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We've all felt left out and 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: for people who moved to this country, that feeling lasts 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: it Belonging begins with us dot Org. Brought to you 13 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: by the Ad Council. I'm Tanya sam Post of the 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: Money Moves Podcast powered by Greenwood. This daily podcast will 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: help give you the keys to the Kingdom of financial stability, 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: wealth and abundance with celebrity guests like Rick Ross, Amanda Sells, 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Angela Ye, Roland, Martin, JB. Smooth into roll Owens. Tune 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: in to learn how to turn liabilities into assets and 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: make your money moves. Subscribe to the Money Moves podcast 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: powered by Greenland on the I Heart Radio app or 21 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you leave 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: a review. My next guest is a Craig Melvin. He's 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: the co host of The Today Show and the author 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: of the book Pops Learning to Be a Son and 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: the Father. You may know Crigts and the war winning 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: news anchor. As I said earlier on the Today's Show. 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: You also have seen him on MSNBC Live and the 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: host of Dateline. He's on the show discussed his book, 29 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: Pops Learning to Be a Son and the Father. It's 30 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: the story of all the father figures in Craig's life, 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: and that includes inspiring men from his program or his 32 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: series called Dad's Got This series on NBC NBC News Today. 33 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: These experiences and encounters have shaped crests understanding of his 34 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: own role as a dad, and I'm sure I can 35 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: be related. We'll have a nice conversation since Father's Day 36 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: has recently passed. He has two young children. Please welcome 37 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: the money making conversation. My man, Craig Melvin, how you 38 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: don't create Sean? I'm well I'm well, thank you so 39 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: much for having me. I always enjoy your conversation, so 40 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: I don't have to be a part of one. Thank you. Man. 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: A Southern boy, South Carolina, Okay, you know, uh, you 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: know when I when I see people on TV and 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: you saw articulate, there's no yalls, there's no access. How 44 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: does a man come straight out of Columbia? I know 45 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: color because Steve Harvey. I used to go down a 46 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: lot of performative town center selling that place out all 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: the time. So I'm fair for me with South Carolina, Charleston, 48 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: that whole low country. There's no low country in your tone? 49 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: What's going on there? You are? You break that low 50 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: country accent? Low country accent? Funny because I did. I 51 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: never I never had it. My mom, Uh, you'll appreciate this. 52 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: Growing up in Houston, Uh, the way that you grew up. 53 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: My mom grew up in the projects and first in 54 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: the family to go to college and first in the 55 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: family to get a graduate degree. So when we came along, 56 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: she wanted to expose us to two things and places 57 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: that she had not been exposed to. And consequently, I 58 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: think it's that was probably fourteen or fifteen and she 59 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: had us take part in these oratorical contests. Um and 60 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: and that was was kind of how it started. So 61 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: I took some public speaking classes and then these oratorical contests, 62 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: and then the next thing you knew, I had what 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: they what they like to call in the business a 64 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: nondescript dialect. You can't really tell based on listening to 65 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: me where I'm from. It's a blessing. Now. When I 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: was growing up, it was always he's he's talking white. Absolutely, 67 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: he talks like he talks like a white boy. So 68 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it was the curse. Now it's 69 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: a blessing. Well, you know, it's interesting because I knew 70 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: in my middle school. I remember my teacher used to 71 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: always ask me to read, just always ask me to read. 72 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: And you know, people talk about bullying, and you know, 73 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: when you people are talking about they call you snowflake. 74 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: That was amal bully. And then so it's it's popularized 75 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: now because people are willing to talk about it. But 76 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: we all grew up in some form of physical or 77 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: mental abuse from high school kids or people in the neighborhood. 78 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: And my remember this, this this girl, she made such 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: a big deal that I was always asked to read that. 80 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: It almost, I have to say, traumatized me because I 81 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: went exactly the opposite. I wanted to talk, I wanted 82 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: to say, ain't I wanted to have I wanted to 83 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: slur my word. I wanted to fit in. And so 84 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: what you I bring that story up because you talked 85 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: about because you was hit with it. You was hit, 86 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, talking why I didn't want to act? Why 87 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: you you're calling you snowflake? What kept you focused? What 88 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: kept you from from veering off like I veered off? 89 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: I veered off and I said, hey, man, I want 90 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: to fit in and not be me. You know, I 91 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: think it was I wroted about in the book. My mother. 92 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: My mother really sean. I mean she um she she 93 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: kept us on the straight and narrow at the time. Uh. 94 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: We we resented the strictness. I mean my mom, she 95 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: knew all of our friends, and she all of her parents. 