1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Hi everyone. Well it's just me today. I'm sorry all 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: you Brian Goldsmith fans, but he'll be back soon, so 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: don't worry. Meanwhile, here's what's cooking. Literally, I just wrapped 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: up an interview with Danny Meyer, who I love and 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: honestly I have a little bit of a crush on him. 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: He's a bit of a restaurant and hospitality icon. Sure 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: he founded shake Shack, the global burger empire, but he 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: actually made his name in fine dining many years before that. 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: He opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, one of 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: my favorites back when he was just so Danny and 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 1: I actually decided to meet at the new Union Square Cafe. 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: When I got there, the place was jam packed full 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: of diners enjoying late lunches, a few cocktails, Hey it's 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: five o'clock somewhere, maybe a bit of espresso, all served 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: on crisp white table cloths. There were even gingerbread houses 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: by the entrance. We headed upstairs, then to a private 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: dining room for our interview, and yes, a little taglia telly, 18 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: is that how you say it? Our conversation covered a 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: lot of ground, including Danny's famous approach to hospitality, why 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: he's banned tipping at some of his restaurants, and how 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: he gave birth to this new version of Union Square Cafe. 22 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: We called this our thirty year old startup because the 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: original Union Square Cafe had to close after three years 24 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: because we couldn't re up our lease in the original 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: spot on Street and we were just incredibly lucky to 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: find a space within a stone's throw of Union Square 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: and we reopened it a year ago. And this is 28 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: our birthday, and well, happy birthday, Union Square. And let's 29 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: talk of out the restaurant business, because you know so 30 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: many restaurants open and closed, Danny, and so many people 31 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,399 Speaker 1: want to do this for a living, and you've done 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: it so successfully. Tell me what the key is to 33 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: a fantastic restaurant that stands the test of time. I'm 34 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: not trying to be falsely humble, but if I really 35 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: knew the answer to that, we would have opened a 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: whole lot more restaurants over the course of thirty plus years. Well, 37 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: you've opened a lot, we have. And if if you 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 1: take out shake Shack, which will open its in the 39 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: United States this weekend in my hometown of St. Louis, 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: which I'm excited about the fine dining, full service restaurants 41 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: we have about We have about ten at this point, 42 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: so that's that's a lot. It's about one every three years, 43 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: but especially when you consider that I didn't open a 44 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: second one Grammercy tavern until ten years, so it took 45 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: ten years to open a second restaurant. This year alone, 46 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: we've opened five new restaurants. So the learning curve was 47 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: was steep and slow. And can we just interrupt this 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: podcast because somebody just brought in a little bowl of 49 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: pasta for me and I haven't eaten lunch, so I'm 50 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: very excited. I'm not going to be here at a 51 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: Danny Meyer restaurant. No, I'm not gonna have any wine, 52 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: thanks Danny. Danny just did the wine sign. I think 53 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: that I want to kind of keep my wits about 54 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: me and not get too woozy while we're going to 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: hear a lot of happy clanging and slurping as tell 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: me what I'm eating. Because listeners, I wish you all 57 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: could smell through your smartphones because or however you're listening 58 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: to with amazing mushrooms and it's it's it's kind of 59 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: a good illustration of what Union Square cafe is which 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: is nothing fancy or formal. And there's a great Italian 61 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: word which we first learned about from a hero of mine, 62 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: Seth Godin, and he coined this, or he coined this 63 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: about Union Square Cafe. The Italian terms spritsa and spreads 64 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: a tora was a term used to describe a painting 65 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: style in the fiftundreds in Italy, and what it meant 66 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: was that the technique that it took to make those 67 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: paintings came across as being quite simple, and yet it 68 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: was actually pretty hard to put together. And he he 69 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: uses the word to describe Union Square Cafe as well 70 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: as what you're eating right now, the food spreta. There 71 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: are so many restaurants and businesses that do the opposite, 72 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: where they make a big scene, like, look at all 73 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: the effort we put into this thing, and then you 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: eat it and you go, I'd rather just have had 75 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: a good bowl apasta somewhere. And so what he's saying 76 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: with sprits a tour is what if you could make 77 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: something that comes across as being simple, but it's actually 78 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: just really really satisfying. That's what we try to do here. Well, 79 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: I have to say it's working for me, Danny. And 80 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: what is it? What's the word again, Spreta, This is 81 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: really Sprea baby and enjoy. I also want to say 82 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: that that we got so into thinking about that when 83 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: we were reopening Union Square Cafe, that I took our 84 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: leaders on a trip to all the places in Italy 85 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: that had first inspired me when I was in my twenties. 86 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: And we did that a little over a year ago, 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: and we decided that we're going to bake our own 88 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: bread here, which we weren't able to do with the 89 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: first one, and we call our house bread. We call 90 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: it spreads, and you're going to taste some of that today. 91 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: I'm excited to do that. Well, this is delicious, and 92 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk with my mouthful, but I'm 93 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: going to have to. You know, you talk about Italy, 94 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: and I know you spent a year studying abroad. You 95 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: went to Trinity, the alma mater. My husband, John Mulner, 96 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: go Trinity Tigers right now, bantoms Bantom's John Muhlner, But 97 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: make sure not sorry. My daughter went to Trinity High 98 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: School and I think they're the Tigers. But anyway, you 99 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: spent your junior year in Rome, and is that where 100 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: you first became inspired to really become a restaurant tour 101 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: I know your dad inspired you as well, and we'll 102 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: talk about him and a moment, But what did the 103 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: Rome experience mean to you and do for you? I 104 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: had spent time in Rome working for my dad as 105 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: a tour guide when I was twenty and I was 106 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 1: responsible for picking up the group tours at the airport 107 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: in the morning. They'd be all cranky and jet lagged, 108 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: and I found that I'd be with