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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guests today are Ursus mcgona and Raf Lousey of

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Speaker 1: twenty five to seven Media. Gentlemen, what is twenty five

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Speaker 1: to seven Media?

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Speaker 2: Whose place to work? Man?

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Speaker 1: Okay, just so people can distinguish the voices, this is Raf.

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Speaker 3: Hello, guys. Twenty five seven Media is a company that's

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Speaker 3: entranced in digital and internet culture. We work with influencers, musicians,

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Speaker 3: and we try to create different moments on the Internet

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Speaker 3: than now. We're starting to spill over in real life,

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Speaker 3: and people like Bob and people in the music industry

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Speaker 3: have taken kind of interest.

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Speaker 1: Too, versus something to add to that.

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Speaker 2: That's second all that, and I'll say it again, it's

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Speaker 2: the coolest place to work. And yeah, I'm really happy

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Speaker 2: that best friends just really believed in each other and

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Speaker 2: believed in the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Well, how long have you guys known each other?

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Speaker 2: We've known each other for about five six years now.

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Speaker 2: And then the other founder, Andrew, I've known him for

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Speaker 2: twelve years. So yeah, it's it's a trio. But right

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Speaker 2: now it's just me and Raf.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you guys are experts on social media. Let's talk generally,

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Speaker 1: what do people not understand about social media that you guys.

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Speaker 2: Know, I think people are trying to overcomplicate it. There's

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Speaker 2: kind of three different people that don't get it. It's

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Speaker 2: either unfortunately an agism thing. There's people that don't think

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Speaker 2: it's a tool that they can use. They think it's

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Speaker 2: only for celebrities or for people that have a nick

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Speaker 2: on it. And then thirdly it's businesses that aren't really

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Speaker 2: implementing it correctly. But in reality, every generation has a

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Speaker 2: tool or a way to connect with people, and this

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Speaker 2: is the best way to connect with people at the moment.

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Speaker 2: And so with that being said, we constantly look for

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Speaker 2: new ways to make sure that whether it's an artist

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Speaker 2: or a creator, finds the newest way to connect with

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Speaker 2: people so that they can interact and obviously eventually monetize.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go through the varying social media platforms. Snapchat,

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Speaker 1: to what degree does that mean anything in terms of business?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure that they're looking at that billion

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Speaker 2: and they might have want you know, they might have

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Speaker 2: wanted to take it, but Snapchat is actually very underrated

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Speaker 2: right now. It's very underrated, and we actually have experimented

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Speaker 2: a lot with it. I'll let rap talk about it

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Speaker 2: a little bit. But the way that I see social

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Speaker 2: media platform when it's dying is people tend to think like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's no longer there, da Dad, Like, let's

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Speaker 2: move away, let's move the ad dollars away. But until

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Speaker 2: that platform is completely dead, there's a lack of competition.

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Speaker 2: And so what that means is that when there's a

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Speaker 2: lack of competition and the lack of content, the platforms

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Speaker 2: will actually pay more dollars for you to have high quality,

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Speaker 2: engaging content there. So there's kids that are making a

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Speaker 2: killing on Snapchat. They're making one hundred thousand dollars a

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Speaker 2: month on Snapchat because Snapchat has a functionality that allows

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Speaker 2: you to pay creators through a lottery system when they

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Speaker 2: gain a certain amount of views. So the less competition

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Speaker 2: there is there, the people that are crushing it on

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Speaker 2: Snapchat are actually making a ton And Snapchat is actually

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Speaker 2: a little bit more intimate than your normal platforms because

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Speaker 2: it feels like you're actually texting someone. It feels like

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Speaker 2: you have someone's number, and it's a little bit more intimate.

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Speaker 2: And gen Z is actually very very into Snapchat more

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Speaker 2: than millennials because millennials want to show you their beautiful

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Speaker 2: feed and their beautiful life. That isn't really true, but

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Speaker 2: gen Z wants to connect with people on a one

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Speaker 2: to one level and Snapchat provides that for them. But

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Speaker 2: you want to talk a little bit about some experiments

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Speaker 2: we've done with Snapchat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So Snapchat is it's more in an authenticity tool.

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Speaker 3: So every platform has its own thing. Instagram is a resume,

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Speaker 3: so you have to cheat your Instagram like a resume.

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Speaker 3: Snapchat is about authenticity. TikTok is about a lot short

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Speaker 3: form videos that we're supposed to be on YouTube, but

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Speaker 3: you're doing trailer videos on TikTok to then hopefully take

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Speaker 3: themto YouTube, and then YouTube to this day is still

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Speaker 3: the holy grail out of really all social media. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: that's where you find music, that's where you find long

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Speaker 3: form content, that's where you find short form content. Is

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Speaker 3: just YouTube was so late at creating the playlist and

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Speaker 3: the user generated experience that Spotify and Apple did. That's

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Speaker 3: why it didn't overtake in music as well. But until

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Speaker 3: someone is able to kill off YouTube and their long

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Speaker 3: form their long form video with Spotify, try to do.

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Speaker 3: They just didn't execute at a high level. YouTube is

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Speaker 3: still the king of all media. That's where you want

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Speaker 3: to drive all your traffls.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's get back to YouTube, Twitter and thread Twitter

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Speaker 1: X they mean anything in your world.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely well Threads Unfortunately it doesn't. But I think, like,

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Speaker 2: what was the statistic they released the other day, like

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Speaker 2: eighty two percent or something of the people that created

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Speaker 2: the threads account and no longer using it. It's dropping

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Speaker 2: off even more. I think the point of threads was

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Speaker 2: just for Instagram to show the world that, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: if we launch a product, people are going to sign up.

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Speaker 2: I think that that to me, that's what the statement was.

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Speaker 2: But no, X is still very relevant. Again, it's a X.

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Speaker 2: It's it's a hybrid between Snapchat and Instagram where people

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Speaker 2: want to express their authentic opinions. Uh, it's more of

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Speaker 2: a texting like texting posts. And also the discoverability on

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Speaker 2: video is becoming a priority for X, so discoverability for video. Eventually,

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Speaker 2: I think it'll move a little bit more into live

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Speaker 2: streaming as we saw what they did with FIFA, but

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Speaker 2: it's a different type of audio I think right now. Uh,

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Speaker 2: some platforms are separating not only for usability but also

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Speaker 2: for audience. So you know, if you're on X, you

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Speaker 2: don't mind, you know, a controversial take here there, you

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Speaker 2: don't mind, you know some of the things that are

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Speaker 2: not necessarily shown on on other other platforms.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but conventional wisdom and I'm talking to the experts.

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Speaker 1: That's why. One of the truth is younger generation is

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Speaker 1: not participating on X. Is that just untrue?

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Speaker 2: No, that's untrue. A lot gen Z is participating on

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Speaker 2: X because the memes are just really.

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Speaker 3: They're they're they're participating, but they're not spending time on it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're not spending So they're reading headlines on X or

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Speaker 3: they're creating headlines which then they can use on other platforms.

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Speaker 3: So all the all the platforms where there's video is

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Speaker 3: pushed insanely like Instagram and uh YouTube and TikTok, that's

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Speaker 3: where the young generation is spending their most time.

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Speaker 2: That's where they're spending the most time. That's huttering.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, But the headlines are created at X.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, just to be clear, that's where you're harvesting things

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Speaker 1: as opposed to starting things.

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Speaker 2: You're no, you're discovering things on the video platforms, because

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Speaker 2: the video platforms have the most discovery reach. Right now, okay,

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Speaker 2: all platforms, including X, they're all adopting video more and

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Speaker 2: more because watch time is king, so not views anymore.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people, you know, probably five years ago,

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Speaker 2: views mattered a lot, Subscribers mattered a lot. Followers and

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Speaker 2: subscribers and views don't matter as much today Today. What

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Speaker 2: matters is the watch time, how much you can actually

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Speaker 2: have someone watch a video and spend time on your platform.

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Speaker 2: That's what matters the most. The platforms don't necessarily care

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Speaker 2: about people's feelings or the way that the algorithm is

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Speaker 2: working that. They just want to optimize their platform. They

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Speaker 2: want to optimize the algorithm and show you content that's

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Speaker 2: going to keep you there as long as well.

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Speaker 3: And X's video has not gotten to that level where

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Speaker 3: people are sitting there and consuming video on next they

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Speaker 3: are consuming though though the means the title of the.

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Speaker 2: Titles, the memes, the articles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you know, that's a word we've heard for

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Speaker 1: over a decade. Not everyone is sophisticated. They might ask,

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Speaker 1: what is a meme? Can you tell us.

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: I mean, well, you know, let's say the need let's

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Speaker 2: say the meme has blood, has nudity, has something that

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Speaker 2: is against the guidelines. On the traditional platforms, you're going

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Speaker 2: to find the worst memes in the in the planet

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Speaker 2: hilariously on X, you know, so, that's where you're going

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Speaker 2: to find that. And also gen Z loves the edginess

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Speaker 2: about it. You know, they love how edgy it is,

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Speaker 2: how they can share something with no repercussions. If you

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Speaker 2: say a curse word or two on the other platforms,

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Speaker 2: you are going to get dinged and censored. And so

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Speaker 2: I think that's what gen Z loves about X. But

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Speaker 2: it's not for everybody. It's it's so weird. I feel

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Speaker 2: like millennials feel like it's not for them. But gen

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Speaker 2: Z and late millennials, especially political millennials, are on X,

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Speaker 2: you know so.

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Speaker 3: And then a meme is just the inside jokes that

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Speaker 3: you have with your friends, but made into a public

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Speaker 3: that other people can consume and understand.

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Speaker 2: Another way that I like to explain memes is that

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Speaker 2: they're hieroglyphs. If you think about the Egyptians, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: you go to Egypt and there's a bunch of hieroglyphs

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Speaker 2: on the wall, their images, but each image represents like

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Speaker 2: a huge story, and that's what a meme is. It's

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Speaker 2: basically an image that you can attach to a headline

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Speaker 2: and it's an inside joke, whether it's from a movie,

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Speaker 2: whether it's from something that you and your friends were discussing,

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Speaker 2: or something with pop culture. And that's the thing about

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Speaker 2: gen Z is that they're not afraid to say what's

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Speaker 2: on their mind. And then, obviously, as we all know,

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Speaker 2: especially if you're in the in the entertainment world, if

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Speaker 2: if you say something that's on your mind, there's probably

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Speaker 2: a million people thinking it too. So I think that

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Speaker 2: that's what attracts, you know, the meme world, the and

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Speaker 2: the fried memes to gen Z.

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Speaker 1: Okay, to what degree is Facebook important or is that

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Speaker 1: just boomers and gen xers.

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Speaker 2: It's boomers in the United States, but Facebook is really

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Speaker 2: important in Mexico and Europe and in other Third world

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Speaker 2: countries because Facebook is beta for what China is currently

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Speaker 2: now with we Chat, and so Facebook is incorporated more

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Speaker 2: into a lot of different apps and utilities and games

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Speaker 2: and video games that people use. Facebook groups are also

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Speaker 2: very very popular in Mexico and in Latin America. They're

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Speaker 2: used almost to the popularity of Reddit threads here in

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Speaker 2: the United States.

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Speaker 1: And Reddit is a cornucopy of information. Does that figure

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Speaker 1: in your world?

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Speaker 3: It is Reddit. Reddit is basically Twitter on steroids steroids.

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Speaker 3: If it works on Reddit, then it will take the

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Speaker 3: world by store. Those people spend a lot of time

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Speaker 3: on the Internet, and it's a lot of people that

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Speaker 3: have a lot of pool on the Internet. So they

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Speaker 3: start the joke or the meme on Reddit and then

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Speaker 3: they use every other platform to spread it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about Facebook being like we Chat. We

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Speaker 1: Chat is a super platform with payment and everything. This

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Speaker 1: is what Musk's vision was with PayPal, and they squeezed

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Speaker 1: them out and it is still his vision at X.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Facebook has a chance to be that

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Speaker 1: super app?

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Speaker 2: I think that Facebook is already ten years ahead of that,

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Speaker 2: more than X. But I don't think that. I don't

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Speaker 2: doubt that Elon can do it as well. Facebook is

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Speaker 2: already fifty percent there. I mean Facebook has your age,

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Speaker 2: it could store your payment settings. If you've seen the

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Speaker 2: shop function on Instagram, Instagram is meta and if you've

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Speaker 2: bought anything through the Instagram function, you've already made a transaction.

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Speaker 2: If you've submitted your information to get a bonus when

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Speaker 2: the reels came out. You're already in there right now.

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Speaker 2: We may not be using Facebook, like I said, like

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Speaker 2: other countries, but there are apps that are enabled through Facebook.

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Speaker 2: There are groups that are enabled through Facebook, Facebook, Marketplace,

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Speaker 2: these things that are connecting us. If you think about

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Speaker 2: a group, a Facebook group that connects you, if you

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Speaker 2: think about Marketplace to compete with Craigslist, they're already fifty

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Speaker 2: percent there. They just need. What they don't have right

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Speaker 2: now is they don't have the hardware.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's what I was going to think exactly, Like

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Speaker 3: they've tried. They just can't get the hardware exactly, and

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Speaker 3: I don't think they will. It doesn't seem.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's snap our fingers and they get the hardware, right,

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Speaker 1: what would the hardware be? What would that look like?

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Speaker 2: It's an AR it's a it's an AR tool. This yeah,

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Speaker 2: it should have been the phone. I think it's too

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Speaker 2: late for the phone. I think it's too late for

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Speaker 2: the phone for everybody. But the if it gets integrated,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be an AR tool, correct, and so

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Speaker 2: that well it's yes, so like right now, the cost

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Speaker 2: for you know, the hardware, if you want to dabble

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Speaker 2: into the metaverse or into ar The hardware cost for

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Speaker 2: you to even experiment is going to run you anywhere

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Speaker 2: from you know, five hundred to maybe fourteen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about a headset here.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and so in a world where you get the

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Speaker 2: headset for fifty dollars, well, you're gonna get that headset

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Speaker 2: for fifty dollars because it's going to come integrated with

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Speaker 2: a bunch of tools that you are going to be

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Speaker 2: using for your everyday life. And so that's the way

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Speaker 2: that they get the hardware to be adopted by, you know,

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Speaker 2: essentially the masses.

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Speaker 1: Okay, will we eventually get there or is it going

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Speaker 1: to stall out?

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Speaker 2: That? That's something that we ask ourselves every day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the that's the tough that's the tough question.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we had a chance to get there quicker

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Speaker 3: with COVID, just because people were inside they had nothing

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Speaker 3: to do, and then the moment the world opened up,

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Speaker 3: it almost people just threw away a lot of those habits, right.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't think we're going to get there.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we're getting there my lifetime.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, just to be clear, when we had Pokey

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Speaker 1: Mond augmented reality, that was missed like the first video

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Speaker 1: game leading into something, or it was just an anomaly

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Speaker 1: and means nothing.

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Speaker 2: No, people are still obsessed with Pokemon Goo. My brother

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Speaker 2: in law plays plays that every single day. There will

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Speaker 2: be pockets, and there will be hobbyists and there will

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Speaker 2: be early adopters, the same way that for the last

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Speaker 2: five years people have been playing with VR headsets. But

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Speaker 2: I'm talking you know. When to answer the question, when

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Speaker 2: does Facebook actually turn into a competing we chat? I

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Speaker 2: think that Facebook is ten years ahead of X. However,

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Speaker 2: if X focuses on that, I don't doubt that they'll

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Speaker 2: figure out a way. However, I don't think that we

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Speaker 2: do that with phones. The only way to do that

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Speaker 2: is if you have a better product than the iPhone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just moving on through the platforms. Instagram. Instagram had

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Speaker 1: its moment for about ten years. It became the platform

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Speaker 1: of those who were image based. Then they said they

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Speaker 1: were going to go to video. They have reels. Reels

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Speaker 1: is a competing product with TikTok. How do you assess

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Speaker 1: what's going on at Instagram?

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Speaker 2: Love reels? Man?

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, the the what they did initially is

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Speaker 3: they put it on the main feed and people got

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Speaker 3: really upset. Now that they have an extra tab for it,

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Speaker 3: so you're specifically just looking at reels. It's it's performing

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Speaker 3: well for our creators and for their platforms. More and

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Speaker 3: more people are using reels and they already they already

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Speaker 3: got it right with with stories. When Stories came out,

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Speaker 3: people are like, I already have Snapchat, I don't need

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Speaker 3: I don't need Stories. And they took about a year

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Speaker 3: and a half and then no one's using Snapchat to

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Speaker 3: the to the level that they started using Instagram, I feel.

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Speaker 2: Like, until gen Z came around. But that's because so.

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Speaker 3: Like TikTok though, is filling the pressure. That's why they're

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Speaker 3: going very heavy on live video and they're trying to

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Speaker 3: take the market now. So and the numbers are swinging

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Speaker 3: it again towards Instagram.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, and again it goes back to the conversation

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Speaker 2: about utility. Different platforms have different utility. Snapchat is more

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Speaker 2: authentic because you can be more authentic because your older

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Speaker 2: sister and your dad is not on snareat and so

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Speaker 2: you know they're not gonna add you on Snapchat and

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Speaker 2: see you drinking at nineteen So you know, I feel

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Speaker 2: like with reels though, it goes back to the conversation

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Speaker 2: of watch time. If watch time is king now and

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Speaker 2: you realize that you can get someone to loop a

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Speaker 2: video for a minute, if you can get someone to

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Speaker 2: watch a twenty second video, you know, multiple times, then

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Speaker 2: you can get a minute out of them then rather

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Speaker 2: than seeing a square photo. And that's also why we

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Speaker 2: introduce carousels. So when you introduce carousels, there is more

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Speaker 2: of a chance for you to go next, spe swipe,

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Speaker 2: and it keeps the person engaged and creates more watch

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Speaker 2: time when you're watching photos.

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Speaker 1: Okay, YouTube is hyping their short form videos to compete

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Speaker 1: with TikTok in reels, how do you assess that?

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Speaker 2: To answer that question, we have to ask a question. So, Bob,

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Speaker 2: what's the biggest search engine?

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Speaker 1: It depends on your age. If you're an older person,

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Speaker 1: it's Google, If younger person is TikTok, might be Amazon.

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Speaker 2: Love it's what's the second biggest?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mentioned Google, Amazon, TikTok. Uh, you tell me.

