1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley, and this is 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal. First off, we'd like to sincerely thank you 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: all for listening to Sacred Scandal. A lot of you 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: not only invested time, but became emotionally invested in this 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: case as well. You've written your concerns about Mike, about Ukraine, 6 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: about us when we were there. You were even worried 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: about denn As, our producer, going up that hill. We 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: were humbled by your involvement. During the run of this season. 9 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: We received tons of emails with great questions, really great questions, 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: questions that have gotten us thinking too. We were touched 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: by seeing how our listeners were following us side by 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: side on this case each step of the way. In 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: this bonus episode, our listeners take them my can get 14 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: to ask us questions. We'll also be hearing from the 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: friends we made in Ukraine who are going through unimaginably 16 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: trying times right now, and we'll share with you some 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: of our favorite anecdotes and stories that we didn't get 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: to share with you during the season. Congratulations, ladies, you 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: made an amazing podcast with an almost unbelievable story. If 20 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: it hadn't been told. Now, I'm afraid it never would 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: be told. So we're all eternally grateful. Thank you. We 22 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: are beyond moved to receive messages like this. Something our listener, 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: Jesse Cohen says might be true if we hadn't told 24 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: the story when we told it, could we have told 25 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: it at all? With the war in Ukraine and Father 26 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: one getting older, we may never have been able to 27 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: sit atop that hill for three hours and speak to him. 28 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Had we waited only two more months, We feel that, 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: I mean was fundamental to telling this story. We were 30 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: incredibly lucky. Had we done this as a documentary fifteen 31 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: years ago like we first set out to do, would 32 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: Father Went have been ready to speak. One of our listeners, Victoria, 33 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: got us thinking, this is Victoria, and my question is, 34 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: how did you Convince Went to talk to you. Well, 35 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: that's a good question. That was one of the scariest 36 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: moments I think in my life, pulling over in that 37 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: car off the side of the road and Petro handed 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: him the phone, and I think the first thing I 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: said was this is not a complete story without you. 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: And I think how I got them first to open 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: up was reminiscing about old holy Cross experiences and memories 42 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: and you know, the good things that I remembered from 43 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: the school, and that got him to soften up a 44 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: little bit with me. And then it was just like, 45 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: so I'm here, I'm in Ukraine to hear you, to 46 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,679 Speaker 1: hear your voice. And I think at that point he 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: felt some sort of sense of responsibility. I think it 48 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: was the fact that I said, the only person speaking 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: for holy Cross has been Mehil you know, I think 50 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: that did it. Not All of your questions had answers 51 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: that were cut and dry. Why do Father Damon and 52 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: Basketball work at a supermarket? I'm confused. If they own 53 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: property in a hospital in Ukraine, why do they need 54 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: to send money to win? Do they rent out the hospital? Well, 55 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: Petro actually mentioned that they have a lot of debt 56 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: because the hospital was so expensive to build and the 57 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: equipment they bought, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars 58 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: of MRI machines, cat scan machines. There's a lot of 59 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: maintenance involved. And I think because the hospital kind of 60 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: failed for them, they owe all this money. And and 61 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: I guess in Ukraine, uh, it's harder to make a living, 62 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: especially right now. So I think that's why Father Damon 63 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: and the steal work at a supermarket in North Carolina, 64 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: and that's how they help out with with expenses. I 65 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: do find it very strange, to be honest, that two 66 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: months have to work on a supermarket, because usually like 67 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: the monastery maintained to you, but I guess they don't 68 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: really have another way to make money. Well, they don't 69 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: have followers, and they don't have you know, mass or donations, 70 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: but also school. So and ask your your question is 71 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: a great one, and we we originally don't have a 72 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: clear answer. We are stumped. Other questions were questions we'd 73 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: already asked ourselves and the attorneys, but it never seemed 74 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: like anyone really ever knew the answer. Hi, Melanie and Paula. 