these people for 109 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: four to six days, depending on what the tour was, 110 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: And I had this crazy neurotic wiring where it mattered 111 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: to me deeply to take the crankiest person from day 112 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: one and turn them into the happiest person by the 113 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: end of the trip. So all the tour itinerary said today, 114 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: we're going to go to the Cameo factory. Tomorrow we're 115 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: going to go to the So and So Museum, and 116 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: I just kept taking the tours to my favorite trotterias 117 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: around town, factories, well, the cameo factories. It's actually basically 118 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: it's an opportunity for guys to get kickbacks from the 119 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: cameo factory while you get this thing that you're going 120 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: to put in a drawer and forget about for the 121 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: next rest of your life. That Danny, So I decided, 122 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: if it's okay for guides to be getting commissions, why 123 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: not do it at Trotaria. So I was getting paid 124 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: a thousand lira per head of every tour guest that 125 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: I would bring into these restaurants, and it was completely legal. 126 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: Um what was not legal was these people would come 127 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: home and they would rave about the trip, and my 128 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: dad's office would say, well, what did you love about it? 129 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: And nothing they were raving about was on the itinerary 130 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: he had sold them. So I almost lost my job. 131 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: That's so funny. Anyway, after that, I went back studied 132 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: Italian at Trinity College. Loved it, and Trinity has a 133 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: campus in Rome, and we convinced our political science professor 134 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: to do a special international politics class at Trinity, and 135 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: so we studied Italian politics, study European politics. Yes we 136 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: studied Italian and yes I studied Trotarias. Why did you 137 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: go into policy, s Danny, if you were there studying 138 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: international Well after I graduated from Trinity, I wanted to 139 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: be either you when I grew up um, and I 140 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: went to go look at journalism schools. I actually got 141 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: a job at the NBC affiliate in Chicago right out 142 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: of college, really working as a production assistant for the 143 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: Sunday Morning Politics show. And on the very day I 144 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: got offered that job, I was offered a job as 145 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: Cook County field coordinator for John Anderson's nineteen eight campaign, 146 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: John Anderson, who just passed to day and Uh. I 147 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: decided I should take that job because it was a 148 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: much loftier experience than I ever would have gotten with 149 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: a Republican or Democratic candidate, because he had, you know, 150 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: as an independent presidential candidate, he had absolutely no infrastructure whatsoever. 151 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: So I got an amazing education. And then I was 152 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: either going to go to law school or journalism school, 153 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: but you decided to go to neither. I decided to 154 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: go to neither and start making poster for a living. 155 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: That's so funny, And so why that sudden turned back 156 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: into or yeah, I guess to your roots of loving 157 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: Trotarias or Tritorius. How do you say that, Trotia? Why 158 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: did you decide to go back into food? I'm glad 159 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: you did, by because I'm really enjoying this pasta seconds. No, 160 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: thank you, I'm good. I'm good, But you don't mind 161 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: if I continue? Do you know? I'd be offended if 162 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: you didn't. But it's not really for me having gone 163 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: back to those roots, because you have to understand we're talking. Um. 164 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: I moved to New York in nineteen eighty. I my 165 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: first night here was the night John Lennon was shot 166 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: at the end of nineteen eighty. So not only was 167 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: the city of very different city kind of a scary 168 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: time here, but restaurants were not really an accepted career 169 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: choice for someone with a liberal arts education. It just 170 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: was nothing that had ever occurred to me that, in 171 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: addition to cooking for my friends and for myself at home, 172 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: that I should actually even consider for a minute going 173 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: into this business. But the word foodie haven't been invented yet, 174 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: I haven't The word foodie completely didn't exist. But I 175 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: would also say that the notion of a valid entrepreneurial 176 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: career choice was just completely off the table at that point. 177 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: In fact, I was embarrassed and afraid and ashamed to 178 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: tell my family that I might do this. Really a 179 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: whole lot of other things I could have told him 180 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: that they would have accepted a lot more quickly than this. 181 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: I was going to say, but who has the last lap? Now? 182 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, obviously you've just been extraordinarily successful, 183 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: and I want to talk about sort of what you've 184 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: learned in the restaurant business. You were twenty seven years old. 185 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: I should mention when you started Union Square Cafe in 186 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: you were so young it where did you have to 187 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: think I can do this well? One of the I 188 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: think one of the great hallmarks of an entrepreneur, and 189 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: you either are or your not. It's not a good 190 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: thing to be an entrepreneur. It's not a bad thing 191 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: not to be one. But I think entrepreneurs are they're upsided, 192 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: meaning that they're just incapable of seeing the downside. My 193 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: eyes just couldn't see how this could fail. I knew. 194 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 1: And the other thing is is that if it had failed, 195 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: who would have cared? No one had heard of me, 196 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: so in a weird way, the first time you do 197 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: something as an entrepreneur, you only see possibility. I wasn't 198 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: even thinking economically about this. I just knew it was 199 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: going to work, and if it didn't, it would have 200 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: been okay. With each subsequent restaurant. After that, you've got 201 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: a lot more to lose because now you've got a 202 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: brand you have to think about, got employees you got 203 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: to care about. I should mention before you opened Union 204 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: Square Cafe, you worked at Pesca and you were an 205 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: assistant manager. I was the assistant lunch manager. And that's 206 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: where you met your lovely wife, Audrey, who was a 207 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: waitress there. So Audrey was an actress, um, which she 208 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: still is. As a matter of fact, she just text 209 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: me saying she got a little role on Billions, which 210 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: she's very excited about. That's excited. So UM, Audrey and 211 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: I met on my very very first day of work. Um. 212 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: By the way, my interview at Pesca consisted of the 213 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: owner looking me up and down for six seconds and 214 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: saying you'll do that was my job interview. So on 215 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: my very first day of work, I'm running down the 216 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: steps to the reservation office because that was my first job, 217 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: to take lunch reservations, and this beautiful woman was running 218 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: up the stairs with a tray of butters that she 219 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: had prepared for lunch, and we literally locked eyes on 220 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: the stairway. It was like, you know, for about three seconds, 221 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: she continued up. I continued down. I came home at 222 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: night and I said, I'm gonna like this job. The 223 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: next day she was gone, and I didn't even know 224 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: how to ask, like I started looking at I didn't 225 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: want to what happened to the lady with the butter right, 226 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: So I started looking at the schedules surreptitiously. She's not 227 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: on the schedule for the following week, or for the 228 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: week after, or for the week after. I finally learned 229 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: as I got to know people that she had gotten 230 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: a role in Guys and Dolls. I think it was 231 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: in Indiana, if I'm not mistaken. And so she was gone. 232 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: That was it. About five months later, I'm answering the 233 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: telephones and there's Audrey and calling to see if she 234 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: can get back on the schedule, and I said, yeah, 235 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: I can probably help arrange that for you. So we 236 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: kind of flirted for another five months after that. She 237 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: had a boyfriend I learned about that. We finally had 238 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: our first date on my last night of work before 239 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: I was going off to Italy and Francigo Cook and 240 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: we've been married now for it. We'll have our thirtieth 241 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: anniversary this year. That's so great four kids, four kids? Yeah, wow, 242 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: and what's what's what do you think the secret to 243 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: being having a good marriage for that many years is Danny? 244 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: Because you know you're busy. I'm sure that it's hard 245 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: with your schedule, her schedule. I'm sure you meet a 246 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: lot of beautiful, glamorous people. I'm sure Autrey does too, 247 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: by the way, in her line of work, kissing people 248 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: on stage and two of her last place that's were 249 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: you like, wait a minute, why I was more than that. 250 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: In fact, once I went with my son and he 251 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: like buried his head into my under arm during the scene. 252 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: What kind of kissed was it? By the way, I 253 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: was just handed another bowl of pasta. Do you all 254 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: think I'm running a marathon or something that I'm part loading? 255 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: That one? You definitely want to try that. That spreads 256 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: a tour right there? That is Explain this. Explain this? 257 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: What does it look like? It looks like spaghetti with 258 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: Marinara sauce. That's it? Can you hear me? And spinning 259 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: my spaghetti on my fork? Everyone like we have these 260 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: sound effects. I remember the old days on the Today Show. 261 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: You would take a of this and then the camera 262 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: would focus in and you go, Oh my god, that's 263 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: so good. You know, I used to hate when people 264 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: would show me eating. This is the beauty of doing 265 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: a podcast. Mm hmmm mmmmmmmm. That's delicious. I'm telling you all. 266 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: She's smiling right now. I'm really really good. I don't 267 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna eat the whole bowl. I should share 268 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: with my producer Gianna. It's only right, right. But you're asking, 269 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: what do I think the secret is? I I don't know. 270 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: I saw a great interview recently with a couple that 271 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: have been married sixty years, twice as long as Audrey 272 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: and I have been married, and the uh, the wife 273 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: had the best answer to that question, and I can't 274 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: beat it. She said. The secrets very simple. I just 275 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: always let him have my way. That's funny, and I 276 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: pretty much always let Audrey have her way. Now we understand, 277 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: there's there's a great moment in our marriage that was 278 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: not fun at the time, but it was a good one. 279 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: Audrey's got a remarkable design sense, just really good taste, 280 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: and we had just renovated a new apartment. This is 281 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: probably fifteen years ago or sixteen years ago. I made 282 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: the mistake of coming home from the restaurant one night, 283 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: and Audrey had bought these new soap dishes for our 284 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: beautiful new bathroom. And I made a face at the 285 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: soap dish and I said, are those are soap dishes? 286 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: And Audrey just looked at me with eyes that could kill, 287 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: and she said, may I just remind you that this 288 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: is not one of your restaurants, and I'm not one 289 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: of your employees. And I feel like I learned a 290 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: really important division of labor at that point, which is 291 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: that there's a lot to do at home. It's really 292 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: hard work. Um, she's an incredible mom. She's incredible at, 293 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, balancing an acting career and keeping things moving 294 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: in the house, which I couldn't do. I just don't 295 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: know how to do that. So a big part of 296 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: it is stay away from the stuff in eight years 297 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: and taken care bit. And I think women, probably and 298 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: some men who are listening to this probably really appreciate 299 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: your saying that, because I think oftentimes that kind of work, 300 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: which is really being CEO of a household, is really 301 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: undervalued and you don't get a day off. That's true, 302 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: you know. Today, for example, before she went back for 303 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: another audition, she was prepping one of our daughters to 304 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: have her wisdom teeth out on the phone for an 305 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: hour with another daughter who just fell down the steps 306 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: of Trinity College and sprained her ankle, taking our dog 307 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: in to the to the vet to have some kind 308 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: of procedure, right, And I'm sitting here getting to talk 309 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: to Katie Kirk. So I'm not sure who has a 310 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: better deal on that. But let's talk about your philosophy 311 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: of the difference between service and hospitality. And I think 312 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: this is so important, and you also talk about in 313 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: your book I know that you wrote in two thousand 314 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: six called Setting the Table the Intersection of Leadership and hospitality. 