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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Coast to Coast. George Nori with you,

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Speaker 2: Chrisavik with us, Chris. Outside of Ezekiel's Wheel in the Bible,

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Speaker 2: any other reference to what you would believe to be

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Speaker 2: ets or aliens?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you know, a lot of religious movements in

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Speaker 3: the eighteenth century, in the nineteenth century were based on

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Speaker 3: aliens and this idea that we're living in a universe

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Speaker 3: just teeming with life. I mean, one of the first

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Speaker 3: religious movements it still exists was Immanuel Swedenborgs, which started

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Speaker 3: in the seventeen fifties, and he claimed to have traveled

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Speaker 3: in visions to other planets and spoken to their inhabitants,

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Speaker 3: and some of those aliens, according to him, travel around

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Speaker 3: in space in luminous spheres looking for information. They're very,

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Speaker 3: very similar to the graves actually. And then when you

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Speaker 3: look at American religious movements in the nineteenth century, you

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Speaker 3: find that the Mormons originally had aliens as an integral

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Speaker 3: part of their theology. Joseph Smith, who founded, of course,

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Speaker 3: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints in

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Speaker 3: eighteen thirty taught that other worlds were inhabited by sentient beings,

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Speaker 3: and the Mormons also believed, of course, and they still do,

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Speaker 3: that God inhabits a star or a planet called colob

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Speaker 3: and that's the physical location of God's throne. It's like

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Speaker 3: the center of the universe. So you have all these

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Speaker 3: interesting ideas. Even though Jehovah's witnessed witnesses believed, or they

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Speaker 3: still do to a certain extent, but I think that

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Speaker 3: they've abandoned this idea recently, that God's throne was in

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Speaker 3: the Plades star cluster. And if you look at the

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Speaker 3: first Seventh day Adventists, they also spoke about extraterrestrials. Ellen Harmon,

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Speaker 3: who became their spiritual leader, had over two thousand visions

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Speaker 3: during her lifetime, including encounters with extraterrestrials. In eighteen forty six,

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Speaker 3: she went into a public trance and described Jupiter and

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Speaker 3: Saturn's inhabitants, saying that they were tall, majestic people. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the whole theme of of alien visitation was such a

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Speaker 3: big part of religion in the nineteenth century, and we've

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Speaker 3: basically forgotten that ever existed. But for example, there's this

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Speaker 3: article in a Mormon newspaper from eighteen forty one that

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Speaker 3: describes a dream where a visitor descends from the sky

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Speaker 3: in a craft, lands in the middle of a crowd

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Speaker 3: of people, and then when he's questioned, he says he's

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Speaker 3: from a distant planet, and then the whole area is

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Speaker 3: illuminated by a light brighter than noon, as they said,

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Speaker 3: or brighter than ten full moons and so on. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this idea of religion they've been teaching about and claiming

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Speaker 3: contact with extraterrestrials for Will over two hundred and fifty years.

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Speaker 2: Back in the seventies, there was a lot of hoopla

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Speaker 2: bah Jesus being an extraterrestrial. Do you remember that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a lot of paperback books which we

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Speaker 3: talked about the Star of Bethlehem and the possibility that

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Speaker 3: Jesus was a space traveler of some kind. And yet again,

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Speaker 3: when I've studied this, I've realized that it goes back

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Speaker 3: at least to the seventeen nineties. I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: like two hundred and forty years old, one hundred and

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Speaker 3: thirty years old. And the reason is actually that Christian

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Speaker 3: thinkers thought, well, if the universe is full of inhabited planets.

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Speaker 3: What's God's relationship with all those extraterrestrials. Did Christ have

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Speaker 3: to dial on every world to spread his message? Are

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Speaker 3: there millions of alien planets filled with sinners? Or did

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Speaker 3: only Earth get cursed with original sin? So you have

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Speaker 3: all of these theologians and thinkers and scholars that proposed

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Speaker 3: that God created one planet after another and then either

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Speaker 3: sent Jesus Christ to each planet where he would be

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Speaker 3: sacrificed again and again and again. Or for example, Henry Moore,

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Speaker 3: who was an English theologian, said in sixteen forty six

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Speaker 3: that God probably sent a message to all of the

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Speaker 3: other planets to convince everybody about the importance of Jesus

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Speaker 3: Christ without having to kill his son in every case,

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Speaker 3: then there was I mean, you can even find this

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Speaker 3: in literature. So in seventeen ninety six there was a

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Speaker 3: German writer called Johann Paul Friedrich Richter who wrote a

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Speaker 3: novel where the spirits of the dead ask Jesus if

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Speaker 3: God exists, and Christ answers that he's traveled throughout the

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Speaker 3: Milky Way to all the planets and has never even

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Speaker 3: found a sign of God at all, and so on

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Speaker 3: and so on. There's actually a poem from nineteen seventeen.

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Speaker 3: A Catholic poet called Alice Maynel wrote this poem called

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Speaker 3: Christ in the Universe where she says that someday in

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Speaker 3: the future, we'll be able to read a million alien Gospels.

