WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Anonymity 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.160 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:13.720 stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.680 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.520 how Stuff Works in a love all things tech, and 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:25.000 welcome to another classic episode of tech Stuff. In this episode, 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.080 we talk about the concept of anonymity. Anonymity is one 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.480 of those things that the Internet was kind of built 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.080 off of, and there's been sort of a love hate 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:40.880 relationship between anonymity and the need to have some form 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:45.680 of accountability on the Internet. This episode originally published on 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:50.640 August two thousand eleven. It's one of the true classics 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.680 of tech Stuff. Chris Palette and I have this conversation. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:59.520 I hope you enjoy this discussion about anonymity. So we're 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.800 gonna talk today about anonymity and the web and its 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.280 relationship with one another and how things have been changing 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.400 over time. And this also ties a lot into a 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.039 privacy in the web. In fact, the two are these 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.880 topics are all very closely related. But um it's it's 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.880 been in the news a lot recently, and by recently 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.120 I mean the summer of of two thousand eleven because 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.040 of a couple of different things. First of all, a 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.200 couple of years ago you had um or it was 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.440 only a year ago, but you had Mark Zuckerberg say 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.919 that the the whole notion of privacy was falling out 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:41.000 of social norms, meaning that people today don't value privacy 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.760 or don't think of privacy is something that's important the 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.640 way that generations earlier had, uh you know, thought of 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.440 the subject. So uh, that was that actually kind of 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.520 explains a lot about certain things that Facebook has done 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.760 over the past, where you know, it's all about sharing information, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.640 particularly information about yourself and the things you like to 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:03.640 do in the places you like to go. And then 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:08.720 you know, the the argument I think someone at Facebook 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.839 would make is that the more you share, the more 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.079 you're going to get out of that service. So if 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.440 you do not share a lot, you won't really benefit 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.919 from the service the way you do if you are 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.200 someone who shares lots of stuff. Although even that, you know, 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.000 we could anyone could tell you if they have a 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:34.720 friend who shares absolutely everything that that can get old too. Yes. Sorry, Look, 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.519 I thought it was a particularly interesting bowl of oatmeal, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.320 so I shared it. Well, it's always nice to share otmeal. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.000 I don't know, but all right, anyway, we're getting off 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.320 track because I mean I just go back to the 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.760 Oatmeal party where Josh Clark did that well anyway, So 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:57.200 so Facebook's approach is saying that anonymity and privacy are 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.079 really kind of those are old ideas that we're slowly 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.680 seeing phase out. And then the other thing that kind 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:08.200 of brought this into attention was a Google launching Google Plus, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.280 and we did that episode on Google Plus, that epic 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.280 Google Plus episode. One thing we didn't really talk about 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.079 that much was that Google Plus. You know, in order 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:19.680 to have a Google Plus profile, you have to have 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.080 a Google profile. In order to have a Google profile, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.840 it has to be a Google profile that's public because 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.120 they eliminated all private Google profiles, And you had to 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:33.280 have a name associated with that profile. And it didn't 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.080 have to necessarily be your legal name, but it did 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:37.640 have to be the name that you go by the 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.120 most frequently. And so you would, you know, I have 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.000 to put a first name in a last name and 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.440 make it make it a legitimate name if it were 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:48.480 something that was clearly a handle or a nickname or 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.600 just unusual had some odd characters in it, like not 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.560 like you know, Alex from Clockwork Orange odd characters, but 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.080 like symbols like at symbols or hashtags or things like that. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.560 Um that Google would flag it and then Google would 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.640 suspend your Google Plus account. It is a darn good 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.480 thing that Prince decided to go back to being prince. Yeah, 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.000 well he the web's over compared if yes, Prince, So 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:22.080 it's immaterial for this discussion. Point yea irregardless um supposedly supposedly, 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.200 Uh yeah, anyway, if you if you put these these 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.480 symbols into your name, or you had some other weird 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.839 name going in there, Google might flag your account and 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:37.080 suspend it. Uh. They then later on kind of adjusted 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:38.359 that a little bit where they would give you a 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.760 warning saying you need to go into your Google profile 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.040 and put in your actual name, and you could add 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.400 in nicknames and stuff and another field called other names, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.760 but that the name associated with your profile would be 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.480 your real name. Now, that brought up some some questions 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.560 among a lot of users, and it ranges through the 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.280 whole spectrum. You've got the spectrum that includes people who 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.479 are know that their argument is that hey, I have 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:08.680 made a a name for myself under this persona. It's 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.000 like a brand. Yeah, a brand exactly. It's like a brand. 