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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is there are No Girls on the Internet. Christmas has

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Speaker 1: come early for me because Joyce Carol Oates. Yes that

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oa is beefing with Elon Musk on Twitter. Mike,

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Speaker 1: I have a real thing with Joyce Carol Oates. Did

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Speaker 1: you know this about me?

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Speaker 2: I didn't actually merry Christmas? And what's up with your

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Speaker 2: saying with Joyce Carol Oates? How do you know her?

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Speaker 2: Why do you like her?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Mary, Happy Joyce Carol Oates beefing with Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: on Twitter to all that celebrate. So yeah, I took

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Speaker 1: a survey of Joyce Carol Oates's fiction when I was

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Speaker 1: in grad school. I also, independently from that, have followed

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Speaker 1: her pretty closely on social media for some time. So

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Speaker 1: her beefing with Elon Musk, it feels like this is

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Speaker 1: truly my time to shine. So let's back up a

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Speaker 1: little bit because we did a whole episode about another

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite Elon Musk beefs, Elon Musk's beef

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Speaker 1: with rapper Azalea Banks. That was probably my favorite celebrity

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Speaker 1: feud up until this point, other than perhaps the rapper

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Speaker 1: Iced Tea and Amy Mann, the folk singer. They had

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a Twitter beef that I love,

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Speaker 1: but I think the Elon Musk of it all kind

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Speaker 1: of illustrates what happens when somebody like Elon Musk comes

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Speaker 1: up against somebody that he is just inarguably outmatched by.

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Speaker 1: The Azalea Banks thing was a perfect example of what

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Speaker 1: I mean. Elon Musk is an unreliable narrator. Azalea Banks

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Speaker 1: is somebody who will literally say anything about anyone or anything.

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk thinks he's funny, loves to make it seem

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Speaker 1: like everybody thinks he's so funny. Haha. Azalia Banks, even

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Speaker 1: though she is who she is, she is actually funny

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Speaker 1: and can actually destroy somebody with words and can come

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Speaker 1: up with an insight like nobody's business, like she really is.

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Speaker 1: She's she's a lyricist at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: So you know, Mike, you know me. You know that

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Speaker 1: I am not somebody who is prone to taking a

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Speaker 1: victory lap when I say something that's proven to be

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent correct.

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Speaker 2: Whatever you say, Boss, we're recording.

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Speaker 1: I can see your face as we're recording, and when

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Speaker 1: I was saying that, I got the sense that maybe

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Speaker 1: you didn't totally agree. But let's just say that's the

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Speaker 1: case for now.

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Speaker 2: Sure we can say that for the case of argument.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's uh, I guess yeah, we can say that.

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Speaker 2: You don't often like to take a victory let but

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Speaker 2: it has happened.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'll take it every now and then. And I'm

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Speaker 1: taking one right now because over a year ago, we

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Speaker 1: were doing an episode about a good read scandal in

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Speaker 1: the literary world, and in that episode, I said, this,

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol o two, I have to say, is kind

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Speaker 1: of my like forever problematic shave. She's like the Avail

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Speaker 1: Banks of the book industry. Like nine times out of

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Speaker 1: ten she's super wrong, but when she is right, she

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Speaker 1: is so right. That's how I would describe her. I

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Speaker 1: cannot quit Joyce Carol Oates. She is my forever problematic fab.

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Speaker 1: I simply cannot believe how prescient that turned out to be.

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Speaker 1: Now that Joyce Carol Oates is also beefing with Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk on Twitter, just like Azalia Banks was.

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Speaker 2: It is a little uncanny. I mean, did you call

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Speaker 2: it or did you conjure this? Did you manifest this beef?

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Speaker 1: I willed this beef into existence. So as I said

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Speaker 1: that in that quote, I am like an og follower

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Speaker 1: of Joyce Carol Oates. Everybody's talking about Joyce Carol Oats

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Speaker 1: on social media now, but it's like that Bane quote,

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Speaker 1: you merely adopted Joyce Carol Oates's Twitter presence. I was

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Speaker 1: born in it, molded by it. Right. I have been

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Speaker 1: following this woman on Twitter for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: People might not realize how prolific of a Twitter history

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oates actually has. She's been saying wild shit

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Speaker 1: on Twitter four years. Again, not unlike Azalea Banks, Joyce

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Speaker 1: Carol Oates is actually one of my favorite people to

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Speaker 1: follow on Twitter. Even though yes, she is very problematic.

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Speaker 1: I will get to that in a moment. She's also

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Speaker 1: kind of irreverent personality on Twitter.

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Speaker 2: So I have to admit that I am not familiar

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Speaker 2: with her body of work on Twitter. How important is

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Speaker 2: it for me to understand what she's like on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: what she talks about there, to really appreciate this thing

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Speaker 2: that she's got going on with Elon It.

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Speaker 1: Is so important. It is key to understanding what's going

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Speaker 1: on here. So let's talk a bit about how Joyce

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Speaker 1: Carol Oates show has showed up on Twitter. She joined

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Speaker 1: Twitter back in twenty twelve at the urging of her

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Speaker 1: book publisher, and has been a prolific tweeter since then.

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Speaker 1: Some things that folks might have missed if they were

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Speaker 1: not following her as closely on Twitter as I was.

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Speaker 1: She went super viral in twenty twenty for posting a

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Speaker 1: picture of her foot covered in poison ivy that went viral.

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Speaker 1: She also hilariously replied to a picture of the director

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg posing next to a dead dinosaur from the

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Speaker 1: film Jurassic Park. She tweeted that picture and wrote so

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Speaker 1: barbaric that this should still be allowed, no conservation laws

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Speaker 1: and effect wherever this is. I loved this. There was

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Speaker 1: a whole flurry of questions about whether or not she

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Speaker 1: was kidding. Joanna Rothkopp over at Salon broke it down,

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Speaker 1: saying there are only three possibilities. One Oates was making

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Speaker 1: a joke five percent chance. Two Oates didn't click on

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Speaker 1: the photo and thought it was a picture of a

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Speaker 1: slaughtered elephant. Eighty percent chance or three. Oates thinks that

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Speaker 1: tricera top was murdered fifteen percent chance.

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Speaker 2: That is delightful.

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Speaker 1: I honestly hope it's the last one. I hope that.

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Speaker 1: Oates was like, we have to save our triceratopsis.

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Speaker 2: I'm just glad that this somebody is finally speaking up

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Speaker 2: for the triceratopsins. There are so few of them left.

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Speaker 2: We need to stop this senseless triceratops murder.