75 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you asked, why did Petro get 76 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: adopted by Father Went? And was it by Petro's choice? 77 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: Hi Mickey, thank you very question. UM. I think that um, 78 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: it was definitely the Father Went idea, and Petro agreed. 79 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: Not even the investigators really knew the answer to this question. 80 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: At first, the assumption was that there was something to 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: do with their immigration status, and that being UM a 82 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: legal son of one of these priests would make it 83 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: easier for them to become a citizen. But gay Levine 84 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: even said she asked immigration and they said that wasn't 85 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: the case, that they were already on student visas, and 86 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: that that wouldn't really have made a difference. Um. I 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: guess the other theory was inheritance, if father wanted to 88 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: make sure if anything happened to him, that Petro would 89 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: inherit whatever they had. But what's really strange is that 90 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: they took about poverties. So a monkey isn't supposed to own, 91 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, property or or have you know, assets, or 92 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: or an estate. Your concerns and questions about Mike always 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: moved us, and we told them how much people out 94 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: there wondered about him. One question in particular, we're really 95 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: happy to be able to answer. Mike said he brought 96 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: the knife because he would cut himself. I was wondering 97 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: if he continued to do that. The answer is no, Uh, 98 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: Mike does not cut himself anymore. Now he has a 99 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: different way to let out his emotions, and we were 100 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: definitely so happy to see it. He writes he writes 101 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: short stories. Um so whenever he feels anything that's you know, 102 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: negative or things like that. You can sometimes hear it 103 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: in the story right now, like some of his subject matters. 104 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a little dark, a little dark. Yeah, but 105 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: for me, it just feels like that's his new outlet 106 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: and it's so much healthier. And yeah, he sends every 107 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: single story to us, and we really want to share 108 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: it with everybody. Uh soon, we want to. He wants 109 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: us to share the stories with you guys too. And 110 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: I just remember even from the last visit to seeing 111 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: his arm like it's obviously he's been a cutter for years, 112 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, but they're healed and it looks like it's 113 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: been Yeah, they're just heed for years, very scarred. Yeah. 114 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: Up next, we take a look at a question that 115 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: more than one of you had. Hey, Paula and Melanie, 116 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: big fan of the podcast, loving it. Thank you so 117 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: much for taking questions. I was curious if while in 118 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: the Ukraine you had a chance to visit or speak 119 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: with any of the other Monastic candidates, or if they 120 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: have spoken at all since the original investigation. Yosip declined 121 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: on I sent him on WhatsApp message he said not interested. 122 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: He was very polite though and like he said, I'd 123 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: rather be keeping my experience as at holy Cross private 124 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: or yeah. Ivan never responded, neither did Basile. Neither did. 125 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: We found Basile on Facebook and we sent him a 126 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: few messages and nothing friend requests. And then Sasha. There's 127 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: just we can never find Sasha ever. Ever, there's just 128 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: no trace of him on the internet. The only one, 129 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: I mean, we we did talk to Eliah. Um Elia 130 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: has been really, really helpful and its perspective has changed 131 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: a lot throughout the years. And and Petro obviously, and 132 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: this next one is a great question. And when we've 133 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: wondered about ourselves, I'm wondering if sister Michelle was aware 134 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: of any of the alleged abuse. Well, we asked Mike directly, 135 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: because that was always a theory in our minds that 136 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: maybe that would explain why he killed sister Michelle, was 137 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: that she knew about the abuse and didn't do anything 138 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: to protect him. There was another theory, the wilder one 139 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: back then, that was that sister Michell knew about the abuse, 140 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,599 Speaker 1: she was going to say something, she was going to 141 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: report it, and then father went like put Mike up 142 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: for it and like made him kill her, which is crazy. 