Speaker 1: I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley, and this is
Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal. First off, we'd like to sincerely thank you
Speaker 1: all for listening to Sacred Scandal. A lot of you
Speaker 1: not only invested time, but became emotionally invested in this
Speaker 1: case as well. You've written your concerns about Mike, about Ukraine,
Speaker 1: about us when we were there. You were even worried
Speaker 1: about denn As, our producer, going up that hill. We
Speaker 1: were humbled by your involvement. During the run of this season.
Speaker 1: We received tons of emails with great questions, really great questions,
Speaker 1: questions that have gotten us thinking too. We were touched
Speaker 1: by seeing how our listeners were following us side by
Speaker 1: side on this case each step of the way. In
Speaker 1: this bonus episode, our listeners take them my can get
Speaker 1: to ask us questions. We'll also be hearing from the
Speaker 1: friends we made in Ukraine who are going through unimaginably
Speaker 1: trying times right now, and we'll share with you some
Speaker 1: of our favorite anecdotes and stories that we didn't get
Speaker 1: to share with you during the season. Congratulations, ladies, you
Speaker 1: made an amazing podcast with an almost unbelievable story. If
Speaker 1: it hadn't been told. Now, I'm afraid it never would
Speaker 1: be told. So we're all eternally grateful. Thank you. We
Speaker 1: are beyond moved to receive messages like this. Something our listener,
Speaker 1: Jesse Cohen says might be true if we hadn't told
Speaker 1: the story when we told it, could we have told
Speaker 1: it at all? With the war in Ukraine and Father
Speaker 1: one getting older, we may never have been able to
Speaker 1: sit atop that hill for three hours and speak to him.
Speaker 1: Had we waited only two more months, We feel that,
Speaker 1: I mean was fundamental to telling this story. We were
Speaker 1: incredibly lucky. Had we done this as a documentary fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago like we first set out to do, would
Speaker 1: Father Went have been ready to speak. One of our listeners, Victoria,
Speaker 1: got us thinking, this is Victoria, and my question is,
Speaker 1: how did you Convince Went to talk to you. Well,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. That was one of the scariest
Speaker 1: moments I think in my life, pulling over in that
Speaker 1: car off the side of the road and Petro handed
Speaker 1: him the phone, and I think the first thing I
Speaker 1: said was this is not a complete story without you.
Speaker 1: And I think how I got them first to open
Speaker 1: up was reminiscing about old holy Cross experiences and memories
Speaker 1: and you know, the good things that I remembered from
Speaker 1: the school, and that got him to soften up a
Speaker 1: little bit with me. And then it was just like,
Speaker 1: so I'm here, I'm in Ukraine to hear you, to
Speaker 1: hear your voice. And I think at that point he
Speaker 1: felt some sort of sense of responsibility. I think it
Speaker 1: was the fact that I said, the only person speaking
Speaker 1: for holy Cross has been Mehil you know, I think
Speaker 1: that did it. Not All of your questions had answers
Speaker 1: that were cut and dry. Why do Father Damon and
Speaker 1: Basketball work at a supermarket? I'm confused. If they own
Speaker 1: property in a hospital in Ukraine, why do they need
Speaker 1: to send money to win? Do they rent out the hospital? Well,
Speaker 1: Petro actually mentioned that they have a lot of debt
Speaker 1: because the hospital was so expensive to build and the
Speaker 1: equipment they bought, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars
Speaker 1: of MRI machines, cat scan machines. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: maintenance involved. And I think because the hospital kind of
Speaker 1: failed for them, they owe all this money. And and
Speaker 1: I guess in Ukraine, uh, it's harder to make a living,
Speaker 1: especially right now. So I think that's why Father Damon
Speaker 1: and the steal work at a supermarket in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: and that's how they help out with with expenses. I
Speaker 1: do find it very strange, to be honest, that two
Speaker 1: months have to work on a supermarket, because usually like
Speaker 1: the monastery maintained to you, but I guess they don't
Speaker 1: really have another way to make money. Well, they don't
Speaker 1: have followers, and they don't have you know, mass or donations,
Speaker 1: but also school. So and ask your your question is
Speaker 1: a great one, and we we originally don't have a
Speaker 1: clear answer. We are stumped. Other questions were questions we'd
Speaker 1: already asked ourselves and the attorneys, but it never seemed
Speaker 1: like anyone really ever knew the answer. Hi, Melanie and Paula.