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Speaker 1: You and Joyce Carol Oates are on the same page

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Speaker 1: about that one. She also made headlines pretty recently for

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Speaker 1: tweeting about how she thinks that Trump faked getting shot

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Speaker 1: in Butler, Pennsylvania. So she's really like got her finger

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Speaker 1: on the pull sometimes. Interestingly enough, when asked about it

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Speaker 1: in an interview, she said that showing up on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't even do it to get more readers. When

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Speaker 1: asked about whether she was trying to reach new audiences

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Speaker 1: with potential readers on social media, she bluntly said, I

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Speaker 1: don't think of this at all.

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Speaker 2: Wow, So like what is she what she doing it for?

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Speaker 1: Then she's doing it for the love of the game, baby,

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Speaker 1: Like you gotta respect that. So the main comparison that

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Speaker 1: I see between Azalea Banks and Joyce Carol Oates is

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Speaker 1: that they are both women whose work and artistry I

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Speaker 1: have enjoyed. But there are also people who say things

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Speaker 1: that I deeply disagree with the majority of the time. However,

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Speaker 1: they are the kind of people who when they're right,

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Speaker 1: they're right like a broken clock. When they stumble upon

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Speaker 1: a truth, they really hit that truth and they do

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Speaker 1: not miss. And I had no idea how prescient that

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Speaker 1: comparison would become, because now a year after I made it,

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oates is following in Azalea basis footsteps in

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Speaker 1: this beef with Elon Musk, and you know what, I

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Speaker 1: am here for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know a lot of people have gotten

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Speaker 2: into Twitter spats with Elon Musk lately, or ex spats

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Speaker 2: or whatever we want to call them. What is it

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Speaker 2: about Joyce Carol Oates that like really pulls you in,

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Speaker 2: even though in your words you disagree with what she

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Speaker 2: says the majority of the time.

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Speaker 1: Oh, she is my problematic save as I said, Uh,

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Speaker 1: First of all, Joyce Carol Oates, like Azelia Banks, can

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Speaker 1: write her ass off. I read her short story which

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Speaker 1: I would say. It's probably one of her more famous works,

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Speaker 1: Where Are You Going? Where Have You Been? When I

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Speaker 1: was young and it really made an impression on me.

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Speaker 1: It's this kind of slow burned gothic horror. It's I

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Speaker 1: recommend it for anybody who likes kind of creepy short stories.

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Speaker 1: And so as we'll get to in a moment. Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk keeps sort of insulting Joyce Carol Oates. But Joyce

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Speaker 1: Carol Oates is like the Michael Jordan of literature. Like

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Speaker 1: you cannot insult her, you cannot like like the numbers

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Speaker 1: are there, the stats are there. She wrote her first

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Speaker 1: book in nineteen sixty three, when she was twenty six,

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Speaker 1: and since then she's written almost sixty novels. She does novels, novella's, plays,

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Speaker 1: you name it. She's also kind of known for the

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Speaker 1: sheer amount of writing that she does. She talks about

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Speaker 1: this a lot. How from eight am to one pm

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Speaker 1: every day she writes in she hand writes in cursive

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Speaker 1: every day, then again for two or three hours in

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Speaker 1: the evening. Like I can't express to you how much

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Speaker 1: Homegirl has a storied literary career. I'll put it to

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Speaker 1: you like this From nineteen ninety two to twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oates published four books, and all four of

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Speaker 1: them were nominated for the Pulitzer. Like, this is a

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Speaker 1: woman who is about that written word.

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Speaker 2: It's funny she It kind of sounds similar to Stephen King,

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Speaker 2: like another very prolific writer who is partly known for

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Speaker 2: just the sheer volume of stuff that he writes, and

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Speaker 2: also is used to be on Twitter a lot. But

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Speaker 2: I don't think he ever won a Pulitzer.

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Speaker 1: I love Stephen King as well. Can I tell you

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Speaker 1: a non sequard or fun fact about Stephen King that

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Speaker 1: blows my mind? Sure?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to hear it.

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Speaker 1: Stephen King was once so obsessed with Lou Bega's Mambo

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Speaker 1: Number five that his wife threatened to divorce him over it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm like running ba as a timeline in my mind.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering if that was before or after he got sober?

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Speaker 1: Oh what do you think?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, mom will number five it's still out there in culture,

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Speaker 2: tearing couples apart. Okay, so, but she's not Stephen King.

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Speaker 2: We're back to Joyce Carol Oates. She's written a ton,

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Speaker 2: sounds like she is very celebrated as a writer, So

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Speaker 2: what makes her problematic.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say that she doesn't always have great opinions

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Speaker 1: about everything, especially when it comes to topics like race.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to mention this because I see a

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Speaker 1: lot of people sort of celebrating her. And to be clear,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely think that she should be celebrated for her

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Speaker 1: writing in the way that her command over the written word.

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Speaker 1: But I do think it's important to mention this because

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Speaker 1: she is a human and she's an almost ninety year

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Speaker 1: old woman, so's it should be kind of unsurprising that

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Speaker 1: not every take is a banger. Much like Azalia Banks,

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Speaker 1: you know, she's someone who is often wrong. She's often

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Speaker 1: tweeting things that are just flat out incorrect and not accurate,

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Speaker 1: but again broken clock. When she's right, she's right. In

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Speaker 1: that episode that I played a little bit from where

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Speaker 1: we first mentioned her, we were talking about the racial

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Speaker 1: climate in the literary world and this false attitude that

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Speaker 1: people of color are the sort of golden child of

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Speaker 1: publishing right now. In that episode, we talked about how

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Speaker 1: the thriller novelist James Patterson said that basically white men

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Speaker 1: cannot get writing jobs right now and Joyce Carol Oates

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Speaker 1: actually backed him up. She said, a friend who was

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Speaker 1: a literary agent told me that he cannot even get

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Speaker 1: editors to read first novels by young, white male writer,

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Speaker 1: no matter how good. They are, just not interested. This

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Speaker 1: is heartbreaking for writers who may in fact be brilliant

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Speaker 1: and critical of their own quote privilege. In an episode,

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Speaker 1: we talked about how just the facts and the stats

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Speaker 1: don't back up what she's saying. Publishing is still overwhelmingly

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Speaker 1: white and male. But I also wanted to include that because, like,

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Speaker 1: isn't that just the way it goes? Sometimes? Like Joyce

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Speaker 1: Carol Oates gets it so right when she is calling

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Speaker 1: out narcissistic men like Elon Musk or Donald Trump, who

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Speaker 1: she calls out a lot on Twitter. But I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: count on her for nuanced, thoughtful analysis of things like

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Speaker 1: race all the time, right, So I want to acknowledge that.

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Speaker 1: But also, the woman has a way with words, like

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Speaker 1: when she gets it right, she gets it so right.

