1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. We talked about rickets this week. 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: We sure did. I have had Ricketts on my list 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: for a while. I didn't want to do it immediately 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: after the one about scurvy or the one about pelagra, 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: because people might get tired of hearing about my fixation 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: with vitamin deficiency diseases. I mean, we all have our things. 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: It's fine, we do we do. I also knew that 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: I had enough of the the underpinning knowledge that it 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: would be a relatively easy episode. Yeah. So it would 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: be helping with the on ramp from having taken some 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: time off over the holidays, returning to normal working time. 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: A couple of things that came up. One we talked 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: about Saranas of Ephesus. Was his name Seranas or Solanis? 16 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: I don't remember either way, writing I'm you know who 17 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: I'm talking about guy, the guy we mentioned, the guy 18 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: during the Roman era who wrote a book on gynecology 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: that included a section on baby care, caring for newborns. 20 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: Seranis of ephesus. I of course locked this up because 21 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: I wanted to see exactly what he had to say. Yeah, 22 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: and this text includes some hilarious pictures of anatomy, and 23 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't look into it find to 24 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: find out. Are these things that he drew and included? 25 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Are these things some other commenter drew and included with 26 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: a later edition. Not sure, but they are pictures supposedly 27 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: of fetal gestation right in the uterus. Okay. I showed 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: them to the friends in the group chat because they 29 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: were so ridiculous. And one of them said, why am 30 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: I looking at a full, a fully grown man in 31 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: the devil's water bottle? And I was like, that's a 32 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: great question, because that's a perfect characterization for all. Oh 33 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: I was looking at them. Oh, these are great, They're 34 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: amazing and so funny. Okay, here's what I will tell you. Okay, 35 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: we all know I'm a little bit of a baby pobe. 36 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: For people to love babies, I'm so glad you do. 37 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Just they freak me out. If people look like tiny 38 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: adults when they were born, I might be less weirded 39 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: out by it. And I'm not sure what that means. 40 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: That's funny. But I love the idea of someone just 41 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: like arriving on this planet in miniature form but with 42 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: adult proportions. Yeah yeah, I mean and there there is 43 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: just there like little dolls. Yeah yeah. There are periods 44 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: of art history where the babies look like tiny adults, Yes, 45 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: for sure. The fact that they are in what is 46 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: supposed to be a uterus but does look like the 47 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: kind of old tiny rubber water bottle that you would 48 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: put hot water in for your cramps makes it more funny. 49 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: I like how one looks like they're dipping their toe 50 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: into the outside world, like testing, Yeah, checking it out. 51 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: So that was one of the funniest things. We didn't 52 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: talk about it at all because I really wanted the 53 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: focus to be on rickets. But for a while it 54 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: seemed like there was not exactly a fad. Might mean 55 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: more of a trend in the world of medicine to 56 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: routinely test people for their vitamin D levels and then 57 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: recommend potentially supplementation based on that. And there were a 58 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: couple of physicals where I had a vitamin D test 59 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: and then had a recommendation. One of these times, I 60 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: was working a job where I was in literally an 61 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: underground space, and I worked from like, I worked the 62 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: whole afternoon and evening, so if I was going to 63 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: get any sun exposure, like they had to leave the 64 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: house and do things before work that would be out 65 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: in the sun. And I read an article like I'm 66 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: not a doctor, I can't really make medical medical recommendations 67 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: that would not be okay. And I did not read 68 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: the entire spectrum of writing about this, but it does 69 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: seem like there was eventually a okay, we tried this 70 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: for a while. It doesn't seem like there is a 71 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: net benefit to across the board testing people's vitamin D 72 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: levels and giving most people's supplementation. So that's this episode 73 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: was about Rickets, the actual medical condition, not like the 74 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: sort of low grade vitamin D deficiency that for a 75 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: while there was a lot of general practitioner testing, right 76 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: going on? Right? I have so many thoughts. One and 77 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: you almost segued into this when you were talking about 78 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: the full adult humans in a water bottle. I wondered 79 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: because you referenced a number of artworks where there have 80 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: been questions about