96 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to stay out past you know, during 97 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: the week maybe nine o'clock, maybe on the weekends when 98 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: kids were going to parties and having fun. I was 99 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: doing oratorical contests and activities, and I went to in 100 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: high school. I think I probably went to maybe three 101 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: high school football games on Friday night. I just I didn't. 102 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: I grew up with a very tight leash, right uh. 103 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: And And part of it was my mother overcompensating for 104 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: for my father not being the kind of dad that 105 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: he should have been. But part of it was mom knew. 106 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: She knew back then, I think kind of what it took. 107 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: She was a school teacher, then she went into an administration. 108 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: She knew what it took um to to shape and 109 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: mold young black boys, especially right, And and that was it. 110 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: Had it not been for her, had I grown up 111 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: in another house, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Well, 112 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, I write you a book, you know the 113 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: book we're talking for talking to interviewing Craig Melvin, his 114 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: book Pops, Learning to Be a Son and the Father. 115 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: Is it because the fact that your father wasn't there, 116 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: that she may be overcompensated and wanted to make sure 117 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: you didn't you had a better life, or you pursue 118 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: the options even though I knew she went to college. 119 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: And think in the age of twenty two is when 120 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: she became pregnant with you. Well, talk about that in 121 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: the middle because as we talked about trying to shape 122 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: you because of the fact that you've been shaped by 123 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially to the stories that were 124 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: wanta talk about the the president incident when he was 125 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: out of camp grades. How that really kind of like 126 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: started you in this direction of humanizing all men, especially 127 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: men who are incoss already. Talk about your mom in 128 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: her role versus your dad role because you mentioned it 129 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: just a little bit, but that sent ers around us 130 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: getting into the story and your father changing his life 131 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: at the age of sixt or seven. Mom, Yeah, Mom, Mom. 132 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: Mom had to play the role of mom and dad 133 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: for the better part of my challenge. Um, it was, 134 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: it was. It was a role that she was. Yeah, 135 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: she was unfortunately well prepared for it because she ended 136 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: up she had to take care of her three younger 137 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: siblings UM when she was in college and her father 138 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: skipped out of the family. Ended up essentially dying on 139 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: the streets and squalord. But no a mom. Because my 140 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: father was not physically present as often as I would 141 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: have liked, and my younger brother would have liked my 142 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: older brother as well. Mom stepped in the trip to 143 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: fill the gap. She filled her She filled her boy 144 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: and not just not just being present in a sense 145 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: of sean a little league games or soccer games or 146 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: or concerts, not just physically present, but but but emotionally 147 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: president right A spiritually present. I mean, the relationship that 148 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: I have with God is because of my mother's relationship 149 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: with God. So it was it was divine intervention. You know, 150 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: had I had any other mother, things would not have 151 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: gone the way that they did. But you know, it's 152 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: it's also and I write about in the book as 153 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, and I do appreciate the fact that you 154 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: read the book. You'd be surprised. And how often to 155 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: talk to people about books and they haven't read word one, 156 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: But I can tell you read the whole thing. And 157 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: I read about in the book. My father, I asked 158 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: him doing the course of my my interviews with him 159 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: for the book. I said, Pops, what was the most 160 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: money you ever wasted? M Without missing a beat, he 161 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: said it was about fifts back in nineteen six. I said, 162 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: that was a lot of money back then, when you 163 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: spend that money on he said, that's how much. That's 164 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: how much it cost to put my daddy in the ground. 165 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: And in that moment I realized, Um, that While I 166 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: had been frustrated by the lack of relationship I had 167 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: with my dad, it was exponentially better than the relationship 168 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: he had with his own father. Right, he didn't know 169 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: who his dad was until he was almost a teenager, 170 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: So it was it was wholly on realistic of me 171 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: to expect him to be the kind of dad that 172 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: I had come to to to idolize. He couldn't be 173 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: it because he hadn't seen it, and you can't be 174 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: something trust that. It's really hard to be something. Yes, 175 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: if if you if you haven't seen it, if you 176 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: haven't been exposed to it. So that's what my dad 177 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: was up against. It's finally here, the season of celebration, 178 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: and no matter how you celebrate with family and friends, 179 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: whether you're preparing for Reyus Magos or Karamu lighting the Manura, 180 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: are going to midnight mass, Coals has just what you 181 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: need to make those traditions special. Plus you'll find gifts 182 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: for all your loved ones. Send warm wishes with Cozy 183 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: Fleece's sweaters, loungeware, blankets and throws. Support minority owned or 184 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: founded brands by giving gifts from Human Nation and Shame 185 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: Moisture or treat them to everyone's favorite active war from 186 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: top brands like Nike, Adidas, and under Armour. And in 187 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: the spirit of giving, Coals Cares is donating eight million 188 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: dollars to local nonprofits nationwide committed to the health and 189 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: well being of our communities. No matter how you celebrate, 190 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: when you shop at Coals, you're right where you belong. 