315 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: When you say hospitality, what does that mean to you? 316 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: And how does that how can that apply to all 317 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: of us and how we live our daily lives. Well, 318 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: I love the word. It's a complicated word, it turns out. 319 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: But I learned a lot about this word in an 320 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: odd way. Union Square Cafe, which at that time was 321 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: seven years old, won the James Beard Award, the national 322 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: award for outstanding service in America, and amongst other reasons, 323 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: I felt like a complete impostor picking up that award 324 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: because we had always been taught that not only was 325 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: service everything, but waiters are in tuxedos and there making 326 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: your pasta table side and all that kind of fancy 327 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: stuff that we just never did. And I was like, 328 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: how did we win that award? And then two years later, 329 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: the Zagat survey comes out and Union Square Cafe had 330 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: the tenth best survey service in New York, the twelve 331 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: best food in New York, and the sixty best decor, 332 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: and yet it was New York's third favorite restaurant that year. 333 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: And I said, what are we doing that's making people 334 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: react in a way that's greater than some of our parts. 335 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: And I started thinking about this word hospitality and how 336 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: it didn't exactly say the same thing as service. And 337 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: I started looking into the word, and the word hospitality 338 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: starts with s T, which on one hand it means guest, 339 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,239 Speaker 1: and on the other hand it means host, and on 340 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: another hand it even means stranger, and on another hand 341 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: it even means enemy. And so you go, how do 342 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: I fit together guest, host, stranger enemy? Why are we 343 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: talking about two sides of a coin? Why is that 344 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: the root of everything from hospital or hospice or hotel 345 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: but also the root of the word hostility. So I 346 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: did a bunch of research on this, and nowhere in 347 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: there was there anything that had to do with service. 348 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: And so the two things that came out of it 349 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: for me were when people were law our service, what 350 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: they didn't know is that they were truly lauding our hospitality. 351 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: The service is nothing more than a way to describe 352 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: the technical delivery of the product. Did we spill on 353 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: you or not, did we get the right food to 354 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: the right person at the right temperature or not. Did 355 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: we get your coat back or did we lose your coat? 356 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: Those are all matters of service. Hospitality, on the other hand, 357 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: has everything to do with how did we make you 358 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: feel while we were delivering that technical service. And it 359 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: hit me really hard, which is that we need to 360 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: know what hospitality is. We need to understand that that's 361 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: one of our core competencies, caring how people feel. It 362 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: kind of went back to my early days as a 363 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: tour guide. So it's what we think about, It's what 364 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: we think about in all of our restaurants all the time. 365 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: And then how does it impact life. I just think 366 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: that especially in these years subsequent to having the Internet, 367 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: which means that there are no secrets under the under 368 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: the sun anymore. It used to be that you could 369 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: be someone's favorite restaurant because you made roast chicken better 370 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: than anybody else. But as soon as as soon as 371 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: we got the Internet, the word got out immediately. Then 372 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: you get pictures, you get tweets, you get Instagram, you 373 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: get instant ability to plagiarize every good idea under the sun. 374 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: But the one thing that the Internet hasn't done is 375 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: to allow you to copy how someone made you feel. 376 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that more businesses and more people 377 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: don't understand this. You know, you go to a store 378 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: and the salesperson ignores you, You You feel demeaned and sort 379 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: of dehumanized and marginalized and annoyed, and then you leave 380 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: and then you have a completely different experience it at 381 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: another store where someone's super helpful and nice. And you know, 382 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: I just don't understand why businesses really don't don't instill 383 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: these values. It seems so crazy, especially in quote unquote 384 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: service industry. Uh, you know, situations, it doesn't. And the 385 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: best thing about hospitality is it doesn't cost him anymore 386 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: to do it. You'll never see a line item on 387 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: a p and L statement or an annual report for 388 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: a public company and says, oh my god, we gotta 389 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: stop being nice to people. It's costing us way too 390 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: much money. We're going to take a quick break so 391 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: I can finish my pasta and even lick the bowl. 392 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: At this point we'll be back with more from Danny Meyer. 393 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: And now back to my conversation with the one, the 394 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: Only Danny Meyer. So do you give people who work 395 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: here like personality tests, because honestly, they are the ones 396 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: interfacing with the customer. And I imagine if you have 397 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: a a nice server or is that what you would call? Yeah, 398 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: a nice server. It means and I can speak from 399 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: experience and say it makes all the difference in the world. 400 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: It completely does. We don't yet have a way to 401 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: measure something that we call h Q hospitality quotation, but 402 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: we're working on it. We know what the six emotional 403 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: skills are that are always president someone who's got a 404 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: high HQ. And if you have a high HQ, like 405 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: so many other things, I have no idea what my 406 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: i Q is, but it doesn't really matter and I'm 407 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: not better. What I'm trying to say is that, however, 408 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: we got our h Q. We got it. But for 409 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: me an HQ is a way to describe the degree 410 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: to which it matters to you to make other people 411 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: feel good. Well, I was going to say it also, 412 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: you know it comes from the top. You know, the 413 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: fish smells from the head, as they say. And I 414 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: think you set a tone at your restaurants of the 415 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: way you want to treat people, whether it's your employees 416 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: right or your customers. And so I imagine what do 417 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: you do when you hear that that somebody had a 418 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: surly waiter, if it's in one of our restaurants, Yeah, 419 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: I've flipped my wig. I mean I'm not I'm not 420 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: happy at all if I hear that, And it means 421 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:06,239 Speaker 1: that Look, if whenever we have a guest complaint, and 422 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: I've seen many of them over the course of my career, 423 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: the first thing is I'm grateful that they cared enough 424 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: to let us know. It's not fun if they do 425 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: it in a public way, and you know, you're airing 426 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: your dirty laundry on Twitter. But if they do that, 427 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: that means that they're really angry. But I'm actually grateful 428 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: because it means they're holding us to the same high 429 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: standard we're holding ourselves you and I'd rather if if 430 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: it half the thing happened, I'd rather know about it 431 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: than not. Most people are good enough to write directly. 