WEBVTT - Danny Meyer: Recipes for Success 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:09.440 Hi everyone. Well it's just me today. I'm sorry all 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.319 you Brian Goldsmith fans, but he'll be back soon, so 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.960 don't worry. Meanwhile, here's what's cooking. Literally, I just wrapped 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.560 up an interview with Danny Meyer, who I love and 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.200 honestly I have a little bit of a crush on him. 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.560 He's a bit of a restaurant and hospitality icon. Sure 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.639 he founded shake Shack, the global burger empire, but he 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.440 actually made his name in fine dining many years before that. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.559 He opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, one of 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:43.199 my favorites back when he was just so Danny and 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.959 I actually decided to meet at the new Union Square Cafe. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.160 When I got there, the place was jam packed full 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:56.160 of diners enjoying late lunches, a few cocktails, Hey it's 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:01.680 five o'clock somewhere, maybe a bit of espresso, all served 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.959 on crisp white table cloths. There were even gingerbread houses 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.640 by the entrance. We headed upstairs, then to a private 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.240 dining room for our interview, and yes, a little taglia telly, 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.160 is that how you say it? Our conversation covered a 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.800 lot of ground, including Danny's famous approach to hospitality, why 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.080 he's banned tipping at some of his restaurants, and how 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:32.160 he gave birth to this new version of Union Square Cafe. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.120 We called this our thirty year old startup because the 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.160 original Union Square Cafe had to close after three years 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.800 because we couldn't re up our lease in the original 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.240 spot on Street and we were just incredibly lucky to 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.400 find a space within a stone's throw of Union Square 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.320 and we reopened it a year ago. And this is 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.559 our birthday, and well, happy birthday, Union Square. And let's 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.000 talk of out the restaurant business, because you know so 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:06.280 many restaurants open and closed, Danny, and so many people 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.399 want to do this for a living, and you've done 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.280 it so successfully. Tell me what the key is to 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.720 a fantastic restaurant that stands the test of time. I'm 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.680 not trying to be falsely humble, but if I really 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.639 knew the answer to that, we would have opened a 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.120 whole lot more restaurants over the course of thirty plus years. Well, 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.800 you've opened a lot, we have. And if if you 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.239 take out shake Shack, which will open its in the 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.720 United States this weekend in my hometown of St. Louis, 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.080 which I'm excited about the fine dining, full service restaurants 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.960 we have about We have about ten at this point, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.160 so that's that's a lot. It's about one every three years, 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.280 but especially when you consider that I didn't open a 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.320 second one Grammercy tavern until ten years, so it took 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.200 ten years to open a second restaurant. This year alone, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.160 we've opened five new restaurants. So the learning curve was 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.840 was steep and slow. And can we just interrupt this 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.560 podcast because somebody just brought in a little bowl of 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.680 pasta for me and I haven't eaten lunch, so I'm 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.519 very excited. I'm not going to be here at a 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.080 Danny Meyer restaurant. No, I'm not gonna have any wine, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.200 thanks Danny. Danny just did the wine sign. I think 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.720 that I want to kind of keep my wits about 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.799 me and not get too woozy while we're going to 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.200 hear a lot of happy clanging and slurping as tell 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.640 me what I'm eating. Because listeners, I wish you all 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.600 could smell through your smartphones because or however you're listening 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:40.360 to with amazing mushrooms and it's it's it's kind of 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.280 a good illustration of what Union Square cafe is which 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.400 is nothing fancy or formal. And there's a great Italian 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.040 word which we first learned about from a hero of mine, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.200 Seth Godin, and he coined this, or he coined this 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.720 about Union Square Cafe. The Italian terms spritsa and spreads 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.400 a tora was a term used to describe a painting 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.160 style in the fiftundreds in Italy, and what it meant 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.320 was that the technique that it took to make those 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.480 paintings came across as being quite simple, and yet it 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.960 was actually pretty hard to put together. And he he 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.960 uses the word to describe Union Square Cafe as well 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.600 as what you're eating right now, the food spreta. There 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.320 are so many restaurants and businesses that do the opposite, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.320 where they make a big scene, like, look at all 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.560 the effort we put into this thing, and then you 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.280 eat it and you go, I'd rather just have had 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.160 a good bowl apasta somewhere. And so what he's saying 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.680 with sprits a tour is what if you could make 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.360 something that comes across as being simple, but it's actually 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.720 just really really satisfying. That's what we try to do here. Well, 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.200 I have to say it's working for me, Danny. And 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.760 what is it? What's the word again, Spreta, This is 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.640 really Sprea baby and enjoy. I also want to say 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.039 that that we got so into thinking about that when 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.280 we were reopening Union Square Cafe, that I took our 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.560 leaders on a trip to all the places in Italy 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.880 that had first inspired me when I was in my twenties. 