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you asked, why did Petro get
Speaker 1: adopted by Father Went? And was it by Petro's choice?
Speaker 1: Hi Mickey, thank you very question. UM. I think that um,
Speaker 1: it was definitely the Father Went idea, and Petro agreed.
Speaker 1: Not even the investigators really knew the answer to this question.
Speaker 1: At first, the assumption was that there was something to
Speaker 1: do with their immigration status, and that being UM a
Speaker 1: legal son of one of these priests would make it
Speaker 1: easier for them to become a citizen. But gay Levine
Speaker 1: even said she asked immigration and they said that wasn't
Speaker 1: the case, that they were already on student visas, and
Speaker 1: that that wouldn't really have made a difference. Um. I
Speaker 1: guess the other theory was inheritance, if father wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure if anything happened to him, that Petro would
Speaker 1: inherit whatever they had. But what's really strange is that
Speaker 1: they took about poverties. So a monkey isn't supposed to own,
Speaker 1: you know, property or or have you know, assets, or
Speaker 1: or an estate. Your concerns and questions about Mike always
Speaker 1: moved us, and we told them how much people out
Speaker 1: there wondered about him. One question in particular, we're really
Speaker 1: happy to be able to answer. Mike said he brought
Speaker 1: the knife because he would cut himself. I was wondering
Speaker 1: if he continued to do that. The answer is no, Uh,
Speaker 1: Mike does not cut himself anymore. Now he has a
Speaker 1: different way to let out his emotions, and we were
Speaker 1: definitely so happy to see it. He writes he writes
Speaker 1: short stories. Um so whenever he feels anything that's you know,
Speaker 1: negative or things like that. You can sometimes hear it
Speaker 1: in the story right now, like some of his subject matters.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a little dark, a little dark. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: for me, it just feels like that's his new outlet
Speaker 1: and it's so much healthier. And yeah, he sends every
Speaker 1: single story to us, and we really want to share
Speaker 1: it with everybody. Uh soon, we want to. He wants
Speaker 1: us to share the stories with you guys too. And
Speaker 1: I just remember even from the last visit to seeing
Speaker 1: his arm like it's obviously he's been a cutter for years,
Speaker 1: you know, but they're healed and it looks like it's
Speaker 1: been Yeah, they're just heed for years, very scarred. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Up next, we take a look at a question that
Speaker 1: more than one of you had. Hey, Paula and Melanie,
Speaker 1: big fan of the podcast, loving it. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for taking questions. I was curious if while in
Speaker 1: the Ukraine you had a chance to visit or speak
Speaker 1: with any of the other Monastic candidates, or if they
Speaker 1: have spoken at all since the original investigation. Yosip declined
Speaker 1: on I sent him on WhatsApp message he said not interested.
Speaker 1: He was very polite though and like he said, I'd
Speaker 1: rather be keeping my experience as at holy Cross private
Speaker 1: or yeah. Ivan never responded, neither did Basile. Neither did.
Speaker 1: We found Basile on Facebook and we sent him a
Speaker 1: few messages and nothing friend requests. And then Sasha. There's
Speaker 1: just we can never find Sasha ever. Ever, there's just
Speaker 1: no trace of him on the internet. The only one,
Speaker 1: I mean, we we did talk to Eliah. Um Elia
Speaker 1: has been really, really helpful and its perspective has changed
Speaker 1: a lot throughout the years. And and Petro obviously, and
Speaker 1: this next one is a great question. And when we've
Speaker 1: wondered about ourselves, I'm wondering if sister Michelle was aware
Speaker 1: of any of the alleged abuse. Well, we asked Mike directly,
Speaker 1: because that was always a theory in our minds that
Speaker 1: maybe that would explain why he killed sister Michelle, was
Speaker 1: that she knew about the abuse and didn't do anything
Speaker 1: to protect him. There was another theory, the wilder one
Speaker 1: back then, that was that sister Michell knew about the abuse,
Speaker 1: she was going to say something, she was going to
Speaker 1: report it, and then father went like put Mike up
Speaker 1: for it and like made him kill her, which is crazy.
Speaker 1: That's pretty definitely not true. Definitely not true. I think
Speaker 1: Also they put Sister Michelle really really far away. The
Speaker 1: convent was on the other side of the football fields
Speaker 1: and all of that, right, so if something was going on,
Speaker 1: she probably wouldn't have seen it and non nobody would
Speaker 1: have shared it with her. Yeah, she wasn't the confidante
Speaker 1: my person were Mike would feel comfortable talking to her
Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff, or or any of them
Speaker 1: in asked the candidates, I don't think. When we asked
Speaker 1: Mike about this, he said he didn't think Sister Michelle
Speaker 1: knew about the abuse. He said he didn't see her
Speaker 1: witness anything, and he certainly didn't talk to her about it.
