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Speaker 1: You are listening to Waiting on Reparations, a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Hey what is happening night, Franca? We

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Speaker 1: are waiting on reparation and waiting on some coup of

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Speaker 1: test results because that I'm marry on. It's no joke, man,

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Speaker 1: Yeah so yeah, I mean we were just talking before

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Speaker 1: we started recording. Wait, so do you think you might

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Speaker 1: got the RUNA? I might? I might. So baby was

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Speaker 1: having a fever of like a hundred and two on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Took him to the hospital. They just gave him Thailand. All.

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Speaker 1: So that's gonna be fun to pay emergency room bill

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Speaker 1: for Thailand. All. But Thailand, you know, got him tested

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Speaker 1: for the RUNA does in case, and we're still waiting

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Speaker 1: to get those results back. But since then, I have

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Speaker 1: also started to not feel very well. So, um, we

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Speaker 1: see this is comparable to uh, the first time that

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Speaker 1: you got it. The first time I got it was

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Speaker 1: a matic I other than I think what ended up

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Speaker 1: actually being a panic attack, but to me registered as

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Speaker 1: chess pains at the time. Other than that was totally fine. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I and I also, you know, throughout pregnancy, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: have been sick multiple times this year that weren't COVID,

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Speaker 1: like you know, got tested, everything was fine. So I

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Speaker 1: might just have a compromised immune system from stress and

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Speaker 1: other factors. And so maybe it's not that. But given

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Speaker 1: the explosion in cases that we have seen in the

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Speaker 1: last two weeks, I think over a million cases um

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Speaker 1: reported on one of one day of this last week,

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Speaker 1: might have been yesterday, probably wouldn't be shocked. It feels

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Speaker 1: like every single person, like I've had multiple like potential

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Speaker 1: exposures like over the last two weeks. Oh, I mean

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Speaker 1: we have. We both have a mutual friend of the

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Speaker 1: show who right now suffering from it, and I mean

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Speaker 1: just I mean, I guess it's all anecdotal, but it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, when the initial pandemic hit, it's like there's

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Speaker 1: definitely people who I knew who were affected by it.

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Speaker 1: And then when Delta hit, it's like, Okay, more people

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Speaker 1: that I know are affected by it. And now with

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Speaker 1: the with the new Amarian strain, oh, sh like everybody

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Speaker 1: who everybody who I know has got COVID, Like every

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Speaker 1: like things in Savannah starting to shut down again, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's canceling parties and live events and stuff

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Speaker 1: that they had going on. So um, yeah, no, it

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Speaker 1: definitely is no joke. But since you are not feeling well, ship,

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Speaker 1: let's sucking. Let's let's keep it moving, right, Let's keep

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Speaker 1: it moving. We've got lots of cheery, other cheery topics

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Speaker 1: to discuss this week. Particularly this is speaking of which

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Speaker 1: Happy Insurrection Day everybody, Yeah, the anniversary. Yes, So we

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Speaker 1: generally record on like early in the week, so I

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Speaker 1: don't even think we got the chance other than I

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Speaker 1: think last year we had an episode the week after

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Speaker 1: the insurrection, the attempted coup to um, we talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the rise of my right wing fascism.

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Speaker 1: But this is our first time to really, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: reflect deeply on the other incarnations of fascism in in

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Speaker 1: the United States, particularly as they have bloomed over the

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Speaker 1: last year in the aftermath of the insurrection. And we're

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Speaker 1: actually speaking you're speaking with somebody today who is an

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Speaker 1: expert on on right wing extremism and anti and you know,

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Speaker 1: anti fascist organizing from what I understand, Yeah, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking with Christopher Goldsmith today and um, he's a

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Speaker 1: really cool guy, really interesting cat. He's an ex army

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Speaker 1: vet and when he got out, he started working with

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Speaker 1: doing veterans work and noticing that, uh, you know, some

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Speaker 1: of his brothers in arms were kind of susceptible to

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Speaker 1: you know, recruitment by right wing extremist groups, and that

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Speaker 1: started the work that he started doing infiltrating some of

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Speaker 1: those organizations, reporting them actually actively sabotaging their plans and

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Speaker 1: movement and stuff like that. So we're gonna be chatting

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Speaker 1: with him just about his thoughts on, you know, the

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Speaker 1: year after January six, some of the things the right

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Speaker 1: wing extremist groups have been up to, and just where

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Speaker 1: he thinks things are heading. So that's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: really dope conversation. But before we get into that, we're

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Speaker 1: just gonna recap some of our thoughts on January six

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Speaker 1: and talk about some of those same things. We will

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Speaker 1: be back with that after the jump. All right, we

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Speaker 1: are back. So, I mean, you know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody who's listening to the show who's been under a rock.

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Speaker 1: Most people know what the events of January six, two tho,

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Speaker 1: you know, were, But if you don't know like the

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Speaker 1: full details of stuff, or even if you want to

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Speaker 1: like get like a full sense of the picture, of

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Speaker 1: full scale of what what with them? I suggested everybody

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Speaker 1: check out the Southern Poverty Law Center. They have a

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Speaker 1: extremely dope timeline of all of the events, and I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about dating back before George Floyd's murder. But

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Speaker 1: they kind of go through the rundown of all of

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Speaker 1: of the entire year to show you all of the

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Speaker 1: little events nationwide that we're leading up to what eventually

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Speaker 1: it took place on January six. But just to kick

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Speaker 1: it off for you're gonna read this little uh opening

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Speaker 1: of how they opened up that timeline. So on January six,

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Speaker 1: two thousand twenty one, a right wing mob stormed the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Capitol at the urging of President Donald J. Trump in

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Speaker 1: an attempt to prevent the certification of the presidential election results.

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Speaker 1: But the attack didn't come from nowhere. It was the

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Speaker 1: culmination of a year of increasingly radical activity by a

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Speaker 1: slew of extremists around the country. They mobilized against racial justice,

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen prevention measures, and voting rights for all Americans,

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Speaker 1: and they were goaded on by the President and other

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Speaker 1: politicians on the right. I mean, I'm sorry I didn't

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Speaker 1: so similar to the aftermath of the George Floyd murder,

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Speaker 1: there was almost universal there's almost universal combination of the riot.

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Speaker 1: But just like with Floyd, it only took a few

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Speaker 1: weeks before Republican politicians began to rationalize and justify it

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Speaker 1: um As a congratsional investigation into the event wraps up. Now,

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Speaker 1: more and more evidence has come out about the director

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Speaker 1: involvement of Trump, his staff, and administration, as well as

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Speaker 1: various right wing media figures. You know, there's text messages

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Speaker 1: that came out between uh, talking heads at Fox News

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Speaker 1: and Trump's children trying to dissuade Trump from egging on

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Speaker 1: the rioters. Um that were you know, ultimately ignored, etcetera. UM.

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Speaker 1: They've been finding like all sorts of hidden memos and

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Speaker 1: drafts and PowerPoint presentations to show exactly like how like

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Speaker 1: I mean, the main thing is, it's like in real time,

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Speaker 1: like experiencing it, it seems ridiculous, you know, and it

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Speaker 1: seems like he he ha haw other sart of losers,

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Speaker 1: or this is funny or they're being ridiculous. But in

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Speaker 1: the you know, the time sense, it's like we found

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Speaker 1: out how calculated and deliberate this entire thing was. And

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Speaker 1: and not only that, but also how much most of

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Speaker 1: these not even most, how much all of these right

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Speaker 1: wing politicians did not believe a word of what they

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Speaker 1: were saying, Like none of them believe that the Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump really won the election. None of them believe it,

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Speaker 1: but they're saying it anyway. So a lot of that

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Speaker 1: stuff has been exposed and is coming out. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: one way or another, this committee is going to end

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Speaker 1: because you know, the Republicans are most likely going to

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Speaker 1: win back the House, and when they do, they're probably

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Speaker 1: gonna shut this ship down the next day if it's

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Speaker 1: still going on. So and this is important why I

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Speaker 1: you know, in my life of elected service whatever um

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Speaker 1: and very resistant to the like the committee ization of

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Speaker 1: everything of like, oh, let's assign that to a committee.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a committee investigate that, you know, study for reparations.

