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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're here to sniff

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Speaker 2: you up the case with our brand new episode on

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Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever read any Sherlock Holmes short stories or

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Speaker 1: one of the four novels?

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Speaker 2: You should have started that off with, Josh, Josh, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have. I've never read the novels, but I've read

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of the short stories.

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Speaker 1: Yeh oh, okay, I didn't know you were Sherlockian.

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Speaker 2: I'm not. I would not call myself that because if

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Speaker 2: you are Sherlockian or in the UK Holmesian, you are

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Speaker 2: like one of the original fans of fandom. And I

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Speaker 2: mean I'm not there, Like I don't qualify. No, okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: more than me. So have you read any not a one? Oh,

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Speaker 2: you're missing out. They're really interesting and fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not only that, I haven't really seen

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Speaker 1: any of the stuff either.

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Speaker 2: There's some really good movies out there. Last night, just

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Speaker 2: to brush up, I watched The House of Fear. Okay,

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Speaker 2: just based on the short story of the Five Orange

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Speaker 2: Pips and it's really good. Basil Rathbone and Nigel Rogers

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Speaker 2: and just the straight ahead, mid century black and white

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Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes mystery that you think of when you think

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Speaker 2: of a Sherlock Holmes movie, or most people do. So

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Speaker 2: they're good, They're really the movies are generally good. I've

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Speaker 2: seen the worst version. People call the worst version Holmes

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Speaker 2: and wattson you saw that, No, But I watched a

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Speaker 2: clip and I was like, this is not that bad.

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Speaker 2: This is exactly what you'd expect from Will Ferrell and

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Speaker 2: John c Riley, Like, what were you thinking it's gonna

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Speaker 2: be like high art or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I just heard it was zero five, not

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Speaker 1: that they were expecting something, you know. Posh.

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Speaker 2: Well the clip I saw was at least one and

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Speaker 2: a half percent fun. Okay, it has a half of

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Speaker 2: a star on Rotten Tomatoes.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's get into it because this is a.

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Speaker 2: Lot wait wait, wait, hold on, hunt, let me just

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Speaker 2: wrap this up. Okay, yes, you should read some of

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Speaker 2: the home stories. Okay, okay, yeah, let's get into it now.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're talking about Sherlock Holmes, the infamous,

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Speaker 1: the famous, fictional detective. I learned. I was about to

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Speaker 1: say a lot, but basically everything about this was new

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Speaker 1: to me. So I learned everything brand new. I was

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Speaker 1: this day years old when I learned everything. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I did I did not know

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Speaker 1: for sure is that I always thought he was an

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Speaker 1: official like Scottland Yard detective. I did not know that

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Speaker 1: he was an amateur sleuth and that maybe he worked,

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Speaker 1: you know, alongside Scottland Yard at times, but I just

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Speaker 1: figure he was part of Scotland Yard.

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Speaker 2: No, he is the world's first consulting detective. That's what

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Speaker 2: Arthur Quinnan Doyle, the author called him. Another term for

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Speaker 2: that as a private eye.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he would work with Scotland Yard sometimes, but most

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Speaker 2: of the time he was several steps ahead of Scotland

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Speaker 2: Yard whenever they did come in to arrest somebody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, like I mentioned, there were four novels, there

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Speaker 1: were fifty six short stories over about a four decade

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Speaker 1: plus period, which is a lot of writing. And apparently,

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Speaker 1: and this is in twenty twelve, and he's been in

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Speaker 1: quite a few more adaptations since then, but he's Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's the most frequently portrayed human literary character ever in

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Speaker 1: film and TV.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, two hundred and fifty four times.

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Speaker 1: Well, no way more than that, now picked.

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Speaker 2: It, yes, by seventy five actors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, more than that now.

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Speaker 2: At the time in twenty twelve, the non human who'd

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Speaker 2: been most adapted was Dracula, and he only had Sherlock

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Speaker 2: Colmbs beat by like a handful. Oh okay, so there

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Speaker 2: you go, Sherlock Colmbs. Everybody loves to portray him, and

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Speaker 2: that's something we'll try to get to the bottom of here,

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Speaker 2: because what we're talking about is one hundred and nearly

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Speaker 2: fifty year old, like detective pulp fiction that has chapters

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Speaker 2: of fans all over the world. Sherlock Colmbs is one

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Speaker 2: of the most famous characters ever written in the history

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Speaker 2: of literature, and people are nuts for him still today,

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Speaker 2: and some people just like don't get it, and there's

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Speaker 2: something to get, but not everybody can put their finger

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Speaker 2: on it, and we probably won't either, but we'll try.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think I never read it because

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Speaker 1: I just don't read mysteries like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that separates him from the

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Speaker 2: mysteries is that he uses deductive reasoning like Agatha Christie.

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Speaker 2: It's like can you guess who it is? Maybe there's

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Speaker 2: a clue or something in there. More often than not,

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Speaker 2: there's really nothing in there that can tell you who

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Speaker 2: who did it? With Sherlock Holmes, it might not be

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Speaker 2: in there either. But what he uses is deductive reasoning,

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Speaker 2: where the kind of logic and reasoning he's using, like

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Speaker 2: anybody has that potential at faculty, he's just particularly gifted

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Speaker 2: with it. So he's I don't know, he's like a

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Speaker 2: machine as far as logic goes. But he's also a

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Speaker 2: deeply flawed person in a lot of ways too. I

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Speaker 2: think that makes him really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually I need to correct myself. I did

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Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Brown, as I've mentioned before, and that's where that

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Speaker 1: train ended for me.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's an elementary school. Yeah, but I mean

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Speaker 2: what a ride it was, right.

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Speaker 1: That was pretty great. Watson, this is sidekick. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: a lot about him as we go, And the first

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Speaker 1: one was a study in Scarlet in eighteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, let's go ahead, and I guess just

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how who Holmes is as

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Speaker 1: a character. He's he's definitely like portrayed as like a genius.

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Speaker 1: He sometimes can be very sort of flippant and arrogant.

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Speaker 1: He's not very emotional. Watson says, you know that he

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Speaker 1: has no interest in women, and that there's been speculation

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Speaker 1: that Sherlock Holmes is a gay character. He's I believe.

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Speaker 1: Watson described him in a Scandal in Bohemia from eighteen

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Speaker 1: ninety one as the most perfect reasoning and observing machine

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Speaker 1: that the world has seen. But as a lover, he

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Speaker 1: would have placed himself in a false position.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which you don't want to do, especially as a

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Speaker 2: gentleman in Victoria in England, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and a bit of enigma, right as far as

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Speaker 1: just kind of personal life. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The reason why is because it was not a main

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Speaker 2: driver of the series. Ye that Conandoah wrote like there

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Speaker 2: were allusions to his life outside of his mysteries, Like

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Speaker 2: he's well known to have a brother named Mike Croft.