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Speaker 2: So this whole thing with Elon Musk, let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: How did that get started?

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Speaker 1: Well, it starts with Joyce Carol Oates. Joyce Carol Oates

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Speaker 1: in on X On November ninth, she tweeted quote, so

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Speaker 1: curious that such a wealthy man never pos anything that

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Speaker 1: indicates that he enjoys or is even aware of what

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Speaker 1: virtually everyone appreciates scenes from nature, pet dog or cat,

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Speaker 1: praise for a movie, music, a book, parentheses, But doubt

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Speaker 1: he reads pride and of friends or relatives, accomplishment condolences

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Speaker 1: for someone who has died, pleasure in sports, acclaim for

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Speaker 1: a favorite team, references to history. In fact, he seems

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Speaker 1: totally uneducated, uncultured. The poorest persons on Twitter may have

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Speaker 1: access to more beauty and meaning in life than the

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Speaker 1: most wealthy person in the world. Now, come on, that

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Speaker 1: is some cold spot on shit to say about somebody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's really wielding punctuation in their like fucking

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Speaker 2: daggers and weapons. Yes, she's got a parenthetical, she's got

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Speaker 2: some stuffed quotes, she's got just devastating list item after

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Speaker 2: list items separated by semi colon.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it's like a goddamn ee commings poem as but

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Speaker 1: it also an insult. And I also think why it

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Speaker 1: works is because it's it leads with curiosity and also pity.

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Speaker 1: It's not a mean tweet. It's a true tweet. And

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Speaker 1: that's even worse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like a little mean like it's

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Speaker 2: it is curious, what is curious about this shell of

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Speaker 2: a person who is like so othered and lessered. But

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Speaker 2: it is phrased as as curiosity. It is a devastating

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Speaker 2: couple of words.

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Speaker 1: This is basically Kenja Klamar saying Drake is not like us.

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Speaker 1: Like we take pleasure and sports, film, books, family, friends, nature,

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Speaker 1: even children understand and talk about and partake in these

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Speaker 1: simple pleasures that seemingly just accompany what it means to

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Speaker 1: be a full human. We talk about things that fill

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Speaker 1: us up. Elon Musk does seem like weirdly devoid of

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Speaker 1: these things. Even Donald Trump talks about how much he

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Speaker 1: likes Pavaratti.

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Speaker 2: He loves Pavarotti.

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Speaker 1: He loves Pavarotti. He really loves Pavarotti.

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Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, it's like she's accusing Musk of being

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Speaker 2: something less than human, like a singular person who has

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Speaker 2: failed to appreciate the things that make all of the

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Speaker 2: rest of us human.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and imagine being that kind of person against a

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Speaker 1: reality where you're also the world's wealthiest person. You have

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Speaker 1: access to every pleasure in the world at your fingertips,

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Speaker 1: and you're still so miserable. And I think that she's

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. You know, if what Musk spends his time

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Speaker 1: talking about and tweeting and amplifying on social media is

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Speaker 1: any indication, Joyce carolos is right. He is a supremely

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Speaker 1: joyless person because when you go to social media feeds,

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Speaker 1: it's all grievances and point scoring and dick swinging. He

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Speaker 1: treats his own daughter, Vivi, and who, by the way,

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oates said, seems like a very nice girl,

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Speaker 1: very cruelly. His ex partners have all been very vocal

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Speaker 1: about his cruelness towards them. He does not seem like

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Speaker 1: a happy, full person. And I think that is the

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Speaker 1: thing that eviscerates Trump here. I always but if you

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Speaker 1: hear me say Trump, because in my mind they're the

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Speaker 1: same guy.

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Speaker 2: No, they are a little bit different. Though. Trump likes Pavaratti.

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Speaker 1: Trump likes Pavaratti. Uh, let's see, I don't think Trump reads. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, Trump likes Pavaratti.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 1: You know, having done a fair bit of reading about Musk.

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Speaker 1: I don't even think that Elon Musk would disagree that

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Speaker 1: he is a supremely lonely person. He has said that explicitly.

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Speaker 1: He is described in interviews and to biographers the feelings

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Speaker 1: that he used to have as a child, kind of

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Speaker 1: staying up all night alone, and how even as an

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Speaker 1: adult now he hates the feeling of being in battalone.

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Speaker 1: He hates not having somebody to share a bed with

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Speaker 1: as an adult. Case in point, what do you think

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Speaker 1: that Elon Musk was doing the day before Joyce Carol

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Speaker 1: Oates tweeted all of this?

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Speaker 2: Any guesses maybe he was penning an apology to his

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Speaker 2: daughter and servying the landscape of philanthropies or charities that

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Speaker 2: could really use some support in these difficult economic times,

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Speaker 2: so that he could boost his fellow man and make

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Speaker 2: amends with those that he has harmed. Maybe that's what

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Speaker 2: he was doing.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. At four point thirty in the morning Musk time,

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk was up using groc to generate an AI

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Speaker 1: video of a beautiful woman making eye contact with him

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Speaker 1: and saying, oh, I will always love you. That's right.

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Speaker 1: He was using AI to make a lady say that

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Speaker 1: she will always love Elon like, I'm sorry, this is

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Speaker 1: some grim shit, even for Elon Musk. I actually debated

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Speaker 1: whether or not to put this in the episode because

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is just very sad, and I

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Speaker 1: almost feel sad bringing it up that when the day

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Speaker 1: before he was called out for being this miserable, joyless fuck.

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Speaker 1: He was up at four point thirty in the morning

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Speaker 1: using AI to imagine a woman saying I love you

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Speaker 1: because he doesn't have it in real life. That is

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that is very grim.

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Speaker 2: It is very grim. But like, we only know that

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Speaker 2: he did that because he tweeted it. He wanted the

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Speaker 2: world to know that this simulated woman loves him.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, he doesn't see how sad and pathetic

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Speaker 1: that makes him look, which is a whole other set

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Speaker 1: of questions I have about how he shows up. But also,

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Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oates just really has his number as to

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Speaker 1: why he is the way that he is, and so

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Speaker 1: her post about him just like struck through the noise

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Speaker 1: and hit a nerve and went viral very quickly. As

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Speaker 1: of me writing this, it had five million views. So

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Speaker 1: I note, Joyce Carol Oates is verified with the blue

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Speaker 1: check mark. So I wonder if she's gonna get a

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Speaker 1: payout from X for generating engagement on the platform.

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Speaker 2: What do you think, Oh, that's a good question. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't count on it. I wouldn't count on it.

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Speaker 2: We know he doesn't like to pay in general. I

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Speaker 2: don't think she's going to get a check for this one.

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Speaker 2: But you know, maybe he liked it. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how did he respond on X after she posted this.

