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Speaker 1: Hi, This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch

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Speaker 1: It on the BNAF podcast. Today, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about corporate energy procurement and how renewable energy power purchase

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Speaker 1: agreements or PPAs for short, have been able to help

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Speaker 1: companies meet their sustainability targets. But we're also going to

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Speaker 1: discuss their limitations. How about the fact that even under

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Speaker 1: the best of circumstances, wind and solar are not able

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Speaker 1: to fully decarbonize the company's scope two emissions when we

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Speaker 1: think about it as around the clock and everywhere in

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Speaker 1: the world at a specific place. So what will it

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Speaker 1: take for twenty four seven carbon free energy? Well, that's

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Speaker 1: what Google's goal is by twenty thirty, So it's time

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Speaker 1: to get creative. And here to talk about Google's journey

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Speaker 1: with PPAs and how they plan to innovate with the

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Speaker 1: help of their energy suppliers is Caroline Golin. She's the

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Speaker 1: global head of Energy Market Development and Policy at Google.

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Speaker 1: Caroline was interviewed by Kyle Harrison, and he is head

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Speaker 1: of sustainability research here at bf NOW. As a reminder,

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Speaker 1: B and EF does not provide investment or strategy advice,

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Speaker 1: and we have a more complete disclaimer that's at the

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Speaker 1: very end of the show. But now let's listened to

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Speaker 1: Caroline and Kyle's conversation. Caroline, thanks for joining us today. Oh,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I'm really excited for the

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Speaker 1: conversation som and actually, I feel like in many ways,

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Speaker 1: I've been an unofficial member of Google's energy procurement team.

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Speaker 1: So I've been covering corporate procurement at BNF for many

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Speaker 1: years now, and I remember when companies like Google and

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Speaker 1: Apple and Amazon we're signing the first corporate ppa's five, six,

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Speaker 1: seven years ago, and it's really cool to see kind

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Speaker 1: of how far this space has evolved over time. So

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Speaker 1: maybe my first question for you, and starting from the top,

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Speaker 1: can you walk us through Google's history of clean energy

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Speaker 1: buying kind of how does that fit into the broader

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Speaker 1: sustainability strategy of Google as a whole. Yeah, I'd be

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Speaker 1: happy to And well, then I'm glad we're having a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a team reunion here with this podcast,

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Speaker 1: So you know, i'd start out with saying that sustainability

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Speaker 1: has really always been at the heart of Google's operations.

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Speaker 1: It's led by the employees. I mean, it's a very

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Speaker 1: important aspect to our employee culture. That's led by our customers.

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Speaker 1: It's a very important aspect to our customers, and it

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Speaker 1: has led you by our leadership. It is important across

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Speaker 1: the board, and at the center of that sustainability initiative

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Speaker 1: has really been a commitment to cleaning our operations. And

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Speaker 1: this has been something that I would say we're two

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Speaker 1: decades really in the making here. So in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, we had sort of set the goal for

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Speaker 1: our operations to be carbon neutral, and we really met

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Speaker 1: that goal largely by the use of offsets, which is

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Speaker 1: where many companies are today. As we evolved, we recognize

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Speaker 1: that we had a role to play in the energy

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Speaker 1: market and in the communities that we operated in, and

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Speaker 1: those communities that we operate in as usually where our

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Speaker 1: data centers are. So when we're talking about our operations,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about our data centers or our office buildings,

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Speaker 1: and those are global, right, I like to say, we

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Speaker 1: serve communities from Singapore to South Carolina. And so we

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Speaker 1: made the commitment then to run all of our operations

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Speaker 1: on one hundred percent renewable energy, and we did that

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Speaker 1: largely through an approach which is very common today of

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Speaker 1: global matching. So it's a bit of an accounting exercise,

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Speaker 1: but we took all of our electricity consumption across all

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Speaker 1: of our data centers and across all of our large

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Speaker 1: office buildings. We aggregated that up and then we said,

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Speaker 1: this is how much renewable energy we need to go

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Speaker 1: out and purchase in the market globally. And we did that,

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Speaker 1: and we were the first corporate to do that. Actually,

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Speaker 1: it's something that we take a lot of pride in

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Speaker 1: and it's something we've been doing year after year after

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Speaker 1: year after year. And what that meant really was that

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Speaker 1: where there were markets where we could go out and

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Speaker 1: sign PPAs for solar and win, we went out and

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Speaker 1: did that. Right, So you have markets in the United

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Speaker 1: States like MYSO and ERCOT where we could sign large

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Speaker 1: hundred megawatt two hundred megawatt wind and solar deals and

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Speaker 1: we aggregated all that up and that was equal to

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Speaker 1: our total electricity demand for all our data centers and

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Speaker 1: large office buildings across the globe. Huge, huge deal. The

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Speaker 1: biggest impact I think was that it sort of standardized

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Speaker 1: the corporate PPA and drove down the cost of wind

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Speaker 1: and solar globally. And we did this along with many

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Speaker 1: of our peers. You'll see this along many of the

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Speaker 1: tech company piers, Walmart, Microsoft like. In that sort of process,

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Speaker 1: we learned a lot right. The first thing we learned was, Wow,

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Speaker 1: there are only a few markets in the world where

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Speaker 1: we can really execute at this scale. That's a problem.

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Speaker 1: When I joined Google a little over four years ago,

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Speaker 1: we only had a handful of data centers in each

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Speaker 1: area of the world. As we grow, as the digital

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Speaker 1: economy grows, we're going to have data centers and office

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Speaker 1: buildings all over the world. Does it makes sense to

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Speaker 1: continue to only purchase in the markets that are available.