191 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: So this season, give with all your heart with great 192 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: gifts from Coals or Coals dot com. And we're live 193 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the 194 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: and there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom 195 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: is coming out the front door strong with a double 196 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter 197 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag 198 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom 199 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. 200 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about 201 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. 202 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: Dad zips to bag closed and they're off. Ah, but 203 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still 204 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: on the roof of the car. And there it goes. Oh, 205 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: that's a shame that mug was a am favorite. Don't 206 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like 207 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right 208 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more n h T 209 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: s a dot gov slash the Right Seat. Visits dot 210 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: gov slash the Right Seat, brought to you by NITZA 211 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: and the AD Council. Look to your children's eyes to 212 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook 213 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: world for them. You look and see a tree. They 214 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched 215 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: to the sky. They see treasuring pebbles. They see a 216 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. 217 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest 218 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot 219 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: org brought to you by the United States Forest Service 220 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: and the AD Council. You know when I when I 221 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: read the book, you know, um, you know I heard 222 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: shotgun House. Okay, I grew up in there. I was 223 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: born in the shotgun house. Two very shotgun house. People. 224 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: If you listen to shotgun House, open to the front door, 225 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: shoot the gun out, shotgun out. The go out the 226 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: front back door. Don't hit anything that's a shotgun house. Okay, 227 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: you referenced pig feats. Grew up with big feasts, but man, 228 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: heyg I would touch But big feats were part of 229 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: our lifestyle. And so that's the Southern not from Houston, Texas. 230 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm from the South. It was it was a lifestyle 231 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: that was normal to me. But it was also a 232 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: community lifestyle of people taking care of each other. And 233 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: that was really important. Not only your dad. Even though 234 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: there were some missteps, there were still people there to 235 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: take care of him, you know, to make sure he 236 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: was focused, to shout at him as he became an adult. 237 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: There were people in the community. That's really important in 238 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: this book that no matter what, there's some form of 239 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: family tied to your story, and the people in your 240 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: life talk about that. You know, it's a It's It's 241 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: funny because long before people started talking about it taking 242 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: a village, uh to to rear a child. I had 243 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: a village. You know, it wasn't all that back back 244 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: in the eighties in South Carolina, back in the eighties 245 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: and nineties where I grew up. But I had a village, 246 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: and and yes, there were a number of men who 247 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: played the role of dad alone the way my uncle James, 248 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: my uncle Jake, my uncle Frank, um. But there were 249 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: also a lot of women that that that played the 250 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: part as well. I was disciplined, and I think that's 251 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: the politically correct term I was. I was disciplined by 252 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: more women growing up than men, whether it's my mom 253 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: or one of my aunts and my grandma. I spent 254 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: a lot of time with my two grandmothers growing up, 255 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: and they really shaped me in myriad ways that I 256 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: didn't fully appreciate until I was older, right. Uh. But 257 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: and then after that, I had coaches along the way. 258 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: I always God always blessed me with with with people 259 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: along the road, right Uh. That that gave me a 260 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: little part of something that I was. I was able 261 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: to take and build on. It's difficult for young black 262 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: men especially, it's it's difficult to to learn how to 263 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: carry yourself in this world, um with without examples of it. 264 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: And I had lots of examples, thankfully along the way. 265 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: But the reality is, you know, Sean, a lot of 266 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: kids don't have that. A lot of kids don't they 267 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: just you know, through no fault of their own mind. 268 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: They they don't have a mother or a father, or 269 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: an uncle or an aunt to take their hands on 270 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: this journey of life, and so they end up finding 271 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: role models uh that they should not be held up, 272 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: but that should not be on a paddle still, and 273 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: they begin to emulate them. You know, the thing I 274 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: really like about your book is that sometimes uh, because 275 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: my father was a truck driver, you know, so you 276 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: know when he wasn't driving trucks, you know he was 277 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: he was, he wasn't really connected to me. I could 278 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: I could tell you he was my father. I can 279 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: tell you that my mom was there for me. My 280 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: mom pushed me. My mom always felt that could be 281 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: somebody special in life. When your father showed up for 282 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: your ball game, that that memory. You don't know if 283 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: you got to hit a home running, gott struck out 284 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: over time you went up the bat, but you remember 285 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: that moment. And then when your mom rescued you, when 286 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: you thought, uh, you had in an entered early fatherhood. 