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Speaker 1: Not well, but it was in that classic Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: way where it's you know that meme. Don't print in

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Speaker 1: the newspaper that I got mad because I'm not mad.

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Speaker 1: I've not met. He called her tweet quote demonstrably false,

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Speaker 1: saying everything she's des inn or post about me can

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Speaker 1: be shown to be demonstrably false with a simple search.

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Speaker 1: He calls her lazy and a liar and an abuser

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Speaker 1: of Semi Collins, and goes on to say Oates is

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Speaker 1: a liar who delights in being mean, not a good human,

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Speaker 1: And then he has eating a bag of sawdust would

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Speaker 1: be vastly more enjoyable than reading the laboriously pretentious drivel

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Speaker 1: of Oats. I will say this. The Pulitzer Prize people

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Speaker 1: disagree on that one, so I don't know. I might

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Speaker 1: let them be the judge. Also, him saying that Joyce

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Speaker 1: Carol Oates's work is pretentious is a tell to me

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Speaker 1: that he has not read any of Joyce Carol Oates's work.

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Speaker 1: Because you could say a lot of things about Joyce

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Speaker 1: Carol Oates's writing style, no one would ever call it pretentious.

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Speaker 1: Her writing stylist would have meant to be very accessible

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Speaker 1: and tends to be pretty realistic for the most part. Like,

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Speaker 1: if you were trying to criticize Joyce Carol Oates's writing style,

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Speaker 1: you might say, if anything, you might say it's too mundane.

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Speaker 1: You would not say it's too pretentious. Anybody who says

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Speaker 1: that has not meant to any time reading Joyce Carol Oas.

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Speaker 1: You can not conduct me he's actually read any one

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Speaker 1: of her novels or short stories.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean that's not shocking. He doesn't seem like

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Speaker 2: a big reader in general. He's probably not reading a

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Speaker 2: woman author for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So where I come from, we have that phrase

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Speaker 1: A hit dog will holler you.

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Speaker 2: Do you know that phrase, Mike, I've heard it. I

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Speaker 2: don't approve of animal violence, but like I've heard it.

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Speaker 1: Unless it's a Trice seratops.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kill them all like God stored out those dinos.

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Speaker 1: So Joyce Carol Oates basically said, a girl a hit

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Speaker 1: dog will holler. She's like, you know, it's funny. I

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Speaker 1: never said explicitly that I was talking about Elon Musk.

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Speaker 1: So she did quote tweet a tweet that was like

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Speaker 1: referencing him, But she is read that she never spelled

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Speaker 1: out that she was talking about Elon Musk. So funny

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Speaker 1: that he would have such a big reaction, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: hit dogs do holler. Joyce Carol Oates just really seems

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Speaker 1: to have Elon Musk's number. Here's what she said in

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Speaker 1: speculating about the wealthiest man in the world. I did

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Speaker 1: not actually stake any name. I was thinking of the emblematic,

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Speaker 1: the type of being that great wealth can make possible.

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Speaker 1: But such wealth must seem unreal or ironic. It is

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Speaker 1: impressive that Elon Musk allows critical commentary of himself on

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Speaker 1: X that is not usually a magnanimy of spirit commiserate

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Speaker 1: with the extreme type of non empathetic person. So basically

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Speaker 1: she's saying, well, I never said Elon Musk by name,

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Speaker 1: but it's I guess it's nice that he allows criticism

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Speaker 1: of himself on his platform, I should say. After she

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Speaker 1: pointed this out, lots of people jumped in to say, no,

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk actually does punish people who are critical of

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Speaker 1: him on X. There are critical complaints that he shadow

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Speaker 1: bands people who post things that are critical of him.

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Speaker 1: In a piece in The New York Times called they

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Speaker 1: criticized Musk on X, then their reach collapsed. Musk told

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Speaker 1: The New York Times that he might have kicked off

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Speaker 1: some critical users out of x's premium program, which boost

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Speaker 1: the visibility of paying subscribers. Doing so what effectively curtailed

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Speaker 1: their reach and prevent them from making any money on X.

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Speaker 1: We also already know that he has absolutely no problem

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Speaker 1: using X to publicly attack just regular people who are

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Speaker 1: critical of him on the platform. And I mean, this

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Speaker 1: just absolutely tracks what you know about Elon Musk. He

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Speaker 1: punishes people who are critical of him. He has no

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Speaker 1: problem amplifying the names of real just regular people who

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Speaker 1: talk about him, and those people get dog piled and

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Speaker 1: attacked and threatened. That is definitely his IMO. When this

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Speaker 1: was pointed out, Joyce Carol Oates said, now some observers

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Speaker 1: are commenting that X rated Twitter is actually censored to

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Speaker 1: a degree. My perspective is obviously limited for years half

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Speaker 1: hoping that my account would just vanish, and the time

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Speaker 1: spent drifting about the shoals of Twitter like frothy flotsam

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Speaker 1: might be freed for better use. Even that is poetic.

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Speaker 2: But the woman can write, yes, that's some great pros. Absolutely. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: before this episode, you and I were talking a little

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Speaker 2: bit about how I was surprised that this was even

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Speaker 2: able to take off on Twitter because or excuse me,

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Speaker 2: on X because of his history of censoring his critics.

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Speaker 2: But you pointed out that her initial tweet did not

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Speaker 2: use his name, and I really have to wonder if

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Speaker 2: that was part of what allowed it to gain traction before,

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Speaker 2: and is you know some kind of like censorious intervention

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Speaker 2: could be put into effect.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely believe that had she used Elon Musk's name explicitly,

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Speaker 1: we would not even be making this episode. I believe that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally do too, But she didn't, either through

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Speaker 2: luck or design. And so here she is just lobbing

431
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: high level pros at him as like devastating insults. So

432
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: what else is she saying? About him.

433
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: So there was this banger about how Musk has lived

434
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of different places South Africa, Canada, and now

435
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: the United States. Wherever he goes he wants to leave.

436
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: That's because when he gets there, he has his own

437
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: self along and whatever club he's invited to join has

438
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: been devalued by the invitation. Eh.

439
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: Eh, demastating, devastating.

440
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: I mean that one is is like on like a

441
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: philosophical level, like a like he does all this traveling

442
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: because he's trying to escape himself and he cannot. So

443
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: everywhere he goes he has he has brought himself there

444
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,479
Speaker 1: and so that experience is automatically devalued because he is

445
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: there because he is him.

446
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: Oh, she's really casting his life as like a Greek tragedy.

447
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: But it is like, like, she's not wrong in pointing

448
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: this out that if money is commiserate with happiness, he

449
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: should be happy, he should be full, he should be nourished.