Speaker 1: Another question we got from a listener was more about
Speaker 1: my own experience at holy Cross. They wanted to know
Speaker 1: what it was like to go to a school run
Speaker 1: by father went and Father Damien. And it's an interesting
Speaker 1: question because I started to think, what was it like
Speaker 1: for real, every day to day to day. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that stood out to me was confession,
Speaker 1: for example, like in a Catholic school. I don't know
Speaker 1: about other Catholic schools, but having to do confession with
Speaker 1: your own principle, or with someone that's in charge of
Speaker 1: your discipline, Like, how can you confess, for example, that
Speaker 1: you cheated on a test or that you did something
Speaker 1: like that. So, for example, my confessions were never very
Speaker 1: very thorough because they were a lot of things that
Speaker 1: you know, I'd have to leave out for the sake
Speaker 1: of me staying in the school. I don't know if
Speaker 1: there would have been That is very strange. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is very strange. And you know, there was a line,
Speaker 1: there was a line. It was a longer line to
Speaker 1: confess with father went That's what a lot of students remembered.
Speaker 1: And then father Dami would also confess people, and nobody
Speaker 1: wanted to confess with him. Um, why do you think that,
Speaker 1: I don't know, just the vibe, like kind of the
Speaker 1: creepy vibe that a lot of people described. Um, and yeah,
Speaker 1: they were super intimidating. And you know, I felt like
Speaker 1: that guy was the pope or like similar, because I
Speaker 1: was young, and because my parents respected him, and all
Speaker 1: the parents respected him, and you know, he was just
Speaker 1: important looking. And when he passed by, floating down the
Speaker 1: aisles the hallways, oh my god, people would just make way,
Speaker 1: you know, almost bowing, just intimidated. The day the war
Speaker 1: started in Ukraine, our listeners started writing to us immediately
Speaker 1: after a break. We'll be addressing those concerns. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Sacred Scandal. I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley.
Speaker 1: At the start of this project, we were already warned
Speaker 1: that it was only a matter of time before the
Speaker 1: Russians invaded this beautiful country. But now having just been
Speaker 1: there and experiencing that amazing place firsthand, this war hits hard.
Speaker 1: And since we took you all on our journey to
Speaker 1: Ukraine for this podcast, it seems like a lot of
Speaker 1: you feel just like we do. Here's another listener. This
Speaker 1: is Chas Bayfield from Tasmania, Australia. I'd love to know
Speaker 1: whether you've been in touch with any of the people
Speaker 1: in the Ukraine who feature in your podcasts and whether
Speaker 1: they're a k because I'm sure a lot of your
Speaker 1: listeners are very concerned for them. Our friends in Ukraine
Speaker 1: have been sending us messages, so we'll let them answer
Speaker 1: for themselves. Here's Elia Hertzock. The man asked the candidate
Speaker 1: that we're sure you know by now my family have
Speaker 1: been affected by the war which was started by Pudgin.
Speaker 1: I have my business in Czech Republic, so when Russians
Speaker 1: started bombing our cities, I was out of Ukraine as usual.
Speaker 1: On the second day, after the military troops entered, I
Speaker 1: decided that my family has to leave Ukraine and joined
Speaker 1: me here. So now we are together at our home
Speaker 1: in Czech Republic. Also, some of my friends and acquaintances,
Speaker 1: after they have been sent their families, wives and children
Speaker 1: to safe places, went to fight. Even as a soldiers,
Speaker 1: all of us are actually ready to stand against the
Speaker 1: killers from Russia. Regarding my plan for the future, for
Speaker 1: now to stay outside to f create. I'm helping here
Speaker 1: our people, women and children who had run away from
Speaker 1: war to find their shelter here and helping them with
Speaker 1: registration of all necessary documents to stay, transport or anything else.
Speaker 1: We are gathering humanitarian aid and sending it to my country.
