1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Miguel, the Grammy winning ALTS R and B pioneer, 2 00:00:23,356 --> 00:00:26,676 Speaker 1: is back with a new album, Chaos, his first full 3 00:00:26,756 --> 00:00:29,436 Speaker 1: length in eight years. It's the latest step in a 4 00:00:29,516 --> 00:00:31,796 Speaker 1: career that's always pushed the boundaries of R and B, 5 00:00:31,996 --> 00:00:35,516 Speaker 1: from his twenty ten debut, through albums that dabbled in psychedelia, 6 00:00:35,716 --> 00:00:40,076 Speaker 1: dance music, and now touches of eighties industrial and even rancherrhythms. 7 00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:43,396 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Miguel talks with Lea Rose about his 8 00:00:43,476 --> 00:00:46,916 Speaker 1: unreleased twenty twenty three album Viscera, and how suspending himself 9 00:00:46,956 --> 00:00:49,436 Speaker 1: from piercings in his back during its rollout helped him 10 00:00:49,436 --> 00:00:53,636 Speaker 1: surrender control. He also shares a story behind the controversial 11 00:00:53,676 --> 00:00:57,756 Speaker 1: imagery for his single New Martyrs, and despite collaborations with 12 00:00:57,796 --> 00:01:01,636 Speaker 1: Travis Scott, Mariah Carey, and Tamimpala, Miguel explains why he's 13 00:01:01,676 --> 00:01:08,156 Speaker 1: happiest just making music with his friends. This is broken record, 14 00:01:08,556 --> 00:01:18,676 Speaker 1: real musicians, real conversations. Here's Lea Rose in conversation with Miguel. 15 00:01:19,636 --> 00:01:22,156 Speaker 2: Okay, so I want to ask you about the song 16 00:01:22,236 --> 00:01:26,676 Speaker 2: New Martyrs. I'm curious how you came upon the artwork 17 00:01:27,276 --> 00:01:30,196 Speaker 2: for the song and tell me what the artwork is 18 00:01:30,276 --> 00:01:31,996 Speaker 2: how you came up with the idea and what the 19 00:01:32,036 --> 00:01:33,116 Speaker 2: thinking is behind it. 20 00:01:35,156 --> 00:01:36,476 Speaker 3: So the artwork is. 21 00:01:38,036 --> 00:01:42,156 Speaker 4: Almost like a meme because you know, this year, I 22 00:01:42,196 --> 00:01:49,236 Speaker 4: think seeing Luigi Mangioni, you know, carry out what he 23 00:01:49,356 --> 00:01:54,196 Speaker 4: felt was right, regardless of what it meant in terms 24 00:01:54,196 --> 00:01:58,916 Speaker 4: of the law, and morally, seeing how that played out 25 00:01:58,956 --> 00:02:01,636 Speaker 4: and how that resonated with so many people with their 26 00:02:01,756 --> 00:02:05,316 Speaker 4: anger and their angst. And I'm going to go out 27 00:02:05,316 --> 00:02:10,596 Speaker 4: on a limb here and say the disenfranchised and powerless 28 00:02:10,636 --> 00:02:16,116 Speaker 4: feeling of watching a political system sort of cannibalize itself 29 00:02:16,476 --> 00:02:19,316 Speaker 4: right in front of you, and see how corporate interest 30 00:02:19,436 --> 00:02:24,596 Speaker 4: is really infiltrated and manipulated what is meant to be 31 00:02:24,996 --> 00:02:29,876 Speaker 4: an equitable process and all inclusive process. 32 00:02:30,596 --> 00:02:31,876 Speaker 3: It really is infuriating. 33 00:02:32,196 --> 00:02:34,996 Speaker 4: And to see people really get behind an action that 34 00:02:35,036 --> 00:02:38,436 Speaker 4: feels like vigilanteism in any other case would be considered 35 00:02:38,516 --> 00:02:44,636 Speaker 4: absolutely wrong, unjust, but having that context and then also 36 00:02:44,836 --> 00:02:51,516 Speaker 4: understanding the story behind the personal injustice that behind the execution, 37 00:02:52,636 --> 00:02:54,796 Speaker 4: you know, seeing how people respond to that is like 38 00:02:55,276 --> 00:02:59,436 Speaker 4: even I'm like, nah, yeah, I mean, you're really putting 39 00:03:00,116 --> 00:03:06,396 Speaker 4: your money before people's health, You're overlooking your humanity for 40 00:03:06,516 --> 00:03:10,916 Speaker 4: your own greed, and I feel this is a something 41 00:03:10,956 --> 00:03:13,076 Speaker 4: that hit me so hard that I had to really 42 00:03:13,116 --> 00:03:16,356 Speaker 4: look at myself and go, I mean, am I wrong 43 00:03:16,436 --> 00:03:18,116 Speaker 4: for a kind of being in agreement? 44 00:03:18,396 --> 00:03:18,636 Speaker 3: You know? 45 00:03:19,316 --> 00:03:21,836 Speaker 4: Am I wrong for feeling like he kind of did 46 00:03:22,196 --> 00:03:24,916 Speaker 4: the right thing on behalf of a lot of people 47 00:03:24,956 --> 00:03:29,036 Speaker 4: who've been shitted on, you know, and more importantly, like, 48 00:03:29,076 --> 00:03:32,916 Speaker 4: who have you know, had their loved ones at the 49 00:03:32,956 --> 00:03:35,156 Speaker 4: cost of their loved ones, of their own lives of 50 00:03:35,676 --> 00:03:38,996 Speaker 4: you know, so real humanity, you know, at the cost 51 00:03:38,996 --> 00:03:42,276 Speaker 4: of humanity. I think this is something we're going to 52 00:03:42,356 --> 00:03:45,596 Speaker 4: see more and more as we continue. I think that's 53 00:03:45,636 --> 00:03:50,476 Speaker 4: a domino until there's some real correction, you know, until 54 00:03:50,476 --> 00:03:55,236 Speaker 4: there's some real justice established and awaited to make right 55 00:03:55,316 --> 00:03:58,956 Speaker 4: on things moving forward. I think that's why I have 56 00:03:59,036 --> 00:04:03,836 Speaker 4: this dream where I'm like kind of like just doing 57 00:04:03,876 --> 00:04:06,116 Speaker 4: what I feel is right, even though it may seem wrong. 58 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:11,356 Speaker 4: It's very much inspired by seeing that happen, seeing their response, 59 00:04:11,396 --> 00:04:14,556 Speaker 4: and also addressing my own angst, my own anger and 60 00:04:14,596 --> 00:04:21,036 Speaker 4: dissatisfaction with the world as it is not just this country, 61 00:04:21,076 --> 00:04:24,956 Speaker 4: and so New Martyrs is about that line towards the 62 00:04:25,116 --> 00:04:29,676 Speaker 4: end where it's like, yeah, give me what's mine. I 63 00:04:29,716 --> 00:04:32,356 Speaker 4: think a lot of people feel that way, and more 64 00:04:32,396 --> 00:04:35,636 Speaker 4: and more people are going to feel that way more so. 65 00:04:35,916 --> 00:04:37,156 Speaker 3: What's behind that is like. 66 00:04:37,156 --> 00:04:41,556 Speaker 4: Do right by me and right by us, right by 67 00:04:41,596 --> 00:04:45,676 Speaker 4: the world, do the right thing because right now there's 68 00:04:45,716 --> 00:04:47,156 Speaker 4: a lot of wrong being done. 69 00:04:47,316 --> 00:04:49,676 Speaker 3: It's a lot of wrong and it's not. 70 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:52,636 Speaker 4: Like it hasn't been that way and what we know 71 00:04:52,716 --> 00:04:55,716 Speaker 4: to be human history and our but it certainly feels 72 00:04:55,876 --> 00:05:02,076 Speaker 4: as if it is insurmountable or is Yeah, maybe because 73 00:05:02,116 --> 00:05:04,556 Speaker 4: we can tune in on everything at all times, whenever 74 00:05:04,596 --> 00:05:07,716 Speaker 4: we want. But that feeling, I think a lot of 75 00:05:07,716 --> 00:05:10,316 Speaker 4: people feel that way, and that's what inspired That's how 76 00:05:10,356 --> 00:05:12,036 Speaker 4: I feel, and that's what inspired the song. 77 00:05:12,636 --> 00:05:16,356 Speaker 2: How do you toe the line between bringing in these 78 00:05:16,396 --> 00:05:20,716 Speaker 2: bigger issues like I know you've been active in issues 79 00:05:20,756 --> 00:05:25,556 Speaker 2: around immigration and mass incarceration, but you're also known for 80 00:05:25,796 --> 00:05:31,156 Speaker 2: making sensual, sexy baby making music, Like, how do you 81 00:05:31,276 --> 00:05:34,236 Speaker 2: toe the line and talk about both of these things 82 00:05:35,116 --> 00:05:35,996 Speaker 2: at the same time? 83 00:05:37,876 --> 00:05:41,276 Speaker 4: I remind myself that as a human experience and people 84 00:05:41,276 --> 00:05:44,996 Speaker 4: who only focus on are who primarily focus on, you know, 85 00:05:45,676 --> 00:05:51,596 Speaker 4: speaking out about injustice, activism. Artists and musicians who who 86 00:05:51,636 --> 00:05:54,916 Speaker 4: do those things are also human beings, and they also, 87 00:05:56,156 --> 00:05:58,676 Speaker 4: you know, they have their own sexual life, they have 88 00:05:58,756 --> 00:06:02,076 Speaker 4: their own romantic relationships and their experience with those things, 89 00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:05,036 Speaker 4: and it's their prerogative to talk about those things when 90 00:06:05,036 --> 00:06:08,316 Speaker 4: they want, and it's their choice not too or to. 91 00:06:09,516 --> 00:06:11,676 Speaker 4: And this, for me, I think is probably top of 92 00:06:11,716 --> 00:06:15,876 Speaker 4: mind because this is the world that I'm inheriting, that 93 00:06:15,916 --> 00:06:19,836 Speaker 4: I've inherited, and I'm also in a position in my 94 00:06:20,036 --> 00:06:24,076 Speaker 4: age and my experience to hold myself accountable and I 95 00:06:24,116 --> 00:06:28,756 Speaker 4: can't not do that. I'm not twenty one or eighteen 96 00:06:28,876 --> 00:06:32,276 Speaker 4: when I wrote Quickie. It's a different thing, you know. 97 00:06:32,356 --> 00:06:36,196 Speaker 4: And so yeah, these things have become increasingly important in 98 00:06:36,236 --> 00:06:39,676 Speaker 4: my mind, and I think naturally that that is why 99 00:06:39,716 --> 00:06:42,476 Speaker 4: it's becoming more important to in my music. 100 00:06:43,316 --> 00:06:47,116 Speaker 2: Do you ever question, like, if there's someone you're working with, 101 00:06:47,156 --> 00:06:49,796 Speaker 2: like a producer, whoever's in the studio with you, do 102 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,396 Speaker 2: you ever turn to them and say like, oh, is this? 103 00:06:52,596 --> 00:06:53,996 Speaker 2: Am I going too far with this? 104 00:06:54,636 --> 00:06:55,116 Speaker 3: Definitely? 