1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: job in Strickland. I am an executive producer. That's what 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: says here on this business card for let's see, I 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: heart radio and I love all things tech. It is 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: time for a classic episode of tech Stuff. This episode 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: originally published on April fourteen. It is called How Hydrogen 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: Fuel Works, Part two. So if you haven't listened to 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: part one, go check out last week's classic episode that 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: was part one. This is the second part of that, 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: so let's learn more about hydrogen fuel. So we left 12 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: off around the eighteen hundreds eighteen twenties specifically, and we 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: were coming up on eighteen thirty nine, is our next 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: day on our timeline, where in Sir William Grove invented 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: what was essentially the first fuel cell, although he didn't 16 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: call it that. It was called a gas voltaic battery. 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: Based on what he knew about electrolysis, which is the 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: process where you apply electricity to water and separate it 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: into its constituent elements, being hydrogen and oxygen, he hypothesized 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: that you could go the opposite way, that you could 21 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: combine hydrogen oxygen gases to create an electric current plus water. YEP, 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: that's which is exactly the very basis of fuel cells. 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: And we'll talk a lot more about fuel cells as well. 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: And then we get to the eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies, 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: and that's when a certain in a auto O T 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: t O. He's the guy who created the first four 27 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: stroke combustion cycle. We actually call it the auto cycle. 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: Use synthetic gas for fuel. Now, it's believed, it's not 29 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: fully documented, but believed that this gas was at least hydrogen, 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: probably more than that. Now. He reportedly also experiment with gasoline, 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: but he dismissed it because he felt it was too 32 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: dangerous to work with. This is coming from the guy 33 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: who's using hydrogen. Oh I, gasoline is scary. Well, to 34 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: be fair, they had not yet invented the carburetor, and 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: the carburetor is what makes gasoline really a useful fuel 36 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: for engines. I'll talk a little bit about that in 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: a second. And it's really the only thing holding back 38 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: Michael Bay. Yes, exactly. Well, if you listen to our 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: last episode, you'll realize that Michael Bay being allowed to 40 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: make cars is a terrible terrible mistake that we cannot 41 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: allow half to happen. Also, movies, you shouldn't be allowed 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: to do those either, so neither. The four stroke combustion 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: cycle is what most cars today are based on. So 44 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: if you listen to our last episode, you heard me 45 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: talk about the vacuum based engine where it creates. It 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: creates this expanding gas, and as the gas cools and 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: is released, it creates a vacuum which pulls the piston 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: that allows you to do work. Yeah, it's it's not 49 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: that practical, but this one was very practical. And this 50 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: one involves pushing rather than pulling. So for the whole thing, 51 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: you have a piston that is uh inside a chamber, right, 52 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: you have a combustion chamber. The piston can be all 53 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: the way in the chamber, in which case it's closed off, 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: or it could be all the way up to the 55 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: very other end of the chamber where it's all open. 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: You've got an open space there. The other end of 57 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: that piston is attached to a crank that can rotate. 58 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: So when the crank is in the upward position, the 59 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: pistons pushed all the way in. When the crank is 60 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: in the downward position, the pistons pulled all the way 61 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: out and as it rotates, the piston can move in 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: and out. So here's how this four stroke combustion cycle works. 63 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: You have the four different phases. You have the intake. 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: Now this stage, the piston, which is attached to that 65 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: crank is at the top of the cylinder and intake 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: valve opens and this inserts a mixture of fuel and 67 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: air into the cylinder. That crank turns and the piston 68 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: moves down, so you start getting this chamber filled with 69 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: this mixture of air and fuel. Next, you have the 70 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: compression stage. This is where the valve shuts off, so 71 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: it can't it's not bringing in any gas, it can't 72 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: let any gas out. But the crank continues to turn, 73 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: pushing the piston up, and that compresses the mixture of 74 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: fuel and air exactly, so you know you've got this 75 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: very compact gas, this mix of fuel and air together. This, 76 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: by the way, is the same for hydrogen based combustion 77 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: engines as well as gasoline based, same same principle. So 78 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: you've got this compressed mixture of air and gas. Then 79 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: you have the combustion phase. This is where you get 80 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: a spark and that ignites that fuel and air mixture, 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: which then rapidly expands it essentially explodes. Okay, so you've 82 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: got this explosion which then pushes against the piston that 83 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: drives it downward turning the crank. Then you have an 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: exhaust phase where an exhaust valve opens up and all 85 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: that exhausted air and fuel mixture gets vented out while 86 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: the piston starts to move back up and then you 87 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: start all over. So once you get this going, it 88 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: just keeps moving that crank around and that's where you 89 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: get the power to do stuff like move your wheels. 