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Speaker 2: He was really passionate about boxing, and he played the violin.

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Speaker 2: He was also very famous for intravenously injecting cocaine in

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Speaker 2: a seven percent solution, and these things were just kind

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Speaker 2: of referred to here or there early on. The cocaine

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Speaker 2: was kind of a driver of his character. He was

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Speaker 2: very self obsessed. He was very melancholy, like he would

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Speaker 2: shoot cocaine to like basically get through the tedium of

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Speaker 2: a day because he was so smart he couldn't possibly

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Speaker 2: do so otherwise. But then as he developed, he became

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Speaker 2: less of a well a cocaine addict and more of

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Speaker 2: a fully fleshed out character who's the point and purpose

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Speaker 2: was to figure out how to solve these mysteries using

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Speaker 2: logic and deduction, and that's what he really became more

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Speaker 2: than anything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've if you've seen, if you haven't read,

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Speaker 1: and you've only seen like movie and TV versions, you've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot more of a character called Irene Adler.

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Speaker 1: Irene Adler exists far more in the TV and film side.

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Speaker 1: I believe she was only in one story, so she's

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Speaker 1: been much much more portrayed on screen as maybe a

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Speaker 1: maybe a love interest, maybe a what's the word I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for, sort of like a foil at times, not

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Speaker 1: quite like a Moriarty level professor. Moriarty is often the

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Speaker 1: main foil and sort of evil criminal mastermind. But Adler

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Speaker 1: definitely exists a lot more in the film and television world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in the world of Sherlock Holmes fans, they call

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Speaker 2: her the woman. She's the woman who like.

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Speaker 1: He called her that.

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Speaker 2: Oh did he call her that? Okay? Yeah, So like

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Speaker 2: she's the one who caught his attention by foiling his

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Speaker 2: his investigation, Like he figured out what happened, but he

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Speaker 2: didn't catch the criminal, and that really caught his attention.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think he'd only been thwarted like four times, and

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Speaker 2: she was one of them. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He's also been like famously diagnosed retroactively with everything from

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Speaker 2: bipolar two disorder, depression, Asperger's syndrome, and he's also commonly

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Speaker 2: given an i NTJ personality hype from the Myers Briggs test,

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Speaker 2: which is analytical, logical and with a strong intuition that

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Speaker 2: seems to fit does so, going back out into the

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Speaker 2: real world, if you're going to take the Doilian view

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Speaker 2: of all this stuff that it's actually fiction written by

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Speaker 2: Arthur Conan Doyle. The whole thing started in eighteen eighty six,

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Speaker 2: I think when the first one that you just mentioned

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Speaker 2: to study in Scarlet was published in Breton's Christmas Annual.

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Speaker 1: I think it was eighty seven eighty seven, correct it.

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Speaker 1: Because there are Sherlockeans and Homians Homesians.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we should have totally given a CoA

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to be minor errors here and there.

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Speaker 1: Everyone sure.

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Speaker 2: So eighteen eighty seven, the first story comes out study

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Speaker 2: in Scarlett. I think it's actually a novel, and it

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Speaker 2: was published in this Christmas annual and it didn't take

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Speaker 2: off like a rocket until he started publishing the shorter

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Speaker 2: stories in a magazine called The Strand. And this is

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Speaker 2: at the time that Strand mag Maine was the most

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Speaker 2: widely circulated monthly magazine in all of Britain. And it

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Speaker 2: just so happened that Conan Doyle was writing these stories

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Speaker 2: at a time when Britain had suddenly become a lot

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Speaker 2: more literate and they were hungry for new fiction. So

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Speaker 2: he really kind of came in and brought Sherlock Holmes

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Speaker 2: in it just the right time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so people are reading this thing like crazy. I

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Speaker 1: think they ended up collecting those short stories in well,

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Speaker 1: a collection called The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, and like

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Speaker 1: you said, that was where I mean. I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: novels are great, but he only did four of them,

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Speaker 1: and it's really it seems like these short stories is

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Speaker 1: where he found a place to sell a lot more stuff.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I guess sell is one way to

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Speaker 1: say it, or write a lot more stuff, because you know,

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Speaker 1: there were less than ten thousand words. They were even

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Speaker 1: short for detective short stories at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: think they appealed to younger people quite a bit from

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Speaker 1: what I've.

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Speaker 2: Read, Yeah, because at the time, the younger generation, we're

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Speaker 2: the ones who had just been educated through the public

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Speaker 2: education system that had just been developed, so they were

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Speaker 2: more likely to be able to read than their parents,

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Speaker 2: just statistically speaking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they didn't want to read some long novel.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to read a short story. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also one of the other things too that Conan

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Speaker 2: Doyle figured out early on that I think people appreciate

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Speaker 2: because it's so comfortable and familiar, is essentially the same

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Speaker 2: formula for basically every single one of the stories.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which I mean it's like Encyclopedia Brown. In any

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Speaker 1: kind of detective story, you're going to have a client

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Speaker 1: come in or you know, it evokes fill Noir as well.

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Speaker 1: A client comes in in this case to the very

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Speaker 1: famous office to twenty one B Baker Street, and the

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Speaker 1: client themselves are going to be sort of picked apart

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Speaker 1: by Homes at the beginning, and he's going to make

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Speaker 1: a lot of deductions about them and then evaluate the

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Speaker 1: case and then you know, hit the streets, maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: in disguise and start doing the investigating of course, solve

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Speaker 1: the case, capture the bad guy, and then explain it

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Speaker 1: all the Watson Scooby Doo style at the end. Which

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Speaker 1: I mean, is this I know Holmes wasn't the first.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll get into that fictional detective, but is this

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Speaker 1: how that sort of trophy formula started?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So none of the first fictional detectives did things

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: No, not in any kind of formula like that as

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Speaker 2: far as I know. And there were only maybe a

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Speaker 2: dozen that came before him, but they were all just

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Speaker 2: kind of throwing stuff at the fridge to see what stuck.

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Speaker 2: It was Arthur Conan Doyle who's the one who really

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Speaker 2: figured it all out and just ran with it.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. They were illustrated by a guy named Sidney Paget,

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Speaker 1: and as far as the look of Holmes, that was

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Speaker 1: model on Paget's brother Walter, and you know, it would

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Speaker 1: just interpret whatever Doyle was writing as far as what

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Speaker 1: he would draw. So in the book, for instance, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's two things, even if you don't know anything about

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes, and in fact, you probably call it the

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes hat and the Sherlock Holmes pipe. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: big curvy, huge bell pipe. And then that deer stalker cap.