105 00:06:55,236 --> 00:06:57,276 Speaker 2: Is this a downer? Yeah? 106 00:06:57,516 --> 00:07:03,676 Speaker 3: How does that work? I mean it's pretty much like that. 107 00:07:03,716 --> 00:07:04,676 Speaker 3: I'm like, is this too much? 108 00:07:05,276 --> 00:07:09,516 Speaker 4: The great thing about I work with my friends, I 109 00:07:09,556 --> 00:07:12,076 Speaker 4: think I've learned that that's the best way to maintain 110 00:07:12,156 --> 00:07:17,596 Speaker 4: like that sense of play, the permission to explore. 111 00:07:18,516 --> 00:07:19,956 Speaker 3: I just want to work with my friends. 112 00:07:19,996 --> 00:07:24,156 Speaker 4: Man, I've done the transactional thing, and that shit sucks 113 00:07:24,196 --> 00:07:29,756 Speaker 4: all the time. One, it's rarely a collaboration because it's 114 00:07:29,796 --> 00:07:32,916 Speaker 4: easy to do shit, you know, remotely, so it's not 115 00:07:32,956 --> 00:07:35,716 Speaker 4: like we're getting in a room and we're really collaborating, 116 00:07:36,196 --> 00:07:39,076 Speaker 4: at least not in my experience. And when it's no 117 00:07:39,196 --> 00:07:42,596 Speaker 4: friendship in the middle. If that's not the thing, then 118 00:07:42,636 --> 00:07:45,516 Speaker 4: you got to go do some wax shit like promote 119 00:07:45,516 --> 00:07:47,636 Speaker 4: a song that you that you would never ever do 120 00:07:47,756 --> 00:07:50,036 Speaker 4: on your own. It would never come from your expression. 121 00:07:50,356 --> 00:07:53,076 Speaker 4: It's not your point of view. And I to a degree, 122 00:07:53,116 --> 00:07:57,316 Speaker 4: I can appreciate stepping into stepping into someone else's world 123 00:07:57,356 --> 00:08:00,356 Speaker 4: and remaining in your point of view and in your 124 00:08:00,436 --> 00:08:04,556 Speaker 4: style and you know, having a presence in a new way. 125 00:08:04,596 --> 00:08:07,956 Speaker 4: I think there's beautiful times when that's happened, but most 126 00:08:08,036 --> 00:08:11,036 Speaker 4: times it I think in the past when I've seen that, 127 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:13,196 Speaker 4: it's been like people who really fuck with each other, 128 00:08:13,276 --> 00:08:15,516 Speaker 4: like they can go have they can go have a drink, 129 00:08:15,996 --> 00:08:18,436 Speaker 4: they like the same kind of movies, or have something 130 00:08:18,796 --> 00:08:21,596 Speaker 4: at the core that's like, oh no, like, I really 131 00:08:21,636 --> 00:08:24,076 Speaker 4: fuck with you. What happens when it's not like that? 132 00:08:24,156 --> 00:08:26,836 Speaker 4: It's like, now you got to go support not just 133 00:08:26,876 --> 00:08:30,036 Speaker 4: the song, but like the video and then the promo 134 00:08:30,196 --> 00:08:32,316 Speaker 4: behind it that turns out to be mad corny, and 135 00:08:32,316 --> 00:08:36,156 Speaker 4: then you find out the person is really just a politician, 136 00:08:36,356 --> 00:08:38,356 Speaker 4: and then you know what I mean, They're like, you 137 00:08:38,396 --> 00:08:41,196 Speaker 4: don't you could care less, Like it's easy to become 138 00:08:41,796 --> 00:08:44,956 Speaker 4: just some shit you don't want to do. So I 139 00:08:44,996 --> 00:08:47,196 Speaker 4: work with my friends and in a room when I'm 140 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:50,076 Speaker 4: feeling like is this too much, they just be like 141 00:08:50,156 --> 00:08:52,596 Speaker 4: do that, No, just do your shit, like just do it, 142 00:08:53,036 --> 00:08:57,036 Speaker 4: do it, do it all. And most times the things 143 00:08:57,036 --> 00:09:00,956 Speaker 4: that don't fit naturally will sort of kind of like 144 00:09:01,396 --> 00:09:02,796 Speaker 4: they just get pushed to the side. 145 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:09,596 Speaker 2: How do you get in the proper headspace to cord 146 00:09:09,716 --> 00:09:13,756 Speaker 2: and to express yourself and to be vulnerable or to 147 00:09:13,836 --> 00:09:17,036 Speaker 2: be open. Have you found anything over the course of 148 00:09:17,076 --> 00:09:20,356 Speaker 2: your career that really gets you there? Like whether it's 149 00:09:20,396 --> 00:09:24,196 Speaker 2: like having a drink or like push ups or whatever 150 00:09:24,276 --> 00:09:26,796 Speaker 2: it is like a certain time of night, have you 151 00:09:26,876 --> 00:09:28,356 Speaker 2: found anything that gets you there? 152 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:31,796 Speaker 4: I mean in different stages, has been different things. For sure, 153 00:09:31,876 --> 00:09:34,916 Speaker 4: alcohol was a big one, I mean a little tequila 154 00:09:34,956 --> 00:09:37,156 Speaker 4: in the past. Was it before it was whiskey like 155 00:09:37,636 --> 00:09:42,756 Speaker 4: Kaleidoscope dream is like whiskey and weed forties Nope, It's 156 00:09:42,756 --> 00:09:44,636 Speaker 4: like I don't know why I was drinking forties. 157 00:09:45,596 --> 00:09:48,316 Speaker 3: I was like like pounding forties. 158 00:09:47,836 --> 00:09:53,476 Speaker 4: And yeah the aquila and wild Heart actually is the 159 00:09:53,556 --> 00:09:56,596 Speaker 4: quila into mescot. So I was like finding, Wow, I 160 00:09:56,636 --> 00:10:01,196 Speaker 4: was finding like mescov and smoking for sure Wildheart. 161 00:10:01,236 --> 00:10:02,436 Speaker 3: I'm like smoking a lot of weed. 162 00:10:03,276 --> 00:10:06,276 Speaker 4: I also like, I think it's really it's really interesting 163 00:10:06,316 --> 00:10:10,596 Speaker 4: how drugs have influenced music along in these different periods 164 00:10:10,636 --> 00:10:13,476 Speaker 4: of time. I mean, like jazz, it's like speed, you 165 00:10:13,556 --> 00:10:16,596 Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like when jazz heroin right, it's 166 00:10:16,636 --> 00:10:20,356 Speaker 4: like ending right. Or you listen to grunge music and 167 00:10:20,356 --> 00:10:22,996 Speaker 4: you're like, yeah, heroin is this it's a heroin time. 168 00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:27,676 Speaker 4: You're listening to how crack and cocaine influenced you know, 169 00:10:27,796 --> 00:10:31,276 Speaker 4: hip hop, and it's it's play in that timeframe and 170 00:10:31,316 --> 00:10:34,596 Speaker 4: the emerging artists. Drugs and alcohol and all kinds of 171 00:10:34,596 --> 00:10:38,236 Speaker 4: illicit activity have always been a part of music and creativity, 172 00:10:38,516 --> 00:10:41,116 Speaker 4: whether it be fine art or music and fine art. 173 00:10:41,436 --> 00:10:43,716 Speaker 4: For me, getting in that headspace has been different in 174 00:10:43,756 --> 00:10:47,916 Speaker 4: each era. This time, this album. I mean, I still 175 00:10:47,956 --> 00:10:51,356 Speaker 4: love to drink. I hate to even say this, but like, 176 00:10:52,636 --> 00:10:55,236 Speaker 4: if I'm out and there's a photo of me, I 177 00:10:55,276 --> 00:10:57,716 Speaker 4: will guarantee you nine times out of ten I have 178 00:11:00,036 --> 00:11:04,156 Speaker 4: I love I love this guys social lubricat and I'm 179 00:11:04,276 --> 00:11:07,596 Speaker 4: very much a like introvert. Extrovert is like, I'm yeah, same, 180 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:11,316 Speaker 4: I can do that extroverted thing. I very much like 181 00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:13,756 Speaker 4: to be for a time, for a time. The social 182 00:11:13,756 --> 00:11:17,796 Speaker 4: meter is not it's not a large social media, but 183 00:11:18,476 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 4: it exists. And I do think that you know, a 184 00:11:21,276 --> 00:11:24,956 Speaker 4: little mescal with uh with sparkling water and the lime 185 00:11:25,636 --> 00:11:27,436 Speaker 4: kind of extends the battery a little bit. 186 00:11:28,036 --> 00:11:30,396 Speaker 3: That sounds nice, It sounds incredible right now. 187 00:11:32,436 --> 00:11:34,196 Speaker 2: But yeah, you can go out for a period, but 188 00:11:34,236 --> 00:11:36,116 Speaker 2: then you want to like rush home and get into 189 00:11:36,116 --> 00:11:37,756 Speaker 2: the bean bag and just chill and just. 190 00:11:38,316 --> 00:11:41,836 Speaker 4: Right in this room with a record, you know what 191 00:11:41,836 --> 00:11:44,676 Speaker 4: I mean, in a conversation with a couple handful of 192 00:11:44,716 --> 00:11:47,036 Speaker 4: like really fun interesting people, and. 193 00:11:47,036 --> 00:11:51,116 Speaker 2: I'm good, yeah, yeah, no, I feel that very deeply. 194 00:11:51,676 --> 00:11:53,716 Speaker 2: What are you listening to these days? Like, is there 195 00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:58,436 Speaker 2: any new old music you've discovered or what have you 196 00:11:58,516 --> 00:11:59,476 Speaker 2: been reaching for. 197 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:03,116 Speaker 4: New old Well, this album in this period, I've been 198 00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:06,716 Speaker 4: really going back and like leaning into all all my 199 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:11,916 Speaker 4: like more alternative tastes and then fluences, going back to 200 00:12:11,956 --> 00:12:15,316 Speaker 4: Pixie's records, going back to that whole grunge era, so 201 00:12:15,916 --> 00:12:20,556 Speaker 4: all of Nirvana, all of Sound Garden, all of that 202 00:12:20,716 --> 00:12:23,836 Speaker 4: sort of like you know Seattle area, Yeah yeah. Then 203 00:12:23,996 --> 00:12:27,156 Speaker 4: jumping into some of like jungle stuff has been a 204 00:12:27,156 --> 00:12:31,116 Speaker 4: big one. I've been like trying to find ways to 205 00:12:32,396 --> 00:12:38,396 Speaker 4: infuse rhythms and chord progressions that just are nostalgic or 206 00:12:38,476 --> 00:12:40,916 Speaker 4: styles that are nostalgic. 207 00:12:40,396 --> 00:12:41,556 Speaker 3: To my to my youth. 208 00:12:42,476 --> 00:12:42,956 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. 