like is this depicting Rickets? Oh yeah, 81 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: And I immediately wondered, like, have there been a lot 82 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: of paintings from like the era when mannerism was really 83 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: popular that could have been misinterpreted this way. Yeah, because 84 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, just as a quick refresher for anybody that 85 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: doesn't remember, mannerism is this era of art where people 86 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: look a little bit surreal. It's it's very popular in 87 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: like the sixteenth century. I think I'm getting that right, 88 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, where bodies would be slightly along and limbs 89 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: would be preserved in ways that they don't really do, 90 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: Like instead of an elbow, you would see a curved 91 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: arm kind of thing. And I'm like, I wouldn't have 92 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: any of these people. Yeah, but like and because of 93 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: mannerism and not because of deficiencies. Yeah. And that was 94 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: a general conversation in several of the things that I read, 95 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: which is like, we don't really know did this person 96 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: have rickets or is this like artistic license? Right? Like 97 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: was the model for the baby Jesus in the painting 98 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: that we talked about, Like, did that model have rickets 99 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: or was this just like how the artist was depicting 100 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: baby We don't know. Yeah. I also wonder if there 101 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: isn't like sort of a reflexive problem of it, where 102 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: you know you had mentioned that there have been I'm 103 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: trying to remember the name of the researcher who determined 104 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: that rickets was like primarily a rich people problem, and 105 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: if depictions of people with rickets may have been a 106 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: way to signify that they were or from the higher 107 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: even if they didn't necessarily have it or exhibit any symptoms. Yeah, 108 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure someone has done a study of this. Yeah, 109 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: but now I'm sure and wondering. Well, and something that 110 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: I had in here that I eventually took out because 111 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: it just it felt a little out of place no 112 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: matter where I put it in. The outline was about 113 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: how a bunch of the Medicis all had rickets and 114 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: there were a couple of its or did they get 115 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: children that way? No, we're talking about their bones, like 116 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: their actual like there were at least one baby in 117 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: the Medici family, who of course were some of the 118 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: wealthiest and most powerful people of their era, were described 119 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: as having rickets. And then there was a study that 120 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: I did not keep the details of where there was 121 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: a you know, a research into the bones of a 122 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: Medici family tomb and how all of the kids had 123 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: signs of rickets. That does also mean these were all 124 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: people who died as children. It's harder to tell if, like, 125 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: had they survived until adulthood, like, what would their skeletons 126 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: have looked like then. That had led to some speculation 127 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: that the Meditees were all keeping their babies inside and 128 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: out of the sun, which meant that since they were 129 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: almost certainly being breastfed, then they would not have been 130 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: getting enough vitamin D. They're like the original indoor children. Yeah, 131 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: I'm not in any way suggesting that breastfeeding is bad. 132 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: Whatever way gets the baby enough food and nutrients is 133 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: the way the babies should be fed. It does seem 134 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of recommendation around the world for 135 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: vitamin D supplements for exclusively breastfed babies because also not 136 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: having babies with sunburns. That's important, right, just for the 137 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: comfort of the baby, for the baby's future skin health. 138 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: Did you run into anything in your research, and this 139 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: may be a little too modern, about the impact of 140 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: the early phase of the COVID epidemic. No, I did 141 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: not look at anything that number, because I'd be curious. Now, 142 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: so many folks were staying indoors all the time. Yeah, 143 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: there were a lot of people staying indoors pretty much 144 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: all the time, and then is it became clearer that 145 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: being outside was less risky there were people that did 146 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the opposite and were spending more time outside. Yeah, so 147 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: that would be interesting to look at. Something that we 148 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: mentioned is that some of these studies that were done 149 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: on babies and small children would not be thought of 150 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: as ethical today because like, there were kids in a 151 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: control group who were not getting Yeah, it's troubling something 152 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: that we knew was helpful. And this still has relevancy 153 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: today because one of the anti vax talking points is 154 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: that there are vaccines on the market today that did 155 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: not have like a placebo group comparison in the study. Right. 