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Speaker 3: That was actually her words in the poem in nineteen seventeen,

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Speaker 3: a million alien Gospels because Christ visits all the constellations.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, when writers about fifty years ago started suggesting

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Speaker 3: Christ was an extraterrestrial, they were actually reviving a two

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Speaker 3: hundred year old theological debate. The only difference is they

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Speaker 3: dropped the religious framework and kept their space travel part.

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Speaker 2: Chris, what about the possibilities that the angels were e tees.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love this idea. This again is a very

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Speaker 3: old idea.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Years ago I used to correspond with an English author

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Speaker 3: called w. Raymond Drake who was one of the first

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Speaker 3: ancient Aliens writers. He published a book in the late

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Speaker 3: fifties early sixties called Gods or Spacemen And well, when

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Speaker 3: I was about sixteen years old, I used to call

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Speaker 3: him on the phone and we used to talk, and

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Speaker 3: one day he confessed to me, he said, look, although

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Speaker 3: in all of these books that I write, I say

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Speaker 3: that they were aliens from other planets. That's not really

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Speaker 3: what I think. I think that they were angels from God.

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Speaker 3: I think that he said that they're like on a

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Speaker 3: mission to teach us something very important, and we just

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Speaker 3: have to understand the UFO enigma to to to understand

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Speaker 3: what that message is. And then years later, when I

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Speaker 3: wrote a book called Sources, all about Kennethnold's citing, I

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Speaker 3: spoke to his granddaughter and his daughter and they told

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Speaker 3: me a little bit about Kennethanold's personal beliefs, and one

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Speaker 3: of them was that maybe UFOs or flying sources were

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Speaker 3: kind of intermediary between God or Heaven and the Earth,

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Speaker 3: and that somehow they were trying to communicate ideas to

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Speaker 3: us from some heavenly realm. So these are quite interesting

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Speaker 3: ideas that have appeared many times in eupology.

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Speaker 2: What does your gut tell you?

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Speaker 3: Well, my gut tells me to listen to all of

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Speaker 3: these theories, all these stories, write them down and compare them,

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Speaker 3: because I really want to know what there might be

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Speaker 3: behind all of this. You know, there's also this other

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Speaker 3: theory that UFOs and aliens are actually demons and devils.

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Speaker 3: That's that's quite a popular theory even today. You can

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Speaker 3: find DVDs about this on Amazon, or you can find

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Speaker 3: YouTube channels dedicated to this kind of thing. And what

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Speaker 3: I'm interested in here actually is one of the first

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Speaker 3: people who said he'd seen a flying saucer or a

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Speaker 3: UFO in the twentieth century, a man called William Lamb

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Speaker 3: said he'd seen a UFO in Hubble in Nebraska, and

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Speaker 3: it was piloted by a devil or a demon, and

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Speaker 3: there was a kind of flaming sword, and there was

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Speaker 3: lots of fire and brimstone. But yeah, he thought that

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Speaker 3: they were mainly demonic and not angelic. So we have

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Speaker 3: there this contrast between angels and demons, and people are

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Speaker 3: still wondering whether there's any religious or spiritual content and

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Speaker 3: UFO sightings today.

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Speaker 2: How far back to UFOs outside of the Bible? Outside

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Speaker 2: of the Bible, how far back do you think they go?

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Speaker 2: The reports?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's quite a difficult question because it depends on

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Speaker 3: what we're willing to accept aine as a genuine sighting.

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Speaker 3: The problem with ancient civilizations like Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Greece

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Speaker 3: is that most of their sky records are omen lists.

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Speaker 3: They're not actual dated sightings with witnesses. So the Sumerians

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Speaker 3: and Babylonians did leave writing about celestial phenomena, but they're

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Speaker 3: treated as templates for interpretation and not historical accounts. They'd

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Speaker 3: write things like, well, when you see a fireball that stops,

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Speaker 3: that stops mid flight in the sky, But we don't

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Speaker 3: really know if anyone actually saw this or when. Then

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Speaker 3: maybe the earliest case that could qualify is from around

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Speaker 3: one four hundred and sixty BC. It's a stelle of

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Speaker 3: It is called Gebel Barkal, and it's in Egypt, and

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Speaker 3: it describes something that happened during the reign of Tutmoses

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Speaker 3: the third and according to the inscription, a star came

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Speaker 3: from the south and shot at enemy troops, and it

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Speaker 3: happened at the second hour of the night and apparently

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Speaker 3: completely defeated the enemy who couldn't get up again. And

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Speaker 3: then people have wondered whether this was ball lightning or

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Speaker 3: UFO or just royal propaganda, and to be honest, it's

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Speaker 3: only one's guess. Then, the Romans kept pretty good records

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Speaker 3: of their of their sightings, which they call prodigies or omens.