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Speaker 1: That's what it's, you know, it's what it technically is.

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Speaker 1: But everyone else just calls it the Sherlock Holmes hat.

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Speaker 1: But in the book Doyle just says it's a close

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Speaker 1: fitting cloth cap. He doesn't say he wore his deer

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Speaker 1: stalker cap that was an invention of Sidney Paget.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that pipe is called a calibash pipe. And

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Speaker 2: like you said, I mean like draw you right, you

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Speaker 2: could draw like just a minimalist profile of just those

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Speaker 2: two things, and around the world people would know exactly

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Speaker 2: who that was.

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Speaker 1: It's like the when Michael Jordan had the Hitler mustache

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Speaker 1: in that TV commercial. I forgot them and everyone's like,

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Speaker 1: why do you have a Hitler mustache? Right? I totally

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Speaker 1: forgot Yeah, I mean that one's you can't have that

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Speaker 1: mustache anymore and he's no, no, no, I feel like

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Speaker 1: he should have known that.

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Speaker 2: No, you really couldn't from basically the nineteen thirties on

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Speaker 2: where it was off the table.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not even It's not like he was

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Speaker 1: doing it as an homage.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: But it was definitely like what world is Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: living in Ray doesn't know that? Just nobody does that.

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Speaker 1: It's funny.

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Speaker 2: So just one thing real quick for the Sherlockians and

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Speaker 2: the Homesians. I saw that it is contested that Walter

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Speaker 2: Sydney's brother was the model. Apparently Sidney claimed he wasn't

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Speaker 2: everyone says that he was. So maybe Sidney Pagett was

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Speaker 2: just a pathological liar.

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Speaker 1: Maybe. I mean, I'd have to see a picture of

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Speaker 1: Walter too, you know, to know for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good way to put two

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Speaker 2: and two together, I think, very homesy and in your

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Speaker 2: approach elementary. You want to take a break and come back.

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Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, good timing. We'll be a background for this.

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Speaker 1: By the way, we're back, And I said elementary. Apparently

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Speaker 1: that wasn't something Doyle wrote that came from one of

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Speaker 1: the movies, right.

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Speaker 2: The movies are the first stage play one of the two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe stage play yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think the closest he wrote was exactly my dear Watson.

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Speaker 2: So close.

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Speaker 1: I mean, not in Doyle, but elementary so much. That's

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Speaker 1: way catch here for sure.

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Speaker 2: So the the books themselves, or the stories themselves are

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Speaker 2: meant to be accounts of the cases of Sherlock Holmes

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Speaker 2: that were written by his sidekick, friend and roommate, John

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Speaker 2: Hamish Watson. He's a doctor, doctor John. Yeah, that's that

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Speaker 2: was his sidekick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So was that the one who was about spending the

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Speaker 2: night together there?

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Speaker 1: Uh? Yeah, I don't know much about doctor John. I

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Speaker 1: do know that he was the inspiration for the Muppet band, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, okay, that's a different way. No, I think

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Speaker 2: there's doctor Hooks in the Medicine show. I was just

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Speaker 2: doing Doctor John is awesome. I saw him open for

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Speaker 2: Cindy Lauper once. Oh wow, that was quite a combination,

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Speaker 2: it really is. No, this is a different doctor John.

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Speaker 2: This is doctor John Watson's sidekick to Sherlock Holmes, and

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Speaker 2: he supposedly is the one who's narrating and recounting all

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Speaker 2: of these things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and right away, right off the bat, he is

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Speaker 1: sort of picked apart and deduced by Holmes. When they

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Speaker 1: first meet, Watson was an army medic that was wounded

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Speaker 1: at the Battle of Maywand in Afghanistan, and Holmes picks

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Speaker 1: this up and Watson is like, oh my god, who

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Speaker 1: is this guy? Like, I can't believe this dude has

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Speaker 1: nailed this facet of my life right away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It was the first of many, many, many times

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Speaker 2: Watson would be astonished by Holmes's deductive reasoning skills.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's kind of the heart, right, like a Parenturrently,

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Speaker 1: Holmes isn't the most likable guy, but Watson really brings

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Speaker 1: the sort of heart to it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, he's warm, he's empathetic, he's just much It's

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Speaker 2: basically like you and me, right, Like, you're the heart,

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Speaker 2: You're the approachable guy, you're the folks he one. I'm

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Speaker 2: the one that's got this general please don't touch me vibe.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit like that. I'm not putting myself on

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Speaker 2: the same level of Shirlock Holmes, but in that sense,

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Speaker 2: I feel like we resemble it too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's just because you don't want people to

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Speaker 1: touch you please. You know, you can buy it honestly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's not like a put

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Speaker 2: on or anything. I really don't want to be touched.

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Speaker 1: So we mentioned that there were fictional detectives before. We

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Speaker 1: don't have to really go through, but there were like

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Speaker 1: thirteen that preceded him. But Holmes is really the one

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Speaker 1: that came along, like you said, and use this scientific

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Speaker 1: reasoning and powers of deduction. And it wasn't just some dumb,

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Speaker 1: blundering criminal, right that kind of gives himself away, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get into, you know, sort of why, but it's

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Speaker 1: because Doyle himself was medically trained and super on the

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Speaker 1: just in the know about what was going on with

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Speaker 1: modern policing and forensics and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so because of that he was able to

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Speaker 2: like really razzle dazzle is audience, Like it's stuff that

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Speaker 2: is just totally commonplace to us, was cutting edge of

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Speaker 2: the time, like collecting blood samples, analyzing like dust and

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Speaker 2: dirt and stuff like that to figure out where it

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Speaker 2: came from, looking at handwriting, microscopes, finger printing. All these

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Speaker 2: things were like brand spanking new in some cases where

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Speaker 2: his audience wouldn't have even heard of or thought about

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Speaker 2: this stuff. Sherlock Holmes is employing these techniques and in

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Speaker 2: the one. On the one hand, it is very razzle

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Speaker 2: dazzle like just as cutting edge as possible at the time.

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Speaker 2: But on the other hand too, he's he's basically he's

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Speaker 2: using science. He's using rational science and the scientific method

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Speaker 2: in applying it to solve any problem. And that was

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Speaker 2: very much like part of pop culture at the time.