450
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 1: How does he spend his time up at four point

451
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning using AI to invent women to

452
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: say I love you? Right? Like, she's not wrong. This

453
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: is something out of a Greek tragedy which elon Musk

454
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,479
Speaker 1: wouldn't even fucking know because he's not gonna read it.

455
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And other than the companies that he owns,

456
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: I'm kind of struggling to think of any sort of

457
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: group or association or community that he is part of.

458
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 2: I'm really coming up with nothing now.

459
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: So along those lines, she makes another really great point

460
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: about Elon Musk after her initial tweet. Truly, it was

461
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: out of curiosity why a person with unlimited resources exhibit

462
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: so little appreciation or even awareness of the things that

463
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: most people value as giving meeting to life. Just minimally

464
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: well to do people donate to charities, local museums and

465
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: libraries and alike. They support the commonwealth, and unlike the

466
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: very wealthy, these people pay high income taxes, because he

467
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: won't pay a lot of taxes. Now, this is something

468
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: that I have often wondered about too. People truly need

469
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: to understand how wealthy Elon Musk is. When folks say

470
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: things like, oh, there's no ethical billionaires, the reason why

471
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: they say that is because if you have a billion dollars,

472
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: you could meaningfully use your money to solve so many

473
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: of the world's most pressing and threatening issues that we

474
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: face as a as a people without ever really feeling

475
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: any kind of meaningful personal financial loss. So the fact

476
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: that that you do have a billion dollars and you're

477
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: not doing that, it kind of means you're an asshole.

478
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: And Elon Musk has five hundred billion dollars. Compare that

479
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: to somebody like Mackenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos's ex wife, who

480
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: has been steady given away nineteen billion of her thirty

481
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: five billion dollar net worth to HBCUs, shout out to

482
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: my mom's alma mater, Virginia State University, who she gave

483
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: money to recently, and cultural and advocacy organizations like the

484
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: African American Cultural Heritage Action Fund, And according to Fortune,

485
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: she still has barely made a dent in her overall

486
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: network because of her Amazon shares. So for as much

487
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: money as she's given away, and she's given away nineteen

488
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: billion dollars of it already, it's basically a drop in

489
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: the bucket because she has so much money left. If

490
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: you're going to a billionaire, that's how you billionaire. You

491
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: foster culture, education and do what you can to use

492
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: some of that massive, massive, probably unethical wealth to make

493
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: the world betters for others, because you have already made

494
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: it yourself. You have won it, capitalism, You're done. Sledge

495
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: John's on Twitter put it really well. You can tell

496
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: Elon doesn't read or have any sense of his place

497
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: in history. If he did, he'd be competing with Carnegie, Rockefeller,

498
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: and Vanderbilt to slap his name on music halls, universities,

499
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: and libraries, among other public goods. But he doesn't.

500
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: It's a good point. Yeah, he doesn't do that. And

501
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: those guys like Carnegie Rockefeller, these are not heroes of

502
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: the working class.

503
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Rockefeller was commissioning the muralist Diego Rivera

504
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: to paint a mural and Rockefeller Center. Now he did

505
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: end up canceling this mural because it included a portrait

506
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: of Lenin, so it didn't you know, He's still like

507
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: Rockefeller got a Rockefeller. But they he was using money

508
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: to contribute to the cultural conversation, like even the Sacklers,

509
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: you know, the people who gave us the opioid epidemic

510
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: to enrich themselves. These people are ghoules who should be

511
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: in prison, even they are propping up the art world

512
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: in the United States.

513
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything Elon does is just to enhance his own glory,

514
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: I mean exit at this point is just like a

515
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: pr hype machine for him personally, grockism machine to repeat

516
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: his worldview, where they've censored the output and readjusted it.

517
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: It's training to make sure that it is more right

518
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: wing and also producing the sorts of women that Elon

519
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: likes to see tell him that they love him. It's

520
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: not really these things are not benefiting society at large.

521
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: They're benefiting him as a person who owns them.

522
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: It's absolutely true. Where a lot of wealthy people, even horrible, despicable,

523
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: ghoulish wealthy people, still donate to cultural preservation. Elon Musk

524
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: his charitable spending mostly just goes back to you guess

525
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: did himself. When I was thinking about this episode, I

526
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: thought to myself, maybe it's possible that Elon Musk is

527
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: funding a lot of charitable causes and we just don't

528
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: hear much about them, right, Maybe he's doing this in secret,

529
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: doesn't want the acclaim. So I looked into it, and

530
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: it turns out that Elon Musk does donate via the

531
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: Musk Foundation, but per The New York Times, much of

532
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: the foundation's donations have gone to organizations linked back to Musk.

533
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: Himself or his businesses, and that the foundation has for

534
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: several years fallen short of the minimum required to give

535
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: away annually, potentially incurring tax penalties. So yeah, sorry, Joyce,

536
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: Carol Oates is right again. And I don't know, it's

537
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: just so obvious that Elon Musk clearly wants to be

538
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: loved by people. He wants people to think that he

539
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: is cool and funny and like in the culture, with

540
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: the culture. And I would think, you know, he probably

541
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: is somebody who could buy his way into being like

542
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: if he gave his money away to good causes, but

543
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 1: he doesn't. We were talking about this off Mike, that

544
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, that story about how he tried to get

545
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: into that very exclusive, very famous nightclub in Berlin, Bernheim.

546
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: I always have to add this. I bring it up

547
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: just to have the ability to say that when we

548
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: were in Berlin, Mike, we didn't have any trouble getting

549
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: into Bernheim.

550
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: No, we got right in. We waited in line. That

551
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: same bouncer who allegedly told Elon to take a hike

552
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: just let us right in, no problem.

553
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: You know, my claim to fame is that everybody told us, oh,

554
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: you have to wear all black to get in there.

555
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: If you're not wearing all black, they won't let you in.

556
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: And I got in wearing a head to toe Crimson

557
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: and just sales right in. That is my favorite claim

558
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: to fame. I also love how Elon Musk spun not

559
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: getting in. He says, Oh, well, the reason why I

560
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: didn't get in is because I looked in and they

561
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: had a sign inside that said and I didn't like that.

562
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: And I told the bouncer that I hated that, and

563
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: we had a disagreement, and that's why I didn't even

564
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: want to go in. Yeah, right, buddy, Yeah, you stood

565
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: in line for an hour at a nightclub that you

566
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to get into because when you got to

567
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,239
Speaker 1: the front of the line, you saw that they had

568
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: a sign hanging inside that said peace. Sure. And I

569
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: feel like if he truly wanted to become the kind

570
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: of people that welcome him in at their nightclub, he could.