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Speaker 1: Let's assign that to a committee. You know, January six,

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Speaker 1: let's have a committee look into that, because it's just

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Speaker 1: where they send stuff to die like that. A year later,

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Speaker 1: like none of the folks that were encouraging this insurrection

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Speaker 1: have been expelled from Congress or even censured in a

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Speaker 1: major way. None of them have, to my understanding, been

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Speaker 1: stripped of their committees or anything like that. Uh, let

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Speaker 1: alone any sort of legal action taken against them for treason, etcetera. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we just assigned the committee, and yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: we've you know, discovered a lot of harrowing details about

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Speaker 1: it through the course of this investigation. But like you said,

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Speaker 1: probably will take back the house nubsp No's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: It's shocking to degree to which Republicans have continued to

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Speaker 1: push the big lie. You know, in Cobb County this

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Speaker 1: week there is a pob County Republican Party is hosting

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Speaker 1: like a vigil for the j six patriots that you

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Speaker 1: know are being persecuted, etcetera, etcetera. Um. Like, folks have

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Speaker 1: just become ever more emboldened since then because nothing there

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Speaker 1: were really no consequences for I mean, you give him

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Speaker 1: motherfucker interest, they're going to take a vial or a

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Speaker 1: yard or whatever the saying is. But I mean it

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Speaker 1: really is like that there. Paul gos Are is still

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Speaker 1: still there. He's still he's still going to white supremacist

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Speaker 1: rallies and then going to the house. Like you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, He's he's still going back and forth

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Speaker 1: like it's I don't think that I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that I don't think that it's sunk in

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Speaker 1: how like the madness of that situation. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's really stuck to landing as much as you know

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Speaker 1: lives in mainstream media. They report on it at nausea,

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Speaker 1: so it's not like it's not being reporting. But for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, from like a public standpoint, that ship didn't

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Speaker 1: stick the way that it did, you know, again speaking

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Speaker 1: in in cliches, but it's like, obviously if that was

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Speaker 1: like a Black Lives Matter protest, that was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Muslim people that like we you know, you can

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Speaker 1: go down the list of like what group, what demographic

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Speaker 1: that that group could have been made of, that would

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Speaker 1: make us still be talking about it today like it

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Speaker 1: was the traumatizing national, traumatizing event that it was, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. But it's like whenever right wingers

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Speaker 1: do shit, ship doesn't. I don't know why, but ship

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Speaker 1: just doesn't seem to stick because like it seems like

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Speaker 1: I think this was an emblematic of like America in that,

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Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes the folks pulling the strings and inciting

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Speaker 1: the terror get away or you know, just for you

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Speaker 1: know who, or complicit in the crimes, but are like

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Speaker 1: big wigs of some fashion get away with ship. And

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Speaker 1: then the foot soldiers are the ones that get popped

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Speaker 1: because there have been some pretty serious consequences for a

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Speaker 1: number of the people who physically stormed the capital, even

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Speaker 1: if there haven't been for the folks that whooped them

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Speaker 1: into a frenzy. Just like how during the housing christ

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Speaker 1: of the two thousand eight, you best believe the folks

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Speaker 1: the men that were beating their wives because they were

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Speaker 1: losing their houses, and the folks that were turned into

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Speaker 1: prostitution or whatever because they lost their jobs, and the

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Speaker 1: kids that you know started selling weed because the parents

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Speaker 1: whole college fund for them got you know, disappeared overnight.

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Speaker 1: You best believe all those people went to jail. You

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Speaker 1: best believe all these people want to do, but the

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Speaker 1: Wall Street motherfucker's did not, because the people at the

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Speaker 1: top skate by and they're totally fine. No matter what

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Speaker 1: sorts of calamities the engineer, it's the people that are

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Speaker 1: doing the footwork that are that is the result of

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Speaker 1: that engineered calamity. That there are the people that go

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Speaker 1: to jail. I mean, I agree, I like the correct

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Speaker 1: but I mean, still there's a there's a still there's

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Speaker 1: a disparity. Though. It's like I think that like if

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Speaker 1: I hear of somebody who was, you know, participated in

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Speaker 1: the Gen six thing, Oh this person got two years

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Speaker 1: or oh this person got like five years or something

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Speaker 1: like that, to me, that sounds like, wow, that's like

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Speaker 1: serious consequences. But I'm I'm saying that as like somebody

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Speaker 1: who generally just generally as a you know, a ruler prinsiple,

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Speaker 1: doesn't really like want motherfucker's going to jail like that,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But we damn sure know

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Speaker 1: that they would be handing out five and ten years

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Speaker 1: sentences like gettles if this was a Black Lives Matter protest,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, like none of that

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Speaker 1: would matter. And and the thing is the thing that

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Speaker 1: kills me about like people on the left is like

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Speaker 1: like we're using all of these like qualifiers as to

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Speaker 1: why we shouldn't look down on this situation or why

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, we shouldn't have as big

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Speaker 1: of a hysteria as like mainstream media, like mainstream establishment

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Speaker 1: democrats are having on it. We shouldn't be that freaked

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Speaker 1: out about the situation because oh man, they're just gonna

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Speaker 1: if we if they crack down on this, then think

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Speaker 1: about when they're in power, they're gonna crack down on

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Speaker 1: left wing activism and lest left wing protests and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. It's it's like, what what planet or motherfucker's

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Speaker 1: living on they're gonna do that anyway? That's yeah, like

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Speaker 1: there's there's no there's no like reality that's gonna happen

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Speaker 1: where we go through another period of their being, like

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Speaker 1: you know, heavy protests on the left, that our heavy

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Speaker 1: protests coming from the left. There's no no world where

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be in that situation and Republicans or conservatives

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Speaker 1: and charge A're gonna say, man, you know what, we

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Speaker 1: were going to crack down on them, but they didn't

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Speaker 1: cracked down on the jam six guys. So it's cool,

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Speaker 1: like what, yeah, this is getting this that not going

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Speaker 1: to be the kid na, although you know, it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Like I generally try to avoid amplifying horseshoe theory because

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Speaker 1: I do think it is ultimately reactionary like way to

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Speaker 1: discredit the left at times, but the idea that like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the far right and the far left like

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Speaker 1: sort of meat in the middle in some ways, kind

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Speaker 1: of like if politics were a horseshoe. However, something that

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Speaker 1: I do find really interesting is the way that Marjorie

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Speaker 1: Taylor Green and Matt Gates and folks like that have

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Speaker 1: been calling for justice for the j six wrioters that

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Speaker 1: are being unfairly treated in prison, and like, look at

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Speaker 1: these horrible conditions in prison, and it's like, yo, we've

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Speaker 1: been trying to tell you that for so long, Like yes,

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Speaker 1: comrade Marjorie Taylor Green, Like that's that's the thing, is like,

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Speaker 1: but that's the thing is like it's all disingenuous, and

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Speaker 1: it's all on purpose, and it's all the oh no,

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely playing. I'm playing. But it's just really you're paying.

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Speaker 1: There's mad people. There's mad people who don't who think

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Speaker 1: that un ironically, I mean, who like aren't playing her

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Speaker 1: like and it's it's just it's totally weird. Like when

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Speaker 1: when Marjorie Taylor Green starts talking like she's sucking MLK

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Speaker 1: about prison conditions and stuff like that in the context

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Speaker 1: of January six people, she's doing that on purpose. You

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Speaker 1: know what. I mean like she's purposely co opting like

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Speaker 1: language like that about like prison conditions and pstances like

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Speaker 1: they're doing they're trolling, you know what I'm saying, Like

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Speaker 1: they're they're trying to be like wink wink funny, like

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Speaker 1: ha ha ha, we're using their stuff. So you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. So I don't know. I I don't

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Speaker 1: like for me, I don't necessarily know whether I'm in

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Speaker 1: the mindset of a throw the hammer at them as

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Speaker 1: an example to their friends or whatever. But I mean

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Speaker 1: when you when you you're essentially telling motherfucker's that feel

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Speaker 1: entitled to ship already that is good. Not only those good,

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Speaker 1: but like sit tight until y'all boys get back. That's not.

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Speaker 1: It's like none of this stuff is good, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not talking about the usual good like when

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Speaker 1: you like watch the news and ship and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's bad. I mean like this ship this is like bad,

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Speaker 1: Like like where where this this ship is heading? Is it?