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Speaker 2: This was prior to World War One, where we showed

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Speaker 2: like just how horrible science can go, where everybody was

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Speaker 2: all about science. Science can solve any single problem, and

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Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes is the embodiment of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure we should tick through a few more

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Speaker 1: of Holmes's sort of superpowers. As written by Doyle, this

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Speaker 1: is a pretty fun one that he could. He could

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Speaker 1: tell what a man did for a living by his fingernails,

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Speaker 1: by his coat sleeve, by his boots, by his trouser knees,

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Speaker 1: by the callusis of his forefinger and thumb, by his expression,

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Speaker 1: by his shirtcuff. He was a safe cracker and a

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Speaker 1: lock picker. Apparently, could tell the difference between one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty different types of tobacco ash and forty two

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Speaker 1: different bike tire treads.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, this is Virginia Slim.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's pretty fun though, like a pretty fun thing

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Speaker 1: to write, like a someone with almost superhuman. I mean,

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Speaker 1: people have made the case that he's sort of the

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Speaker 1: first superhero in a way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, And but he's again he's not. He's

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Speaker 2: a human person, like you know what I mean, Like

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Speaker 2: he is a genius he does have right, Yes, it

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Speaker 2: is true, and I think that kind of makes Batman

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Speaker 2: more accessible than say spider Man.

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Speaker 1: Well, spider Man was real too, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But he was bitten by a radio active spider.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you mean.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Batman came again, came across his powers through vas Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and enormous as well, for sure. But one of the

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Speaker 2: things that that Holmes was famous for, too, Chuck, is

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Speaker 2: he was able to hone in so fully on catching

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Speaker 2: somebody because he was very selective about the knowledge he

390
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Speaker 2: took on. In some cases, he was just ignorant about

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Speaker 2: stuff that anybody walking around would know about it. I

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Speaker 2: think there was a time where in one of the

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Speaker 2: stories where doctor Watson is explaining to him that the

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Speaker 2: Earth travels around the Sun, and Sherlock Holmes is like,

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Speaker 2: not only do I not know that, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: forget it now because I very carefully curate the information

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Speaker 2: that goes into my mind, because I only want the

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Speaker 2: stuff in there that's going to help me solve cases.

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Speaker 2: I would suggest that that actually could maybe come in

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Speaker 2: handy with shadows and time changes and stuff like that,

401
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Speaker 2: but maybe not. Maybe he didn't need that.

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Speaker 1: You would have been a good Watson, actually, Sherlock, if

403
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Speaker 1: you think about it, and he's like, no, no, no, no no.

404
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Speaker 2: I feel like I really would have annoyed Sherlock Holmes

405
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Speaker 2: if I had been a sidekick.

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Speaker 1: We both would have. So he's generally trying to do

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Speaker 1: the right thing. He's trying to catch the bad guy,

408
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Speaker 1: he's trying to aid the desperate. For the most part,

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Speaker 1: he protects England from Corruption's there was a time where,

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Speaker 1: and Doyle wrote this into the stories where there were

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Speaker 1: some just sort of notorious failures of the police not

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Speaker 1: catching Jack the Ripper being one of them, and so

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Speaker 1: he would like he would compensate for those failures. And

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Speaker 1: you know, even though he didn't have like maybe the

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Speaker 1: best personality, he was all about business and all about

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Speaker 1: getting it done.

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Speaker 2: And he was a Victorian gentleman, so he was an

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Speaker 2: upholder of the social order and social hierarchies. He knew

419
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Speaker 2: how to navigate that stuff. But at the same time

420
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Speaker 2: he was also a critic of them. Like he saw

421
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Speaker 2: very clearly just how arbitrary and capricious the social hierarchies

422
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Speaker 2: in Great Britain were and are, and he criticized them

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Speaker 2: personally to himself. He made no effort or action to

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Speaker 2: make any changes to them. He just saw them for

425
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Speaker 2: what they were, which was fraudulent and harmful.

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Speaker 1: Typically, Yeah, for sure, we should probably talk a little

427
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Speaker 1: bit more about Doyle. He was from Edinburgh, a town

428
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Speaker 1: that we have performed live in, one of the great

429
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Speaker 1: towns in Scotland.

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Speaker 2: One of the great towns in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I should have broadened that out. It was amazing.

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Speaker 2: There's only like two pounds in Scotland.

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Speaker 1: Oh, come on, we were got such a good fath there.

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Speaker 1: He trained to become a doctor, so we had medical training.

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Speaker 1: And it looks like he worked as a sort of

436
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: ship doctor on some like a whaling vessel and a

437
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: cargo steamer in West Africa. And he was always a

438
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, a good and talented writer. And apparently while

439
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: he was you know, not getting his medical practice going

440
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: to the degree where he could sustain himself financially. He

441
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: wrote this very first story. He still looked for three

442
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: pounds to a periodical and the only, well seemingly the

443
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: only reason he got his first novel, A Study in

444
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: Scarlett published, was because the wife of a publisher at

445
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: Wardlocking Company was like, you got to publish this guy's novel.

446
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: It's like it's really good.

447
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're like, we'll give you twenty five pounds

448
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: for it was about think two hundred pounds today. Maybe

449
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I did the conversion, but I can't

450
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: read my own handwriting. And they were the ones who

451
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: published that Breton's Miss Annuel, so that's where it first

452
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: popped up. But after it started to get more and

453
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: more popular when they appeared in Strand Magazine, he started

454
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: to be able to command a little more money. So

455
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: he sold a dozen to Strand Magazine for one thousand pounds,

456
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: which today would be about one hundred and ten thousand

457
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: pounds or one hundred and fifty thousand US dollars. And

458
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 2: there's a thing that he's fairly well known for. He

459
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: wrote the Sherlock Holmes stories, eventually almost against his will,

460
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: for money he considered himself a much better writer than

461
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: a writer of pulp crime fiction. Yeah, and he wrote

462
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 2: the Sherlock Holmes stories because he essentially needed money all

463
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: the time, even though he was making gobs of it.

464
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seemed like It's not I don't

465
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: think he like hated his legacy, but it definitely seemed

466
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: like everything I read he was like, you know, I'm

467
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: writing these other books too, and all everyone cares about

468
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: are these Sherlock Holmes books, right, I mean this little

469
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: In fact, he wrote the original book The Lost World,

470
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 1: which is also a film in nineteen twenty five, and

471
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: Michael Crichton directly paid homage with his own novel The

472
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: Lost World. Yeah, and it's basically I mean, it's not

473
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: the same plot, but it deals with people going to

474
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: a place in South America where there are prehistoric you know,

475
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: animals living.

476
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: Yes, and Arthur Conan Doyle was the first person who

477
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: wrote hang On to Your Butts.

478
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: Well, apparently Crichton was inspired to bring back Malcolm. I

479
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: think he killed off Malcolm and brought him back to life.