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Speaker 1: The other thing we realized was that by operating in

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Speaker 1: this sort of global annual match paradigm, there were many

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Speaker 1: hours of the day and in some cases complete data

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Speaker 1: centers that weren't actually running on any renewable energy at all,

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Speaker 1: and that a lot of the time we were still

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Speaker 1: very much reliant on fossil fuel. From a philosophical perspective,

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Speaker 1: the goal was to drive renewable energy to get off

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Speaker 1: fossil fuel, but that wasn't actually happening. So we had

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Speaker 1: to take a step back and really assess, well, what

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Speaker 1: are we trying to do here with our capital, with

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Speaker 1: our influence, with sort of our collective action, and we

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Speaker 1: settled on what we're really trying to do is decarbonize

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Speaker 1: the electricity grid. We want to decarbonize the electricity grid

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Speaker 1: because that is the lifeblood of our economy. That means

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Speaker 1: that our society can evolve in a clean way. It's

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Speaker 1: a stewardship towards our own operations, but it's also a

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Speaker 1: stewart ship to the communities that we operate in. So

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Speaker 1: how do we actually decarbonize the electricity system? Can we

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Speaker 1: do that with just this global matching approach? We came

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Speaker 1: to the opinion that we cannot do that with just

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Speaker 1: this global matching approach, and so we set the goal

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Speaker 1: of twenty four seven carbon free energy, And twenty four

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Speaker 1: seven carbon free energy is really the goal that we

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Speaker 1: will operate all of our operations, and again that's data

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Speaker 1: centers in large office buildings on completely carbon free energy

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Speaker 1: every hour of every day by twenty thirty. And the

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Speaker 1: other caveat there is that all the energy that we

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Speaker 1: will procure to meet that goal has to be generated

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Speaker 1: on the grids where we operate, right, so there is

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Speaker 1: no more buying in Iowa to match our needs in Singapore,

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Speaker 1: or buying in the Netherlands to match our needs in

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Speaker 1: South Carolina. Right, we have to now source all the

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Speaker 1: clean energy that is going to meet our operational needs

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Speaker 1: where we are, and it has to be every hour

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Speaker 1: of every day has to be met with carbon free energy.

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Speaker 1: And that is a huge, huge shift, and that's the

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Speaker 1: path we're on now. We like to call it our

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Speaker 1: moonshot goal. It's the most aggressive corporate goal out there.

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Speaker 1: But there are many other companies that are seeing this

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Speaker 1: and also joining in and making similar goals because we

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Speaker 1: all sort of have collectively realize what's the most impact

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Speaker 1: we can drive, and the most impact we can actually

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Speaker 1: drive is the fold carbonization of the grid. So let's

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Speaker 1: put our focus there. Yeah, I think you know that

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Speaker 1: keyword of impact is really important here, right, You hit

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Speaker 1: on a lot of really important points. There's talking about

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Speaker 1: Google strategy obviously creating that blueprint and trailblazing with that

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Speaker 1: power purchase agreement model and beingf we're tracking power purchase

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Speaker 1: agreement volumes globally and you saw our record thirty one

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Speaker 1: gigawatts of these deals signed last year alone and this

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Speaker 1: year it's going to be a nail writer, but we

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Speaker 1: could see another record year. But you're absolutely right when

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Speaker 1: you look at the kind of the geographic dispersion of

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Speaker 1: those deals, a lot of this activity is occurring where

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Speaker 1: clean energy is the cheapest. So you see a huge

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Speaker 1: glot of corporate power purchase agreements being signed in markets

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Speaker 1: like Texas right or markets like SPP like you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: where the wind blows a lot and wind powers is

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Speaker 1: very cheap. But if you actually look at the renewable

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Speaker 1: development queue in the mix of energy generation and some

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Speaker 1: of these markets, they already have a lot of renewables,

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Speaker 1: and so it's thinking a lot more about where can

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Speaker 1: you buy clean energy that makes the biggest impact. And

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Speaker 1: like you mentioned, there are a lot of markets around

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Speaker 1: Asia and parts of Eastern Europe in Sub Saharan Africa

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Speaker 1: that have a much heavier fossil fuel mix and clean

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Speaker 1: energy buying today is much less accessible for a corporate buyer.

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Speaker 1: I think you're totally right that this twenty four seven

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Speaker 1: carbon free strategy that you just outlined really is going

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Speaker 1: to open the door for a lot more companies to

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Speaker 1: start thinking this way. Maybe another question for you, would

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Speaker 1: you consider this an evolution of Google's clean energy strategy

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Speaker 1: or would you consider it more of a pivot away

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Speaker 1: from kind of that traditional PPA model. I think it's

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Speaker 1: an evolution. Just with any evolution, you have to sort

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Speaker 1: of learn from where you started and learn as you go.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when we sign the first corporate renewable PPA,

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Speaker 1: or when we set up the first solar program with

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Speaker 1: the utility in the United States, we did so with

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Speaker 1: the same goals that we have now, which is that

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Speaker 1: we want to drive impact, we want to decarbonize the grid.

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Speaker 1: But it was only really through that learning process of going, oh,

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Speaker 1: so you're not going to retire that coal plant even

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Speaker 1: though we added one hundred and fifty megawatts of wind. Okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: you're actually going to bring on natural gas to firm

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Speaker 1: that solar. Okay, that's not computing in our head, So

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Speaker 1: why is that not computing? And I think the crux

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Speaker 1: or sort of the inherent beauty I like to say

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Speaker 1: of our twenty four seventh goal is it means we

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Speaker 1: actually have to roll up our sleeves and start reforming

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Speaker 1: the regulations, the market structures, and the policies that have

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Speaker 1: guided our elect city system for the past hundred plus years.

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Speaker 1: This is something we didn't necessarily have to do in

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent are global matching space, because as you said,

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Speaker 1: where we could go to market, we went to market.

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Speaker 1: And we have a phenomenal procurement team, you know, and

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Speaker 1: they have worked their butts off for years signing all

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Speaker 1: these deals. But if we say no, no, no, you can't,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to do that anymore, then we have

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Speaker 1: to say we're going to have to change the markets

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Speaker 1: everywhere we operate. And market reform means regulatory reform, it

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Speaker 1: means policy reform. It means working with suppliers, It means

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Speaker 1: working with utilities and developers to become more creative, to

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Speaker 1: be more innovative, to say, okay, the structures that have

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Speaker 1: guided us for the past hundred years are insufficient for

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Speaker 1: the future, and so what are we going to do

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Speaker 1: to go faster, to be smarter, to get to that

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Speaker 1: clean energy transition. That's a much bigger undertaking. And so

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Speaker 1: why I think it's an evolution, it's because we've learned

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Speaker 1: and we've just grown in the way we think about things.

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Speaker 1: We still are meeting our one hundred percent renewable goal,

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Speaker 1: and all of that renewable energy that we're signing is

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Speaker 1: being counted and used towards our twenty four seven goal,

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Speaker 1: but now we're having to work on top of it,

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Speaker 1: and how do we meet that gap? So even if

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Speaker 1: we're at one hundred percent renewable, which is when we

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Speaker 1: started this goal, even when we were at one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent renewable, we were still only around sixty six percent

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Speaker 1: carbon free on an hourly basis. So what are we

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Speaker 1: doing about that other thirty to forty percent everywhere we are?

