1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,760
Speaker 1: With Jack Ghne, I can finally say some things that

2
00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: need to be said. It's one more thing, I'm strong.

3
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 1: One thing. Jack had a thing. So we had to

4
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:20,160
Speaker 1: boogy before we recorded this here podcast. Well that's actually

5
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,639
Speaker 1: it's a great opportunity not to bad mouth Jack, but

6
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,480
Speaker 1: to talk up appetizers. Now, Katie, you don't know this, probably,

7
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: but Jack and I have had a long running in

8
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,199
Speaker 1: bitter dispute. I really like appetizers if I'm out to

9
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 1: eat or whatever. He's got, like he's a member of ISIS.

10
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,960
Speaker 1: He's got this militant anti appetizer belief. It's stupid. Just

11
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 1: have the meal. Have the meal, you don't need to

12
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,160
Speaker 1: have appetizers. And anyway, I won't go any further because

13
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: again we're not bad mouthing him. Okay, and is insane

14
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 1: and unsupportable, some would say idiotic beliefs, But Jack is

15
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 1: anti apetizer. I, on the other hand, love appetizers and

16
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,759
Speaker 1: in fact, Judy and I went to a breast cancer

17
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,839
Speaker 1: fundraiser just last night and I bought at probably excessive cost,

18
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,199
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a purchase, it's a donation. I bought

19
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: an appetizer of the Month Club membership in which some

20
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 1: of the gifted chefs associated with this community slash. It

21
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: was a golf club. They deliver to your home like

22
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:38,400
Speaker 1: a gourmet appetizer once a month. Oh I know that's awesome.

23
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 1: I know. So I'll say, yeah, can we do it

24
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,199
Speaker 1: this coming Friday? And they'll say absolutely, And they'll show

25
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,559
Speaker 1: up with like this brilliantly crafted stuffed mushrooms or something

26
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 1: like that. It's a great excuse to have like friends

27
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,640
Speaker 1: over for a glass of wine and stuff and we

28
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: get the credit. Oh that is so cool. No, I

29
00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 1: know it.

30
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So what kind of things did they offer? So

31
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 2: stuff mushrooms obviously, are there other Yeah?

32
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,600
Speaker 1: I realized that this the very term has a negative connotation,

33
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 1: but I don't know why they did, like a super

34
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 1: delicious cheeseball, one of those big cheeseballs you dig in

35
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 1: with the knife and put it on crackers. But it

36
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,920
Speaker 1: was like home crafted, Oh cheeseball.

37
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 3: Those are big cheeseballs. Yeah, that sounds awesome to me.

38
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a friend, a friend of ours, actually bought

39
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: this last year. And I can't remember what else. They're

40
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: like a shrimp thing and various canna pis whatever that is,

41
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 1: but just super yummy like gourmet appetizers.

42
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. See this sounds like I'm so excited to me.

43
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean and particularly I mean it was

44
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,080
Speaker 1: several hundred dollars. Again, it's a donation out a purchase.

45
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: But when you look at what you spend to, like

46
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 1: go out for a nice dinner now, especially if you

47
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: have a bottle of wine or something like that. Oh crap.

48
00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm happy to contribute. Judy actually she quilted

49
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,280
Speaker 1: a thing, a golf cart seat cover that fits like

50
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 1: custom fits around the little what do you call it,

51
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: the hip rest things to keep you from sliding off

52
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 1: the end of it. But anyway, so we made a

53
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 1: nice donation too. It's a nice, nice fundraiser. Anyway. The

54
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 1: game across this article playground bullies do prosper and go

55
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 1: on to earn more in middle age. This is a

56
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:34,679
Speaker 1: five decade study that's thorough britz. Children who displayed aggressive

57
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 1: behavior at school, such as bullying or temper outbursts, are

58
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: likely to earn more money in middle age, according to

59
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 1: a five decade study that upends the maxim that bullies

60
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 1: do not prosper. Any reaction to that, Katie off the

61
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: top of your head.

62
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 2: I can kind of see where they're going with this,

63
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 2: because the people that are more outspoken maybe going further

64
00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 2: in business rather than the meek that get picked on.

65
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 3: I can see.