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Speaker 1: It's January six was just a dry run. It was

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Speaker 1: just practice. It was dress rehearsal, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And it's like in the year that has passed since,

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Speaker 1: you know, laws have been changed to to take away

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Speaker 1: people's voting rights. Things have been implemented to make it

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Speaker 1: harder and more difficult for people to vote. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I see them, I see them making this

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Speaker 1: play for their minority rule thing, and you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're not slowing down with it at all.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, it's it's it's pretty shifty stuff. Do

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Speaker 1: you sorry? I was gonna say, do you recall like

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Speaker 1: your thoughts or feelings that day January? Yeah? I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember it was it was daytime and ship and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you were home. I think I

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Speaker 1: may have been. Where would I have been? It's a pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, true, true, true, true, um, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like for me, it was kind of like it was

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Speaker 1: kind of like a uh like the O. J. Simpson

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Speaker 1: running away in the White Bronco or like even like

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Speaker 1: Christopher Goldsmith he was saying, like for him, it was

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Speaker 1: like the similar feeling to nine eleven, not like the

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Speaker 1: gravity of the situation, not comparing them in that sense,

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Speaker 1: but just comparing the like the weight of it, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like I remember, you know, there

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Speaker 1: there's certain there's certain things that have happened in in

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Speaker 1: life throughout life where it's like it happens that day

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Speaker 1: and you remember like that day, you remember where you

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Speaker 1: were when you saw it going down, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, Like you remember how like the room smelled

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Speaker 1: like it's one of the it's one of It was

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Speaker 1: one of those situations for me where I'm watching it

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Speaker 1: on TV and not knowing how it was going to

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Speaker 1: play out, me just completely thinking that the cops are

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Speaker 1: just gonna start bucket people at some point and expecting it,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I was I was

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Speaker 1: just like sitting there watching it, like, man, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: remember this for the rest of my life, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure, definitely, Definitely. It felt very momentous. It felt

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Speaker 1: like a watershed moment because it was so unclear what

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Speaker 1: was going to happen next, Like are they gonna start

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Speaker 1: storming capital? It's all over the nation? Uh da da

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Speaker 1: da da dad. That was the day. That was the

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Speaker 1: day I got sworn into my second term, and like

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Speaker 1: I was like furiously texting the city manager like is

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Speaker 1: it safe, and people like making fun of me like yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's fine, It's like yeah, bench, you ain't never got

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Speaker 1: no lynching threats, ma'am, Like, of course you're not worried.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to stand outside City Hall get my

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Speaker 1: brains blown out by sniper on the parking deck. Like

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Speaker 1: just so much, so much uncertainty of what the larger

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Speaker 1: implications were for it in that moment of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: where is this going? Yeah, and it could have got bad.

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Speaker 1: I mean it could have got he got so so bad.

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Speaker 1: I think I heard something about a report that came

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Speaker 1: out that said that there actually was like a like

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Speaker 1: you know, damn mear like Special Forces hostage rescue sort

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Speaker 1: of like team on standby while all the ship was

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Speaker 1: going down. So the question was like, okay, how come

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Speaker 1: they didn't go into action? Why were they implemented? And

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Speaker 1: it was like, no, no, these dudes don't. Like these

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Speaker 1: dudes go to clear building and nobody standing up when

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Speaker 1: they're done, you know what I'm saying. So it was

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Speaker 1: kind of they were on standby pretty much waiting like

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Speaker 1: if that door, you know, the door where um Ashley

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Speaker 1: Babbitt got shot, But they're pretty much standing by like

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Speaker 1: waiting to see if that door was gonna get breached,

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Speaker 1: and if that should have gotten breach, there would have

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Speaker 1: been some like operators just clearing out the clearing out

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Speaker 1: the capitol, and some of these gravy seal guys would

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Speaker 1: have ran into like the real deal ship that they

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Speaker 1: that they like to pretend to be, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, And then that would have created a ton

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Speaker 1: of martyrs, and then we'd be sitting, you know, it

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Speaker 1: would be sitting in a completely different I'd argue, even

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Speaker 1: worse dynamic with the situation than we are right now.

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Speaker 1: But it's like if if the next election comes around

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Speaker 1: and they make another play at this sort of thing

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Speaker 1: and they do it in a more organized sense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's like kind of like backing. It's like backing the

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Speaker 1: rest of the country into a corner to where you

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Speaker 1: either sit back and let them do it or you

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Speaker 1: confront them on it. Yeah, you know, Um, let's get

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Speaker 1: into some of these statistics and stuff like that from

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Speaker 1: last year and the year before it. So in the US,

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Speaker 1: the number of hate crimes targeting black people jumped nearly

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Speaker 1: forty and the number of hate crimes targeting Asian people

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Speaker 1: jumped near a rose by sev. The actual number of

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Speaker 1: reported incidents targeting Asian people last year, it's relatively small,

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Speaker 1: with two hundred and seventy four crimes compared to the

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Speaker 1: targeting black people, but still it's increase. Nonetheless, in there

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Speaker 1: were two thousand, seven hundred and fifty five reported incidents

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Speaker 1: targeting blacks and Black Africans and people living in the

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Speaker 1: US man Overall, in the United States, hate crimes rose

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Speaker 1: by six percent, according to the FBI. And what I

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Speaker 1: really hate Like I hate I hate violence and office

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Speaker 1: forms um except for like punching Nazis. However, like I

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Speaker 1: hate that the conversation around hate crimes devolved into like

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Speaker 1: interracial like competition for like who should be like who

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Speaker 1: should be protected under the law, just various things, various

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Speaker 1: things like black folks saying like oh, like in the

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Speaker 1: phase of things like the Atlanta SPA shootings, like well,

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Speaker 1: you know we didn't see all saying black lives matter less?

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Speaker 1: Why shouldn't be? Yeah, no, we should ban together first

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Speaker 1: of all. Like I don't think hate crimes laws a

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Speaker 1: particularly the best way to deal with these situations. I'm

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Speaker 1: always for like actual preventative measures like the radicalizing folks

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Speaker 1: through education, etcetera. But like the fact that it turned

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Speaker 1: into this pisson contest of like whose lives are in danger.

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Speaker 1: More like, bro, why don't we all band together and

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Speaker 1: get you for all of us? Like everybody please to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love all of y'all, A love my Asian brothers

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Speaker 1: and sisters. I love black people, you know, African immigrants,

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Speaker 1: all y'all, we're all cool man, let's all get it

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Speaker 1: and we're all we're all going through it together too,

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Speaker 1: so you know, like it would behoove us to band

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Speaker 1: together and strike the numbers and all that does. Um.

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Speaker 1: The agency of the FBI considers criminal incidents to be

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Speaker 1: hate crimes if they're motivated by bias towards race, ethnicity, ancestry, religion,

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Speaker 1: sexual orientation, disability, gender, and gender identity. There were seven thousand,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty nine criminal incidents reported and ten thousand,

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Speaker 1: five hundred thirty two related defenses that were considered hate

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Speaker 1: crimes last year by the FBI. The majority of hate

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Speaker 1: crimes more than involved intimidation of victims. Well nearly forty

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Speaker 1: six percent were either simple or aggravated assaults. A total

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Speaker 1: of murders were reported as hate crimes, which is probably

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Speaker 1: an undercount UM given like the weakness of our hate

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Speaker 1: crimes reporting laws and mechanisms. But these statistics, um said

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Speaker 1: I started going off with then not even reading thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: there are more than eighteen thousand agencies in the United

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Speaker 1: States and more than three thousands did not submit their

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Speaker 1: crime statistics. In what thoughts on that? I am? That's

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Speaker 1: the phrase again, Like I said, I think beefing up

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Speaker 1: like are like I think beefing up our hate crimes,

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Speaker 1: reporting laws and infrastructure, let's say, is only as helpful

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Speaker 1: as it allows us to identify underlying causes and eradicate them.

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Speaker 1: So like, just like just knowing how many people, like

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Speaker 1: I guess that's helpful to know how many people can

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Speaker 1: beat the funk up and stuff. However, like, what are

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Speaker 1: we doing? What are we doing with this information other

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Speaker 1: than just like honestly kind of fearmongering make people afraid

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Speaker 1: to like take the subway or walk home alone at night,

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Speaker 1: which you know, if they should be afraid, then that's valid.