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Speaker 2: The second is YouTube because it's integrated with Google. And

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Speaker 2: so even though TikTok has an interesting search function. It's

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Speaker 2: nowhere near the traffic of Google, and the second biggest

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Speaker 2: search engine is YouTube. So what does that mean for

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Speaker 2: us as people in entertainment, Whether you're pushing movies, whether

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Speaker 2: you're pushing artists or whatever it may be that you're

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Speaker 2: pushing good luck, you know, typing in you know, Bob

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Speaker 2: Interviews twenty five seven media on Facebook or on Instagram,

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Speaker 2: And unless we optimize the tiktoks in a way, then

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Speaker 2: they'll show up. But if you if you search that

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Speaker 2: on Google, you're gonna get the YouTube video first, because

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Speaker 2: YouTube still follows all the traditional SEO laws and it's

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Speaker 2: also the much the much better way to manage an

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Speaker 2: inventory right now. Now there are more capabilities on YouTube

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Speaker 2: to organize playlists, to organize the way that you can

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Speaker 2: have your audience consume the content, where on TikTok, not

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Speaker 2: even every creator is allowed to make playlists. Where on Instagram,

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Speaker 2: you know, not every creator even knows the difference between

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Speaker 2: you know, saving your lives for long form content or

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Speaker 2: using reels. They some of them don't even know that

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Speaker 2: you When you post a video on the feed, it

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Speaker 2: instantly turns it into a reel. So YouTube is the

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Speaker 2: best way to share long form content now shorts because

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Speaker 2: it comes with the searchability, because it comes with you know,

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Speaker 2: the integration with Google. It that's why it's been able

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Speaker 2: to explode in such in such a cool way. And

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Speaker 2: so if you notice your phone is optimized in a

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Speaker 2: vertical way, and so when you open the apps, they

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Speaker 2: are going to let you know what they're prioritizing. The

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Speaker 2: middle button on Instagram is reels. The middle button on

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Speaker 2: on your YouTube app right now is shorts because it's vertical.

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Speaker 2: So they are pushing this because seventy percent of the

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Speaker 2: consumption in the United States is mobile.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Okay, yeah, I was gonna say that YouTube is

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Speaker 3: getting shorts wrong because they're trying to fight two battles

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Speaker 3: at the same time. So they're fighting the livestream space.

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Speaker 3: YouTube live is becoming a very big thing. YouTube TV

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Speaker 3: is going against every cable company in the world right now.

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Speaker 3: And then on top of that you have the shorts.

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Speaker 3: Instagram introduced reels and just focused on reels to try

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Speaker 3: to attack TikTok and it's the same thing they did

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Speaker 3: with stories on Snapchat. YouTube is trying to fight three

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Speaker 3: battles at the same time. Yep, and they're just not

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Speaker 3: They're just not They're just not doing it right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think that shorts have the power of

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Speaker 2: TikTok yet however.

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Speaker 3: Because they're not improving the design correct.

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Speaker 2: But they are searchable, which is crazy because now TikTok

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Speaker 2: is learning how to be a searchable company, where YouTube has,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the years of experience and it's easier

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Speaker 2: to integrate. Like just the other day, I was we

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Speaker 2: did a campaign for one of our friends, Suweko. I

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Speaker 2: was able to find that right away. I looked it

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Speaker 2: up on YouTube and I found we found it because

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Speaker 2: I know when we did it, and it was a

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Speaker 2: really easy campaign to find. Where if I type in,

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Speaker 2: you know, Suako sound on TikTok, I'm gonna be sitting

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Speaker 2: through like hundreds, you know, like hundreds of thousands of sounds.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, it is what it is, uh, And I

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Speaker 2: agree with raf. They YouTube just has more opponents. YouTube.

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Speaker 2: YouTube's opponent is Twitch. Twitch is the most interactive live

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Speaker 2: streaming platform right now. It's not the best quote unquote,

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Speaker 2: but it's the most interactive. YouTube has far more video capabilities.

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Speaker 2: They just can't get the marketing right on how to

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Speaker 2: get more people to stream on YouTube, which which you know,

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Speaker 2: Raft is right about that they have the best technology

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Speaker 2: for vertical video. In my opinion, they just don't know

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Speaker 2: how to market it, to create, to create the users trash.

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Speaker 1: It's so bad.

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Speaker 3: How do you create? How does your platform a certain

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Speaker 3: color scheme and then you roll out of feature in

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Speaker 3: a different color scheme.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, see that hurts your eyes. See the raff is

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Speaker 2: really good at finding friction. No, I'm I'm sex, I'm

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Speaker 2: just sort of no like this. These are the types

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Speaker 2: of conversations. But when he finds friction, it's like, how

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Speaker 2: can we make this frictionless? So I agree with him.

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00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: The magic of TikTok is that your cousin can go

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Speaker 2: viral tomorrow. That's the magic. And so the platform is

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Speaker 2: designed for the consumer and is designed for the average

405
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Speaker 2: person to basically feel like they could do a trend

406
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Speaker 2: or create one and they can go viral tomorrow. You

407
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Speaker 2: try to upload a YouTube short on your own right now.

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Speaker 3: You actually need to go to YouTube. Need to go

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Speaker 3: to YouTube to learn how to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And so that's that's Raff is right. Raf

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Speaker 2: is right. So you know, a nerd like me. I mean,

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Speaker 2: like Bob before we started. I mean, look, look how

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Speaker 2: many things I set up. I set up a GoPro timer,

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Speaker 2: got a camera over there, got the camera floating, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm a nerd. This guy knows that YouTube is the

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Speaker 2: superior platform for technology. Raff is just like, who cares

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Speaker 2: if you know how to film all this? If you

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Speaker 2: can't even get the message across I get it.

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Speaker 1: Let's stop for a second. You said watch time is

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Speaker 1: the most important to the ultimate platform. It's important. Whereas

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Speaker 1: we've been told how many views, how many subscribers? Are

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Speaker 1: you talking that watch time is the best in terms

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Speaker 1: of compensation? Why is watch time king?

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Speaker 2: Watch time is king to the platforms I'll talk about too, right,

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Speaker 2: So from the producer of the content to the platform.

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Speaker 2: It's king to the platforms because you can't fake watch

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Speaker 2: time as good as you could fake views. I mean,

428
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Speaker 2: you know, even ten years ago, people were talking about

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Speaker 2: like those like playlist farms and stuff like that. So

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Speaker 2: you can buy a view, you can buy a click

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Speaker 2: that's been around for a long time, but actually have

432
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 2: a human being interact with their device while they're paying

433
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: attention to your content is something you can't fake. And

434
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 2: the tools and the tracking tools are getting better and better.

435
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: So you know, these tracking tools are tracking when you know,

436
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: people hire like a big render farm, like those render

437
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: firms that Hollywood used to use to render graphic design.

438
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: Those render farms are being used now to fake watch time.

439
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: But these platforms are getting really good at identifying when

440
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: this is a fake interaction because there are natural retention rates.

441
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 2: And if you listen to some of the biggest creators,

442
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 2: you know, they always talk about their retention. They talk

443
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: about three things. They talk about their thumbnail, which is basically,

444
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: you know, the first message you sent to the world

445
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: when they are encountered with your mass awareness, which is

446
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: the platform putting you in front of their face. They

447
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: talk about their hook, which is what drives you into

448
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 2: the video, And they talk about their retention. Those are

449
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: the three biggest priorities right now for the platform.

450
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: Wait, wait just one second, Yes, are we talking about

451
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: retention of one video or retention con assuming multiple videos.

452
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: Well, it's both, but it starts with one. You know.

453
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: If so, if you a healthy playlist, this this statistic.

454
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: You know, it's been a while since I've been at

455
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: full screen, but this statistic maybe a little outdated, but

456
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: a healthy playlist is if you get like one point

457
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: eight one point eight videos watched, so that means that

458
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: they they saw your video, they watched one more video,

459
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: and then they watch, you know, point eight of another.

460
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: So who knows what it is now. Maybe it's bigger

461
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: because you know, mobile and everything's a little bit more attractive.

462
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 2: Maybe it's two now, I don't know, but that the

463
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: point is that it starts with one. You want to

464
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: make sure that your content gets that retention so that

465
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: you can hope to you know, to live another day.

466
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's the answer for the platforms. The reason

467
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: it's king it's because it's the thing that can't be faked,

468
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: and it won't be It won't be faked for a

469
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: long time. And another another reason is because you, as

470
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 2: the producer of the content, you want one hundred fans

471
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 2: that have seen the thing in completion rather than you know,

472
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 2: ten thousand fans that have just maybe heard your name

473
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: or saw you in a meme or you know, saw

474
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: your thumbnail.

475
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: Okay, the elephant in the room advertising dollars where the

476
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: consumer is spending the most time on yep. So if

477
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: I'm watching a show for twenty minutes and I'm watching

478
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: another show for ten minutes. As an advertiser, I want

479
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 3: to go to the one that they're consuming more slower.

480
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: Are you saying the viewer is more valuable or because

481
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 1: they're watching so much video they're seeing more ads.

482
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 3: The viewers more valuable because you can get your message across.

483
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 3: You're a more valuable asset than someone that's making ten

484
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: second videos. Because if someone's spending an hour listening to

485
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: this podcast, you have the more hooked.

486
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: Okay, let's pull the lens way back. In the pre

487
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: Internet era, people got their information from traditional newspapers and television,

488
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: magazines and books, but there was a hierarchy. Then let's

489
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: just say there are many places to get your information today.

490
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: So if we are talking about the younger demo, let's

491
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: just call it under twenty. I don't know where you

492
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: want to break it. Under twenty one, under eighteen, even

493
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: under eight fifteen? Can you reach them with any of

494
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: the traditional tools. The newspapers mean anything, does television mean anything?

495
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: Or really, is this the only way to reach the audience.

496
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: I'm gonna think on that, man, I got it, go

497
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: for it.

498
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: We use traditional media to validate where you've already put

499
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: on social media. So we run a company. Right, the

500
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 3: Wired article came out, we could do a million views

501
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: on digital, but everyone that was under fifteen s physical

502
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 3: magazine and they matched the views that we do on

503
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: digital to that magazine has said, these guys are legit.

504
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but you guys are out of the demo. Yeah, okay.

505
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: So the La Times, which a rockstar referred to me

506
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: as a pamphlet today, has very little information and seeming

507
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: I get it, but seemingly almost nobody I know still

508
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: gets it.

509
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

510
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: So I see these articles and you might feel good

511
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: at home. Okay, But if you're under twenty and there's

512
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: an article on you, other than trying to reach a

513
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: different audience, the older demo might give you a movie deal. Whatever,

514
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: does it help your audience at all?

515
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? Let's let me answer the question. And I didn't

516
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 2: want to recycle an answer, but since it wasn't published

517
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 2: in the Washington Post, I'll say it here. What I

518
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: told them when they asked about traditional media is I

519
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: said that traditional media has a very good opportunity at

520
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: just completely owning live And I'll give you an example.

521
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: I mean, look at me. I don't play sports. Right.

522
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: I don't know about sports, but I don't know anything

523
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: about football, but this dude loves football, right, so the

524
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: the primetime coach guy, right, Like, I just got hooked

525
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: on his YouTube videos and uh what do yeah? And

526
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 2: what he was doing with with Colorado and I was like,

527
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: this is this is brilliant, Like why don't why don't

528
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 2: all the teams do? And I got hooked on on

529
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 2: the energy and you know, in order for me to

530
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: actually watch the game, it had to be TV. And

531
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: so the production, you know, the machine has the opportunity

532
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: to make the best live content ever. So when you

533
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: have kids that are you know, live streaming I r

534
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: L on Kick, they're live streaming I r L on

535
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: on Twitch with I r L is in real life.

536
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: So what this is a this is a content category

537
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: that's actually the biggest content category on Twitch right now

538
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: and on competitor of Twitch, which is Kick, where people

539
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: are setting up go pros or dslr's actual cameras with

540
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: a backpack and they're using converters to be able to

541
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: live stream a very high, high production quality compared to

542
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: what we're used to live streaming. When you know your

543
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: grandma or your live streams horizontally on Facebook Live and

544
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: so yeah, this is this is like good stuff. However,

545
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: what's stopping a network from getting Gordon Ramsey Live to

546
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: you know, go into a restaurant and Save the Day live. Well,

547
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: they're just not doing it. But they have a really

548
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: good opportunity to do that right now, other than just

549
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: the traditional award shows and sports. I think that, you know,

550
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: if you have a production experience, if you treat production

551
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: value with you know, with that level of caliber and respect,

552
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: I think that there's a really big opportunity for you

553
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: to do that. So I think that, you know, it's

554
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: not necessarily gone. What I told the Washington Post is

555
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: that you know, it's it's about learning a trade, you know. Uh,

556
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: social media, if you if you want to do it, well,

557
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to learn a little bit of you know, filmmaking.

558
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to learn a little bit of cinematography.

559
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: If you want to take it to the next level.

560
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: You want to you know, you want to make content,

561
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: you have to learn sound. You have to learn all

562
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: of these tools and disciplines from production. And you know,

563
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: social media's been around for ten days at ten ten years,

564
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: you know, so now you're encountering the fifteen, seventeen, eighteen

565
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: year old that their dream was to go to USC

566
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: and not not anymore. Their dream is like yo, like

567
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: I can do this at nineteen, and I can shoot

568
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: an ad from my living room, and they're adopting these

569
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: disciplines and that's going to wash all the millennials that

570
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: just got good at posing and good lighting, because these

571
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: nineteen year olds that are coming already equip cinematographers that

572
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: have done campaigns for brands because brands are paying them

573
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: close to nothing because they have a million of followers

574
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: on TikTok and they don't know what to charge. These

575
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: kids are coming out, they gate with commercials, they've done,

576
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: they've done for ads, they've done music videos, they've they've

577
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: gone viral themselves. So you know, I think it could

578
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: be done.

579
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: And that's why TikTok was able to take off right

580
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: away because you didn't need experience. But now all there,

581
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: the real create are coming in and it's turning like

582
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: every other platform where you need to be able to storyteller,

583
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: you need to be able to have production value to

584
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: even compete.

585
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk entertainment outlets let's talk specifically the

586
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: music business. Music business was controlled by distribution. It's hard

587
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: to get your record in the store. And even if

588
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: you got in the record store, unless you had a

589
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: continuing line of product, you couldn't get paid. Then there

590
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: was terrestrial radio. Needless to say, there are many outlets today.

591
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: If you are let's just talk one of the three

592
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: major labels in their subsidiaries. This is a two sided question.

593
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: Can they make it without social media? And b if

594
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: they want to use social media, how might they employ it?

595
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: Oh raft takes a stand ins set of the guillotine.

596
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: Okay, So it all depends on the genre. So yeah,

597
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 3: look at a country right now. Country music is having

598
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: an enormous rise. That doesn't happen without without TikTok and

599
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: social media being involved. But all the artists that are

600
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: doing well right now, they also have a huge touring history.

601
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: There's only one breakthrough country artist this year, which is

602
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: Zach Bryan. He told his story on social media, got

603
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: a couple million views right away.

604
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: He hit the road.

605
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: So country, you still need to hit the road. You

606
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: still need to touch the fan base and then from

607
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: there use that piece of content on social media. Now,

608
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 3: if we're talking about hip hop or pop music. All

609
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: you need is that iPhone, make that song, put it

610
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: out there, and they'll they'll find you, especially if you

611
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: know exactly the fan base that you're going after, because

612
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 3: you can find the type bet that you want to

613
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 3: get on, you can find the type vocal that you

614
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: want to sound on, and you go from an artist

615
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: that's at zero to seven right away and you have

616
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 3: a product worth selling. As far as the big major

617
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: labels and the Citi aaries, what's happening there is they're

618
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: using it as a way to sign artists, but they're

619
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: not going back to the platform and educating them on

620
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: who the artist is. They're just like, we just signed

621
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: this really cool record and we're just gonna throw money

622
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: at it. But they're not going back and saying, well,

623
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 3: this cool record was made by this and this and

624
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 3: this type of artist. They're not going back and educating

625
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: the artists because there's so much supply and there's so

626
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: much product out there that they can make money from

627
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: that they don't need to go and tell the artist's

628
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: story like they used to have.

629
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's focus on hip hop that you just mentioned.

630
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: You say you can look at what's happening and recreate it.

631
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: We live in a world it used to be prior

632
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: to fifteen years ago or so if you did something great,

633
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: it would surface. Not today. I can point to things

634
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: that are phenomenal in everything, whether it be streaming, television, music, whatever.

635
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: There's just so much product. Are you saying? With hip hop,

636
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: there's a way to analyze social media such that you

637
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: know you will get attention.

638
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: Same thing with the same thing with the sound and

639
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: hip hop as well, because in hip hop there's they're

640
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: typebat producers, so they can create exactly the sound of

641
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: another popular artist, and then they can create the exact

642
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: vocal chain in your house. So you can go from

643
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: I've never made a song to I just sound like

644
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 3: my favorite artist. And the consumer on the other side,

645
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: they're like, if I listen to I don't know a

646
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 3: little TJ, I'm also gonna like this artist as well

647
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: because they sound alike.

648
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: Well, let me let me ok, I get all that

649
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: you have the successful artists. I'm at home, I've replicated

650
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: and I've made something reasonable.

651
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: How do people find me easy? You just the exact

652
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: artists that you're replicating. You hit up their fan pages

653
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 3: and let's.

654
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: Be a little bit slower. Okay, you are the new artists.

655
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: How do you hit up their fan base?

656
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 3: You open up Instagram, say hey, I also sound like

657
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: the artists that you're a fan of, as you have

658
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: three thousand followers, here's my snippet of this song. Are

659
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: you open to posting it on your story? That story

660
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: gets two hundred, two hundred new listeners, right, so that

661
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 3: story post is going to give that new artist from

662
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: zero to two hundred new listeners. Now that algorithm is

663
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: created that shows Spotify and other platforms that this artist

664
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: sounds exactly like this big artist, so you should recommend

665
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: them more.

666
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit slower. I'm doing everything you can.

667
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: I see the followers of the big artists. I reach out.

668
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: How many do I have to reach out? How many

669
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: are gonna play with me? And what do you have

670
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: to do to incentivize them to play?

671
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 3: Well, you're not reaching out there to the artist directly,

672
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: I understand the fans. Yeah, you're reaching out to the

673
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 3: fan page. And honestly, it's very easy because they're used

674
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 3: to always engaging. Because a person that's running a fan

675
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 3: page online is also probably online twenty four to seven

676
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: so they're going to see it. It's all about I

677
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: can start this project with you today, Bob. We can

678
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: make your favorite artists happen today, and we could probably

679
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 3: have a million streams within a month.

680
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: Okay, just a little bit slower. I've created the snippet.

681
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: How many members of the fan base might I reach

682
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: out too?

683
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 3: I would reach out to fifty pages if those remember

684
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: the artist that you're replicating has to have enough of

685
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 3: a fan base to have a fan page too. That's

686
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 3: the elephant in the room. So it has to be

687
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: a big enough artist that has a bunch of fan pages.

688
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: I'll reach out to fifty. I would tell let's say

689
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: twenty of them reply back. Pay twenty bucks per story post.

690
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 3: Then I'm getting my first ten thousand listeners. Then the

691
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 3: algorithm will just serve me too.

692
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: Okay, but ultimately, you were compensating these people.

693
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: If you want to get a quicker, if you want

694
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 3: to get a quicker.

695
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 2: But we've also been in a position where we had

696
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: no money to pay anybody, and it's just a matter

697
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: of See, that's the thing that see. I think the

698
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: reason why Bob keeps zooming out is because we have

699
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: to go deeper. And deeper into the core. Check this out.