90 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: So you know, engines have various different numbers of cylinders. 91 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: You probably heard things like V eight. That's that's the 92 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: configuration of cylinders and the number of cylinders there are. Technically, 93 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: the more cylinders you have, the more power you're generating. 94 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: Up to about twelve cylinders. At that point you kind 95 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: of start getting into a wash. You have a diminishing 96 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: the law of diminishing returns, that kind of thing. But 97 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: this is the basis, and this is what made internal 98 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: combustion engines useful. Before that, you had external combustion engines, 99 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: which you know, first you would think that makes it 100 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: sound like there's gonna be all these explosions everywhere, But no, 101 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: we're talking things like steam engines stuff like that. We 102 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: actually had open flame boiling up steam so that you 103 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: could generate this this same sort of power, because you know, 104 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: the steam would push pistons too. We talked all about 105 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: that in Yeah, it's pretty much that's the way of 106 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: the world, speaking of steam. Our friend Jules Verne, Wow, 107 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy four. Yeah, Jules Verne, so the the famed writer, 108 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: the one of the earliest in I don't know if 109 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: you call it science fiction of that era, but it's 110 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: certainly the precursor to modern science fiction and what a 111 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: lot of stuff like steampunk is based upon. So Jules 112 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: Verne wrote in The Mysterious Island a prediction. Now, granted, 113 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: this is a prediction within the context of a work 114 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: of fiction. I say that because as a Shakespearean I 115 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: get really irritated people who attribute a quote to Shakespeare 116 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: when really it's one of Shakespeare's characters. But anyway, so 117 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: what he said in The Mysterious Island was that one 118 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: day water itself would be widely used as fuel by 119 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: breaking it down into hydrogen and oxygen. So it was 120 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: a very you know, futuristic kind of of of vision 121 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: he had, but also a realistic one. It wasn't one 122 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: outside the realm of possibility. Oh yeah, Sharon, it was. 123 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: It was almost thirty years after Sir William Grove had 124 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: had made those those hypotheses and then proved them about 125 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: the opposition of electrolysis. Yeah. Yeah, So it was an 126 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: interesting science thing that he picked up, and it's now 127 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: seeping into the public consciousness because now you've got it 128 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: popularized by fiction as well as in the scientific literature. Uh. 129 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: In the eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties, you had several 130 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: engineers working independently and they all came up with this 131 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: idea for the carburetor. The reason why I have it 132 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: worded this way is because if you ask people who 133 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: invented the carburetor, you get into a lot of flame wars, 134 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: not literally, the figurative kind of flame war. That's good, 135 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: and I'm glad. I would hope they don't battle it 136 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: out with flamethrowers or something. I actually kind of hope that. 137 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: Does that make me a bad person. I'm not going 138 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: to comment one way or the other. For fear of 139 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: you turning a flamethrower on me. So yeah, this, uh, 140 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: this is where you Depending upon whom you ask, you 141 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: get a lot of different answers about who actually invented 142 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 1: the carburetor. But the carburetor's purpose is to mix together 143 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: gasoline with air to run an engine safely and efficiently. Now, 144 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: this invention made gasoline powered internal combustion engines possible. They 145 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: made it made them practical. So because of this attention, 146 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: starts to shift away from hydrogen and towards gasoline because 147 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: gasoline was easier to come by. Uh, you could use 148 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: as a fuel now with this way, instead of trying 149 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: to just use pure gasoline. So uh, that's kind of 150 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: why the hydrogen based car, I would say. I would argue, 151 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: this is the big reason why the hydrogen based car 152 