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Speaker 1: But like, what like other than that, what is being

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Speaker 1: done with this information? Are we are we using it

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Speaker 1: to analyze what is radicalizing people into violent extremism and

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Speaker 1: changing our school curricula to foster more appreciation of diversity

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Speaker 1: and inclusivity. No, we're not doing any sort of ship

426
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: of like an actual quantitative to like measure results pipeline. Well,

427
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know that. I don't know that

428
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: nobody's doing that, but I mean you you definitely can

429
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: use that information to like kind of check the to

430
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: kind of like take like a temperature. You know what

431
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's it's not to me, it's not. It

432
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: seems like it makes you know, like logical one plus

433
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: one equals two cents, that the pandemic happened, and that

434
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: stupid people are like harassing and attacking Asian people, you

435
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So it's like like that like

436
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: it gives you. It gives you. You can you can

437
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: use that to take the temperature that it's like, Okay,

438
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: there's this thing that's happening in the world in the

439
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: news and now violence is increasing against Asian Americans. You

440
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: can work. Yeah, I shouldn't say that, no one is.

441
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: But I mean it's similar to how when they took

442
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: you know, it's like they took Trump off of Twitter,

443
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: and quantifiably they could tell oh, okay, there's not as

444
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: much hate speech going on on Twitter, like like the

445
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: the amount of the amount of hate speech that was

446
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: generated on Twitter, like dropped significantly over the year. That

447
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: like job hasn't been on there doesn't mean he's responsible

448
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: for race speech, but it just meant what is like

449
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: causing effect, you know what I'm saying. So yeah, I

450
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: think that the like hate crime numbers can be used

451
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: in that sense where it's like, man, you know, if

452
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: you if you look in the last ten years and

453
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you know, like you get

454
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: to year five and then the ship jumps up. You know,

455
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: you gotta kind of look at the factors that are

456
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: going in and what's happening, what's causing those numbers to jump,

457
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: even if it's not like scientific, just to give you

458
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: somewhat of a sense. No, that's absolutely valid. And I

459
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: do imagine there's a lot of scholars studying that kind

460
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: of thing. I imagine the folks in the sun probably

461
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: lost and it probably study that kind of thing. I've

462
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: been on briefings with UM like fair Fight where they

463
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: have looked at election misinformation and right wing violent extremism

464
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: targeting elected officials, like they are keeping track of that

465
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: stuff UM within their organization for Georgia. And so I

466
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: guess my question is to what degree are these things?

467
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: Is this knowledge being taken up by actual governmental bodies,

468
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: like it's the FBI, do it? Are they too busy uh?

469
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: File training intercepting like black liberation movements? How would you

470
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: use that information, councilwoman? Um? I mean, okay, well, let's

471
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: be clear. Local governments can only do so much. I mean,

472
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: if I were, if I were like Chairman Parker or whatever,

473
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: but going to make sure there's no racism on this block?

474
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean, but governmentally, like considering restrictions on,

475
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, within the f c C of what sort

476
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: of stuff that folks can be posting or amplifying or

477
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: since or you know, somehow bringing the hammer down on

478
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: h corporations like Facebook that have significantly contributed to contributed

479
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: to the amplification of right wing the violent extremism. You know,

480
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: they were shown to be fundling people in the Q

481
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: and on and ship like that. What where are the

482
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: consequences for that? Um? So, I think efforts like that

483
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: could be I mean, like, aren't my effectively promoting censorship?

484
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm not trying to get people killed

485
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: out here because somebody thinks that. To ask you your

486
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: thoughts on that, So I mean, like, because we're about

487
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: to get into this next group, because we're gonna go

488
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: down a little rundown to some of the groups that

489
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: were active in it, and and who's on the scene

490
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: right now. But what do you feel about that, like

491
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: in a quilt to or in a in a effort

492
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: to prevent right wing propaganda from spreading? Like what are

493
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: your thoughts on just the argument of speech and free

494
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: speech and and how that's applied and censorship and d

495
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: platforming and you know what I mean, when when to

496
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: do it, when not to do it, when to even

497
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: talk about it or mention it? Is it fundamentally just

498
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: from a principal standpoint and no go free. So this

499
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: gets into like what could the stand to be used for?

500
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: Like you were saying, you'd look took it to a

501
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 1: different level and I hadn't thought about before and appreciate that.

502
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: So if we consistently see um rises in hate crimes

503
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: like correlated with certain sorts of like um, let me

504
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: pay for a second with Okay, if we start to

505
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: see a correlation between an increase in hate crimes and

506
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: proliferation of certain kinds of rhetoric um hate, you know,

507
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: hateful rhetoric against a certain group, like Oh, Trump in

508
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: the news this week talking about how Mexicans are rapists.

509
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: Next week we saw like twenty two aggravated insults against

510
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: people who looked Hispanic or something like that. Perhaps not

511
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: as cut and dry, but like like when you aggregate data,

512
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: you can probably see significant trends of that sort that

513
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: can then inform policy to say, all right, this is

514
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: this is causing violence. This this sort of like messaging

515
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: is causing violence. So we're gonna crack down on it.

516
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: You can't say the ship, not because we want to

517
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: restrict your free speech, but literally you weren't sighting violence

518
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: against people. You're putting people. I mean, if we just

519
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: go back to right, Dylan Ruth kills all those black

520
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: people in the in the church, writes a manifesto. More

521
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: or less, I'm mega right. Charlottesville happens, Heather Higher gets killed.

522
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: Everybody there is. That's you literally called the Unite the

523
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: Right rally. We're all mega right, um homie in the

524
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: Texas church. I think it's maybe dude walks in body armor,

525
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: sprays everybody up, white dude, and it's white church. He

526
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: ended up being mega park Land shoot that's a MAGA kid.

527
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: Um fast forward to today around this time, who's the

528
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: kid that just uh, I forget where that was. Guy,

529
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: there's so many of them. But a kid went to

530
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: his school and he shot I think he hit like

531
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: a like a football player and a couple of other kids.

532
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: It just happened just like a couple of weeks ago.

533
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: But that kid's the one whose parents went on the run.

534
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: Remember here, Yeah, I remember that kid. Yeah that was

535
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: that was that that was a MAGA inspired incident. And

536
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: then taking us back to last week, um where uh,

537
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: all right, philosopher went on a murderous rampage in Denver

538
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: and killed five people. Again being cliche, but if those

539
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: are just like five or six incidences that have happened

540
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: in the last five and six years, and like, for real,

541
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: if even one of those things was done by al Qaeda,

542
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: we would be invading a country right now. Not that

543
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm saying that's what we should be doing, you know

544
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I'm not like like, that's not what

545
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm saying, But it's just like there is something alarming

546
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: to me, the amount of malaise towards it. You know,

547
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: it's just it's just I just don't see it. Just

548
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: like with the January six thing, I think that all

549
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: of these incidences are just gonna keep being more frequent

550
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: than they are right now because like everything is embolding

551
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: people and people aren't being held to account for these things.

552
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: Like I'm not I'm not working with the cops and

553
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm not working with the police state. But I'm also

554
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: not gonna be stupid and like let right wingers run

555
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: game on me so that I don't protect myself, you

556
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I'm not looking out for

557
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: my own best interests in the name of like some

558
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: esoteric like political like theory of like well, I mean,

559
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, because like I wouldn't want the police states.

560
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: It's like, no, we don't want the police state to

561
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: be used against people because we largely feel that it's

562
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: it's used unjustly and unfairly in at the behest of

563
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: the powerful. Well, let me put it this way, but

564
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 1: like when people are actually acting in bad faith and

565
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: like with insidious like plots trying to harm like everyone else,

566
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just I can't be like but it

567
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 1: slide because let me put it this way, I don't

568
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: think prison is a good place for these people that

569
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: I don't think putting them in prison is going to

570
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: make our community safer, because in prison, without access to

571
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: your family or TV or Twitter or whatever, you're going

572
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: to join a white supremacist game. If you weren't in

573
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: one already, or if you were in one already, you're

574
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: gonna like get a swastick, it's at it on your

575
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: neck and lift uh, you know, do squads or whatever

576
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: in the yard with the Nazis and become more hardened

577
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: and really hate the state more because they've imprisoned you.