700
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: Raf said something very important, which is, you know sometimes

701
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: people sign a song, but they're not signing the artists, right, Okay,

702
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: so let's start there. When you have the money for it.

703
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: We might not even use the money. This is just

704
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: an opportunity for you to take your artist to the

705
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 2: gym and say, hey, Miho, you got to reach out

706
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: to three hundred people. You have to do it from

707
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: your page because and you have to do it with

708
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: your voice notes because I'm not you. Do you want

709
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: it more or do I want it more than you?

710
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: It's a very beautiful opportunity, and I think that every

711
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: if this is what you do, if you help artists,

712
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: if you help creators, it's very important for you to

713
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 2: be able to find these assignments that also get results.

714
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: So these get results. But okay, now the other zoom

715
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: out question from Bob Okay, I've done that. No one's

716
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,959
Speaker 2: posted it. Cool. Now you go back to the gym

717
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: and you work on your product, the problem that we've

718
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: had for the last you know, thirty years or whatever. Like, yes,

719
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: you might have a good song, you might be in

720
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 2: a good algorithm, and honestly, like labels aren't signing bad things,

721
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: and they're also not putting out bad things, like this

722
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,439
Speaker 2: is good stuff, it's just that it's not good enough.

723
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: And so okay, let's say that your product or your

724
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: song is not good enough, then what do you have?

725
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: Are you very attractive? Okay, you're not attractive. You're like me,

726
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: all right. So that means that you have to build

727
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: a community and interest around what you want to do.

728
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: And so that's why when you zoom out in, zoom outain,

729
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: zoom out, it starts at the core. Man. It's like, look, dude,

730
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 2: do you do you want to be a musician because

731
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: you want to hop into a scene and have a

732
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: blast and have an amazing youth and maybe put that

733
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 2: money in real estate? Cool? Do you want to start

734
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: a community? And do you want to start a movement?

735
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: Because you're passionate about this genre. You're passionate about this

736
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 2: Da da da da da. We've seen it and you live.

737
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: You live during the time that I wish I was alive.

738
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: I wish I was alive when a dude came up

739
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: to me in an alley and was like, yo, you

740
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: look like you would like to get punched in the

741
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: middle of the night listening to Metallica. Who's Metallica? You

742
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: don't know? Here's this cassette. Come back tomorrow and I'll

743
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: show you where the show's at. I wish I was

744
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: alive at that time.

745
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 3: And in twenty twenty, we did that with an artist

746
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: and we did like we did it in a hip

747
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 3: hop yep. So we you talk about in real life

748
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: and real yeah, yeah we So basically what he's saying.

749
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: I had the artist message three hundred creators yep, and

750
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 3: I was like, the artist that you're mimicking also is

751
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: followed by these specific creators. These creators all play this

752
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 3: specific video game, which is for Day. So I had

753
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 3: him message every single creator. We had about a twenty

754
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: percent response, right. We flip that to about eighty million

755
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: streams within a year. The artist was at zero.

756
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: Okay, we signed to learn clear why does this work

757
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: in pop and hip hop and not other genres?

758
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 2: It works in every genre and not in country because

759
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: in country music they did they were slower to get

760
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 2: on social media.

761
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of when.

762
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, bingo, yeah, okay, this.

763
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Is all general. You guys represent talent. How many people

764
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: do you represent today? Eight that's not very many. Okay,

765
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: of your overall time, how much is focused on those

766
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: eight as opposed to whatever.

767
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: That's a tough question. It's it's pretty tough to scale.

768
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 2: But we divide and conquer. So we're three founders and

769
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: then we have eight managers. Well, we have twenty seven

770
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: people in staff first of all, so this is impossible

771
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: to do without a fucking big ass team.

772
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody's on a weekly salary. What do you mean

773
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: as opposed to you work and I pay it two

774
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: hundred dollars when I see the work?

775
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: Oh r no, no, we well, we have vendors for

776
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 2: different things.

777
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: All twenty seven know that they're going to get paid

778
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: every week.

779
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, yeah yeah no, but yeah, we

780
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: have vendors for different things like marketing that will will

781
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 2: hire some of whatever. But no, like we have twenty

782
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: seven employees, not all of them are managers, some of

783
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: them are coordinators, some of them are just specifically social

784
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: media people. You know, my brother he's nineteen, runs the

785
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: editing team. Like you know, we also stratboot and we're

786
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: also immigrants, so we know, you know, we make sure

787
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: the family works. But no, how we scale it is

788
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: pretty tough, but we divide it in three.

789
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, different question. You have these

790
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: eight artists, he.

791
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: Said, fifty eighty eight. That's why I don't know.

792
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: That's why I got confused. Fifty eight. Let me let

793
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: me go to the other half of the question. Anyway,

794
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: at twenty five seven media, is all your work and

795
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: income based on those fifty eight or is there another

796
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: business of consulting and doing what it is?

797
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 3: So we we've done marketing for every major label in

798
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: the book for the last three years.

799
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: And are you still doing that?

800
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 3: No, because we still do it for like very few

801
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 3: friends here and there, but we like to do it

802
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: in the house because you know, you own the asset,

803
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: like you own the music that you're putting on with

804
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: the artists, so that there's a higher return there than

805
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 3: getting someone else's record to move on the chart.

806
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So, for whatever reason, you don't want me to

807
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: be your fifty ninth artist. Is there somebody like you?

808
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 1: Guys who I could say, well, I didn't use twenty

809
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: five seven, I use three six media. Are there other

810
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: people out there of your caliber?

811
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? I would it would be ignorant to say they're not.

812
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 3: And there's also and you know where they are.

813
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: They're a group of friends on a discord that don't

814
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 2: even know that they're twenty five to seven yet.

815
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, like before we got in the space, we well,

816
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: I was a song promoter from labels years ago. So

817
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: what I would do is I would get specific records

818
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 3: moving in specific territories on Spotify. I didn't know that

819
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 3: was an actual talent like they. I just thought I

820
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: was just a kid making Spotify playlist, driving traffic. And

821
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 3: then you see the song number one of the Philippines

822
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: and you're a part of it, and you're like, well,

823
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 3: I got paid like five hundred bucks for this. So

824
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: then as I got older, I was like, oh, this

825
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: is where the ball is moving towards digital. And then

826
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: I became empowered. And then when Covid hit, it made

827
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: us even more empowered because all that all those ad

828
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 3: dollars that they were going to put everywhere else, They're like,

829
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: we have to give it to these young guys. And

830
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 3: there's a kid right now that's learning a platform that

831
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: we're ignoring in this conversation that's gonna crush us in

832
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 3: three to four years.

833
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a side note, but now since we've

834
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: had social media influencers in excess of a decade, you

835
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: have incredible burnout because on one hand, you have to

836
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: post every day another land that becomes very tedious no

837
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: matter how much money you're making. Has this been your experience.

838
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: We deal with burnout in different ways. I think that

839
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: actually all three of us have different ways of dealing

840
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: with it all. At Raf kind of talk about the

841
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: way he deals with burnout when it comes to creators.

842
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: But when they if they come to me, it's because

843
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: they've already tried, you know, all the conventional things that

844
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: I've already put out there on the TikTok that they

845
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: can watch, right, they've already tried all the all the tutorials.

846
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: But if they come to one of us and they're

847
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: honest about it, first you have to make sure that

848
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: they're honest about it. And it doesn't mean that they're

849
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 2: lying to you. It's just so that you can identify, like, hey,

850
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: is this truly, you know, burnout or is it that

851
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: it's just the wrong song and you just don't like

852
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: the song, you know? And I think that by the

853
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: time that they come to us, what I like to

854
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: do is I like to take them through, you know,

855
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 2: the steps of breaking it down honestly, Like, look, dude,

856
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: sometimes you just have to tell them like, hey man,

857
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: maybe you're just not passionate about, you know, the the

858
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: lyrics that you're saying. Maybe you don't believe them, maybe

859
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: you outgru them. You know. Sometimes people, I mean, people

860
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: have been with us for four years now. There are

861
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: worlds where we signed someone at you know, nineteen, and

862
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: now they're in their twenties and they're a different person.

863
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: Maybe their fan base wants them to be that and

864
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: they're not. And so, you know, burnout can increase and

865
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: the candle burns from multiple ends when there are these

866
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: things other than just doing your job. One of the

867
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: things that I notice is that when the artists or

868
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: the content creator is actually passionate about their work and

869
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: they're passionate about what they're putting out, it's a I

870
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: don't want to say that it doesn't happen, but burnout

871
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: is rare.

872
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: It really well, you know, we go back to one

873
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: of the original influencers, Jenna Marbles. She gave up people

874
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 1: who feel that there's so much pressure to post every

875
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: day sure that they they just you know, spiral out.

876
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 3: Well, here's here's a couple of things. So to avoid burnout,

877
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 3: you need a team that's always pushing your content without

878
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 3: you click and upload. So we have one of our artists,

879
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: he walks around, he goes shop, he would that would

880
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: be a normal day that he would do. Doesn't have

881
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 3: to interact with the camera at all. We shoot that

882
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 3: and then that's what we post. He doesn't have to

883
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 3: do anything different. He ate a burrito when I was

884
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 3: with him, I took a video of that. Two million

885
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: of you. He doesn't have to open up his TikTok account.

886
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: That's him right. There's other artists that need to create

887
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 3: content for their music or whatever they're making. That has

888
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 3: to be more personable. And then the elephant in the room,

889
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 3: what's your why? If you came to me three years

890
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 3: ago and your why was to be a superstar, and

891
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: their superstar level expectations, you have to do things that

892
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 3: you don't want to do. But if your goal was

893
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 3: to make become a self sufficient business or you know,

894
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: be a six figure, seven figure business, and we hit that,

895
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 3: go to Japan, shout out to ninety three. If she took.

896
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: Okay okay, you said to become a superstar, you have

897
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: to do things you don't want to do. Give me

898
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: two examples of things I might have to do to

899
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: become a superstar that I don't want to do.

900
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 3: Okay, so right now, the live feature is massive. A

901
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 3: person with a huge platform that wants to keep their

902
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 3: fans engaged needs to go on live at least once

903
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 3: a month for an hour and talk to fans, almost

904
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 3: like you're doing a meet and greet. A lot of

905
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 3: artists have social anxiety. A lot of artists don't want

906
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 3: to be on live. They want to have more of

907
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 3: their videos, you know, edit it a certain way. But

908
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: a superstar needs to have a meet and greet on

909
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 3: digital with the artist sadly nowadays at least once a month.

910
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: Okay, pull back for a second. What do I need

911
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: for you to sign me? You got fifty eight people

912
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: you're working with. You're always calming for new talent. What

913
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: are you looking for?

914
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: Depending on who you ask?

915
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 2: Depending on who you ask? Like he's all about music. Yeah,

916
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: I'll finish. I'll finish the concept. And I'll even touch

917
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: on Jenna Marbles because that's close to home, because I

918
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: love her. So the reason she stopped is because she

919
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: loved comedy. That's what she loved. And in the world

920
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 2: and the climate that we're in, you know, being you know,

921
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: a white woman making jokes, it's something that you know,

922
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: there are jokes that she regretted. But then she just

923
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: had so much anxiety with the platform as big as

924
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: she had and with making a mistake that it crumbled her.

925
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: And so again that's when we go into are you

926
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 2: actually burning the candle from the other end us as

927
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: the team, I make sure that the flame is burning

928
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: in a controllable way, but if it's melting on different sides,

929
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: then we have to be honest about it. Hey, dude, like,

930
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 2: maybe these lyrics are not it for you anymore. You

931
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: can't you can't rap about suicide anymore. Maybe you can't

932
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: do that, and maybe that's what's stopping you from from

933
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: from going deeper and being honest about you know, why

934
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: it is that you procrastinate, why it is that you

935
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: push it, why it is that you're not executing. And

936
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: that's when the candle burns on both ends of the sticks.

937
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: And that's why people like Genna Marbles have that big

938
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: of a platform also big expectations from their fans to

939
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: be funny. Now, the climate is very anti funny, you know,

940
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

941
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: So let's slow down there. Yeah, tell me more about

942
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: the climate being the anti funny.

943
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: Well, that's funny, but see that's funny. But with her

944
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: there are jokes that didn't age well, plain and simple.

945
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: I know that, but I'm trying to say. I'm sitting

946
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: at home, I want to make it. Are you telling

947
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: me that you know? Today generally speaking, we're not looking

948
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: for funny. We're looking for something else.

949
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 2: Man, It's just that funny is it's just a dangerous

950
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: territory man whatever, especially for gen zers, Like there's gen

951
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: zers that I'm telling you do not care, like these

952
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: kids are scary, like some of the things that they

953
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 2: share on social.

954
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's what he's The anti funny thing

955
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 3: is if a comedian set a joke or an individual

956
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 3: set of joke, we would allow that. Right nowadays, you

957
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 3: can't come in and thinking you're Seine Seinfeld earned the

958
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 3: right to say that joke, and with social media they

959
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 3: will make sure to let you know right away or

960
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 3: whoever your boss is that hey, so and so is

961
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: a teacher at this school. But it is also trying

962
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 3: to make this type of content online. There was a

963
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: teacher recently.

964
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, it's not that the audience

965
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: doesn't want funny, it's just if you specialize in funny,

966
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: it's a dangerous territory.

967
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 2: It's a dangerous territory because you're going to be criticized

968
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: in the same way that if you think that you're

969
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,919
Speaker 2: a good battle rapper and you start making rap music

970
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: instead of mumbo hip hop, you're gonna get cooked by

971
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: the people that know how to rap.

972
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, let's just say you got fifty eight clients,

973
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: what genres? What are those fifty How many are in music?

974
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: How many are only fans? What are the fifty eight?

975
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 2: Oh man, you're gonna have to help me with that. Well,

976
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: how many music people do with?

977
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it gets complicated. So it's fifty eight exclusive,

978
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty non exclusive that we work on

979
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: social media with. So you're overall three hundred. Music is

980
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 3: about twenty four and then the rest would be a

981
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 3: hybrid between YouTube and.

982
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: Only fans, between what and only fans, you.

983
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 3: Tube creators and only fans. But it's kind of everybody

984
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: has kind of similar goals. Believe it or not. Everybody

985
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 3: has to create a community. So on music right now,

986
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 3: a big thing is a broadcast channel. So there's specific

987
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 3: members that join there and they can either subscribe or

988
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: join for free that a musician can just give them

989
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,919
Speaker 3: snippets or music that won't hit all platforms. And that's

990
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 3: exactly how it works for the YouTube creators and only

991
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 3: fans as well.

992
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: Okay, let's focus solely on only fans. Is it one

993
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: hundred percent pornography or is anybody making money without taking

994
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: their clothes?

995
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, we have a ton that are making money

996
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: with say about like forty percent of the roster doesn't

997
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 2: take their clothes off at all.

998
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: And what are they selling? Are they selling sex?

999
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 2: Some of them are, some of them are selling bikini photos,

1000
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: some of them are selling connection, connection, and also just

1001
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 2: live streaming like watching watching anime together, like it's all

1002
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:04,959
Speaker 2: kinds of Okay.

1003
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 1: Let me be very specific. How much are sexually oriented?

1004
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 1: That could be sex conversation, that could be bikini photos,

1005
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 1: that could be taking off all your clothes? Yea, what

1006
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: percentage of the people you represent are in that category

1007
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: as opposed to another category?

1008
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 2: There's different levels of boundaries, I'd say, But yeah, of

1009
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 2: course it's it's risque, but there there's an art to it,

1010
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: like there are people.

1011
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I just want to know, is

1012
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: anybody making good money not in that riskue territory?

1013
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

1014
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are they doing?

1015
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: Uh? They're the ones that are that are doing bikini

1016
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 2: pictures and watching anime with their fans.

1017
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, let's say I'm not wearing a bikini, I'm

1018
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: wearing a hoodie and ben sweatpants. Can I build a

1019
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: business watching anime with my fans?

1020
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can, and that's called being a live streamer

1021
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: on the just chat on Twitch is just not the

1022
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: right platform.

1023
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: Okay, but on only fans talk about only.

1024
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 3: That's that's the issue with that's the issue only like

1025
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 3: the way the way you only fans, there's going to

1026
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: be a sexual component somewhere.

1027
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. For for us at least, we're not in the

1028
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: business of, you know, going up to someone and telling

1029
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: them that they can make a million dollars by doing

1030
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: like a cooking show, which is what OnlyFans is trying

1031
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: to do. Right, But it's I know that it happens

1032
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: for them. I don't have the day.

1033
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand you answered my question. Yeah, Okay, let's

1034
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: assume I am making sexually oriented content and only fans.

1035
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: Is that the end? Or are there any opportunities that

1036
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: only fans might lead to?

1037
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? See, that's the cool thing about what we do

1038
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: is what what the only fans side of the business

1039
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 2: and digital One of the mottos is that you know,

1040
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 2: no digital girl is going to die doing OnlyFans. So

1041
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 2: the point really is to build a platform. That's the

1042
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 2: number one priority, and then to monetize on it. Once

1043
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 2: you have that money, what do you want to do

1044
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 2: with that money? Do you want to start a YouTube channel, streaming?

1045
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: Do you want to launch brand? Which we've done all

1046
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 2: those things.

1047
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 3: Look at Kim Kardashian, that should I just.

1048
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: From Oh, we all know Kim Kardashian and that was

1049
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: made on television primarily there was a sex tape before that,

1050
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: but then television. But let's not talk about Kim Dartian.

1051
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the people you represent, right.

1052
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 3: No, that's the modern day version of course, someone who

1053
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 3: is making content sexually oriented on only fans that you represent.

1054
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: How much is the biggest gross per year of someone

1055
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: who does that?

1056
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: I mean, don't want to out because everybody knows our

1057
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 2: top three. But it's it's pretty, it's worth their while.

1058
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: Is it seven figures?

1059
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1060
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah?

1061
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 3: Is it eight figures?

1062
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: It could be, It could be.

1063
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I have a deal. We're making money twenty

1064
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: five to seven. What is their cut?

1065
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 2: It depends on the creator. There are some people that

1066
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: are legacy that have been with us from the beginning.

1067
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 2: They're people that you know, just start. It depends if

1068
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 2: we launch the If we launch their career.

1069
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: Well give me the lowest to the highest.

1070
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: So in general, what we do when we launch someone's

1071
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: career is we do fifty fifty on the only fan

1072
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 2: side and it's a it's a three month test. And

1073
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 2: if they because this this is the thing man like,

1074
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 2: you don't want to uh commit to something that you're

1075
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: not one hundred million percent sure that you're going to

1076
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 2: be able to do. And part of what we do

1077
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: is we don't really this this sounds hilarious, it's kind

1078
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 2: of intuitive, but we don't make them do anything. We

1079
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: don't tell them what to do. What we do is

1080
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: we provide strategy, and we provide decks and presentations where

1081
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: they can choose and pick and choose whatever they're comfortable with.

1082
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: From proven trends that work, and then we also consult

1083
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: them on producing the right tiktoks, and we also produce

1084
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 2: the YouTube videos for them.