480
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that was also and I don't know

481
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: if it was an homage, but more of like, well, Hey,

482
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: Doyle did it with Home, so I can do it

483
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: with Malcolm right exactly.

484
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Doyle tried to kill off Sherlock Holmes at one point, unsuccessfully,

485
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 2: it turned out, and the reason why he had a

486
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: quote he said that I've had such an overdose of

487
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 2: homes that I feel towards him as I do toward

488
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: Petit de foi gras, of which I once ate too

489
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: much so that the name of it gives me a

490
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: sickly feeling to this day. That's how I was just

491
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: sick of Sherlock Holmes. He was that it was like

492
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 2: eating too much fois grass, which I can imagine is

493
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: not a very comfortable sensation.

494
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: I'll have none of it, thank you. One thing we

495
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: talked about Doyle before another podcast, I think when we

496
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: did episodes on like spiritualism and seances and things. That

497
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: was kind of one of his Aside from writing these books,

498
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: he was very well known for being into spiritualism. After

499
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: his son died in nineteen eighteen, he would go to

500
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: up seances and try to, you know, make contact with

501
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: his son, which is super sad to think about. I

502
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: know that we definitely talked about him when we mentioned

503
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: the photograph that supposedly showed real fairies from Elsie Wright girls,

504
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: Elsie Wright and Francis Griffiths, and Doyle famously was like, no,

505
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: this is totally real, everybody.

506
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Cottingham Fairies. Remember we build a whole episode

507
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: around the one thing that should have just been a

508
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: short stuff.

509
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've done that before.

510
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it was really surprising and shocking to Doyle's

511
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 2: friends his fans, like this is the opposite of what

512
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes would do, you know, getting spiritualism. But he

513
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 2: was tenacious, like he was a true believer. And he

514
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: was friends with Harry Houdini, and they were an odd

515
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 2: pair because Houdini was a voracious skeptic. He couldn't stand mediums.

516
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: He liked to unmask mediums, and Conan Doyle would support

517
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: them by going to them, and he Conan Doyle thought

518
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Houdini had supernatural powers, despite Hoodini saying like, no, these

519
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 2: are all tricks. Yeah, like I'm just doing these I'm

520
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: not going to tell you how I did it, but

521
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: these are tricks. Please believe me. And I would be like, yeah,

522
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: I read between the lies or did you just supernatural?

523
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: Did you just wink at me?

524
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: Right? Exactly.

525
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: It's like Constanzo.

526
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was just he was just do Yeah,

527
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: that's a great one. But he was just it was

528
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: just his thing. He could not be persuaded out of

529
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: believing in spiritualism.

530
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: There's also been a lot of you know, ideas over

531
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: his history about who, like who he was based on.

532
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: Was there a real Sherlock Holmes. The name itself comes

533
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: from American doctor Oliver Wendell Holmes, because again Doyle was

534
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: trained as a doctor, so I guess that was just

535
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: a homage on his part. There's a historian named Angela

536
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: Buckley that claims there was a Victorian police officer named

537
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: Jerome Caminada that inspired him. But Doyle himself says, now,

538
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,959
Speaker 1: the inspiration was a guy that taught me in medical school.

539
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: He was my third year instructor of clinical surgery. His

540
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: name was doctor Joseph Bell, and he had this sort

541
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: of party trick that he would do in lectures and

542
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: stuff where he would sort of demonstrate, I almost said,

543
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: Doyle Holmes like qualities of deducing things from little mundane

544
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: details about somebody.

545
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, like where someone had been, whether they were a sailor,

546
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: if they smoked. Apparently very famously. He once said, madam,

547
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: I would ask you to reveal your pipe, and everyone

548
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 2: gasped us this old lady who showed her pipe, and

549
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: that was clearly the root of her problem, and he

550
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: just deduced it from a lower lip ulcer and a

551
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: little bit a little scar on her cheek. He could

552
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: do that with everybody. So that part of Holmes is

553
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: definitely from Joseph Bell. I mean, like you said, he

554
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: said as much. But Angela Buckley has a pretty good

555
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: claim that Jerome Kaminada inspired him too. If you look

556
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: into Kamanada, he would use disguises. He was doing police

557
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: work that now today is just part of police worker.

558
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: At the time, he was the only one on the

559
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: Manchester Force who was doing this stuff, so it was

560
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: probably an amalgamation of a bunch of different people all

561
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: combined with Doyle's command of science, cutting edge science at

562
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: the time.

563
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, on that note, we've talked about

564
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: how he was using all of these sort of modern

565
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: things to inspire the stories. It actually happened the other

566
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: way as well, which is super cool, Like there were

567
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: real investigators that were doing things that they found that

568
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: Holmes did in the novels and I mean, that's super cool.

569
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: It wasn't they knew that there was sound science behind it,

570
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: so there was I think there was a French criminologist

571
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: named Edmund Locard who basically was like, yeah, I do

572
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff that Sherlock Holmes does in

573
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 1: his books because it's super smart and a good way

574
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: to catch somebody.

575
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's also this instance of life imitating art

576
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: that showed up in the story The Problem of thor Bridge.

577
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: And in the story, I guess, the victim takes their

578
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: own life by shooting themselves with a gun that's tied

579
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: to a rock with a short rope, and they shoot

580
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: themselves on a bridge over a waterway, so that as

581
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: they fall to the ground, the gun is pulled down

582
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: into the water and it looks like it was a

583
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: homicide so the family can collect insurance. Well, there's no

584
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: less than two people out there who seem to have

585
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: been directly inspired by the story in real life did

586
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: the same thing. And it turns out that it gets

587
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: even more twisted because Arthur Conan Doyle probably got his

588
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: idea for the Problem with thor Bridge from a case

589
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: that was written about by Austrian criminologist Hans Gross in

590
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: eighteen ninety three where this this thing actually happened. So

591
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: you have a case of life imitating art imitating life.

592
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well. Engross is another one of those who was

593
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: like picking up stuff from the novels to use in

594
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: everyday work. Like you mentioned dust, like gathering dust and packets,

595
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: and Locard was telling like the police, the policeman on

596
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: his staff like, hey, you should read these you guys

597
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: should read these books.

598
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like Arthur conan Doyle's character Sherlotte Colmes was the

599
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: first to basically say, we need to not contaminate crime scenes.

600
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: They need to be preserved as they are when we

601
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: come upon them. This is before cops were even doing that,

602
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: like cutting in cops were even doing it, Like he

603
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 2: was just laying down some amazing stuff.

604
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: Should we take another break?