578
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: So when you get out, if you get out, you're

579
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: gonna be worse than when you went in there. Now

580
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: that I'm saying people need all accountable, it's just I'm

581
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: adding nuance to the like the bail, like, well there

582
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: should be accountability. I don't want these same slides. I

583
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: don't know this ship slide either. I'm just worried about

584
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: the further radicalization of people as a result of incarceration. No,

585
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: it's a it's a totally fair and good point. I

586
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: would just argue that in this scenario, I think it's better,

587
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: Like I really do. In this scenario, I think it's

588
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: better that these these guys. These people be in situations

589
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: where they are tattooed on them and they are you know,

590
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean joining White supremacist gate. Like, like, the the

591
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: threat right now is not like like a street level

592
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: insurgents of you know, like right wing extremism, although that

593
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: is a threat, Like that's the like as far as

594
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: in the context of what I'm talking about, that's like

595
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: the Dylan Roof type stuff, or it's like the sort

596
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: of attacks that I've been like, you know, listening down

597
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: like that street level like we're gonna do something. I'm

598
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: a lone wolf. I'm gonna do something. All that stuff

599
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,479
Speaker 1: is gonna increase. But like the more dangerous aspect long term,

600
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: like that ship is like immediately dangerous to the people

601
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: who are caught up. You know what I'm saying. If

602
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: if you have the misfortune of being at that location

603
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: when that lone wolf does that thing, and that sucks.

604
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: But I just mean, like a broader, more general danger

605
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: is that if these guys aren't like being driven to

606
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: like those margins where it's like, oh, man, I'm in

607
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: the Nazi gang, you know what I mean, Or man,

608
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: I went to jail so that I got the tattoo

609
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: the swast my eye and shipped like that. They they

610
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: they get to like they get to fucking slither into

611
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: the you know what I mean, undercover and and get

612
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: their their thoughts not marginalized and adopted. I mean, we

613
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: had the Republican parties is wide open for this ship,

614
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: and it's simply just a matter of which way they're

615
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: gonna go in the next five ten years. They've always

616
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: had all of the they've always been with the ships,

617
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: with the bullshit that they've been with. But like now,

618
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: I think we face the threat of if this like

619
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: right wing extremist ship gets normalized even more than it

620
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: already is, you're gonna have an entire political party just

621
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: like outright adopted, you know, because they haven't yet for

622
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: all of those For as that ship insane as the

623
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: Republicans are right now, they're lad, you know, pretty much

624
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: is still led by Trump World. And Trump World has

625
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: no principles and no real belief system, you know what

626
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm saying, there's no there's no real ideology and Trump World.

627
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: But if they start adopting this like like we're you know,

628
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna like talk a little bit briefly or not

629
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: even we've talked about Patriot Front before they were the

630
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 1: group that marched in Washington a couple of weeks ago.

631
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: But like, for example, that should comprised the twenty year

632
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: old yo in eighteen year old and you know, like

633
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: in in in ten years, if those guys are, if

634
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: those guys like don't face any consequences for their ship,

635
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: none of them have to go to jail where it's like, oh,

636
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get us lost his tattooed on my face.

637
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna end up becoming a cop or a

638
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: judge perhaps perhaps or a real estate agent or landlords.

639
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: People are already real estate agents and cos and landlords,

640
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: Like I don't We're not gonna avoid that from happening.

641
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: That's what these people already are. But I would say

642
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: I don't have a clear answer for what accountability would

643
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: look like for these people, because perhaps they are too

644
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: far gone. I also know that when people are back

645
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: into a corner, they bite, you know. Um, that's we

646
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: see with folks that are out here slaying maths and

647
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: killing each other and my fucking neighborhood. And that is

648
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: equally true of people that feel marginalized for made up reasons.

649
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: But oh, I'm so oppressed because I'm a white real

650
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: estate agent. UM, but like feel oppressed or marginalized ideologically,

651
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: UM that tends to like sometimes retrench the white people

652
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: already feel. But again, I don't have a clear answer

653
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: for it, other than like, I think the reason why

654
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: Republicans um pursue austerity politics so hard is to keep

655
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: alive these racial resentments and uh between like the white

656
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: and black working classes. Like, if we pass things like

657
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: a federal job guarantee, you couldn't claim anymore than Mexicans

658
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: are stealing your jobs. If we did things like free

659
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: higher education and a lot of these you know, white

660
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: folks that just come home from work at the auto

661
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: shop every day and put on Fox was could like

662
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: develop some critical thinking and maybe realize that like black

663
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: people are the people, ETCeteras. Like I think a lot

664
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: of these things could, over the long term, helped transform

665
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: the situation that we're in. And that's the kind of

666
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: thing I always advocate for. Like there's no perfect system

667
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: of accountability. I don't even know if a state is

668
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: capable of developing such. But like the ending, this kind

669
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: of violence is ultimately incumbent upon UH. Thus state to

670
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: investing communities in a way that like just keep people

671
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: from becoming this mentally deranged. But anyway, UM, if you

672
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: want to, if you want to get into the interview,

673
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: we can. We're gonna take a little break, y'all, and

674
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: when we get back, we're gonna have that interview that

675
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: I had with Christopher Goldsmith, Nazi hunter, extraordinair, and we're

676
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: gonna get his thoughts on January six and some of

677
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: the stuff that we've been talking about so far. So

678
00:40:49,520 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: we will be back with that after the job. All right, people,

679
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: what is happening? We are back? All right? So we've

680
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: got uh now, a friend of the podcast. Um, it's

681
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: my Homies, a CEO of something called Spavarious, which he's

682
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: going to explain to us. He's also an Iraq war

683
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: vet and a Nazi hunter. I want you to you know,

684
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: I wish I always say this whenever I introduced people,

685
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: but like I wish that this was live so that

686
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: I could get like a crowd response to you know

687
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: what I mean. But I wish everyone could make some

688
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: notfou hopie, Christopher Goldsmith, what's happened? Christ how you do?

689
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: What's happened? Brother? It's good to be kind of back, yeah,

690
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: kind of that kind of back. Well when when I

691
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, I just gave you an introduction like that,

692
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: like with all with all of those things, what exactly

693
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: like would you how would you describe yourself? Like what

694
00:41:55,160 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: do you do? So? Um? I one of the one

695
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: of the most eye opening classes that I ever took.

696
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: You know, I've joined the army when I was when

697
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: I was eighteen, I went to a rack at nineteen,

698
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: was was out by twenty one in like some really

699
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: rough shape. I got out in two thousand seven, and

700
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: I didn't start school until so it took me that

701
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: long to kind of like put myself back together. Um.

702
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: And I took in economics one on one course, and uh,

703
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: it was one of the most eye opening courses in

704
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: terms of like applying names and and like like actual

705
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: um theory to things that I kind of understood but

706
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: like didn't have a name for. Uh. And one of

707
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: those things is negative externalities. So negative externalities is like

708
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: when a coal firing power plant is operating in your

709
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: town and and smog is like you know, just filling

710
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: your house with with all sorts of terrible stuff. That's

711
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: a negative externality, like you are paying the cost for

712
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: that power plant's operation. Right, So modern day laws, we

713
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: tax them, right, or we find them for for that

714
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Right now, the far right, UM, you

715
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: know everything from Trump World on, They're imposing negative externalities

716
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: on all of us all the time. I mean, January

717
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: six was a traumatic event for so many of us.

718
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: UM as a New Yorker who experienced eleven from twenty

719
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: miles away lost. Um. You know, I personally didn't lose anybody,

720
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: but most of my friends and family, UM lost someone

721
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: who is a direct connection. UM. January six felt like

722
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: that to me, right, So all of these folks have

723
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: been putting their negative externalities on us and we haven't

724
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: had any way to impose any costs on it. So

725
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: I created Sparbarious. UM. There's an organization that is focused

726
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: on not just tracking and researching and reporting on the

727
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: far right, but sabotage. So I will do things like

728
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: join a neo Nazi organization of document their internal comms

729
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: and then I'll post them online so that people understand,

730
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: Like if they've got a Nazi in their neighborhood and

731
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: they want to take action to make sure that their

732
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: community is safe, Like I'm helping people do that. That's awesome.