1085
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1086
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 3: Where the traffic source? Yeah? Where the traffic source or

1087
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 3: that platform.

1088
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say I'm in business with you. We have

1089
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: great success, but I think I can do it alone now,

1090
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: and I don't want to give up my fifty percent.

1091
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: Who owns the content?

1092
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 2: They do? The creator does. Uh, the creator has to

1093
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 2: own the content because they are the ones that are

1094
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 2: producing the content in California. That's just the law. And

1095
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 2: we also represent people all over the world. But we

1096
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 2: we go.

1097
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: Actually, I don't want to get into the legal elements

1098
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: actually being a lawyer, but you they own the content

1099
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: is good enough for me. Let's switch the gears to music.

1100
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, before we switch gears, I'll discuss like what leads

1101
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: to that. So the point of building a platform first

1102
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: beef before even getting an only fan, especially when we

1103
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: launch someone. If we launch someone, we do it three

1104
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 2: month tests. After that three month test, we give them

1105
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: the option to stay, and then we do a long

1106
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 2: term contract for less percentage. That percentage is determined based

1107
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,479
Speaker 2: on you know, the outcome of the business, but we don't.

1108
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: We don't stay fifty percent forever. At fifty percent is

1109
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: just the launch because in the launch phase we put

1110
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: in a ton of money for the traffic, We invest

1111
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 2: a lot in their in their in their content, We

1112
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: help them with everything. And so that's what the three

1113
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 2: the three month test this far. Now from there, it's

1114
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: really important to build a TikTok because actually the way

1115
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: that we build the community around digital is through music.

1116
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: So you know, when it comes to pushing sounds, you know,

1117
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: when we.

1118
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: Look at who waha a little bit slower, Huh did

1119
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: you switch gears? Or are you saying only fans is

1120
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: driven by TikTok?

1121
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: Uh? It is.

1122
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: And it's if I'm only fans and I'm taking my

1123
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: clothes off, I'm selling on I'm baking people to wear

1124
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: on TikTok. But there's a musical component.

1125
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 2: There's a musical component for being being a creator. When

1126
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 2: you're a creator and you want to monetize, whether it's

1127
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: YouTube or only fans or whatever, you need the most

1128
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: amount of awareness right now, it happens to be ig

1129
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: reels and TikTok. And so that's why for us, the

1130
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 2: priority you know, maybe maybe you you flunk on OnlyFans

1131
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 2: and this has happened. Maybe you flunk on OnlyFans and

1132
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 2: you or you find out that it's not for you.

1133
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, you have a conversation with uh, you know,

1134
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: maybe you got a boyfriend, maybe you get a girlfriend

1135
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 2: and it's just not for you guys anymore and so cool.

1136
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 2: But you know what, you built a platform of one

1137
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 2: hundred thousand followers, doesn't mean that you can't work with us.

1138
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: Do you want to do marketing for us? Do you

1139
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: want to do the marketing campaigns? Do you want to

1140
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 2: be involved in the community of twenty five to seven

1141
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 2: still be part of the talent like that's happened before

1142
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: and it continues to happen. So that's why the priority

1143
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 2: is building the platform because from there they can launch streaming,

1144
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 2: they can go on Twitch and monetize there, they can

1145
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: monetize on YouTube.

1146
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: But just to be clear, let's say I'm successful on

1147
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: only fans, I'm going to TikTok to build my OnlyFans

1148
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: traffic or it's brand extensions.

1149
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 2: Going it's both. You're going to TikTok to build a

1150
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 2: brand but also to get the most amount of awareness.

1151
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: You convert those people over to your Instagram. The Instagram

1152
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 2: is also now a really good way of discovery because

1153
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: of reels. You convert them ideally to your YouTube and

1154
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: then if they really want to monetize, they buy your

1155
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 2: merch or they continue watching your videos, or they go

1156
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: on your only fan.

1157
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 3: That's why we Hugh was trying to say earlier, like

1158
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 3: people are getting away with bikini pictures and sometimes I

1159
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: even talk anything sexually because they've built their tiktoks and

1160
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 3: YouTube to such a large number and such an intimate

1161
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: level with their following that they'll just pay just to

1162
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 3: get a message back exactly, which is like, it's it's insane,

1163
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 3: Like people are paying five hundred dollars just to get

1164
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 3: a hello back, and we're sitting there like how is

1165
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 3: that possible? But that's the way of them knowing that

1166
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 3: their favorite creator or that person on the other side

1167
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: of that phone will talk to them.

1168
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 2: And also imagine being one of the first five hundred

1169
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 2: girls to dance a dojakat song on TikTok. You're gonna

1170
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 2: get numbers and you're gonna get traffic. So the advantage

1171
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 2: that the digital girls get is they know when we're

1172
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: gonna heat up a song, and so imagine, you know,

1173
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 2: you're you're an artist, your your song drops on Friday.

1174
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 2: You know, by the next Sunday, you're gonna have thirty

1175
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: girls from digital which is twenty five seven media that

1176
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: have hundreds of hundreds of thousands of followers, some of

1177
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: them have millions on TikTok that are now doing your

1178
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: song instant traffic. It's all synergy, which is actually a

1179
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: term I learned from Brendan from Wired, who did the

1180
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 2: article on this. He brought up the you know, the

1181
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 2: Simpsons had this episode on synergy. Ever since he said

1182
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 2: the word synergy, I can't stop saying it. But it

1183
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 2: truly is just, you know, like like a really good

1184
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 2: environment that we build for launching music.

1185
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, harp on only fans,

1186
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: but there are many people participating on only fans who

1187
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: are really not making any money. What works on only

1188
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: fans the.

1189
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 3: Other platforms and other platforms, and that's why we're right.

1190
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: But there are people, let me put it differently, there

1191
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: are people who are basically selling sexual content of whatever

1192
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: stripe on only fans. Does it have to be a

1193
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: certain level of sexual content or is it how you

1194
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: monetize the people.

1195
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 2: Paying no again, and it's it doesn't have to be

1196
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 2: sexual content. It's about the traffic you bring in and

1197
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: the quality of traffic.

1198
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 3: And that's why we're able to and that's.

1199
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 2: Why we're able to do it because a porn I'll

1200
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 2: go deeper, a porn start, for example, does not make

1201
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 2: what a digital girl makes because some of their content

1202
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: is already out there and there's some you know, the

1203
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 2: guy already saw it. There's no need for them to

1204
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,439
Speaker 2: engage with the talent further. And so when you get

1205
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 2: the traffic and you built an interest in an aura

1206
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 2: around you, you're bringing that traffic in and you're monetizing

1207
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 2: on the traffic by simply being a part of their

1208
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 2: community that you can't see. So there are pictures, even

1209
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 2: if they're just bikinia, non sexual stuff. If the girl

1210
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 2: doesn't post the bikini picture on Instagram and the guy

1211
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: he needs to see the bikini picture, he's going to

1212
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 2: see the bikini picture, and he's going to pay for

1213
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: the bikini picture. So just like the rapper that is

1214
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 2: pushing his EP in the McDonald's bag and sending his

1215
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 2: EP to everybody in the drive through, there's a lot

1216
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 2: of people that yes, they had that harsh reality when

1217
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, I made my only fans and no

1218
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 2: one gave a shit because now you know what it's

1219
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 2: like to be an independent rapper, and it's the same thing.

1220
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 2: It's you're pushing this traffic and how do you make

1221
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 2: people care?

1222
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: Okay, let's switch to music. Someone signs with you, guys, Hey,

1223
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: are you looking for numbers before you sign someone? Or

1224
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: will you sign with someone totally raw based on what

1225
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: you hear in their identity?

1226
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 3: Well, we can't at the number factor. We can't compete

1227
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 3: on that just because all the majors and all the

1228
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: distribution companies. If you're doing about thirty five thousand streams

1229
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 3: a day on a cross your catalog, you're on every

1230
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 3: radar and every label is moving towards the data. So

1231
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 3: what we have to go towards is I go based

1232
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 3: off brand. So if I'm sitting in the room with

1233
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 3: someone or I'm talking to that artist, am I actually intrigued?

1234
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 3: And that usually? And if the music is about a

1235
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 3: six out of ten, I'm like, can I actually add

1236
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 3: value to that and get it to a seven, eight

1237
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 3: or even a nine? I go based off brand. Fully,

1238
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 3: so can that artist move me? When I'm in the

1239
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 3: room with that he goes based off only music.

1240
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: Oh okay, but you're in, we're in. How many people

1241
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: are hungry have whatever you're looking for, but really have

1242
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: almost no numbers at all.

1243
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've done that and and again, like like

1244
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 2: Raff said, well, you know, we signed for different reasons.

1245
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 2: But I think that that's why we're a really good balance.

1246
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 2: Like he has just it's just such a good eye

1247
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 2: for talent, not only like music talent, but staff. Like

1248
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 2: I I won't hire someone unless unless I get his

1249
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 2: opinion on it. Okay, okay, But but he also sometimes

1250
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 2: coaches me to not be too caught up in the

1251
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 2: music and how good the music is.

1252
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 3: Bob, it's the why. Like one of our biggest artists

1253
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 3: right now, he's a Mexican artist, grew up in the US,

1254
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 3: grew up in Mexico. Has that duality is figuring out

1255
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 3: himself through you know, both cultures. He's intriguing the music. Well,

1256
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 3: we'll getting there. He's had four or five songs on

1257
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 3: the Billboard charts for dance and electronic, but that started

1258
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: off because of his story so unique. His fans got

1259
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 3: invested in him so that when we put out the music,

1260
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 3: if the music was decent enough, he was gonna win.

1261
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 3: There's other artists that we have to lead with the

1262
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 3: music and then kind of go more old school and

1263
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 3: create the persona of an artist. But he was already

1264
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 3: an artist. He just needed the music.

1265
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, there's there's there are there are true

1266
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 2: I know this sounds cheesy. There are truly people that

1267
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 2: are born stars. He's good at finding those people. But

1268
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 2: I'll come in and say like, hey, this is this person.

1269
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:49,439
Speaker 2: Can He'll be basically, does this guy haven't shot at music?

1270
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 2: And I'll be like honest about it. With the artists

1271
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: that he mentioned, Loumiatina, obviously I had a sop spot

1272
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 2: for him because he's Mexican. On Mexican, we instantly bonded.

1273
01:05:57,400 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 2: But I was honest with with Loomi. When I talked

1274
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: to him, was like, hey, dude, I only really like

1275
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: two of your songs, and you know, will this work?

1276
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I mean we like you, and

1277
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 2: I think I think what I did tell him and

1278
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 2: what I was honest about, I was like, look, I

1279
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 2: don't understand your genre. I'm a fucking boomer out. To him,

1280
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm thirty, so to him, I'm done. It's over for me.

1281
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 2: But I was like, I don't understand this genre, but

1282
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 2: it's fucking groundbreaking and experimental, and I told him that

1283
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 2: it reminded me of like when I lived through Scrillics.

1284
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 2: So to me, Skrillics was one of the most groundbreaking

1285
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 2: things because he was in my world, in the metal world,

1286
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 2: and you know, he went from metal core screamo to dubstep,

1287
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 2: which was basically the electronic version of a breakdown spot

1288
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 2: in a song. I gave him that whole spiel, in

1289
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 2: that whole background and the way that he digested it

1290
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 2: and took it in. And then he became friends with

1291
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: another one of our artists, Psycho, who one of his

1292
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 2: favorite artists is Scrillics, and then Psycho gave him all

1293
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 2: his intel on Scrillics and then the way he digested

1294
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 2: and I saw the gears turning in his head. I

1295
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 2: was like, we strike now, we strike now, and so

1296
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 2: it ended up working out. But we'd be lying if

1297
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: we said, like, even though I'm the music guy, I'd

1298
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 2: be lying if I said, like, when I heard, you know,

1299
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 2: crush club, the genre he created that I was like

1300
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 2: all in on the genre. I was just all in

1301
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 2: on the fact that he was so brave and willing

1302
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 2: to be so groundbreaking.

1303
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you have signed an act. Let's just say for

1304
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: the sake of discussion, their talent lies more in the

1305
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: music than the charisma and personality identity. Obviously, whatever is

1306
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: there is good enough for you because you made the deal.

1307
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: But you're a ground zero. How do you get the

1308
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: music heard?

1309
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 3: Well, first you gotta make the music genre.

1310
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're working now, that's a different f.

1311
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're working shoegaze right now. Shoegaze is gonna is

1312
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 3: gonna come back to the big, big numbers. So from

1313
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 3: there we have to start off with the right mix

1314
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 3: for the new shoegaze sound that's being created a lot

1315
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 3: more muneier. So you get that mix right, you get

1316
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 3: the storytelling right, then you're like, okay, cool, what then

1317
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 3: you start doing market research? What does a shoegaze fan

1318
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 3: look like in twenty twenty three.

1319
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 2: Right, because they they are calling it shoegaze, but the

1320
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: music that they are portraying a shoegaze now is not

1321
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 2: necessarily shoegaze. So see, that's where you get into the

1322
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: old head vitality where it's like, oh, this isn't a

1323
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 2: real shoot, you know what I mean? Right right, right, like,

1324
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 2: but Raf is like, dude, I don't care if it's

1325
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 2: not real shoegaze. Just fucking teach these kids chord progressions

1326
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 2: and then we'll make it work, you know. So that's

1327
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: so Jella who's filming actually right now. He's a really

1328
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 2: skilled engineer. He just had a really good session with

1329
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 2: one of our new shoegaze acts that you know needs

1330
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 2: that engineer. She has the brand, she has the music,

1331
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 2: she has a beautiful boy voice. Now we just got

1332
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 2: to tweak the engineering so that it could it could

1333
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:49,799
Speaker 2: match the sound of today.

1334
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 3: So once that record is done, then we're like, we

1335
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 3: identify the market and then we don't just put the

1336
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 3: music off saying this is a good shoegaze record that

1337
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 3: you should listen to. Let's say that same fan is

1338
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 3: also a fan of this streetwear brand. Then we start

1339
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 3: attacking it through the fashion.

1340
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 1: So the slower Slowerka, you've created the track, Now you're

1341
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: talking about the fan. How do you decide how to

1342
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: reach out?

1343
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: And well, how we talked about the genre and then

1344
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 2: the fan, right so yes.

1345
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 3: So then I I'm a consumer. I look up shoegaze,

1346
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 3: I look up similar artists. I look at people making

1347
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 3: videos to shoegaze songs. So I'm like, if you're doing

1348
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 3: this and you're not getting paid, that means you're a fan.

1349
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 3: I look at their fashion, I look at their age.

1350
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 3: Then I look at what they're also following on social media.

1351
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 3: So I'm like, if these twenty people are following this

1352
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,799
Speaker 3: same fashion trend, I'm gonna hit it through the fashion lens.

1353
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 3: I'm gonna put the song in those fashion pages. So

1354
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 3: now they're thinking they're looking at a T shirt, but

1355
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 3: the music is in the background.

1356
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: Okay, slower, you have these people who are making these videos.

1357
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 1: You have the song. Hey, the point of connection, you say, hey,

1358
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 1: I love what you're doing. I got a new artist.

1359
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 3: No, I don't say that. I don't do that. No,

1360
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 3: I look at that person make I look at that

1361
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 3: person making those videos. I look at their interest. And

1362
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 3: then let's say they're into this T shirt brand, right,

1363
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 3: I go to that T shirt brand and say, here's

1364
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 3: the song for free, put it behind your T shirt ad.

1365
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 3: And then that fan that's been making videos is just

1366
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 3: scrolling and just sees the things that he's interested in.

1367
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 3: That song keeps popping up.

1368
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: Okay, I get it, like just a little bit slower.

1369
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 2: You remember Bad Religion, right of course? All right, so

1370
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 2: I never told I gotta now after this podcast, I'm

1371
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 2: gonna text him and give him as flowers. But like, uh,

1372
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 2: it's the name of Brett epitaph. So Bad Religion. One

1373
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 2: of the things that they did that was so genius

1374
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 2: is uh Bro went to the surfers and the skaters

1375
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 2: and he was like, yo, like, uh use, you know,

1376
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 2: use use Bad Religion And they wanted to pay him,

1377
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 2: and he was like, dude, like, don't pay me because

1378
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:58,799
Speaker 2: back then, remember where they used to do those tapes

1379
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 2: where every single skates would be playing. So he he

1380
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 2: just got every skate shop to be playing Bad Religion.

1381
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 2: When you know, you get all the waves and the

1382
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 2: and the skate videos. It's the same thing.

1383
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but my only But even though Bad Religion was

1384
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: the punk era, di I y, there's much much more

1385
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: product today.

1386
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So you're saying you can always go back

1387
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: to the isdlead No, yeah, but you.

1388
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 1: Can always go find someone you say, I'm gonna give

1389
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: it for free and they're gonna say yes, as supposed

1390
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 1: someone say hey we got twenty people are gonna give

1391
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: it to us for free.

1392
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 2: Oh all right, yeah you can.

1393
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: Okay. So there's always someone who's gonna use your music always, okay. Yeah.

1394
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 2: And the reason I brought that up is because you know,

1395
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 2: that is a subgenre, right, and this will always always

1396
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,919
Speaker 2: be alive for subgenres because your subgenre is a smaller community.

1397
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 2: And if it's a smaller community, you can target. It's

1398
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 2: a smaller target and.

1399
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, it has to be good.

1400
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 3: That's why the miss.

1401
01:11:54,520 --> 01:12:01,879
Speaker 1: Okay, you're there, have you picked out a specific element

1402
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 1: of the song? When you're making the deal with the

1403
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 1: T shirt company? What are you actually sending them? What

1404
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 1: do you want them to use?

1405
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 2: Well, they're not even a company most of the time.

1406
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 2: It's just a kid that's posting his big his most

1407
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 2: favorite outfits. And that's just one example of I'm not

1408
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 2: exaggerating hundreds and I mean hundreds of algorithms that that

1409
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 2: we wait.

1410
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait once again, we have

1411
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: to slow down. You do this every day. My audience

1412
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: is doing this area.

1413
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 3: Okay, So I thought, wait wait, I thought, I so

1414
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 3: we'll go to the T shirt. No.

1415
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: Now, I understand everything you're saying, but I just want

1416
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 1: to make sure I have it stripped. You find someone

1417
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: who's a fan, you see what they're interested, their algorithm,

1418
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: the T shirt and whatever. Blah blah blah. I thought

1419
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 1: you said you contact the T shirt company.

1420
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 3: Correct, So there's he's looking at it a different way.

1421
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 3: I'm looking at it right, But yeah, you contact a

1422
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 3: T shirt company. There's two ways. So I run a

1423
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 3: campaign where I fully control how, what part of a

1424
01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 3: song they're going to use, how they're going to put

1425
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 3: it in the cat. That's one part of the campaign.