66
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is one of the reasons I'm so

67
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 1: militant about in schools not making little boys act like

68
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: little girls, nor should you make little girls act like

69
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: little boys. Let them be themselves, but the idea that

70
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: you're to sit still and be quiet and just like

71
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 1: the girls are doing. Because as a youth coach, mostly

72
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,280
Speaker 1: in soccer, I coach baseball and softball a little bit too,

73
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 1: but observing the difference between boys and girls, and then

74
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 1: I coached gosh, I coached eight year old boys, ten

75
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 1: year old boys, twelve year old boys that sort of range,

76
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,320
Speaker 1: and then fourteen year old girls. Was the oldest I

77
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 1: ever coached. But I would watch ten year old boys

78
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,279
Speaker 1: and there are like fifteen guys on the team, right,

79
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 1: so it's a nice selection of different sorts of human beings,

80
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,479
Speaker 1: and you could see, Okay, that kid is going to

81
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 1: be a dynamic leader, but at age ten, he's obnoxious

82
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 1: because he has the tool, but he doesn't know how

83
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:02,840
Speaker 1: to wield it. Properly.

84
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,119
Speaker 3: That's a great point.

85
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, just and I wish I'd thought about this more,

86
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 1: but I could give you more examples of just they're

87
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 1: all diamonds in the rough. I mean, some of them

88
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 1: are probably gonna end up in jail or beating their

89
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,040
Speaker 1: spouse or something like that. I mean, not everybody's a diamond,

90
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 1: but they're they're too much of everything. But that's how

91
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: you end up, I think with a good man. It's

92
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 1: very rare that a meek Well, no, I don't want

93
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,080
Speaker 1: to I don't want to overstate this because some people

94
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,920
Speaker 1: are just uh introverts. But we need to get back

95
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 1: to boys will be boys, and that that's saying has

96
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 1: been uh perverted to mean allegedly so they can do

97
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 1: anything they want. But no, that's not what that saying

98
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,720
Speaker 1: means at all. It means you have to put up

99
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 1: with the excesses of boyhood to end up with good men.

100
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 1: Now I abhorror bullying.

101
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,919
Speaker 2: But go No, I like what you said too about

102
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:03,720
Speaker 2: they have the tool, they just don't know how to

103
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 2: use it yet. Because you do, you might see a

104
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 2: leader in this ten year old, but that not yet

105
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 2: because right now they don't know.

106
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're loud and obnoxious, yeah, or they bully

107
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,559
Speaker 1: for instance. Now, some bullies remain bullies in their a holes,

108
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 1: and I hate them and I hope they go to prison.

109
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: But some people, You know, this is if I have

110
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,320
Speaker 1: told this story in ages. I remember the first time

111
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,520
Speaker 1: I told this story. Now, gladys, do you play the

112
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 1: harp when I'm thinking about I'm looking back at telling

113
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 1: a story about looking back? Yeah, she's here for do

114
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 1: you play the harp twice? Or how does that work?

115
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,480
Speaker 1: Doesn't just go ahead and start talking? So I was, uh,

116
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: I was having this argument with a frenemy. Okay, he

117
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 1: I was like the pitcher on the baseball team, the

118
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 1: high school baseball team, and he was the catcher, and

119
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: he was a really good catcher, really good ballplayer. But

120
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,039
Speaker 1: he I had this like two alpha dogs thing going on,

121
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,039
Speaker 1: and so there was respect and all, but we clashed.

122
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 1: We clashed a fair amount and we got We got

123
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: into it one time verbally and he said to me,

124
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,280
Speaker 1: and I wish I had I wish i'd written the

125
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 1: quote down. He said something like, I'm not even going

126
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 1: to get into it with you because you'll cut me

127
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: to bits. And I thought he sees my verbal ability

128
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 1: as a tool of meanness and cruelty, and I thought,

129
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that guy ever again, I

130
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 1: don't want to. I mean, unless somebody's got a coming.

131
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 1: I decided, Okay, I have the ability to hurt people

132
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 1: with words. I am never going to do that to

133
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 1: an innocent victim. And maybe I've lapsed at times of

134
00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: loss of temper or what have you in the intervening years,

135
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: but I've never thought of myself. Part of it is

136
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 1: I never thought myself as a bully, because I would

137
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: never hurt anybody physically. But I realized at that moment

138
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,400
Speaker 1: he he used me as some sort of verbal bully,

139
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,320
Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm not going to be that and

140
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 1: so and I hate that. This is painful for me

141
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 1: to admit that I might have kind of been that

142
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 1: quote unquote bully who then grew up to not be

143
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 1: a bully as an adult.

144
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 2: That's interesting because when you said what when you quoted

145
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 2: what he said, I heard it as like you were

146
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 2: you have more of a verbal ability than him, not

147
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,840
Speaker 2: that you're cruel with your words, but that you you

148
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,079
Speaker 2: could verbally take him if you guys were to get

149
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 2: into an argument.