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Speaker 1: And that's where it's that evolution in thinking, and that

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Speaker 1: evolution in thinking is really fundamentally changing all the market structures. Right,

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Speaker 1: We'll still use ppa's for wind and solar, but we've

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Speaker 1: got to do more than that. And you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: there are other companies that are starting to do this

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Speaker 1: as well. Right, How sticky is this kind of carbon

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Speaker 1: free strategy? Are you seeing this catch on with a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies? Because, like you mentioned, right, Google was

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Speaker 1: the first company to achieve one renewable electricity matching on

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Speaker 1: an anual basis, and we of course have seen more

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Speaker 1: companies go out and do that. And the R one

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Speaker 1: hundred is growing. I think it has close to four

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Speaker 1: hundred members now, But a lot of these companies are

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Speaker 1: not at one percent renewable yet, So how many of

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Speaker 1: those companies are ready for this evolution as you called it.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to take the conversation a little broader and

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Speaker 1: not just talk about companies, because the way that I

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Speaker 1: look at this is twenty four seven is the end goal,

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Speaker 1: but it's also sort of the paradigm and the framework

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Speaker 1: by which we all collectively work. So whether or not

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Speaker 1: you've set a twenty four seven goal for your company,

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Speaker 1: it's really about are we using our collective action to

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Speaker 1: put in place the market structures, the products, the technologies

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Speaker 1: that we all know we're going to need for a

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Speaker 1: decarbonized grid. So last year I had the pleasure and

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Speaker 1: was really humbled to work with the UN to launch

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Speaker 1: the twenty four seven Carbon Free Energy Compact. And this

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Speaker 1: is compact that invites every single player in the energy

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Speaker 1: ecosystem to work together towards the full decarbonization of the grid.

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Speaker 1: The one thing about twenty four to seven is that

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Speaker 1: it is inclusive of other technologies. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: set a one hundred percent our goal right now or

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Speaker 1: any other goal, you are de facto excluding the next

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Speaker 1: generation technologies that everyone knows we're going to need to

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Speaker 1: fully roll off fossil fuel. This makes the tent a

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Speaker 1: lot bigger, and we need the tent bigger. And the

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Speaker 1: compact right now is populated with governments, companies, advocacy organizations, suppliers,

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Speaker 1: other large scale thought leaders on this. We have Iceland

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Speaker 1: in Scotland and a g as Microsoft New Core. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have a number of signatories here. They're all there

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Speaker 1: not necessarily because they've set a twenty four seven goal,

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Speaker 1: but because they believe that we need to change the

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Speaker 1: structure to get to a decarbonized it, and so that's

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Speaker 1: what they're committed to do. So one thing that I

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Speaker 1: love about twenty four seven is it is more inclusive.

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Speaker 1: And so I think for other companies or other organizations

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Speaker 1: that have other goals, that's part of their evolutionary process, right,

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Speaker 1: and as they work, they need to be cognizant and

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Speaker 1: work towards the baseline structures that we're all going to need.

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Speaker 1: I think that we get sometimes in a place where

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Speaker 1: we say, oh, this corporate goal versus that corporate goal,

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Speaker 1: or this corporate goal towards that corporate goal. As corporates,

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Speaker 1: we have a responsibility to the economy, to the communities

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Speaker 1: where we operate in to drive scaled impact so that

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Speaker 1: not just our businesses, but every single household has the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to run on clean energy. And if we do

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Speaker 1: that collectively, then we are moving towards the right trajectory.

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Speaker 1: And because this transition to clean energy, it's bigger than

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Speaker 1: any of us often talk about, like me, the economic

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Speaker 1: future of our generation or my children's generation. This is

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Speaker 1: how we are going to evolve as a society, and

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Speaker 1: so we need to really be collectively focused on society,

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Speaker 1: on the public good. That's why I love being in

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Speaker 1: the policy space, That's why I love being in the

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Speaker 1: market design space, because it's really about driving the public good.

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Speaker 1: I hesitate to say this corporate goal versus that corporate goal.

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Speaker 1: It's really about how are we working together to drive

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Speaker 1: that collective action so that everyone behind us and everyone

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Speaker 1: to the side of us also gets to realize a

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Speaker 1: clean future. I think that's a really smart way of

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, and you're absolutely right that benefits many

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Speaker 1: more parties than just corporate buyers. And I think something

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Speaker 1: else that you hit on there that was super interesting, right.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned flexible technologies You've mentioned policy, You've mentioned suppliers,

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Speaker 1: So I want to dive a little bit deeper now

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Speaker 1: into kind of the different factors that are really important

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Speaker 1: in executing a twenty four seven carbon strategy twenty carbon free.

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Speaker 1: And I know you said to kind of expand this

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Speaker 1: beyond the corporate buyer, but I did want to specifically

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Speaker 1: talk about corporate buyers and make an analogy here. And

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Speaker 1: I've been workshopping us for a little while, and what

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Speaker 1: better time to kind of unveil this analogy than a podcast.

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Speaker 1: Of course, to me, I think of clean energy buying,

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Speaker 1: especially from the corporate space, that the evolution of clean

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Speaker 1: energy buying, it reminds me a lot of the evolution

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Speaker 1: that you would see in a sport like baseball. And

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Speaker 1: we've got two Americans on the podcast here, so maybe

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Speaker 1: you'll pick up on some of this, but I'm happy

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Speaker 1: to kind of explain it more for a broader audience.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at the history of baseball, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people know that the most famous baseball player

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Speaker 1: ever his name is Babe Ruth. What made Babe Ruth

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Speaker 1: so famous was he would go out and he would

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Speaker 1: hit home runs. So he would hit the baseball outside

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Speaker 1: of the park, and it would get him and anyone

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Speaker 1: else that was on base a run, and that changed

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Speaker 1: the way the sport of baseball was played. Before Babe

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Speaker 1: Ruth came into the league, players intentionally wouldn't hit for power,

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Speaker 1: and they would intentionally hit it within the field. They

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Speaker 1: wouldn't hit home runs, and it was a much more

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Speaker 1: kind of strategic way of playing the game. And then

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Speaker 1: when Babe Bruth came in and started shattering all these

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Speaker 1: records around home runs, the sport of baseball changed fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: and all of the interests and all a wow factor

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Speaker 1: was going into hitting home runs. And to me, that

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Speaker 1: reminds me of the corporate energy space a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago. It was all about volume, right who could

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Speaker 1: sign the most power purchase agreements. But if you look

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Speaker 1: today kind of at in revising history and you look

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Speaker 1: at who were the greatest baseball players of all time,

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Speaker 1: you'll still get a lot of people that will say

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Speaker 1: Babe Ruth. Babe Ruth was a fantastic player all around.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot more focused now on what we

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Speaker 1: call a five tool baseball player. So it's not just

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Speaker 1: about hitting for power. It's not just about hitting home runs.