1426
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 3: The other campaign, I let the T shirt company or

1427
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 3: another company similar to it, do their own thing. So

1428
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 3: one is I I call the other. The other campaign

1429
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 3: called don't play God because a lot of the times

1430
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 3: there's parts of records that I think it should be

1431
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 3: the hook, but ends up being the first part of

1432
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 3: the verse that goes viral. So so the first campaign

1433
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 3: is exactly what I want it to be. The second campaign,

1434
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 3: I just let the space take over.

1435
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you've done all that. You guys have a lot

1436
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: of expertise in algorithms. You're just not sitting at home

1437
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: waiting to see what happens. No, how do you make

1438
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: it happen?

1439
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 2: So well? What he just said is actually very key

1440
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 2: the don't play God method. In traditional marketing, this is

1441
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 2: called a B testing, which is, you know, raps don't

1442
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 2: play God method, and there's a reason he calls it.

1443
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:58,520
Speaker 2: Then I'll get there. You're going to make the best description,

1444
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 2: The simpler the better, because the simpler means that more

1445
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 2: people are willing to do it, And you're going to

1446
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 2: pick a part of the song that you think makes

1447
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 2: the most sense for them to post in an easy,

1448
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: frictionless way. Sometimes you give the most simple instructions and

1449
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 2: they don't do it, and you want that because sometimes

1450
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 2: they're the expert of their audience and so what's happened,

1451
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 2: which is why he says we don't play God anymore.

1452
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 2: We don't give them like multiple options. We just give

1453
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 2: them one and then we let them run. Is because

1454
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 2: sometimes the kids the audience will pick not only the single,

1455
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 2: they'll pick the part of the song, they'll pick the lyric,

1456
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 2: they'll pick the thing that makes it the it moment.

1457
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 2: They will be better suited to make that decision because

1458
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 2: they're living the algorithm every day.

1459
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 3: And that's what we learn when you're asking them about

1460
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,759
Speaker 3: our business. Earlier, when we were three years doing campaigns

1461
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:57,560
Speaker 3: for other labels, we learned a bunch of patterns of

1462
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 3: communities that are hyper consumers. But we also learned that

1463
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 3: every time the label would tell us they have to

1464
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 3: deliver the message like this, it would never work.

1465
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 2: It would never work.

1466
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 3: So we were like, oh, this is awesome.

1467
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 2: We we'll just let the creative, which is why we

1468
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 2: chuckled when you said, like, okay, so you go when

1469
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 2: you said, uh, okay, so you say I have a

1470
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 2: new artist. Now you never say that, like you know,

1471
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 2: uh some but but you'd be surprised how many you

1472
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 2: know labels would tell us okay, so you're gonna have

1473
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 2: the fan say hey, guys, I just listened to you.

1474
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 2: Da da da da da da, and make sure you

1475
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 2: do the trend just like me. That's never gonna happen.

1476
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 2: It's never gonna work, right, And so that's why you know,

1477
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 2: through trial and error and honestly, by doing so many campaigns,

1478
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,599
Speaker 2: we've determined that the simpler the better. And sometimes when

1479
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 2: you make it so simple, uh, the kid is gonna

1480
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 2: be like these guys know they're.

1481
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: Gonna pick up right. Okay, but let's say you do this.

1482
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna work every time.

1483
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 3: That's the beauty of it.

1484
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 2: As the beauty of it.

1485
01:15:57,800 --> 01:15:59,599
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say it didn't work.

1486
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 2: Then are you gonna do Then the song's not it,

1487
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 2: the products is not you start.

1488
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:05,639
Speaker 1: You're gonna start the same process all over again.

1489
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 2: And we have to and we and and sometimes what's happened.

1490
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 2: I'll give them the example. We spent thirty thousand dollars

1491
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:16,800
Speaker 2: on an artist one of his first campaigns. He's trap metal,

1492
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: that's the genre. It's like metal but like kind of

1493
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 2: hip hop. And we poured it all in on some

1494
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 2: anime edits and for whatever, which is usually the genre

1495
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 2: that works really well for this type of music. For

1496
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 2: whatever reason, it didn't work. And uh, you know, we

1497
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 2: were in the process of picking a different song, and

1498
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 2: we were like, well, maybe we'll try a different song,

1499
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 2: you know whatever, We'll just whatever. Two weeks, I think

1500
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 2: like three weeks went by, and all of a sudden,

1501
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 2: these Japanese wrestlers, female wrestlers are blowing each other up

1502
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 2: like I like blow with with like fireworks. They put

1503
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 2: like they put barbed wire around a chair and fireworks

1504
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 2: and they're being each other with fireworks, and they put

1505
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 2: the song with that video and it went viral. So

1506
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 2: then what we did was, you know what we did.

1507
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 2: We didn't even know that there was a niche of

1508
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 2: Japanese female wrestlers. So what we did is we then

1509
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:14,639
Speaker 2: lit that whole algorithm up, and then we and then

1510
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 2: now the song is.

1511
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you use the magic word algorithm to what degree?

1512
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 1: Let's stay with TikTok because that's run by an algorithm

1513
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:26,679
Speaker 1: that no one seems to be able to one hundred

1514
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 1: percent nail. To what degree do you study the algorithm,

1515
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,759
Speaker 1: try to figure it out, and then try to game

1516
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 1: the system.

1517
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,560
Speaker 2: It's not about gaining the system. It's just about identifying communities.

1518
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 2: That's all it is. Like to bring it back. The

1519
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 2: purpose of at least the mission statement of Facebook is

1520
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 2: to create technology that brings us all closer together. And

1521
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 2: so what that means is that you know, you're not

1522
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 2: gonna actually bring the whole world together, but if you

1523
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 2: can identify enough communities, you can bring those communities together.

1524
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 2: So the algorithm is always going to change of anybody

1525
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 2: tells you like, oh, I know the secrets of the algorithm.

1526
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 2: They may know them for a week, but it changes

1527
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 2: every three months officially, so that means that it changes

1528
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 2: every every month and a half. And so no one

1529
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 2: actually knows the algorithm. But what we know is we

1530
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 2: know how to identify fan bases. We know how to

1531
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: identify subcultures, and we know how to create them, and

1532
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 2: we know how to ignite them in ways that for example,

1533
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 2: like how the Wired article mentioned in ways that maybe

1534
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 2: some of the majors are just not interested in doing.

1535
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you say it changes, they say in three months,

1536
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: one and a half months would be more like it.

1537
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: What literally changes? What do you observe? What changed in

1538
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 1: the algorithm? Talk about the past.

1539
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the past. Sure, So, I mean everybody

1540
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 2: knows the famous ad apocalypse, right, Okay, So if you are,

1541
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 2: you know, a prankster and that's your bread and butter,

1542
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 2: and you have a Lamborghini and you bought a house

1543
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 2: huge mortgage, you know a lot of people who gave

1544
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 2: it back because pranks are no longer suitable for monetization

1545
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:01,839
Speaker 2: to the level that they were on YouTube guidelines because

1546
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 2: of like you know, the harassments reports and all that

1547
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 2: stuff that was going on in the streets, and so yes,

1548
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 2: that is true that the platform itself, the algorithm can

1549
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: literally sweep you under your feet. Sometimes sometimes it's just

1550
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 2: a matter of words that are no longer suitable for

1551
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 2: hashtags or trends. Sometimes it's just the matter of hooks.

1552
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 2: So now the hook is more important than ever on TikTok,

1553
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 2: where back then it was just so awesome seeing something

1554
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 2: vertical go viral on TikTok. Now even a viral video

1555
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 2: has to have a preview of the most enticing moment

1556
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 2: of the video, put it in the intro so that

1557
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 2: it can hook people in. So it's not only the algorithm.

1558
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 2: A lot of people get caught in the algorithm. They

1559
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 2: start blaming the algorithm or they think that they can

1560
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 2: gain the system. No, what you need to consistently understand,

1561
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 2: because humanity is always changing, is you need to consistently

1562
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 2: understand human behavior. And if you know what happened on YouTube,

1563
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 2: and if you know what happened on all these other platforms,

1564
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,880
Speaker 2: and as these other platforms are adopting more of an

1565
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 2: official content creation mode and model, then that's where you

1566
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 2: need to That's where you need to head. And then

1567
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 2: there's also a counter movement of overproduced content to underproduce content.

1568
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,719
Speaker 2: So there are people that are actually gaining more views

1569
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 2: for overproducing their content, like we mentioned, like being more legit,

1570
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 2: learning filmmaking tech tactics and techniques, and there are people

1571
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 2: that are gaining more views by looking raw, authentic and

1572
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 2: uncut and unprofessional.

1573
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 3: Well something that's I mean, I don't know how when

1574
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 3: you get this podcast out, But the reality is if

1575
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 3: someone wants to go viral right now, the videos that

1576
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:35,600
Speaker 3: are going viral right now in this current algorithm is

1577
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 3: videos that are within a loop. So with at the end,

1578
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 3: it finishes the sentences the way you start the video correct,

1579
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 3: and as long as it's in a loop, it goes

1580
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 3: viral and ig and TikTok as of right now, what

1581
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 3: is it November thirtieth, twenty twenty three.

1582
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 2: And the reason for the loop is because the platforms

1583
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 2: realize that they get more watch time instead of see

1584
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 2: so some platform in the beginning with beta testing and

1585
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 2: see that's so it's like no one actually knows how

1586
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 2: to gain the algorithm. No one dominates the algorithm. It's

1587
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 2: just who's paying attention and who's paying attention to human behavior.

1588
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:09,600
Speaker 2: If you paid attention. You remember this and you're like

1589
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 2: a nerd like us. Do you remember when TikTok would

1590
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 2: swipe up on its own after you watch the video?

1591
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,560
Speaker 2: You remember that? Okay, well that's because someone somewhere was

1592
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 2: ab testing something and they thought, hey, we will get

1593
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,799
Speaker 2: more retention and more views if we instantly show them

1594
01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 2: the next video right after. And you know what they realized, No,

1595
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 2: you actually get more retention by looping the video because sometimes,

1596
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:32,679
Speaker 2: believe it or not, even though it's a thirty second video,

1597
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 2: the person didn't pay attention for thirty seconds. So what

1598
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 2: RAF is saying, it's not necessari you're not gaining the algorithm.

1599
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:44,559
Speaker 2: The algorithm does not say, hey, this person here used

1600
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 2: a loop techniques, so I'm gonna give them more views. No, no, no,

1601
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,799
Speaker 2: All that's happening is human behavior. The world is so chaotic,

1602
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 2: and like I said, you know, your shit's just not

1603
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 2: good enough. And if it were good enough, it would

1604
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 2: be getting the attention to something. RAF just gave you

1605
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 2: the sauce. If you're a noticed trying to get signed

1606
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 2: right now, every single label knows you exist. At thirty

1607
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:06,719
Speaker 2: five thousand listeners, period streams, not less streams. Streams period.

1608
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 2: So that's it. But if it's maybe it's just not

1609
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 2: good enough to get sign maybe it's not good enough

1610
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 2: for someone actually reach out. But anyway to finish, to

1611
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 2: finish the loop, to finish the loop, it's it's not

1612
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 2: necessarily that, hey, I added a loop, so the algorithm

1613
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 2: is going to favor me. No, no, no, It's just that

1614
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 2: if you constructed your argument and your video in a

1615
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 2: way where it ends in a loop so that someone

1616
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 2: can watch it again and again and again, maybe five

1617
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 2: times for them to really get the point across, then

1618
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:36,080
Speaker 2: you've done a very successful you know, transmutation of human

1619
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:36,880
Speaker 2: behavior right there.

1620
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:42,679
Speaker 1: Okay, so to what degree do you leverage certain signed

1621
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 1: acts to gain traction for other side acts.

1622
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 3: We have an example. We signed obviously Loomy Athena in

1623
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 3: December January, and then we found that he had a

1624
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 3: friend that made music. I have two hundred and seventeen

1625
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 3: listeners that act now became the feature on a bunch

1626
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 3: of other songs that loom he has, and he was

1627
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 3: able to get his own platform and now he's a

1628
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 3: top forty electronic Dance Artist of the Year and he

1629
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 3: has close to five million monther listeners. But he has

1630
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:22,599
Speaker 3: to be good.

1631
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: I understand.

1632
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, his voice is incredible, and also yeah, so's I

1633
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 3: want to make sure people know that we've done it

1634
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 3: for other people and it hasn't got the same success level.

1635
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 3: You still have to be good. You can only get

1636
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 3: someone else's algorithm, but if you're not good, it will

1637
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 3: wash away.

1638
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And also I do want to say one thing,

1639
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 2: so when we interviewed kid, when we interviewed him to

1640
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 2: see if we would sign him, out of all the

1641
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,800
Speaker 2: years that we've been doing, this is the first kid

1642
01:23:55,800 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 2: that's ever told me, yeah, Prince is my favorite artist.

1643
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: Okay, what I assume I sign with you is leveraging

1644
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 1: me with other talent you have signed dere girl. Can

1645
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: I expect you're gonna do that like a feature on

1646
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 1: a rap song in the old days? Or are you

1647
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 1: basically saying, well, you got to hit a certain amount

1648
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: of status. It's got to work for you.

1649
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 2: No, it has to be. It has to be the

1650
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 2: community in the genre, especially with these gen z. Are

1651
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:33,640
Speaker 2: they're brutal man? Like I know, I keep saying like

1652
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 2: I'm so afraid of them that I am, Like, they're brutal, dude,

1653
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,760
Speaker 2: Like if you tried to introduce like a kid that's

1654
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 2: just not in the community, like that kid would get

1655
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:42,200
Speaker 2: slaughtered and cooked.

1656
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 3: So what we do to facilitate We facilitate it, but

1657
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 3: we don't execute it. So the way we do it

1658
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 3: is we plan recording trips for artists are on the

1659
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 3: same hime. So a we just had a meal together. Oh,

1660
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 3: you guys like each other, play video game together? Oh,

1661
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 3: randomly a song. Now you guys are making together. Ah,

1662
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 3: let's get you back in the studio together and then

1663
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 3: finish it up.

1664
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's pull back the lens halfway. People who are

1665
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 1: not of your vintage, they will say, oh, the TikTok kits,

1666
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: it's just a fragment of a song. There's no real

1667
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:21,679
Speaker 1: artists there.

1668
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 3: They're right, They're right, They're right. I mean, it's it's

1669
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 3: only been three years and they haven't proven themselves. Remember

1670
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 3: Vine Vine, who came out of Vine Lou Combs. Is

1671
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 3: that a fragment of an artist? I don't think so.

1672
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 3: Shawn Mendes, is he a fragment of an artist? I

1673
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 3: don't think so. All those Bieber doing covers wait wait.

1674
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait, that's that's the upside there's always

1675
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: going to be some talented people playing. Let me let

1676
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:58,600
Speaker 1: me pull it back a little bit. The record companies,

1677
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,799
Speaker 1: the major labels, you still published players. The old tricks

1678
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: don't work. As you say, as soon as someone hits

1679
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 1: thirty five thousand streams, they're in. But you can have

1680
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: thirty five thousand streams and you have traffic, but there's

1681
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: not much there. So to what degree are they signing

1682
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 1: things that have no future or are they good at

1683
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: what they do and they only sign the stuff that

1684
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 1: does have a future.

1685
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 2: Well, like Graf said, I mean, we're not saying, you know,

1686
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 2: we're not saying that kid didn't have a future, but

1687
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 2: you know, kid didn't have the platform, but we believed

1688
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: in his voice and we also saw that he was

1689
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 2: daring enough to sing on a genre that had no singers.

1690
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 1: Okay, wait wait wait wait wait wait, Raf, go for it.

1691
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 3: Well, Bob is saying to that, are label signing stuff

1692
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 3: because it's just making money?

1693
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,520
Speaker 1: Yes, But the question is if there's something that's trafficked

1694
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 1: and you can get more traffic, maybe you can even

1695
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:58,400
Speaker 1: cross over to Spotify, but there might end up being

1696
01:26:58,439 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 1: only one song.

1697
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 3: That's fine because the deal sizes are so small nowadays,

1698
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 3: and they're already proven. See, there's being music right now.

1699
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 3: It's the best time to be in music. A lot

1700
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,600
Speaker 3: of people are complaining about the payoffs from platforms and

1701
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:14,679
Speaker 3: all that this is the best time to be in music.

1702
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 3: A kid is doing one hundred thousand streams a day,

1703
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 3: you already know how long how much money that kid

1704
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 3: is gonna make, and you have about a sixteen month

1705
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 3: window of that song hitting its peak and then it's

1706
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 3: gonna decline, So you can do the calculations of what

1707
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,160
Speaker 3: that song, of what that artist is worth on paper.

1708
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 3: There's no more guessing in the music business. The guessing

1709
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,679
Speaker 3: part is is that kid a superstar now? Which goes

1710
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 3: back to the conversation we were having earlier. You have to

1711
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 3: sit in there in the room with them. You have

1712
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 3: to find out their why. And a lot of people

1713
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 3: are not finding the artists.

1714
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 2: Why and they're not interested in doing that correct.

1715
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:53,759
Speaker 3: And not just at the major level, at the independent

1716
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,839
Speaker 3: level too. There's people signing artists and they're not finding

1717
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 3: that why.

1718
01:27:57,439 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: But is your experience you're in the trenches every day.

1719
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: Are they doing the math correct and saying one hit

1720
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: sixteen months blah, blah blah, or are they truly believing, Hey,

1721
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:12,559
Speaker 1: this guy's got this, I'm gonna blow it up.

1722
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 3: Something that it would be silly to say you're not

1723
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 3: doing the math when there's so much data.

1724
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much data.

1725
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 1: A different point.

1726
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 2: No, I okay, I understand your point correctly. My answer

1727
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 2: is me and I hope they're developing people.

1728
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, let's go all the way back to the beginning.

1729
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 1: So we're we have the old school players, pre internet players,

1730
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: pre social media players. What have we established? You said,

1731
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 1: despite all the new players, YouTube is still the most

1732
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 1: powerful platform. You talked about legacy media. You say, well,

1733
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 1: you want to cross over. It gives you attention and

1734
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:55,640
Speaker 1: it pays dividends. We talked about traditional networks whatever, they

1735
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: got a lot of power. They just have to go

1736
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:00,960
Speaker 1: to live streaming. So at the end end of the day,

1737
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 1: to the traditional forgetting the platforms themselves, the tiktoks, youtubes, whatever, Well,

1738
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:11,599
Speaker 1: maybe not YouTube. Do the traditional players the first movers,

1739
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: et cetera? Do they always win in the end or

1740
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:17,880
Speaker 1: is there going to be someone who independently says I

1741
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: know more about it than those people. I can make

1742
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 1: it work for my talent. I'm going to establish my

1743
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 1: own monolithic business.

1744
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 3: Well, it's been happening in Latin music for the last

1745
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 3: fifteen years.

1746
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: Give me more.

1747
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 3: So in Latin music, there's obviously everybody's familiar with Bad Bunny.

1748
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 3: The Bad Bunny deal only happened two or three years ago.

1749
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 3: That was a project that has been developing for about

1750
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 3: seven eight years. It's happening in traditional Mexican music. Those

1751
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 3: artists now are getting acquired by the major labels, but

1752
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:52,639
Speaker 3: they're already doing eighty billion streams before the major label

1753
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 3: comes in comes in. So Latin music has been happening.