156 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: The reason that we didn't have a placebo group comparison 157 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: in the study is that we already know that the 158 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: measles vaccine prevents measles. So if you are instead giving 159 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: children a placebo, you are exposing them to measles, a 160 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: dangerous disease. So when new versions of vaccines come out, 161 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: usually the test is to compare the new vaccine to 162 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: the previous one, not to intentionally expose children to the 163 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: disease the vaccine prevents. Welcome to ethics, and medical research people. Yeah, yeah, 164 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: it's weird. Yeah, I wish I had more information on 165 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: Harriet Chick, right, having not a typical career for a 166 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: woman in science given when she lived. Yeah, and I 167 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: jotted her name on the list for maybe a future 168 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: episode in the immediate looking did not seem like there 169 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: was probably enough information, but who knows that could change. 170 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: Now I'm just thinking about cod liver oil and how 171 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: it appears in all children's literature that I grew up with, 172 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: and all of the oh yeah cartoons that I grew 173 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: up with, and all of the and it just makes 174 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: me giggle because now I realized I didn't realize. Of course, 175 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: when you're a kid and you see it, we're kind 176 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: of you're a couple years younger than me, but we're 177 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: even I'm still kind of outside of that window when 178 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: like everybody was administering cod liver oil to their kids 179 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: at all times, right, because if it's benefits, And I 180 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: remember being like, what why are they doing this to 181 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: these people? And and cartoons And I didn't really learn 182 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: until much later, Oh, because it's considered you know, full 183 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: of essential and exciting and heuture right when Patrick and 184 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: I were on our honeymoon in Iceland. One of the 185 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: hotels that we stayed at had just a bottle of 186 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: cod liver oil on the breakfast off with little basically 187 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: shot glasses where you could just get yourself a shot 188 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: at the cod liver oil with your breakfast. And at 189 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: the time, I was like, I was thinking mostly of 190 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, cultural things. It did not really connect in 191 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: my brain until doing this that Iceland is a place 192 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: that is at a northern latitude. We were there in 193 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: the early spring when the sun was not setting until 194 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: like ten pm, but the sun was also not nearly 195 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: as direct as it would be in like the American South, 196 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: and it like didn't really connect that, like that could 197 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: be a reason that someone in Iceland might want some 198 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: cod liver oil. A friend of ours was, so, did 199 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: you try it? No? Oh you have? You never had it? 200 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: Not as just like a shot of it in a cup. 201 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: We were going to get in the car and drive 202 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: from we were going to having a multi multi hour 203 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: drive back to Reikivic before flying back home, and I 204 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: was like, I did not want to just chug some 205 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: cod liver oil having never experienced it, and then get 206 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: in a car for a long drive, not knowing when 207 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: we might find a restroom. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, 208 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, I'm unwise and we'll try anything. So I 209 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: have tried it. It's fine, Yeah, exactly what to think. 210 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: But I also sometimes just take fish oil supplements. Oh sure, yeah, 211 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: go form. Yeah, I always crack up that. Now most 212 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: of the bottles will tout no fish burps. Yeah. I think. 213 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: I mentioned in a recent episode that I had had 214 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: a medical appointment at which an OBG I N recommended 215 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: that I try to get more omega threes in my diet, 216 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: which has involved eating more sardines than salmon. And so 217 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: I was as I was working on this, I was like, 218 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: maybe my vitamin z's doing good. Probably I added added 219 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: salmon and sardines. And do you have fishburps? Is the 220 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: bigger Not usually I did have like a very a 221 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: very uh sardini. I don't even remember what I made, 222 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: But later I did have a little fishburp and I 223 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: was like, no, thanks, it's okay. It's a part of liven. Yeah. Ah. 224 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: We talked about George Stevenson this week. We did. I 225 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: really like him. Yeah. It's very interesting because there are 226 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: a couple of full length biographies written of him. But 227 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: then everywhere else you see, like he up in a 228 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: lot of places because he was so important to engineering. 229 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: But there they cut out so much of the really 230 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: interesting parts of his life. Right. They don't talk about 231 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: his pet blackbird that slept with him. They don't talk 232 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: about all of his mad sewing skills. You're going to 233 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: talk about in the minute growing a straight cucumber. I 234 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: had to include that. I was like, should I put 235 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: this behind the scenes? Yes? No, No, it was his invention. 