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: didn't become the car like that, it didn't become the 153 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: way we used vehicles and why gasoline ended up taking over. 154 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: So eight nine we have Ludwig Mond and Car Longer 155 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: who actually coined the term fuel cell and their version 156 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: used cold gas and air as the fuel. So we've 157 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: talked to a couple of times mentioned fuel cells, like 158 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: twice already in this podcast. Yeah, so let's talk a 159 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: little bit about how they work. Yeah. So, basic idea 160 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: is that you've got two compartments, two chambers, and into one. 161 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: This is this is for a hydrogen based fuel cell, 162 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: which is what most of the fuel cells we talk 163 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: about are. You put in one chamber hydrogen, pure hydrogen. 164 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: You put in the other chamber pure oxygen. Between the two. Yeah, yes, 165 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: ideally you could meddle with this, but then the byproducts 166 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: you get afterward are more than what a pure hydrogen 167 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: based fuel cell would do. So then you put between 168 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: the two a semipermeable membrane that's coated with a catalyst. 169 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: And a catalyst is essentially something that makes other stuff 170 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: happen or makes it happen more easily. Now, the hydrogen 171 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: cannot pass through the semipermeable membrane unaltered. The only way 172 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: it's going to be allowed to get into the party 173 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: with all of its oxygen buddies is to shed a 174 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: pesky electron. And if you remember from our last podcast, 175 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: what's the hydrogen atom. It's a proton and electron. So 176 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: that's it. So you want to get hydrogen ions, they 177 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: have to ditch their electron buddies and then they get 178 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: on across the the semipermeable membrane. They're fine, they can 179 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: go join their oxygen buddies. All those electrons start to 180 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 1: build up. They don't like each other. Okay, they're all 181 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: negatively charged, their negative nancy's. They don't want to be there. 182 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: They want to get out of that and head over 183 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: to the other side of the party where at least 184 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: there's some tolerable elements and ions hanging out and not 185 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: all these just electron jerks. So if you create a 186 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: pathway from the hydrogen side to the oxygen side, then 187 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: they're going to take it because now they've got a 188 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: way to get away from all these other jerks. And 189 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: if you force them to do a little bit of 190 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: work along the way, yeah, then they're like, you know, 191 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: I don't like doing this work, but I'm totally gonna 192 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: do it if it means like I want to get 193 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: into that party. Uh So, if this sounds like and 194 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: you know what happens when you put a battery in 195 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: a circuit, that's essentially what we're talking about here. We're 196 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: talking about creating a circuit, a pathway for electrons to 197 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: follow to go from an area of negative concentration to 198 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: an area where there are positive holes, that's what we 199 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: usually call them, for the electrons to fill. So we 200 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: create this this pathway. The electrons from the hydrogen side 201 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: will go through it do work enter in on the 202 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: oxygen side where the hydrogen ions already are start to 203 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: recombine with these things, which then forms water. So the 204 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: output you get from your typical hydrogen oxygen fuel cell, 205 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: assuming you're using pure hydrogen and pure oxygen, is electricity, water, 206 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: and heat. That's it. Fantastic technology. There are some there's 207 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: some drawbacks. One of the big ones is that the 208 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: materials tend to be really expensive. The catalysts tend to 209 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: be things like platinum, which don't know if you've priced 210 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: it recently, it's it's pricey. Yeah, yeah, it's a little 211 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: on the deer side. Now we're talking about nanoparticles of platinum, 212 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: so a little goes a long way. But still it's 213 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: really expensive and it's expensive to separate hydrogen out from 214 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: anything that it is connected to. Right, you could say, well, 215 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: why don't you just separate out from water, Well, you're 216 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: making water too. You're actually you'd be spending more energy 217 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: trying to get the hydrogen out that way. Now, if 218 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: you were able to harness some other form of electricity 219 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: to do the work for you, Like let's say you 220 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: had a solar panel farm and that solar panel farm 221 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: was generating electricity solely for the purpose to separate out 222 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: hydrogen from oxygen and water, and then you harvested the 223 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: hydrogen and use that in your fuel cells. That's a 224 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: possible solution. It would be, you know, a complicated infrastructure, 225 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: but it's workable, and in fact, that's one of the 226 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: things Toyota is looking at. They're also looking at harnessing 227 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: wind power to do the same sort of thing, So 228 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: finding the renewable energy sourced so that you can produce 229 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: this hydrogen, because otherwise you're just spending more than what 230 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: you're making, and then again we're at that losing proposition. 