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Speaker 1: It's about getting on base more, it's about running the

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Speaker 1: basis faster, it's about fielding better, right, it's about a

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Speaker 1: better all around baseball player. And what that's doing is

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Speaker 1: it's shining a light on all these other players that

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Speaker 1: maybe used to not get as much attention as Babe

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Speaker 1: Ruth and now they are. And to me, it's very

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Speaker 1: similar to twenty four seven carbon free, right, And you

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Speaker 1: can kind of equate each of those tools to a

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Speaker 1: specific important factor that goes into a twenty four seven

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Speaker 1: carbon free strategy. So you can think about base running

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Speaker 1: as flexible generation, you can think about that supply side,

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Speaker 1: working with utilities as something like being a better fielder.

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Speaker 1: But then of course you do have something like hitting

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Speaker 1: for power, which is still a very important part of

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Speaker 1: the game, and buying clean energy, which is still a

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Speaker 1: very important part of a twenty four seven carbon free strategy.

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Speaker 1: So maybe kind of going through each of these five

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Speaker 1: tools one by one, one of the things that you

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Speaker 1: just mentioned and you've mentioned a few times on the

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Speaker 1: podcast today is the procurement of flexible technologies, and that's

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Speaker 1: obviously going to be a very important part of a

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Speaker 1: twenty four seven carbon free strategy. So it's buying geothermal,

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Speaker 1: it's buying nuclear that more closely resembled base load power,

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Speaker 1: but it's also looking at things like energy storage. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit more about what Google's

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Speaker 1: doing here? Yes? Happy too, And you're right. I like

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Speaker 1: your baseball analogy. I was a little nervous. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: get it at first, to be honest, but it is

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Speaker 1: pointing it right. Yes, it makes sense to me. So

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Speaker 1: I go back to what I was saying before. Right,

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Speaker 1: So we set this goal. We're one hundred percent renewable

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Speaker 1: on our balance sheet in terms of if you add

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Speaker 1: the left side and the right side of the equation up.

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Speaker 1: It worked. When we dug a little deeper we got

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Speaker 1: to the hourly level, we realized only sixty six percent

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Speaker 1: of the time, really we were running on clean energy.

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Speaker 1: That's unfortunate. All right, how do we actually think about

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Speaker 1: getting to one hundred percent running on clean energy? Will

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Speaker 1: solar and wind do it? Then? Answer is no, solar

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Speaker 1: and wind is not going to do it. Every single

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Speaker 1: research paper I've seen said solar and wind can get

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Speaker 1: us about seventy eighty percent of the goal of a

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Speaker 1: completely clean grid, and that sort of subject to what

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Speaker 1: we do on transmission, which if we get a chance

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Speaker 1: to talk about, I'd love to talk about. But what

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Speaker 1: is going to happen is that we are in a

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Speaker 1: state where we don't have that last piece of the

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Speaker 1: pie figured out. So if we actually want to get

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Speaker 1: that last piece of the pie figured out, we're going

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Speaker 1: to need to start investing now. So that means that

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Speaker 1: we have to think bigger than wind and solar, and

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Speaker 1: that's what we've been doing for the past coup beers,

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Speaker 1: and we have a phenomenal team led by my colleague Mode,

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Speaker 1: who is looking across the globe to say, what are

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Speaker 1: the technologies that we need to invest in now, And

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Speaker 1: we tend to look at sort that kilowat to megawat

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Speaker 1: space that have already shown their proof of concept at

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Speaker 1: the kilowat space and we've said, okay, we're going to

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Speaker 1: now try to scale you beyond that. What are the

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Speaker 1: technologies that we're going to need to fill those firm hours,

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Speaker 1: like you said, those firm baseload hours. And so we've

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Speaker 1: been investing across the globe in this One of the

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Speaker 1: most recent investments that we made was in Nevada where

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Speaker 1: we invested with a company called Fervo Energy, and this

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Speaker 1: was the first partnership for what we're calling always on

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Speaker 1: clean Energy for geothermal, and so if this is successful,

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Speaker 1: we will see the fruits of those labors to be

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Speaker 1: able to scale geothermal not only for us, but for

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Speaker 1: other customers. We've also taken this approach in PGM, where

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Speaker 1: we've invested in battery storage with the same idea where

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Speaker 1: we're actually looked to do it as a model not

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Speaker 1: just for us, but for others, and we did what

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Speaker 1: we called a clean Energy manager model there. And so

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Speaker 1: we're looking at this, We're looking at hydrogen, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at next generation advanced nuclear, we're looking at everything that's

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Speaker 1: on the board. The other thing that we're looking at

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Speaker 1: is how do we just not have to purchase a

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Speaker 1: kilowatt hour in the first place, So demand response, energy efficiency,

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Speaker 1: all of these become tools in your toolkit when you

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Speaker 1: are in a twenty four seven world. To me, it's

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Speaker 1: more creative and you get to sort of be the

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Speaker 1: wind behind the sales of the next technologies that we're

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Speaker 1: all going to need. And that's been really, really, really exciting,

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Speaker 1: and Mode's team has done an amazing job leading this,

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Speaker 1: and the goal is to get this to a point

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Speaker 1: where we can now get the markets and the policies

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Speaker 1: to be supportive of these next generation technologies and figure

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Speaker 1: out how to best utilize them in a world where

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Speaker 1: within ten years we're going to have zero price signals

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Speaker 1: in a renewable space. So it's an exciting time and

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Speaker 1: that key component of investing in these next generation technologies.