209 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:46,196 Speaker 4: So kum Yah is one of those ones where you'll 210 00:12:46,236 --> 00:12:49,476 Speaker 4: hear a little bit of that, and like Francea, you'll 211 00:12:49,476 --> 00:12:52,716 Speaker 4: get a little bit of that in Chaos. I think overall, 212 00:12:52,756 --> 00:12:55,756 Speaker 4: what I was searching for in listening to music and 213 00:12:56,196 --> 00:13:00,316 Speaker 4: influences like anything that felt dissonant. I felt like there's 214 00:13:00,356 --> 00:13:02,796 Speaker 4: a rub there that that created the tension that I 215 00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:03,596 Speaker 4: was looking for. 216 00:13:04,676 --> 00:13:08,476 Speaker 2: Do you still feel in a place where you're recognizing 217 00:13:08,476 --> 00:13:11,236 Speaker 2: and thinking about chaos or has that all been exercised 218 00:13:11,276 --> 00:13:13,196 Speaker 2: out through the album? 219 00:13:13,676 --> 00:13:13,756 Speaker 4: No. 220 00:13:14,036 --> 00:13:15,036 Speaker 3: On the contrary, I. 221 00:13:16,716 --> 00:13:21,836 Speaker 4: Want to wield it more effectively. I mean my my 222 00:13:21,916 --> 00:13:24,956 Speaker 4: thinking on it is this like it's just about conditions 223 00:13:24,956 --> 00:13:28,836 Speaker 4: to grow are conditions in general? If it's not growing, 224 00:13:28,956 --> 00:13:32,596 Speaker 4: it's dead. Shout out to Lauren Hill. I mean, one 225 00:13:32,596 --> 00:13:34,396 Speaker 4: of the most poignant things that she said in an 226 00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:36,236 Speaker 4: interview is like, if it's not growing, it's dead. And 227 00:13:36,276 --> 00:13:40,956 Speaker 4: it's the truth. And for me, what I've realized is 228 00:13:40,996 --> 00:13:45,516 Speaker 4: that in many ways, I think I've I believe in 229 00:13:45,556 --> 00:13:48,116 Speaker 4: my core that we all need a little chaos to grow. 230 00:13:48,836 --> 00:13:51,996 Speaker 4: Maybe I'm wrong, I know for me that's the outside 231 00:13:52,036 --> 00:13:54,596 Speaker 4: of my depth that Bowie talks about is the place 232 00:13:54,636 --> 00:13:59,996 Speaker 4: where an artist really can thrive. It's the unknowing, it's 233 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:05,636 Speaker 4: the uncertainty that pushes it outside of that comfort zone 234 00:14:05,676 --> 00:14:10,036 Speaker 4: that that means we need to stretch in not ways 235 00:14:10,036 --> 00:14:14,716 Speaker 4: that we necessarily know, but that we need. And so chaos, 236 00:14:14,716 --> 00:14:19,636 Speaker 4: I think in my life this album represents my acknowledgment 237 00:14:19,836 --> 00:14:23,396 Speaker 4: of the chaos that I've created in my life and 238 00:14:23,516 --> 00:14:26,356 Speaker 4: making peace with it in a lot of ways in 239 00:14:26,516 --> 00:14:30,956 Speaker 4: order to better utilize it for my purpose. And while 240 00:14:30,996 --> 00:14:34,076 Speaker 4: I'm here and I want to continue to curate chaos 241 00:14:34,076 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 4: in my life. 242 00:14:36,516 --> 00:14:38,196 Speaker 2: How are you going to do that? How do you 243 00:14:38,236 --> 00:14:41,836 Speaker 2: curate chaos in your life right now, like intentionally like 244 00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:45,716 Speaker 2: mess up a situation just to get the feel that 245 00:14:45,756 --> 00:14:49,236 Speaker 2: feeling and kind of like use that for growth. Is 246 00:14:49,276 --> 00:14:50,036 Speaker 2: that what that means? 247 00:14:50,396 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 4: Not toxic chasts. We don't want any more toxic chaos though. 248 00:14:55,516 --> 00:15:01,116 Speaker 4: Old habits die hard, And I think me stepping into 249 00:15:01,516 --> 00:15:04,436 Speaker 4: my adulthood and my responsibility is one way that I 250 00:15:04,556 --> 00:15:07,956 Speaker 4: ensure that the chaos that I do curate in my 251 00:15:08,076 --> 00:15:12,476 Speaker 4: life is really intentional. So I look at ways of 252 00:15:12,556 --> 00:15:16,476 Speaker 4: like how do I infuse something that is not obvious 253 00:15:17,156 --> 00:15:21,756 Speaker 4: and it's not normal or natural? So taking, I mean 254 00:15:21,876 --> 00:15:24,716 Speaker 4: what a simple way is like like I love that 255 00:15:24,836 --> 00:15:27,276 Speaker 4: port his head on three, Like switch up their whole 256 00:15:27,436 --> 00:15:30,716 Speaker 4: all of their their instruments instead of everyone is playing 257 00:15:30,716 --> 00:15:31,516 Speaker 4: a different instrument. 258 00:15:31,676 --> 00:15:32,236 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? 259 00:15:32,716 --> 00:15:35,476 Speaker 4: Every that's chaos to me because no one is in 260 00:15:35,516 --> 00:15:37,836 Speaker 4: a comfort zone when it's not. 261 00:15:37,956 --> 00:15:39,476 Speaker 3: No, I understand that, you know what I mean. 262 00:15:39,556 --> 00:15:42,516 Speaker 4: So I think of chaos in my life in that way. 263 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:46,596 Speaker 4: We definitely don't want any any more toxicity. Yes, we 264 00:15:46,676 --> 00:15:48,996 Speaker 4: don't need it. It's I don't think that's necessary. 265 00:15:50,356 --> 00:15:54,356 Speaker 2: No, especially not when you're approaching forty. 266 00:15:55,716 --> 00:15:57,916 Speaker 4: I want look, and that's it, isn't it. It's a 267 00:15:57,956 --> 00:15:59,236 Speaker 4: crazy thing because I know. 268 00:15:59,236 --> 00:16:01,236 Speaker 2: For me, I wanted I want all stability. 269 00:16:01,476 --> 00:16:01,676 Speaker 1: Bruh. 270 00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:04,036 Speaker 4: I'm like, like I said, it is like I want 271 00:16:04,036 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 4: to I want peace in my life in general, but again, 272 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:11,876 Speaker 4: controlled chaos in the right places, whether it's like shaking 273 00:16:11,956 --> 00:16:15,996 Speaker 4: up my team and infusing someone who's not in the 274 00:16:16,196 --> 00:16:20,916 Speaker 4: music business in a role that maybe is adjacent in 275 00:16:20,956 --> 00:16:24,116 Speaker 4: a different field, you know, in a different yeah field, 276 00:16:24,436 --> 00:16:26,836 Speaker 4: so that we have fresh thinking that we're we're not 277 00:16:26,956 --> 00:16:31,636 Speaker 4: approaching things in yeah with the constructs of the status 278 00:16:31,716 --> 00:16:35,716 Speaker 4: quo in mind. You know, it's like the chaos that 279 00:16:35,796 --> 00:16:38,596 Speaker 4: means we're breaking rules, but for with a purpose. 280 00:16:39,516 --> 00:16:39,756 Speaker 3: Yes. 281 00:16:40,516 --> 00:16:46,356 Speaker 2: So did you realizing your place in the chaos or 282 00:16:46,996 --> 00:16:49,916 Speaker 2: maybe creating it in some way where you weren't completely 283 00:16:49,956 --> 00:16:54,756 Speaker 2: aware of it. Did you realize that through just natural 284 00:16:55,276 --> 00:16:59,156 Speaker 2: aging or was it through like therapy work. I know 285 00:16:59,196 --> 00:17:01,516 Speaker 2: you're about to turn forty and this album's coming out 286 00:17:01,636 --> 00:17:04,676 Speaker 2: on your fortieth birthday. Yeah, that seems like a really 287 00:17:04,676 --> 00:17:07,996 Speaker 2: big milestone, Like, how are you thinking about turning forty? 288 00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:12,276 Speaker 4: I mean, I think for whatever reason, I've I wrote 289 00:17:12,276 --> 00:17:13,756 Speaker 4: this song when I was much younger that I that 290 00:17:13,796 --> 00:17:17,396 Speaker 4: we never put out called Hardway, which is like I 291 00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:19,556 Speaker 4: always learned the hard way. Actually, no, it's on it's 292 00:17:19,556 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 4: on the first album. What am I talking about? It's 293 00:17:21,396 --> 00:17:26,116 Speaker 4: on the first album. See my brain is oxidizing as 294 00:17:26,116 --> 00:17:31,636 Speaker 4: we speak. There's a song on the first album called 295 00:17:32,156 --> 00:17:34,076 Speaker 4: hard Way, and it's like I always learned the hard way, 296 00:17:34,116 --> 00:17:35,276 Speaker 4: and and I. 297 00:17:35,236 --> 00:17:36,076 Speaker 3: Hate to have like. 298 00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:40,276 Speaker 4: Maybe put that out in the that energy out there, 299 00:17:40,316 --> 00:17:45,236 Speaker 4: or I've accepted that. But in some ways I've been 300 00:17:45,276 --> 00:17:47,916 Speaker 4: able to see things before they happen and change course. 301 00:17:48,636 --> 00:17:51,756 Speaker 4: But in a lot of ways, you know, I have 302 00:17:51,956 --> 00:17:53,916 Speaker 4: learned the hard way, and I've been lucky to not 303 00:17:53,996 --> 00:17:58,556 Speaker 4: learn the hardest way. But I've got a few bruises 304 00:17:58,556 --> 00:18:02,156 Speaker 4: and scars, you know that that you know are reminders, 305 00:18:02,396 --> 00:18:07,316 Speaker 4: And I think that's the that's the journey of life. 306 00:18:07,516 --> 00:18:07,956 Speaker 3: Anyways. 307 00:18:07,956 --> 00:18:11,396 Speaker 4: It's like Unterests Thompson, like not wanting to reach the 308 00:18:11,556 --> 00:18:16,196 Speaker 4: end pristine and clean, but with fire shooting out of 309 00:18:16,236 --> 00:18:19,356 Speaker 4: the back and screeching barely crossing the threshold. I think 310 00:18:19,876 --> 00:18:24,156 Speaker 4: something about that has always been the way that I imagine 311 00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:27,596 Speaker 4: my life kind of going. And thankfully it hasn't meant 312 00:18:28,036 --> 00:18:33,556 Speaker 4: that I have reached the finish line prematurely, and I've 313 00:18:33,556 --> 00:18:36,076 Speaker 4: been here at this point, I want to make sure 314 00:18:36,076 --> 00:18:39,036 Speaker 4: it doesn't happen prematurely. But I do know of its 315 00:18:39,316 --> 00:18:42,156 Speaker 4: seem like a healthy guy like or that's the key, 316 00:18:42,556 --> 00:18:44,956 Speaker 4: seem nah yeah, yeah, yeah, like. 317 00:18:44,916 --> 00:18:47,556 Speaker 2: You seem like healthy mind and body, like you're thinking 318 00:18:47,596 --> 00:18:48,116 Speaker 2: about it. 319 00:18:48,516 --> 00:18:53,276 Speaker 4: I mean, having the opportunity to do this every day, 320 00:18:53,636 --> 00:18:58,156 Speaker 4: you know, and to express one's selves and one's emotions, 321 00:18:59,036 --> 00:19:01,956 Speaker 4: I think is a key. And for me it's been 322 00:19:01,996 --> 00:19:05,836 Speaker 4: the true meditation of my life. And I found you know, 323 00:19:05,876 --> 00:19:11,316 Speaker 4: there's other tools that are super helpful. I think musicians 324 00:19:11,356 --> 00:19:14,436 Speaker 4: and artists and of all me, through through all mediums 325 00:19:14,556 --> 00:19:18,876 Speaker 4: do find real solace and peace when they're able to 326 00:19:18,916 --> 00:19:21,036 Speaker 4: create and they find that connection. 