Speaker 1: And I believe that this war will be stopped and
Speaker 1: not on the stop, but we will be in against
Speaker 1: this evolves from Russia and me and my family and
Speaker 1: other families will be able to come back to peaceful
Speaker 1: Ukrainian nearest future. That's what we want. Julia, our translator
Speaker 1: who we immediately became close friends with and who made
Speaker 1: every interaction we had in Ukraine. So Steamless also sent
Speaker 1: us an update. My name is Julia and I'm Ukrainian.
Speaker 1: And the recent events and the bar was truly truly
Speaker 1: heartbreaking and terrifying. Every morning looks like waking up and
Speaker 1: checking the news, seeing what cities were bombed, seeing who
Speaker 1: survived died, and that's something really really, um really heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: We live in the most western part of Ukraine, so
Speaker 1: we were lucky enough not to get bombed, but I
Speaker 1: can't say the same about so many places. We have
Speaker 1: family all over Ukraine. Some live in the occupied territories,
Speaker 1: some are fighting at war, some are getting bombed and
Speaker 1: just praying every day to survive, to survive, just one
Speaker 1: day at a time. My region is receiving many, many
Speaker 1: refugees and theyre arrived like fifty people. And that's our
Speaker 1: city is one hundred thousand people. Um, many many people
Speaker 1: are coming. Just yesterday we received one thousand kids who
Speaker 1: were evacuated without their parents because there wasn't just an
Speaker 1: opportunity like this. But on the better side, if I
Speaker 1: can say that with all its happening, our people are
Speaker 1: as united as as possible, and it's truly truly breast
Speaker 1: taken to see how so many people are connecting and
Speaker 1: helping each other. So yeah, glory to Ukraine. We also
Speaker 1: wanted to know how Mike was feeling about this whole
Speaker 1: thing and if he had heard from his parents. Actually
Speaker 1: got a videogram and emails for our parents and what
Speaker 1: are they saying, how are they what's their their mood?
Speaker 1: My parents are all right, of course, because they are
Speaker 1: really worried about, you know, everything that's going on in
Speaker 1: it's really difficult times right now that they are going
Speaker 1: around in Ukraine, and it's really sad because as you
Speaker 1: can see on the news, you can see a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of people displays, a lot of people
Speaker 1: are dead, a lot of you know, children are dead.
Speaker 1: And do you think Bert Wurkovina Bistra going to be
Speaker 1: safe for now? You know, you know nothing, nothing for certain,
Speaker 1: but you know, in my my town is really one
Speaker 1: of Sisi's places right now because it's located far in
Speaker 1: the west, right on border with this point. You know
Speaker 1: you've been in my town, so you know you can
Speaker 1: see from my house you can see the point, so
Speaker 1: it would be really easy for your parents to kind
Speaker 1: of go over the border if they need to in
Speaker 1: the last minute sort of emergency. Right, yeah, they would
Speaker 1: be most I'm sure. I'm sure the Polish would open up.
Speaker 1: Remember back then in the nineties we had you know,
Speaker 1: reservoir Polish border and guys, you think those very personal,
Speaker 1: you know, go and just watch all the border, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure you know, uh yeah, right now Poland
Speaker 1: is really good, you know the claim right now, they're
Speaker 1: really helpful. We have been in constant contact with Ria
Speaker 1: and Yuriko Fell and we thought we'd read you one
Speaker 1: of the messages that they sent us. Hello, Paula and Melanie.
Speaker 1: We thank god all is quiet and that there is
Speaker 1: no shelling. We live far from the border of Russia
Speaker 1: and Belarus. Many refugees flee from the war through our
Speaker 1: Transcarpathia region. Terrible battles continue and keep all Ukrainians think
Speaker 1: the countries that help us. When we saw the co Fells,
Speaker 1: we talked to them for hours and it's crazy to
Speaker 1: think only a few minutes made it into the show.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of stuff like that that didn't
Speaker 1: make it. In coming up after the break we'll be
Speaker 1: sharing some tape that didn't make it into the show.
Speaker 1: Stay with us, m Welcome back to Sacred Scandal. I'm
Speaker 1: Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley. For the sake of
Speaker 1: the story and keeping things concise, we had to leave
Speaker 1: out a lot of tape that we thought our listeners
Speaker 1: might find interesting. So in this last segment, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be playing some of that tape for you. During our
Speaker 1: trip to Ukraine, we met up with Dr Marianna to Korshinska,
Speaker 1: a Ukrainian doctor who was hired by Mike's defense team
Speaker 1: to evaluate him. She spent time with Maria and Yuriko
Speaker 1: felt as part of her evaluation, and she gave us
Speaker 1: some great cultural perspective we hadn't heard before. The situation
Speaker 1: with his father was very bad for him. Yes, so
Speaker 1: he told that he wanted to escape from from that
Speaker 1: family as quickly as possible. And this possibility to go
Speaker 1: to this school or something like that. He really wanted
Speaker 1: to be a priest, even named a monk, and it
Speaker 1: was for him, it was very serious and for our people.