432 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: So almost of every complaint I've ever gotten, even though 433 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: it says it's about the overcooked steak or the undercooked salmon, 434 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: or the over salted risotto, or the weight between the 435 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 1: first and second course, or the you know, whatever the 436 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: complaint is, it's almost never really that. It's almost always 437 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: somewhere along the line, we did not make people feel 438 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: like we were on their side. And at the end 439 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: of the day hospitality, we forget the Latin and Italian. 440 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: It comes down to two things. Did you feel like 441 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: we were on your side or not? And you can 442 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: make it even simpler with one preposition for do you 443 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: feel like we did something for you? Or do you 444 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: feel like we did something to you? It's that simple. 445 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: So when you go to a store and you feel 446 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: like someone's being surly, do you think I feel like 447 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: they were doing something for you. No, So if our 448 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: service is good and it's the timings right and all 449 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 1: that stuff, it still doesn't mean we did anything for you. 450 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: That's what you expect services all the stuff you should 451 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: expect from us. Sometimes we fail at service, and really 452 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: good hospitality can actually overcome that. And hospitality trump service. Basically, 453 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: what does it do? Trump's service? Yeah, I guess. So 454 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm dying to ask you about a few more buckets 455 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: of of things. And one, of course, I think before 456 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: I ask you about shake Shack, which I'm interested in 457 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: and some of our listeners are as well. Tell me 458 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: about this no tipping policy. You know, I know that 459 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: that's been harder to implement than you thought. Um, and 460 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: I guess, according to some people, has had mixed results. Um. 461 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: So you decided to charge customers more for their food? 462 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: Is that right? Eliminate tipping? Well, let's start with the 463 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: last thing you said. We decided to eliminate tipping. And 464 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: when you eliminate tipping, what you're basically saying is that 465 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: the menu price covers all of my expenses with enough 466 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: money to make a profit, right, including your employees, including 467 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: the formerly tipped employees. Because when you go to a 468 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: restaurant that accepts tips, it's a bizarre, mostly American cultural thing. 469 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: And we've got this packed. Our restaurant industry has had 470 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: a pact with the public forever which is the menu 471 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: price is going to include your food, the tablecloth, the flowers, 472 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 1: the rent, the chefs salary, but you're going to have 473 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: to pay separately for the person who brought you the 474 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: food that the chef cooked that won't be included in 475 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: the price. And it's it's a system that as as 476 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: we've watched, it become harder and harder and harder for 477 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: really talented people to live in a city like New 478 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: York and be able to pay the cost of living here, 479 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: especially cooks, because they are not able to share in 480 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: tips by law. And we have meanwhile seen that as 481 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: manu prices have gone up year after year, Like if 482 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: you looked at Union Square cafe menu prices, you'd want 483 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: to eat at that restaurant every night of your life. Um, 484 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: And what is a tip? It's a multiplier of menu prices. 485 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: So escalating menu prices, escalating tip percentage. Waiters are doing 486 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: pretty well, although it's somewhat dead end because you can't 487 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: afford as a waiter or server to take a pay 488 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: cut and become a manager, which is how your career 489 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: would actually advance in hospitality, because tipped employees often make 490 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: more money even than managers. Do. But meanwhile cooks are 491 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: making almost exactly what they were making. So we said, 492 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,479 Speaker 1: enough of this, let's change the system. So you're right, 493 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: it's been a challenge. It's been very challenging to get 494 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: the math right because, um, you did ask. Did we 495 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: just add not exactly? Some things we added more than 496 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: some things we added way less than twenty Let's take 497 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: a beer. Everyone knows what a beer should cost. We 498 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: may not want to add to the beer, but we 499 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: may be able to add to the salmon because maybe 500 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: we were under charging for the salmon in the first place. 501 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: So the challenge mathematically is how do you get a 502 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: price on the menu for guests who are used to 503 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: sing prices that they know they're going to have to 504 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: add to. How do you get people used to sing 505 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: a price and figure out what would that price be 506 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: minus It's really hard for people to do that without 507 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: getting whiplash just the minute they open the menu. And 508 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: then how do you have enough money so that the 509 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: servers who were used to getting high tips can now 510 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: get an hourly wage, which approximates that how do we 511 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: have enough money to pay our cooks more than they 512 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: were making, And how do we have enough money to 513 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: promote our starting managers so that you can actually have 514 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: a career path if you're a server. So it's complicated, 515 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: really really hard. Are many restaurants doing this now, Danny? Not? Really? 516 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: Are they saying, uh, he's the guinea pig and we're 517 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: not doing that? Yes? Yes, by and large, that's that's 518 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: the answer. I've had a huge number of people come 519 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: up to me and say thanks for running through the 520 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: barbed wire for the to us. And I've I've looked 521 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: shown my arms. I'm not all cut up. It's not 522 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: really that bad. I have no regrets at all. And um, 523 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't do it otherwise because I just think 524 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: it's this is transparent, and I think we're we're at 525 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: a point in time where tipping is now being seen 526 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: as the anachronism that it is. Let me ask you 527 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: about shake Shack, because wow, why didn't I think of that? 528 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,719 Speaker 1: It's so huge? How many of their how many of 529 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: them are there now? Um, this weekend will be opening 530 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: in my hometown of St. Louis number nine seven in 531 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: the US, and then there's another seventy five or so 532 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: internationally at this point, So who knew? Who knew? It started? 