1754
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,559
Speaker 3: It's been happening in a lot of other genres outside

1755
01:29:58,600 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 3: of the US.

1756
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: Now I'm asking the first question, Yeah, you've established something.

1757
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: The traditional player comes in, I'm gonna lay a lot

1758
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: of cash and power. I say, yes. Are there people

1759
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 1: who are saying the traditional outlets are clueless. I'm building

1760
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:17,599
Speaker 1: it myself and my goal is not to sell out

1761
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:19,719
Speaker 1: or to make a deal with the traditional players.

1762
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 3: There's companies like ours that exist, and there's other companies

1763
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 3: that are constantly being created. Funding is a big issue, yeah,

1764
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 3: and so they are now third party people. Do you

1765
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 3: do you want to take money from a music company

1766
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 3: or do you want to take money from a venture capitalist.

1767
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 3: That's that's the conversation that's being had right now.

1768
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, because exhibition is free, these

1769
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:50,519
Speaker 1: sites are all free. Why do you need so much money?

1770
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 3: So you catch her record on TikTok. Let's go back

1771
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 3: to the basics, right, you catch her record on TikTok,

1772
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 3: that streaming check, you're not seeing it for four months

1773
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 3: right on the master recording on the publishing right even long.

1774
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,920
Speaker 3: So how are you operate? So you're at you're an artist.

1775
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 3: That's a million, two million, three million month of listeners

1776
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 3: that you're constantly supposed to be feeding your business. But

1777
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:15,519
Speaker 3: there's no you have no money.

1778
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 1: Okay, But my question becomes everything is so diy. Everybody's

1779
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: got a laptop, we're shooting video. Where is the requirement

1780
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:27,720
Speaker 1: for any significant money, especially because no one gives you

1781
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: money for free. If they're giving you the money, they

1782
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:31,559
Speaker 1: want something in return.

1783
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 2: Well, that's why we sell the artists, and that's why

1784
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 2: we partner up with them in the business because.

1785
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,280
Speaker 3: The reality is once you catch that one record pop,

1786
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 3: you're supposed to have a music video done, right, let's

1787
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:42,600
Speaker 3: say the music video is even a thousand dollars, you

1788
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 3: shoot that music video. Let's say the moment you start

1789
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 3: getting streaming, a lot of artists are not clearing their records, right,

1790
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 3: the elephant in the room, right, they're they're dropping all

1791
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 3: these records. And then the producer comes back, it's five

1792
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 3: thousand dollars. So you have to go back.

1793
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 2: You have the millions right now. Now your first check

1794
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:00,759
Speaker 2: is not going to be five that'sn't right.

1795
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 3: So Cade went from two hundred and seventeen listeners to

1796
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 3: five million now. But when he was a two million

1797
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:10,880
Speaker 3: monthly listeners, one of ANRS came back to us and said, hey,

1798
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:14,559
Speaker 3: this bees ten thousand dollars. We hadn't seen a check

1799
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 3: because he just went viral. And then we went back

1800
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:19,320
Speaker 3: to him and said, can we go back to like

1801
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 3: a reasonable number because he just went viral. There's really

1802
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 3: no money here. Yeah, he said, he has two million

1803
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 3: monthly listeners.

1804
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 1: Okay, but I.

1805
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 2: Go back to my point, So why do we need

1806
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 2: the money? It's because, like we here signed the artist.

1807
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 2: So if we signed the artist, that means that we

1808
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:41,760
Speaker 2: have to invest in the brand, and we have to

1809
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:45,160
Speaker 2: invest in their career, and that costs money. At the

1810
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 2: end of the day, you can't you can't escape that.

1811
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 3: But I'm looking at it from just I'm just an

1812
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:51,640
Speaker 3: artist that went viral. Yeah, and then you also need

1813
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 3: a follow up record. That's what's happening too. No one's

1814
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 3: in investing, okay, but let's say all in, I'm in

1815
01:32:57,479 --> 01:32:58,000
Speaker 3: ten k.

1816
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 1: Okay, if I take the ten k from somebody, they're

1817
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 1: gonna want a lot more than ten k back.

1818
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 3: That's why distribution companies on their eyes. That's why a

1819
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 3: lot of the stigma used to be that not stigma.

1820
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 3: I mean, the reality is artists didn't get fair deals.

1821
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:21,840
Speaker 3: Right now, artists are getting extremely fair deals to the

1822
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 3: point where the other side does not care enough and

1823
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 3: they don't do anything. They don't do anything. Hence why

1824
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 3: there's no superstars. Because your partner is used to eating

1825
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,719
Speaker 3: at a certain rate, they're not eating at that level anymore.

1826
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 3: They're not that invested in you as an artist.

1827
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 1: Okay. But okay, your company twenty five to seven Media,

1828
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 1: is it self funded or are you taking money from

1829
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:47,160
Speaker 1: somewhere else?

1830
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,439
Speaker 3: We're self funded right now.

1831
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:57,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So if you're self funded and you sign talent,

1832
01:33:58,360 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: are they going to third parties for money.

1833
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 3: They're not. No, but it gets uh, they're not going

1834
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 3: to third parties, but there's always a major Daniel.

1835
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 1: Okay, but hold that for a second. So in this

1836
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: particular example, you're considering yourselves to be the.

1837
01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 2: Money or the label.

1838
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 1: Okay, but it's certainly not a traditional situation with the

1839
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: three majors in their tentacles. Let's stop there. And you

1840
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: said in the Wired article that you contemplated doing a

1841
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: deal with Mike Kieren, I have certainly known for decades,

1842
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: has a long history in the music business, but ultimately

1843
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 1: you did not. Why did you not make a deal

1844
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: with Mike Kieren in the.

1845
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 3: End, Well, Mike, Mike is a tight end in music.

1846
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 3: Let's just let's just start there. And Uh, when we

1847
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:58,400
Speaker 3: met with him, I was super impressed how he knew

1848
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 3: so much about a and just the future of music

1849
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:03,360
Speaker 3: in general. I'm like, at this level and at what

1850
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 3: you've accomplished like that, it shouldn't be that in tune

1851
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:09,840
Speaker 3: he was really so the reason why we didn't do

1852
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,759
Speaker 3: a deal with Mike and a bunch of other people

1853
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 3: is you've ever been in those email chains and there's

1854
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:18,519
Speaker 3: like thirty people in the email chain and you don't

1855
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:21,160
Speaker 3: know who's actually supposed to do it. We wanted to

1856
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 3: avoid that while we were growing the company because we

1857
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:26,799
Speaker 3: had that issue as artist managers, because we had artists

1858
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:29,599
Speaker 3: signed to Virgin we had ourtist signed and Warner Records,

1859
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 3: we had o artist signed to Geffen, we had artissigned

1860
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:33,519
Speaker 3: to a bunch of other companies.

1861
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:35,759
Speaker 2: On top of that, we're doing the marketing for these majors.

1862
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:39,879
Speaker 3: So we noticed the bigger the email chain, the slower

1863
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:42,439
Speaker 3: the process was. So we're like, we're on the rise

1864
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 3: right now, and we like Mike, but I'm like, we're

1865
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:48,919
Speaker 3: not working with Mike every day. We're working with everybody

1866
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:51,840
Speaker 3: else in that building. We're not working with Todd at

1867
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 3: Alama every day. We're working with everybody else in that building.

1868
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:57,720
Speaker 3: And you know, it's kind of hard to recreate those

1869
01:35:57,760 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 3: type of guys. So we were like, while we're on

1870
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:03,000
Speaker 3: the upward trajectory, we want to do it on our own.

1871
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 2: And another honest answer that we that we gave people

1872
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:10,599
Speaker 2: was just the truth. I mean, like, you know, sometime

1873
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 2: at the time, music was really only one third of

1874
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,560
Speaker 2: our revenue and we have so many other aspects of

1875
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,760
Speaker 2: the business. That we wanted to keep developing, and so

1876
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 2: we basically looked at it like, well, are we going

1877
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:24,120
Speaker 2: to partner up with someone so that they can tell

1878
01:36:24,160 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 2: us what staff to bring in and how to do it,

1879
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 2: or maybe we could take a swing at it for

1880
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 2: a couple of years and kind of you know, build

1881
01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 2: it out ourselves in the way that if it ain't broke,

1882
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:34,360
Speaker 2: don't fix it. And I think that that's what we

1883
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:35,840
Speaker 2: want to try, you know, for a while.

1884
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:40,559
Speaker 1: Okay, but this has been going on since Napster. People

1885
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 1: have said there's going to be disruption. Professor at Harvard

1886
01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: who wrote a whole long article the New Yorker magazine saying,

1887
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 1: ultimately there isn't disruption. What strikes me here is for

1888
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:59,160
Speaker 1: all of this new technology, new platforms, you're always coming

1889
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:02,680
Speaker 1: back to the traditional players. But hang in there for

1890
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:08,000
Speaker 1: a second. Is your goal to sell at a certain

1891
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: number or is your goal to never sell?

1892
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:12,240
Speaker 2: We talk about that.

1893
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 3: Every day when I'm when I'm done having fun with

1894
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 3: my two best friends.

1895
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 1: That's a different issue.

1896
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's the biggest. But that's the real,

1897
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:23,679
Speaker 3: that's the real. I mean, with the numbers that we've

1898
01:37:23,800 --> 01:37:25,840
Speaker 3: got offered for our company, overall.

1899
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:27,280
Speaker 2: Not just the music.

1900
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 3: So we we we would have been fine even before music,

1901
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 3: even before I genuinely enjoy working with my two best friends.

1902
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 1: This is you know, you're not at that point. Okay.

1903
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:44,200
Speaker 1: Usually when people sell out, either they're done or the

1904
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 1: money is just everything's for sale. If I come in

1905
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,439
Speaker 1: here say I'm gonna sell you. Yeah here, let me

1906
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: open my wall. Twenty bucks for your company, No twenty thousand,

1907
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:56,760
Speaker 1: no twenty million. Well, all of a sudden you saying, well,

1908
01:37:56,840 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 1: let me let me think two hundred million. We're in

1909
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 1: and sold. Everything's got a price. But there are companies.

1910
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:09,640
Speaker 1: The music business started really didn't become consolidated to the

1911
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 1: late sixties early seventies. Prior to that it was all

1912
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,880
Speaker 1: independent labels, which ultimately most of them went by the wayside,

1913
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:21,439
Speaker 1: but a number of them survived. They ultimately sold at

1914
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:25,120
Speaker 1: a huge numbers of hundreds, well for hundreds of millions

1915
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:28,759
Speaker 1: of dollars. A and M Records, Island Records, but for

1916
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:33,880
Speaker 1: decades they had operated independently and when they sold, the

1917
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: founders were not young. So the question is, are you

1918
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:44,519
Speaker 1: building a business to compete with traditional players with a

1919
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:47,960
Speaker 1: new paradigm, and are there people like you doing that

1920
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 1: or in reality, are the traditional players always going to

1921
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:51,599
Speaker 1: win in the end.

1922
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:53,720
Speaker 3: They're going to win in the end. I mean, look

1923
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:55,120
Speaker 3: at right, they're going to win in the end.

1924
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:59,559
Speaker 2: Where Yeah, because there's also people like us that the

1925
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:01,920
Speaker 2: moment they even know that they could sell they.

1926
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 3: Say, yeah, correct, So that's that's that's the thing, Like

1927
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:07,599
Speaker 3: there needs to be a unity in the independent space,

1928
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 3: right But what happens is there the big companies are

1929
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:15,559
Speaker 3: getting very smart, like in Grooves merging with the Virgin Music,

1930
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 3: it's still a UMG company. Is that is that considered independent? No,

1931
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:21,720
Speaker 3: that's the You.

1932
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 1: Don't know, but I ask you, as I say, even

1933
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: in the tech space forget music. Yeah, the guys started WhatsApp,

1934
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:30,920
Speaker 1: the guys started Instagram.

1935
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 3: We ultimately got squeezed out.

1936
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:35,439
Speaker 1: They took the check and the big guy said, hey,

1937
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 1: this is where it's going to be. Wasn't that way

1938
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 1: they were out?

1939
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:40,519
Speaker 3: Well, just to give you we've done this is our

1940
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:42,879
Speaker 3: first year as operating as a label. We've done management

1941
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 3: and other stuff. We've done a couple of billion streams.

1942
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 3: Right right now, we're just a little fly in the room.

1943
01:39:47,439 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 3: We're the little mosquito. Let me no one cares.

1944
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:52,839
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let maybe pull let me pull it differently

1945
01:39:53,360 --> 01:39:58,440
Speaker 1: from my perspective. Hey, we're in an era where streaming

1946
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 1: television is the most vital art form to make. That

1947
01:40:02,640 --> 01:40:05,920
Speaker 1: kind of streaming television is expensive. You can shoot on

1948
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:09,519
Speaker 1: your iPhone, but really you can't compete on The other

1949
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 1: extreme is music. You and me. We can cut a

1950
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,520
Speaker 1: record right now and have it up on Spotify almost instantly.

1951
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:18,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean anybody will listen, but the barrier to

1952
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:27,479
Speaker 1: entry is very low. Okay. So ultimately, in music, and

1953
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 1: this hasn't happened now significantly in twenty years, a new sound,

1954
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:38,759
Speaker 1: a new genre comes along and replaces what came for before. Okay,

1955
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:41,639
Speaker 1: we had hairband music, we had the Seattle grunge. Then

1956
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:43,439
Speaker 1: we had a hip hop that we had different types

1957
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 1: of hip hop. Okay, for the last seventeen years ago

1958
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:49,080
Speaker 1: we had If you're a real fan, you could say this,

1959
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:51,519
Speaker 1: but it's not like there was a new Beatles. I mean,

1960
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 1: look at Beyonce, Taylor Swift. They've been in the business

1961
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:56,120
Speaker 1: a long time. By today's standards.

1962
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:58,800
Speaker 2: That was Latin music. Yeah, and they're all telling okay, yeah, no,

1963
01:40:58,880 --> 01:40:59,599
Speaker 2: it's Latin music.

1964
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 1: Okay, but it is very disheartening to hear from people

1965
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 1: like you that are on the cutting edge of this

1966
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:12,840
Speaker 1: that ultimate because let's say, I am talent, okay, it

1967
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 1: bothers me that the talent sells out for two reasons,

1968
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, I hear every day from people who say,

1969
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 1: you know, streaming payouts are bad. Let's forget the people

1970
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:28,120
Speaker 1: who are just delusional, who are never listening to But

1971
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:32,920
Speaker 1: there are people who make deals with major labels, talking

1972
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,600
Speaker 1: to the experts. Maybe at a blue moon you can

1973
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 1: get fifty five percent of the net. Most people are

1974
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:40,800
Speaker 1: way below that thirty percent of the net, and then

1975
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:42,200
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have one hundred and four

1976
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 1: hundred million streams. That adds up no lil nas X.

1977
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: The advance was so heavy it says, you know, I

1978
01:41:49,439 --> 01:41:52,680
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck about what's happening. So at the

1979
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:56,519
Speaker 1: end of the day in this sphere, is everybody going

1980
01:41:56,600 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 1: to sell out? Look at the Titans, Okay, jobs, he

1981
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,880
Speaker 1: gets squeezed out of the company. He comes back after that,

1982
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 1: all the founders wrote contracts where the stocks are. You

1983
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:10,519
Speaker 1: can't squeeze me out, Mark Zuckerberg, you can't squeeze out

1984
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 1: the guy at Snapchat you can't squeeze out, but you're

1985
01:42:14,160 --> 01:42:16,400
Speaker 1: telling me when it comes to the creative end of it,

1986
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:18,680
Speaker 1: everybody's just gonna sell out.

1987
01:42:18,920 --> 01:42:22,240
Speaker 3: Okay, So we're we're on your team. Yeah yeah, right

1988
01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 3: right now. Well we're championing. Even the land companies were like,

1989
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 3: you shouldn't do that. We're we're trying to partner up

1990
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:31,800
Speaker 3: with other entrepreneurs similar to us, and we're like, let

1991
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 3: me help you catch a second third record with your artists.

1992
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:37,000
Speaker 3: We're on your team on that end of it. However,

1993
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 3: there's not a lot of people fighting that fight. Yeah,

1994
01:42:40,280 --> 01:42:42,920
Speaker 3: so it does get lonely the other a lot of

1995
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:44,240
Speaker 3: people are going for that check.

1996
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:47,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another like, like I said, I'll return to look,

1997
01:42:48,120 --> 01:42:51,080
Speaker 2: there are going to be more twenty five seven medias

1998
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:54,280
Speaker 2: and there probably are, and there were, But what I

1999
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:57,400
Speaker 2: smelled is that the moment they could they even know

2000
01:42:57,479 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 2: that they could sell, they sell too early. And then

2001
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:02,720
Speaker 2: the other thing too that he said, we're honest about this,

2002
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:05,720
Speaker 2: like right now we're in the very tip of the

2003
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:08,880
Speaker 2: iceberg of like what we're going to build, and we

2004
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,439
Speaker 2: would love to build something like Island, something like Deaf Jam,

2005
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:15,320
Speaker 2: Like we I mean we're gonna we wear deaf jam jackets,

2006
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:16,960
Speaker 2: like on the low, like when we're not in public,

2007
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:18,080
Speaker 2: when we're just alone and we.

2008
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 3: Just we're fans of like that gritty story.

2009
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:22,280
Speaker 2: However we want to build a story.

2010
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:25,880
Speaker 3: There's there's other people that are not like that are

2011
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:30,720
Speaker 3: our peers. I'm constantly talking to my peers in these

2012
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 3: big buildings. I'm like, you found the artist. The deal

2013
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:39,160
Speaker 3: was twenty thousand dollars, thirty thousand dollars in pocket because

2014
01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:42,080
Speaker 3: they're signing. Our majors are signing artists very very early

2015
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:44,280
Speaker 3: now because they know there's other companies similar to us

2016
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 3: willing to, you know, develop. So I'm like, you could

2017
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:49,599
Speaker 3: do that same deal on your own, but no one's

2018
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:51,719
Speaker 3: actually doing it. Everyone's afraid.

2019
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 2: Everyone's afraid of making their own move.

2020
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:59,600
Speaker 3: And it's scary because because you want to empower people to,

2021
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:02,920
Speaker 3: you know, take the next leap in music and just

2022
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:06,439
Speaker 3: be music entrepreneurs. But then when you see all these

2023
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 3: big mergers happen with Virgin and INgrooves and all these

2024
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:13,960
Speaker 3: big distribution companies just buy up everything, You're like, who

2025
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:18,560
Speaker 3: is the last true distribution partner out there that's not

2026
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:20,240
Speaker 3: owned by a major label.