Speaker 1: You have to understand, America, it was something amazing. So
Speaker 1: some heaven, yes, so to get there. It was such
Speaker 1: a big luck, and I'm sure for him it was
Speaker 1: like he'll be there, he will become a priest and
Speaker 1: everything will be We'll be just perfect. Here it was
Speaker 1: a hell and there will be a heaven. Yes, and
Speaker 1: it was it was not only for him like that,
Speaker 1: it all for mostly for all of us. Yes, So
Speaker 1: it was like that America is something so here I
Speaker 1: went to America, Yes, and our thing was destroyed. We've
Speaker 1: always asked ourselves how Maria and Yurik fell. Never suspected
Speaker 1: Mike might be being abused, even when he and father
Speaker 1: Damien came to visit and would share a bed with
Speaker 1: their son in their home. You have also to understand
Speaker 1: such things has happened there. In our mind something absolutely impossible,
Speaker 1: believe me, homosexuality here it's it's maybe now. It is
Speaker 1: more like it is possible to be in our time.
Speaker 1: In his time, it was something like absolutely not impossible
Speaker 1: to be, and especially am a priest's it's absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 1: So he was something destroyed in him, something broke inside him,
Speaker 1: for sure, it was psychologically. It was absolutely Going to
Speaker 1: Ukraine was truly one of the most intense trips of
Speaker 1: our lives. And one we will never forget. But speaking
Speaker 1: of trips, remember Art Nanny, the lead detective working in
Speaker 1: the murder investigation, Well, he was on a trip to
Speaker 1: Vegas ones and told us the story. We found pretty strange,
Speaker 1: so described brought me a gift to go to Vegas.
Speaker 1: But who did I run into? I ran into Petra
Speaker 1: and one of the other monks. They were in Vegas
Speaker 1: airport and Petra came up to me and said your name,
Speaker 1: I said, ye, and you introduced himselves and said, what
Speaker 1: do you guys are doing over here? They're over there
Speaker 1: game a matter of fact, I think he was sitting
Speaker 1: on a slot machine. I returned to No. Six, So
Speaker 1: it was almost five years after the fact. But I'm
Speaker 1: looking at them that they were supposed to be monks,
Speaker 1: so and they're going to Vegas. What happens the veggest
Speaker 1: days in Vegas? But but I was It was just
Speaker 1: kind of blew my mind that I have the monks
Speaker 1: in Vegas, you know. And there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 1: conversations because I didn't really care for pet or anyways.
Speaker 1: I believe he lied to me from the get go,
Speaker 1: and he could have been lied to me in them
Speaker 1: particular point too. We found this story so odd we
Speaker 1: decided to ask Father Lou, the priest and canon law expert,
Speaker 1: who you heard from an episode seven, his opinion on
Speaker 1: monks taking trips and gambling. Okay, so yeah, even monks
Speaker 1: there allowed to go on vacations. They might have set
Speaker 1: places where you know, the monks go, but because you
Speaker 1: become a monk, you don't cease to becoming human being.
Speaker 1: All right, So when I want to go on vacation,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm a master diver. All of my vacations
Speaker 1: were diving vacations. I'd go to the Caribbean, I'd go
Speaker 1: you know, the Pacific, I'd go diving. They were very,
Speaker 1: very expensive. If I wanted to go on vacation, that's fine.
Speaker 1: Cannon law allowed me a month's vacation a year, but
Speaker 1: I had to pay for it. You know, the monks
Speaker 1: in the monastery, are they entitled the vacation, absolutely, but
Speaker 1: the monastery would have to pay for it. And it's
Speaker 1: always with the understanding that what one did on vacation
Speaker 1: was at least not antithetical to religious life. So I
Speaker 1: could go on vacation and go diving. I could go
Speaker 1: on vacation and maybe do some recreational gambling where it
Speaker 1: was legal. But I couldn't go on vacation and working
Speaker 1: an abortion clinic, all right. Or I couldn't go on
Speaker 1: vacation and involve myself in you know, the back room
Speaker 1: poker part or and gamble in a place that was
Speaker 1: going to be rated by the vice squad. But how
Speaker 1: do you reconcile I guess, uh, the vowel of poverty
Speaker 1: with gambling or going to Vegas or staying at a
Speaker 1: nice hotel, for example. Well, you know, poverty means I
Speaker 1: don't own anything. It doesn't mean that I have to
Speaker 1: live a bereft life. If I take a vil poverty,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I have to live in a hovel
Speaker 1: and wear underwear with holes in it. I'm allowed a
Speaker 1: basic standard of life that it's commensurate with human dignity.