143 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: That's pretty definitely not true. Definitely not true. I think 144 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: Also they put Sister Michelle really really far away. The 145 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: convent was on the other side of the football fields 146 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: and all of that, right, so if something was going on, 147 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: she probably wouldn't have seen it and non nobody would 148 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: have shared it with her. Yeah, she wasn't the confidante 149 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: my person were Mike would feel comfortable talking to her 150 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff, or or any of them 151 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: in asked the candidates, I don't think. When we asked 152 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: Mike about this, he said he didn't think Sister Michelle 153 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: knew about the abuse. He said he didn't see her 154 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: witness anything, and he certainly didn't talk to her about it. 155 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: Another question we got from a listener was more about 156 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: my own experience at holy Cross. They wanted to know 157 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: what it was like to go to a school run 158 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: by father went and Father Damien. And it's an interesting 159 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: question because I started to think, what was it like 160 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: for real, every day to day to day. And one 161 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: of the things that stood out to me was confession, 162 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: for example, like in a Catholic school. I don't know 163 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: about other Catholic schools, but having to do confession with 164 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: your own principle, or with someone that's in charge of 165 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: your discipline, Like, how can you confess, for example, that 166 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: you cheated on a test or that you did something 167 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: like that. So, for example, my confessions were never very 168 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: very thorough because they were a lot of things that 169 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, I'd have to leave out for the sake 170 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: of me staying in the school. I don't know if 171 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: there would have been That is very strange. Yeah, it 172 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: is very strange. And you know, there was a line, 173 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: there was a line. It was a longer line to 174 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: confess with father went That's what a lot of students remembered. 175 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: And then father Dami would also confess people, and nobody 176 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: wanted to confess with him. Um, why do you think that, 177 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, just the vibe, like kind of the 178 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: creepy vibe that a lot of people described. Um, and yeah, 179 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: they were super intimidating. And you know, I felt like 180 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: that guy was the pope or like similar, because I 181 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: was young, and because my parents respected him, and all 182 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: the parents respected him, and you know, he was just 183 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: important looking. And when he passed by, floating down the 184 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: aisles the hallways, oh my god, people would just make way, 185 00:10:52,840 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, almost bowing, just intimidated. The day the war 186 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: started in Ukraine, our listeners started writing to us immediately 187 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: after a break. We'll be addressing those concerns. Welcome back 188 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: to Sacred Scandal. I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley. 189 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: At the start of this project, we were already warned 190 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: that it was only a matter of time before the 191 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: Russians invaded this beautiful country. But now having just been 192 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: there and experiencing that amazing place firsthand, this war hits hard. 193 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: And since we took you all on our journey to 194 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: Ukraine for this podcast, it seems like a lot of 195 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: you feel just like we do. Here's another listener. This 196 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: is Chas Bayfield from Tasmania, Australia. I'd love to know 197 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: whether you've been in touch with any of the people 198 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: in the Ukraine who feature in your podcasts and whether 199 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: they're a k because I'm sure a lot of your 200 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: listeners are very concerned for them. Our friends in Ukraine 201 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: have been sending us messages, so we'll let them answer 202 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: for themselves. Here's Elia Hertzock. The man asked the candidate 203 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: that we're sure you know by now my family have 204 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: been affected by the war which was started by Pudgin. 205 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: I have my business in Czech Republic, so when Russians 206 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: started bombing our cities, I was out of Ukraine as usual. 207 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: On the second day, after the military troops entered, I 208 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: decided that my family has to leave Ukraine and joined 209 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: me here. So now we are together at our home 210 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: in Czech Republic. Also, some of my friends and acquaintances, 211 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: after they have been sent their families, wives and children 212 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: to safe places, went to fight. Even as a soldiers, 213 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: all of us are actually ready to stand against the 214 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: killers from Russia. Regarding my plan for the future, for 215 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: now to stay outside to f create. I'm helping here 216 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: our people, women and children who had run away from 217 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: war to find their shelter here and helping them with 218 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: registration of all necessary documents to stay, transport or anything else. 219 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: We are gathering humanitarian aid and sending it to my country. 