2027
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:25,120
Speaker 1: Okay, two things. Distribution is king. The talent is not king,

2028
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:28,559
Speaker 1: because if it can't be bought heard, whatever doesn't matter

2029
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:32,280
Speaker 1: how good it is. But unlike anytime previous, let's just

2030
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:36,920
Speaker 1: stay with the music business, distribution has been institutionalized and

2031
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:43,360
Speaker 1: available to all. Okay, So therefore there is more emphasis

2032
01:44:43,400 --> 01:44:47,040
Speaker 1: on the talent than there has been. Now getting noticed,

2033
01:44:47,080 --> 01:44:49,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of steps along the way. But you

2034
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 1: can't say, at the end of the day, well, I

2035
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 1: can't play. You might say I can't get interrestrial radio,

2036
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 1: but it's this audience you know, listening to interrestrial radio anyway.

2037
01:44:58,120 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 3: No, No, you can play, make a lot of money

2038
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:03,000
Speaker 3: and it and it also costs a lot of money,

2039
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:05,360
Speaker 3: and you can make a big impact. You could do

2040
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:10,400
Speaker 3: all that, but until we see an artist truly fully

2041
01:45:10,439 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 3: do it independently. H Ghazi and Empire are an independent

2042
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:19,559
Speaker 3: company that you know champion artists, but a lot of

2043
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 3: artists just haven't taken that h that leap. Everyone just

2044
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 3: at the end of the day sells off for that check.

2045
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 3: Everybody thought bad bunny and that company was never going

2046
01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:32,200
Speaker 3: to do a deal with a Sony or UMG. They

2047
01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:35,280
Speaker 3: did it. So it's when you're telling me like, are

2048
01:45:35,320 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 3: you guys going to be the one to be the difference? Hopefully,

2049
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:41,679
Speaker 3: hopefully we could be an alternative.

2050
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:43,280
Speaker 2: And we and we talk about this every single week.

2051
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 3: But the reality is when you see other you know,

2052
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 3: colleagues and counterparts, uh not doing it, it gets a

2053
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:53,600
Speaker 3: little lonely, okay.

2054
01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:59,400
Speaker 1: But also historically the traditional purveyors don't want something to

2055
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:02,160
Speaker 1: If you look at the history of talent entertainment, yeah,

2056
01:46:02,280 --> 01:46:05,600
Speaker 1: to begin with, from beginning to end, it's always the

2057
01:46:05,680 --> 01:46:08,000
Speaker 1: independence that push the envelope.

2058
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:08,559
Speaker 3: Correct.

2059
01:46:08,760 --> 01:46:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that's changing. And so here's here's

2060
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 2: a take. I mean, you talked about the barrier of entry, right, right,

2061
01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:18,960
Speaker 2: I mean SoundCloud. I mean there's no barrier of entry.

2062
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:21,040
Speaker 2: You don't even need a distributor for soundcland or for YouTube.

2063
01:46:21,080 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 2: You can just upload an asset. Now you know, this

2064
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 2: is a whole other podcast for another day. But AI

2065
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:30,360
Speaker 2: is going to change that level of entry as well.

2066
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:33,200
Speaker 2: Like we're talking skill wise, right, So if you're an

2067
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:35,800
Speaker 2: artist that doesn't know how to work with producers, but

2068
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 2: you can tell an AI to make you a beat

2069
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:40,040
Speaker 2: that sounds like this, like, now, the barrier of entry

2070
01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:44,160
Speaker 2: is even less, right, And so What that means is

2071
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:47,479
Speaker 2: that like a lot of people are scared about that,

2072
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:49,160
Speaker 2: A lot of people think we should regulate it. Da

2073
01:46:49,240 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 2: da da. All that tells me is that, I mean,

2074
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:55,920
Speaker 2: I already saw everybody by a DSLR and think that

2075
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:58,599
Speaker 2: they're a YouTuber and they didn't make it. All that

2076
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:00,240
Speaker 2: tells me is that there's going to be an other

2077
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:04,840
Speaker 2: flood of just garbage out there, and the majors are

2078
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 2: going to depend on independent nucleuses, whether they're management companies

2079
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:14,880
Speaker 2: or independent labels, to identify the quality and those subgenres

2080
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:19,640
Speaker 2: because it's too hard to mobilize that machine. When you

2081
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:24,320
Speaker 2: mobilize that machine to uh for visual representation holding a

2082
01:47:24,360 --> 01:47:27,360
Speaker 2: little bottle cap you if you mobilize the whole building

2083
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:31,040
Speaker 2: to really dive into that, it's really hard. But if

2084
01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:34,759
Speaker 2: that's but if you invest in an independent you know, label,

2085
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 2: it's it's much more easier for you to mobilize and

2086
01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:40,360
Speaker 2: and and capitalize on that moment. Here's the thing when

2087
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:42,920
Speaker 2: I said, we're not exaggerating, we're pretty much experts in

2088
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:45,840
Speaker 2: like hundreds and hundreds of different algorithms and types of

2089
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:47,680
Speaker 2: fans and types of content that exists and how it

2090
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:49,880
Speaker 2: can be repurposed and how we can re you know,

2091
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:53,000
Speaker 2: use it for different genres and what applies like that's

2092
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 2: also what gives birth to different subgenres of music, and

2093
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 2: also different ways that people play video games and how

2094
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,200
Speaker 2: that ties into the lifestyle. And so that was a

2095
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:04,840
Speaker 2: long wind the way of saying that because music and

2096
01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:08,080
Speaker 2: the technology and everything is moving so fast, you're going

2097
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:11,160
Speaker 2: to encounter these subgenres in a very very fast way.

2098
01:48:11,280 --> 01:48:14,439
Speaker 2: And the machine is simply not equipped to identify or

2099
01:48:14,479 --> 01:48:18,519
Speaker 2: even play in such a high frequency. And so you

2100
01:48:18,680 --> 01:48:22,360
Speaker 2: are gonna be seeing distribution companies as well as labels

2101
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:26,680
Speaker 2: partner up more with independent labels. So I think that

2102
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:30,920
Speaker 2: now there's a space for independence to not get crushed

2103
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:33,760
Speaker 2: or swallowed, but to be able to kind of coexist

2104
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:34,519
Speaker 2: with the machine.

2105
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go back a little clean up work.

2106
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:41,960
Speaker 1: You have a musical artist, yep, they have traction, yep.

2107
01:48:43,680 --> 01:48:47,000
Speaker 1: How do you cross it over to a traditional streaming outlet,

2108
01:48:47,040 --> 01:48:51,559
Speaker 1: not YouTube, which is visual, Spotify, Apple, etc. How do

2109
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:55,759
Speaker 1: you draw consumption there whereas there so much low hanging

2110
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:57,519
Speaker 1: fruit money elsewhere that you don't care.

2111
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:04,720
Speaker 3: Uh, well, you got to start off globally first. For

2112
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:07,679
Speaker 3: a company like ours. We have to focus globally because

2113
01:49:10,040 --> 01:49:15,760
Speaker 3: US marketing is expensive. The three majors in the subsidiaries

2114
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:19,280
Speaker 3: are controlling the biggest influencers, so we have to start

2115
01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:23,640
Speaker 3: off globally. So the way we identify a sub niche,

2116
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:28,000
Speaker 3: we have to also identify subcreators or micro creators to

2117
01:49:28,040 --> 01:49:30,519
Speaker 3: you know, get the ball rolling. If then it starts

2118
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:33,799
Speaker 3: working internationally, then we bring it to the US.

2119
01:49:34,360 --> 01:49:34,599
Speaker 2: UH.

2120
01:49:34,640 --> 01:49:40,479
Speaker 3: And then this way we're able to no, not put,

2121
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:42,680
Speaker 3: not go all in on just one record. We can

2122
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:45,639
Speaker 3: do multiple records because the cost is a lot less

2123
01:49:46,120 --> 01:49:47,440
Speaker 3: in the global.

2124
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:50,519
Speaker 2: Markets, which is also why it's such a cool and

2125
01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 2: useful tactic to do ab tech.

2126
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 3: So let me stop there. The reason why I kind

2127
01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:59,799
Speaker 3: of gave almost a pessimistic outlook on like the machine

2128
01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:02,960
Speaker 3: is was gonna win because what's happening globally now is

2129
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:07,880
Speaker 3: those companies that were vendors or like third party for everybody,

2130
01:50:08,120 --> 01:50:11,559
Speaker 3: they're getting acquired by the big companies as well, or

2131
01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:15,880
Speaker 3: the small indie label in UH, you know, Sweden, Germany, whatever,

2132
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:20,160
Speaker 3: they're getting acquired as well. So it's it's UH. And

2133
01:50:20,200 --> 01:50:23,320
Speaker 3: then the even the big majors are focusing more of

2134
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:26,360
Speaker 3: their money and add dollars over there as well. So

2135
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:29,559
Speaker 3: we always just have to be first, first, first, because

2136
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:32,800
Speaker 3: if we're at the same level, they're always gonna beat

2137
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:33,120
Speaker 3: us with.

2138
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:35,360
Speaker 1: Okay, just go back to the very specific question. You

2139
01:50:35,439 --> 01:50:39,800
Speaker 1: have some success, how do you drive play on streaming outlets,

2140
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:40,559
Speaker 1: not YouTube?

2141
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 2: Just an influencer, an influencer push, Yeah, it's a it's

2142
01:50:44,520 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 2: an influencer push or also have the creator. Like here's

2143
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:50,840
Speaker 2: the thing, like, either either you do sweat equity or

2144
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:54,080
Speaker 2: you pay for it, or if you really care about

2145
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:58,760
Speaker 2: your music, you do both. We're fortunate that, uh, we

2146
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:02,280
Speaker 2: work with talent that we're very honest with them and

2147
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:03,559
Speaker 2: we tell them that they also have to push their

2148
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 2: own music, and there they lend themselves to being coached

2149
01:51:06,320 --> 01:51:09,719
Speaker 2: on how to do that. Obviously, we have some tactics

2150
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 2: like he shared where like, you know, we'll create a

2151
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:13,519
Speaker 2: page where we document their life so they don't feel

2152
01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:17,240
Speaker 2: like they are producing the tiktoks. But the truth is

2153
01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:23,759
Speaker 2: that nobody fucking cares man, Like, nobody cares about about

2154
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:26,200
Speaker 2: your music, about your product, nobody cares about your video,

2155
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:28,200
Speaker 2: No one cares about what you're selling. People go on

2156
01:51:28,280 --> 01:51:31,920
Speaker 2: TikTok and social media out of habit now. But no one,

2157
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:34,160
Speaker 2: no one picks up their phone and says, I'm going

2158
01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 2: to see what great song I find on TikTok to.

2159
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we were driving in We were in the

2160
01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:42,679
Speaker 3: Uber and Ursus points to one of those Hollywood buses

2161
01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:45,639
Speaker 3: and he goes, man, you know what's a funny rap?

2162
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:47,680
Speaker 3: I was like, what is it that he goes, No

2163
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:50,800
Speaker 3: one cares about fame anymore because their cousin can get

2164
01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:54,960
Speaker 3: fifteen million views on TikTok. That's why that bus is empty.

2165
01:51:55,200 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just stay on that for a second.

2166
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:00,200
Speaker 2: But to finish that, it's it's the truth, man. No

2167
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:04,480
Speaker 2: like these platforms, you know, the monolith is so beautiful,

2168
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:06,680
Speaker 2: beautifully designed, and it fits in your hand and it's

2169
01:52:06,680 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 2: a habit for you to look down for hours that

2170
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,240
Speaker 2: no one picks up their phone and says, yo, I'm

2171
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:15,559
Speaker 2: going to find my favorite song today, Like no one

2172
01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:17,479
Speaker 2: has a goal saying like, okay, I'm gonna go on

2173
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:19,679
Speaker 2: TikTok right now and I'm gonna find my favorite song

2174
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:21,280
Speaker 2: where I'm gonna go to the show where I'm gonna

2175
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:23,160
Speaker 2: meet the girl in my life's of my life and

2176
01:52:23,160 --> 01:52:25,200
Speaker 2: get married after I meet her at the show, Like,

2177
01:52:25,240 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 2: no one has that in mind.

2178
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:28,880
Speaker 3: But they are looking to shop. They are looking at

2179
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:31,600
Speaker 3: video game clips, they are looking at wrestling clips, they

2180
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:32,759
Speaker 3: are looking at other stuff.

2181
01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:35,559
Speaker 2: They're looking at interest because it's the feedback, it's the

2182
01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:38,160
Speaker 2: feedback machine. You put out, you put out what you like,

2183
01:52:38,520 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 2: the machine gives you back. So music is an accessory. Accessory, accessory, yeah.

2184
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,439
Speaker 3: To the content correct, and then if your music is

2185
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:49,440
Speaker 3: good enough, it becomes primary to that person.

2186
01:52:49,280 --> 01:52:52,799
Speaker 2: Exactly and asked mentioned in the magazine, we're true believers

2187
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:55,120
Speaker 2: of like the nine touch points, which is like someone

2188
01:52:55,120 --> 01:52:57,280
Speaker 2: needs to see something nine times in order to buy it,

2189
01:52:57,920 --> 01:52:59,920
Speaker 2: and then obviously the ten percent role, which was also

2190
01:53:00,040 --> 01:53:02,639
Speaker 2: covered in the Wired article. So it's just a matter

2191
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:04,560
Speaker 2: of volume, but it's also a matter of how you

2192
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:07,000
Speaker 2: can connect. So if you're one of the lucky ones

2193
01:53:07,040 --> 01:53:08,960
Speaker 2: and you're working with an artist that can get coached

2194
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:11,840
Speaker 2: on how to create content themselves, it's the easiest way

2195
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:15,760
Speaker 2: to connect because people actually like the person. Right, So

2196
01:53:16,240 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 2: you've probably heard this before, but it's like it's it's

2197
01:53:19,160 --> 01:53:22,000
Speaker 2: an argument that music people use all the time, Like,

2198
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:24,680
Speaker 2: you know, why why does someone listen to Beyonce? They

2199
01:53:24,720 --> 01:53:27,400
Speaker 2: listen to Beyonce because they feel like a badass. Right.

2200
01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:31,320
Speaker 2: So there's different lifestyles and feelings that an artist can

2201
01:53:31,960 --> 01:53:34,759
Speaker 2: can can like communicate with the way that they make content,

2202
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 2: the way that they make their music videos, the way

2203
01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:40,000
Speaker 2: that they are and so does that music fit the lifestyle?

2204
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:43,800
Speaker 2: Because you are the lifestyle, you are the product because

2205
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:46,600
Speaker 2: these platforms are free, and so the feedback loop and

2206
01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:48,680
Speaker 2: the agreement that you have with the platform and with

2207
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:51,559
Speaker 2: the mountolift is that when you use this device, you're

2208
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:55,479
Speaker 2: constantly looping your feedback and vice versa and that and

2209
01:53:55,560 --> 01:53:57,719
Speaker 2: as it refines, it knows how to sell you things.

2210
01:53:57,880 --> 01:53:59,240
Speaker 2: It knows what to put in front of you so

2211
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:01,360
Speaker 2: that you could stay on the platform as long as possible.

2212
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:03,920
Speaker 2: That's how everybody makes money. That's how we make money.

2213
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 2: That's how the platform makes money.

2214
01:54:05,120 --> 01:54:08,120
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be very simple, you're representing an artist,

2215
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:14,280
Speaker 1: musical artist, other than streaming revenue on YouTube, Spotify at all,

2216
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:16,960
Speaker 1: where's the money and how much money is there?

2217
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 3: The merch business is business is crazy? Is incredible, It's crazy.

2218
01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:25,200
Speaker 1: Okay, But just in terms of x number of views

2219
01:54:25,720 --> 01:54:29,080
Speaker 1: deals with the platforms, is that a business or is

2220
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:31,000
Speaker 1: that very rare? And not much money.

2221
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:34,720
Speaker 2: We've only had deal with Yeah, we've had We've had

2222
01:54:34,720 --> 01:54:36,000
Speaker 2: three deals with with Twitch.

2223
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:38,800
Speaker 3: Oh you're talking about artists.

2224
01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:43,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, there is money with with platform exclusives.

2225
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:50,480
Speaker 2: But see, sometimes, man, I don't want to misspeak. I

2226
01:54:50,480 --> 01:54:53,720
Speaker 2: mean something right now, doing an exclusive deal with a

2227
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,760
Speaker 2: platform is only for the big dogs in my recommendation,

2228
01:54:56,840 --> 01:54:59,560
Speaker 2: you know, because we've done it where we have a

2229
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 2: deal with Twitch and they were great and they're awesome partners,

2230
01:55:03,720 --> 01:55:07,520
Speaker 2: but you know, the exclusivity is just something that you know,

2231
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:11,480
Speaker 2: then you can't livestream on anywhere else. Right, So I

2232
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:14,520
Speaker 2: think that if you're a rising artist or a rising creator,

2233
01:55:15,240 --> 01:55:19,360
Speaker 2: you shouldn't make it your goal to make an exclusive

2234
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:21,640
Speaker 2: deal with a platform. I think that you should be

2235
01:55:21,680 --> 01:55:24,480
Speaker 2: willing to experiment all types of different social media. And

2236
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:26,440
Speaker 2: for example, you know, there's some people that made a

2237
01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:30,919
Speaker 2: deal with meta with Facebook and now they can't benefit

2238
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:35,560
Speaker 2: from the incredible, incredible discovery from TikTok live.

2239
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:38,120
Speaker 3: Like like Rapp said, I mean, let's let me bring

2240
01:55:38,120 --> 01:55:40,160
Speaker 3: it back to music, because now I understand the question

2241
01:55:40,200 --> 01:55:43,400
Speaker 3: a little bit more. TikTok has its own distribution, That's

2242
01:55:43,480 --> 01:55:45,839
Speaker 3: that's true, and we've been approached a couple of times.

2243
01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:51,320
Speaker 3: Why why would you do TikTok is the hot platform

2244
01:55:51,440 --> 01:55:53,960
Speaker 3: right now, but why would you do a deal with

2245
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 3: the platform itself? It's like all those people that deals

2246
01:55:57,080 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 3: with Apple Music. Okay, well what was the benefit of that?

2247
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:06,240
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, Let's say I send both of you to

2248
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:10,200
Speaker 1: Tahiti for four months without your phone, no computer, no phone.

2249
01:56:10,840 --> 01:56:13,720
Speaker 1: You come back, how much have you missed and how

2250
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:14,640
Speaker 1: much of you behind?

2251
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 2: See, that's the beautiful thing about Like I know the

2252
01:56:18,160 --> 01:56:20,640
Speaker 2: way that when content is consumed, and even the way

2253
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:23,600
Speaker 2: that the magazine, the underdog story of the magazine, and

2254
01:56:23,600 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 2: how was portrayed. Like, no one, I promise you, no

2255
01:56:27,160 --> 01:56:31,320
Speaker 2: one actually knows how to gain the algorithm. No one

2256
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:34,920
Speaker 2: knows how to manipulate the algorithm. Like, like, what we

2257
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:39,280
Speaker 2: do is we just pay attention to human behavior. And

2258
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:41,280
Speaker 2: as long as you go back to the core of

2259
01:56:41,320 --> 01:56:43,840
Speaker 2: human behavior, you will always find your footing wherever you

2260
01:56:43,880 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 2: are right because the playing field changes all the time.