287 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: You know, those are two moments that really I bring 288 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: up those two moments prayer because despite of all the 289 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: things we do in our life, there are always memories 290 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: that really some haunt people, some inspired people, your father 291 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: showing up for your game, and your mom basically coming 292 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: to the rescue because she did something that enabled you 293 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: to relax. Talk about those two key moments of parenting. 294 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: Even though your father wasn't there, that was a key 295 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: parenting moment that he provided for you that stays with 296 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: you today. It probably cares into your parenty with your 297 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: with your children today and your mom being there for 298 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: you at a moment of doubt, frustration, fear. But both 299 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: them were there at different times. I mean, you're you're 300 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: you're talking about the partment book where I almost became 301 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: a teenage father. I was almost a statistic at the 302 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: age of fourteen. Uh No, that's I made a bad choice. 303 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: I made a bad choice. And you know what, I 304 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: write about it because I wrote about it because I 305 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: wanted people to understand. Uh, there but for the grace 306 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: of God go I and and and and I think 307 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: a lot of folks can relate to this, this idea 308 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: that you know, there's that night or sometimes that day, 309 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: but usually it's it's that night where you went left, 310 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: but you could have gone right right and and and 311 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: had you made a different decision, it would have altered 312 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: the course of your life in a dramatic way. Um, 313 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: that almost happened to me. I got lucky and and 314 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: and at that in my life, I was, I didn't 315 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: have much of relationship with my father. I was I 316 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: was afraid of my mother, Uh, definitely afraid, so I 317 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: couldn't talk to her about it. And it was a 318 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: situation where, you know, this young lady was convinced she 319 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: was pregnant, and I like, I had to I had 320 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: to do something. This was not one of the situations 321 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: where in action was an option. And uh and I 322 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: write in the book about how I went to my 323 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: my aunt, and it was my aunt that finally convinced 324 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: me that I had no choice but to talk to 325 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: my mother. But my mom has always been long before 326 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: we started calling people fixers, my mom was a fixer, 327 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 1: like it was. It was that that obviously was an 328 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: extreme example, but there were so many other times in 329 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: my life where I thought I was out of option. 330 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I 331 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: prayed to God and put trust in Betty Joe Melvine 332 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: and and Betty Joe Melvine always came through and still 333 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: does now. Mind you, in a different way, my dad, 334 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: you know, rude about that that part in the book 335 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: sell where he showed up at my little league game, 336 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: and the memory steed with me because it was so 337 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: rare to that point my dad. Um. And and again 338 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: now looking back on it, knowing what we know about addiction, 339 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,239 Speaker 1: about it being a disease and not a weakness, I 340 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: understand why he wasn't there. I understand why he had 341 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: walled himself off from our family and society at large. 342 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: But back then I was a kid, you know, I 343 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: was a kid in one of my my my dad 344 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: to to be proud of me and see me, uh 345 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: and certainly watch watch my little league games. And so 346 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: when he showed up that evening, I saw him down 347 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: the third base line there on the on the fence. 348 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: It's a it's a memory that that stayed with me 349 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: because it was so rare. That being said, now, um, 350 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: he's everywhere, like you know, he was up. Two weeks ago, 351 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: my son had a soccer game. My dad was right 352 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: there with me on the sideline and thirty seconds in 353 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: my my boy hadn't scored a goal all season. Thirty 354 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: seconds in ribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot score first 355 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: goal of the game, and and me and my pops 356 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: are hot five and like you just want a green 357 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: jacket in AUGUSTA and ps C sat average handling time. 358 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes taking your brand's customer experience to the next level 359 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: can seem like an uphill battle filled with thorny metrics challenges. 360 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: But it doesn't have to be this way. Thanks to Ubiquity. 