220 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: And I believe that this war will be stopped and 221 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: not on the stop, but we will be in against 222 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: this evolves from Russia and me and my family and 223 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: other families will be able to come back to peaceful 224 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: Ukrainian nearest future. That's what we want. Julia, our translator 225 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: who we immediately became close friends with and who made 226 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: every interaction we had in Ukraine. So Steamless also sent 227 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: us an update. My name is Julia and I'm Ukrainian. 228 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: And the recent events and the bar was truly truly 229 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: heartbreaking and terrifying. Every morning looks like waking up and 230 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: checking the news, seeing what cities were bombed, seeing who 231 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: survived died, and that's something really really, um really heartbreaking. 232 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: We live in the most western part of Ukraine, so 233 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: we were lucky enough not to get bombed, but I 234 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: can't say the same about so many places. We have 235 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: family all over Ukraine. Some live in the occupied territories, 236 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: some are fighting at war, some are getting bombed and 237 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: just praying every day to survive, to survive, just one 238 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: day at a time. My region is receiving many, many 239 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: refugees and theyre arrived like fifty people. And that's our 240 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: city is one hundred thousand people. Um, many many people 241 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: are coming. Just yesterday we received one thousand kids who 242 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: were evacuated without their parents because there wasn't just an 243 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: opportunity like this. But on the better side, if I 244 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: can say that with all its happening, our people are 245 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: as united as as possible, and it's truly truly breast 246 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: taken to see how so many people are connecting and 247 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: helping each other. So yeah, glory to Ukraine. We also 248 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: wanted to know how Mike was feeling about this whole 249 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: thing and if he had heard from his parents. Actually 250 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: got a videogram and emails for our parents and what 251 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: are they saying, how are they what's their their mood? 252 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: My parents are all right, of course, because they are 253 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: really worried about, you know, everything that's going on in 254 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: it's really difficult times right now that they are going 255 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: around in Ukraine, and it's really sad because as you 256 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: can see on the news, you can see a lot 257 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: of a lot of people displays, a lot of people 258 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: are dead, a lot of you know, children are dead. 259 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: And do you think Bert Wurkovina Bistra going to be 260 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: safe for now? You know, you know nothing, nothing for certain, 261 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: but you know, in my my town is really one 262 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: of Sisi's places right now because it's located far in 263 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: the west, right on border with this point. You know 264 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: you've been in my town, so you know you can 265 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: see from my house you can see the point, so 266 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: it would be really easy for your parents to kind 267 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: of go over the border if they need to in 268 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: the last minute sort of emergency. Right, yeah, they would 269 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: be most I'm sure. I'm sure the Polish would open up. 270 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: Remember back then in the nineties we had you know, 271 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: reservoir Polish border and guys, you think those very personal, 272 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, go and just watch all the border, you know. Yeah, yeah, 273 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: but I'm sure you know, uh yeah, right now Poland 274 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: is really good, you know the claim right now, they're 275 00:17:51,760 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: really helpful. We have been in constant contact with Ria 276 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: and Yuriko Fell and we thought we'd read you one 277 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: of the messages that they sent us. Hello, Paula and Melanie. 278 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: We thank god all is quiet and that there is 279 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: no shelling. We live far from the border of Russia 280 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: and Belarus. Many refugees flee from the war through our 281 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: Transcarpathia region. Terrible battles continue and keep all Ukrainians think 282 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: the countries that help us. When we saw the co Fells, 283 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: we talked to them for hours and it's crazy to 284 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: think only a few minutes made it into the show. 285 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of stuff like that that didn't 286 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: make it. In coming up after the break we'll be 287 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: sharing some tape that didn't make it into the show. 288 00:18:44,119 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: Stay with us, m Welcome back to Sacred Scandal. I'm 289 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley. For the sake of 290 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: the story and keeping things concise, we had to leave 291 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: out a lot of tape that we thought our listeners 292 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: might find interesting. So in this last segment, we're gonna 293 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: be playing some of that tape for you. During our 294 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: trip to Ukraine, we met up with Dr Marianna to Korshinska, 295 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: a Ukrainian doctor who was hired by Mike's defense team 296 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: to evaluate him. She spent time with Maria and Yuriko 297 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: felt as part of her evaluation, and she gave us 298 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: some great cultural perspective we hadn't heard before. The situation 299 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: with his father was very bad for him. Yes, so 300 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: he told that he wanted to escape from from that 301 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: family as quickly as possible. And this possibility to go 302 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: to this school or something like that. He really wanted 303 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: to be a priest, even named a monk, and it 304 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: was for him, it was very serious and for our people. 