733
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: So how do you like on the right Now it's

734
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: Tuesday that we're talking, But when this episode is going

735
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: to come out, it's going to be January six, the

736
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: anniversary of January six. So in the time the year

737
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: that's passed since then, what have you noticed about the

738
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: movement of like far right and extremist groups have has

739
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: there been any sort of rallying around that event. Obviously

740
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: there have been a couple of attempts to try and

741
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: do another one or you know that haven't really gone

742
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: gone so well for them. But have you noticed any

743
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: sort of ratcheting up of their activity in the past year? Yeah? So, Um,

744
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: depending on what time of day people are listening to

745
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: this podcast. Um, you know, my, my, my guests could

746
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: be wrong, but you know, my analysis of what's set

747
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: to happen on January six is a whole lot of nothing,

748
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: at least in terms of you know, what happened here prior.

749
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: But much more significant is the fact that all of

750
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: the extremists who are involved in January six, either they're

751
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 1: committing violence against their fellow Americans, police officers protecting the

752
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: citadel of democracy, uh you know, using Blue Lives Matter

753
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: flags to to hit cops right um, or if they

754
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: were financial supporters, or or just you know Fox News

755
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: UM audience who who are committed to the ideologies. They've

756
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: moved their operations instead of from being centralized and attacking

757
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: the capital to harassing school boards and local election officials.

758
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: And you know this is we have entered a new

759
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: phase in our in our history, and we're experiencing an insurgency.

760
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: You know, when I when I speak about these these terms,

761
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: when I use the term Nazi, when I use the

762
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: term fascist or insurgency or terrorism, I want to be

763
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: clear I'm not using hyperbole, Like I'm not one of

764
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: those uh you know, talking heads who goes on TV

765
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: every day and you know, screams that the sky is falling.

766
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: When I talk about insurgency, I'm talking about the same

767
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: stuff that I experienced when I was interrack. How they

768
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: were armed groups who are forming in their local communities,

769
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: who you know, put on their own branding saying oh,

770
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: we're here to protect the public, when in fact they

771
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,479
Speaker 1: were there to violate human rights of those who who

772
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: you know, weren't part of their group. You know. Yeah,

773
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: so you know what's an insurgency, and insurgency UM is

774
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: a in organized group who's willing to use violence not

775
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 1: against not just against the government and representatives of government power,

776
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: be it you know, elected representatives or those in uniform

777
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: police or military, but they're also willing to use force,

778
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: violence threats against the American public. And and then that's

779
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: what we saw in January six. So the thing that

780
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: always frustrates me is like, you know, obviously it's almost

781
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: a cliche at this wee like to talk about the

782
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: shift of the Overton window between now and like say,

783
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: thirty forty years ago. Um. But the thing that always

784
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: gets to me is like what worries me is like

785
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: the stochastic terrorism aspect of things and lone wolves and

786
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: people just doing isolated acts and ship like that. But

787
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't I don't even think that we're

788
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: at a point where we're waiting for that sort of

789
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: stuff to start happening more. But it's like every other

790
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: mass shooter has some sort of links to be in

791
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: like a far right extremists or trumper or fascist or

792
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: want to be this. So it's like I don't understand

793
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: how well I mean, it's it's a rhetorical question, I

794
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: guess I'm asking, but it's like it frustrates me that

795
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: this hasn't like successfully stuck in a mainstream sort of way,

796
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, just for example, was it just

797
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: last Monday, like a literal a writer went on a

798
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: shooting spree in Denver? I mean, somebody who has like

799
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: eight hundred page all right manifesto printed like again cliches.

800
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: But if that was like a Black Lives Matter for guy,

801
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: or if that was a Nation of Islam guy, it

802
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: would be a much bigger deal than it is now.

803
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: So how do people who like are concerned about these things,

804
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: Like is there any sort of contribution that we can

805
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: get because to make things like the stick in the

806
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: national mind framer in the media escape. Because I mean,

807
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: for all the criticisms that we want to have of

808
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: establishment media, and there's there's endless and infinite criticisms to

809
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: go around, they can be useful in a case like

810
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: this too, you know what I mean. For they can't

811
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: be useful for propaganda, and we need we need, we

812
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: successful we need propaganda against the sort of things and

813
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: stuff like attaching the many crimes and like murders that

814
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: they're already doing before it reaches like a you know,

815
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: insane level. I don't understand how we're not able to

816
00:49:55,160 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: make those sticks. Yeah, yeah, I get that frustration. UM.

817
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: And you know, so what one of the things that

818
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: motivated me into this is like, I've I've always wanted

819
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: to serve my country and it's it's I did in

820
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: the military didn't work out so well. Since then, after

821
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: a few years of a dark period and recovery, UM,

822
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: you know, I've been working for nonprofits, veterans nonprofits, volunteering

823
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: a lot of my time and frankly like not making

824
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: any money doing it. UM. One of the things that

825
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: led me to become a researcher of any kind was

826
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: I was working in Vietnam Veterans America and found a

827
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: fake version of our Facebook page which had twice as

828
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: many followers, and it was backed up by three independent websites,

829
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: all with different U r l s, all branded with

830
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: Vietnam Veterans America, producing news and information about veterans benefits

831
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: like VA home loans, healthcare, and the latest on UM

832
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: bills that would help veterans who were exposed to Agent Orange,

833
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: like real true stuff. And then once in a while,

834
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: they would include UM a piece of manipulated news. UM

835
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: the most ingenious thing. I uh, I was impressed once

836
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: I figured out a that this wasn't just like a

837
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: rogue member of our organization trying to do a good thing,

838
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: and that it was malicious. I found a Facebook live

839
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: video that had been UM had been picked picked. They

840
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: picked out a local news coverage like a fifty eight

841
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: second clip from rural Massachusetts where in African American Vietnam

842
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Veterans monument. So a black Vietnam vets monument was defaced. Now,

843
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't like somebody took a chisel and hammer to

844
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: it or spray paint. It looked like some kid rubbed

845
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: some like red berries on it or something. But local news,

846
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: it's a story, you know, any time that there's like

847
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: a bad guy of any kind of conflict, that's what

848
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 1: they want to cover. Right. So this was a true

849
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: story where black veterans of Vietnam. Right, So those are

850
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: three distinct and important populations were targeted by an unknown actor.

851
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: So what this foreign entity did was it took this

852
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: fifty eight second video somehow tricked Facebook's algorithm into believing

853
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: that it was a live video and looped it for

854
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,959
Speaker 1: four hours and over the real chiron that says Black

855
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: Vietnam Veterans monument defaced, they put this meme style text

856
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: that said do you think the criminals must suffer? And

857
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: then encourage people to do the heart emoji for no

858
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: or the angry emoji for yes. So they're taking advantage

859
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: of Facebook's algorithm on so many levels, because clicking like

860
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: is one thing. Taking the extra time to click a

861
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: heart or an angry emoji shows more of an investment,

862
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: and Facebook's algorithm rewards that. So that entity ended up

863
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: being run out of Bulgaria. At the Facebook page was

864
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,720
Speaker 1: run out of Bulgaria if the websites were out of Russia.

865
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: UH and I spent the following two years investigating all

866
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: of the far all of the ways that foreign actors

867
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 1: target troops veterans in our families with UM online, So

868
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: everything from disinformation to identity theft, and the common thread

869
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: through all of it was UM was pushing veterans to extremes,

870
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: especially around issues of race, refugees, immigration, UM and they

871
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: would they would use these stupid slogans like veterans before

872
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 1: refugees or veterans versus m grants to divide Americans and

873
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: this Um, the years of research that I put into

874
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: that first report for Vietnam Veterans America. Today, I understand

875
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: it got me where I am today, but I feel

876
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 1: like years later I wasted my time spending so much

877
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 1: time looking outwardly because their goal was to radicalize Americans.

878
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: They they weren't solely responsible for the radicalization of America's Americans.

879
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: But at this point, the threats coming from outside our

880
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: country are not significant in in uh, in comparison to

881
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: domestic rats. You know, the cult of Trump is m

882
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: of Q and on of Marjorie Taylor Green and Matt Gates.

883
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: That is far more dangerous than anything the Russians ever

884
00:54:54,400 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: did to us. So where do you think it's heading? Um,

885
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: wait before before we get into that, because one of

886
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: the groups that we talked about on this episode is

887
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: a Patriot Front because they were in the news with

888
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 1: the march that they did recently. Um, are there any

889
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 1: other groups that you think should be on people's radar

890
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: or could you tell us more about Patriot Front and

891
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: what makes and particularly unique amongst the hate groups. So

892
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: Patriot Front is is really the group that got me

893
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: into going as far as I do in terms of

894
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: like joining these hate groups and sabotaging them. Um. It

895
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: came about because of a buddy of mine who I

896
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: served with in the army, who deployed in two thousand

897
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: seven and as a sniper. UM, he went through some

898
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: really tough stuff during the troops, surgeon to Iraq, came home.

