1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: When Steven Spielberg started to make the movie, he sought 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: cooperation from two places, the Air Force and NASA. On 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: one level, it just contextualizes what we're talking about. Obviously, 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: if somebody did come to him, they came in a 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: more covert way. This is the overt part of this story. 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: First off, NASA. In nineteen seventy eight, he was talking 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: in an interview Spielberg himself, and he said that NASA 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: wrote him a twenty page letter asking him not to 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: make the film. He had wanted cooperation, but they, as 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: he put it, they read the script and got very 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: angry and felt it was a film that would be dangerous. 12 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: Have you ever wondered if there's a secret connection between 13 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: Hollywood and UFOs. I'm Brent Friedman, and you are listening 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: to Sound, Light and Frequency. Today we're going to have 15 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: a close encounter of the Spielberg kind. So grab your 16 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: gas mask. We are going to Devil's Tower. So on 17 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: our last episode, we told you about the deal we 18 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: were offered by JC from the Office of Naval Intelligence, 19 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: the deal to make Dark Skies part of their slow 20 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: Drip disclosure program. And we also told you about that 21 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: strange formula that JC gave us the one that he 22 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: wrote on the back of a bank envelope. Okay, so 23 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: that deal and the formula are two subplots in our story, 24 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to be coming back to them many 25 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: times throughout the series. And these are super important to 26 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: the overall story we're telling, and we're certainly not trying 27 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: to be cute by not jumping into them immediately. It's 28 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: just that we want to do two things. We want 29 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: to provide context for them, and we also want to 30 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: take you inside the story and that way you can 31 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: experience this brush with the phenomenon and even the cover 32 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: up as close to the way we did as possible, 33 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: and hopefully together we might just find some answers. So 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: today we're going to shift focus away from our personal 35 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: story and pull back to Hollywood at large. We're starting 36 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: with Close Encounters of the Third Kind. What we want 37 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: to do is sort of set the stage for what's 38 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: to come and to sort of let this flow. And 39 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: in order to do that, it sure seems like a 40 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: good move to start with the actual granddaddy, the best 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: UFO movie probably ever made and maybe forever, and that's 42 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: Close Encounters of the Third Kind by Steven Spielberg. That's right, 43 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: and it's a movie that I think most people would 44 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: generally say is the seminal film that depicts UFOs aliens. 45 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: It got tons of critical acclaim made lots of money. 46 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: What do we think the log line is for this? Well, 47 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: it's pretty simple, actually, you know, and folks, you know 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: what a log line is. That's how we're supposed to 49 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: explain everything we do in Hollywood in a single sentence. 50 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: And that's kind of a great exercise sometimes because it 51 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: allows you to sort of say, what is my movie 52 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: or what is my TV series really about the log 53 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: line that we're positing. I don't know what they pitched. 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: This is just what we've got here to look at. 55 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: When ordinary people around the world experience strange visions and 56 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: encounters with UFOs, one man's obsession drives him to uncover 57 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: the truth culminating in humanity's first face to face meeting 58 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: with extraterrestrials, which you know, it almost takes the drama 59 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: out of it to put it into that, because, I mean, 60 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: let's face it, the reason people remember this is that 61 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: Richard Dreyfus, who plays the character Roy Neary, sees a 62 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: UFO has his life turned upside down. It's all about 63 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: his journey and it's all about mankind first having this 64 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: major encounter out in Wyoming at the end of the film. 65 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: I think if you ask what people remember most, they 66 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: remember dun, dunt, dunt. I'm so glad, by the way, Brent, 67 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: that you could actually do that, because I can't carry 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: a tune and I couldn't do that. I'm glad you 69 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: did it. It's the most incredible five notes in probably 70 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: the history of music. And as I understand it, when 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: they were trying to come up with something, because I 72 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the nature of communication and that 73 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: it's not always language or the language could be music, 74 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: and apparently Spielberg and Williams came to the conclusion that 75 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: six notes was too many. Seven notes was definitely too many, 76 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: and four notes wasn't enough, but five was just right, 77 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: which makes you sound like, Okay, great, there can't be 78 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: that many options. But I think when they ran it 79 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: through a mathematician, he came back and said, if you've 80 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: got five notes, you've got something like three hundred and 81 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: sixty thousand options or something. But you know what, Brent, 82 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: they came up with the right one, because it sticks 83 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: in my head to this day. Absolutely, it's haunting, And 84 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: just to connect back to our podcast, if you think 85 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: about it, the communication that the primary form of communication 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: is sound, light, and frequency. Right, You've got the sound, 87 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: you've got the tones, you've got the lights at the end, right, 88 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: and then you have the frequency, which is actually shattering 89 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: glass right in that final scene up on Devil's Tower. 90 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting that even though that was 91 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: not part of they don't say that in the movie, 92 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: that is actually something that comes right back to our 93 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: basic thesis that sound, light, and frequency may be the 94 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: secrets of the universe might just be. And one of 95 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: the things that I found interesting in getting ready to 96 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: do this was just how Spielberg thought Close Encounters of 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: the Third Kind was a great title for the thing, 98 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: and he got that from Jay Allen Heinik, who of 99 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: course is the first person who ever defined it and 100 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: was working on Close Encounters as a consultant, And just 101 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: for the sake of people who were, like, h what's 102 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: that all about? Just a reminder, you're not the only 103 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: people that might wonder that. The marketing people, when they 104 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: were getting ready to put out this film, they were concerned. 105 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: This made me laugh because I was listening to an 106 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: interview that I think Spielberg said, some of the people 107 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: in the marketing department thought it sounded like it had 108 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: something to do with porn. Close encounters of the third kind, 109 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: and so they went in their marketing very clearly. Over 110 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: and over they had everybody explaining what it was. Close 111 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: encounters of the first kind is a close range siding. 112 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: Close encounters of the second kind are physical effects, so 113 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: whether it's radiation burns or maybe landing depressions on the ground. 