571
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: He could just do good things that people like. He

572
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 1: has the money, he has the resources to do so

573
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 1: many good things, and honestly, people like me, his biggest

574
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: critics would probably sort of begrudgingly like him if he

575
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: was actually using money to do good things for people

576
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: and culture. And not just enrich himself. But he doesn't. Instead,

577
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: it's like he does the opposite. For instance, in twenty twenty,

578
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: the UN told Elon must if they needed six billion

579
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: dollars to help forty two million people that they said

580
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: were literally going to die if they did not get help.

581
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: Elon said that he would give a UN World Food

582
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: Program the money if they could quote describe on this

583
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: Twitter thread exactly how the six billion would solve world hunger.

584
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: I will sell Tesla stock right now and do it.

585
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: He followed it with the condition it must be open

586
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: source accounting, so the public sees precisely how the money

587
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: is spent, and the UN World Food Program did exactly that.

588
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: Yahoo Finance reports that on November fifteenth, twenty twenty one,

589
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: the UN's World Food Program did that. They published a

590
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: spending plan showing how the six point six billion dollars

591
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: would be used to provide food assistance to forty two

592
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: million people in forty three countries. The plan included three

593
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: point five billion for food procurement and deliverate, two billion

594
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: for cash and food voucher, seven hundred million to develop

595
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: country specific programs, and four hundred million dollars for Administration,

596
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: Oversight and Logistics. The head of the World Food Program

597
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: tweeted the link directly to Musk, adding you asked for

598
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: a clear plan and open books here it is now.

599
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: Despite this clear detailed plan that they released, Musk never

600
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: even reply or engaged further. It is worth noting that,

601
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: according to this piece, the response did not occur in

602
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: the same Twitter thread, which was a specific condition that

603
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: Musk outlined in his original challenge. So maybe he kind

604
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: of got off on a technicality.

605
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: I guess that's such bs And it's like not surprising

606
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: that he would just ghost them on that, because if

607
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: you remember his fight with Zuckerberg that was supposed to happen,

608
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: where he just like talked about it a lot, but

609
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: then eventually just like it was clear that nothing was

610
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: going to happen. You know, he has a long history

611
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: of saying things and then not following through on them.

612
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: But this particular thing, not only did he not follow

613
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: rough and giving them the money, he wasted a tremendous

614
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: amount of staff time of people who are like working

615
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: hard to try to address world hunger with the limited

616
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: resources that they already have, which makes it particularly gross

617
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: and offensive. So yeah, maybe he got them on a technicality,

618
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: but like who cares about the technicality? You know, It's

619
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 2: like it's all just a game to him. He could

620
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: have just said no, Yeah, you could have just said no,

621
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: or he could have not said anything, or he could

622
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: have pushed back, or he could have engaged with the

623
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: Organs with the UN World Food Program offline and works

624
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: something out where he gave him a far lesser amount

625
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: but still did something good. And then he just like

626
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 2: disappeared on this you know, did yes, So who's even

627
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: talking about this technicality? His like reply, guy friends.

628
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because when I was looking into that claim,

629
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: I saw people saying he does do charitable things. He

630
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: was gonna give you the U bend that money, and

631
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: then other people would say he never actually did, and

632
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,280
Speaker 1: they were like, well, he says that they needed to

633
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: to provide accounting for where the money was gonna go,

634
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: and it's like they did he ghosted them. Well he's

635
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: he didn't like the way that they put together their budget,

636
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, okay, but he didn't give the money.

637
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: That's the whole point. Like, if you wanted to give

638
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: the money, he would have. He did it. What are

639
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: you even talking about.

640
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 4: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

641
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: So what's funny to me is that Elon Musk did

642
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: not dispute any of Joyce Carol Oates' claims about his

643
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: selfishness or lack of charity, or the idea that he

644
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: devalues every club that he joins, or any of that.

645
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: He just got hung up on disputing this. He doesn't

646
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: read claim. It's like he picked the most specific bit

647
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: out of her entire long insult and decided this is

648
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 1: the thing I can refute.

649
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: And also that was the piece that was like parentheses. Yeah,

650
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: something about something about putting in parentheses makes it like

651
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: just penetrate extra deep.

652
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: Yes. So Musk starts replying to posts about films and books,

653
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, culture, to show that he is a cultured

654
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: person who knows about and enjoys culture. He replies to

655
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: someone's post about the Tom Cruise movie Edge of Tomorrow

656
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: with great movie, and later to somebody's post about the

657
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: film The Fifth Element, saying Fifth Element has great style.

658
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: Leon put it so well on Blue Sky that it

659
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: will be like his Joyce Carol Oates accused Elon Musk

660
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: of not knowing his shapes, and he just started replying

661
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: to posts about shapes with great shapes to prove otherwise.

662
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: He also tweeted about his love of the Iliad, saying

663
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: can't recommend the Iliad enough, and noted that the book

664
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: is best enjoyed as the Penguin audiobook version at one

665
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: point two to five speed. But then he actually posted

666
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: a link for the not the Iliad, So I don't know,

667
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: he's just like not reading these uncultured doesn't read charges

668
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: to me, no, And why would he know that?

669
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: Like it's best enjoyed at one point two to five speed,

670
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 2: Like what does that have to do with the text.

671
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: So I honestly think that for a lot of people,

672
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: reading is just another thing to conquer. It's just another

673
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: proof point about how smart and accomplished you are. So

674
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: of course you want to consume it on fast mode

675
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: because the whole point is just like getting through, and

676
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: it's not about appreciating it or spending time with it

677
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: or wrestling with it or enjoying it. It's just about

678
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: finishing it. I was really struggling with this because the

679
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 1: recommendation of playing it on audiobook sped up. I can't

680
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: even make an analogy of why that is so weird

681
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: If I was like, Oh, what books do you like

682
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: to read? Oh, you got to listen to the Aliad

683
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: on two X speed. It's just such a weird thing

684
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: to say about a piece of art.

685
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: It really speaks more to his experience of reading it

686
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: or in this case, listening to it, than it does

687
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: about the work itself, which is like a weird way

688
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: to criticize a piece of literature, but totally makes sense

689
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: for a narcissist who doesn't believe that other people exist

690
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: in the world.

691
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: Some on Twitter even got served with sponsored posts on

692
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 1: the platform letting them know that Elon Musk actually does read,

693
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: with a list of his favorite books. This was the

694
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: sponsored ad on Twitter for Blinkist. When he's not building

695
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: rockets boring tunnels, but eath Los Angeles are sending cars

696
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: into space. Elon Musk reads a lot. Here are nine

697
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: non fiction books he thinks that we sh all should read.

698
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: That is the saddest shit. And it's got a little

699
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: like a little like cartoon image of his face looking

700
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 2: thoughtful as perhaps she's just read something and it has

701
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: moved him.