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.480 And we did that a little over a year ago, 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.920 and we decided that we're going to bake our own 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.880 bread here, which we weren't able to do with the 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.120 first one, and we call our house bread. We call 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.080 it spreads, and you're going to taste some of that today. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.479 I'm excited to do that. Well, this is delicious, and 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.280 I don't want to talk with my mouthful, but I'm 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.440 going to have to. You know, you talk about Italy, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.039 and I know you spent a year studying abroad. You 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.120 went to Trinity, the alma mater. My husband, John Mulner, 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:44.159 go Trinity Tigers right now, bantoms Bantom's John Muhlner, But 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.479 make sure not sorry. My daughter went to Trinity High 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.719 School and I think they're the Tigers. But anyway, you 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.760 spent your junior year in Rome, and is that where 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.640 you first became inspired to really become a restaurant tour 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.000 I know your dad inspired you as well, and we'll 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.960 talk about him and a moment, But what did the 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.760 Rome experience mean to you and do for you? I 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.240 had spent time in Rome working for my dad as 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.839 a tour guide when I was twenty and I was 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.679 responsible for picking up the group tours at the airport 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.200 in the morning. They'd be all cranky and jet lagged, 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:24.080 and I found that I'd be with these people for 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.320 four to six days, depending on what the tour was, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.520 And I had this crazy neurotic wiring where it mattered 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.400 to me deeply to take the crankiest person from day 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.320 one and turn them into the happiest person by the 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.800 end of the trip. So all the tour itinerary said today, 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.000 we're going to go to the Cameo factory. Tomorrow we're 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.240 going to go to the So and So Museum, and 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.960 I just kept taking the tours to my favorite trotterias 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:56.200 around town, factories, well, the cameo factories. It's actually basically 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.880 it's an opportunity for guys to get kickbacks from the 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.400 cameo factory while you get this thing that you're going 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.200 to put in a drawer and forget about for the 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:08.560 next rest of your life. That Danny, So I decided, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.600 if it's okay for guides to be getting commissions, why 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:13.880 not do it at Trotaria. So I was getting paid 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:18.600 a thousand lira per head of every tour guest that 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.480 I would bring into these restaurants, and it was completely legal. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.000 Um what was not legal was these people would come 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.560 home and they would rave about the trip, and my 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.880 dad's office would say, well, what did you love about it? 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.480 And nothing they were raving about was on the itinerary 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.640 he had sold them. So I almost lost my job. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.400 That's so funny. Anyway, after that, I went back studied 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.680 Italian at Trinity College. Loved it, and Trinity has a 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.800 campus in Rome, and we convinced our political science professor 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.880 to do a special international politics class at Trinity, and 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.760 so we studied Italian politics, study European politics. Yes we 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.320 studied Italian and yes I studied Trotarias. Why did you 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.560 go into policy, s Danny, if you were there studying 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.720 international Well after I graduated from Trinity, I wanted to 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.360 be either you when I grew up um, and I 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.840 went to go look at journalism schools. I actually got 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.760 a job at the NBC affiliate in Chicago right out 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.440 of college, really working as a production assistant for the 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.640 Sunday Morning Politics show. And on the very day I 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.520 got offered that job, I was offered a job as 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.400 Cook County field coordinator for John Anderson's nineteen eight campaign, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.880 John Anderson, who just passed to day and Uh. I 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.800 decided I should take that job because it was a 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:40.000 much loftier experience than I ever would have gotten with 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.080 a Republican or Democratic candidate, because he had, you know, 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.240 as an independent presidential candidate, he had absolutely no infrastructure whatsoever. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.880 So I got an amazing education. And then I was 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.680 either going to go to law school or journalism school, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.520 but you decided to go to neither. I decided to 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.319 go to neither and start making poster for a living. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.319 That's so funny, And so why that sudden turned back 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.640 into or yeah, I guess to your roots of loving 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.960 Trotarias or Tritorius. How do you say that, Trotia? Why 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.760 did you decide to go back into food? I'm glad 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.720 you did, by because I'm really enjoying this pasta seconds. No, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.040 thank you, I'm good. I'm good, But you don't mind 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.440 if I continue? Do you know? I'd be offended if 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.160 you didn't. But it's not really for me having gone 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:31.040 back to those roots, because you have to understand we're talking. Um. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.160 I moved to New York in nineteen eighty. I my 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.520 first night here was the night John Lennon was shot 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.440 at the end of nineteen eighty. So not only was 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.480 the city of very different city kind of a scary 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:49.000 time here, but restaurants were not really an accepted career 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.400 choice for someone with a liberal arts education. It just 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.560 was nothing that had ever occurred to me that, in 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.200 addition to cooking for my friends and for myself at home, 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.520 that I should actually even consider for a minute going 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.600 into this business. But the word foodie haven't been invented yet, 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.480 I haven't The word foodie completely didn't exist. But I 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.240 would also say that the notion of a valid entrepreneurial 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.280 career choice was just completely off the table at that point. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.920 In fact, I was embarrassed and afraid and ashamed to 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.400 tell my family that I might do this. Really a 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.080 whole lot of other things I could have told him 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.160 that they would have accepted a lot more quickly than this. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.880 I was going to say, but who has the last lap? Now? 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.400 I mean, I mean, obviously you've just been extraordinarily successful, 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.240 and I want to talk about sort of what you've 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.800 learned in the restaurant business. You were twenty seven years old. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.240 I should mention when you started Union Square Cafe in 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:49.040 you were so young it where did you have to 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.120 think I can do this well? One of the I 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.080 think one of the great hallmarks of an entrepreneur, and 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.200 you either are or your not. It's not a good 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.000 thing to be an entrepreneur. It's not a bad thing 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.240 not to be one. But I think entrepreneurs are they're upsided, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.240 meaning that they're just incapable of seeing the downside. My 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.160 eyes just couldn't see how this could fail. I knew. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.439 And the other thing is is that if it had failed, 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.120 who would have cared? No one had heard of me, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.320 so in a weird way, the first time you do 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.079 something as an entrepreneur, you only see possibility. I wasn't 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:25.120 even thinking economically about this. I just knew it was 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.800 going to work, and if it didn't, it would have 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:32.400 been okay. With each subsequent restaurant. After that, you've got 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.960 a lot more to lose because now you've got a 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.560 brand you have to think about, got employees you got 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.400 to care about. I should mention before you opened Union 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.520 Square Cafe, you worked at Pesca and you were an 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.760 assistant manager. I was the assistant lunch manager. And that's 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.280 where you met your lovely wife, Audrey, who was a 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.400 waitress there. So Audrey was an actress, um, which she 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.559 still is. As a matter of fact, she just text 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.800 me saying she got a little role on Billions, which 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:02.080 she's very excited about. That's excited. So UM, Audrey and 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.800 I met on my very very first day of work. Um. 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.640 By the way, my interview at Pesca consisted of the 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.160 owner looking me up and down for six seconds and 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.000 saying you'll do that was my job interview. So on 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:16.880 my very first day of work, I'm running down the 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.960 steps to the reservation office because that was my first job, 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.800 to take lunch reservations, and this beautiful woman was running 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.720 up the stairs with a tray of butters that she 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:31.240 had prepared for lunch, and we literally locked eyes on 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:37.520 the stairway. It was like, you know, for about three seconds, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.600 she continued up. I continued down. I came home at 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.840 night and I said, I'm gonna like this job. The 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.960 next day she was gone, and I didn't even know 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.040 how to ask, like I started looking at I didn't 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.640 want to what happened to the lady with the butter right, 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.480 So I started looking at the schedules surreptitiously. She's not 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.719 on the schedule for the following week, or for the 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.880 week after, or for the week after. I finally learned 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.280 as I got to know people that she had gotten 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.280 a role in Guys and Dolls. I think it was 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.720 in Indiana, if I'm not mistaken. And so she was gone. 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:18.120 That was it. About five months later, I'm answering the 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.040 telephones and there's Audrey and calling to see if she 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.880 can get back on the schedule, and I said, yeah, 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.400 I can probably help arrange that for you. So we 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:33.800 kind of flirted for another five months after that. She 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.360 had a boyfriend I learned about that. We finally had 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.120 our first date on my last night of work before 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.800 I was going off to Italy and Francigo Cook and 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.000 we've been married now for it. We'll have our thirtieth 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.679 anniversary this year. That's so great four kids, four kids? Yeah, wow, 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.760 and what's what's what do you think the secret to 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.560 being having a good marriage for that many years is Danny? 