327 00:19:20,836 --> 00:19:22,516 Speaker 3: To the higher thing. 328 00:19:23,276 --> 00:19:25,876 Speaker 4: But overall, I don't want to paint I don't want 329 00:19:25,916 --> 00:19:27,916 Speaker 4: to paint myself into any corner where like I'm like 330 00:19:27,996 --> 00:19:32,636 Speaker 4: out here just causing havoc or anything like that. But 331 00:19:32,676 --> 00:19:34,436 Speaker 4: I do know that, you know, I've had to learn 332 00:19:34,476 --> 00:19:38,516 Speaker 4: some hard lessons like anyone in the world, and I 333 00:19:38,556 --> 00:19:41,396 Speaker 4: think I'm at a place in my life where I 334 00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:46,236 Speaker 4: want to be real intentional about you know, the past. 335 00:19:46,316 --> 00:19:48,396 Speaker 4: Let's taken that I really want to take, you know, 336 00:19:48,676 --> 00:19:51,116 Speaker 4: and ones that actually are worth my time, are worthy 337 00:19:51,156 --> 00:19:54,716 Speaker 4: of the effort, worthy of the risk, as opposed to 338 00:19:54,796 --> 00:19:58,036 Speaker 4: kind of going into things too haphazardly. 339 00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,436 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Miguel after the break. 340 00:20:05,876 --> 00:20:09,836 Speaker 2: Was you getting into the suspension thing where you were 341 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:12,916 Speaker 2: hanging from your piercings? That seems very chaotic to me? 342 00:20:13,716 --> 00:20:17,436 Speaker 2: Is that along the same lines of thinking for you? 343 00:20:17,436 --> 00:20:17,636 Speaker 3: You know? 344 00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:21,116 Speaker 4: The Tribby part about that is that even physiologically what 345 00:20:21,156 --> 00:20:25,116 Speaker 4: that does is it actually well, first and foremost, it's 346 00:20:25,116 --> 00:20:28,916 Speaker 4: like an adrenaline rush, right, and something about that is 347 00:20:29,036 --> 00:20:33,916 Speaker 4: very calming. I found it to be really meditative and 348 00:20:34,996 --> 00:20:40,796 Speaker 4: not chaotic. I mean, doing suspension has a different purpose 349 00:20:40,876 --> 00:20:43,596 Speaker 4: and meaning for every person that has ever done it 350 00:20:43,676 --> 00:20:47,516 Speaker 4: or that practices it. I wouldn't say that I practice suspension. 351 00:20:49,516 --> 00:20:53,036 Speaker 4: But the purpose of doing suspension at the time was 352 00:20:53,076 --> 00:20:56,436 Speaker 4: to open up a conversation that is relevant to this album, 353 00:20:57,156 --> 00:21:00,476 Speaker 4: and that is like, what is my relation to pain? 354 00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:05,516 Speaker 4: Why do I carry pain with pride? What pain am 355 00:21:05,556 --> 00:21:10,596 Speaker 4: I carrying that I'm not really addressing or acknowledging? And 356 00:21:10,636 --> 00:21:14,716 Speaker 4: how is that a part of the story I've written 357 00:21:15,236 --> 00:21:22,356 Speaker 4: about myself? How does that enabling? How is it fueling? 358 00:21:23,796 --> 00:21:26,316 Speaker 4: And how is it like holding me back. It was 359 00:21:26,396 --> 00:21:29,396 Speaker 4: about having that conversation and kind of like giving it 360 00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:33,516 Speaker 4: a visceral reference, but it was all about understanding pain 361 00:21:33,596 --> 00:21:37,396 Speaker 4: and wanting to talk about talk about it publicly, which 362 00:21:37,436 --> 00:21:39,676 Speaker 4: I believe we carried over into this album. 363 00:21:40,476 --> 00:21:44,276 Speaker 2: What happened with that album it evolved. 364 00:21:44,676 --> 00:21:50,116 Speaker 4: It definitely evolved. Viscera was initially it was initially meant 365 00:21:50,156 --> 00:21:52,356 Speaker 4: to be bad Habits sad Anthems, which I still think 366 00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:58,796 Speaker 4: is a fucking ill ast title. And then it became 367 00:22:00,236 --> 00:22:02,956 Speaker 4: not just me wanting to just do an album of 368 00:22:03,036 --> 00:22:05,716 Speaker 4: like kind of like the antithesis of what people know 369 00:22:06,596 --> 00:22:08,636 Speaker 4: most about my music, and I think that it's like 370 00:22:09,316 --> 00:22:15,356 Speaker 4: feel good, romantic, sensual dreamy to kind of go like, 371 00:22:15,396 --> 00:22:19,076 Speaker 4: all right, how do I shake this up and make 372 00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:21,316 Speaker 4: space for the other side of the coin, which is 373 00:22:21,316 --> 00:22:23,676 Speaker 4: like that I do have bad habits, that there are 374 00:22:23,756 --> 00:22:27,316 Speaker 4: sad anthems, and I wanted to do a whole album 375 00:22:27,396 --> 00:22:31,796 Speaker 4: about that, and I think I in that process it 376 00:22:31,836 --> 00:22:34,916 Speaker 4: was getting real heavy. It was like two even for me, 377 00:22:35,036 --> 00:22:38,196 Speaker 4: I was like, maybe some of this stays in the vault. 378 00:22:38,996 --> 00:22:42,476 Speaker 2: Yeah. Did anything from that album carry out over to 379 00:22:42,596 --> 00:22:43,196 Speaker 2: the new album? 380 00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:48,236 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say a good quarter of that record. 381 00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:52,156 Speaker 4: It was actually kind of like became what is chaos? 382 00:22:52,276 --> 00:22:54,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, the album is so good, by the way, or 383 00:22:54,836 --> 00:22:56,636 Speaker 2: what I've heard of the album is so great. 384 00:22:57,036 --> 00:22:58,876 Speaker 3: That's really kind. Thank you so much, Thank you. 385 00:22:59,436 --> 00:23:01,796 Speaker 2: I love the title track. Tell me about just the 386 00:23:01,836 --> 00:23:04,996 Speaker 2: overall sound for it and what your vision was for it, 387 00:23:05,076 --> 00:23:05,876 Speaker 2: how it came together. 388 00:23:07,116 --> 00:23:10,956 Speaker 4: It started out I'd come up across a children's choir 389 00:23:11,316 --> 00:23:15,996 Speaker 4: on Instagram and they had done do you remember that 390 00:23:16,476 --> 00:23:20,836 Speaker 4: the THHXU? It was a crescendo, But it was kind 391 00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:22,756 Speaker 4: of like, yes, you go to the movies for those 392 00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:25,556 Speaker 4: of for those of you who aren't, you know who 393 00:23:25,596 --> 00:23:27,836 Speaker 4: don't haven't been to the movies back in like the 394 00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:31,236 Speaker 4: nineties or before that. You know, as you intro a movie, 395 00:23:31,236 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 4: they wanted to flex the sound in the room, and 396 00:23:34,196 --> 00:23:37,796 Speaker 4: very often the companies would have an audio kind of 397 00:23:37,876 --> 00:23:40,636 Speaker 4: intro to give you a sense of like the ability 398 00:23:40,756 --> 00:23:44,396 Speaker 4: and you know how incredible the sound system was and 399 00:23:45,356 --> 00:23:47,836 Speaker 4: I think it's thx Please correct me. I'm sure someone 400 00:23:47,876 --> 00:23:51,196 Speaker 4: will afterwards. But it was one of those companies that 401 00:23:51,756 --> 00:23:55,156 Speaker 4: it had this beautiful crescendo, a chordal crescendo, and these 402 00:23:55,276 --> 00:23:59,636 Speaker 4: kids were doing that that crescendo, but with their voices 403 00:23:59,676 --> 00:24:03,796 Speaker 4: a children's choir doing it a glissano up or a 404 00:24:03,916 --> 00:24:06,716 Speaker 4: port upwards. And I was like, man, this is so cool. 405 00:24:06,956 --> 00:24:09,516 Speaker 4: And I asked the children, so, you know, asked them 406 00:24:09,556 --> 00:24:12,676 Speaker 4: to come and they did, and they basically saying this 407 00:24:12,836 --> 00:24:13,596 Speaker 4: part it's just. 408 00:24:13,516 --> 00:24:18,236 Speaker 3: A then. 409 00:24:20,516 --> 00:24:24,436 Speaker 4: And they do like a that whole gliss report and 410 00:24:25,356 --> 00:24:27,116 Speaker 4: I just was like, this is the coolest shit. 411 00:24:27,396 --> 00:24:29,116 Speaker 3: And I was like, we got to use that. 412 00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:33,596 Speaker 4: Kind of sampled that first, and then I programmed like 413 00:24:33,596 --> 00:24:37,636 Speaker 4: a rough drum section that I felt was like I 414 00:24:37,716 --> 00:24:41,516 Speaker 4: wanted it to drive because I had this idea about 415 00:24:41,596 --> 00:24:46,556 Speaker 4: talking about just chaos and what chaos is place in 416 00:24:46,596 --> 00:24:50,396 Speaker 4: my life, and it just felt kind of the notes 417 00:24:50,436 --> 00:24:53,236 Speaker 4: felt like they were giving me that It's dramatic, you know, 418 00:24:53,316 --> 00:24:56,116 Speaker 4: it feels very dramatic, and it is kind of it 419 00:24:56,236 --> 00:24:56,956 Speaker 4: kind of pulls you in. 420 00:24:57,076 --> 00:24:59,676 Speaker 2: It's a little bit haunting too, it's a little bit creepy. 