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.559 So um The example I used in my blog post 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.080 was Dr Kiki of Dr Kki Science. Yeah, she's she's 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.200 a scientist, um uh. And she is known as Dr Keiki. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.120 Her first name is I believe Kirsten. But but you know, 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.080 she that's not what everyone knows her as. So she 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:37.320 created a Google profile using Dr Kiki and um uh, yes, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.479 Kirsten Sandford. That's her name, Dr Kirsten Sandford. So she 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.000 went she goes as everyone knows her is Dr Kiki, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.839 So that's what she created a Google profile as. But 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.320 she her Google Plus profile was suspended because it did 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.479 it violated the rules that Google had set up. And 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.240 Google's argument was that he wanted to create a social 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.960 network that would let people connect with folks they know 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.279 and folks they know of easily, and that that if 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.080 you start putting in handles and things and you're cloaking 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.120 your identity, that's kind of antithetical to what Google meant 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.080 Google Plus two be. The problem is that's not the 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.159 way people use the web. You know, people use the 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.799 web in all sorts of different ways. There are people 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.920 who will use their own names as their handles. For example, 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.000 I'm one of those people. I use my own name 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.360 as my handle pretty much everywhere, and uh, the reason 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.240 for that is so that I keep myself accountable for 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.080 the things I say. It's a personal choice. I don't 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.839 judge anyone else who goes by a handle. I totally 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.000 understand that, and I think anonymity is an interesting and 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.839 important issue. I just, for myself choose to use my 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.599 own name because one, uh, that's kind of my brand. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.560 It's my name at this point. If I had gone 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:57.880 by some other weird, wacky name, I'd probably be using 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.159 that everywhere. But to you know, it's just again, it 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.520 just keeps me responsible for the things I say. I'm 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.760 less likely to say something really offensive or outrageous or 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.280 just pigheaded because it's attached to my name, and I'm 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.880 not gonna go onto some forum and and tell off 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.000 the person who posted above me that they're a complete 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.120 jerk and an idiot. And you know, I'm I'm less 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.160 likely to do that. I still do it, I just 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.280 don't do it as frequently as I would if I had. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.400 You know, you know, hamster Man seventy three was my handle, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.440 and no one knew that that was me. But we 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.480 all know now, well I don't post under that handle anymore. 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.320 You won't find those YouTube comments coming from me anymore. Buster. Yeah, 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.600 well it's funny. Um you need to it's weird to 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.400 put this in perspective, so you know, to some degree, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.200 I think online Mark Zuckerberg has a point. We've gotten 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:58.160 to the point where we're interested in social networking. Um. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.920 We have business profiles on link den dot com. We've 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.920 got uh, Facebook, Twitter, Google Plus and all the others 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.160 for our social fun you know, our our informal networking, 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:15.560 in some case business networking too. Um and And it's hard. 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.160 It's when you've gotten used to the idea of the 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.840 right to privacy, which, um, you know here in the 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.320 United States we have a certain expectation of personal privacy, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.920 um and not that's not necessarily true everywhere else in 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.120 the world. But when you've established all these accounts and 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.480 you say, no, I just want to be online and 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.480 have my uh my ten family members and sixty friends, 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:40.520 and that's it. That's all I want on my account. 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.400 I don't want everyone else to read my posts. Why 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.840 are you making them available? Um? The thing is, Mark 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.120 has a point because if you, you do have that 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.720 right to privacy. But when you join Facebook, the point 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.880 is to be social, and I, you know, I don't 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.320 want I'm one of those people that would prefer to 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.559 socialize with people I know in real life and not 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.200 you know, everybody online that I that I really don't 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.800 know that well. But at the same time, you know, 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.840 if if I joined Facebook and I don't have, you know, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.360 I have to play the rules, by the rules of Facebook, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.920 and if Facebook says on Facebook, you don't have the 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.839 right to privacy. And to the same extent, I mean, 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.160 you're you're everyone can see you. Now. You don't have 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.560 to publish your stuff so that the world can read 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.439 every single post you write, but everybody's going to be 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.000 able to see that you have a profile. And that's 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.240 just the way it is on Facebook. And um, you know, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.520 I I see the annoyance, but I don't see why 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.640 people get so very angry simply because you've you're you're 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.920 agreeing to the terms of service for joining those accounts. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.560 And that's one of the reasons I wasn't anxious to 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.880 uh join Google Plus right away. It was because I 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:51.720 realized that I was gonna have to make my profile 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.400 public and everybody was going to be able to see 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.360 it was me, And um, you're not allowed to use 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.240 your nickname because I mean, not only is that against 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.160 the rules, but it also shows up against your account. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.760 So if I wanted to be Larry the Wonder Beagle, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.120 then all my email on Gmail comes from Larry the 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:10.800 Wonder Beagle, and I don't want to do that because 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.680 I keep in touch with you. You would essentially have 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.000 to create a second Gmail account just for your Google 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.160 Plus profile in that case, which you could theoretically do, 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.480 although you're again kind of skirting the rules there. Yeah. Yeah, so, 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.439 I mean that's and it would be annoying because you 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.560 always have to log out of one account and log 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.320 into the other whenever you wanted to check your quote 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:33.120 unquote real email. Yeah, exactly. It's a it's a pain 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.160 in the neck. But the thing is, and again, this 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.760 has nothing to do with the actual law. This has 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.360 to do with the terms of service of the website 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.920 you're using, and it is it is frustrating. Hey guys, 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.640 it's Jonathan back in two thousand and eighteen. I just 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.920 wanted to interrupt here to say we need to have 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:59.400 a quick break to thank our sponsor. I think there 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.080 are some people who who agree, like, all right, I 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.360 get it. If I want to be on blah blah blah, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.280 I have to play by their roles. I think the 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:13.120 fear is that the approach to eliminating anonymity entirely, they're 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.280 they're worried about that being more of a broad approach 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.400 to the web in general. Yeah, and I worry about 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.760 that too. Yeah, that's something that I'm not interested because 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.840 because that would be let's let's say that Twitter made 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.840 that same same decision that your Twitter handle had to 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.640 be your first and last name. Now for me, it 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.000 happens to be that, but the shortened version of my 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.760 first name because Jonathan Strickland does not fit as a 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:41.280 full Twitter handle. Um, so you know, Johnny cakes, that's me. No, 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.120 it's not, It's not really me anyway, so the cake 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.720 cake I prefer pie anyway. If Twitter did that, then 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.080 you know, you think about that there there, We've seen 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:57.240 Twitter being used in things like a political revolutions, you know, 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.800 political unrest, turmoil, riots, that kind of thing, protests, uh, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.400 situations where the people who are organizing it definitely would 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.280 not want their their identity shared with the general public 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:15.080 because it would put themselves in danger, literal physical danger, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.760 and it would it would help prevent them from doing 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.800 the the political activist work they were trying to do. 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.280 Like if they were to post something and it was 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.640 traced back to their identity, they could be you know, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.640 theoretically by by an oppressive government brought in and then 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.280 not only do you have a person brought in by 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.200 the same government they were trying to protest, but whatever 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.440 activities they were trying to organize have been, um, you know, 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:45.599 have been somewhat well sidetracked, have been have been sabotaged 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.040 exactly because you no longer have that anonymity. And so 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.720 there is a definite place for anonymity on the web. 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.760 So you here here, Like, let's talk about some of 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.640 the different arguments that people make for and against anonymity. Okay, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.040 so we've already covered one of them, which is that, 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:03.720 you know, if you want to be able to connect 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.280 with people, you need to be able to know who 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.640 to look for. And it's kind of hard to look 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.920 for someone if everyone's using up fake names everywhere. So 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:15.400 that's one argument against anonymity. Um another is another argument 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:20.240 against anonymity is that, uh, making someone use their own 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.439 name kind of the way I was explained my own 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:27.280 personal approach, uh, keep some somewhat accountable for their words 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.800 and actions. So, in other words, the idea is that 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.960 if you make sure that people cannot be anonymous, you 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.760 really cut back on trolling. That's that's ultimately what we 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.920 get down to. So can you imagine what a place 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.920 YouTube would be if everyone had to use their real 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.520 names and like there was a way of really linking 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.360 an account to an actual person as opposed to just 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.920 a handle, because I mean, you look at some of 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.239 the quotes on YouTube, and they are some of the meanest, nastiest, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.240 mean spirited stuff I've ever read anywhere, and just on 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.120 the typical video even you know something that a video 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.040 that has no objectionable material in it, it's just silly, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.199 or it's or it's even you know, even if it's boring. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.640 Sometimes you kill the nastiest responses. And so the argument 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.360 is that, well, if you made sure that people could 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.960 not be anonymous, couldn't hide behind a pseudonym or a handle, 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.680 that they would be nicer. And that's probably true for 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.520 most people, they would probably be nicer. I don't think 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.560 that it would magically make the web a shiny, happy 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.280 place and no one would ever disagree with anyone, and 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.600 you would never have anyone call anyone else a hurtful 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:42.160 name or anything that's naive. That would still happen, but 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.720 I think it would cut down quite a bit on 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.760 the trollish behavior. But I don't know that the trade 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.080 off is worth that, you know, So anyway, those are 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.920 those are two arguments against anonymity. But one that we've 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.760 mentioned already is what if you want to be able 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.680 to protest something or to bring attention to an issue 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.960 that could get yourself in trouble, um, just because of 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.360 your circumstances. That's true, um. And then there's a difference 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.360 to I mean, we could take, uh, we could take 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:19.040 specifically the the example of Google itself. So on the 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.520 one hand, you've got Google Plus, which is a social 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.760 networking service that is optional for you to join you 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.080 if you if you want to join the service. Currently 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.320 as of the time we're recording this, you have to 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.680 use your real name and that's up to you. You 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.400 do not have to join Google Plus. Then you have 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:43.560 Google street View. On the other hand, and this again 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.960 long term listeners will know that We've talked about this 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.600 before on the on previous podcasts. So Google street View 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.600 the idea of being that Google is sending cars on 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:59.000 driving around neighborhoods, driving on city streets, um, and basically 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.280 they take pana ramic photos of the street so you 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.680 can see I personally find it really helpful when I'm 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.280 looking for a business that I've never seen before. I'm 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.440 trying to get there and you can go look it 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.160 up online and see a picture of what it looks like. Oh, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.320 it's the green building, and you can pan around and 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.320 see what the surrounding buildings are and you can you 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.560 get an idea for the landmarks. Yes, it's it's it's 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.800 really a neat idea, a concept on the table right 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.760 there is a neat idea, especially when you apply to 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:28.800 things like I want to take a virtual tour of 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.080 a city I've never been in, and you could literally 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:32.960 do that if you have a fast enough connection to 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.240 the Internet and a good processor, then yeah you can. 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.200 You can you know, navigate through street View and go 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.040 down streets in cities just as if you were there, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.680 um without the like, you know, you can stroll down 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.320 New York City at night without worrying about getting bugged. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.680 So I don't think it'd be at night. Well, no, 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.600 but it would. It would be kind of hard to see. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.040 But um, and there are there are many funny stories 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.200 about Google street View, the cameras getting knocked off by 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.720 low bridges and people doing crazy things. People hearing that 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.840 street view was coming through, so they arrange for some 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:10.240 sort of bizarre demonstration or or sword fire mooning, you know, 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.840 all kinds of stuff. But the thing is to people 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:18.200 complain that they're taking photos of their houses without any permission. 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.360 It's an invasion of privacy, as the argument. Yes, um, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.840 and so there you go. You you you know, suddenly 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.720 your house is there and you can't opt out of it. Yeah. Yeah, 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.560 so you know. Plus there are many many phone directories 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:36.800 with with information in there. Uh they scrape phone books 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.959 and you know their of course legitimate phone books as 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.520 well phone directories online. So if you put two and 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.159 two together, you can figure out where somebody lives and 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:45.959 what their house looks like. Yeah. Now, if you've, if 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.360 you've managed to stay unlisted and everything, then there may 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.000 not be a connection between you the person and your 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.399 wherever you call home. So but for the majority of people. 