305 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: You have to understand, America, it was something amazing. So 306 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: some heaven, yes, so to get there. It was such 307 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: a big luck, and I'm sure for him it was 308 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: like he'll be there, he will become a priest and 309 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: everything will be We'll be just perfect. Here it was 310 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: a hell and there will be a heaven. Yes, and 311 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: it was it was not only for him like that, 312 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: it all for mostly for all of us. Yes, So 313 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: it was like that America is something so here I 314 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: went to America, Yes, and our thing was destroyed. We've 315 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: always asked ourselves how Maria and Yurik fell. Never suspected 316 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: Mike might be being abused, even when he and father 317 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: Damien came to visit and would share a bed with 318 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 1: their son in their home. You have also to understand 319 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: such things has happened there. In our mind something absolutely impossible, 320 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: believe me, homosexuality here it's it's maybe now. It is 321 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: more like it is possible to be in our time. 322 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: In his time, it was something like absolutely not impossible 323 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: to be, and especially am a priest's it's absolutely absolutely so. 324 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: So he was something destroyed in him, something broke inside him, 325 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: for sure, it was psychologically. It was absolutely Going to 326 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: Ukraine was truly one of the most intense trips of 327 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: our lives. And one we will never forget. But speaking 328 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: of trips, remember Art Nanny, the lead detective working in 329 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: the murder investigation, Well, he was on a trip to 330 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: Vegas ones and told us the story. We found pretty strange, 331 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: so described brought me a gift to go to Vegas. 332 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: But who did I run into? I ran into Petra 333 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: and one of the other monks. They were in Vegas 334 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: airport and Petra came up to me and said your name, 335 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: I said, ye, and you introduced himselves and said, what 336 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: do you guys are doing over here? They're over there 337 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: game a matter of fact, I think he was sitting 338 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: on a slot machine. I returned to No. Six, So 339 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: it was almost five years after the fact. But I'm 340 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: looking at them that they were supposed to be monks, 341 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: so and they're going to Vegas. What happens the veggest 342 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: days in Vegas? But but I was It was just 343 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: kind of blew my mind that I have the monks 344 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: in Vegas, you know. And there wasn't a lot of 345 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: conversations because I didn't really care for pet or anyways. 346 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: I believe he lied to me from the get go, 347 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: and he could have been lied to me in them 348 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: particular point too. We found this story so odd we 349 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: decided to ask Father Lou, the priest and canon law expert, 350 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: who you heard from an episode seven, his opinion on 351 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: monks taking trips and gambling. Okay, so yeah, even monks 352 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: there allowed to go on vacations. They might have set 353 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: places where you know, the monks go, but because you 354 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: become a monk, you don't cease to becoming human being. 355 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: All right, So when I want to go on vacation, 356 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: all right, I'm a master diver. All of my vacations 357 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: were diving vacations. I'd go to the Caribbean, I'd go 358 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: you know, the Pacific, I'd go diving. They were very, 359 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: very expensive. If I wanted to go on vacation, that's fine. 360 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: Cannon law allowed me a month's vacation a year, but 361 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: I had to pay for it. You know, the monks 362 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: in the monastery, are they entitled the vacation, absolutely, but 363 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: the monastery would have to pay for it. And it's 364 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: always with the understanding that what one did on vacation 365 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: was at least not antithetical to religious life. So I 366 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: could go on vacation and go diving. I could go 367 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: on vacation and maybe do some recreational gambling where it 368 00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: was legal. But I couldn't go on vacation and working 369 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: an abortion clinic, all right. Or I couldn't go on 370 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: vacation and involve myself in you know, the back room 371 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: poker part or and gamble in a place that was 372 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: going to be rated by the vice squad. But how 373 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: do you reconcile I guess, uh, the vowel of poverty 374 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: with gambling or going to Vegas or staying at a 375 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: nice hotel, for example. Well, you know, poverty means I 376 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: don't own anything. It doesn't mean that I have to 377 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: live a bereft life. If I take a vil poverty, 378 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I have to live in a hovel 379 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: and wear underwear with holes in it. I'm allowed a 380 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: basic standard of life that it's commensurate with human dignity. 381 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: Staying in a nice hotel in Las Vegas. You know 382 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: where's that on the scale? Recreational gambling in Las Vegas 383 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: is legal. It's not immoral, all right, We'll shoot a 384 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: monk gamble. I don't know, but I'm a Diosisan priest 385 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: and I used to go to Las Vegas. But that 386 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: was my money. Okay. You know, if I had a 387 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: bad run at the tables, then I didn't buy cigarettes 388 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: the next month, whereas the monk is is drawing from 389 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: the common assets, and therefore there's got to be another 390 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: like level of awareness of his use. So am I 391 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: gonna sit in judgment as someone who goes to Las 392 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: Vegas and stays in a decent hotel. Well, no, all right, 393 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: he didn't do anything illegal, He didn't do anything immoral 394 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: on the face of it, and just staying in a 395 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: nice room, there's nothing scandalous about that depends on the 396 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: local law and the local monastery. I control my finances. 397 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: Those who belong to religious orders and take the vow 398 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: of poverty do not. I mean, if guy's got a 399 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: roll of quarters and goes to a quarter machine and 400 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: feeds them in one at a time, you know he 401 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: spent what he would have spent on renting a DVD. 402 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: But if I see a monk sitting at a dollar 403 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: machine and he's putting five dollars at a time in 404 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: pulling that arm sixty times an hour. At five dollars 405 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: a time, it's three hundred bucks an hour, and he 406 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: was at that machine for four hours, I would think 407 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: to myself, is this the best use of your monastery's assets. 408 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: During the show, we heard a lot from a Holy 409 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: Cross parent, Marietta Fernandez. I've kept in touch with her 410 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: since our interview, and she's been one of the sweetest 411 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: and warmest people we've ever met. And she seemed to 412 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: know Sister Michelle better than anyone we talked to from 413 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: Holy Cross. Here's the story she told us about her 414 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: that really paints a picture of who she was. One 415 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: day when we were um, we were walking through the 416 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: halls and we were talking. We were walking towards the 417 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: chapel area. I loved to go out there and just 418 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: look at the beautiful painting outside the murals. And she 419 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: had to fill out some paperwork that she told me 420 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: that she was going to go get it and bring 421 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: it to me, you know. And I was waiting for 422 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: her in that area and she was coming back and 423 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: she had a smile on her face, and I said, so, 424 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: what's so funny. What are you smiling about? And she said, no, 425 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm happy because some of the linen that I wanted 426 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: to lay out for the Sunday service came out really well. 427 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: It ironed out really well, I go, so that makes 428 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: you happy, and she she laughed and she said, yes, 429 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: that makes me very happy. It makes me happy when 430 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: I am in the apple and I am preparing for services. 431 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: It's a feeling of accomplishment. And it was almost like 432 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: gratitude that she was grateful that she could do that. 433 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: I felt that, I felt that coming across very clear, 434 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: that she was grateful. You know, she was happy. The 435 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: linen came out great. A few months ago, we had 436 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: the chance to speak with Ukrainian priest father Taras, who 437 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: was flown to Miami all the way from trans Carpathia 438 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: to see Mike back in two thousand one. Okay, my 439 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: name is Taraslowska. I am a priest from Ukraine Transcarpasia. 440 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: Right now I am helping here in the United States 441 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania Arisbon's and bisont In Catholic Church. How did 442 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: you How did you get connected with with me Helo Kofel? 443 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: Did you know them from back in Ukraine? Not really. 