421 00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:00,556 Speaker 3: Yeah. 422 00:25:00,676 --> 00:25:03,996 Speaker 4: It was just interesting the emotional context of visually watching 423 00:25:04,036 --> 00:25:05,756 Speaker 4: them really be in it and like kind of the 424 00:25:05,876 --> 00:25:08,396 Speaker 4: joy they're getting out of performing this thing. 425 00:25:08,516 --> 00:25:11,796 Speaker 3: But then how the how it feels, how the notes. 426 00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:14,236 Speaker 4: Feel against each other, and I thought that was the 427 00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:17,076 Speaker 4: perfect place, and it sparked this idea that you know, 428 00:25:17,156 --> 00:25:21,636 Speaker 4: in my life, I've subconsciously, i think, curated chaos in 429 00:25:21,676 --> 00:25:25,596 Speaker 4: one way or the other in my life, and I've 430 00:25:26,116 --> 00:25:28,716 Speaker 4: i think I've finally kind of come to a place 431 00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:31,956 Speaker 4: where I'm understanding what that's about. I've never really taken 432 00:25:31,996 --> 00:25:35,476 Speaker 4: time to really look at it, and that really set 433 00:25:35,516 --> 00:25:38,796 Speaker 4: off the whole, the whole idea. It was like, man, 434 00:25:38,836 --> 00:25:41,356 Speaker 4: there's a there's a childlike part of me that plays 435 00:25:41,396 --> 00:25:43,116 Speaker 4: into this, and there's a joy that I get out 436 00:25:43,116 --> 00:25:45,396 Speaker 4: of it that I don't understand, and that's why the 437 00:25:45,436 --> 00:25:47,556 Speaker 4: first line is like I think I'm better under pressure, 438 00:25:47,996 --> 00:25:50,716 Speaker 4: and that sort of sets the stage for the album, 439 00:25:51,076 --> 00:25:53,276 Speaker 4: you know, and and the. 440 00:25:53,236 --> 00:25:57,116 Speaker 3: Rest kind of kind of unfolds as it goes. So cool. 441 00:25:58,476 --> 00:26:01,956 Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that for the title track, you made 442 00:26:01,996 --> 00:26:05,796 Speaker 2: sort of what sounds like a sketch of the beat, 443 00:26:06,556 --> 00:26:07,676 Speaker 2: and then you passed. 444 00:26:07,396 --> 00:26:08,556 Speaker 3: It to Bray. 445 00:26:08,876 --> 00:26:11,836 Speaker 4: That's my that's my one of my best friends, and 446 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:14,796 Speaker 4: we've worked on this album a lot together, so we 447 00:26:14,876 --> 00:26:20,156 Speaker 4: produced the song together. But the drum programming specifically is 448 00:26:20,236 --> 00:26:23,596 Speaker 4: like that's his. I mean, he's incredible across the board, 449 00:26:24,116 --> 00:26:26,716 Speaker 4: but I mean the way the drums hit, that's definitely 450 00:26:26,836 --> 00:26:27,716 Speaker 4: his shit. 451 00:26:27,956 --> 00:26:28,876 Speaker 3: I learned a lot. 452 00:26:28,756 --> 00:26:32,316 Speaker 4: Working with him through this album, so on the technical 453 00:26:32,396 --> 00:26:33,916 Speaker 4: side and as a producer. 454 00:26:33,996 --> 00:26:36,436 Speaker 2: So is that normally how it goes for you? Like 455 00:26:36,476 --> 00:26:40,636 Speaker 2: do you normally make sketches of the music and then 456 00:26:40,796 --> 00:26:43,436 Speaker 2: pass it to him or what's the process usually? 457 00:26:43,596 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 3: Like it varies kind of. 458 00:26:46,676 --> 00:26:50,636 Speaker 4: Starting with Kaleidoscope Dream, I really got in my executive 459 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:54,396 Speaker 4: producer bag and really wanted to focus on the overall 460 00:26:54,476 --> 00:26:57,676 Speaker 4: vision of the album and what that was communicating. 461 00:26:58,476 --> 00:26:58,956 Speaker 3: Overall. 462 00:26:59,996 --> 00:27:04,516 Speaker 4: I didn't produce, though I had. I was very much 463 00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:08,996 Speaker 4: involved in the sonic nature of Kaleidoscope Dream and that 464 00:27:09,316 --> 00:27:11,876 Speaker 4: kind of gave me a lot of confidence to actually 465 00:27:11,956 --> 00:27:15,156 Speaker 4: use my own production. The only song that I produced 466 00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:18,676 Speaker 4: on Kaleidoscope Dream is Adorn and that's like wow, top 467 00:27:18,676 --> 00:27:20,916 Speaker 4: to bottom. So it was kind of the first time 468 00:27:20,956 --> 00:27:22,516 Speaker 4: I had like I was. 469 00:27:22,476 --> 00:27:24,516 Speaker 3: Like, all right, fuck it, like they fuck with it. 470 00:27:24,556 --> 00:27:27,756 Speaker 4: But I was very I wasn't sure if it was 471 00:27:28,356 --> 00:27:31,396 Speaker 4: if it was gonna work commercially or anything like that, 472 00:27:31,436 --> 00:27:33,316 Speaker 4: like if it was going to feel professionally enough. 473 00:27:33,196 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 3: Or what have you. 474 00:27:34,876 --> 00:27:37,036 Speaker 4: Really, Yeah, so that's the first time I really like 475 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:41,636 Speaker 4: my production was released professionally and actually was you know, 476 00:27:42,356 --> 00:27:45,156 Speaker 4: became something that was a success commercially. 477 00:27:45,316 --> 00:27:47,956 Speaker 2: Wow. So yeah, does that make you feel like as 478 00:27:47,996 --> 00:27:51,796 Speaker 2: a producer, does that validate your skills and your ear? 479 00:27:52,116 --> 00:27:53,876 Speaker 2: Like what did that do to you as an artist? 480 00:27:53,996 --> 00:27:55,396 Speaker 2: Knowing how well that song did. 481 00:27:57,356 --> 00:28:02,156 Speaker 4: I mean, it's definitely encouraging. But there's absolute levels. There 482 00:28:02,196 --> 00:28:05,836 Speaker 4: are levels to this shit. And the great thing about 483 00:28:06,316 --> 00:28:10,716 Speaker 4: me is like, I'm not so focused on on how 484 00:28:10,796 --> 00:28:13,876 Speaker 4: things sound sonically as much as I care about what 485 00:28:13,916 --> 00:28:17,356 Speaker 4: they how they feel, you know, And I think there's 486 00:28:17,396 --> 00:28:19,196 Speaker 4: a bit of ignorance that I always want to keep. 487 00:28:20,476 --> 00:28:21,316 Speaker 3: I kind of like that. 488 00:28:21,436 --> 00:28:23,316 Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't really know like what I did there, 489 00:28:23,356 --> 00:28:26,756 Speaker 4: but it just felt right And that's maybe my own 490 00:28:26,996 --> 00:28:30,996 Speaker 4: my own idiosyncrasy or whatever. But there's definite levels to 491 00:28:31,076 --> 00:28:32,836 Speaker 4: this and it's it is a science for a lot 492 00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:37,396 Speaker 4: of people. That's why you that's there's incredibly successful producers 493 00:28:37,436 --> 00:28:40,956 Speaker 4: who know down to the just down to the t 494 00:28:41,276 --> 00:28:46,116 Speaker 4: on how to emphasize things in different ways to like. 495 00:28:46,076 --> 00:28:48,516 Speaker 2: A doctor Dre like he's supposed to be like an 496 00:28:48,516 --> 00:28:51,796 Speaker 2: incredible engineer producer obviously. 497 00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:55,076 Speaker 3: But also Dre like, yes, yes, but then you know, 498 00:28:55,956 --> 00:29:00,156 Speaker 3: Dre is different without Quick. You have to listen. 499 00:29:00,236 --> 00:29:02,596 Speaker 4: You gotta know that DJ Quick is in there mixing 500 00:29:03,356 --> 00:29:07,756 Speaker 4: and carving in a way that gives that sound like 501 00:29:07,796 --> 00:29:10,316 Speaker 4: that's a lot of that is Quick's DNA And like 502 00:29:10,356 --> 00:29:13,596 Speaker 4: anybody who knows knows this Quick as is DJ Quick 503 00:29:13,676 --> 00:29:18,676 Speaker 4: is an incredible fucking engineer like and producer. So Dre 504 00:29:18,876 --> 00:29:21,516 Speaker 4: is Dre and it's always gonna be Dre. But you know, 505 00:29:21,756 --> 00:29:24,636 Speaker 4: like you're like we're saying, is like to know the 506 00:29:24,716 --> 00:29:29,636 Speaker 4: science of yes how as Cidic Dave Sidek is one 507 00:29:29,676 --> 00:29:33,116 Speaker 4: of my brothers and best friends. Also on this album 508 00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:35,036 Speaker 4: my one of my favorite things, and this is him 509 00:29:35,116 --> 00:29:37,836 Speaker 4: his theory on life. He's like, one cut is worth 510 00:29:37,836 --> 00:29:42,396 Speaker 4: a million boosts and that is so true across life, 511 00:29:42,436 --> 00:29:46,476 Speaker 4: across music. It's like it's not always about adding a 512 00:29:46,476 --> 00:29:49,676 Speaker 4: lot of times the magic is there because the magic 513 00:29:49,796 --> 00:29:52,636 Speaker 4: was instinctual, that was that came from something else. Your 514 00:29:53,076 --> 00:29:56,156 Speaker 4: your choice is in the in the inspirational moment, in 515 00:29:56,196 --> 00:30:00,276 Speaker 4: that oh I'm inspired now, all of those things that's 516 00:30:00,356 --> 00:30:04,196 Speaker 4: meant to be there. And then most times, and he 517 00:30:04,236 --> 00:30:07,876 Speaker 4: would say, you know, nine times out of ten, take 518 00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:11,796 Speaker 4: something out, cut something out, eq that out. What's the 519 00:30:11,836 --> 00:30:15,756 Speaker 4: most important part about that frequency. What's the most penetrating 520 00:30:15,836 --> 00:30:18,796 Speaker 4: part of that harmony, what's the most you know, what 521 00:30:18,996 --> 00:30:21,436 Speaker 4: is it in that in that in the feeling in 522 00:30:21,476 --> 00:30:23,756 Speaker 4: the music that we need to make sure we preserve 523 00:30:24,196 --> 00:30:29,596 Speaker 4: that's getting in the way of the emotional intention. So yeah, 524 00:30:30,556 --> 00:30:33,836 Speaker 4: learning how to do that more intimately and like on 525 00:30:33,876 --> 00:30:36,276 Speaker 4: a on a more like technical level is probably one 526 00:30:36,276 --> 00:30:39,116 Speaker 4: of the most enjoyable things. Working with you know close 527 00:30:39,276 --> 00:30:42,076 Speaker 4: like my boy, that's my He's not black, but that's 528 00:30:42,076 --> 00:30:45,236 Speaker 4: my nigga, Like you know, he's like he's that's my guy, right, 529 00:30:45,436 --> 00:30:48,156 Speaker 4: you know. And and I have I'm lucky to kind 530 00:30:48,156 --> 00:30:51,676 Speaker 4: of have really like brothers and best friends and like 531 00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:53,916 Speaker 4: spiritual warriors that I also get to work with. So 532 00:30:54,596 --> 00:30:56,556 Speaker 4: that was the I think that was the big learning 533 00:30:56,716 --> 00:30:59,396 Speaker 4: on this album. And there's some failings on this album 534 00:30:59,436 --> 00:31:02,636 Speaker 4: too that are that I kept that I that I'm like, yeah. 535 00:31:02,596 --> 00:31:06,916 Speaker 2: Like the focus on the negative, but a failing at 536 00:31:06,916 --> 00:31:07,316 Speaker 2: this point. 