236 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: He was proud of it. I don't know why it 237 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: was so important to him to grow a straight cucumber. 238 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: They're delicious, even if they're curved. But it made me 239 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: chuckle a little bit. There were so many cute stories 240 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: though about him, and that Smiles biography that was written 241 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: in the mid nineteenth century. Smiles, as you may recall, 242 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: wrote a book called Self Help after he had met 243 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: with Stevenson, got hired by him, and then later on 244 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: wrote a biography about him. He it's a really interesting 245 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: biography because it is very thorough and also he notates 246 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: every person he talked to and got him from from, 247 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: Like I talked to this person in this village and 248 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: they told me this story. It's like a much more 249 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: notated biography from that time than were accustomed to seeing 250 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: in that he shows his work, which is pretty great. 251 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: One of the many stories that I loved Slash hated right. 252 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: I don't love the idea of children working in a 253 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: coal mine, surely, but there was this cute thing because 254 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: George was clearly very smart from a young age, and 255 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: he had kind of gotten moved up into jobs even 256 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: early for his age, even given that it was standard 257 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: practice to employ kids that at one point he had 258 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: been promoted and he was working with his dad, but 259 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: whenever the owner of the mind came out, he had 260 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: to go hide because he was like I was also 261 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: very tiny, and I looked really young, so scared I 262 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: was going to get in trouble if this guy saw me, 263 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: And it looked like a twelve year old was running 264 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: a really expensive piece of equipment. That just was very 265 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: funny to me. He also had one and one only 266 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: fistfight in his entire life, and it was because there 267 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: was a pittman at the Black Callerton mine who was 268 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: kind of a notorious bully, and George stood up to 269 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: him and this guy threatened him and said, like you 270 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: know essentially, do you want to take it outside? I mean, 271 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: George half this guy's size, this little scrawny dude, and 272 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: he goes yeah, and they had this fight, but it 273 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: was a fight club scenario where you got to watch 274 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: out for the wiry ones. He was apparently George whipped 275 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: this guy's tail. Wow. Again, violence is never the answer, 276 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: but I do like it when bullies get come up. Yeah. 277 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: One of the other things that was very interesting about 278 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: his intuition as an engineer and as a mechanic was 279 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: when he had to fix that new Cooman engine that 280 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: essentially set him on a path to like a much 281 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: higher level of professional career, which is that he essentially 282 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: overclos that thing, like he yeah, was putting the settings 283 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: at like double what they were labeled as being able 284 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: to handle. But he really felt like, I know this 285 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: machine and I know it can handle it, and it's 286 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 1: not doing its job. So I want to try this 287 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: and we'll see if it works. And it did. Huh. So, Yeah, 288 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: his intuition was apparently very good, but that would also 289 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: terrify me. Yeah, I mean that sounds like a recipe 290 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: for another explosion. Yes it does, but it never happened. 291 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: I do want to talk about his sewing. Yeah, let's do, 292 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: because we mentioned in the episode that like I had 293 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: read in one place that he was cutting out sewing 294 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: projects for women and like basically he was taking piecework 295 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: where he would cut their stuff out and return it 296 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: to them and then they could just stitch it up, 297 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: which I know to a lot of stitchers that are 298 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: listening are like, where can I get one of those? 299 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: But it didn't come up everywhere. But then later in 300 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: the Smiles biography in particular, he mentions that when he 301 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: first sat Robert to school, you know, they were still 302 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: I mean, he was doing better than he ever had, 303 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: but compared to the other kids at Roberts school, he 304 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: was very poor. Yeah, and he was wearing a homemade 305 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: suit that George had made for him. That's the sweetest 306 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard. But there is also another cute story, 307 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: which is that when he was out surveying, and granted 308 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: this is a different time in a different place, but 309 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: like he would walk those survey lines and he would 310 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: just kind of stop at people's houses and be like, hey, 311 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: can I have lunch? Yeah yeah, and talk to them. 312 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: And he really loved talking to kids and at one point. 