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.079 Because you know you're busy. I'm sure that it's hard 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.840 with your schedule, her schedule. I'm sure you meet a 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.760 lot of beautiful, glamorous people. I'm sure Autrey does too, 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.760 by the way, in her line of work, kissing people 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.480 on stage and two of her last place that's were 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.520 you like, wait a minute, why I was more than that. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.080 In fact, once I went with my son and he 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.120 like buried his head into my under arm during the scene. 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:33.840 What kind of kissed was it? By the way, I 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.600 was just handed another bowl of pasta. Do you all 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.520 think I'm running a marathon or something that I'm part loading? 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.720 That one? You definitely want to try that. That spreads 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.720 a tour right there? That is Explain this. Explain this? 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.480 What does it look like? It looks like spaghetti with 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.720 Marinara sauce. That's it? Can you hear me? And spinning 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.720 my spaghetti on my fork? Everyone like we have these 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.160 sound effects. I remember the old days on the Today Show. 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.760 You would take a of this and then the camera 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.040 would focus in and you go, Oh my god, that's 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.640 so good. You know, I used to hate when people 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.840 would show me eating. This is the beauty of doing 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:16.000 a podcast. Mm hmmm mmmmmmmm. That's delicious. I'm telling you all. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.520 She's smiling right now. I'm really really good. I don't 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.200 think I'm gonna eat the whole bowl. I should share 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.680 with my producer Gianna. It's only right, right. But you're asking, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.880 what do I think the secret is? I I don't know. 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.400 I saw a great interview recently with a couple that 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.200 have been married sixty years, twice as long as Audrey 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.880 and I have been married, and the uh, the wife 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.280 had the best answer to that question, and I can't 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.280 beat it. She said. The secrets very simple. I just 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.080 always let him have my way. That's funny, and I 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.200 pretty much always let Audrey have her way. Now we understand, 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.280 there's there's a great moment in our marriage that was 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.760 not fun at the time, but it was a good one. 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.880 Audrey's got a remarkable design sense, just really good taste, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.200 and we had just renovated a new apartment. This is 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.920 probably fifteen years ago or sixteen years ago. I made 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.240 the mistake of coming home from the restaurant one night, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.840 and Audrey had bought these new soap dishes for our 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.400 beautiful new bathroom. And I made a face at the 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.480 soap dish and I said, are those are soap dishes? 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.680 And Audrey just looked at me with eyes that could kill, 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.360 and she said, may I just remind you that this 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.440 is not one of your restaurants, and I'm not one 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.520 of your employees. And I feel like I learned a 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.440 really important division of labor at that point, which is 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.400 that there's a lot to do at home. It's really 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.360 hard work. Um, she's an incredible mom. She's incredible at, 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.040 you know, balancing an acting career and keeping things moving 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.920 in the house, which I couldn't do. I just don't 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.520 know how to do that. So a big part of 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.040 it is stay away from the stuff in eight years 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.840 and taken care bit. And I think women, probably and 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.159 some men who are listening to this probably really appreciate 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.680 your saying that, because I think oftentimes that kind of work, 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.360 which is really being CEO of a household, is really 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.280 undervalued and you don't get a day off. That's true, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.119 you know. Today, for example, before she went back for 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.679 another audition, she was prepping one of our daughters to 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.400 have her wisdom teeth out on the phone for an 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.000 hour with another daughter who just fell down the steps 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.440 of Trinity College and sprained her ankle, taking our dog 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.520 in to the to the vet to have some kind 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.640 of procedure, right, And I'm sitting here getting to talk 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.840 to Katie Kirk. So I'm not sure who has a 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.879 better deal on that. But let's talk about your philosophy 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.480 of the difference between service and hospitality. And I think 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.560 this is so important, and you also talk about in 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.560 your book I know that you wrote in two thousand 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:57.240 six called Setting the Table the Intersection of Leadership and hospitality. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.159 When you say hospitality, what does that mean to you? 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.480 And how does that how can that apply to all 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.000 of us and how we live our daily lives. Well, 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.280 I love the word. It's a complicated word, it turns out. 