114 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: But a close encounter of the third kind is a 115 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: UFO siding where there is direct visual contact with an occupant, 116 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: whether you want to call them non human intelligence or 117 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: aliens or visitors or others, seeing somebody who ain't from 118 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: around the neighborhood. Well, now, interestingly, they could have avoided 119 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: all of these marketing headaches ipt they'd just gone with 120 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: the original title, which was Watch the Skies, which is 121 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: a great title. I say that often in emails. Watch 122 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: the Skies. It's a little bit of a painful thing 123 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: for me because about twenty years ago somebody passed away 124 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: and they had collected all of the great screenplays and 125 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: my wife and I inherited them all and that included 126 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: I believe a first draft of Watch the Skies, first 127 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: production draft. 128 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: Did it say that on the title? Yes? 129 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: Okay, yes, it said watch the Skies on the title page, 130 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: and it was clearly real. I mean, this guy had 131 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: all the originals. And at the time, we were in 132 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: what you would call cleaning mode, and my wife was saying, 133 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: why do I have scripts all over the house here? 134 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: We've got to do something with them, and so we 135 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: donated them to the Writer's Guild of America. So that 136 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: means anyone listening to this, if you're a member or 137 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: you can go to their library, you could read that 138 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: same copy that we donated. And my only regret, of course, 139 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: is it would probably be worth millions on an eBay 140 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: account right now. But you know what, you got to 141 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: help the world. 142 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: Got to help the world. Well, So getting back to 143 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: the movie. 144 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: From a personal standpoint, I had a very interesting experience 145 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: that a movie came out in seventy seven. 146 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: It came out after Star. 147 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: Wars, but the same year as still the same year 148 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: as Star Wars, right, but I think later that year. 149 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: And I grew up in the Bay Area, I was 150 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: not old enough at that time to get in a 151 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: car and go see the movie. I don't even know 152 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: that I was aware of the movie, to be honest, 153 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: except a friend of mine's father had apparently had some 154 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: sort of UFO experience, was all fired up to see it, 155 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: put a bunch of kids in the car, me included, 156 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: and we went out on opening night. Now, apparently Close 157 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: Encounters opened only in two theaters, initially LA and New 158 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: York for a week or two, and then once everyone 159 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: you know was convinced it was a hit, it went wide. 160 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: So I think the second or week or what ever, 161 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: when it opened in San Francisco. I saw it on 162 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: opening night and it blew my mind. I had never 163 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: seen anything like that before, and some of those images 164 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: are still haunt me. I probably have seen the movie 165 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: thirty times. I've seen it a lot. I don't think 166 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: i've seen it thirty And by the way, I'm just curious, 167 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: what was the audience reaction. Were they reacting with you 168 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: at the same time, Yeah, I mean the audience reaction, 169 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: there were gasps. I think basically Spielberg wanted to He's 170 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: said in quotes that he wanted to capture that childlike 171 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: wonder of experiencing something that kids don't question. 172 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: Right, and he cast the movie that way. 173 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of the actors he felt had 174 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: that childlike quality, and I think that came out in 175 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: the screenings where the audience were just swept up in 176 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: this experience and they weren't questioning whether any of this 177 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: was possible. They were questioning when was it going to 178 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: happen to them? That was my takeaway, and that was 179 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: I remember on the ride home, everyone was talking about 180 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: how cool it would be to go inside the sho 181 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: although you didn't get to go inside the ship when 182 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: it was released in nineteen seventy seven. Just to be clear, 183 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: there were there have been three versions of Close Encounters 184 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: of the Third Kind released. The first was that feature 185 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: that you saw in nineteen seventy seven, and then there 186 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: was a special edition in nineteen eighty. When Spielberg made 187 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: what he called a deal with the Devil. He agreed 188 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: to take more money to shoot some scenes that were 189 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: more euphological in nature, and he wanted to put those 190 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: in the film, and in exchange, the studio said, yeah, 191 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: but you got to take him on board the ship. 192 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: So he shot the scene that took everybody on board 193 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: the ship with Roy Neary, and then in nineteen ninety 194 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: eight he finally got to put the director's cut out, 195 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: and it doesn't have that. He really felt like the 196 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: audience should make up their own mind about what was 197 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: inside the ship. So that's out of there now. I 198 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: just to go back to I don't have a great 199 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: I didn't sit in San Francisco with the big cool crowd. 200 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: I was a young TV newsman in Eugene, Ore and 201 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: I had a cameraman who was very into this, and 202 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: I was kind of into it too. We drive around 203 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: all day looking for stories, and we were very expectant 204 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: about this thing because a couple of years earlier, as 205 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: a young FM news guy, I had covered the Travis 206 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: Walton case. So I was like, Okay, I know a 207 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: little bit about UFOs. I wonder if this is going 208 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: to have since it was the third kind Occupants, if 209 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: it would be an abduction film in some respect. I 210 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: thought maybe it would be. And even though Roy Neary, 211 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: the main character, isn't abducted per se, the young little 212 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: boy who's in the film is abducted. So it's both 213 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: it's an abduction film and it's a wondrous film, and 214 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: the only thing I thought, when you're dying about wonder 215 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: Spielberg did go a little too far for some people 216 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: in that opening film. In the final credits, they played 217 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: the song when you Wish upon a Star, and it's 218 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: a little saccharin for a UFO film. But people seem 219 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: to forgive it. But I don't think it's in the 220 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: director's cut. No, I believe it was taken out. I 221 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: think it got some negative reactions. Well, you know, the 222 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: interesting thing is just to give some cultural context here. 223 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: If you think about it, what Jaws did for monster movies, 224 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: Close Encounters did for alien movies, which is it legitimized 225 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: those genres? 226 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: Right? 227 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: These were no longer B and C Hollywood movies. These 228 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: were huge commercial box office successes and critically acclaimed movies, 229 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: And so I think it changed a lot. But as 230 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: you said, even in the special edition, he depicted the 231 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: inside of a ship. And while most people at that 232 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: time probably felt this felt real, this felt like what 233 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: the UFO experience is all about. I think if you 234 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: compare what he showed as the inside of the ship 235 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: with what abductees over the years have described, he did 236 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: not get that right. 