313 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: I don't remember if it was there, if it was 314 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: when he was like when he was doing that, or 315 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: was when he was in a meeting. He was talking 316 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: to these two little girls who were learning embroidery, and 317 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: he was like, do you want me to teach you 318 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: some stitches? And they looked at him completely confused because 319 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: men normally did not embroider, nor did they offer very 320 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: sweetly to teach them stitches. And he says to them, quote, 321 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: when I was a brakesmanute killing Worth, I learned the 322 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: art of embroidery while working the pittman's buttonholes by the 323 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: engine fire at night. And I just love that. He 324 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: was like, I don't care about blue collar work. I'll 325 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,239 Speaker 1: do anything. I'm a hustler. Yeah, I know how to 326 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: do lots of stuff because I'm interested in lots of stuff. 327 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: And I think that's great. My last note on him 328 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: is this, Okay, he apparently I'm not going to read 329 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: the whole quote, but there's a really beautiful quote in 330 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: that Smiles biography where George's one big regret is that 331 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: because he didn't learn to read until later in life, 332 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: there were a lot of things he was working on 333 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: trying to invent that. He was like, if I had 334 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: been able to read books and know that other people 335 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: had tried things, it would have saved me a lot 336 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: of time and embarrassment because I made foolish mistakes or 337 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: sometimes I thought I had invented something, only to discover 338 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: that it had existed already for a long time. But 339 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: that having to like figure things out on his own 340 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: without the benefit of having learned from the work of 341 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: other people also made him more inventive and probably more 342 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: ingenious in terms of his mechanical ability. I kind of 343 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, he seems like a delightful human who 344 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: was just very kind. He was very generous. He took 345 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: care of a lot of people, like if this was 346 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: not standard practice at the time. This was not a 347 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: time when things like workmen's comp and like payouts for 348 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: accidents happened. Sure working in mining, and once he got 349 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: to a certain level where he was a manager, if 350 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: somebody got killed in the mind he would often just 351 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: like make it his business to take care of that 352 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: family for the rest of their lives, the rest of 353 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: his life anyway, which was not normal for you know, 354 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: anybody in that position to do. And he also would 355 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: just you know. There was another story about when he 356 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: was out just stopping by people's houses and being like, Hey, 357 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: can I have lunch with you? One couple that seemed 358 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: a little reluctant initially, but then let him in and 359 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: he was super charming and they really loved him. And 360 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: then later in life, when he got much more successful, 361 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: he made a point to go see them again and 362 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: tell them how much he appreciated their generosity and their hospitality, 363 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: and like, just stand up guy that George Stevenson. I'm 364 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: going to be very sad if I find out he 365 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: was secretly a monster, but it doesn't. Yeah, we can 366 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: put him right up there with Levi Strauss as probably 367 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: has some flaws we don't know about, but overall a 368 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: rare good guy. Yeah, did you have any thoughts? I'm 369 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: just pro trains, you know, you didn't mention like the 370 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: robber barons and the railroad tycoons, And there's a layer 371 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: of obvious damaging stuff there, but there's also the fact 372 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: that trains can be a more efficient way to travel 373 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: than like an airplane, and we don't have enough of 374 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: them in the United States, and the ones that we 375 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: do have aren't as great as they could be. There's 376 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: a layer of that too, involving you know, where train 377 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: tracks go and the facts that a lot of times 378 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: that train development displaces the most vulnerable people. Yes, like 379 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: that's the thing to take into consideration. But we should 380 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: have more trains than we have, and they should be 381 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: better than they are. That's my opinion. That includes light 382 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: rail and within cities that they're a lot more, way 383 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: more efficient than cars. Yeah, in a lot of places 384 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: they would be if there were more of them and 385 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: they worked better. Yeah, I mean, I feel like right, 386 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: the obvious example of like pushing trains to be a 387 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: more viable option than other modes of transportation is Japan 388 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: because they have figured out the speed angle like that. 389 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: I think see a lot of people is the thing. 