605
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,479
Speaker 2: After me saying something like he was laying down some

606
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: amazing stuff, I feel like it's yeah, we need to.

607
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back.

608
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: So we're back, Chuck. And even Conan Doyle was surprised

609
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: by how popular his character was and he couldn't quite

610
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: figure out why. He just assumed it was a distraction

611
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: from everyday life. Other people have said It probably also

612
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: has a lot to do with the short story form,

613
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: the fact that they pretty like action starts taking place

614
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But at the same time, a lot of

615
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: the stories start out with Watson and Sherlock Holmes hanging

616
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: out in their sitting room and there's like a fire

617
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: burning or it's just like like Conan Doyle adds just

618
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: enough detail here there to really kind of make it engrossing.

619
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: But then it takes off, and like we said, it

620
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: follows that formula. So there's a comforting familiarity to the

621
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: whole thing that a lot of people make point to

622
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: is like this is why it's endured for so long.

623
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a cozy quality, yes.

624
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: Cozy mystery kind of thing, but then it branches out

625
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: into the world of Victorian London.

626
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: So, like you said, he was surprised because I'm not

627
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: only surprised at like, hey, people are really liking this,

628
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: but that just wasn't a thing there. That kind of

629
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: fandom wasn't a thing. It was probably the first time

630
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: that there were groups of people getting together and like

631
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: talking about this stuff and forming like fan groups. Maybe

632
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: the first fan fiction. As it turns out, Jay and Barry,

633
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: who was a contemporary obviously, the creator of Peter Pan

634
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety one anonymously wrote My Evening with Sherlock Holmes,

635
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: which is sort of the first fanfic perhaps.

636
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was kind of a good example of

637
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: how he changed fandom or created fandom where readers stopped

638
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: just kind of passively consuming stuff and started being like,

639
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 2: there's a there's a parasocial exchange going on here, like

640
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: we own you, you belong to us, Give us more.

641
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: You know what George R. Or Martin went through when

642
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: he hadn't finished that.

643
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: Last Yeah, yeah, that last book.

644
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: Like that was essentially Arthur Conan Doyle's fault.

645
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. And like you said earlier, when he tried to

646
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: kill well, not tried, when he killed them off, there

647
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: was a revolt. There were twenty thousand Strand subscribers who

648
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: canceled their subscriptions. They would write these, you know, hateful

649
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: angry letters of the time. It wouldn't be like the

650
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: hateful angry letter you would get today. I think one

651
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: of them started with you brute, which is, you know,

652
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: that's pretty tough language for back then for sure. And

653
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: then so he needed money and so he was like,

654
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: all right, I guess I need to write another one

655
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: of these things. So he published The Hound of the Baskervilles,

656
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: which was sort of a prequel. It wasn't bringing him

657
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: back from the dead just yet. It was Holmes before

658
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: he died. He finally resurrected him in the Adventure of

659
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: the Empty House in nineteen oh three and just said

660
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: he faked his death.

661
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And everybody was like, fine, we don't care. I'm

662
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: glad you brought him back.

663
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: He could just said it was magic and they would

664
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: have been like, okay, fine.

665
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he came back with it just a classic

666
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: right off the cup. The Hound of the Baskervilles is

667
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: probably the most well known Sherlock Holmes case, and it's

668
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: just a really well written book, and it's been adapted

669
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: into movie after movie after movie, apparently.

670
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: More than twenty of them.

671
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: I think, oh, really, I'm surprised it's actually not more.

672
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: There was one called Derhound von Baskerville, and that was

673
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: a favorite of Hitler's, who's now made two appearances in

674
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes episode. Did not expect that. No, But part

675
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: of this whole thing that we kind of I mentioned

676
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: Douleian interpretation earlier. There's this thing that's a part of

677
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: being a Sherlock Holmes fan. Again, in North America they're

678
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: called Sherlockians. In the UK they're called Holmesians. And if

679
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 2: you're a Sherlock Holmes fan, there's a really good chance

680
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 2: that you treat this whole thing as if these are

681
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: real accounts of real life, historical happenings, that are the

682
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: cases of a real life detective named Sherlock Holmes, and

683
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 2: that these were written by real life doctor and friend

684
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: to Holmes, John Watson, and that Arthur Conan Doyle was

685
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: Watson's literary agent, and that they it just goes from there,

686
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: And it's really important to remember you don't just completely

687
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: take leave of your senses when you become a Sherlock

688
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: Holmes fan. This is all tongue in cheek, it's all whimsical,

689
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: but the way that they treat it is very serious.

690
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 2: And they use like actual like literary analysis in genealogy

691
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: and all this stuff to basically tease out as much

692
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 2: information as they can about the real life homes and

693
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: real life Watson. And they call the whole thing the

694
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: Grand Game. And it's definitely a cornerstone of being a

695
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes fan.

696
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super cool. And I think the sort of

697
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: origins of that were in nineteen eleven when a guy

698
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: named Ronald Knox wrote a spoof textual analysis and he

699
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: would you know, that's where it became. He would say

700
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: things like sacred writings, and that's when the official canon

701
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: was born. And like you said, that lives on today

702
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: with the Grand Game and specifically the biggest group. I mean,

703
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: there's plenty of groups, there's no shortage. I'm sure there's

704
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: one in your town, unless you know you live in

705
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: like the tiniest town imaginable, there's probably a Shirlock Holmes

706
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: group there you get together with. But the most famous

707
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: one is called the Baker Street Irregulars out of New York.

708
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: It is an invitation only group. It was founded in

709
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, and it seems like, you know, it's

710
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: pretty hard to get in. Isaac Asimov was in FDR,

711
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: was in there. I believe. The one in England is

712
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: called the Sherlock Holmes Society of London. Yeah, and they

713
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: just they get together, they dress up, they have some

714
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: dinner and they play the Grand Game, which sounds like

715
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: a lot of fun quite honestly, Yeah.

716
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: I read in an article I could not find it

717
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: for life of me where the author the journalist was

718
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 2: invited to one of these meetings, and it just sounded

719
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: so fun and so cool. But yeah, that's I think

720
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: it's interesting that the American chapter is like the founding

721
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 2: fan chapter Fan Club of Sherlock Holmes, not the British one.

722
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

723
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: And they actually are so essentially powerful that they actually

724
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: grant like official status to other chapters Elsewhere. I found

725
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: one called the Shaka Sherlockians of Hawaii. They were basically

726
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: given official status by the Baker Street Irregulars. It's a

727
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: great website. If you want to know more in a

728
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 2: lot of detail about Sherlock Holmes, go check out Shaka Sherlockians.

729
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: It's pretty fun.