533 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: Sort of as a food cart, right, Danny, It started, well, 534 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: the whole thing was kind of just completely unexpected story. 535 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: It started off as an art project. We were helping 536 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: to take the lead with the restoration of Madison Square Park, 537 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: and unlike Union Square Park, which has this fantastic green market, 538 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: Madison Square Park didn't have an open piazza. But what 539 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: it did have and what it does have are these 540 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: beautiful walking paths with nineteenth century statues. And one day 541 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: we said, why don't we join all these nineteenth century 542 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: statues with really good contemporary art. We said, this is 543 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: our front yard. This needs to be beautiful and it 544 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: needs to be safe. So we turned to the Public 545 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: Art Fund, which is a wonderful organization here in New 546 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: York City, and they curated. They brought in a sculptor 547 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: from Thailand who came up with this crazy idea of 548 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: having taxi cabs on stilts with a working hot dog 549 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: cart aside, and they needed somebody to operate the hot 550 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: dog cart. He was trying to make a political statement 551 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: that everyone in the world has either had to drive 552 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: a taxi cab or was able to afford being driven 553 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: in one. Everyone else in the world has either been 554 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: able to afford to buy a hot dog or had 555 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: to be the guy's selling one. So I didn't know 556 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: anything about the artist, but we said we'll sign up, 557 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: we'll do the hot dog cart. And we were pretty 558 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: slow back in those days, up in our private dining 559 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: room at eleven Madison Park, and so we said, we'll 560 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: do Chicago style hot dogs. I love them, and I 561 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: figured what a great way to test out hospitality because 562 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: Chicago hot dog has eight classic toppings. Katie's the person 563 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: who likes everything except mustard, and Johnny's the person who 564 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: likes everything except cucumbers, and could and so lo and behold. 565 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: Every day we would have seventy or eighty people waiting 566 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: in line. Peter Jennings covered it. Tom Brokeaw covered it. 567 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: Dan Rather covered it. It was kind of like it 568 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: was just just a little hot dog cart. Nine eleven 569 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: happened right after that summer. Obviously, the city went into 570 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: a deep depression in every respect, and the following summer, 571 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: even though the taxi cabs were down, the community begged 572 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: us to bring back this hot dog cart. So we did. 573 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: That was two thousand, two thousand three. They begged us 574 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: to bring it back. At third year, we did, and 575 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: at that point I said, this is crazy. Why don't 576 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: we turn this into a permanent thing. And so we 577 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: raised the money philanthropically to build a kiosk twy twenty ft. 578 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: We called it shake Shack. The deal was we would 579 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: give it to the park. We would own the business. 580 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: The park would become our landlords, so that a percentage 581 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: of every dollar sale would go right back into the 582 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: park and hopefully create a little revenue for the park. 583 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: No one knew that this was going to turn into 584 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: a viable business, much less a public company. People went crazy, 585 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: they did, and it was not for five years that 586 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: we opened a second one, because it was never meant 587 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: to be a business like this today. So that was 588 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand four. Now here we are thirteen years later, 589 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: with you know, well over a hundred fifty around the world. 590 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: And I think most importantly, if you go back to 591 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: the original vision, not only is Madison Square Park more 592 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: beautiful and safer than ever, but that little shake Shack 593 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: is now creating a million dollars in annual revenue for 594 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: the park. And I just like, that's a great story, 595 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: and I want to I want to do that one again. 596 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: Somehow I'd like to do that too. Well. We had 597 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people sending questions that I think we're 598 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: related to shake shack. So this is from someone from 599 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: your hometown sent us a voicemail. Let's listen to what 600 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: the question is. Hi, I'm a former St. Louis in 601 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: and no Danny Myers too. Growing up in St. Louis, 602 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: eating out as steak and shake was a great treat 603 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: for my brother and myself. I'm wondering how much influence 604 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: the steak in shakes of St. Louis head on Danny 605 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: if he developed the shape shack. It almost seems like 606 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: a dated version to me. Thank you well. The steak 607 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: and Shake had a huge impact, as did fits his 608 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: root Beard drive in UM, as did Ted Drew's Frozen 609 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: About Ted Drew's Absolutely and Crown Candy Kitchen with their malts. 610 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: And I think the thing that was just, I don't 611 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: know so powerful for me, was this the only way 612 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: when you're sixteen and you get your driver's license in St. 613 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: Louis and it's, you know, the nineteen seventies, that you 614 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: you get independence is to get in your car and 615 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: go to a parking lot somewhere and hang out with 616 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: your friends. And that's the kind of places we did 617 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: it at. And and I realized that now it's two 618 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: thousand four New York City. New Yorkers don't get in 619 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: their car and drive around. But what if we could 620 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: use a park, a public park like Passon Square Park, 621 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: almost in the same way that I had grown up 622 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: at places like Steak and Shake, using the parking lot 623 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: where people get to hang out with people. And I 624 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: realized that what Fast Food had done, you know, between 625 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: the happy Day's era um and and today, was they 626 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,439 Speaker 1: hijacked the experience of people being with people. The whole 627 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: point was get it quick, cheap, and then get out 628 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: of there right and drive through. And and we said, well, okay, 629 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: we didn't invent hamburgers or hot dogs or milkshakes, but 630 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: what if we could make them a little bit better, 631 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: but then return the experience of people getting to be 632 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: with people. And in the most convoluted way, the long 633 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: lines at Shake Shack gave people an opportunity to be 634 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: with people. And and it just, I don't know, it 635 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: just works. I wish I had come up with that idea. 636 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,240 Speaker 1: We got lucky, you know, um, I love St. Louis 637 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: By the way, I dated a boy from St. Louis 638 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: at UVA, but I love you dated or he dated 639 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: a friend of mine I can't really remember. But he 640 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: also is kind of behind the St. Louis tradition. His 641 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: name is Joe Switzer and Switzer's liquorice didn't didn't like 642 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: a street smell like licorice because the Switzers. Oh my gosh, 643 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: how many people know Switzers licorice? That was That was 644 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,479 Speaker 1: like the best. That takes me back to Spicer's five 645 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: and ten, where I'd go for Switzer's liquorice and baseball cards. St. 646 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: Louis must have been a really fun place to grow 647 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: up with so many people I know I really like 648 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: from St. Louis, like Bob Costas is from St. Louis 649 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: and my friend Bou Kissinger who I went to v 650 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: A with. But anyway, I digress. We have another question, 651 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: you know book Kissner. Yeah, I think real name is Eileen. 