231 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: It is. It is one of the one of the 232 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: several problems with fuel cells. But but we'll get a 233 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: little bit more into that later on. We've got more 234 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: to say about hydrogen fuel in just a minute. But 235 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break. All right, we're back, 236 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: Uh what year is it now? It is? Okay, we're 237 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: gonna talk about a Scott Now a Scottish chemist named 238 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: James Doer, who used regenerative cooling and of vacuum flask 239 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: to liquefy hydrogen at the Royal Institution of Great Britain 240 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: in London. Now that next year he even managed to 241 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: go a step further and reduce the temperature enough so 242 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: that he could solidify hydrogen. Now you might wonder how 243 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: cold are we talking about here? That happens at a 244 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: temperature of negative three two degrees fahrenheit or negative two 245 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty nine point nine degrees celsius. And I 246 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: think even our friends to the Great White North could 247 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: agree that that's pretty chilly. I was out at like 248 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: at like five fahrenheits yeah, I'm like, yeah, you know, 249 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: I gotta cover my tomatoes when it gets down to sixty. 250 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: So we're kind of joking. But but so more about 251 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: this vacuum flask. This thing is the coolest thing. I mean, 252 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: I don't didn't mean to make a pun, but it's 253 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: I never believe you when you say that. I really, 254 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: as I was saying it, I was judging myself. So 255 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: if that makes you feel any better. It's a double 256 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: walled flask, so you think of it as two flasks, 257 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: one slightly smaller one and set inside the slightly larger one, 258 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: and that space between the larger one the smaller one 259 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: is completely evacuated of all material. So it's it's a vacuum, right, 260 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: You've got a vacuum between those two sides. Now, what 261 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: this does is it allows you to insulate whatever material 262 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: is on the inside that flask from the outside environment. 263 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: It does not conduct heat very well at all. Therefore, 264 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: you can conduct experiments at particular temperatures. Yeah, you can 265 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: have low temperature experiments where you just keep reducing the 266 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: temperature and you don't have to worry about the heat 267 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: from the outside environment, because then then you would never 268 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: get anything cold enough to be able to do this 269 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: stuff like liquefying hydrogen. I mean, you've got to get 270 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: it really cold, and any sort of environmental heat is 271 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: going to immediately move from an area of high concentration 272 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: to an area of low concentration. That's kind of what 273 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: it does, sort of what thermodynamics do, you know. So 274 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: the other thing is that it also is really good 275 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: at keeping hot stuff hot, so you know, like a 276 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: like a thermos. You know, it's it's because again it's 277 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: not allowing the heat from the inside of the flask 278 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: to leak out into the outside environment. Gradually it will 279 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: still cool down or the stuff inside will gradually still 280 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: get warm. Because it's not a perfect system. At the 281 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: neck of this flask, that's where the weak point is 282 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: because at some point those two the inner and outer flask, 283 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: have to join together. You can't. You can't just magically suspended. 284 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: So there are some weak points in this. It's not 285 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: a perfect system, but it does work really, really well. 286 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: Now let's go to one of my favorite parts of 287 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: the podcast, because this is where we get to talk 288 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: about some incredible music. Because in n that's when Count 289 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: Ferdinand Vaughan led Zeppelin launched the first hydrogen filled rigid 290 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: airship called a Ferdinand and just just just von Zeppelin. 291 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't vun lead Zeppelin. That my musical past has 292 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: betrayed me once again. Well, no, of course, we don't 293 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: call them the Ferdinands. We call them Zeppelin's. Yes, but 294 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: they were not made out of lead. I guess maybe 295 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: some of the material might have been lead. I could 296 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: have been low lead, maybe spandex or hair. Okay, that's fair, yeah, alright, 297 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: So but anyway, this. This was the hydrogen filled rigid airship. 