237 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: No, he did not get that right. 238 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: Now, interestingly, I think people can say he did get 239 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: a lot right right. And by the way, that's what 240 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: JC said to us when he came to make a deal. 241 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: That was what him apparently and the Office of Naval 242 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: Intelligence Two dark skies. But let's go back and look 243 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: now at a list of some of the things that 244 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: we believe that he did get right, that Spielberg got 245 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: right and put on film, in some cases the first 246 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: that anyone ever seen. 247 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: With regards to. 248 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: The uphology, there certainly were a lot of first in it. 249 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: In one respect, it sort of begins with what you 250 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: might call a UFO flap, where everybody knows there's going 251 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: to be UFO's out tonight, so let's go out. And 252 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, there's people in their trucks and their armchairs 253 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: and sitting outside watching them. And on the night that 254 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: that's happening, this main character, Roy Neary, who played by 255 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: Dreyfus again is electrician. The power's out, so again there's 256 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: a euphological thing and somehow they influence the power through 257 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: some kind of electromagnetic pulse event or whatever, and he's 258 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: out doing his repairs and that is a creepy but 259 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: very cool and incredibly iconic scene. There he is in 260 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: his truck, he sees a light sort of behind his truck, 261 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: and then suddenly all hell breaks loose, right, the truck 262 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: shaking and everything's going on. Now, technically, was that a 263 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: close encounter of the second kind that he has there? Yes, okay, 264 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: so we're escalating. In fact, you go from a first 265 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: kind where they've been seen, and then you go to, well, actually, 266 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: now I question that he has his encounter first, and 267 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: then we see the UFOs the next we start, and 268 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: we start with them finding lost planes from Oh yeah, right, 269 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: I'm talking about people who saw things. So I think 270 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: we can say that was the first kind, right, I 271 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: have to say, yeah, I got to go back to 272 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: the lost planes. For me, listen, this is just personal opinion. 273 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: I was a lot less impressed by the family stuff. 274 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: It always irritated me a little bit because this Roy 275 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: Neary character has a family that, you know, it's kind 276 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: of dysfunctional, and every time I was watching that, I 277 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: was like, come on, let's get to the good stuff. 278 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 2: Come on. 279 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: And so you really get the good stuff at the 280 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: beginning of the film, where they are finding in the 281 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: middle of a sandstorm in the desert, all these planes 282 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: from the World War II era. Frankly, I think it's 283 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: from Flight nineteen that was lost over the Bermuda Triangle allegedly. 284 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: And there they are. They're in the desert, and not 285 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: only the planes untouched, but our guys are discovering it. 286 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: And it's very secret and it's a wonderful scene. 287 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: And the planes are intact. 288 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: Maybe they turn them on right, yeah, and they've got 289 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: the same fuel in them and everything. It's really great 290 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: and so but I just realized what the other first 291 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: kind experience is as we go inside the air traffic 292 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: controller tower. 293 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: Yes, that is one of. 294 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: The most authentic UFO scenes I have ever seen. It 295 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: feels like it's a transcript of something that actually must 296 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: have happened. It is brilliant. It's just it's people talking 297 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: to a jet pilot who is experiencing some kind of sighting. 298 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: He's trying to call it in to them, and they 299 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: all know something crazy is happening. And so you see 300 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: more of these air traffic controllers coming together and the 301 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: main guy is saying, do you want to report? Do 302 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: you want to make a report? Do you want to 303 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: make a report? And everybody knows, but they haven't said 304 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: the word yet. And then the next time, do you 305 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: want to report a UFO? And of course that really 306 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: touches on the major thing about UFOs, which is there's 307 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: been a stigma all these years. Absolutely, not only do 308 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: pilots not want to report these things, but the average 309 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: person that sees something is very concerned about talking about 310 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: it because their family will say to them, please, don't 311 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: talk about that anymore. My friends think you're weird, dad, 312 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So there's been a lot of stigma. 313 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: There's certainly been stigma for pilots, many of which were 314 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: grounded historically for daring to report. So ultimately that pilot 315 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: does not report it ties in with something that's very 316 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: big in the UFO world right now. Ryan Graves, who 317 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: is the lieutenant in the US and an FA eighteen 318 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: F fighter pilot who spent ten years doing this. He 319 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: was the guy on the twenty fifteen USS Roosevelt incident 320 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: who reported spears inside of huge Yeah, that's kind of 321 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: a weird thing to be out flying around, and he 322 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: and his fellow pilots reported those things. That's a far 323 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: cry from reporting a flying saucer. You know, something like that. 324 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: But he has started the Americans for Safe Aerospace. He's 325 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: testified before Congress about this. So in many respects, if 326 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: there's any progress being made at all in this topic, 327 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: one of them is at least among the first responders, 328 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: if you will, in the air, the pilots, there is 329 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: less stigma. They are more and more being encouraged to 330 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: tell people what they see well. And so but that's 331 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: a perfect example of what one of the things Spielberg 332 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: got right. He captured that era in terms of the stigma, right, 333 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: as you said, not just to pilots but to the 334 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: general public. But going back to the thing that Ryan 335 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: Graves saw, which was the sphere inside the square, the 336 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: sphere the energy being the orb if you will, that 337 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: was the first time I believe they had ever been 338 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: shown on film in close encounters, right. You see the 339 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: big crafts, the beautiful the ice cream cones, I think 340 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: as they're called in the coming around the mountain sequence, 341 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: but then trailing them as almost like they're the managers 342 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: or the scouts or something, are these little energy balls, 343 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: these little balls of light? And I don't think that 344 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 1: had ever been discussed before in public, don't it certainly 345 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: had never been seen on film. I think it all 346 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: goes back to the Foo fighters right in World War Two. 347 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: So where that came from don't know. But that's also 348 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: something that everyone is talking about today. Everybody's talking about 349 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: the orbs, and not just orbs flying around, I mean 350 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: louel Azondo, who of course is almost synonymous with UFO 351 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: disclosure efforts because he was part of that twenty seventeen 352 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: disclosure and helped get those three first videos from the 353 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: Navy out before everybody when the New York Times reported 354 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: on it. Loue Elizanda wrote a book that came out 355 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: last year called Imminent, Great Book, and it's a very 356 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: powerful book, and it's really his inside or account of 357 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: working in the Pentagon trying to get the truth out, 358 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: and when he couldn't get the truth out, he quit 359 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 1: so that he could talk from the outside. In this book, 360 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: there's a chapter where he talks about these orbs are 361 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: inside his house, and not only is he seeing them, 362 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: his wife is seeing them, his kids have seen them. 363 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: They're outside the house, neighbors see them, which raises all 364 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: kinds of questions that won't be gotten into in this episode. 