537 00:31:07,436 --> 00:31:09,996 Speaker 4: But that's what I love about this conversation and I 538 00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:12,676 Speaker 4: love watching watching episodes of this is like the insight 539 00:31:12,756 --> 00:31:14,836 Speaker 4: that you get that's like really for the nerds and 540 00:31:14,876 --> 00:31:18,356 Speaker 4: who care about this shit? So I can like talk 541 00:31:18,396 --> 00:31:23,156 Speaker 4: shit about my own shit, like on this album is 542 00:31:23,196 --> 00:31:27,476 Speaker 4: about the feeling of the music, but like it's it's 543 00:31:27,516 --> 00:31:29,916 Speaker 4: really like a shitty it's my own shitty mix on 544 00:31:29,956 --> 00:31:32,596 Speaker 4: the record, and like you can hear it, like I'm 545 00:31:32,636 --> 00:31:35,636 Speaker 4: like playing it in any room, Like yep, that shit 546 00:31:35,716 --> 00:31:38,796 Speaker 4: could have been better, but it still feels like the 547 00:31:38,796 --> 00:31:41,636 Speaker 4: feeling of what I meant is still there, like kind 548 00:31:41,636 --> 00:31:44,716 Speaker 4: of like there is an angst in it. But it's 549 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:48,196 Speaker 4: actually it's about the line. It's a line in the 550 00:31:48,236 --> 00:31:51,196 Speaker 4: first verse which is like I become a healer. I 551 00:31:51,236 --> 00:31:56,236 Speaker 4: forget myself and I become a healer, and that in 552 00:31:56,316 --> 00:32:04,436 Speaker 4: this mode, when I'm avoidant and leaning into my avoidant tendencies, 553 00:32:04,476 --> 00:32:09,916 Speaker 4: it often leads into wanting intimacy because it it allows 554 00:32:09,956 --> 00:32:13,276 Speaker 4: me to forget myself and my own shit. 555 00:32:14,156 --> 00:32:16,436 Speaker 2: But at least you're aware of it. I feel like 556 00:32:16,516 --> 00:32:19,276 Speaker 2: that's the first step. You're not just doing things blindly 557 00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:22,516 Speaker 2: in a pattern over. 558 00:32:22,316 --> 00:32:26,676 Speaker 4: And over till you die, you know, no, no, no, yeah. 559 00:32:26,716 --> 00:32:29,996 Speaker 2: Are there any other songs on the album or any 560 00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:33,716 Speaker 2: other moments in the studio, anything that was where maybe 561 00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:38,556 Speaker 2: you had some sort of creative awakening or something different 562 00:32:39,036 --> 00:32:41,036 Speaker 2: that you can take away from this project. And maybe 563 00:32:41,156 --> 00:32:41,876 Speaker 2: use in the future. 564 00:32:43,956 --> 00:32:44,156 Speaker 1: Hmm. 565 00:32:45,956 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 4: Though it play though is like is a special one, 566 00:32:49,756 --> 00:32:53,956 Speaker 4: but there's a lot of these are I mean sonically, 567 00:32:54,876 --> 00:32:58,396 Speaker 4: I learned a lot, and and also in terms of 568 00:32:58,436 --> 00:33:05,196 Speaker 4: like melding genre, yeah, and sort of wielding the sticky 569 00:33:05,276 --> 00:33:08,916 Speaker 4: parts or the parts of certain genres that just I 570 00:33:09,396 --> 00:33:11,956 Speaker 4: a very they are very much a part of my identity, 571 00:33:12,636 --> 00:33:15,796 Speaker 4: infusing them together to make something that feels unique to me. 572 00:33:16,916 --> 00:33:21,316 Speaker 4: This was a really fun experience that I think will 573 00:33:21,356 --> 00:33:25,676 Speaker 4: inform the next couple records because I'm only I'm planning 574 00:33:25,676 --> 00:33:31,356 Speaker 4: on leaning more into my heritage and more like the 575 00:33:31,556 --> 00:33:37,796 Speaker 4: rhythms and approaches on both sides, but that are more 576 00:33:37,836 --> 00:33:43,716 Speaker 4: like ethnic, you know, like my ethnic influences and leaning 577 00:33:43,756 --> 00:33:47,796 Speaker 4: into those even more than I did this time, and 578 00:33:47,876 --> 00:33:51,836 Speaker 4: marrying them even more with my cultural influences. I feel, 579 00:33:52,076 --> 00:33:54,916 Speaker 4: I feel that I'm I'm right at the cusp of 580 00:33:55,316 --> 00:34:00,316 Speaker 4: something that's really uniquely mine. Finally, and I think which 581 00:34:00,356 --> 00:34:04,996 Speaker 4: is exciting for me is like going harder, going harder, 582 00:34:05,116 --> 00:34:06,396 Speaker 4: and leading into them more. 583 00:34:07,556 --> 00:34:09,596 Speaker 1: One last break and will be back with Lee Rose 584 00:34:09,636 --> 00:34:10,156 Speaker 1: and Miguel. 585 00:34:14,836 --> 00:34:17,036 Speaker 2: I feel like You've always had such a strong point 586 00:34:17,076 --> 00:34:19,156 Speaker 2: of view and a lot of what you did early 587 00:34:19,276 --> 00:34:24,516 Speaker 2: on helped sort of birth this whole like all R 588 00:34:24,556 --> 00:34:27,876 Speaker 2: and B genre that is now just commonplace where it 589 00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:29,756 Speaker 2: didn't used to be commonplace at all. 590 00:34:30,596 --> 00:34:30,956 Speaker 3: Thank you. 591 00:34:31,276 --> 00:34:33,436 Speaker 2: But when you say that you found, you feel like 592 00:34:33,436 --> 00:34:36,836 Speaker 2: you finally found your voice. What does that sound like like? 593 00:34:36,916 --> 00:34:37,836 Speaker 2: How would you describe that? 594 00:34:38,556 --> 00:34:40,836 Speaker 4: I think the I think the rhythmic nature of that's 595 00:34:40,916 --> 00:34:43,636 Speaker 4: just a part of where my parents come from and 596 00:34:43,676 --> 00:34:47,436 Speaker 4: their experience and their parents come from. There is something 597 00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:49,836 Speaker 4: that is universal about that that. 598 00:34:49,876 --> 00:34:50,476 Speaker 3: I just have. 599 00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:54,116 Speaker 4: I feel we're just scratching the surface on on this record, 600 00:34:54,196 --> 00:34:57,196 Speaker 4: and it only happens in a couple places. I would 601 00:34:57,236 --> 00:35:00,476 Speaker 4: love to lean into that as well as that alternative. 602 00:35:00,596 --> 00:35:03,956 Speaker 4: I think the alternative, if you want to call it. 603 00:35:03,996 --> 00:35:06,956 Speaker 4: That influence in my music has always been there, and 604 00:35:06,996 --> 00:35:12,356 Speaker 4: so I want to experiment more with how I can 605 00:35:12,396 --> 00:35:16,876 Speaker 4: make those work together and then also make my you know, 606 00:35:17,236 --> 00:35:22,076 Speaker 4: my songwriting, make it more cohesive and sharpen my my 607 00:35:22,476 --> 00:35:26,156 Speaker 4: songwriting on the you know, on the Spanish side, I 608 00:35:26,196 --> 00:35:28,596 Speaker 4: think there's so much I'm excited to do that and 609 00:35:28,636 --> 00:35:33,476 Speaker 4: to work with incredible songwriters and learn from them because 610 00:35:33,476 --> 00:35:35,996 Speaker 4: there's a whole opportunity and unlocks the whole opportunity in 611 00:35:36,076 --> 00:35:39,756 Speaker 4: terms of connecting ideas and that don't work in English, 612 00:35:39,836 --> 00:35:43,276 Speaker 4: you know, so like the lateral thinking and the fun 613 00:35:43,316 --> 00:35:45,956 Speaker 4: part about songwriting is like how we're connecting one thing 614 00:35:45,996 --> 00:35:48,076 Speaker 4: to the next, not just by rhyme, but by like 615 00:35:49,316 --> 00:35:51,796 Speaker 4: the analogies, all of the all the literary tools and 616 00:35:51,836 --> 00:35:54,436 Speaker 4: how that can with that unlocks in terms of what 617 00:35:54,476 --> 00:35:55,116 Speaker 4: I can say. 618 00:35:55,516 --> 00:35:58,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, growing up, was there a lot of music in 619 00:35:58,076 --> 00:36:00,676 Speaker 2: the house, Like what was what role did music play 620 00:36:01,196 --> 00:36:02,036 Speaker 2: in your household? 621 00:36:02,916 --> 00:36:06,956 Speaker 4: Music for me was was an escape when my parents 622 00:36:06,956 --> 00:36:09,996 Speaker 4: were still together, so that only goes into age eight. 