361 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: If you have call volume surges, seasonal staffing fluctuations, or 362 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: new service offerings, fill these holes with Ubiquity partner. You 363 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: can count on receive a free customized consultation at ubiquity 364 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: dot com. That's you, b I q U I t 365 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: y dot com. What grows in the forest trees? Sure 366 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: you know what else grows in the forest, Our imagination, 367 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, 368 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, 369 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than 370 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. 371 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: I Discover the Forest dot Org, brought to you by 372 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. What 373 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: grows in the forest trees? Sure you know what else 374 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder? 375 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: And our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect 376 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. 377 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest 378 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I discover the Forest dot Org. 379 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 380 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: the AD Council. You know, um it was. The book 381 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: is um an emotional book. And I would say emotional 382 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: because I told people when I get a book like 383 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: this after slow read it, because sometimes they hit points 384 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: where I go, oh, I'm about to about to go there, 385 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm not. Let me finish this moment. And because I 386 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: remember a moment with my dad, um nateen ain'ty too 387 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: when I owned a comedy club and my dad had 388 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: never ever been to anything that I've been and he 389 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: just showed up at the comedy club and uh, it 390 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: was sold out and looked at the lobberists. What you're doing, 391 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: your dad? He goes, I come to see my son. 392 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: And he looked around. He looked, wow, this you this 393 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: you this you? And I went, uh, yes, sir, yes, 394 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: sir you because I always said certainly my dad and 395 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: uh and he said he said, he said, I'm proud 396 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: of your son, and and and like I said, this 397 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: is because that's what the book did to me as 398 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: a dad. Because when you start talking about incarceration and 399 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: you talked about remember you're talking, you just said earlier, 400 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: right turn, left, turn those turns. I always say that. 401 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: When I was in college, you know, you you played 402 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: a fraternity. I played to make a side five, and 403 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: you always do stupid things. I remember the Big Brothers said, 404 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: we want some plants. Well, we didn't have no money, 405 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: and so I remember just this giant open field where 406 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: they had plants back in the day, and rember Lyon 407 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: Brothers we went and stole these plants. Man. I mean, 408 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: if you look back on the Craig from the freeway, 409 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: you would have seen us running across this field with 410 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: these plants. Okay, So anybody could have went, what are 411 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: those black dudes boys doing running with all these giant plants. 412 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: And I had a little Fiat h X y nine, 413 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: which is a two seater, and the truck was in 414 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: the front, so I had to put the plants in 415 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: the front and were black, and my win seal. So 416 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: along the way I could have stopped and stopped by 417 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,239 Speaker 1: the police and been incarcerated. And my life could have 418 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 1: changed on that right turn left turn that you were 419 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: talking about earlier. You are meeting men who have done 420 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: something far worse than what I've talked about, but they 421 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: have made a mistake. And sometimes because they made a mistake, 422 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: we don't give them a second chance, because we feel 423 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: that they're unworthy of that second chance. And then in 424 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: your book you talk about guess what they are fathers too. 425 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that journey of you doing a story 426 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: I think basically changed your life, and it started with 427 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: Camp Grace. Yeah, it was one of the most impactful 428 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: stories I've ever done. Uh, there's a I don't even 429 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: remember how we found out about this camp, but um, 430 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: I was probably reading some article in an obscure publication 431 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 1: about this um summer camp at a maximum security prison 432 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: in California. Salina's State Valley Prison was the name of 433 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: the facility. And for one week every summer um they 434 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: bring in about a dozen or so kids to basically 435 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: have a camp experience with their dads. I mean, you know, 436 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: arts and crafts, and they play games, and they sing 437 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: songs and they do all the stuff that you do 438 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: at a camp. And these kids are between the ages 439 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: of you know, seven or eight and in fifteen or sixteen, 440 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: and the guys who are part of the program have 441 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: to UM exhibit good behavior for a full year. The 442 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: camp is a it's a privilege. And UM. I went 443 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: out and spend some time talking to these guys and 444 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: it ended up being just an emotional day because these 445 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: these are men. First of all, most of them are 446 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: not going to be getting out of prison. I mean 447 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: they've some of them have have have been convicted of 448 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: doing some pretty heinous things. UM. But the two women 449 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: that started the camp, both of their husbands were incarcerated 450 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: and consequently weren't really a part of the child's lives. 