Speaker 1: Staying in a nice hotel in Las Vegas. You know
Speaker 1: where's that on the scale? Recreational gambling in Las Vegas
Speaker 1: is legal. It's not immoral, all right, We'll shoot a
Speaker 1: monk gamble. I don't know, but I'm a Diosisan priest
Speaker 1: and I used to go to Las Vegas. But that
Speaker 1: was my money. Okay. You know, if I had a
Speaker 1: bad run at the tables, then I didn't buy cigarettes
Speaker 1: the next month, whereas the monk is is drawing from
Speaker 1: the common assets, and therefore there's got to be another
Speaker 1: like level of awareness of his use. So am I
Speaker 1: gonna sit in judgment as someone who goes to Las
Speaker 1: Vegas and stays in a decent hotel. Well, no, all right,
Speaker 1: he didn't do anything illegal, He didn't do anything immoral
Speaker 1: on the face of it, and just staying in a
Speaker 1: nice room, there's nothing scandalous about that depends on the
Speaker 1: local law and the local monastery. I control my finances.
Speaker 1: Those who belong to religious orders and take the vow
Speaker 1: of poverty do not. I mean, if guy's got a
Speaker 1: roll of quarters and goes to a quarter machine and
Speaker 1: feeds them in one at a time, you know he
Speaker 1: spent what he would have spent on renting a DVD.
Speaker 1: But if I see a monk sitting at a dollar
Speaker 1: machine and he's putting five dollars at a time in
Speaker 1: pulling that arm sixty times an hour. At five dollars
Speaker 1: a time, it's three hundred bucks an hour, and he
Speaker 1: was at that machine for four hours, I would think
Speaker 1: to myself, is this the best use of your monastery's assets.
Speaker 1: During the show, we heard a lot from a Holy
Speaker 1: Cross parent, Marietta Fernandez. I've kept in touch with her
Speaker 1: since our interview, and she's been one of the sweetest
Speaker 1: and warmest people we've ever met. And she seemed to
Speaker 1: know Sister Michelle better than anyone we talked to from
Speaker 1: Holy Cross. Here's the story she told us about her
Speaker 1: that really paints a picture of who she was. One
Speaker 1: day when we were um, we were walking through the
Speaker 1: halls and we were talking. We were walking towards the
Speaker 1: chapel area. I loved to go out there and just
Speaker 1: look at the beautiful painting outside the murals. And she
Speaker 1: had to fill out some paperwork that she told me
Speaker 1: that she was going to go get it and bring
Speaker 1: it to me, you know. And I was waiting for
Speaker 1: her in that area and she was coming back and
Speaker 1: she had a smile on her face, and I said, so,
Speaker 1: what's so funny. What are you smiling about? And she said, no,
Speaker 1: I'm happy because some of the linen that I wanted
Speaker 1: to lay out for the Sunday service came out really well.
Speaker 1: It ironed out really well, I go, so that makes
Speaker 1: you happy, and she she laughed and she said, yes,
Speaker 1: that makes me very happy. It makes me happy when
Speaker 1: I am in the apple and I am preparing for services.
Speaker 1: It's a feeling of accomplishment. And it was almost like
Speaker 1: gratitude that she was grateful that she could do that.
Speaker 1: I felt that, I felt that coming across very clear,
Speaker 1: that she was grateful. You know, she was happy. The
Speaker 1: linen came out great. A few months ago, we had
Speaker 1: the chance to speak with Ukrainian priest father Taras, who
Speaker 1: was flown to Miami all the way from trans Carpathia
Speaker 1: to see Mike back in two thousand one. Okay, my
Speaker 1: name is Taraslowska. I am a priest from Ukraine Transcarpasia.
Speaker 1: Right now I am helping here in the United States
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania Arisbon's and bisont In Catholic Church. How did
Speaker 1: you How did you get connected with with me Helo Kofel?