150
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,920
Speaker 1: Right right, I guess. I guess the subtlety of it is.

151
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,960
Speaker 1: I always saw it as like winning an argument as

152
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:57,880
Speaker 1: opposed to leaving a victim. Okay, well it's you know,

153
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,280
Speaker 1: like the typical adolescent. It was self centered. I looked

154
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,840
Speaker 1: at it from my point of view. I win, and

155
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: I spanked him and sent him running. Yeah, but I

156
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 1: hadn't developed the compassion to really see it from the

157
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,800
Speaker 1: other person's perspective. And like I say, if it's somebody

158
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 1: trying to, for instance, you know, like push experimental sex

159
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: change procedures on children, I'll rip them apart. If I can,

160
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 1: I will turn every skill. I have full blast for

161
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,560
Speaker 1: the kid's sake. But like I said, no, no, nobody

162
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 1: who doesn't have it coming, I just won't do that. Yeah.

163
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 2: And recognizing that about yourself too is a big thing,

164
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,559
Speaker 2: because I have a very similar I like to call

165
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 2: it a sharp tongue.

166
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: Especially at all. Yeah.

167
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:45,560
Speaker 3: No, I don't have that one bit.

168
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 2: But that's something that I've been working on my whole life,

169
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 2: is realizing that, Yo, Kate, cool it because I know

170
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 2: that once it takes off, bad news bears.

171
00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 1: Right, right, you don't punch everybody who deserves it. Yeah,

172
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 1: And you don't, you know, strip them naked with your

173
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 1: verbiage if they don't deserve it either, even though you can.

174
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 3: And when they do though, oh is it fun?

175
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 1: So now the temper outburst thing is interesting. They found

176
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,880
Speaker 1: an increase in teachers observations of conduct problems such as

177
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,079
Speaker 1: temper outbursts or bullying or teasing other children, was associating

178
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: with an increase in earnings of nearly four percent of

179
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 1: any given rise in conduct problems for boys or girls.

180
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,280
Speaker 1: That compares to a six percent rise for higher cognition

181
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: skills and so as a measure of who's going to

182
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 1: do well at least financially an old boy, Now that

183
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 1: I think about it, that's an interesting way to measure

184
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: this anyway, But being like hot tempered is almost as

185
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,560
Speaker 1: good an indicator of being successful in life as being smart.

186
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, based off how they put it.

187
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Wow, it's forty percent of six Well, I

188
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,840
Speaker 1: guess you could say it's fifty percent more likely, but

189
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 1: you see my point. Further analysis showed that by age sixteen,

190
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 1: those with conduct problems were more sociable as teenagers and

191
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 1: were more likely to smoke and be arrested at some

192
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: point in their lives.

193
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 3: Oh there's that.

194
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,600
Speaker 1: Wow. So is it just being more dynamic in general?

195
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: I do not know.

196
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

197
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: They point out many people, many successful people have had

198
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:35,719
Speaker 1: various problems in school, like Winston Churchill. Various folks expelled, suspended,

199
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 1: who ended up being famous or successful or what have you.

200
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 3: Well like in today's news.

201
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,080
Speaker 2: I mean, look at Trump, He's considered a bully.

202
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 3: He's probably didn't like that his whole life.

203
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's still a bully. It's one of

204
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 1: the things I don't particularly like about him. But uh, I.

205
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,480
Speaker 3: Was thinking about Steve Jobs, genius, but I've heard he

206
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 3: was a complete bully. Oh I heard that too.

207
00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: Oh well that's right at when. Yeah, I was picturing

208
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:07,680
Speaker 1: his youth. But yeah, running Apple, he was, he absolutely was. Yeah.

209
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,560
Speaker 1: You know, maybe this boils down to and this is

210
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 1: an old, old message. Don't make kids sit still and

211
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: be quiet and all act the same, because they're not

212
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 1: the same. There's a cynical view of education that modern

213
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:27,319
Speaker 1: education exists purely to turn people into rule following drones.

214
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 1: And you know, I certainly hope that's I know a

215
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 1: lot of gifted teachers and that's not what they're trying

216
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 1: to do. But just to to whatever extent that's what's happening.

217
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 1: Resist that.

218
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, a big yeck.

219
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. We need more kids who end up smoking and

220
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,080
Speaker 1: getting arrested, because the other ones will be Winston Churchill.

221
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 1: I think that's our takeaway here. What something like that

222
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:54,920
Speaker 1: nailed it?

223
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,040
Speaker 3: Well, I guess that's it