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Speaker 1: I'll say, like, if we don't use our capital now

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Speaker 1: to do it, they will not be available when we

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Speaker 1: get to these higher penetrations of renewable energy, and we

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Speaker 1: are going to be in a very very, very overbuilt

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Speaker 1: and over expensive system as a result. It's a very

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Speaker 1: good point. And speaking of that availability, in those markets

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Speaker 1: where those flexibil technologies are not necessarily available, there's obviously

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Speaker 1: the element where you can tap a utility or retailer

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Speaker 1: work with one of those companies to offer you more

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Speaker 1: reliable electricity as well. And I know Google and other

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Speaker 1: tech companies in the past have signed what we call

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Speaker 1: green tariffs with regulated utilities in the US, but of

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Speaker 1: course there's a slew of other retailers and utilities around

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Speaker 1: the world that offer sleeved programs where they will buy

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00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: an intermittent source of renewable energy, they'll firm it up

434
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: with either their portfolio or buying power from the wholesale market,

435
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: and they'll deliver that and firmed up blocks to Google

436
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: as well. So where do utilities fit into this? Retailers

437
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: how important are they to a twenty four seven carbon

438
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: free strategy? Oh? Well, utilities and retailers are incredibly important.

439
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: I mean, we can set the demand, but at the

440
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: end of the day, we are looking for our partners

441
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: on the other side to drive the creativity and the

442
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: innovation and deliver and we need to work together in

443
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: every situation. So from a utilities perspective, and I think

444
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: we have to be honest, especially in the United States.

445
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: And this is different obviously in Europe, but in the

446
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: United States, most utilities have been governed by a regulatory

447
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: process that hasn't changed substantially in the past sixty plus years.

448
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: And while we were really proud of the inaugural green

449
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: tariff program and large scale solar programs for corporate buyers,

450
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: it is something that exists on the margin. We are

451
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,239
Speaker 1: initiating these programs really with the idea that we're going

452
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: to continue to take a portion of whatever is the

453
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: projected generation mix for that utility, and then we're just

454
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: going to add solar or at best add solar and

455
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: wind on and sort of make the math work, as

456
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: opposed to taking it from a different posture, which is

457
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: to say the goal is to commoditize clean energy. The

458
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: goal is to roll off fossil fuels completely, which means

459
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: we have to have a very different approach to capacity valuation,

460
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: to ancillary service valuation, to reactive powerflow valuation, and to

461
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: energy valuation. And so that means deconstructing the regulatory paradigms

462
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: that have put power on our system and turn the

463
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: lights on in our homes for decades. And so it's

464
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: that deconstruction which is critical right now, and so Google

465
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 1: is playing a part in that and working with our

466
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: utilities and in multiple parts of the country right now,

467
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 1: we are in partnership with utilities to try to get

468
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: to that next level, that next generation tariff where you're

469
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: actually fully creating a power stack of clean energy, not

470
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: a power stack that is fossil fuel that is netted

471
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: out by an addition of renewable energy, but a full

472
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: power stack from capacity energy, ancillary and reserve that is

473
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: all clean, that's never been done before, and for a

474
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: utility to be able to do that and take on

475
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: that role and create tariffs around it will be a

476
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: game changer for customers because a tariff is something that

477
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: all customers can buy into, right whether or not you

478
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: have a procurement team like Google does. A tariff is

479
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: something that everyone can take on the supply side. It's

480
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: very similar. Our entire market and our entire system has

481
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: been based on a single source PPA structure. So corporate

482
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: goes out, they sign a large PPA for solar, they

483
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: sign a large PPA for wind, and then they add

484
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: them up together. Wonderful. That is really inefficient and also

485
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: I think derivative of what we actually want to do

486
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: moving forward. What we need to get to a point

487
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: with is where a customer, big or small, can go

488
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: out to the market and say, I want an eighty

489
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: percent carbon free energy score, I want a ninety percent

490
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: carbon free energy score. I want one hundred percent carbon

491
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: free energy score. I want you to go out to

492
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: the market, very innovative supplier, and figure out the technologies

493
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: that need to stack up to deliver that to me.

494
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: Here's my hourly footprint. You go figure it out. It

495
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: puts the innovation on the supplier to do that. It

496
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 1: a challenge is the market, and I think that's a

497
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: good posture. We need to be pushing each other and

498
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: going forward. And we just did this actually with AS

499
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: in Virginia, we did this exact same thing. We said,

500
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: here is our carbon free energy score today. We want

501
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: you to get it. Here. You go out and figure

502
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: out the technologies and how they're going to stack, and

503
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: we're going to work. And it was a back and

504
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: forth process, but at the end of the day, it

505
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: was much more efficient as a blueprint for how the

506
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: market really should work. So it's about innovation, it's about

507
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: working together, and it's about having that shared goal which

508
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: is not just to lay a renewable energy onto an

509
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: existence system, but to fundamentally change the way we stack

510
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: power so that we get to a clean system. Yeah,

511
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: it's a good thing that you have companies like on

512
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: g an As, like you mentioned as part of this

513
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: twenty four seven carbon hub or carbon free Hub, right,

514
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: so they're you know, you're actively workshopping with them on

515
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: these types of strategies. Maybe let's move on to the

516
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: third tool here and again another one that You've brought

517
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: up a bunch of times today which is policy, and

518
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: I should say, right, you mentioned before that Google historically

519
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: was only signing PPAs where PPAs were available, and I

520
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: do want to give credit to companies like Google and

521
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: a lot of other tech companies. There's a lot more

522
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: countries that offer a corporate power purchase agreement model than

523
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: there was a couple of years ago. You've seen big

524
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: developments of course in markets like Taiwan and markets like

525
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: Japan and South Korea as well, where signing a power

526
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: purchase agreement or just buying clean energy in general as

527
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: a corporate buyer is much more accessible than it was

528
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: a few years ago. But maybe let's open this discussion

529
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: up a little bit further. Of course, like you mentioned,

530
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: policy for twenty four seven, carbon free is is a

531
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: lot more elaborate and a lot more expansive. So can

532
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: you tell us about some of the work that Google's

533
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: been doing there? Yes, I'd love to. This is my wheelhouse,

534
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: this is where I sit most days. I said this before,

535
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: but I'll say it again, but one of the inherent

536
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: commitments in a twenty four seven goal is a commitment

537
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: to fundamentally change the markets and the policies and the

538
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: regulations which guide our electricity system. That's because there isn't