Speaker 1: Did you know them from back in Ukraine? Not really.
Speaker 1: I was sent by my bishop and he asked me
Speaker 1: if I can travel and here in his confession and
Speaker 1: bring him the Holy Communion. So what's what I did?
Speaker 1: So I was at him in prison. What were your
Speaker 1: impressions of Milo when you first met him? Well, I
Speaker 1: feel sorry for him, and so, yeah, I confessed him.
Speaker 1: I cannot talk about the confession, but you know, he
Speaker 1: is a nice looking guy. I feel sorry, you know,
Speaker 1: and when I hear that they give him twenty five
Speaker 1: years or whatever, I feel sorry. So let me ask
Speaker 1: you why why did you need to do this confession
Speaker 1: with him? Wouldn't it have been father went job as
Speaker 1: as his priest? Probably? Yeah? But I don't know why
Speaker 1: why we should ask me to do this? And you
Speaker 1: know I was, I was open to do this. Isn't
Speaker 1: it part of being a priest kind of uh? Mainly
Speaker 1: for giving somebody for their since, even if it's murder,
Speaker 1: even if it's the worst thing you can possibly imagine.
Speaker 1: Do you think that it would have been basically his
Speaker 1: his job or it would have been that the right
Speaker 1: thing to do for him to at least go visit
Speaker 1: him and try to understand what happened? Probably? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, is fourteen years old is old enough
Speaker 1: to make them a monk? Or were the circumstances of
Speaker 1: poverty or you know, everything that they were going through
Speaker 1: in Ukraine kind of influenced them to come. What are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on the age that these boys were coming.
Speaker 1: I think they was too young. My country be considered
Speaker 1: that you are adults having eighteen year us under eighteen,
Speaker 1: you are under jurisdiction or whatever your parents. So I
Speaker 1: presume the parents killed the permission, and then the priests
Speaker 1: and then the young guys. You know, they hear America
Speaker 1: I said end of the world, and that's why they decided.
Speaker 1: Some of these boys that were monastic candidates, you know,
Speaker 1: they would travel for these trips, and they would say
Speaker 1: that each priest would sleep in the same bed with
Speaker 1: one of the monastics. Right, is that normal just to
Speaker 1: save money and things like that. That's completely strange for
Speaker 1: me and unusual. Usually each monk or each priest their
Speaker 1: own separately. Do you think God forgave me halo for
Speaker 1: what he did? I know that God is so merciful
Speaker 1: that he is forgiving all the sins. His love is
Speaker 1: so high and so deep that we are not able
Speaker 1: to do so many sins or so big or so
Speaker 1: terrible sins that God will be not able to forgive us.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we have to do sins, but
Speaker 1: we have to know this that God is. His love
Speaker 1: is like ocean, no end. That's why we are called
Speaker 1: to respond to his love and to love him. We
Speaker 1: could keep talking about this case for another decade, and
Speaker 1: we probably will. This podcast may have ended, but our
Speaker 1: bond Mike will always be there. We'll continue to visit,
Speaker 1: will continue to write and chat on the phone. We
Speaker 1: know a lot of you have expressed how much you
Speaker 1: care about the people in this story, and for that
Speaker 1: we thank you. Having your support gave us the confidence
Speaker 1: to keep moving forward. So stay connected to us via
Speaker 1: social media and email. If you want to hear more
Speaker 1: about Mike, read has short stories and get more updates
Speaker 1: on the people we've all come to care about in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Although Sacred Scandal the show didn't have the ending we
Speaker 1: hoped for, this story is not over for us and
Speaker 1: we will continue to pursue the truth. Thank you all again,
Speaker 1: from the bottom of our hearts. This has been Sacred Scandal.
Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal is a production of Exile Content Studio and
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radios mikel Dua podcast network. Sacred
Speaker 1: Scandal was created and produced by Melanie Bartley and me
Speaker 1: Paula Barrows, our senior producer is Dennis Funk of Written
Speaker 1: and Air. The executive producers are Rose Red and Nando Villa.
Speaker 1: Additional production by Alvaro Sespedes. Our production assistant is Immani Leonard.
Speaker 1: Original music and final mixing by Patrick Hart, and special
Speaker 1: thanks on this episode to Brian Robertson and Michael Martone
Speaker 1: and a huge, huge thank you to our families. If
Speaker 1: you'd like to reach out, email us at hello at
Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal podcast dot com, and you can follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Sacred Scandal