623 00:36:10,756 --> 00:36:15,796 Speaker 3: In the house was I mean hip hop, lots of funk. 624 00:36:15,916 --> 00:36:18,916 Speaker 4: My dad was kind of a yacht rock loved yacht rock, 625 00:36:19,436 --> 00:36:24,236 Speaker 4: loved classic rock. He was a big Eagles fan, big 626 00:36:25,356 --> 00:36:30,196 Speaker 4: Bowie fan, loved the Beatles Queen. I mean, he was 627 00:36:30,196 --> 00:36:34,356 Speaker 4: a big Santana fan. War was big for him, earth 628 00:36:34,396 --> 00:36:37,836 Speaker 4: Wind and Fire massive, I mean, and these are all 629 00:36:38,036 --> 00:36:40,676 Speaker 4: this is that era, you know, we're talking about great 630 00:36:40,756 --> 00:36:42,316 Speaker 4: everything from the sixties on. 631 00:36:43,116 --> 00:36:46,956 Speaker 3: He was like heavy into heavy, heavy into Yeah. 632 00:36:47,156 --> 00:36:48,796 Speaker 2: What about your mom what was she into? 633 00:36:49,516 --> 00:36:54,596 Speaker 4: Big soul fan, you know, anything motown, anything coming from 634 00:36:54,596 --> 00:36:58,076 Speaker 4: Detroit and anything that we would heart, you know, at 635 00:36:58,076 --> 00:37:00,436 Speaker 4: a function. You know that they would that they used 636 00:37:00,436 --> 00:37:03,916 Speaker 4: to dance to in high school because my parents were young, 637 00:37:04,516 --> 00:37:08,556 Speaker 4: so they had me at twenty three. I believe they're 638 00:37:08,596 --> 00:37:11,236 Speaker 4: the same age, twenty two, twenty three, and they met 639 00:37:11,236 --> 00:37:14,636 Speaker 4: in high school. So all the things that they were 640 00:37:14,876 --> 00:37:17,636 Speaker 4: they were enjoying in high school. Luther Vandros, you know 641 00:37:17,676 --> 00:37:20,956 Speaker 4: what I'm saying, All of these things that were in 642 00:37:20,996 --> 00:37:25,276 Speaker 4: the ether, Like I grew up in San Pedro an 643 00:37:25,436 --> 00:37:30,876 Speaker 4: art punk haven. I mean, all just the Ramones have 644 00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:34,516 Speaker 4: been through San Pedro. We've got we've got a lot 645 00:37:34,516 --> 00:37:38,636 Speaker 4: of great punk culture in San Pedro that I grew 646 00:37:38,676 --> 00:37:43,836 Speaker 4: up right around minute men, that's Pedro so and that's 647 00:37:43,876 --> 00:37:45,436 Speaker 4: in the eighties when I was born. 648 00:37:46,076 --> 00:37:47,876 Speaker 3: I was like really really. 649 00:37:47,636 --> 00:37:50,316 Speaker 4: Young, Like I'm talking about one to five going into 650 00:37:50,316 --> 00:37:53,756 Speaker 4: the nineties, like it had started to die down. But 651 00:37:53,836 --> 00:37:56,196 Speaker 4: the scene and the venues that were being played at 652 00:37:56,236 --> 00:37:59,796 Speaker 4: Firehouse we're talking about, these are like in within blocks 653 00:37:59,796 --> 00:38:02,076 Speaker 4: of my of where I grew up, you know, Like 654 00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:04,356 Speaker 4: I'm on Third and Center and we're talking about downtown 655 00:38:04,436 --> 00:38:08,436 Speaker 4: San Pedro is like three blocks away, and this is 656 00:38:08,516 --> 00:38:10,916 Speaker 4: like kind of like an epicenter of where a lot 657 00:38:10,956 --> 00:38:15,876 Speaker 4: of that energy is like really being expressed. 658 00:38:16,636 --> 00:38:17,836 Speaker 3: And I grew so I grew. 659 00:38:17,716 --> 00:38:19,396 Speaker 4: Up around punks, I grew up around of course, I 660 00:38:19,396 --> 00:38:23,756 Speaker 4: grew up around you know, cholos and gangsters, and so 661 00:38:24,036 --> 00:38:25,076 Speaker 4: I got a lot of all of that. 662 00:38:25,476 --> 00:38:29,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, are you the kind of artist who has hundreds 663 00:38:30,076 --> 00:38:34,516 Speaker 2: of songs just like done on hand if you need 664 00:38:34,596 --> 00:38:37,356 Speaker 2: them or when you start a new project? Are you 665 00:38:37,476 --> 00:38:40,076 Speaker 2: very much like, all right, we got twelve, we got fourteen, 666 00:38:40,116 --> 00:38:41,356 Speaker 2: We're done, move on. 667 00:38:42,316 --> 00:38:45,356 Speaker 3: I wasn't. Before I took eight years to finish the album. 668 00:38:46,316 --> 00:38:46,596 Speaker 2: I was. 669 00:38:47,036 --> 00:38:49,796 Speaker 3: I was very much like, no, we want to create 670 00:38:49,836 --> 00:38:50,436 Speaker 3: in the moment. 671 00:38:51,316 --> 00:38:55,076 Speaker 4: This is what this is right here. I wouldn't say 672 00:38:55,076 --> 00:38:57,356 Speaker 4: I have hundreds of songs, but I definitely have more. 673 00:38:58,596 --> 00:39:00,596 Speaker 4: I have more songs that need to be cut and 674 00:39:00,676 --> 00:39:03,396 Speaker 4: never see the light of day or ever need to 675 00:39:03,436 --> 00:39:08,956 Speaker 4: be heard right anyone then I usually would, But I 676 00:39:09,276 --> 00:39:11,476 Speaker 4: also say there's a lot of songs that I still 677 00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:15,116 Speaker 4: want to use for you know, future albums or the 678 00:39:15,196 --> 00:39:18,476 Speaker 4: next album. Would I would prefer to remake for the 679 00:39:18,516 --> 00:39:22,276 Speaker 4: music to feel very current, And yeah, you know for me. 680 00:39:23,396 --> 00:39:25,876 Speaker 2: And you always have struck me as a person who 681 00:39:26,916 --> 00:39:31,356 Speaker 2: is creative first, meaning the most important thing for you 682 00:39:31,476 --> 00:39:35,236 Speaker 2: is just to make things and how people categorize or 683 00:39:35,236 --> 00:39:37,596 Speaker 2: maybe even interpret those things that come. 684 00:39:37,676 --> 00:39:38,036 Speaker 3: Second. 685 00:39:38,636 --> 00:39:40,236 Speaker 2: Does that sound accurate? 686 00:39:40,796 --> 00:39:44,716 Speaker 4: Super accurate? I think breaking free of the expectation is 687 00:39:44,756 --> 00:39:49,436 Speaker 4: a big part of what I've needed to I needed 688 00:39:49,476 --> 00:39:53,756 Speaker 4: to kind of step away and re calibrate on because 689 00:39:53,756 --> 00:39:57,516 Speaker 4: in the beginning, I think we start with all the 690 00:39:57,556 --> 00:40:03,316 Speaker 4: excitement and possibility, and we mimic with no judgment. We 691 00:40:03,476 --> 00:40:07,956 Speaker 4: imitate with a sense of play and excitement of what 692 00:40:08,476 --> 00:40:11,876 Speaker 4: is possible to program our bodies to do, you know, 693 00:40:12,516 --> 00:40:17,956 Speaker 4: And there's so much honesty and that jumping off place 694 00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:24,756 Speaker 4: and allowing oneself to just explore and to be excited 695 00:40:24,796 --> 00:40:26,916 Speaker 4: by what comes out, even if it's shit, you know 696 00:40:26,956 --> 00:40:30,956 Speaker 4: what I mean, Because I've got more terrible things in 697 00:40:30,996 --> 00:40:33,916 Speaker 4: the vault. That's just you know, it's even funny to 698 00:40:33,956 --> 00:40:36,076 Speaker 4: go listen and go it's pretty funny, Like I see 699 00:40:36,076 --> 00:40:38,476 Speaker 4: what I was trying to do there, and to hear 700 00:40:38,516 --> 00:40:42,716 Speaker 4: the play in it, the exploration, the things that are 701 00:40:42,756 --> 00:40:45,996 Speaker 4: wrong but that are right, the things that hit a 702 00:40:46,076 --> 00:40:50,956 Speaker 4: chord within you know when you listen to it, and 703 00:40:50,956 --> 00:40:57,116 Speaker 4: the things that are just trash, and you know to 704 00:40:57,516 --> 00:41:00,076 Speaker 4: give it, to give it that kind of energy is 705 00:41:00,836 --> 00:41:04,316 Speaker 4: making that right change in the right place, or everybody 706 00:41:04,356 --> 00:41:08,636 Speaker 4: on the same page, catching up, feeling to move into 707 00:41:08,676 --> 00:41:12,556 Speaker 4: another phrase or whatever that thing is. When you when 708 00:41:12,596 --> 00:41:16,956 Speaker 4: you're able to do that and it garner attention, well 709 00:41:16,996 --> 00:41:20,876 Speaker 4: then it's easy to lose sight of the whole, the thing, 710 00:41:20,956 --> 00:41:23,596 Speaker 4: the glue, the purpose in it in the first place. 711 00:41:24,076 --> 00:41:28,676 Speaker 4: And I think I wasn't doing enough calibrating along the way. 712 00:41:28,916 --> 00:41:30,476 Speaker 3: You know, do you. 713 00:41:30,556 --> 00:41:34,796 Speaker 2: Have any musical mentors or people in the business or 714 00:41:34,796 --> 00:41:37,916 Speaker 2: in your position or in a similar position that you 715 00:41:37,956 --> 00:41:40,436 Speaker 2: can talk to honestly and be like, look, I'm feeling 716 00:41:40,596 --> 00:41:44,076 Speaker 2: lost right now, I need help. Is there anybody who 717 00:41:44,116 --> 00:41:45,516 Speaker 2: you can go to as a guide. 718 00:41:47,276 --> 00:41:51,596 Speaker 4: Throughout my career, I've mentioned Mark Mark Pitts as kind 719 00:41:51,636 --> 00:41:54,756 Speaker 4: of one of those ones who believed early and had 720 00:41:55,556 --> 00:42:00,476 Speaker 4: he had the leverage and the reputation to convince a 721 00:42:00,516 --> 00:42:05,396 Speaker 4: lot of people who otherwise would have wrote me off, 722 00:42:06,076 --> 00:42:09,516 Speaker 4: cut their losses and moved on, so to speak, when 723 00:42:09,556 --> 00:42:14,196 Speaker 4: it wasn't all profitable, you know, when it was looking 724 00:42:14,356 --> 00:42:19,116 Speaker 4: like there wasn't a way forward. That was someone that 725 00:42:19,156 --> 00:42:24,196 Speaker 4: I could always call on and trust to give. Not 726 00:42:24,436 --> 00:42:27,956 Speaker 4: business insight alone, I think more human insight, and so 727 00:42:27,996 --> 00:42:30,556 Speaker 4: he was someone that I could always call on, but 728 00:42:30,636 --> 00:42:33,476 Speaker 4: through life, through my life, I think it'll always be 729 00:42:33,516 --> 00:42:38,396 Speaker 4: my family. I got lucky and I have an incredible, 730 00:42:38,436 --> 00:42:44,836 Speaker 4: incredible mother and father who have been, you know, truly 731 00:42:44,996 --> 00:42:48,876 Speaker 4: truly upfront about what they do and do not know, 732 00:42:49,876 --> 00:42:51,636 Speaker 4: even when I was, you know, too young enough to 733 00:42:51,676 --> 00:42:55,076 Speaker 4: care about it. They've always been there to kind of Mike, 734 00:42:56,156 --> 00:42:58,436 Speaker 4: you know, that's not right, Mike, you know, and give 735 00:42:58,476 --> 00:43:01,876 Speaker 4: me the thing that I need to hear that I 736 00:43:01,916 --> 00:43:06,636 Speaker 4: can trust is coming from a really pure place, you know. 737 00:43:06,756 --> 00:43:09,396 Speaker 4: So I got lucky, and that's in fact. You know, 738 00:43:09,436 --> 00:43:12,836 Speaker 4: my brother is one of my best friends, nonchalant, He's 739 00:43:12,836 --> 00:43:16,116 Speaker 4: on this album. And I've gotten lucky to have just 740 00:43:16,156 --> 00:43:19,836 Speaker 4: great people along the way, including my you know, my team. 741 00:43:20,276 --> 00:43:23,156 Speaker 4: Drew has been with me for years. Anyone who knows 742 00:43:23,156 --> 00:43:25,156 Speaker 4: me and has been we've done business. 