test 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.080 was conducted that he loaned his truck to Charles Allen. 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.640 He said what he looks like. He also said light skinned. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.400 In short, all of the fingerprints also excluded Chris, and 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.720 three of them came back to Charles Allen. He was 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.760 in the APHIS system. So they had Charles Allen from 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:57.160 Chris's mouth, from fingerprints GPS, they had a description from 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.640 a neutral eyewitness of a light skinned man that matches 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:05.240 Charles Allen. They finally did the DNA testing and boom, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:09.640 it's also Charles Allen. All of this was known before 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:14.920 Chris's trial. No one was interested in going after Charles Allen. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.360 I mean word on a street seas he was helping 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:23.040 them with more bigger things gang stuff, murders, organized crime 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.520 and things like that. That's why he was given immunity. 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.880 It starts with circumstantial evidence against Chris, and then it 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:36.760 turns into literally the easiest case to solve. Literally, Jesus 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.120 could have popped up and said, that's the guy who 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.720 did it. And it seems like the judge throwing a went, sorry, Jesus, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.559 I got a different idea. I mean, and this was 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.080 a bench trial. Now we got to talk about that too. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.760 But first of all, of course, it's Hamilton County and 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.280 we know they have a history of hiding overwhelming evidence 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.880 of innocence, for instance Elwood Jones, who we interviewed on 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.880 this podcast. So Hamilton County very notorious. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.079 The head prosecutor, of course, was Joe Dieters, the district 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.480 attorney at the time, but the actual line prosecutor doing 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.240 the case it was a guy named Clay Tharp. It 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.679 wasn't the usual suspects of Seth Ti or Pete Meyer. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.720 Chris, how did you end up with Michelle? An attorney 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.760 who actually could defend you, which a lot of people 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:18.520 don't even have that. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.760 I had an attorney that people was trying to get 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.680 me to work with, one that's been practicing law for 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.960 thirty plus years. I really didn't trust this lawyer. And 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.160 Michelle was there seeing someone else. She was up on 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.800 our floor in a bullpen, and I seen her and 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.040 then I just seen the energy and I'm like, okay, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.000 she looked like she's fairly no. I needed somebody fresh 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.120 that was going to actually fight for me, and I'm 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.080 not taking no plea deal, right. So I approached Michelle 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:49.760 and I just sat down with her and I was 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.679 telling her about the situation. She was like, Yeah, I 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.440 love to take this case, and this probably like one 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.280 of the best decisions I made, even though I was convicted, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.880 because I think no matter what attorney I had, I 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.559 would have been convicted at this point because they was 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.320 just so deep and put so much in their eggs 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.480 in one basket that it was no turning back. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.839 What they were going to try to say to still 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.800 say that this was Chris was to say that because 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:19.720 Chris and Charles knew each other, that somehow Charles's DNA 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.640 just briefly rubbed off on the costumes and somehow Chris 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.320 just got lucky and wasn't on it. So for that reason, 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:32.000 we had specifically requested the lab notes and all the 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.199 data underlying the DNA testing, but that was never turned 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:37.400 over at the time of trial. 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.120 In addition to demanding the DNA testing and underlying data, 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.079 they turned their sights on Charles Allen. 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.840 Chris, and I worked with a private detective to wire 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.920 up Chris's brother Ricky to go talk to Charles the 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.720 strategy where we were using is Ricky would feed him 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.280 some wrong facts and see if Charles would like correct 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.079 it since he was there and he knew would he 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.240 did so, Remember I said the eyewitness said he saw 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.840 the gunman come out carrying a laptop. It actually was 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.280 a cash registered drawer, but the eyewitness thought it was 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.160 a laptop. So Ricky, when he's wired up, says to Charles, 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.480 they're saying that Chris was coming out of the store 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.920 carrying a laptop, and Charles says, on the recording, I 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.280 wasn't carrying a motherfucking laptop. It was a cash drawer. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:30.400 First person, I wasn't carrying a motherfucking laptop. It was 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.480 a cash drawer. So we have this on recording. We 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.600 have eventually additional recordings to this, but we're like, okay, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.040 well this is rock solid now. 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.360 And of course it ends up as a bench trial 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.360 with Judge Robert Ruhlman, which I'm curious to know how 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:45.600 that decision was made. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:50.440 So Cincinnati, the criminal justice community here is like everybody 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:56.480 knows everybody. So I was talking to every criminal defense 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.920 attorney and universally, the one thing to know about Robert 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.120 Ruhlman is if he takes you back in chambers and 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.559 is talking with you about the case and he says, 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.680 this sounds like a bench trial, that is your signal 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.520 that he is going to acquit your person. But at 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.439 that time he had been on the bench for decades. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:21.200 I think people get so inundated in the system unless 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.080 they are actively checking themselves. They get a mindset that 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.800 they can just judge a case and that they just 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.440 know what the right answer is. And so despite that, 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.720 I think Robert Ruhlman is a good person and he 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.720 used his This looks like a bench trial to me, 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.680 he conned us and the reason that happened. Although this 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.320 played out after the fact, this was not far from 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.760 his neighborhood and the police in that area talked with 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.160 him frequently about the crime in that area of town. 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.920 And I think that, like Chris was saying, this would 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.160 have happened with any attorney, because he was going to 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:03.680 commit Chris no matter what. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.360 So trial began in two thousand and eight and the 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.240 state presented their theory about Charles and Chris committing the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.800 robbery together, Charles as the driver and Chris donned in 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.720 the costume and holding up to Cincinnati Bell wireless store. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.360 The eyewitness testified about what he saw, as well as 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.240 Chris's girlfriend, saying that she had basically given him the expedition. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.520 So the whole trial is playing out, all the DNA 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.280 is presented. Sure enough, the state tries to go with 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.280 this theory that Chris just got lucky that his DNA 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.120 didn't rub off, and Charles somehow got unlucky that his 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.840 DNA did rub off when he somehow briefly touched these items. 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.040 So the state closed their case. We put on our case, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.760 and the state ended up calling Charles Allen as a 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.760 rebuttal witness. And I was hoping this is exactly what 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.360 would happen, that he would somehow be called on the stand, 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.800 because I got to present his statements to him. Now, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.320 of course, these had already been played in court and 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.880 he wasn't there to hear them. Four people had already 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.880 identified his voice on them. But unsurprisingly he's like, that's 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:16.240 not my voice. So that day he was waiting in 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.760 the jail to be called as a witness in this trial, 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.280 and I got his recorded calls. The first call he makes, 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.520 he starts complaining that he's salty that Ricky wired up 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.680 on him and recorded him talking about the robbery. So 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.080 when he's on the stand saying that's not my voice. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.000 I got to then play for him the recording of 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.680 him saying, man, I'm so salty that Ricky wired up 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.880 on me and recorded me, to make it very obvious 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.080 that this actually is him. In addition, Chris called him 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.760 many times and got him to talk about things too. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.960 You got him to say that he would meet with 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.160 me his attorney, to describe other people who were there. 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.000 He made other dominating statements like they must be paying 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.400 the witnesses to say that Chris did this because they 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:05.199 know that he didn't. 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.680 You can't be a worse criminal than this guy, right, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.800 And now here you are at trial, you're watching this 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.679 unfold and it comes to the moment that the judge 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:15.879 is going to make his ruling. 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.080 We all knew that I was through. It's very rare 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.000 to go to trial as a defendant and prove your innocence, 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.960 not just raising the doubt. Right. And it's like the 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.240 harder Michelle went for me, the more irritated this judge became. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.879 And it was just a lot of comments and how 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.720 he said to Michelle, well, you did a great job. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.159 For a public defender are Yeah, this is not the 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:43.240 futuitive movie. It's like he said so many sly comments 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.520 and convicting me and giving me twenty eight years for 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.240 robbery when no one was hurt. To go to jail 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.520 period is something. But to be given all that time 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.720 for something didn't do, it's just a whole nother feeling. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.720 It's the whole conditioning of it, right. It goes beyond 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.800 just the wrong for conviction, right, the conditioning of it, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.800 from the time you walk into the county jail, how 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.720 they have you stand, how they process you, taking you 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.600 to a floor where you sit in here all day, 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.119 let you out, take you to the bullpen, go to court, 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.080 sing you up to another thing. One call is about 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.879 that control, and it gets in your mind to tell 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.840 you this is your life, this is all you work. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.600 Don't expect nothing more, right, And so you do this 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.120 for years and years, and you just conditioned to feel 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.560 like shit, to feel like you nothing, to feel like 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.520 you don't deserve nothing more from being an adult and 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.480 having correctional officers have a key to yourself that's ten 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.600 fifteen years younger than you, and you have to say 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.000 miss such and such or CEO, and it dehumanizes you. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.560 And so you go through that for years and years 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.280 to where it becomes a part of you, right shaping 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.520 me into who I became or who I am today. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.240 So how do you find balance of staying true to 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.680 who you are but surviving this right? Because I knew 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.520 I was coming home and I just didn't know when. 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.040 Because I knew I had a fighter with Michelle, I 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.160 knew I had a great organization such as the op 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.520 with me. I'm one of the fortunate ones that came 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.600 home with an opportunity to get back into society, to 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.840 have the humanity back in the store. And I found 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:43.320 myself coming home from work and coming in and confining 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.840 myself to my bedroom just at one space when I 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:50.399 got two floors, because I'm like unconsciously conditioned to be 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.320 right here just in the bed, having a refrigerator full 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.399 of food but only eating chips and news. Like. I 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.800 really went through this phase for at least ninety days, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.679 and I woke up one day. I was making some 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.520 noodles for breakfast, Raymond noodles, and I was stirring the 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.320 noodles and I'm the only one in here, and I 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.440 was like, oh, shit, I'm really eating noodles at ten 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.040 o'clock in the morning, made the noodles and took them 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.320 back in my room, like I had to go there. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.439 That's what my incarceration did. I took a lot. I 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.639 went through a life. My mom died, which was my 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.760 best friend, only one of the main supports I had, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.080 and me not being able to go to her funeral 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.920 and listening to it from a jail phone, and things 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.480 like that, missing your children grow up and all this, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.840 and so you like, you have to deal with it 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.600 because you don't want to come out out of this 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.880 thing destroyed. 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:44.959 And so many of the stories we hear as our 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.360 guest struggle with prison life. They also typically received denials 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:52.000 on their direct appeals. While exonerating information remains hidden. But 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.480 in Chris's case, Chris already had Michelle and they knew 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.680 what they needed to do, and still it took twelve 0:20:58.760 --> 0:20:59.800 long years. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.320 After Chris was convicted. One of the things I was 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.320 hell bent on doing was getting the data underlying the 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.440 DNA evidence, and my expert re ran all the tests. 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.840 So she retested the wig, the sunglasses, and the T 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.159 shirt and it showed from her lab notes and the 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.679 state's lab notes that were withheld during his trial that 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:27.240 Charles Allen's DNA was present across the board fourteen out 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.359 of fifteen and fifteen out of fifteen low SI on 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.320 the wig and the T shirt the sunglasses. The States 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:39.360 testing came back inconclusive, but my expert post trial came 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.600 back and also identified Charles Allens. We were able to 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:44.960 have a post conviction hearing and present all of this 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.879 evidence and get it in the record also with Judge 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:52.240 Ruhlman and my expert. She explained that contrary to the 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.360 state's theory that that is not consistent with somebody who 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.160 just briefly handles something, especially a wig. You think about 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.640 if you just touch wig, you're touching like the outside 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.600 of it, the inner part that touches your head when 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.760 you're wearing it was heavily present with his DNA, and 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.960 so was the shirt. And she explained that this is 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.840 evidence that Charles Allen was wearing these items. And we 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.440 were before the same judge that convicted Chris, and he said, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.680 on the record, Okay, I understand the evidence. The evidence 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.560 shows that Chris isn't the one who committed this robbery, 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.800 but I think he was involved somehow, So I'm going 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.399 to deny this motion and keep his convictions in place, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.600 which is insane, truly insane, because the state's theory from 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.440 start to finish and even to that point, was that 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.120 Chris was the one who wore the costume and came 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:51.480