365 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: But sort of the hitchhiker effect. Do these orbs attach 366 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: themselves to people or things or places well, But going 367 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: back to Close Encounters, now ask the question these had 368 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: really never been discussed in public. They again, they were 369 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: referenced in World War II lore around about the Foo fighters, 370 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: but they were brought into the lexicon for the public 371 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: in Close Encounters as these light orbs. Now we know 372 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: either Steven Spielberg was prescient in terms of picking something 373 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: that would become such a defining element of modern upology today, 374 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: but he was also being advised by two very interesting 375 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: people on this movie, Jay Allen Heinik and Jacques Valet, 376 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: who you actually have a personal experience with, Well, I do. 377 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: This year, I got to have lunch at Jacques Frolat's 378 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: apartment of all things, and it's so envious. It was 379 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: such a cool thing, I mean to think, well, first 380 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: of all, his lovely wife made lunch for us. I mean, 381 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: that was pretty cool. But apropos of Close Encounters because 382 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: it's hard not to talk to him about it. What 383 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: everyone needs to understand is there is a character in 384 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: Close Encounters, the French scientist Lacombe, and Lacombe is played 385 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: by the great French director of Francois Truffau played very well, 386 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: but laid incredibly well. He grounds it. I think that's 387 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: Spielberg's crowning accomplishment in casting. He had to screw up 388 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: his courage to ask him, and he said yes, and 389 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: he came and said, I don't need to be a 390 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: director here, I'm an actor. And he acted the hell 391 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, did a great job. But that 392 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: character was certainly inspired by Jacques Vallet. So people have 393 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: asked Jacques about this all the time, so you know, 394 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to his house and not 395 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: ask him. So I did say, what's your take on 396 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: being portrayed in film? And I bet that was kind 397 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: of cool, And of course he's got that smile, and 398 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: of course it was cool. He loved it. But the 399 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: thing that he said and has said consistently is the 400 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: ending is a little too positive for him, based on 401 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: the evidence that he has seen in his ongoing investigations. 402 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: He's not saying that it's completely wrong. He's just saying 403 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: there's a darker side to what he has seen in 404 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: the people and the witnesses he's talked to. And I 405 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: thought that was kind of interesting. It also mirrors something 406 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: that the great UFO researcher Stanton Friedman said. Stanton also 407 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: felt that it's hard not to see Close Encounters of 408 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: the third kind and say, what a great freaking movie 409 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: this is. It's not a documentary, it's a movie, right, 410 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: And so Stanton felt very much like Jock Delay, which 411 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: is it's great ending, it's fun. But there's another side 412 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: to all this. Well, speaking of another side to all 413 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: of this and going back to this concept of firsts, 414 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: I think this is the other aspect of Close Encounters. 415 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: We want to talk about outside the movie, everything surrounding 416 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: the movie. So in the topic of first I want 417 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: to bring up a friend and a colleague who you, 418 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: of course know because we both worked with him as 419 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: the director on our Dark Sky's Pilot, our Total Pilot. 420 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: That's Toby Hooper. Just to give a. 421 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: Little context here, I was friends with Toby because we 422 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: were working on an independent movie developing it a couple 423 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: of years prior, and when we were looking for directors 424 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: for the Dark Sky's Pilot, we hit on Toby and 425 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: everyone got excited about Toby. Of course, Toby had done 426 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Poltergeist, where he worked 427 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 1: with Steven Spielberg, and apparently he and Steven were very 428 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: good friends. So here's a very interesting story that goes 429 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: back to when we were scouting locations for The Dark 430 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: Sky's Pilot. We were up in the New Hall Ranch area, 431 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: which is north of Los Angeles, up in the hills, 432 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: and we were looking for an area where we could 433 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: shoot our crop circle sequence we had in the Dark 434 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: Sky's Pilot. There's a big crop circle right that is 435 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: the main character finds and has a whole interesting experience with. 436 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: And so at the end of the day, after we 437 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: had scouted this whole area, the small production group went 438 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: down to like kind of a roadhouse restaurant, and because 439 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: I had previously been friends with Toby, I sat aside 440 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: with him while everyone else was talking about logistics and whatnot. 441 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: And he had told me before that he and Steven 442 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: were really good friends, but they were very competitive, right, 443 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: especially when it came to film, And I had said 444 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: to him over dinner, you're going to finally beat Stephen 445 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: in something. You're going to be the first one to 446 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: put a crop circle on film, because despite everything Stephen 447 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: had done up until that point, he had not done 448 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: that and Toby kind of chalked and said, yeah, yeah, 449 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean, but I'll never be ahead of Stephen in 450 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: this category. And I was like, why, what do you mean. 451 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: He goes, well, I mean he knows a lot. He 452 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: knows way more than me. And I said, oh really, 453 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: how so he said, well, yeah, I guess like sometime 454 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: after Jaws or something, you know, because Jaws was such 455 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: a big hit, he was approached by some people from 456 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: the military or the government or something and they offered 457 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: him some sort of deal. Now, to put this in 458 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: full context, this was before the pilot had been shot. 459 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: It was certainly before the pilot had aired, which means 460 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: this is way before the premiere party when people came 461 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: to you and I and said we want to make 462 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: you a deal. So I'm hearing about a deal before 463 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: it's even happened to us at any rate. This was 464 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: what Toby said. He didn't make a big sorry for 465 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: the punt, He didn't make a big deal out of it. 466 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: It was just a conversational thing. I questioned him about 467 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: it a little bit and he kind of moved on 468 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: and that was that. Now, unfortunately Toby has passed away, 469 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: so we have no way to prove this. And I'm 470 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: sure Steven Spielberg is not going to come on our 471 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: podcast and talk about this, but he's welcome to anytime. Yes, 472 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: so please come. We'd love to talk about your movies. 