298 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: These are those dirigibles that you've seen in the past 299 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: and were majestic vehicles. But we'll get into why we 300 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: don't really see those anymore in just a couple of years. Certainly, 301 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: although I believe that hydrogen was being used, I think 302 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: he was German, and I think Germany was using hydrogen 303 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: at the time because the United States was holding a 304 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: great amount of the helium in the world at the time, 305 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: and hydrogen was kind of considered the next best thing, 306 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: right because you know, both hydrogen and helium have this 307 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: lifting property being being lighter than air. Sure, so so 308 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: these Zeppelins might have been using something slightly less combustible 309 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: like helium if they had had the opportunity to helium, 310 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: by the way, significantly less combustible as in not but 311 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: but yes, hydrogen. Yeah, I mean, you use whatever you 312 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: have available, and that's exactly what they did. Five we 313 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: have Henry Garrett, who is was rather an American inventor 314 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: who created an automobile that quote unquote ran on water. 315 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: So this is where a lot not all of them, obviously, 316 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: but a lot of conspiracy theories about uh big car 317 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: companies or big oil companies pushing down all these inventions 318 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: that ran quote unquote ran on water. A lot of 319 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: them come from this kind of thing. There are some 320 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: there's some truth to vehicles that used water as a 321 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: component for fuel, but they all had their own big drawbacks. 322 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: So Garrett's was one that used electrolysis, like we had said, 323 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: So it's using electricity to separate water out into hydrogen 324 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: and oxygen um. And then the car was really using 325 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: hydrogen as a fuel, which is not the most efficient ride. 326 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: You're are ay having spent so much energy just to 327 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: create the fuel that then continues to move the car, 328 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: and he had to refill it a lot, so not 329 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: necessarily the best approach. Now this is before we really 330 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: had useful ways of storing lots of pressurized hydrogen, which 331 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: would allow us to have kind of a consistent fueling source. Sure, 332 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: but I mean, I can I can see where the 333 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: conspiracy or or fringe theorists, as I hear they prefer 334 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: to be called by many angry people on the internet, 335 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: the ones I keep making it mad, Uh, you know, 336 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: I I can see I can see where perhaps um 337 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: gasoline powered car companies would not have at that particular 338 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: time wanted to donate funding to that kind of research, 339 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: right right, Well, and you know they're definitely there's a 340 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: huge investment in the gasoline automobile industry, I mean from 341 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: multiple players, not just not just so. But yeah, then 342 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 1: we have a truly terrible disaster in nineteen seven, right 343 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: on May six of that year, the Hindenburg Zeppelin disaster occurred, 344 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: and that has has put for the intervening time between 345 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: then and now, this idea into the public's mind that 346 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: hydrogen is an extremely dangerous substance, right that that to 347 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: use hydrogen is to court death. Yes, although it should 348 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: be noted that hydrogen was not the instigator of that disaster. Okay, So, 349 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: so the blimp was coated in aluminum powder to reflect sunlight. 350 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: Aluminum powder these days is a critical component of rocket fuel. 351 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: Under that coat, the cotton fabric was waterproofed with a 352 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: flammable acetate. There was a lot of static electricity in 353 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: the air from a storm that day, so when the 354 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: crew dropped the mooring ropes, it electrically grounded the blimp 355 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: and set off sparks that ignited this highly flammable material, 356 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: which then of course came into contact with this hydrogen 357 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: that's inside of it, and the whole thing lent up 358 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: proponents of hydrogen fuel, though, Actually is the Hindenberg as 359 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: a as a point to hydrogen safety because the really 360 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: lightweight hydrogen ascended up out of the blimp so fast 361 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: that the flames went upward, not outward or downwards, So 362 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: it saved the lives of everyone who actually remained on board, right, 363 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting that something we 364 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,479 Speaker 1: look at as being an example of this stuff is 365 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: going to be too dangerous for us to use actually 366 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: is an example of No, you're you're looking at this 367 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: the wrong way. You're not. You don't have the full picture, right, right, 368 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: It's I mean, sure, it's it's dangerous. That everything is dangerous, 369 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: and what's more dangerous is coding your blimp and rocket fuel. Yeah, okay, alright, 370 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: not no, Lauren, I'm not going to use any more 371 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: rocket fuel on my blimp. And that same year as 372 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: the Hannonbury disaster, there was an experimental gaseous hydrogen fueled 373 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: jet engine test and that's the first working jet engine 374 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: using hydrogen. So then we move on to nineteen thirty eight. 