444 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: I was sent by my bishop and he asked me 445 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: if I can travel and here in his confession and 446 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: bring him the Holy Communion. So what's what I did? 447 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: So I was at him in prison. What were your 448 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: impressions of Milo when you first met him? Well, I 449 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: feel sorry for him, and so, yeah, I confessed him. 450 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: I cannot talk about the confession, but you know, he 451 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: is a nice looking guy. I feel sorry, you know, 452 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: and when I hear that they give him twenty five 453 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: years or whatever, I feel sorry. So let me ask 454 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: you why why did you need to do this confession 455 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: with him? Wouldn't it have been father went job as 456 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: as his priest? Probably? Yeah? But I don't know why 457 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: why we should ask me to do this? And you 458 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: know I was, I was open to do this. Isn't 459 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: it part of being a priest kind of uh? Mainly 460 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: for giving somebody for their since, even if it's murder, 461 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: even if it's the worst thing you can possibly imagine. 462 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: Do you think that it would have been basically his 463 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: his job or it would have been that the right 464 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: thing to do for him to at least go visit 465 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: him and try to understand what happened? Probably? Yeah, yeah, 466 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, is fourteen years old is old enough 467 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: to make them a monk? Or were the circumstances of 468 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: poverty or you know, everything that they were going through 469 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: in Ukraine kind of influenced them to come. What are 470 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: your thoughts on the age that these boys were coming. 471 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: I think they was too young. My country be considered 472 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: that you are adults having eighteen year us under eighteen, 473 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: you are under jurisdiction or whatever your parents. So I 474 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: presume the parents killed the permission, and then the priests 475 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: and then the young guys. You know, they hear America 476 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: I said end of the world, and that's why they decided. 477 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: Some of these boys that were monastic candidates, you know, 478 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: they would travel for these trips, and they would say 479 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: that each priest would sleep in the same bed with 480 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: one of the monastics. Right, is that normal just to 481 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: save money and things like that. That's completely strange for 482 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: me and unusual. Usually each monk or each priest their 483 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: own separately. Do you think God forgave me halo for 484 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: what he did? I know that God is so merciful 485 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: that he is forgiving all the sins. His love is 486 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: so high and so deep that we are not able 487 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: to do so many sins or so big or so 488 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: terrible sins that God will be not able to forgive us. 489 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we have to do sins, but 490 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: we have to know this that God is. His love 491 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: is like ocean, no end. That's why we are called 492 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: to respond to his love and to love him. We 493 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: could keep talking about this case for another decade, and 494 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: we probably will. This podcast may have ended, but our 495 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: bond Mike will always be there. We'll continue to visit, 496 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: will continue to write and chat on the phone. We 497 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: know a lot of you have expressed how much you 498 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: care about the people in this story, and for that 499 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: we thank you. Having your support gave us the confidence 500 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: to keep moving forward. So stay connected to us via 501 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: social media and email. If you want to hear more 502 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: about Mike, read has short stories and get more updates 503 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: on the people we've all come to care about in Ukraine. 504 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: Although Sacred Scandal the show didn't have the ending we 505 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: hoped for, this story is not over for us and 506 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: we will continue to pursue the truth. Thank you all again, 507 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: from the bottom of our hearts. This has been Sacred Scandal. 508 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal is a production of Exile Content Studio and 509 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radios mikel Dua podcast network. Sacred 510 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: Scandal was created and produced by Melanie Bartley and me 511 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 1: Paula Barrows, our senior producer is Dennis Funk of Written 512 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: and Air. The executive producers are Rose Red and Nando Villa. 513 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: Additional production by Alvaro Sespedes. Our production assistant is Immani Leonard. 514 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 1: Original music and final mixing by Patrick Hart, and special 515 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: thanks on this episode to Brian Robertson and Michael Martone 516 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: and a huge, huge thank you to our families. If 517 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: you'd like to reach out, email us at hello at 518 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal podcast dot com, and you can follow us 519 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Sacred Scandal