473 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: We're huge fans. But I think now what we have 474 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: to do is we have to ask the question if 475 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: this were true. And we're not saying it is, We're 476 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: just saying there's anecdotal evidence. Let's look at some other evidence, 477 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: some circumstantial evidence that might imply maybe Steven and the 478 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: people who made close Encounters knew something that may have 479 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: been given some information. And let's start with Bryce project Cirpo. 480 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: Oh boy, you want to start with Cirpo. Let's start 481 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: with you're going for the Okay, let's put the smoke 482 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: and gun on the table, all right, We're going to 483 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: follow up on all of that. 484 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 2: We'll be back after a break. 485 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: Well, okay, And I don't think we have to worry 486 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: about spoilers. This movie's been out for almost fifty years now, 487 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: so if you get spoiled on this one, tough luck. 488 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: The film ends when Roy Neary, the Dreyfus character, goes 489 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: to what is the Devil's Tower in Wyoming, which by 490 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: the way, is a real place, and Louel Zondo even 491 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: lives in there there, which I find fascinating. But that's 492 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: another episode, of course. But Dreyfus goes there, and the 493 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: ending of the film is literally there are twelve people 494 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: who are ready to go onto this mothership and be 495 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: taken to the home planet of these aliens in kind 496 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: of a trade, and Dreyfus gets to go with him. 497 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: He's the thirteenth man, if you will. I think he's 498 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: singled out as the only one that goes if I 499 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: remember correctly. Everyone else is left behind. Oh they are. Yeah, 500 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: you're telling me something I didn't understand. I've watched this, 501 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: that's my reading. I've seen it thirty times. I got 502 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: I got the only one that walks on the ship 503 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: when we go inside the ship, it's him. 504 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: That's true. 505 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: But Kaish always saw there's a line of those the 506 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: conga line of thirteen people in the red suits, I thought, 507 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: in all the little gray surround him and they take 508 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: him individually up onto the ship. 509 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 2: Wow, I'm so back to projects. 510 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to process this right now because I've just 511 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: learned something totally new. Okay, well, okay, but there were 512 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: twelve of them, and they supposedly went off to another 513 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: planet or were supposed to, whether it was just Roy 514 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: that went or not. And then one of the alien 515 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: stays here, which is exactly what supposedly happened in real 516 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: life in nineteen sixty five, according to the rumors, And 517 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: again they're rumors. There's no hard evidence I've ever seen 518 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: that Project Circle was real. But supposedly in nineteen sixty five, 519 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: we did send a dozen people someplace. They came back 520 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: thirteen years later, and they told about their life and 521 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: adventures on this other planet. And what's interesting thing about 522 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: it is it's a chicken and egg kind of thing. 523 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 2: All right? 524 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: Did this really happen? And then did people come to 525 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: Spielberg and say, by the way, here's something you might 526 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: want to consider for your ending. There's this real thing. 527 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: Or is it the other way around that Spielberg comes 528 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: up with this thing about twelve people being ready to 529 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: go off to another planet, and then later because of 530 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: this didn't really make the public until two thousand and five. Correct, 531 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: So it's chicken and egg. Where do you come down 532 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: on that chicken or egg? Well, hold on, I'm going 533 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: to withhold my chicken and egg vote for just a moment, 534 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: just looking at the evidence again, and I think this 535 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: actually brings up some of the what's so frustrating about 536 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: you afology, right, is because once you start looking at 537 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: it kind of analytically, at some point you find yourself 538 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: you've fallen into the you've stepped into the phenomenon, and 539 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: everything logic doesn't always hold up there. If you look 540 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: at the chicken idea, then you say, okay, well Spielberg 541 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: was the one that planted this idea, where did it 542 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: come from? Well, as you said, there's only rumors about 543 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: Project CERPO. They're pretty sophisticated and elaborate, to the point 544 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: where I believe hundreds, if not thousands of pages were 545 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: leaked right that were part of some sort of Defense 546 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: agency classified documents or something. Obviously, those, like almost everything 547 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: that comes out into the public sphere, have been highly contested, 548 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,959 Speaker 1: and you know, people have tried to debunk them and whatnot. 549 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: So we don't have any verifiable evidence that Project CERPO happened. 550 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: But if somebody was trying to reintroduce it into the public, 551 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: why did they wait almost thirty years to do so? 552 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: That seems odd. So no one knew about it in 553 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: seventy seven, seemingly. Is it a coincidence that Steven Spielberg 554 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: puts this out there and then almost thirty years later 555 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: it seeps out into the public. Now, the other side 556 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: of it, as you said, is well, what if someone 557 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: was just copying this? Okay, that's possible, But what a 558 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: strange coincidence that it came out in seventy seven as 559 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: this idea in a movie and then suddenly it becomes 560 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: this UFO touch point to the point where now there's 561 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: a documentary that's coming out on Apple. That's the thing 562 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: is where does the truth end and the fiction begin? 563 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: We don't know. It's a lot And if you think 564 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: about it, in two thousand and five, when they first 565 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: started talking about Circle, and by the way, this is 566 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: a quagmire that we could be caught in forever talking 567 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: Cirpo's talk. But when they first came out with it, 568 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: they said that they were taken to zeta reticuli, which, 569 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: if you're listening, you're saying zet a reticuli. That sounds somewhat, 570 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: That sounds familiar. The reason it sounds familiar is that's 571 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: where Betty and Barney Hill, who were abducted in nineteen 572 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: sixty one, said that they were that the people who 573 00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: abducted them were from the Zemens. Yeah, they were Zeta reticular, 574 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: who took them and experimented on them and put them back. 575 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: Now what's interesting is, again Surpo was supposed to have 576 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: happened in nineteen sixty five. Okay, Betty and Barney's story 577 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: didn't actually become public until nineteen sixty six. As I 578 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: recall when the interrupted journey, Well it was sixty No, 579 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: it was late sixty five, So all this is going 580 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: on at the same time. Now I have to tell you, 581 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of this. There is 582 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: not a lick of hard evidence on the Project Circo front. 