539
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: a market out there today that is built for a

540
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: carbon free electricity grit. There isn't one. The truth is

541
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: that our electricity systems globally are built because of and

542
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: in service of fossil fuels a namely natural gas. But

543
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: that's where we have come from and that's where we

544
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: continue to be, and I think we all need to

545
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: recognize that the commodity by which our electricity system runs

546
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: is natural gas. If we want our electricity system to

547
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: run on clean energy in full force, we have to

548
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: commoditize clean energy. The reason why we have commoditized natural

549
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: gas is because we created policies and regulations and infrastructure

550
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: to support that commodity. So if we want to run

551
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: on carbon for energy, we have to create the policies,

552
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: the regulations, and the infrastructures to commoditize clean energy. And

553
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: that is a fundamental difference from where we've been and

554
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: a refocus for everyone. Lee. In April of this year,

555
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: we released our first policy roadmap for twenty four seven

556
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: carbon free energy. And if my colleague Devon is listening,

557
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you again for your blood,

558
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: sweat and tears on this paper. And this was a

559
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: paper that we released because we wanted to put this

560
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: out there. We wanted to put the call to arms

561
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: out there, which is saying, if you really care about

562
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: decarbonizing the grid, it's not just about signing PPAs. It's

563
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: about getting involved in the policies that we need now

564
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: and we're going to need in the future so that

565
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: everyone can realize this goal. And we really lumped these

566
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: policies into three big buckets. The first one is market reform.

567
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: All of our price signals right now, you know this

568
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: better than anyone is run or correlated on the price

569
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: of natural gas, which is a fuel cost. What are

570
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: we going to do in a world where we have

571
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: eighty percent penetrations of renewable energy has zero marginal costs,

572
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: the market structure is today don't support it. Okay, so

573
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: the existing market structures don't support it. But then in

574
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: multiple areas of the world, and especially in the United States,

575
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: we don't even have markets where customers can access clean energy.

576
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: So we need to reform existing wholesale markets so that

577
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,239
Speaker 1: they're actually supportive of the commodity of clean energy, and

578
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: then we need to expand them so that customers can

579
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: reap the benefits of wholesale markets, which is to drive innovation,

580
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: drive down costs, and integrate at scale clean energy resources.

581
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: The second big bucket we have is investment in next

582
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: generation technology. We're putting our capital there. I just talked

583
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: about that with Fervo, but we need policies that support that,

584
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: and very encouraged recently by what we've seen in Europe

585
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: with fit for fifty five and what we've seen in

586
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: the US with the IRA And actually I would argue

587
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: that the capital game for renewables is there. It's been

588
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: there for quite some time now. We have a capital

589
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: game for next generation technologies, so we all need to

590
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: get on that train, right, We all need to be

591
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: investing there. And then the last bucket we really see

592
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: here is consumer empowerment. And so this gets at the

593
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: heart of a lot of what we're doing, which is

594
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, we want every corporate,

595
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: every customer, every buyer to be making the most informed

596
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: decision on where to deploy their capital that will have

597
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: the greatest amount of impact. You cannot do that if

598
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: you don't know where something is generating, when it's generating,

599
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: and what it's generating, and you cannot know that unless

600
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: you know the carbon footprint of your load. So to

601
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: empower consumers, we need policies that inform them. So we

602
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: need much more transparency in our regulations. We need to

603
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: be using things like teaks across the board that give

604
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: buyers the right price signals so that we actually invest

605
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: where we need clean energy, and we need transparency. I've

606
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: used this joke so many times, but I don't think

607
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: people realize that one of the most informative pieces of

608
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: paper on how utilities operate and utilities footprint in the

609
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: US is still uploaded in a PDF and sent to FIRTH.

610
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: And if you want to actually download it and get

611
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: anything out of it, you need to spend lots and

612
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: lots and lots of money on that type of data.

613
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 1: But that data needs to be open so that we

614
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: can empower customers so that they are all rowing in

615
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: the same direction. So those are three big buckets, and

616
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: building on that, we've been building coalitions globally. We've built

617
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: a number of coalitions in the US. We've built the

618
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: Carbon for Energy Compact. We just launched a recent partnership

619
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: with C forty, which is a major network of cities

620
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: to see these work on launching pilot programs to see

621
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: twenty four seven grow. This year we saw Paris in

622
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 1: London and Copenhagen as our inaugural pilot cities. You know,

623
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: as I said, it's not just about corporates, but it's

624
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: about everyone who's at the left and right of us,

625
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: in front, back of us to get this going. Yeah,

626
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: in many ways, it does seem like policy is kind

627
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: of the central component of this twenty four seven carbon

628
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: free strategy, and I think that point about transparency is

629
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: actually a really good segue into the next kind of

630
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: tool in a twenty four seven carbon free strategy. So

631
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: we've obviously seen a lot of really exciting developments, especially

632
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: in the EU, happening when it comes to the certification

633
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: of energy generation. Right, So you have the Guarantees of

634
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: Origin system in the EU, which is your renewable energy

635
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: certificate equivalent in Europe. But of course now there's proposals

636
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: and there's policy in place to expand that to every

637
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: type of generation technology. And so I wanted to talk

638
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: a little bit more just about what do we need

639
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: on the technology side to enable a twenty four seven

640
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: carbon free strategy. Part of this is obviously adapting on

641
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 1: the demand side. Google has done some really cool work

642
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: using Internet of Things and other technologies to change data

643
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: center activities so that they're using more energy intensive processes

644
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: at times when renewables are generating. And then of course

645
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: you have all these companies now that are trade are

646
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: creating sorry ourly renewable energy certificates. How important is this

647
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: kind of technology development area in this broader overall strategy.

648
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: I think it's hugely important, and I'm really glad we're

649
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: going to talk about it. So let's take it from

650
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 1: both sides. You mentioned teaks our time stamping of geos

651
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: in the EU, and this is something that's really important

652
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: for us right now and that you and really should

653
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: be important for anyone who's driving towards a decarbonized grid,

654
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: which we have an opportunity right now with the Renewable

655
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 1: Energy Directive drafts to really get time stamped geos in there.

656
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: And the importance of this is that when you attach

657
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: an hour and a location and a fuel source to

658
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: your geos, you start creating the price signals that investors

659
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: need to put their capital where the grid needs it,

660
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: and really the goal is to move every one towards

661
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: focusing on what the grid needs wear to accelerate decarbonization.