702
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: They got my man all etched, like in the Wall

703
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: Street Journal you know those like etches, they got them

704
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: all yeah, to make them look deep.

705
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, to look deep exactly. And also, like in

706
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: this copy, which presumably came from his PR team, the

707
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: first two things. When he's not building rockets, like okay,

708
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 2: we're boring tunnels beneath Los Angeles, like specifically beneath Los Angeles.

709
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: That's just what he does. That's what the boring the

710
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: boring company has been doing for the past like thirty years,

711
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 2: just just digging tunnels beneath Los Angeles. Who's using these tunnels?

712
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: No one, No one's using these tunnles. They've not moved

713
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 2: a single passenger. But he's he's down there digging them.

714
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: Down there, boring. Yeah, how Elon does. Truly, I have

715
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: never seen a hit dog do more hollering in my life. Meanwhile,

716
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: I should say that while Elon Musk was raged tweeting

717
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: about how not mad he was, don't put in the

718
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: newspaper that I got mad because I did it. Joyce

719
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: ca well Oats was tweeting about how she was on

720
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: a return flight from a lovely literary festival in Charleston,

721
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: sitting next to a very cute dog like truly unbothered

722
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: all of this was going on. I mean, she's like

723
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: she's older, right, she's almost ninety.

724
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 2: People of that age bracket just like do not give

725
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: a fuck. Like I try to just swear this podcast,

726
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: but like there's just no other way to say, they

727
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 2: do not give about fuck.

728
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: No, She'll just eviscerate Elon Musk casually and then go

729
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: to the Charleston Literary Festival.

730
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: Right after, like, oh, look at this cute dog.

731
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: Basically, like literally, that's that is her life. So the

732
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: big question that I that I wanted to pose to

733
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: you into the listeners, do we think Elon Musk actually

734
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: reads good questions?

735
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: Listeners let us know. Email us at hello at tangote

736
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: dot com.

737
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: So I think it's debatable. Ronan Barrow, who has written

738
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: a lot about Elon Musk, has a great exploration of

739
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: the different science fiction pieces that Musk has. He said

740
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: that he likes and is inspired by, but hel rodin

741
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: Pharaoh points out that Elon Musk almost always seems to

742
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: take away the wrong thing from all of these texts

743
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: that he says are his favorites.

744
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 5: He said that his hero is Douglas Adams, a writer

745
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 5: who skewered the hyper rich, and also Musk's own kind

746
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 5: of progress at any cost. Ethos Musk is also an

747
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 5: avowed fan of deis X, also one of my favorite

748
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 5: video games. It's a first person role playing game with

749
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 5: a heavy focus on ability enhancing body modifications, and he's

750
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 5: talked about it a lot when discussing his company, Neuralik,

751
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 5: which has that same focus. The plot of the game

752
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 5: turns on a manufactured plague designed to control the masses,

753
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 5: and during the pandemic, when Musk was embracing COVID denialism,

754
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 5: he actually changed his Twitter profile picture to an image

755
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 5: of the protagonist from the game. But deis X, like

756
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 5: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, is a fundamentally anti

757
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 5: capitalist text in which the manufactured plague is the culmination

758
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 5: of years of unrestrained corporate power, and the villain of

759
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 5: the game is the world's richest man, who is a

760
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 5: media darling entrepreneur with global aspirations and political leaders under

761
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 5: his thumb.

762
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: So, if I had to say what was going on,

763
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: I think it's a combination of when somebody says their

764
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: favorite book is Catcher in the Rye because that's the

765
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: only book that they read, because I read it, and

766
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: they had to read it in high school. And when

767
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: somebody hasn't read a particular book all the way through,

768
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 1: but they feel like they know enough about it, they've

769
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: gotten the gist enough to sort of claim that they've

770
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: read it. I'm not above this. That is like me

771
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: when I tell people, sure, I've read Infinite Jest, but

772
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 1: really I've just read Considered the Lobster, and I will

773
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: never read Infinite Jest. But I feel like I've gotten

774
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: the gist enough to be like, sure, I've read it.

775
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I've gotten the gist.

776
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: But the Elon's list of his science fiction that he loves.

777
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: They're good books, they're classic works, but they are like

778
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: intro to science fiction one oh one for somebody who's

779
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: supposed to be like Earth's sci fi genius. Come on,

780
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: it's just like not deep at all. It is like

781
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 2: entry level science fiction that he's even talking about sending

782
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: a side of the fact that he's like giving a

783
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: lot of it wrong.

784
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So I won't say that I don't believe

785
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: that Elon Musk has never read a book before, like

786
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: I believe he is someone with literacy, which is something

787
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: I am something I am not convinced of when it

788
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: comes to Trump, I don't. I am not convinced that

789
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: Trump is somebody who has literacy. But I don't even

790
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: think that Joyce Carol Oates literally meant that Elon Musk

791
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: does not read. Like whether or not he reads was

792
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 1: not the substance of her criticism. Him taking this one

793
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: specific bit and then taking it super literally. Honestly, it

794
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: kind of is.

795
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 2: Like what a non reader would do to me.

796
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: I think it says a lot that that's how he's

797
00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: going about refuting all of this.

798
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think, yeah, he's just like really lashed onto

799
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: that one thing and is just like buying as to

800
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: refute it by demonstrating that he has read books.

801
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think that what she meant is that

802
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: he has not well read and that he isn't like

803
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: I believe. I agree with Joyce Carol Oates. I don't

804
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: think he's the kind of person who reads things and

805
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: takes lessons or messages or values from them the rest

806
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: the way the rest of us don't do. I think

807
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: there is an entire sub section of kind of tech

808
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: and business guys for whom reading is just another thing

809
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: to wield up people to prove how powerful and smart

810
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: and better than other people they are, like men who

811
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: keep that book The forty eight Laws of Power or

812
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: the Art of War on their shelves to look smart

813
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: and accomplished. By the way, Donald Trump has said Art

814
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: of Wars one of his favorite books. Guarantee you he

815
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: has not read it. Guarantee I have also not read it.

816
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: But I did listen to friend of the show Michael

817
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: Hobbs's podcast If Books Could Kill about it, and it's

818
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: all like about how to maneuver oxen in old timey

819
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: fifth century military tactics and shit that was Trump didn't

820
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: read that shit. It's just funny to me that toxic

821
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: men have held that book up, but they definitely have

822
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: not read as a book that makes them look like

823
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: powerful when really it's like, oh, what did you find

824
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: applicable to your current situation, like navigating your promotion at work?

825
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: The bit about how to maneuver oxen over snow? Like, like,

826
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: what were the takeaways here that you found so meaningful

827
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: and applicable to your current situation? You know, trying to

828
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: scheme on data in accounting to make your way up

829
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: in this real estate office.