2261
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:49,200
Speaker 2: But as long as you can study all I all

2262
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:51,880
Speaker 2: we really need is a week. If we study something

2263
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:53,440
Speaker 2: for a week, we know exactly where we are. And

2264
01:56:53,480 --> 01:56:55,960
Speaker 2: the reason I know that's true is because rap said it.

2265
01:56:56,520 --> 01:56:58,120
Speaker 2: I think this is the first time we've even mentioned

2266
01:56:58,120 --> 01:57:02,240
Speaker 2: it in public. Yeah, we work different territories. Like you

2267
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:04,120
Speaker 2: still have to work the road, my boy, but you

2268
01:57:04,200 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 2: have to work the road in different ways. There's different

2269
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:10,000
Speaker 2: talent in different places, in different countries. Different talent does

2270
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:13,160
Speaker 2: different trends. You have to work different territories and guess what,

2271
01:57:13,320 --> 01:57:15,160
Speaker 2: everything that you think is cool here in the United States,

2272
01:57:15,200 --> 01:57:17,240
Speaker 2: like how I say it, how I said in the beginning, Yo,

2273
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:20,960
Speaker 2: my cousins love Facebook. Mexico loves Facebook. If you think

2274
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:24,400
Speaker 2: Facebook is dead, you're wrong. You're so wrong. And especially

2275
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:27,280
Speaker 2: if you think Snapchat is dead and you're not using Snapchat.

2276
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:30,320
Speaker 2: That's where gen z is. If you're ignoring X just

2277
01:57:30,360 --> 01:57:32,720
Speaker 2: because you may not like the founder or you know

2278
01:57:32,760 --> 01:57:34,920
Speaker 2: you heard something that the founder said that you don't

2279
01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:39,120
Speaker 2: like about him, you're missing. You're missing learning the experience

2280
01:57:39,120 --> 01:57:41,800
Speaker 2: of every platform in different regions. And the beauty of

2281
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:45,560
Speaker 2: working with international talent and working with international creators is

2282
01:57:45,600 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 2: that we've proven time and time again that the reason

2283
01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:50,600
Speaker 2: why we can ride the wave of the algorithm is

2284
01:57:50,600 --> 01:57:52,480
Speaker 2: because we can be in different footing and we just

2285
01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:54,440
Speaker 2: need to analyze it. It takes us no more than

2286
01:57:54,480 --> 01:57:55,960
Speaker 2: a week and we know exactly what to do.

2287
01:57:56,080 --> 01:57:59,600
Speaker 3: And I'll be a lot of that was really good,

2288
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:01,560
Speaker 3: by the way, But I'll add onto that I used

2289
01:58:01,600 --> 01:58:05,480
Speaker 3: to be a song promoter, like I said earlier, for labels,

2290
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:08,760
Speaker 3: and everything was SEO based, So I would make the

2291
01:58:08,840 --> 01:58:10,840
Speaker 3: Bob playlist and everybody that would just.

2292
01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:12,920
Speaker 1: For those who might not be up to speed search

2293
01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:15,440
Speaker 1: engine optimization correct.

2294
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:18,280
Speaker 3: So I would put Bob's playlist and every time someone

2295
01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:20,680
Speaker 3: would look it up, I would have put all those

2296
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:22,920
Speaker 3: songs in there that you would recommend, and then I

2297
01:58:22,920 --> 01:58:25,200
Speaker 3: would sneak in a label song in there as well.

2298
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:29,400
Speaker 3: When that went away, it was like the worst thing

2299
01:58:29,440 --> 01:58:31,240
Speaker 3: that happened in my life because I was like twenty

2300
01:58:31,280 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 3: two and I was like, I have no other hack.

2301
01:58:33,640 --> 01:58:36,440
Speaker 3: This is my only hack. But then I realized, how

2302
01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:39,640
Speaker 3: did I build that playlist? I built that playlist through

2303
01:58:40,120 --> 01:58:44,839
Speaker 3: creating these other pages that had authority in different spaces

2304
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:48,760
Speaker 3: that would recommend music from that playlist. So it goes

2305
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:52,160
Speaker 3: back to the basics. If TikTok goes away, there's gonna

2306
01:58:52,160 --> 01:58:54,520
Speaker 3: be another platform that I just need to transfer my

2307
01:58:54,920 --> 01:59:00,200
Speaker 3: storytelling ability to in a similar manner. Well, how you

2308
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:03,720
Speaker 3: edit a video change. Yes, it's changed from Vine to TikTok,

2309
01:59:04,080 --> 01:59:06,920
Speaker 3: but it's still the same storytelling premise. It's still the

2310
01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:11,040
Speaker 3: same people winning, it's still the same concepts. There's just

2311
01:59:11,080 --> 01:59:13,120
Speaker 3: the editing or the way it's filmed it's a little

2312
01:59:13,120 --> 01:59:13,560
Speaker 3: bit different.

2313
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:17,520
Speaker 1: So twenty five seven media, what's the annual gross?

2314
01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:24,080
Speaker 3: Now, well, it's one more role to daddy. I don't

2315
01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:28,280
Speaker 3: want to put that out there, but over eight figures

2316
01:59:28,280 --> 01:59:28,680
Speaker 3: for sure.

2317
01:59:28,920 --> 01:59:32,080
Speaker 1: Okay, when you zero it out, you have twenty seven employees,

2318
01:59:32,120 --> 01:59:34,000
Speaker 1: and you got to share the money with the creators.

2319
01:59:34,160 --> 01:59:35,640
Speaker 1: Are you in the black or in the red?

2320
01:59:36,040 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 2: We're doing well, Yeah, we're doing well. I'll actually talk

2321
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:40,240
Speaker 2: about that a little bit. So this is something I

2322
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:42,520
Speaker 2: just talked to my brother about, my little brother. So,

2323
01:59:43,320 --> 01:59:48,280
Speaker 2: you know, the stereotype of the agency, record label or

2324
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:52,480
Speaker 2: whatever social media guru person is like here's my Lamborghini

2325
01:59:52,560 --> 01:59:55,920
Speaker 2: and here's like the you know, like, I'm really glad

2326
01:59:55,920 --> 01:59:59,040
Speaker 2: I had these guys and we all check each other,

2327
01:59:59,120 --> 02:00:01,600
Speaker 2: like we don't flex any of that stuff, Like I've

2328
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:02,960
Speaker 2: never posted my car anywhere.

2329
02:00:03,720 --> 02:00:05,320
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna say what kind of CARDI drive?

2330
02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:08,720
Speaker 2: Not gonna say, but it's awesome. I mean, we'll take

2331
02:00:08,720 --> 02:00:10,280
Speaker 2: you to the to the range and then you'll see.

2332
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:16,080
Speaker 2: But the thing is, like, I like actually making a

2333
02:00:16,080 --> 02:00:19,800
Speaker 2: difference in someone's life and employing them. I think that's

2334
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:22,600
Speaker 2: our flex. One thing that we've always flexed since we

2335
02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:25,800
Speaker 2: had one employee to now having twenty seven, is we

2336
02:00:25,880 --> 02:00:27,840
Speaker 2: always say how many employees we have, because I think

2337
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:30,000
Speaker 2: that's the only thing we flex, and we're really proud

2338
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:32,920
Speaker 2: of that. And I'd rather flex our employees. I'd rather

2339
02:00:32,960 --> 02:00:35,920
Speaker 2: flex our talent and show how happy they are than

2340
02:00:35,960 --> 02:00:37,760
Speaker 2: to like flex a car and be like the social

2341
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:38,560
Speaker 2: media group. Guy.

2342
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:42,720
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned a number of times you're a Mexican,

2343
02:00:43,240 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 1: you're an immigrant. Is there something about that you reference

2344
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:51,560
Speaker 1: this but a little bit longer that makes you successful,

2345
02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:55,440
Speaker 1: has more drive? And how do you feel about the

2346
02:00:55,480 --> 02:00:59,960
Speaker 1: immigration situation in America today? And how would you saw

2347
02:01:00,840 --> 02:01:03,000
Speaker 1: everyone's anger about what's going on?

2348
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:09,640
Speaker 3: Oh man, well, well start, okay, let's take it back.

2349
02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:13,760
Speaker 3: So what I'm proud of I'm an immigrant as well.

2350
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:16,560
Speaker 3: I retired my parents. He retired his.

2351
02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:18,680
Speaker 1: Parents, And you're an immigrant from.

2352
02:01:19,480 --> 02:01:22,480
Speaker 3: Born and raised in Greece, but I'm from Albania. So

2353
02:01:22,720 --> 02:01:25,200
Speaker 3: we both retired our parents. When twenty five to seven

2354
02:01:25,280 --> 02:01:28,560
Speaker 3: started doing really well. So that's probably our flex that's

2355
02:01:28,640 --> 02:01:33,400
Speaker 3: our our Leamborghini, right, And that's actually the reason why

2356
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:37,760
Speaker 3: we're winning because the way we invested in our families,

2357
02:01:37,800 --> 02:01:39,760
Speaker 3: we invest in people that work for us and just

2358
02:01:39,880 --> 02:01:44,440
Speaker 3: our talent. As far as the immigration issue, there's so

2359
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:48,120
Speaker 3: many different levels of immigration that we need to talk about.

2360
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:51,120
Speaker 3: Are we talking about high skilled immigration? Are we talking

2361
02:01:51,120 --> 02:01:54,680
Speaker 3: about what's happening because immigration in the East Coast where

2362
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:57,680
Speaker 3: I'm from, and immigration in the West Coast.

2363
02:01:57,960 --> 02:02:00,880
Speaker 2: We had, we had a completely different, complete culture shock

2364
02:02:00,920 --> 02:02:03,200
Speaker 2: when we were when we were just beginning, when we met.

2365
02:02:03,240 --> 02:02:06,280
Speaker 3: And he was talking about immigration like low skilled or

2366
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:11,560
Speaker 3: low skilled workers. I was like, oh, I see the opposite.

2367
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:15,960
Speaker 3: Like these kids get educated in America, they get off

2368
02:02:16,040 --> 02:02:20,480
Speaker 3: for this huge compensation, and then they can't work here.

2369
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's completely different than the experience that you're

2370
02:02:23,680 --> 02:02:27,520
Speaker 3: talking about in California. So I wish I could find

2371
02:02:28,120 --> 02:02:31,320
Speaker 3: a big answer to that. I think it needs to

2372
02:02:31,360 --> 02:02:34,880
Speaker 3: be in phases. I think if people are getting educated here,

2373
02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:37,840
Speaker 3: they need to get addressed if you want them to

2374
02:02:37,880 --> 02:02:41,120
Speaker 3: pay a fine. But you can't educate people and then

2375
02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:42,920
Speaker 3: let them go somewhere else.

2376
02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:48,440
Speaker 1: Okay, you know the fact that the high tech worker

2377
02:02:48,640 --> 02:02:52,640
Speaker 1: and the factor limits that's just nuts. But you were

2378
02:02:52,680 --> 02:02:53,839
Speaker 1: going to say something urseless.

2379
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think when when Rap and I started becoming friends,

2380
02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:00,120
Speaker 2: we had a huge culture shock. I didn't know the

2381
02:03:00,160 --> 02:03:03,520
Speaker 2: East Coast people aren't just open about their immigration status.

2382
02:03:03,560 --> 02:03:06,200
Speaker 2: I think that's a very La Mexican thing, Like we're

2383
02:03:06,280 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 2: just we wore our heart on our sleeves and we

2384
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:11,840
Speaker 2: connect right away when we let people know, like hey man,

2385
02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:14,080
Speaker 2: like I'm you know, like I speak fluently, like let's

2386
02:03:14,120 --> 02:03:16,440
Speaker 2: talk in our language. And you know, he educated me

2387
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:19,880
Speaker 2: in a lot of like the Eastern European traditions, like

2388
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:21,920
Speaker 2: hey man, you keep that shit to yourself, you know,

2389
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, like all that stuff. And and then I

2390
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:26,280
Speaker 2: told him about, like you know, how open it was here,

2391
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:28,440
Speaker 2: and you know, I told him about sanctuary cities, and

2392
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:30,600
Speaker 2: he was just blown away. He was like, what is that?

2393
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:34,440
Speaker 2: You know? And and so yeah, the the to answer

2394
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:38,560
Speaker 2: the question about what makes us different, I mean, uh, look, dude,

2395
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:44,120
Speaker 2: like uh, Raff and I just have amazing parents and

2396
02:03:44,520 --> 02:03:48,640
Speaker 2: we were really really lucky. And if you want to

2397
02:03:48,720 --> 02:03:50,440
Speaker 2: leave the immigrant thing to the side before I bring

2398
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:54,680
Speaker 2: it back, just with that alone. It's it's such an advantage.

2399
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:57,920
Speaker 2: And in the art in the articles mentioned that sometimes

2400
02:03:57,960 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 2: we do take a you know, a mentorship role. We

2401
02:04:00,080 --> 02:04:02,440
Speaker 2: do take like a like a like a fatherly role

2402
02:04:02,520 --> 02:04:05,320
Speaker 2: in and that's true. Man, Like we're big brothers. You know.

2403
02:04:05,440 --> 02:04:07,920
Speaker 2: Sometimes when we have to address an emergency, we could

2404
02:04:08,120 --> 02:04:10,920
Speaker 2: we we we are the fathers, like we broken talent

2405
02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:13,360
Speaker 2: out of hotel rooms, peel them off of balconies, helped

2406
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:16,480
Speaker 2: them in very serious situations, you know, with their family.

2407
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:18,600
Speaker 2: And sometimes we do have to wear that. But we

2408
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:20,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to do that if we didn't have,

2409
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:23,240
Speaker 2: you know, the foundation that we have. Now on top

2410
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:27,520
Speaker 2: of that, you know, imagine having super superhero parents. And

2411
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:29,360
Speaker 2: then on top of that, you know, they have this

2412
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:32,640
Speaker 2: this challenge which is being an immigrant in a completely

2413
02:04:32,680 --> 02:04:37,960
Speaker 2: different country. Right, So pair that with incredible expectations for

2414
02:04:38,120 --> 02:04:40,840
Speaker 2: your kid because they made him go to medical school.

2415
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:42,640
Speaker 2: And my parents didn't talk to me for years because

2416
02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:45,280
Speaker 2: I didn enjoy the military, right, So.

2417
02:04:45,400 --> 02:04:47,200
Speaker 1: What happened with medical school.

2418
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:51,840
Speaker 3: Well, he added Sauce on that I was a biotechnology

2419
02:04:51,920 --> 02:04:57,120
Speaker 3: major where with the University of Connecticut with the premise

2420
02:04:57,200 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 3: of going to medical school. And that's when I came

2421
02:05:00,480 --> 02:05:03,680
Speaker 3: out to La was doing the song promotion stuff, met

2422
02:05:03,800 --> 02:05:05,080
Speaker 3: him and then didn't think.

2423
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:09,840
Speaker 1: That did you finish college? Yeah, okay, I think at

2424
02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:12,440
Speaker 1: this point we're going to close it. I want to

2425
02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:15,920
Speaker 1: thank you guys for being so forthcoming, and there's a

2426
02:05:16,000 --> 02:05:18,680
Speaker 1: lot to chew on here, even for those of us

2427
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:20,040
Speaker 1: who thought we knew what was going on.

2428
02:05:21,440 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 2: Well, I do want to say thank you to to

2429
02:05:23,440 --> 02:05:26,200
Speaker 2: Brendan from from Wired for first of all for connecting

2430
02:05:26,320 --> 02:05:29,400
Speaker 2: us right and then also obviously we're humbled, you know

2431
02:05:29,680 --> 02:05:32,040
Speaker 2: by his story. I didn't have to go to therapy

2432
02:05:32,080 --> 02:05:34,839
Speaker 2: for a whole year because he just he just interviewed

2433
02:05:34,880 --> 02:05:37,400
Speaker 2: me for like once once a once a week for

2434
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:41,200
Speaker 2: an hour and uh and yeah. One of the things

2435
02:05:41,240 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 2: that the story didn't mention that I think, you know

2436
02:05:45,040 --> 02:05:47,560
Speaker 2: we're on this press tour four is we want to

2437
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:50,800
Speaker 2: harp on the fact that, you know, although yeah, we

2438
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:53,360
Speaker 2: are the underdogs, we spent you know, three years doing

2439
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:56,400
Speaker 2: marketing for all the majors and so raff and I

2440
02:05:56,520 --> 02:05:59,560
Speaker 2: are also including that in the message when we start talking,

2441
02:06:00,440 --> 02:06:05,360
Speaker 2: so that you know, our talent also knows kind of

2442
02:06:05,440 --> 02:06:07,600
Speaker 2: like a little bit more of the background, and we honestly, like,

2443
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:11,600
Speaker 2: because it's our life, we don't know what our talent

2444
02:06:11,640 --> 02:06:13,720
Speaker 2: doesn't know. And then until the article came out, we're like, hey,

2445
02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:16,080
Speaker 2: we should probably be more vocal about you know, all

2446
02:06:16,120 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 2: the things that all the things that we've done.

2447
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:20,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, I just want to I just want

2448
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:23,640
Speaker 3: to say thank you to you, Bob for allowing us

2449
02:06:24,200 --> 02:06:28,000
Speaker 3: for your platform to be heard. But I really really

2450
02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:30,920
Speaker 3: want to go back to the the premise that we

2451
02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:33,280
Speaker 3: were talking about earlier, where you were talking about are

2452
02:06:33,560 --> 02:06:38,400
Speaker 3: still independent companies trying We definitely are, and we're looking

2453
02:06:38,440 --> 02:06:41,640
Speaker 3: for more people to try it with us. And if

2454
02:06:41,720 --> 02:06:45,360
Speaker 3: we if this interview inspires another kid that's spending all

2455
02:06:45,440 --> 02:06:47,880
Speaker 3: his time on the internet to create a company like

2456
02:06:47,960 --> 02:06:51,160
Speaker 3: ours and retire their parents, that's all you need really.

2457
02:06:51,160 --> 02:06:53,600
Speaker 2: And let us know, like literally, let us know right now, Hey,

2458
02:06:53,640 --> 02:06:56,640
Speaker 2: I want to retire my parents. I manage artists. What

2459
02:06:56,720 --> 02:06:58,520
Speaker 2: do I do? I want to start a label? How

2460
02:06:58,560 --> 02:06:59,000
Speaker 2: do I do it?

2461
02:06:59,200 --> 02:06:59,240
Speaker 3: Like?

2462
02:06:59,520 --> 02:07:02,360
Speaker 2: Reach out a raph and I because that's that's part

2463
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:03,560
Speaker 2: of the message and that's why we're.

2464
02:07:03,440 --> 02:07:07,440
Speaker 1: Doing about a bing Until next time. This is Bob

2465
02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:08,480
Speaker 1: left sets.

2466
02:07:23,920 --> 02:07:30,280
Speaker 2: M h m hm