730
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: Well, we mentioned adaptations. There have been tons of them.

731
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: I said, there have been over twenty film or TV

732
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 1: versions of The Hound of the Baskervilles. Specifically the first one,

733
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: and yes, you are correct, that was a stage version

734
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety nine from William Gillette where the line

735
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: elementary my dear fellow first came along. And I mean,

736
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: you name it. How many movies have there been? Total?

737
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: Do we even know I'm sure seventy.

738
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: Million, I think a lot. Yeah, I'm not. Yes, you

739
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 2: bet your sweet Pippy that there's a Sherlockean out there

740
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: who knows exactly how many movies there are.

741
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think depending on who asked, taste

742
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: differs obviously, but the Private Life of Sherlock Holmes from

743
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy from Billy Wilder is generally regarded as like

744
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: one of the best adaptations, even though it was a

745
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: box office failure and it had a pretty troubled production

746
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: m it just brought a little a wit to it

747
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: thanks to Billy Wilder obviously that hadn't been there before,

748
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: and I think Wilder definitely hammered home. The subtext at

749
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: Holmes perhaps is gay.

750
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, he later said that he regretted not coming out

751
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: and actually saying it. That was definitely his intent, but

752
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 2: it's not ambiguous in the movie, And just reading about

753
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: the movie in and of itself is pretty interesting. But

754
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: it's one of the reasons why it's so beloved by

755
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: Sherlock fans is the attention to detail, and that's like

756
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: true to the cannon is unparalleled, Like no one I

757
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: don't think has ever really done it. That well, even

758
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: though the actual like plot and everything that's going on

759
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: the point is just so wildly outside of the canon.

760
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: It's a weird amalgam of it.

761
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was Robert Stevens played Homes in that film.

762
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: One of the more beloved performances was Jeremy Brett in

763
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: the eighty four through ninety four A Granada television series.

764
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: I don't really know how people feel about the Guy

765
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: Richie stuff. I haven't seen those movies or read much criticism.

766
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: You haven't seen the movies, no, I've literally never seen

767
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: any Sherlock Holmes sing or read any Sherlock holmsing.

768
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: Wow. I don't know if the first one you should

769
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: see is the Guy Ritchie versions. But they're really interesting

770
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 2: interpretations of it. Like they get in fights, like they throw,

771
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: they throw fists and stuff, like Sherlock Holmes beats people up.

772
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: It's really interesting. But it also is very true to

773
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: the canon too, so I think a lot of people

774
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: actually like it, like even Sherlockians.

775
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: Right, maybe you know what I have seen something because

776
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: I forgot. I have seen both of the Anola Holmes films.

777
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go.

778
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: In which Anola Holmes is the twenty year younger sister

779
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: of Sherlock. I believe she's like fourteenish in the movies

780
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,760
Speaker 1: and played by uh, what's your name? Millie Bobby Brown

781
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: eleven hit from Stranger Things, and we watch those with

782
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: the family and Ruby and Emily and I all quite

783
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: enjoyed those movies.

784
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so you like those.

785
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: I did like those. But Sherlock is very adjacent in

786
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: those films.

787
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: No, for sure. I'm just trying to think of what

788
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: the first thing you should see is. I really don't

789
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: think it should be the guy RITI once, Maybe Watson,

790
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, probably not that despite the clip that

791
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: I saw, it does seem to not be very well loved.

792
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: Well Cumberbatch. I'll like Cumberbatch. He did a modern one, right.

793
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually you mentioned that Billy Wilder kind of

794
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: brought like a little bit of humor comedy to it.

795
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: That guy carried on by Sherlock on BBC. That was

796
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: Benedict Cumberbatch. I don't know. I can't really recommend what

797
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: to go into. Hopefully some of our bigger Sherlocky and

798
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: fans can recommend where to start to you, because you

799
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: really should. You should at least see one thing, if

800
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: not read one thing and just see what you think.

801
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: I like Johnny Lee Miller in that Elementary sounds interesting.

802
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: Okay. Do you like Lucy Lou two?

803
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: Yeah?

804
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: Sure she And there you go, my friend, You're gonna

805
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: love Elementary.

806
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: I think maybe I'll check out one of those. But

807
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there's somebody in my head that I picture

808
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: from a kid. Would that have been the TV show?

809
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: The one I mentioned is the most like beloved portrayal?

810
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: Maybe Jeremy Brett. You weren't a kid in nineteen eighty four.

811
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't a kid in nineteen eighty four.

812
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 2: No, you were nearly a grown man at age fourteen.

813
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: It was thirteen. Thank you. That may be the one

814
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: I'm thinking in my head, because I just when I

815
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: think in my mind of Sherlock Holmes as a TV

816
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: portrayal or whatever, this one dude pops into my head,

817
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: and I bet you that's who that is.

818
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 2: Did you watch a lot of Masterpiece Theater as a

819
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: thirteen year old?

820
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: A little bit here and there?

821
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: Oh, and maybe that is.

822
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: What it was.

823
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, supposedly he is the one who did the best

824
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: out of all.

825
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: Of them all right.

826
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 2: Interestingly, though, Johnny Lee Miller was the one who's portrayed

827
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: him the most, with one hundred and four one hundred

828
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: and fifty four episodes on that show Elementary. That was

829
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 2: a little trivia for you.

830
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: That's modern times set right, Yes, that.

831
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: And Sherlock are both set in modern times. And if

832
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: you go back to the actual stories, they're all set

833
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: in Victorian England, even though he was writing them well

834
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 2: outside of Victorian England by the time he wrapped them up.

835
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: Well, this all brings up the sort of ending here

836
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: is that can anyone just make this or do they

837
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: have to pay for the rights or is it still

838
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 1: in is it in the public domain? And the answer

839
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: is it's been fairly complicated for a while now, I

840
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: mean up until recently that is.

841
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. So his son's one of their widow's producer and

842
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: someone else basically got together when Conan Doyle died in

843
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty and they were like, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine,

844
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: and they managed to gather up all the rights to

845
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: all of the Sherlock Holmes writing the character every and

846
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: consolidated it into Conan Doyle Estate Limited. And if you

847
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 2: had anything that you wanted to do with Sherlock Holmbs,

848
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: you had to go through them, and you had to

849
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: pay them whatever they wanted, essentially, and they ruled Sherlock

850
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: Holmes's intellectual property with an iron fist for almost a century,

851
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: and they really got a bad reputation for it. But

852
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 2: despite that, that just goes to show how popular Sherlock

853
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: Holmes is. People kept dealing with them to make Sherlock

854
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: Holmes movies, books, fan fiction analysis, basically everything amazing.