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.800 But I learned a lot about this word in an 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:16.720 odd way. Union Square Cafe, which at that time was 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.240 seven years old, won the James Beard Award, the national 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:25.680 award for outstanding service in America, and amongst other reasons, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.679 I felt like a complete impostor picking up that award 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.280 because we had always been taught that not only was 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:37.399 service everything, but waiters are in tuxedos and there making 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.680 your pasta table side and all that kind of fancy 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.520 stuff that we just never did. And I was like, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.600 how did we win that award? And then two years later, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.200 the Zagat survey comes out and Union Square Cafe had 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.679 the tenth best survey service in New York, the twelve 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.040 best food in New York, and the sixty best decor, 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.800 and yet it was New York's third favorite restaurant that year. 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.760 And I said, what are we doing that's making people 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.240 react in a way that's greater than some of our parts. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.640 And I started thinking about this word hospitality and how 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.720 it didn't exactly say the same thing as service. And 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.520 I started looking into the word, and the word hospitality 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:25.119 starts with s T, which on one hand it means guest, 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.239 and on the other hand it means host, and on 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.920 another hand it even means stranger, and on another hand 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.600 it even means enemy. And so you go, how do 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:39.520 I fit together guest, host, stranger enemy? Why are we 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.159 talking about two sides of a coin? Why is that 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.520 the root of everything from hospital or hospice or hotel 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.600 but also the root of the word hostility. So I 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.159 did a bunch of research on this, and nowhere in 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.080 there was there anything that had to do with service. 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:57.760 And so the two things that came out of it 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:02.600 for me were when people were law our service, what 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.760 they didn't know is that they were truly lauding our hospitality. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.080 The service is nothing more than a way to describe 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.800 the technical delivery of the product. Did we spill on 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:15.679 you or not, did we get the right food to 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.080 the right person at the right temperature or not. Did 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.480 we get your coat back or did we lose your coat? 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:26.160 Those are all matters of service. Hospitality, on the other hand, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.679 has everything to do with how did we make you 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:33.000 feel while we were delivering that technical service. And it 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.639 hit me really hard, which is that we need to 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.200 know what hospitality is. We need to understand that that's 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.159 one of our core competencies, caring how people feel. It 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.359 kind of went back to my early days as a 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.560 tour guide. So it's what we think about, It's what 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.840 we think about in all of our restaurants all the time. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.280 And then how does it impact life. I just think 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:57.840 that especially in these years subsequent to having the Internet, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.600 which means that there are no secrets under the under 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:02.720 the sun anymore. It used to be that you could 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.480 be someone's favorite restaurant because you made roast chicken better 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.159 than anybody else. But as soon as as soon as 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.880 we got the Internet, the word got out immediately. Then 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.159 you get pictures, you get tweets, you get Instagram, you 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:20.000 get instant ability to plagiarize every good idea under the sun. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:24.000 But the one thing that the Internet hasn't done is 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.080 to allow you to copy how someone made you feel. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.680 It's amazing to me that more businesses and more people 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.320 don't understand this. You know, you go to a store 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.440 and the salesperson ignores you, You You feel demeaned and sort 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:43.000 of dehumanized and marginalized and annoyed, and then you leave 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.280 and then you have a completely different experience it at 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.919 another store where someone's super helpful and nice. And you know, 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.840 I just don't understand why businesses really don't don't instill 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.360 these values. It seems so crazy, especially in quote unquote 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.720 service industry. Uh, you know, situations, it doesn't. And the 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.600 best thing about hospitality is it doesn't cost him anymore 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.320 to do it. You'll never see a line item on 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.840 a p and L statement or an annual report for 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:14.720 a public company and says, oh my god, we gotta 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.800 stop being nice to people. It's costing us way too 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:23.239 much money. We're going to take a quick break so 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.280 I can finish my pasta and even lick the bowl. 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.280 At this point we'll be back with more from Danny Meyer. 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.080 And now back to my conversation with the one, the 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:45.880 Only Danny Meyer. So do you give people who work 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.040 here like personality tests, because honestly, they are the ones 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.359 interfacing with the customer. And I imagine if you have 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.680 a a nice server or is that what you would call? Yeah, 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.200 a nice server. It means and I can speak from 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.000 experience and say it makes all the difference in the world. 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.119 It completely does. We don't yet have a way to 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.399