583 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: There's just a lot of people that talk about it, 584 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: and we're now two of them apparently. But I will 585 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: say it's worth talking about whether Spielberg was approached or not, 586 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: because what I will take to the bank over the 587 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: Surpos story is your story about Toby Hoopert. I remember 588 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: when you told me that, and I was I mean, 589 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: that took me back, because we all know Spielberg, and 590 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: for someone who worked with them to say, oh, yeah, 591 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: they came and talked to him. So let's just step 592 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: back for a minute and say, is it possible that 593 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: Spielberg was approached. Well, first of all, look at his 594 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: status in nineteen seventy four. I think Jaws comes out, 595 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: it's a huge hit, and the very next thing he 596 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: wants to do is Close Encounters of the Third Kind, 597 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 1: and he takes over two years making it before it 598 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: comes out in seventy seven, almost three years he's working 599 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: on it, So there's plenty of time for people to 600 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 1: realize he's working on it and to have approached him 601 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: if they wanted to. We should point out, though, in 602 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: the totality of this Stephen Spielberg has always denied ever 603 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: being officially briefed. He's denied the mere act of it, 604 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: let alone surpo or anything else. He has said repeatedly 605 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: that he was simply fascinated by UFO reports he had 606 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: read from Heinek and Valet, and he wanted to make 607 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: a film about Awe and contact. That's his official position now, 608 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: not to get into name dropping yearning, but we both 609 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: worked with the guy. Yeah, so I think we should 610 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: at least talk about our impressions about what he knew 611 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: and what he didn't know about UFOs. You want to 612 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: go first, Well, I think yes, we both work with 613 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: them ironically on UFO alien projects, right that were not 614 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: dark skuys. We're not close encounters. My experience was, you know, 615 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: somewhat less than yours, which is I was working at 616 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: Electronic Arts on a game when he had a deal 617 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: down the hall on a project code named Lmno, which 618 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: was about a female alien who is on Earth and 619 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: kind of like the man who fell to Earth, has 620 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: interesting powers and you're playing as this alien woman navigating 621 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: trying to escape the clutches of various government people who 622 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: are trying to catch her and whatnot. And so my 623 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: experiences sitting in the room with Steven, you know, bouncing 624 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: story ideas on occasion was he has that childlike wonder 625 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: right that he was looking to capture in close encore. 626 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: He asked a lot of questions. I didn't personally feel 627 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: that he was any expert on the topic, but he 628 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: certainly had a lot of interest and enthusiasm for it. 629 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 630 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I met him three times, but only once in 631 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: a hard UFO context. First time I met him was 632 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: literally I got hired to write a video game called 633 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: Ghost in the machine for DreamWorks and had a meeting 634 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: with him. This is when Dark Skies was on, though 635 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: I will say this as I was introduced to him 636 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: at that time. He shook my hand and said, great 637 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: to see you again. And this is the first time 638 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: I ever met him, so I'm sure that's a line 639 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: that he must have to use. And he said, I'm 640 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: a big fan of Dark Skys and I was a 641 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: surprise to me for reasons that we will go into 642 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: in an episode further downstream, but anyway, that happened. Then 643 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, I was hired to work on 644 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: the Taken mini series and was part of that original 645 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: writer's room and was one of the three time producers 646 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: on it. And we had I think three different There 647 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: was no zoom back then, right, so instead of a zoom, 648 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: he had somebody. He was in the Hamptons and he 649 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: had a photographer there and we had a photographer where 650 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: we were out here in Hollywood, and the three of 651 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: us had a meeting with Spielberg and I'll come back 652 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: to it. And second, the third time I met him 653 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: was I was chairman of the TV Academy and they said, 654 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: who do you want to sit with? At the Emmys, 655 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: and this was the year that he and Hanks were 656 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: nominated for Band of Brothers and won the Emmy, and 657 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: I said, I get to pick and they said sure, 658 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: and I went, what about them? So they sat me 659 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: with them and that was wonderful. Back to Taken though, 660 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: as people know, I think it's a ten part mini 661 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: series that was on Sci Fi and it actually is 662 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: very similar in some respects to Dark Skies, which preceded 663 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: it by three years, I believe. And we had worked 664 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: out a lot of things. The writer's room really knocked 665 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: out all kinds of things about UFOs and it was 666 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: a pretty darn good story and we were sort of 667 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: I think we had sent the paperwork to him and 668 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: then he was responding to it. All I'm going to 669 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: say is this, He didn't sound like a guy that 670 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: was briefed. He sounded like a guy. I wouldn't say 671 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: childlike wonder that's what the movie version of him was. 672 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: I would just say he sounded like a guy of 673 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: which I've talked to hundreds, who is really into the 674 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: UFO UAP topic, wants to know what you know, knows 675 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: enough about certain incidents that he wants to say what 676 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: do you think about this? What about that? And it 677 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: was a pretty lively interesting conversation all three times where 678 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: he would, yes, he had story points about the arc 679 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: of everything, but he would also want to stop and 680 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: talk about the UFO angle of something. It blew my mind. 681 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: I was so I felt really great that I got 682 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: to be a part of that and we could talk 683 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: about that. 684 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 2: For a while. 685 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: What I'd rather say, though, is people constantly do allege 686 00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: that he was briefed and that somehow he was to 687 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: do things to help acclimate us to the alien contact issue, 688 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: to make it easier for us to understand what's going on. 689 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: Let's put that under a microscope for a second, because 690 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: I look, I'd love to believe it. It sounds interesting and 691 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: it happened to us, so why not. I mean, it 692 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: could easily have happened if they're coming to us. It's 693 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: why go to Friedman and Zabel when you got Spielberg 694 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: to go to I mean, so, yeah, I can definitely 695 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: believe that. But if there's a message that was imparted 696 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: to Spielberg in which he was supposed to impart to 697 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: the public, it's a very confused message. Think about this 698 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: close encounters they're the space Brothers. 699 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 2: They're benevolent space. 