375 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: That's when Igor Sikorski, who was a Russian American aviator, 376 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: proposed using liquid hydrogen as a fuel for aviation. So 377 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, we already still have people saying that hydrogen 378 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: had its place. By ninety one, we have the first 379 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: mass application of hydrogen internal combustion engines. That's when a 380 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: Russian lieutenant whose name I'm not even going to attempt 381 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: to pronounce, ordered the conversion of several Ford Model G 382 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: A Z dash A A cars, the the Double A, 383 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 1: the Model Double A into hydrogen internal combustion engines converted 384 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: from gasoline to hydrogen as part of the war effort 385 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: during World War Two. Forest think, oh, nice, I was 386 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: not going to try because my Russian is worse than 387 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: my Swiss, which is worse than my French. I haven't. 388 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: I haven't looked that up, but but i'm that's that's 389 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: my stab. Well well done, because you're braver than I am. 390 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: In ninety three we have Ohio State University testing liquid 391 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: hydrogen as rocket fuel, and in the nineteen fifties and 392 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: sixties we see more work with these hydrogen fuel cells, 393 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: this whole idea that had been opposed decades earlier, and 394 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: mostly we see them in industrial applications like powering forklifts 395 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: or other heavy machinery. The first commercial use of a 396 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: hydrogen fuel cell is in Project Jiminy. Okay, I'm just 397 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: saying it the way they old I know. Yeah, that 398 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: was and that particular fuel cell was developed by General Electric. 399 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: There's your conspiracy theories for you, all right in the 400 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: home stretch, right to finish out hydrogen fuel and just 401 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: a bit. But before we can do that, let's take 402 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: another quick break. One. We're skipping way ahead because generally speaking, 403 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, we still had advances in technology on both 404 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: the combustion side and on the fuel cell side. But one, 405 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: we have the Space Shuttle main engine test, which used 406 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen as the propellants. UM. In 407 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, uh yeah, in in some cities they 408 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: started rolling out buses that were powered by hydrogen fuel cells. Yeah, 409 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: pretty cool stuff. Two thousand three, we have another big 410 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: moment in the United States. Yeah, that was when the 411 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: Hydrogen Fuel Initiative was announced here. Um. It was a 412 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: dedication of one point two billion dollars in research grants 413 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: and other governmental support to projects with the lofty but 414 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: very worthy goal of of making fuel cell vehicles practical 415 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: and cost effective. By I mean like like from harvesting 416 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: hydrogen to the infrastructure that you need to get it 417 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: to cars, to the actual cars. Yeah, this is this 418 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: is incredibly ambitious. Not that other companies haven't taken up 419 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 1: that mantle. But you know, we'll have a little bit 420 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: of a discussion at the very end about why that's 421 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: so ambitious. I think that's probably the best place to 422 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: have it. But let's see then we have. Moving on 423 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: to the late two thousands, several car companies began developing 424 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: fuel cell concepts um, although most never made it to 425 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: anything like the common market. The only one that I've 426 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: heard about even being semi available is the Honda f 427 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: c X Clarity UM, which for certain select Southern California 428 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: residents is available for a three year, six per month lease. 429 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: It's like a severe waiting list kind of kind of situation, 430 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: which which might change dramatically next year, because two thousand 431 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: fifteen is when Toyota plans to bring a fuel cell 432 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: vehicle to market, And there are other fuel cell vehicles 433 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: that are out there. Most of them are being used 434 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: in commercial or industrial uses. Again, not not really talking 435 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: about uh, you know, the vehicles for the average consumer. 