451 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: They would get the occasional visit, you know, on a 452 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: weekend and you've got the glass, and but they weren't 453 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: able to really be a part of the child's lives. 454 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: So they came up the side therefore camp and I 455 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: talked to one of the guys out there, and I 456 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: asked him the question I knew a lot of people 457 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: are going to be asking when they watched and read 458 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: the story, how can someone um accused of some of 459 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: the things these guys were accused of. How in what 460 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: universe do they deserve the right to spend time I'm 461 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: with with it with the child. And without missing a beat, 462 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: he said to me, tears in his eyes. Um, they 463 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: might be right. I may not deserve it, but you 464 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: know what credit my kids do. My kids deserve to 465 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: know their father. They didn't do anything wrong, they didn't 466 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: make any bad choices. Uh. And his larger point, and 467 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: I think this was just a valid If we're serious 468 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: about stopping the prison pipeline that we always talk about, uh, 469 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: then we need to make sure that kids of of 470 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: incarcerated individuals have relationships with them. He spent a fair 471 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: amount of his time talking to his daughter about choices, 472 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: making good choices, not ending up where he ended up. 473 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: It's a fantastic program, and it moved me. It also 474 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: moved me with Sean because my grandmother, and it's the 475 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: first line in the book. Not to give way too much, 476 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: but you know my my grandmother. Uh. Now, when I 477 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: knew her, she was here, she was going to church, 478 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: at coming home from church. She she only loved the Lord, 479 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: but apparently long before I came along. But this just 480 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: just say she's a bootlegger. I want to give it 481 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: no more than that, just say she's a bootleg. I 482 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: don't want to give her the earther part. Okay, she's 483 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger. 484 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: And and and and got a second chance, Yes she did. 485 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: And had she not gotten a second chance, who's to 486 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: say whether I would be here right now, you know. 487 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: But here's the thing I want to point out about 488 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: that now his grandmother was in the same jail that 489 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: Martha Stewart was in. So she got how many chances 490 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: as she's got, Okay, but in the same facility now. 491 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: And so so when I when I when I read 492 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: the book and and and and it's, like I said, 493 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: an emotional journey because it's your story. But it's a 494 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: relatable story because I remember when my younger brother was 495 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: incarcerated in California and uh glass talking and uh and 496 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: I was in tears and and and he told me 497 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: he couldn't cry. He's I reached I I can't cry. 498 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: I can't they can't, he said, I can't. And my 499 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: nickname is Ricky Rickie. I can't cry because they see 500 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: me crying out here. I pay a price when I 501 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: go back inside. And in that book, you know, gen 502 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: when you interview, and he said, look, he said, thank 503 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: god I have a sale by myself because now I 504 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: can't cry. And so I love the fact that you 505 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: were humanizing people because we we see these we see this, 506 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: we see the violent size, and nobody's trying to downplay that. 507 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: But we have made mistakes. There are people on the 508 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: other side of this that have to deal with the 509 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: emotionalities of kids, and like one of them said, look, um, 510 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: it's all right early on when you're playing cards and 511 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: you're playing catch, but when they become teens, the conversation 512 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: becomes different. And that's what fatherhood is all about, which 513 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: leads to your whole life or being a father, being 514 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: connected to your dad and not being the present day father. 515 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, correct. You know what I think 516 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: that I think that you can be sheet by negative examples, um, 517 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: just as much as you can be shaped by positive examples. 518 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: In fact, I think in so many instances, maybe even 519 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: more so so. You know, growing up, I didn't know 520 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: the kind of man that I wanted to be. I 521 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: didn't certainly know the kind of father that I wanted 522 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: to be. But up until a few years ago, I 523 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: knew I didn't want to be anything of anything like 524 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: my dad. Yes, um and and and and that was 525 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: what what motivated me personally and professionally, probably to a 526 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: certain extent now that I'm talking about it, but no, 527 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny because I have to remind my 528 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: kids sometimes and I have a job, and and and 529 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: consequently I I cannot be at their back and call 530 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: uh day and night, because you know, when my dad 531 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: was there when we were younger, it was it was big, 532 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: like it was a wedding or funeral or graduation or 533 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: that that little league game, and I write about it. 534 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: I remember because it was so weird. Dad didn't show 535 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: up with stuff, part because he worked third shift at 536 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: the post office, but