700 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: Benevolent space brother aliens, et cuddly scientists running around. Okay, 701 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: war of the world's badass martians, marauding the countryside and 702 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: killing people, falling skies, a full on alien invasion. 703 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 2: What's the message there? 704 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: Well, so this is a very interesting topic. I think, 705 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: first of all, I have to personally ask myself, why 706 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: would Toby lie to me? I had been friends with 707 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: him for years. He had a southern charm to him. 708 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: He grew up in Texas, obviously, and he was honest 709 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 1: to a fault, and so the thought that he would 710 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: lie to me seems strange. Now, then you could say, well, 711 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,879 Speaker 1: maybe Stephen lied to him. Maybe, But if he's gone 712 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: on record as saying I was never why would he 713 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: be telling a good friend a lie? Right, So that 714 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: part is I'm stuck in that the paradox of that. 715 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: But let's go back to the other question you asked, 716 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: which is what's the message. Well, I think we have 717 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: to look at time is not static. Time is constantly flowing. 718 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: And let's go back to the seventies. What we had 719 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: come out of in the fifties and sixties was a 720 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: lot of movies where aliens were scary and hostile. Right. 721 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: Certainly the fifties are Earth versus the Flying Saucers, Yes, 722 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: and even the day there stood still like big Intelligence 723 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: is coming down and telling humans how to live, and 724 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: they were imposed and scary, they were not benevolent space brothers. 725 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 2: Right. 726 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: So you could make the point that in the seventies, 727 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: maybe the message from on high was let's try and 728 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: acclimate people to the idea that they don't have to 729 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: be scared to watch the skies, right, that they're benevolent 730 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: space brothers. Now, as we move into the eighties and 731 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: nineties and beyond, maybe the messaging has changed. Maybe there's 732 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: a bigger point here in well, let's put out many 733 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: different messages through Hollywood so that everything is out there 734 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: and it's all confusing and people don't know what to believe, 735 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: which is pretty much the state of the world we're in. 736 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: It pretty much explains where we are right this very second. Yeah, 737 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: so I think again, we don't have the hard evidence 738 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: to back any of this up. It's just we're looking 739 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: at pieces of history and saying, isn't this interesting? 740 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 2: Right? 741 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: So now, don't forget that when Steven Spielberg started to 742 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: make the movie. He sought Oh, he sought co op 743 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: from two places, the Air Force and NASA. 744 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 2: Right, let's take a look at do we have those 745 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 2: I do? 746 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: I do. 747 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 2: Yes. 748 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: It is fascinating because on one level, it just contextualizes 749 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Obviously, if somebody did come to him, 750 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: they came in a more covert way. This is the 751 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: overt part of this story. First off, NASA. In nineteen 752 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: seventy eight, he was talking in an interview Spielberg himself, 753 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: and he said that NASA wrote him a twenty page 754 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: letter asking him not to make the film, which I 755 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: thought was pretty fascinating. He had wanted cooperation, but they, 756 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,919 Speaker 1: as he put it, they read the script and got 757 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: very angry and felt it was a film that would 758 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: be dangerous. That's wild. But then this part actually humanizes it, 759 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: he said. I think they mainly wrote the letter because 760 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: Jaws convinced so many people around the world that there 761 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: were sharks and toilets and baptizs, not just in the 762 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: oceans and rivers. They were afraid the same kind of 763 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: epidemic would happen with UFOs, which in some respects did 764 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: right because I mean close encounters. Let me put it 765 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: this way. I already knew about UFOs, and you did 766 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: two when we saw it, and it played on one 767 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: level for that, But a whole lot of people just 768 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: went to see what's this guy who just directed Jaws 769 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: got up his sleeve and they saw aliens and they went, 770 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: holy crap, what's this all about. Here's the one that 771 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: I find more interesting because it pertains to you and me. 772 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: He got a letter from It was actually the National 773 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: Guard Bureau in DC who wrote Columbia Pictures, but they 774 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: were writing on behalf of the Air Force. Okay, this 775 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: is a direct quote from the letter written to Columbia Pictures. 776 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: Quote. 777 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: We have reviewed the script and believe it would be 778 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: inappropriate for the Air Force to support the production. In 779 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, the US Air Force completed a study 780 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: which concluded there is no evidence concerning the evidence of 781 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: UFOs that would. 782 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:57,800 Speaker 2: Be Project Bluebook. 783 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: By the way, we have not been involved in UFOs 784 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: since that study, other than answering queries about the study. 785 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: Here's the good part. Now, the proposed film leaves the 786 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: distinct impression that UFOs in fact do exist. It also 787 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: involves the government and military in a big cover up 788 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: of the existence of UFOs. These two points are counter 789 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: to Air Force and Department of Defense policy and make 790 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: support to the production inappropriate. Well, they're simply reacting to 791 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: what Spielbury actually said he wanted to do. He himself says, 792 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: I was into UFOs, but then Watergate happened and I thought, oh, 793 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,240 Speaker 1: that's my story, the government cover up. So they were saying, 794 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 1: we don't buy it. But that's where it gets interesting 795 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: to us, because this is the Air Force thing. 796 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 2: They don't want to help. 797 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is the last little piece of circumstantial 798 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: evidence that ties everything back to Dark Skies and our 799 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: friend JC. So going back to that deal we were offered, 800 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: it was coming from ONI, the Office of Naval Intelligence, 801 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: and they claimed to us that the Air Force was 802 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: actually against disclosure and that they, as the Office of 803 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: Naval Intelligence, were the ones who were trying to get 804 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: the truth out there, kind of using the veil of 805 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: fiction to drip feed and condition the public over time. Well, 806 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: what they were basically telling us was that there were 807 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: two warring factions within the government, within the military industrial complex, 808 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: and they named them as the Aviary and the Aquarium. 