436 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: But Toyota's plans say that this is going to be 437 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: a really serious effort to make fuel cell vehicles a 438 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: real alternative to gasoline and electric vehicles. UH in a 439 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: specific market in the US, we're talking about California. Yet again, 440 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: that's really kind of the test market that Toyota is 441 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: looking at. And they're looking at building out hydrogen fueling stations, 442 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: right because you have to. And that's and that's where 443 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: this is where we're coming up to that discussion where 444 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: not only is hydrogen a a potentially dangerous substance, not 445 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: only do you have to take into consideration the right 446 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: way to pressurize it and store it so that people 447 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: can use it safely. Not only is it difficult to 448 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: get the hydrogen just all on its own, it's also 449 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: expensive to build out an infrastructure that you're going from 450 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: the ground up. There's nothing there really that you can 451 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: already take advantage of. You have to start building in 452 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: things like building in new pumps and fuel stations that 453 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: are hydrogen ones. There are a few of those that 454 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: are around, you know, most of those are for things 455 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: like municipal use. It's not necessarily meant for again, for 456 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: the average person, it's not like, Hey, I'm going to 457 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: go down and fill up this pressurized clust with hydrogen. 458 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. You know, you have to create an entire 459 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: industry worth of of safety regulations and and standardizations. Yeah yeah. 460 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: If you don't have those, then it's not going to work. 461 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: So this is uh, it's a the grandiose plan in 462 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: many ways, but it's one I think that's actually achievable. 463 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: I got a chance to talk to a lot of 464 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: folks at Toyota when I went to C E S 465 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: and so I got a chance to to take a 466 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: look at the fuel cell vehicle. Really, what I looked 467 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: at was their test vehicle that actually had a fuel 468 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: cell in it, and then I got to look at 469 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: the what is the shell essentially the what what it's 470 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: going to look like when it comes to market. But 471 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: as I understand it, it did not actually have the 472 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: full fuel cell set up inside it yet. But it's 473 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: very interesting approach. It is again a subset of electric vehicles. 474 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: It runs on electricity. It's generating electricity which powers the 475 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: vehicle as an electric motor. There's no engine. It's driven 476 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: by an electric motor. It's got a battery on board 477 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: as well. Um, it's not like it's just a combustion vehicle. 478 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: It's not a combustion vehicle at all. It's more like 479 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: an electric vehicle than a combustion vehicle, except for the 480 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: fact that you have to fuel rather than recharge. So 481 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: so would you say over we We asked on Facebook 482 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: if anyone had any questions about this, and don asked, 483 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: will all fuel cell cars be hybrids? So technically, technically yes, 484 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: because a fuel cell is, like I said, kind of 485 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: an electric vehicle. So if you think of it that way, 486 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: it is a hybrid. It's not going to be a 487 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: hybrid as fuel cell and combustion engine. That doesn't make 488 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: any sense. For one thing, you would have so much 489 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: of your vehicle taken up by engines and motors and 490 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: and fuel cells and batteries that there wouldn't be any 491 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: room left for anybody else. So that's not the kind 492 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: of hybrid you're going to see. But technically, if you 493 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: think about it, a fuel cell vehicles already a hybrid vehicle. 494 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: And you know, Daniel on Facebook had asked, is this 495 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: really a viable alternative to say electric vehicles? And that's 496 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: a highly contested area of debate right now, But I 497 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: would say they each have their own advantages and disadvantages. 498 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: The big advantage of an electric vehicle is that you 499 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: can if you're just driving around, you know, going around 500 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: town and then coming back home at the end of 501 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: every day, you can recharge that at home and you 502 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: aren't having to worry about refueling ever. Right with a 503 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: hydrogen fuel cell car, it's like a gasoline car. Eventually, 504 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: you're going to have to refuel. On the flip side 505 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: of that, if you're going on long trips, like you're 506 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: not just driving around town, but you want to take 507 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: like a cross country road trip all on National Lampoon's 508 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: family vacation, because that really encouraged everyone to get on 509 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: a road trip immediately. Wally World's only open for so long, Lauren, 510 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: So if you want to go to wally World and 511 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: you have to drive through all the states to do it, 512 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: I do want to go to wally World. Who doesn't? 513 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: So the problem is that it was an electric vehicle. 514 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: Whenever you need to recharge and you're not at a 515 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: convenient stopping point, like you're not ready to stop for 516 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: the day, that's gonna take you like a half hour 517 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: or longer, depending upon how you're doing this, unless you're 518 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: buying into Tesla's model, where you can occasionally have your 519 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: better charge or swapped out. Even with a supercharger. Still 520 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: it's like the teen twenty minutes or a half charge. 