899
00:55:55,640 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: He's now medically retired. The guys is brilliant. Um. He's

900
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, built like a brickshit house and he wants

901
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: to serve his country. But Iraq broke him in ways

902
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: that he will never be fixed. And he Um. Rather

903
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: than you know, wallow and sadness not being able to

904
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: do what he wants to do, he figured out another

905
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: way to serve his country. He randomly joined a hate group.

906
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: Called me up and said, hey, Goldie, I want you

907
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: to help me take down this neo Nazi group that

908
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: I just joined. Like there was that was the pitch.

909
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: There was no previous discussion and no idea. So fast

910
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: forward a year later, I get laid off due to

911
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: the COVID problem, UM, and I call him back up

912
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: and I'm like, all right, buddy, tell me about your

913
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: neo Nazis. And that ended up being the Patriot Front. Um.

914
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: It is the gen Z's take on the KKK. You know,

915
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 1: people who saw the photos and videos of of their

916
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: march and d C saw the white gator, the like

917
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: neck things that they pull up over their face. That's

918
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: just the modern day clanhood. Like, you know, we laugh

919
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 1: at them because they look goofy. They look like they're

920
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: you know a bunch of Best Buy managers with the

921
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: people that yeah and like, well the clan you know,

922
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: think about how goofy a bunch of people dressed like

923
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: ghosts slow, right, and and that part of that is deliberate, right.

924
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: So the uniform um, you know, if if you're if

925
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: you're a marine in the United States Marine Corps, you

926
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: have a great looking uniform and that uniform tells a

927
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: lot of things about you. The the the the stripes

928
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: on your shoulder tell you tell people you know, what

929
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: rank you are. The ribbons on your chest tell people

930
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: your resume, like what you've done, how much combat you've seen, etcetera, etcetera. Well,

931
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: the goofy Best Buy uniforms that Patriot Front are wearing,

932
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: they've they've got bell crow on stick or is that

933
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: show like the locations that they're from the rank within

934
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: the organization, all sorts of stuff that they understand but

935
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: we as outsiders don't necessarily recognize. Right, So they have

936
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: goofy uniforms, but they're signaling to one another there, you know,

937
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: allegiance to white supremacy and what they've done for for

938
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: the cause of advancing their racist um propaganda campaigns. Well,

939
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: something I want you to dig a little deeper on,

940
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: just because you know, um, I think sometimes it's seducing

941
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: to put racism and like hate and just all this

942
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: stuff that we're generally talking about and put it in

943
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: the box of you know, this is an old man sport,

944
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: like where you know what I mean, Ay, we're just

945
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: a generation away. They're dying out and then it's all

946
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: gonna be Kumbaya and flowers and stuff like that. So

947
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: the aspect of Patriot Front being a gen's the sort

948
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: of grouping like a youth movement almost in a way.

949
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: And even I noticed this online with you know, the

950
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: amount of young men who follow who Stephen Crowder and

951
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson and so on and so forth. So like,

952
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: can you can you talk a little bit more about

953
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: about it being like a gen Z thing? Like, how

954
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: are they using their gen z nous too? Like further

955
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: this really old, antiquated ideology. Yes, so the same way

956
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: that that millennials and older generations look at gen Z

957
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: and they're like, man, when these kids grew up with

958
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,439
Speaker 1: the Internet at their fingertips, they literally grew up with smartphones,

959
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: with tablets, uh with you know, not not like eight

960
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: bit computer games right like complex m m O RPGs,

961
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: like massive multi player online role playing games right there

962
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: the world that they grew up in, uh, through so

963
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: much information and at them, and we don't think about

964
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: the hard skill sets that come from daily life of

965
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: being a gen Z or connected to the internet. Gen

966
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: Z grew up watching Kim Kardashian go from some unknown

967
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: person who had a porn tape, uh, you know, mysteriously

968
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: leak to being one of the richest and most powerful

969
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: people on the planet. I mean, you know she's not

970
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: a politician, but you know she can she can make

971
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: a brand overnight, right Like she gets people to to

972
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: to act, she gets people to send their money, you

973
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: know whatever way to believe in causes. Well, so if

974
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: you're a gen Z kid and your dad's in the

975
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: KKK and you're growing up with those two influences. You've

976
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: got you know, Kim Kardashian on your phone, and you've

977
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: got Jim Bob, your your racist dad, like, you know,

978
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: influencing you and teaching you your so called values. You're

979
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: going to become a really effective propagandist. You know these

980
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: kids have have you know, basically you got a bachelor's

981
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: degree in marketing and communications. Just growing up as gen

982
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: z Like they understand what makes an engaging photo video

983
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: like that whole the Patriot Fronts march thing, like we

984
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: were all laughing at them. But people who are susceptible

985
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: to the the like whole wanting to fight for the

986
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: white race because you're a racist piece of ship thing like,

987
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: they love that stuff. So back to the question that

988
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: I cut you off, Um, where do you think this

989
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: is all heading? Because I mean, just to give you know,

990
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I don't think like a literal

991
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,959
Speaker 1: civil war is looming Like that sounds something like something

992
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: in a movie or a script or something like that. Um,

993
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: And I don't even really think that they mean civil

994
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: war when they talk about civil war, Like, I don't

995
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: think any of these guys are daydreaming about like urban

996
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: warfare with SWAT teams, like a warehouse matrix gun battle

997
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: with like Navy seals and stuff like I think they're

998
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,959
Speaker 1: talking about, Hey, let's go into a gay youth center

999
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: and shoot it up, you know, I mean, hey, let's

1000
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: go into a black church and kill everyone. Like so, like,

1001
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: where do you think it is? Headache? Um? So, if

1002
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: if you know, Patriot Front is able to operate completely unopposed,

1003
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: the Republican Party is going to adopt straight up, like

1004
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: real explicit white supremacy as their party platform, you know.

1005
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: And and like, yes, the Republican Party engages in a

1006
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: whole lot of that stuff, but most of it's masked

1007
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: and veiled. Not every member of the gop in Congress

1008
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: is as much of a piece of ship as like

1009
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: the guy Paul Gossar in Arizona who hangs out with

1010
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: Nick Fuentez and goes to neo Nazi conventions. Um, but

1011
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: we're you know, if people don't start actively opposing these

1012
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: folks and bringing it back to what we talked about before,

1013
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: are imposing negative externalities or finding them or panalizing them

1014
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,959
Speaker 1: for the negative externalities that they're bringing to the rest

1015
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: of society. That's that's the direction we're moving in. It's

1016
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: it's a the coup attempt that we saw in January

1017
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: six didn't stop on January six. You know, we are

1018
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: seeing the rewriting of laws that are disenfranchising entire populations

1019
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: of voters. UM. You know, that are making it so

1020
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: that we're going to live under the tyranny of the minority.

1021
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: And that's not like an if thing. You know, there's

1022
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: a very small chance that Democrats hold the House in

1023
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: when h McCarthy become Speaker of the House and guys

1024
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: like Paul Gosar are chairing committees, they're going to be

1025
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: shaping laws, running investigations, harassing UM federal agencies to the

1026
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: point that they can no longer protect the of the

1027
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: United States from violent domestic extremists. So, if some of

1028
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: anybody wants to help you and others in the fight

1029
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: against this ship, where can they go? What can they do? So?

1030
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: Spar Various is partnering with human rights first, It's it's

1031
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: a big nonprofit organization UM. They are primarily UM concerned

1032
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: with the settlement of refugees, with helping vulnerable populations, immigrations,

1033
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 1: and protect the human rights at home. And abroad. They

1034
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: created two programs. One is called Veterans for American Ideals,

1035
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: which was specifically made to help Iraq and Afghanistan interpreters

1036
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: and allies come into the United States to push for legislation,

1037
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: to push for administrative action to to help them get

1038
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: welcomed into United States. UH. And two is the Innovation Lab.

1039
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: So the Vation Lab at Human Rights First is developing

1040
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: technology that is UM that is meant to protect human rights.