809 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: And so going back to this idea that the Air 810 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: Force was telling Steven Spielberg, do not make this movie. Well, 811 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: that actually conforms quite nicely to what we were. 812 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 2: Told by JC. 813 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely true. And I will tell you my Street Nielsen's 814 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: on telling the story about how the people who came 815 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: to us from the Office of Naval Intelligence and by 816 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: the way, Dark Skies, so you know, folks, the pilot 817 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: itself said that the head of Majestic twelve in our 818 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: pilot was a naval officer. And that's one of the 819 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: things that the people who approached us said is we 820 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: think you got a lot of things right, one of 821 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: which was you put the Navy in charge of the 822 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: cover up. So that's very interesting. When I've used the 823 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: word aquarium to even UFO insiders, they do that plight 824 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: ha ha. But I'm telling you that's what he said. Yeah, 825 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't make this up. And it makes 826 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: a certain amount of sense if you believe the aviary designation, 827 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: which was most famously brought out. I believe in that 828 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight documentary where they had the guy hidden 829 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: in the shadows and he talked about the aviary. So 830 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, all we can ever say in things 831 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 1: like that is that's our experience. I will say, I 832 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 1: want a second what you said about Toby Hooper, though, 833 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: Toby Hooper, you had already known him, but I got 834 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: to know him as a human being and as a 835 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: director and as a decent man. You know, I had 836 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: met him as recently as I think I was in 837 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: can a few years ago before he passed away and 838 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,279 Speaker 1: got to hang out with him for a night. This 839 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: is a decent guy. 840 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 2: Down to earth, totally down earth. 841 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: He is not the kind of guy that says, let 842 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: me just float something. It's not true, but let me 843 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: just float something to somebody and see if they buy it. 844 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: There are people out there that do that. I mean, 845 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a rehabilitated journalist. I know that I've 846 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,280 Speaker 1: been lied to by professionals, is what I like to say. 847 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: But I think I'm a pretty good judge of human nature, 848 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: and I think you are too. Toby Hooper was a 849 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: decent guy. I never heard him say anything but the 850 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,240 Speaker 1: truth to somebody as he understood it. And that applied 851 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 1: to the set. If somebody's performance was no good, he 852 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't sugarcoat it. He just got we got it. We 853 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: gotta go again, you know, we gotta go again. 854 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 2: That that won't work. 855 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: I mean, and our lead Eric Close would confirm that 856 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: as well, that Toby never spared his feelings or anybody's feelings, 857 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,839 Speaker 1: not in a bad way, just a supremely honest way. 858 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: So I'm just going to underline three times that if 859 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: Toby Hooper told you that he wasn't blowing smoke, he 860 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: believed that to be true. And since it's a personal 861 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,439 Speaker 1: story about him talking to Steven Spielberg, who he did 862 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: know and worked for, I got to give it some credence. 863 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 864 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 1: Well, I think the last thing before we wrap this 865 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: up to think about which I find particularly interesting, and 866 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: it basically conforms with a lot of my experiences with 867 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: the phenomenon as an experiencer, and that is this idea 868 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 1: of the leap of faith. It's a key component of storytelling. 869 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: You see it all the time. But I think, look 870 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: at what Roy Neary had to do to get the truth. 871 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: He lost his job, he lost his family, he was 872 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: willing to lose his life, right, great scene in the 873 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: helicopter when he's pushed as far as he can, he's 874 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: been caught. He was so close to getting the truth. 875 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: He's got a gas mask on because they've put up 876 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: a whole fake quarantine to scare off the public, and 877 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: he alone takes the gas mask off because he believes 878 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: there's something else going on here, and he's willing to 879 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: die to find the truth. 880 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 2: Right. 881 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: That's a very powerful thing, and I think that's when 882 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 1: the phenomenon recognizes you. When you're at that state and 883 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,240 Speaker 1: you're willing to put everything on the line and take risks, 884 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: and there's something burning inside you, you inter something happens 885 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: to you at that time. I think we did it 886 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: with Lowngard Low and Guard wanted the truth about what 887 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: was going on. He sat and he talked with Betty 888 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 1: and Barney Hill. He believed them he was beaten up 889 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: and abducted by Majestic twelve. And when they said if 890 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: you want answers, you have to walk through the door 891 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: and join us, well, he had no idea that they 892 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't just kill him, right, right, And so he put 893 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,359 Speaker 1: everything on the line for the truth. And I think 894 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: that is a hallmark of not just great UFO storytelling 895 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,800 Speaker 1: or great storytelling in general, but what it takes the 896 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: key that unlocks the phenomenon. I don't want to leave 897 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: the impression that whether Spielberg was approached or not approached 898 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,239 Speaker 1: reflects on him in any way. Nor do I want 899 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: to leave an impression that whether he listened to them 900 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,919 Speaker 1: or didn't listen to him reflects on him in any way. 901 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 1: We didn't select ourselves, probably wouldn't have selected himself. He 902 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 1: seems like a very decent guy in my interactions on 903 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: almost every level that I've interacted with them, you know, personally, 904 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: So it's not out of the question. It's a good question. 905 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,280 Speaker 1: Not everything is equal. Project CIRPO is not as well 906 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: documented as other things. I would only leave us with 907 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,640 Speaker 1: this thought. In nineteen eighty two, when he was debuting 908 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: Et at the White House, Ronald Reagan after the movie said, 909 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: you know, there's only two people in this room that 910 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: knows exactly how true this is. So that's an odd 911 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: thing to say. Maybe it says more about Reagan than Spielberg, 912 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,880 Speaker 1: but there's no doubt that the number one person associated 913 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,839 Speaker 1: with UFOs and aliens in the film and television community 914 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: bar nounn is Steven Spielberg. That's why we talk about him. Yeah, 915 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: so obviously very interesting that Ronald Reagan made this quote. 916 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: This brings us all the way back to how Dark 917 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 1: Skies was born with the story I was told by 918 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,359 Speaker 1: someone in the Reagan administration right around this time period. Boy, 919 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,040 Speaker 1: we're just so full of teases. We get we got 920 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: to get going on all this stuff. Anyway, we want 921 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 1: to thank everybody for listening to us, because it's a 922 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,240 Speaker 1: conversation we're trying to have that we haven't heard too often. 923 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes you write a movie or a 924 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: book because you want to read it or see it 925 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,879 Speaker 1: and nobody else has done it. I think that's why 926 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 1: we're doing this podcast, and so thanks all for paying attention. 927 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,040 Speaker 2: Yes, thanks for listening, and Watch the Skies. 928 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: Watch the Skies. Soundland and Frequency is an iHeart podcast 929 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: produced by Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson 930 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: and for Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written 931 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser, and your hosts and 932 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: executive producers are Brice Abel, That's me and Brent Friedman. 933 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:13,600 Speaker 1: Watch the Skies.