662
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: That's sort of why these types of registries, a teak registry,

663
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: a timestamp geo registry, they're really, really, really important because

664
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: we don't have those market signals right now and rex

665
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: are insufficient for creating the impact that we need, and

666
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: so we need to go farther. And so I think

667
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: if we get teaks deployed across the board, that will

668
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: sort of be a game changer and the way we

669
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: think about capital deployment because then you're sitting from a

670
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: financial perspective and you actually can see the value of

671
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: your investment not only for your footprint, but for the

672
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: overall grid, and that should have a larger value sign

673
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 1: with it. Right if you are decarbonizing in the hours

674
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: that are really hard to decarbonize in, that creates more value,

675
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: That creates more long term capital assurance for these next

676
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: generation technologies, in the same way that a long term

677
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: ppa for solar and wind created the capital assurance for

678
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 1: the developer market to go out and to finance these

679
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 1: new projects. And what we need to do is create

680
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: the revenue certainty for the hours that we're not creating

681
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: clean energy for. So how do we do that? We

682
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: have to create those price signals, So that's why teaks

683
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: are so important. On the other side you asked about really,

684
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: which was like the demand side. You know, what are

685
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: we doing from our load? This is something that is

686
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: really interesting that I think Google is doing and I

687
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: think it's interesting for data centers, but I think it's

688
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: actually more interesting for what it could mean for the

689
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: broader industrial economy. So we have a carbon compute system

690
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: and a clean compute system, which it basically is a

691
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: system that says we are going to pilot matching our load,

692
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: matching our demand with the carbon intensity of the grid,

693
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: and where we can shift load, we are going to

694
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: shift load so that our footprint is following along with

695
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: the footprint of the carbon intensity of the grid. Everyone

696
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: knows that demand response right now is based on the

697
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: price of the grid. If you're in Europe right now,

698
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: you're seeing this day in and day out, and we've

699
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: seen this in the US, which is that the signal

700
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: that customers are given is based on the marginal cost

701
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: of electricity generation. The signal moving forward, if we're going

702
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: to get to an eighty percent penetration of renewable system

703
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: where there is no marginal cost because there's no fuel

704
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: cost is going to have to change. So do we

705
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: scrap marginal cost altogether? No, I don't think we scrap

706
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: marginal costs altogether. We redefine marginal costs. So what is

707
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: marginal costs in a frankly zero fuel cost system. Marginal

708
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: cost means carbon intensity. Marginal cost means reserve, it means answllery,

709
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: it means transmission costs, it means all these other things.

710
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: But largely, what it's going to mean for buyers that

711
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: have and the industrial sector that have these huge goals

712
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: is when can I shift to make my load more clean?

713
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: And so the idea of the software that we've been

714
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: piloting is not only to make data centers follow along

715
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: with the carbon intensity of the grid, but to get

716
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: it out there across the entire industrial economy. The interesting

717
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: thing about data centers is that we don't have very

718
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: variable load. We're kind of always on. But I think

719
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: about general manufacturing that has that ability to shift up,

720
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: we would be able to get to a point where

721
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: you have the industrial policy sector merge with demand response

722
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: in a way that is really focused on creating a

723
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: CFEE per megawat score for your demand response signal as

724
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: opposed to a cost of gas per megawat score for

725
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: your demand response signal. And I think that builds innovation

726
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: around energy efficiency in the industrial sector, It builds innovation

727
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: around building structures about how we build our manufacturing, how

728
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: we design our parts, how we design transmission and industrial

729
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 1: parks in general. So it could really change the way

730
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: we think about this because you're getting out of just

731
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: this price signal to something much more impactful, this carbon signal. Absolutely,

732
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: and I think what that also does is it takes

733
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: some of the burden off of some of these other

734
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: areas that we've talked about today, right around flexible generation

735
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: and about the collaboration and the work that you do

736
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: with utilities. All right, So moving on now, I wanted

737
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: to just really quickly highlight that that fifth tool, right,

738
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: and of course in baseball, hitting home runs is still

739
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: very important. Aaron Judge on the New York Yankees just

740
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: set the record for home runs this past season, and

741
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: he just signed a massive new contract yesterday as a

742
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: matter of fact, to show how much, you know, people

743
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: still care about hitting home runs, and it's the same

744
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: in clean energy buying. Right. Of course, signing corporate PPAs

745
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: is still a very important part of the market, and

746
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: I want to make sure we gave it a little

747
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: bit of love on today's podcast. Where does a traditional

748
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: corporate PPA fit into Google strategy moving forward? Will you

749
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 1: still be signing them? We are still signing them today,

750
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: but we are signing them much faster and much more

751
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: simply than we were signing them before. The truth is

752
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: it's completely inefficient for a company like Google to spend

753
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: six months going back and forth on the terms of

754
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: a traditional PPA. We need to be able as an

755
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: industry to agree on a certain number of terms and

756
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 1: move forward and move quickly. And we are piloting and

757
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: looking at that right now. So I think traditional PPAs

758
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: will be there, and it will be there. As we

759
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: said in the beginning, how the market evolves. If we're

760
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: not in a very evolved market and the best we

761
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: can do today is a traditional corporate PPA, we will

762
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: do that, of course, but we are going to be

763
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: pushing everywhere we can to at the market to evolve.

764
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: We would be happy to do a traditional corporate PPA.

765
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: So I don't want to you know, as you say,

766
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: pooh pooh that model. We're using it where it is

767
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: the best and brightest that it's available, but we're always

768
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: pushing it to be better. And I think that this

769
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: is where we as an industry can really work together

770
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: and knowledge share because we have a lot of collective

771
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: experience around this and it's time to evolve. Yeah, I

772
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: think that's a very good point, and you're totally right

773
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: if you look at all the companies that are going

774
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: out and setting net zero targets or making one hundred

775
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: pledges for all those companies to go out and sign

776
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: bilateral over the counterpower purchase agreements that can, like you say,

777
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: take six months or a year to negotiate. It's not

778
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: sustainable and candidly, there's not enough bodies to go ahead

779
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: and do that for every company in the world. And

780
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: so I think that's a very smart way of looking

781
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: at it is just continuing to sign corporate PPAs, but

782
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: evolving how we go out and procure those contracts. So

783
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: I know we're running out of time here, Caroline, So

784
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of move on to the final

785
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: one or two questions that I have for you today.