652 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: I think she went to the same school I went to, 653 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: John Burrows. If I'm not that's so funny. And I 654 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,720 Speaker 1: also dated a boy from St. Louis name Buzzy Lane. 655 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: What I think I know him too. I think he 656 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: went to St. Louis Country Day School. He did. It 657 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: was nice. We can play this game pretty well. Isn't 658 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: that funny? The name game? All right? Here's another question 659 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: from Daniel on Twitter. He says, my family of four 660 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: loves Shake Shack, from their burgers to hot dogs, to 661 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: the fries and the cheese sauce it. As a parent, 662 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm a little concerned about the number of calories they're 663 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: taking in every time we visit. Are you thinking on 664 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: expanding your menu to include a bit more healthier options? Amen, Daniel. 665 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: I want to know the answer to that question. And 666 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: do you want to start a new fast food restaurant 667 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: which I know you call fast casual with me, Danny? 668 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: That would really serve much healthier options. So a great question, 669 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 1: and I think the most candid answer is that people 670 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: don't like to eat healthy food. No. I think people 671 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: do increasingly care about eating healthy food, and they should 672 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 1: as do I as do as do my whole family. 673 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: Because you're very I should say. People can't see you, 674 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: but I'm sitting next to you and you're quite spelt. 675 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,439 Speaker 1: I know you take good care of yourself. I would 676 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: weigh four pounds if I did what you do. I 677 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: don't think you would, because I think that that good. 678 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 1: So let me just start at the beginning. Shake Shack 679 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: is not a health food restaurant, and I think that 680 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: an one who says I've got a great diet, you 681 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: should eat cheeseburgers and cheese fries and milkshakes every day 682 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: of your life would get laughed out of town. On 683 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: the other hand, I would say that I'm not at 684 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: all interested in living a completely monastic, pleasure free life. 685 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: And there are times when I want to have a 686 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,959 Speaker 1: good steak or a good cheeseburger, and I think what's 687 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: important is when you do that, When you do make 688 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 1: that choice, let it be something good. And I think 689 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: one of the things we take very very seriously at 690 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: shake Shack is how do we source the ingredients. We 691 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: made a big move to use beef that is completely 692 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: all natural, which in this case sometimes that means nothing, 693 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: but in this case it means hormone growth, hormone free 694 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: and antibiotic free. Um every single ingredient we use. We have, 695 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: our fries are now non GMO. We care deeply so that, yeah, 696 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: you have calories, I would say, here's the secret. Only 697 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: have a half of a milkshake, but make it a 698 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: coffee milkshake, and do it with French fries, and only 699 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: do it. Only do that, like every now and then. 700 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: The burgers are really not that high in calories. Next thing, 701 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: you asked a really good question, what are we doing? 702 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: First of all, here's what we're not doing. We're not 703 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: going to become a full service restaurant, where we say, 704 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: in order to make sure Katie and and whoever cares 705 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: about this, in order to make sure they come every day, 706 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: let's add salads and raw fish and all kinds of 707 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: grilled chicken sandwich or something. So here we go. So 708 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: we added a We added a fantastic chicken sandwich a 709 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: year ago, um, which is killer if you've never tried it. 710 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: It's not grilled, it's fried. We are we're playing actually 711 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: right this minute in Brooklyn with a new grilled chicken sandwich. 712 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: So you can try that and we'll see how people 713 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: react to it. If you need a taste tester, give 714 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: me a call. We get a lot of people who 715 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: ask us, when can we we love your schomberg. We 716 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: have a mushroom burger happens to have cheese in it, 717 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: and so increasingly we're hearing from people who are vegan saying, 718 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: is there something you can serve us other than just 719 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: French fries. We love your French fries, but that's the 720 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,919 Speaker 1: only vegan thing on the whole menu. And so we're 721 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: working on that as well, and we'll see if, if, if, 722 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: someday we can come up with something that is cravable. 723 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 1: And my metric for shake Shack are two things. It 724 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: needs to be something that is plausibly something you would 725 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: eat at a shack, right, So you're not going to 726 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: get a avocado salad. I'm sorry, You're gonna have to 727 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,839 Speaker 1: go to Union Square Cafe for that. But let's say, 728 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: and metric number two is it has to be cravable. 729 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: So the schumburger made the menu because it looks like 730 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: a burger, it eats like a burger. It's mushrooms and cheese, 731 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,720 Speaker 1: and it's something that as a carnivore I would even crave. 732 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,760 Speaker 1: So I want to come up someday, hopefully with something 733 00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: that is vegan and cravable, even to to omnivores. Having 734 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,399 Speaker 1: said that, I mean, I do think there's a big 735 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: hole in the market, and I think you and I 736 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: should discuss this after the podcast for a healthier fast 737 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: casual restaurant, because I always say to Howard Schultz name drop. 738 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,839 Speaker 1: I know, but I know him a little because I've 739 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,760 Speaker 1: interviewed him a bunch of times. Like have some healthier 740 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: options at Starbucks. They've started to, but I think, like 741 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: you even have a healthy brand muffin that is a 742 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: hundred calories. I would get it all the time at Starbucks. 