390 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: Right to get from here to San Francisco, it takes 391 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: me a flight of you know, five hours right or 392 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: by train, see in a few days. Yes, So that's 393 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,719 Speaker 1: another big thing holding that industry back in terms of 394 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: garnering more patrons. Yeah. Yeah, even in the context of 395 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: a city, it often takes significantly longer for me to 396 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: get somewhere on like the commuter rail and t system 397 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: in Boston that it would take in a car, and 398 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: often I'm like, I'd rather be on the train, So 399 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: I'll take this hour long trip on the train that 400 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: would have been half an hour in the car because 401 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: I like the train better. Yeah, but a lot of 402 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: people aren't going to do that, especially if what they're 403 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: talking about doing is their morning commute. That would be 404 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: much longer on a train than in a car. Yeah. 405 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: I mean when we moved offices. At one point when 406 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: we first started working together, when I joined Houset off Works, 407 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: I took the train all the time. Oh yeah, we 408 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: had a train station right next to our office. Yeah, 409 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: it was still a little bit of a pain, and 410 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: that took us because I had to be driven to 411 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: the train station and that was a little slow, but whatever. 412 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: And then when we moved to the next location, it 413 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: became not tenable to take the train anymore. You had 414 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: to take a shuttle from the train station to the office, 415 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: and that just was a whole other layer of stuff. Yeah, 416 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: and the train ride itself was much longer because I 417 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: had to switch train, like there wasn't a direct Yeah, 418 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: it just was a pain and it became ostenable. I 419 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: am also I am embarrassed to admit I am a 420 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: person that loves being in my car. I love the 421 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: solitude of being in the car. Yeah, I don't mind traffic. 422 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: It's very zen for me to just sit in the car. 423 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I can't be on my phone. I can't be on 424 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: my phone now, I can't be check an email. Yeah, 425 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm just in the car. Yeah. When the house stuff 426 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: works office was next to that train station. When I 427 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: was living in an apartment, I lived like right down 428 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: the street and I just drove. It was I was 429 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: right down the street meeting not walking distance, but a 430 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: fast and easy drive. And then I moved to a 431 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: place where I's like, I'm gonna take Marta, and I 432 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: would drive to the Marta station and then take Marta 433 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: the rest of the way. And there was a series 434 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: of service cuts that got to a point where it 435 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: was gonna be an hour and twenty to an hour 436 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: and thirty minutes if I kept doing that. And it 437 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: was twenty five minutes in the car going the back 438 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: way that one of our coworkers showed me, Yeah, and 439 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: that was I was like, no, I can't. I gotta 440 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: have some more of my time back. Yeah. Yeah, that's 441 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: the big trick for a lot of people you know. 442 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: In cities like New York where traffic is so so bad, 443 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: the train often is the better option. Yeah. Or Paris 444 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: where the trains were every two minutes. Yeah. London is 445 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: anyway and wistful about trains. Trains. Perhaps one day, one day, 446 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: we'll get more robust train options. Yeah. But in any case, 447 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: if you have to take the train this weekend, or 448 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: you want to take the train this weekend, I hope 449 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: it's a delightful ride. I hope everybody's cool. I hope 450 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: there are no malfunctions. I hope everybody is kind to 451 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: one another, and that you get some time to relax 452 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: and recharge. And if you have to work these days 453 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: coming up, I hope everyone that you encounter is absolutely 454 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: kind to you and that there are no needless headaches 455 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: at your job. I just want everybody to be kind 456 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: and happy to one another. We're living in such a 457 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: scary time that any any eke out we can make 458 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: of kindness feels like a little bit of a win. 459 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: So do that while you are also figuring out other 460 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: ways to help. We will be right back here tomorrow 461 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: with a classic episode, and then on Monday we will 462 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: have something brand new. Stuff you missed in History Class 463 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 464 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 465 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.