743 00:43:24,916 --> 00:43:28,156 Speaker 3: With knows Drew. That's my guy. He's my right hand. 744 00:43:28,596 --> 00:43:30,756 Speaker 4: He's been with me since I since my first real 745 00:43:31,436 --> 00:43:34,196 Speaker 4: check performing outside of Los Angeles. You know, he literally 746 00:43:34,276 --> 00:43:37,276 Speaker 4: was at my very first show way up in Connecticut. 747 00:43:37,396 --> 00:43:38,436 Speaker 2: Oh, in Connecticut. 748 00:43:38,876 --> 00:43:42,156 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was in Connecticut, a thousand dollars show to 749 00:43:42,276 --> 00:43:45,156 Speaker 4: perform all I want is you at a club, you know, 750 00:43:45,196 --> 00:43:47,596 Speaker 4: and it's like this, this is like someone who's been 751 00:43:47,636 --> 00:43:50,076 Speaker 4: with me for you know, a decade plus more than 752 00:43:50,156 --> 00:43:54,556 Speaker 4: you know, so we're talking about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years. Yeah, 753 00:43:54,596 --> 00:43:56,756 Speaker 4: I've been lucky to have people that I can trust, 754 00:43:56,796 --> 00:43:59,796 Speaker 4: you know, but I've also yeah that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, 755 00:44:00,596 --> 00:44:02,236 Speaker 4: I've gotten lucky in that way. So those are the 756 00:44:02,276 --> 00:44:04,236 Speaker 4: people that I would I could lean on to kind 757 00:44:04,276 --> 00:44:08,156 Speaker 4: of be like, hey man, you swerve it, you swerve 758 00:44:08,196 --> 00:44:10,396 Speaker 4: it hard right now. 759 00:44:11,676 --> 00:44:14,396 Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing I wanted to ask you before we go, 760 00:44:15,396 --> 00:44:18,196 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about the visuals for Chaos 761 00:44:18,196 --> 00:44:22,036 Speaker 2: for the title track, So cool, m h, what are 762 00:44:22,036 --> 00:44:24,876 Speaker 2: you wearing? And where did all that come from? 763 00:44:25,036 --> 00:44:29,596 Speaker 4: Banger as I As I kind of mentioned, like the 764 00:44:30,156 --> 00:44:32,156 Speaker 4: themes of the album or the theme of the album 765 00:44:32,276 --> 00:44:35,316 Speaker 4: is really centered around, you know, the purpose of chaos 766 00:44:35,556 --> 00:44:38,276 Speaker 4: in my life and what I'm learning because of it 767 00:44:38,716 --> 00:44:42,836 Speaker 4: and what I need to make peace with and in 768 00:44:43,996 --> 00:44:48,756 Speaker 4: just kind of doing reading and some research on where 769 00:44:48,796 --> 00:44:49,556 Speaker 4: I come from. 770 00:44:50,436 --> 00:44:51,156 Speaker 3: My family is. 771 00:44:52,756 --> 00:44:56,156 Speaker 4: From a region in Mexico that a tribe is from, 772 00:44:56,316 --> 00:45:00,396 Speaker 4: so by blood, I have lineage to a tribe called 773 00:45:00,436 --> 00:45:02,396 Speaker 4: the Booty patcha. I think it's Booty Patch. I might 774 00:45:02,436 --> 00:45:06,156 Speaker 4: be killing the name Booty Pecha. But the only tribe 775 00:45:06,676 --> 00:45:08,836 Speaker 4: in the region to not be conquered by the Aztec. 776 00:45:09,236 --> 00:45:12,236 Speaker 4: They're like valley, They're like warriors, you know, and they 777 00:45:12,236 --> 00:45:16,516 Speaker 4: were never conquered. So like kind of doing deep dives 778 00:45:16,556 --> 00:45:19,316 Speaker 4: into like my heritage where my family is from, and 779 00:45:20,156 --> 00:45:23,556 Speaker 4: it kind of led me to find a celebration in 780 00:45:23,636 --> 00:45:27,316 Speaker 4: Mexico called Son of the Diablos, which is the dance 781 00:45:27,356 --> 00:45:30,596 Speaker 4: of the of the devils. And contrary to what the set, 782 00:45:30,636 --> 00:45:35,236 Speaker 4: what the title suggests, it's actually a celebration, a commemoration 783 00:45:35,356 --> 00:45:39,996 Speaker 4: of slaves in Mexico, African slaves and Mexican slaves freeing 784 00:45:40,036 --> 00:45:41,356 Speaker 4: themselves from their masters. 785 00:45:41,956 --> 00:45:42,356 Speaker 2: Wow. 786 00:45:42,516 --> 00:45:47,836 Speaker 4: And the visuals are an homage to this idea that 787 00:45:48,556 --> 00:45:54,316 Speaker 4: I'm making peace with. I'm addressing and freeing myself in 788 00:45:54,356 --> 00:45:55,756 Speaker 4: some ways from my own demons. 789 00:45:56,196 --> 00:45:58,556 Speaker 2: How did it feel to put the clothes on? I'm 790 00:45:58,956 --> 00:46:00,956 Speaker 2: powerful in itself just wearing the clothes. 791 00:46:01,716 --> 00:46:04,156 Speaker 4: It's hot as fuck because it's so many layers. That 792 00:46:04,196 --> 00:46:07,236 Speaker 4: shit is just hot. I'm talking about like a scarf 793 00:46:07,356 --> 00:46:10,076 Speaker 4: on the head and then another scarfs around your neck 794 00:46:10,116 --> 00:46:17,156 Speaker 4: and you gotta chivas and yes you got boots, huh, like. 795 00:46:17,156 --> 00:46:20,556 Speaker 3: The chaps, right, yeah, yeah, that's a that's the chaps 796 00:46:20,556 --> 00:46:20,916 Speaker 3: that they wear. 797 00:46:21,396 --> 00:46:22,316 Speaker 2: Chaps, but like fur. 798 00:46:22,516 --> 00:46:26,476 Speaker 4: Yeah it's goat here. Yeah yeah it looks sick, but 799 00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:30,476 Speaker 4: it does feel. It does give you a whole other feeling. 800 00:46:31,156 --> 00:46:34,356 Speaker 4: And I and I want to I wanted to make 801 00:46:34,356 --> 00:46:37,636 Speaker 4: sure that we were paying homage, but not like ripping it, 802 00:46:38,076 --> 00:46:40,716 Speaker 4: you know, and it just being like a full yank. 803 00:46:41,476 --> 00:46:47,116 Speaker 4: So the key elements that I feel really resonated with me. 804 00:46:47,636 --> 00:46:49,996 Speaker 3: And where the chivaras and. 805 00:46:50,436 --> 00:46:54,036 Speaker 4: The garb appear, I think, because what that what that 806 00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:57,276 Speaker 4: actually is for, is like to protect the face from 807 00:46:57,276 --> 00:47:00,916 Speaker 4: the mask. And the artisans that make these masks, there's 808 00:47:00,916 --> 00:47:03,276 Speaker 4: only a handful that are like known to be like them. 809 00:47:03,596 --> 00:47:06,636 Speaker 4: It's like like a sort like a swordsmith. If you're 810 00:47:06,676 --> 00:47:10,756 Speaker 4: a samurai, you want this kind of lathe. So in 811 00:47:10,796 --> 00:47:15,196 Speaker 4: the same way, the makers of the garbs, they're artisans 812 00:47:15,196 --> 00:47:18,236 Speaker 4: that are like these are the guys you go to. 813 00:47:18,436 --> 00:47:22,436 Speaker 4: And the masks are pretty heavy. These shits are like 814 00:47:22,516 --> 00:47:25,436 Speaker 4: wooden masks, and then they've got you know, they're all 815 00:47:25,556 --> 00:47:28,276 Speaker 4: very different and they're ornate and in different ways. 816 00:47:28,876 --> 00:47:29,196 Speaker 3: But them. 817 00:47:29,276 --> 00:47:32,396 Speaker 4: Shits is heavy and when you put it on, if 818 00:47:32,396 --> 00:47:34,836 Speaker 4: you don't have anything to protect your head, it's gonna 819 00:47:34,876 --> 00:47:36,516 Speaker 4: like it's gonna hurt you. 820 00:47:37,916 --> 00:47:38,516 Speaker 3: The sheer weight. 821 00:47:38,596 --> 00:47:42,556 Speaker 4: And then the movement with it on also, it moves 822 00:47:42,596 --> 00:47:45,156 Speaker 4: around and shit. So the garb is kind of like 823 00:47:45,716 --> 00:47:49,356 Speaker 4: in anti anticipation of putting on the mask. 824 00:47:50,076 --> 00:47:52,836 Speaker 2: But that's another way to process pain, you know, exager 825 00:47:53,276 --> 00:47:54,436 Speaker 2: pain in a different way. 826 00:47:54,436 --> 00:47:56,876 Speaker 4: Which is the reason why you won't really see me, 827 00:47:56,956 --> 00:47:59,476 Speaker 4: because I think the purpose of this album and the 828 00:47:59,996 --> 00:48:04,076 Speaker 4: proposition is that I'm making peace with my demon, so 829 00:48:04,116 --> 00:48:05,916 Speaker 4: I don't have to wear a mask, you know, I'm 830 00:48:05,916 --> 00:48:08,756 Speaker 4: freeing myself of them. 831 00:48:09,556 --> 00:48:12,276 Speaker 3: Yeah, all I love all considered. 832 00:48:12,476 --> 00:48:15,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much Michael for talking about 833 00:48:15,116 --> 00:48:18,956 Speaker 2: this album and for making the album. Man, thank you, 834 00:48:19,236 --> 00:48:21,396 Speaker 2: best of luck. I can't wait to see what comes next. 835 00:48:21,636 --> 00:48:25,356 Speaker 4: Yeah, Thanksley, appreciate your time. Great to hang and hopefully 836 00:48:25,396 --> 00:48:26,076 Speaker 4: you see you again soon. 837 00:48:28,996 --> 00:48:30,836 Speaker 1: In an episode description, you'll find a link to a 838 00:48:30,876 --> 00:48:33,476 Speaker 1: playlist of our favorite Miguel tracks. Be sure to check 839 00:48:33,516 --> 00:48:36,436 Speaker 1: out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see 840 00:48:36,476 --> 00:48:39,196 Speaker 1: all of our video and others, and be sure to 841 00:48:39,236 --> 00:48:42,036 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod You 842 00:48:42,076 --> 00:48:45,116 Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record 843 00:48:45,196 --> 00:48:47,356 Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing and 844 00:48:47,356 --> 00:48:50,316 Speaker 1: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is 845 00:48:50,356 --> 00:48:54,436 Speaker 1: Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If 846 00:48:54,436 --> 00:48:57,316 Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing 847 00:48:57,356 --> 00:49:00,476 Speaker 1: to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that 848 00:49:00,516 --> 00:49:03,516 Speaker 1: offers bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety 849 00:49:03,556 --> 00:49:06,876 Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, 850 00:49:07,396 --> 00:49:09,636 Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, 851 00:49:09,676 --> 00:49:12,036 Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast. Aff Our theme music 852 00:49:12,036 --> 00:49:19,276 Speaker 1: expect Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h