1041
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: So that means UM, we're we've we've got a program

1042
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: where it can analyze hundreds of hours of YouTube videos

1043
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: and it can help us without having to have a

1044
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: human being watch all of those you know, shitty videos,

1045
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: help us understand how YouTube videos are being used to

1046
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: radicalize American youth for you know, other targeted populations. We've

1047
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: got software that analyzes videos that's meant to to detect

1048
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: state sponsored violence. So things like what we saw on

1049
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: in Lafayette Square when Trump ran across the street after

1050
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: having cops clear crowds that were you know, vast majority

1051
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: of completely peaceful with no warning. All of those videos, UH,

1052
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: we're putting into an ai UM an artificial intelligence program

1053
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: that is helping us learn how to detect police violence

1054
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: so that we can use that not just here state side,

1055
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: but overseas as well. So this the cool thing about

1056
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: what we're doing at Human Rights First in the Innovation

1057
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: Lab is we're making it so that the programs that

1058
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 1: we're developed will never be used by the government, They'll

1059
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: never be used by a foreign government, they will never

1060
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: be used by any actor who could use it to

1061
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: hurt vulnerable populations or to a road democracy. You know,

1062
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: we're going to make sure that it stays in the

1063
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 1: hands of journalists, m human rights activists, researchers and that

1064
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: type of thing. So if if people want to support us,

1065
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, you can check out and go to my

1066
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 1: website spar Various dot c O. You can search for

1067
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: me on on Twitter online Christopher Chris with a k

1068
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: old Smith. I'm pretty easy to find because my name

1069
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 1: is spelled weird um and go to Human Rights First

1070
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: and and poke around the website. Checkout Veterans for American Ideals,

1071
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: check out the Innovation Lab, you know, make a donation

1072
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: if if you want to support the work directly UM.

1073
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: And we're also at spar Various going to be training

1074
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: veterans to engage in the work that I do of

1075
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: of studying and exposing and disrupting extremist organizations. That's what's up. Yeah, hey,

1076
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: Christopher man, thank you for talking with us. Thanks a lot, brother. Alright,

1077
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: be easy, I'll let you down the down the jump,

1078
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 1: all right, all be good, all right. And that was

1079
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: Christopher Goldsmith, ladies and gentlemen. So as you guys can hear,

1080
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: he's out there actually doing the work and putting himself

1081
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: in harm's way to combat some of this stuff. Um

1082
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: just general really, you know, like as we wrap this up,

1083
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: um like what don't just overall? Where do you think

1084
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: this whole thing is heading? And my whole thing I

1085
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: just mean, because it's like we're in the midst of

1086
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: something new, you know, Like as Christopher was saying with

1087
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: the Patriot Friend group, is like these these these kids

1088
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: essentially have grown up in the era of like media

1089
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: and mass communications, and all of them technically have marketing

1090
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: and communications degrees just by growing up, you know what

1091
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So all of them are expert propagandas and

1092
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And with everything racing up, where do

1093
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: you where do you see it headed? Where do you

1094
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 1: think we are? If we were if we were to

1095
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: have a discussion about right wing extremism in the next

1096
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: like three years from now, where do you what do

1097
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: you think we're talking about? I think even the shorter

1098
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: charm than at like thinking about the next six months,

1099
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: we have a very short window in which um Democrats

1100
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: can enact bold transformative policies that substantively invest in communities

1101
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: as a way to both animate the electorate to come

1102
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: out and support them, to keep the fascist out of power.

1103
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 1: And as I was saying earlier in the show, those

1104
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: to have those investments also pay dividends for the people,

1105
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: for the like the white folks, the real estate to

1106
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 1: whoever who feel disenfranchised or like ideologically marginalized right now,

1107
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: for them for for that sort of investment, to see

1108
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: that kind of good and feel that kind of good,

1109
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, those tangible benefits in their lives. To cool

1110
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: down the currently very heated god political climate and the

1111
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: ways that it gives rides to violent extremism. Like we

1112
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: got honestly, you're talking about well three years and now

1113
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: like we got six months to like really really locked

1114
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: the ship down, start putting like you know, material needs

1115
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 1: of working people over civility and protocol fire the parliamentary

1116
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: and like and like and like try to try our

1117
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: best to buy ourselves more time through having a continued

1118
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: uh democratic control over that the three houses of government.

1119
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: That's what I see. I don't know what's gonna happen

1120
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: after that if we failed. I don't even know if

1121
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 1: that's going to completely solve the issue. But let's at

1122
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: least like, let's put a band aid on this for now,

1123
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: but at least delivering for the American people, trying to

1124
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: maybe keep the House and the presidency in and like

1125
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: just stave off the utter collapse for like a little

1126
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: bit longer. I guess I would. I would just say,

1127
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 1: is like I think we should all be easy on

1128
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: given a lot of these cats the benefit of the

1129
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 1: doubt and ship early. I don't know, at least for me,

1130
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 1: I'm at a point in life where I think that

1131
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 1: the stakes are so high that I'm just not willing

1132
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,600
Speaker 1: to put my life at risk by betting on some

1133
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: of these basic basic human commonalities and stuff like that. Like,

1134
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any right wingers out there.

1135
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: If there's a right winger out there that you can

1136
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 1: convince that Medicare for all is a good idea. They're

1137
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: not including me in that assessment, you know what I'm saying.

1138
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: If if like like like whatever economic anxiety that these

1139
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: cats are feeling, they're not like they're like, I don't

1140
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,759
Speaker 1: think that, Like I think you can find a mutual

1141
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: ground with them, only to a certain extent, because there's

1142
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 1: like a whole like subsect of the population that they're

1143
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: not considering or factoring to any of that good ship.

1144
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:56,560
Speaker 1: So like, like, I don't know how real that alliances

1145
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,679
Speaker 1: because I don't give them the benefit of the doubt,

1146
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: and I think that for the most part, they're lying,

1147
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I don't I don't know.

1148
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: I don't really think I believe that any of this

1149
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: ship is comprised of economic anxiety or only the liberal

1150
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: elites fly over us and look down, and you know

1151
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, I think a lot of that

1152
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: ship is lip service, and it's the lies that people

1153
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: tell themselves to justify in public the things that they

1154
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: want to do. Yeah, that's just me. That's just me.

1155
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: So I would just say that we should just proceed

1156
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: with caution, because like fascists are very aware of what

1157
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: they're doing, and they're very aware of how to use

1158
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: rhetoric and how to like deceive. It's like it kind

1159
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: of goes in the bag with being the fascist is

1160
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: like deception and ship like that. So we shouldn't let

1161
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: our good nature help these funs take over this ship,

1162
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:52,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and get their messages out.

1163
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 1: That's just that's just my two cents. I'm gonna go

1164
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: smoke l I think Joe is gonna bust a beat

1165
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: oh sope, yeah. Waiting a reparations yeo, yeo. I think

1166
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 1: these kids need a therapists embarrassed this Nazi what they

1167
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: help us, but various they're talking all that bullshit and

1168
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 1: I noticing how weird it is. Then they lose their

1169
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: job and they crash. It's hilarious. A couple of years

1170
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 1: ago they said the Jews will not replace it. Then

1171
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 1: they met the consequences were bruising guys are facing, so

1172
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: they had to switch their name up Patriots to stay front.

1173
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 1: Little teenagers have to run into the same truck like that.

1174
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: If Trump went again, they'll be right back. Replace the

1175
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: police uniform with khakis in a white mask. So if

1176
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: you want to be a blogger, that's fine, But I'm

1177
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: punching Hitler like, I'm Steve Rogerson's prime mofucker. Hey, my

1178
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: name's Dope Knife. I'm like, well, Franco, and we are

1179
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: waiting on reparations. We didn't even tell you the Happy

1180
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 1: New Year, you know, happy New Year. Stay safe out there,

1181
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 1: I really, honestly, hey, it's telling people to stay safe

1182
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: when the fucking federal government has abandoned. But do your best,

1183
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, try your best act pay for effort, kidsation

1184
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: trophy for trying to dodge the Rhona. So we will

1185
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: see you all next week. I'm Dope Knife waiting our reparations.

1186
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: You'll take it easy. Matrix movie That's Better Winning on

1187
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: Reparations is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

1188
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app,

1189
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.