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.760 I think, yeah, you know, with a little snooping, you 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.480 could easily figure out where someone lives, and then through 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.800 street view you can see you can actually see their 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.159 their house, which I mean, you know, you can argue, 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:10.119 well that let's let's let's potential thieves case the joint 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.479 without ever leaving, um, leaving wherever they are. You know 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.480 they can they can look it up and then get 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.119 a real good view at least to the front of 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.000 the house, maybe even the back of the house, depending 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.640 on how your neighborhoods laid out. And you could use 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.960 the satellite view in in one of the mapping services 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.240 or in Google Earth to get an idea of the 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.119 lay of the lands. So it's you know, it's one 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.280 of those arguments where you make well, this this can 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.439 make us less safe and and there that is a 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.880 good argument for anonymity, saying that, well, I understand that 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.679 there are uses for this technology and that um that 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.359 it can come in handy and it's a fun technology, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.680 but there are also some serious consequences or there can 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:55.439 be serious consequences to enabling this technology and immediately opting 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.000 everyone in. It's not like you had a choice as 0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.720 far as street view is concerned. I mean, there are 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.680 some very famous cases of towns that the essentially told 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.960 Google to go uh google themselves and get the heck 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.200 out of Dodge, although Dodge was not one of those towns. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.000 Well yeah, and some gated communities places like that. In course, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.239 in in Europe, there have been many cases, um, in 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.879 different countries in Europe where uh, you know, they they've 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.000 taken Google to court and said, you do not have 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.000 the authority to do this, um, you know, because it 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:32.280 violates our country's privacy laws. So um, you know, it's 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.200 it's it's difficult, you know, on on, but it's there 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.359 is a definite difference in um, you know, things like 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.600 being signing up to be unlisted from your phone company 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:48.320 and deciding to opt out of social networking services versus um, 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.239 you know, what other people post about you online. And 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.680 that's another thing too. You you can't control what other 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.560 people do, um not yet, but I'm working on it. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.679 That's why I brought a crown in today. Yeah he did, 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.240 sitting right on the table right between us right now. Um. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.120 But yeah, I mean, you know, I've had pictures tagged 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.800 on Facebook, um, and you know, with my name on them, 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.119 and I'm kind of the point where I try to 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.119 avoid having that done, and I go and remove the 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.760 tags simply because I'm less comfortable being public than other 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.680 people there. But I can that I think there's this, well, 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.600 I'm pretty sure actually that Facebook has in its privacy 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.000 settings a setting where you can go in and make 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.200 sure that if someone wants to tag you in a 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.080 photo that it has that requests your permission before the 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.080 tag goes public. So you can actually tweak that setting, 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.880 although like all Facebook privacy settings, it's not the easiest 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.280 thing to find. You have to kind of do a 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.159 little digging. Um. Google Plus is is kind of the 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.439 same way in a sense, it's a lot easier to 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.280 control who sees your information when you use Google Plus 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.119 because you can just at every stage you can determine 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.960 which bits of information are visible to others and which 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.840 ones aren't and uh, and you can specify you know, 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.959 which users can see it, like a circle or just 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.119 a specific user. But even so, it's it's still a 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.600 lot of stuff to wade through. Hey, guys, Jonathan two 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.679 thousand eighteen, present day, looking back on the past. Before 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.160 we conclude this discussion about anonymity, let's take another quick 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:32.560 break to thank our sponsor. Another thing about well, another 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.240 argument you can make against anonymity. We we've already touched 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.120 on this about the trolling, but if you really want 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.399 to see and I don't recommend you do this, but 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.560 if you if you want to see what the power 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:47.239 of anonymity, you can go to a uh community like 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.560 community like four chan. Yes, now, four chan is we've 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.919 talked about before. It's a it's a message board that 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.960 allows you to post things anonymously. You don't have to 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.960 create an account. You can create a handle and you 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:04.760 can either use the same handle or you can use 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:06.560 a different handle every time you log in if you 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.119 want to. Um, Actually, that would probably make you less 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.160 likely to be traced because you're using a different one. 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.760 You're not creating an identity for yourself. Is there a 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.000 spout too, or just a handle? It's just a handle. 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.400 It's actually two handles. I'm a sugar dish um. So 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.919 the the idea here, but four chann is that you 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.919 can share stuff without ever having to to link it 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.440 back to yourself personally. And they actually have a couple 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:35.639