830
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: Actually, like maybe one of the technological innovations of that

831
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: book was just the branding of it and like putting

832
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: basically the whole like so much of the whole message

833
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 2: like into the title, like where you can just read

834
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: the title and feel like you get just just project

835
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: your own preconceived ideas onto it and call it good enough.

836
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, no offense to men, because I know

837
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: you are one, But like the men who hold that

838
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 1: book the art of war up as a meaningful text

839
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 1: in their lives is like what war are you fighting?

840
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: Like genuinely, and it also reminds me of like, you know,

841
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: I know men who brag about how they only read

842
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: nonfiction or quote philosophy, which, let's be real, philosophy is

843
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: like self help for men, but they don't want to

844
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: call it self help like Jordan Peterson books and things

845
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: like that, as if reading nonfiction or like philosophy makes

846
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: you better or smarter, when in reality, everybody knows like

847
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: this is a proven thing. Reading fiction, certain types of fiction,

848
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: is linked to the ability to have empathy for others

849
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: and their experiences and creativity. Not to mention it's just pleasurable,

850
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: it's just fun. Yeah, I guess I just hate when

851
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: people put down the reading of others. You know that

852
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 1: all I read is like trashy fiction. Do you remember

853
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: the time that we were at the bar and our

854
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 1: friend Abby was talking about a fantasy book. I can't

855
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: remember the book, but it was about dragons.

856
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 2: It was a book Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarrows, which

857
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: is like one of the most popular books to come

858
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 2: out in the past year. A lot of people read it.

859
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: It's like young adult. It's fiction. It's a little sexy,

860
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 2: but it's uh, you know, a lot of people enjoy it.

861
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: I read that book. It was a good book.

862
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: So our friend Abby was telling us about reading that book,

863
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: and our bartender overheard it was like, oh, just trashy,

864
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: low brow fantasy for women. And I was like, oh,

865
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, because all I read is smut and

866
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: like literally the reviews are like zero plot ten out

867
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: of ten, no whatsoever, ten out of ten.

868
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: Really, he wasn't wrong. The only incorrect word in that

869
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: set in his criticism was just like, yeah, it's trashy,

870
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: low brow science fiction, but like that's fine. People love it.

871
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: It's great.

872
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like I yeah, I guess, I just feel

873
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know you you we've talked about this

874
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: how I did not read a ton for a long time.

875
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: I was in very long reading slump, and I was

876
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: gone to the beach and I brought the book The

877
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander with me and that

878
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: that's a that's a meaty book. And I was like, oh,

879
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: I had just heard an interview with her about it.

880
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta read this book. And I

881
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: took this book in my carry on to the beach

882
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: and I did not crack. I did not like read

883
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: one sentence. And someone was like, oh, why didn't you

884
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: like get like just a trashy beach read. I thought, fiction,

885
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: that's right, And now I'm just getting a whole lot

886
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: more enjoyment out of the act of reading. And so

887
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: again no shade to nonfiction, because I definitely get a

888
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: lot of value out of it. I might even be

889
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: putting a little of it out into the world myself

890
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: one of these days.

891
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: Teaser teaser, Oh I believe that foreshadowing.

892
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: Oh it's a literal world. Yes it is very good,

893
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: very good. But like that that I realized I was

894
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: making reading. I was making reading something that I wasn't

895
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: looking forward to anymore. And reading a lot of like

896
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: thrillers and mysteries and smut was really getting me back

897
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: into the space. I'm just cracking open a book, which

898
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: now I do quite a lot.

899
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. When I was a child I read

900
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 2: all the time, and lately for the past several years,

901
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 2: I just like not reading much and I don't know why,

902
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 2: and it kind of bums me out and I want

903
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 2: to read more.

904
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 3: Uh.

905
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 2: But uh, that book that that mean Bartender was shitting on.

906
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: I devoured that thing in like a week, Yeah, because

907
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: it was like dragon smut, but like whatever, it was

908
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: easy read, it was fun and it felt good to

909
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: read it.

910
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: And so even though like you I am, I, if

911
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: you were to be asking me, like what kind of

912
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: things am I reading these days, it would be stuff

913
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: that I will be like in to tell you about.

914
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: Even still, if somebody told me that I did not

915
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: read and I was not a reader, I would not

916
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: feel the need to take out a paid ad trying

917
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: to convince them otherwise. Right, I would laugh because I

918
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: have degrees in literature, right, like, I am a student

919
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: of literature, and the student of literature in me loves

920
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: to see a little old lady writer completely body Elon

921
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: Musk with the power of the humanities. As Brandon Bishop

922
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: put it on Blue Sky, Joyce Carol Oath is demonstrating

923
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: the value of the humanities through public ownership of the

924
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: richest man on Earth. To wrap it up, like, what

925
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: I really love about this and why I wanted to

926
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: talk about it on the podcast, is that I think

927
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: it goes to show the power of words. Elon Musk

928
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: is the richest man on the planet. He is one

929
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: of the most powerful men on the planet, and here

930
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: he is being eviscerated by an almost ninety year old

931
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: writer who is just good at expressing herself with words.

932
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: As Zarathustra put it on Blue Sky, Elon Musk is

933
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: in calculably richer, more famous, and more powerful than Joyce

934
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: Carol Oates. She has nothing that could hurt him except

935
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: the truth. And I would say that is a power

936
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: that we all have. We may not have their money,

937
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: we may not have the White House, we may not

938
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: have rockets, we may not own our own social media platforms,

939
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: but they do not own the truth that still belongs

940
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: to us, the writers, the readers, the little old ladies

941
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: who refuse to shut up. Joyce Carol Oates reminded him

942
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: and all of them that words still bite, they still sting,

943
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: they still cut through all the nonsense, and they still

944
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: hold the truth. And if we use them right, words

945
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: can still build a better world. With that, I will

946
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: leave you all with one of Joyce Carol Oates's posts

947
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: that I think that sums up my relationship with Twitter

948
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: and maybe even social media in general. Twitter is the

949
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: boat the boat owner pretends to enjoy until a hurricane

950
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,479
Speaker 1: washes away not only the boat but the entire doc

951
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: that's it gone. Got a story about an interesting thing

952
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: in tech, or just want to say hi?

953
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: You can read us at Hello at.

954
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: Tangody dot com.

955
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody

956
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

957
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: created by me Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio,

958
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: an unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tarry

959
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almato is

960
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,479
Speaker 1: our contributing producer. Edited by Joey pat I'm your host,

961
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate

962
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: and review us on Apple Podcasts for more podcasts from

963
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

964
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.