in larger part because because of 537 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: the addiction issues that he had. UM. So, as a result, 538 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to the other end of the spectrum. So 539 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: if you know, I'm there for soccer games and my 540 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: daughter had a gymnastics recital last Sunday morning, and you know, 541 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm physically present as often as and as much as 542 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: I can to do you know, pick I do school 543 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: pick up, and I'm trying to do it all because 544 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, my dad didn't do any other Another problem 545 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: that that that you create when you do that, And 546 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: it took me a while to pigure this out. I've 547 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: created expectations. So if if I'm not there to go, 548 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: Daddy's got to travel for work, Well daddy, why can't 549 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: you can take a later flight and they can go tomorrow. 550 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,239 Speaker 1: And I've had to say a few times, you know 551 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: that it's the job that pays for all of this. 552 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: You don't get to go to dance or you don't 553 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: get to go to soccer if that is not hopping 554 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: on playing absolute So that that's the that's the that's 555 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: the unfortunate part. But they're you know, they're starting to understand. 556 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: But it's funny as you become a parent, how you 557 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: at some point to come you become the kind of 558 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: for me at least, the kind of father that I 559 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: used to mock, yes, hate it with My dad would 560 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: talk about, you know, how much something costs. You don't 561 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: have money for us, and and when we were younger, 562 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: we didn't like you know, he wasn't lying, like we 563 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: knew we didn't have a lot of money when we 564 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: had enough with my kids, you know, I've said a 565 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: few times, and we can't afford this, and myself. I 566 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: missed a beto say yes we can, what you can, 567 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: and I'm like, and then you then you find yourself 568 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: trying to come up with a new excuse like, uh, 569 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: well maybe we can't afford it, but that we don't 570 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,959 Speaker 1: need it. You don't need that, right right right? You know. 571 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: So it's it's hard, and I thought we're about to 572 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: wrap up. I want to bring up a very um 573 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: a moment as a parent and I want to share 574 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: with you because you wrote about it when your son 575 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: climbed into bed and you know, and then your kids 576 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: when they sleep. If you if you don't have kids children, 577 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: you got a very young child. When they climb in 578 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: the bed, they forget you in bed. They kids got 579 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: the worst sleepers in the world, especial when they get 580 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: that six to ten years of age were sleep And 581 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: so when you said that in the book, you said 582 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: you you may miss that. I remember I talked to 583 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: my daughter when she was like seventeen. I said, hey, 584 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: what you what you're hopping bed and watch your TV? 585 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: Sit what you're talking about? I said, you know, can 586 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 1: we not watching TV? Can we not watch TV? Together? Men? 587 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: When used to go I don't do that. No, more Dad. No, no, 588 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: we're not doing that. So I would tell you Craig, 589 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: that moment brought brought laughter to me. It brought back 590 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: memories as your book, you know, the amazingly good book 591 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: Pops Learning to Be a Son and the Father Man. Uh, 592 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: it's a great read. And like I said, it slowed 593 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: me when I said the word slowed me because I 594 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: was becoming emotional because, like I said, my father was 595 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: a beer drinker. My father worked hard as a truck driver. 596 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: My father, like I said, was he in my life? 597 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, But did he shape me to be 598 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: the man I am today? Yes he did, because he 599 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: had a role in it and that that role has 600 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: made me to be the man I am. I'd like 601 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: to believe I'm a good parent to my daughter, a 602 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: good husband to my wife. And uh, those are the 603 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: things that that the stories that you tell out of 604 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: this book, from the incarcerated to individuals who raised you 605 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: as a family, the community, and whether teachers who shaped 606 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: you as third grade, teachers who shaped you as as 607 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: you go through life and you went to school and 608 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: you didn't wanna didn't want to shame your uncle when 609 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: you didn't pledge cap outside but it was all good man. 610 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: I love your book, Craig. I want to appreciate you 611 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,479 Speaker 1: for putting it out there. Man, thank you, Thank you 612 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: for your time. I've enjoyed this conversation. You're very good 613 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: at what you do. Thank you for having Okay, we 614 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: talked soon, man, I'm gonna put this on. I got look, 615 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: I got a nice little social media I'm gonna put 616 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: that out there and my my news letter. We're gonna 617 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: get that out there for you. Okay, Greig, thank you, sir. 618 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: All right by by. If you want to see you 619 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: here in my interviews and Money Making Conversation, please go 620 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: to Money Making Conversation dot com. I'm Sean McDonald. I 621 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: am your host. In this season of giving, Coals has 622 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: gifts for all your loved ones. 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