743 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: That would make me come to start right now. We've 744 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: just invested in a company called Tender Greens, which is 745 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: a California based company. They'll be coming to New York 746 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: early in You've also invested in Sweet Greens. I know 747 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: in Sweet, I know too much about you. It's it's 748 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: actually scaring me. So now, I don't think that either 749 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: of those two awesome places are what you would call 750 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: fast casual. They're a little bit more than that. Um, 751 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: And I do think you're right. I think there's there's 752 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: a place for really cravable food that you could eat 753 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: three times a day and feel good about yourself. So 754 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: we have to wrap it up, but I want to 755 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,720 Speaker 1: dish with you for a minute. Who was your favorite 756 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: customer you've had here at one of your restaurants. I mean, 757 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: who did you You've met everybody, Danny, well obviously you, 758 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, well okay, other than me, But who did 759 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: you meet that just blew your socks off? Boy? So 760 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: many which is pretty cool. But I have to say 761 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: my childhood hero who um was Bob Gibson the picture 762 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: for the St. Louis Cardinals. Um when he came to 763 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: Union Square Cafe and I was at the game where 764 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: Roberto Clementi lined a shot off of Gibson's shin and 765 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: Gibson got up and pitched to the next three batters 766 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: with a broken leg. Um, you want to talk about 767 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: courage I saw in the area at at one point 768 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: to one E r A. And the fact that that 769 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: guy who I looked up to as a little kid 770 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: was eating dinner and drinking wine in my restaurant, let 771 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: me sit down and talk with him, and later became 772 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: an investor in our barbecue restaurant, Blue Smoke. I mean, 773 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty cool. It doesn't get much better than that, 774 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: didn't How about somebody who maybe people who aren't baseball aficionados, 775 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:19,240 Speaker 1: would know about any celebrities, any movie stars, TV stars, 776 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I mean, I don't even know 777 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: where to start. Just remember thinking, wow, that's cool. I mean, 778 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: we've had President Obama, um eating at my aleno, and 779 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: how cool for him to stand up in front of 780 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 1: the entire dining room and put his arm around me 781 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: and say, I would not be president if it hadn't 782 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: been for your grandfather who schooled me and zero to 783 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: three early childhood education when I was when I was 784 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 1: running for state Senate of Illinois, state senate, not even 785 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: US Senate. That was pretty cool. It's also cool to 786 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: have Michelle Obama come in, but it was pretty cool 787 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 1: to have the Bush daughters in the restaurant. We're we 788 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: played all sides, we played all sides of the aisle here. 789 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: You're such a diploma. I will say this, it's kind 790 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: of amazing to me that in thirty two years of 791 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:19,879 Speaker 1: being a restaurateur. UM, I don't know that I've ever 792 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,400 Speaker 1: served Donald Trump once that not all politicians care about food. 793 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: Um if Donald, if Donald Trump came to your restaurant now, UM, 794 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: I know you would be ever the gracious host you are, 795 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: do you I don't actually you tell me. Of course 796 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: we would, of course you would. It would It would 797 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: be a very very awkward situation because I'm afraid that 798 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: our staff members on a number of levels would would 799 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: look askance at me. You know, one of the most 800 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: important parts of our business is caring for the people 801 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,879 Speaker 1: who work here. And it's true that we do not 802 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: take a political test of the people who work in 803 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: our company, and we have people who are probably huge 804 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: Donald Trump fans who work somewhere in our company. But 805 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: I also have a sense that if he did nine 806 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: in the restaurant, people would be incredibly professional, and they 807 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,880 Speaker 1: would also probably be somewhat uncomfortable. Well, Danny, thanks so 808 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: much for letting us come and showing us what is 809 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: the Latin word for hospitality again, speedy? Well you showed 810 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 1: us and oh speedy. So thank you very much. It's 811 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: really fun to talk to you. Before I think our 812 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: production team I was so remiss in not breaking out 813 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: in song during my interview with Danny Meyer. You know, 814 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: when you have a good answer to an insult or 815 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: something someone says to you, like thirty minutes later and 816 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,360 Speaker 1: you think I should have said this, while I'm thinking 817 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: I should have sung this. Food glorious food, hot sausage 818 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: and mustard. While we're in the mood cold Jelly and 819 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: custard peace putting in SAVALOI, what next is a question? 820 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: Rich gentlemen? Have it boys and diedgess John, excuse me? 821 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: That was from Oliver the Musical, And the reason I 822 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: know the words is I sang it at our sixth 823 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: grade assembly with a bunch of other people. Please do 824 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: not worry anyway. Thank you so much to our production team. 825 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: You know their names by now. Gianna Palmer our producer, 826 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: Gared O'Connell, our audio engineer, or Richie our production assistant. 827 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,280 Speaker 1: Where was Nora today? She was editing some other shows. Gosh, 828 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 1: we keep them busy, busy, busy here people. Then of 829 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: course Alison Bresnik, who always sticks the landing on social media, 830 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: a little gymnastics Jarkin, Thanks Gianna, Emily Bena over at 831 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: Katie Currect Media. And I would like to say thank 832 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: you to BETHA. Moas, my assistant, who was here accompanying 833 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: us on our interview today and who helps me out 834 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,279 Speaker 1: in so many ways every day. And a big thank 835 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,320 Speaker 1: you to Danny Meyer and the team at Union Square 836 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,240 Speaker 1: Cafe for letting me invade their fine establishment to tape 837 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,799 Speaker 1: this episode. Brian and I are the show's executive producers, 838 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: Mark Phillips wrote our theme music, and remember you can 839 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 1: email us with your guest ideas, questions and feedback at 840 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: comments at current podcast dot com or leave us a 841 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: voicemail at nine to nine to four four six three seven. 842 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: Please keep it clean. People. Find Brian on Twitter at 843 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: Goldsmith b and you can find me if you search 844 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: Katie Curic on just about every social media platform. Now, 845 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: we'll be back in two weeks for our year end 846 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: episode with tennis champ Maria Sharapova. In the meantime, enjoy 847 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,520 Speaker 1: the winter solstice. I'll talk to you when the days 848 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: are getting longer again. Thanks so much for listening, and 849 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: I will tell Brian you all said hey,