521 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: So I know that doesn't sound like a long time, 522 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: but think about how irritated you get every time you 523 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: have to go and fill up your tank at a 524 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: gas station. Like, if that takes me longer than than 525 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: five or six minutes, I think that the world is ending. Yeah. Honestly, 526 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: if I even just hit a slow pump, I'm just like, 527 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: oh no, why did I pick this one? I could 528 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: have gone anywhere else, and now the rest of my 529 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: night is ruined. So yeah, hydrogen fuel fueling stations will 530 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: fuel at essentially the same speed as a gasoline fueling station, 531 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: so when it comes to refueling, hydrogen cars have have 532 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: the advantage right now. Now, if we ever get into 533 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: a crazy super fast method of charging batteries which people 534 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: are working on, and it ends up being equivalent or 535 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: even faster than fueling at a gas station, then that 536 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: advantage disappears. The only other advantage you can say is 537 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: that fuel cell vehicles, like electric vehicles don't put out 538 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: dangerous emissions. Right. And that relates to the other question 539 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: that we got in on Facebook from Ricardo. He was 540 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: he was asking, is hydrogen really environmentally friendly because it 541 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: also produces carbon dioxide. If you're using again pure hydrogen 542 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: and pure oxygen, you're not creating carbon dioxide. Uh, you 543 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: are just creating water and electricity and heat. But if 544 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: you're using something besides pure hydrogen or pure oxygen, you 545 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: could be creating pollutants, like we had said the beginning 546 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: of the last podcast, part one. So it all depends 547 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: on the implementation. Uh. And the same is true with 548 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: with fuel cells or combustion engines. Either way, whether it's 549 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: one or the other, that's what your output is going 550 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: to be based upon the input. Sure, and it also 551 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: depends on how you're creating, well, not creating, how you're 552 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: getting that hydrogen to begin with, because some methods of 553 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: of that hydrogen harvesting are cleaner than others. Right. If 554 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: you're using fossil fuels, for example, to power your hydrogen operation, 555 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: then the question is why don't you just use the 556 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: fossil fuels to the car, Right, Because if you're using it. 557 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: Why are you why are you have an extra step 558 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: in there? The extra step you know, if it's a 559 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: if it's a byproduct like methane gas out of natural 560 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: gas deposits, then then that can be a relatively clean 561 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: way to be using that material. Yeah, it's it's kind 562 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: of like the co location idea of putting uh something 563 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: that can use heat as a way of uh you know, 564 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: like like like the heat from say a power generator 565 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: where you're using you're generating lots and lots of steam 566 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: that turned turbines, and those turbines then generate electricity. You 567 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: might also have a way of harnessing that heat to 568 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: say heat a building, and then you are getting kind 569 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: of a two for one thing out of that. It 570 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: all depends on the strategy you implement to get the hydrogen, 571 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: to ship the hydrogen, and to actually consume the hydrogen. 572 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: So another thing we can look at two in the 573 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: future is the possibility of using hydrogen to generate lots 574 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: of energy through fusion, which is the same thing that 575 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: our friend the sun does and my friend, Okay, that's true, 576 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't. I can't hang out with the 577 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: sun for very long before he gets angry at me, 578 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: or at least my skin gets angry at me. But 579 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: at any rate, Yeah, the the Sun generates energy through 580 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: that that that fusion process of hydrogen turning into helium. 581 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: We might be able to harness the same thing here 582 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: on Earth, and perhaps we'll do a full podcast on 583 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: that in the future. There have been lots of different 584 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: attempts at it, and we've seen some promising results fairly 585 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: recently that suggests we might be able to finally get 586 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: to a point where we can actually generate more energy 587 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: than it required for us to put into it to 588 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: make it happen in the first placeous and that was 589 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: our classic episode on how hydrogen fuel works. Part to 590 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoyed it. If you have suggestions for 591 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: future topics of tech Stuff, or maybe there's a topic 592 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: that I should do an update for, let me know, 593 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: send me a message over on Twitter. The handle I 594 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: use there is tech stuff h s W and I'll 595 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is an 596 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 597 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 598 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.