855
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: There was one pretty famous case where the movie seven

856
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: Percent Solution from the seventies from nineteen seventy four from

857
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: director Herbert Ross. Apparently they thought it was in the

858
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: public domain and it wasn't.

859
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: Man, what a surprise that would have been.

860
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you I don't know. Maybe I guess

861
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: things were different back then in seventy four, but how

862
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: does this studio not know that when they greenlight it.

863
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 2: I don't know. That one was interesting though I looked

864
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: it up. I was about to ask if you'd seen it,

865
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: but I know the answer that apparently Sherlock Combs is cocaine.

866
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 2: You spirals out of control and Watson sends him to

867
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: Vienna to be cured by Sigmund Freud.

868
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to be pretty weird.

869
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty interesting sounding though too. But they ended

870
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: up making it. I think they just had to pay

871
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: retroactively for it.

872
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah that's when they've really got you over a barrel.

873
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, I know.

874
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: But the.

875
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: Copyright ran out finally unambiguously to all Sherlock Combs stuff,

876
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: just this past twenty twenty three, I guess, right, Yeah.

877
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: I think initially it ran out in the UK in

878
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and then it was ninety eight in the US.

879
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: But there was a family argument that like, no, he

880
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: wrote these over a long period of time, over decades,

881
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: so like the whole thing needs to go expire by

882
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: the last story he wrote, was their argument.

883
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was so developed that like he was

884
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: a flat character, and really the character of Sherlock Comes

885
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: that everybody portrays is the final ones that we own

886
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: the copyright too. And I think a judge finally told

887
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 2: them to go soak their heads, essentially said that what

888
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: they their strategy was a form of extortion. Yeah, so

889
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: they finally lost it. I don't know what they're doing nowadays. Oh,

890
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: I know what they're doing. They're essentially authenticating new stuff

891
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: so you can get their blessing and make it like

892
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: an official Sherlock Holmes mystery that you wrote.

893
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: But that's why something like Will Ferrell and John c

894
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 1: Riley's Holmes and Watson could come along, right, they could

895
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: just do it all of a sudden.

896
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: I think that was I think they would have had

897
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: to have paid for it because I think it was

898
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: from like twenty eighteen.

899
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so even though yeah, I guess the family won

900
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: that argument then huh.

901
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they lost too many cases. I

902
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: think it was quite near the end of the copyright,

903
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 2: I gotcha. Yeah, so I'm sure that they had to

904
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 2: pay for the use of that, and I'm sure they

905
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: lost money on it.

906
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: Well, I wonder now, I mean, I don't think so

907
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: far we've seen any like abomination where they've you know,

908
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: like they make Mickey Mouse a serial killer and stuff now,

909
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm curious to see if someone's going to

910
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: do like a Sherlock Holmes thing where he's the batty.

911
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure some stuff you should know. Listeners went, Wow,

912
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 2: that's a good idea, Chuck, It's.

913
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: A really bad idea because people would be pretty angry.

914
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: I would imagine.

915
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to mess with something like that

916
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: he's good.

917
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Will Ferrell's just now recovering.

918
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 2: I want to give a couple of shouts out. First

919
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: of all, Kyle, our writer, Kyle helped us out with

920
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: this one, so if we got anything wrong, blame Kyle.

921
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: And then also we heard from friend of the show,

922
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: Richard Fallwall, who wrote in when we first talked about

923
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: doing a Sherlock Holmes episode on some other episode, and

924
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: he's like, yes, do and listen to Stephen Fry's Audible

925
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: collection of all of the Sherlock Holmes cannon works.

926
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: Is it?

927
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: Even if you don't do that, listen to Stephen Fry's

928
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 2: like introductions to each of the collections. And I listened

929
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: to one of them, and he's right there, amazing, just

930
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: charming interpretations of what's going on in these and the

931
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 2: way the effect that they had in real life. So

932
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 2: you can go out and listen to that on audible.

933
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: Apparently it's seventy two hours long.

934
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Well can you imagine We can vouch and

935
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: say that due to our selects episodes on Saturday. Sometimes

936
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 1: it intro is the best part for sure.

937
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: Oh and one more thing I want to shout out.

938
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: I guess you haven't seen this either. You have to

939
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: see this, no matter what you think of whatever people

940
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: tell you to watch or read. See mister Holmes eventually

941
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: with Ian McKellen, just the most art house of the

942
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes movies.

943
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: It's so good.

944
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 2: But it's about him retired as a beekeeper, which is

945
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 2: part of the canon too.

946
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: I love Ian McKellen, so I'll check that.

947
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 2: Out, Okay, but just put it off to the side.

948
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:49,959
Speaker 2: Don't make that the first one you see.

949
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's it. Chuck Great, Sherlock Holmes. I'm

950
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna watch something. I promise everybody. I'm gonna

951
00:49:58,360 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: watch something.

952
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, right in and Chuck know what he should.

953
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: Watch or read something even better?

954
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing?

955
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: All right?

956
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, since Chuck said right, that means it's time

957
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: for a listener mail.

958
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: Hey guys, on the Anaconda episode, you tried to work

959
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: out how and the heck green Anacon has made it

960
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: to Trinidad when the Caribbean island is separated from Venezuela

961
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: by mere seven miles of ocean water. Well, guys, I'm

962
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: from Trinidad, so maybe I can help. We can easily

963
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: see Venezuela from certain parts of our country. And that's

964
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: because Trinidad, unlike the other islands of the Caribbean, is

965
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: not connected to the ocean floor. It actually rests on

966
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: the submerged continental shelf that extends from the coastline of

967
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: Venezuela into the Atlantic Ocean. All the other islands in

968
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: the Caribbean Archipelago are volcanic, reaching up from the seafloor,

969
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: but not us. Ours is a continental island that was

970
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: once part of the South American mainland. Essentially, there was

971
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: a land bridge between Trinidad and Venezuela as recently as

972
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 1: the Last Ice Age. As such, our flora and fauna

973
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: are pretty much identical to those found in Venezuela and

974
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: even deeper into South America and hint Anaconda's baby. They

975
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: terrified my childhood because they are in our rainforest and

976
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: big ones that come into town bordering the forest like

977
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: where I lived. Anyway, I stopped the podcast midst stream

978
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: to quickly tell Josh in real time your hypothesis was

979
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: spot on.

980
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: Thank you. I love emails like that.

981
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: Warmest regards, and that is from Revel.

982
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: Thanks Revel. That was a great, great email and we

983
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Thanks for clearing that up for us. If

984
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: you want to be like Revel, you can send us

985
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 2: an email too. It's stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

986
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

987
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

988
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.