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Speaker 3: Basically from around two hundred twenty three BC onwards, we

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Speaker 3: have the first dated accounts of strange lights and phantom

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Speaker 3: ships in the sky, shield like objects. Many of these

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Speaker 3: could be explained as meteors or atmospheric phenomena, So it

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Speaker 3: does depend on what you personally want to see. So

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Speaker 3: the honest answer is people have been seeing strange things

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Speaker 3: in the sky throughout recorded history. But the further back

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Speaker 3: you go, the harder it is to separate genuine observation

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Speaker 3: from religious interpretation or propaganda that was filtered through pre

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Speaker 3: scientific understanding.

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Speaker 2: Chris, how would you categorize the stories of leprechauns, fairies,

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Speaker 2: little folklore like that?

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Speaker 3: Well, I find it fascinating because fairies are not only

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Speaker 3: small creatures who, you know, sort of sort of dwarf

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Speaker 3: sized creatures who abducted people. But you can also find

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Speaker 3: witness statements from the start of the twentieth century that

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Speaker 3: relate them to that associate them with them having come

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Speaker 3: from other planets. So there's this moment in time when,

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Speaker 3: of course, pairies originally were considered to have come from

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Speaker 3: a kind of fairyland or which is a mysterious realm

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Speaker 3: that we can't really see, or underground caverns. But there's

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Speaker 3: a moment at the beginning of the twentieth century, around

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Speaker 3: nineteen o three nineteen oh four, when you can find

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Speaker 3: people talking about them as if they had come from

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Speaker 3: another planet. And then the way that they abducted people,

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Speaker 3: they kidnap people for their own purposes. It's very similar

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Speaker 3: to modern abduction counts accounts because there are actually stories

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Speaker 3: about fairies who seem to keep people for breeding purposes,

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Speaker 3: which is it's very interesting because their own their own children,

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Speaker 3: the fairy children were withering away. They were like genetically deficient.

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Speaker 3: So there's this deep parallel between fairies and goblins and

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Speaker 3: that folklore and modern UFOs. There's actually a book by

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Speaker 3: a woman called Barbara Rietti about the Newfoundland and the

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Speaker 3: fairy faith of Newfoundland. It's fascinating. I think it's called

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Speaker 3: Strange Terrain. And as she's interviewing people, I think in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties, nineteen eighties and nineties, they start to

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Speaker 3: realize that they put two and two together and they say, oh,

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Speaker 3: my god, maybe the fairies that my grandparents saw were

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Speaker 3: actually aliens, and that you can see this interesting crossover

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Speaker 3: of ideas just at that moment while she's interviewing them.

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Speaker 2: Fascinthing now, weren't There are some medieval paintings depictions of eties.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is. I mean there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: web pages that talk about religious art, and you can

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Speaker 3: find dozens of paintings circulating on the Internet that supposedly

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Speaker 3: show UFOs. They look like glowing objects in the sky,

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Speaker 3: sometimes even flying sources. The thing is, and what people

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Speaker 3: have to realize is that if you actually isolate any

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Speaker 3: of these objects in the paintings and trace their iconographic history,

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Speaker 3: they really always have an explanation. I mean, some medieval

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Speaker 3: artists were more skilled than others and could paint more

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Speaker 3: accurately what they wanted to depict, But normally you find

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Speaker 3: they're just religious symbols, angelic beings, clouds, or divine light.

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Speaker 3: And it's only our interpretation of what appeared in those

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Speaker 3: paintings that gives the impression that they were UFOs. There's

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Speaker 3: an excellent website by an Italian researcher called Diego corp

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Speaker 3: He I don't know how to pronounce his surname Cuoghi.

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Speaker 3: He's an art expert and he examines dozens or hundreds

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Speaker 3: of these paintings and he explains where where these symbols

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Speaker 3: came from. So I wouldn't say that I've seen any

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Speaker 3: religious paintings or medieval paintings that really convince me that

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Speaker 3: we're looking at UFOs. And then of course a lot

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Speaker 3: of people wonder whether prehistoric etchings and carvings like what

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Speaker 3: you'd find on a rocky hillside might depict flying sources.

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Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, generally speaking, when you

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Speaker 3: see these in books, they just point out like circular

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Speaker 3: objects round things, and well, you know, I mean, the

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Speaker 3: two most common objects we see in the sky are

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Speaker 3: also around the sun and the moon, so it's unlikely

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Speaker 3: that what people find etched into Sterna are truly mysterious

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Speaker 3: objects seen in the sky. Then you have figurines made

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Speaker 3: of clay. There are these statuettes from Japan called the Dogu,

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Speaker 3: and they look like they're wearing astronaut garb with goggles

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Speaker 3: and so on, with all the headgear and even sort

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Speaker 3: of knobs and buttons on their chests. But again you've

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Speaker 3: got to remember that, you know, in shamanic traditions there

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Speaker 3: were ceremonial costumes and in fact, glasses goggles really did exist.

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Speaker 3: The Eskimos had them, so it's so difficult to interpret

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Speaker 3: ancient art.

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