786
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: How does the investor community interpret a twenty four seven

787
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: carbon free strategy. I know you that you mentioned that,

788
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: of course it benefits the broader grid, and it could

789
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: change the way that we think about the energy system

790
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: in general and how companies, of course buy energy as well.

791
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: But how are investors baking this into their strategies today?

792
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: Are they starting to consider these things? And maybe it's

793
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: is it from that risk angle where they're really focusing today. Yeah,

794
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: it's a great question, I would say, and I mean

795
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: I've said this before, which is that the clean energy

796
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 1: revolution is not necessarily a capital issue. I think we've

797
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: all lived in a world where politically, maybe we have

798
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: said that there isn't enough capital out there. There isn't

799
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: enough capital appetite to deploy renewable energy to finance next

800
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: generation technologies at the scale we would need them to be.

801
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: It's just too expensive. I think probably anyone who listens

802
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: to your podcast knows that is true in some areas

803
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: of our globe. But in the United States and in

804
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: Europe and increasingly in South America and even parts of Asia,

805
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: that's not the case. The capital is there. What the

806
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: capital is there for is, as you've said, is for

807
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: tried and true contracts that makes sense on their ballot sheet.

808
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: So I think Wall Street has been lining up for

809
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: a long time based on the tax incentives and the

810
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: tax structures that we've deployed in this country and in

811
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: others to get a guaranteed return. It's a good one,

812
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: and let's be thankful for that, right, Let's all take

813
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: a moment and say we're really glad that happened, and

814
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: be thankful for the tax incentives and the tax equity

815
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: that we've been able to monetize over the past decade

816
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: to really to make that capital market firm. And so

817
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: your question is really about, well, how do we evolve

818
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: this if we know it's not just wind and solar.

819
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: So one thing I'll say is that it's been really

820
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: encouraging to see where the EU and the US is

821
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: thinking about this, and we can see there's a lot

822
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: amount of public money right now going towards the deployment

823
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: of next generation technologies. There's a lot of money right

824
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: now in hydrogen right there's a lot of money right

825
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: now in battery storage, long duration storage. And thinking about

826
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: this where I would take your questions slightly differently, if

827
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: you'll give me the allowance is that is that there's

828
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: not a lot of money thinking about the infrastructure that

829
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: we are going to need to deploy all of this.

830
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: So I think the capital market knows how to finance

831
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 1: a big piece of steel in the ground. It's done

832
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: it for a long time. Honestly. If that piece of

833
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: steel is generating solar electrons or wind electrons or geothermal electrons,

834
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: the structure is largely there. I'm not saying it's cut

835
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: and paste. It's not cut and paste. And obviously you're

836
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: going to need companies like Google and other companies and

837
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: utilities to be those firm off takers. But the structure

838
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: is largely there. What the structure is not there for

839
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: is investing in monetary rising and securing off take for

840
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: the infrastructure we need in infrastructure a transmission and substations

841
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: and long HDVC lines and piping offshore wind from Ireland

842
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: to the rest of the UK, and wheeling solar in

843
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: Arizona to New England. And if I was to say

844
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: anything to the capital market right now, it's that there's

845
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: a lot of energy going on. Sorry pun intended, I guess, yeah,

846
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of energy right now going on about

847
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: getting clean energy onto the grid. And then there's a

848
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: lot of energy right now the regulatory bodies, whether it

849
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: be in the US or in Europe, around grid planning,

850
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: transmission planning, Q reform, interconnection reform. We have a lot

851
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: of capital going in into wind and solar in the US.

852
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 1: Even in PJM that just did this watershed docket, we're

853
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: not going to get anything interconnected before twenty twenty seven

854
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 1: that we signed today. That's the quickest something's going to happen.

855
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: So there's this huge backlog on the grid. And while

856
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: we have all these planning docks, and we have all

857
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: these process docks, which are great, I'm very excited for them.

858
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: We've lent our comments, we've intervened. We want to see

859
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: transmission planning, we want to see Q reform, we want

860
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: to see interconnection reform. We fundamentally need that if we're

861
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: going to get a single electron on the grid anytime

862
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: soon in this country. But if we don't figure out

863
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 1: how we're financing our infrastructure, and if we don't change

864
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: cost allocation of our infrastructure in this country and in Europe,

865
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: all of this capital behind clean energy really doesn't mean

866
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: much because it's going to have nowhere to go. We're

867
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: just going to continue to build these loops of transmission

868
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: lines in multiple areas of our country countries, as opposed

869
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: to actually investing in the broad backbone of a transmission

870
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: system that we're going to need to commoditize clean energy

871
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: in the way that gas pipelines and rail systems commoditized

872
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: coal natural gas. If that's not there, and if the

873
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: capital market doesn't get invested in that another pun, then

874
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: a lot of this is just going to stall. So

875
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: I would sort of take your question and say, if

876
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: we're really thinking about decarbonizing the grid, we have to

877
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: think about that infrastructure backbone. And that's where I'd like

878
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: to see the capital markets get more involved and work

879
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: with policymakers to figure out what's the best cost allocation here,

880
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,959
Speaker 1: what's the best investment strategy because this is a public good,

881
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: we need it, we fundamentally need it. Or everything we

882
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: just talked about before is you're sort of going to

883
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: sit on a shelf. Yeah, of course, No, that's a

884
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: very interesting spin. And then honestly, when I asked the question,

885
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: that's not the angle that I was thinking of it from.

886
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: And it's a fascinating perspective and maybe just to close

887
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: things out here, I think a lot of this, of

888
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: course comes down to spreading the word and you know,

889
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: of course these messages and talking about the importance of

890
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: transmission and getting that in front of as you mentioned,

891
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: investors and policymakers. That makes a world of difference. And

892
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: of course Google has done a great job and being

893
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: public and communicating publicly about its twenty four seven carbon

894
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: free strategy. And what we hope with this podcast is

895
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: that we can further spread the word about all the

896
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: good work you guys are doing. So maybe let's wrap

897
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: it up there, And just to say, Caroline, thanks so

898
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: much for joining us today. Fascinating to hear as always

899
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: what Google's been doing when it comes to clean energy procurement,

900
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: and I look forward to hearing about many interesting developments

901
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: in the future around the strategy. Oh well, thank you

902
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: for having me. This was a wonderful way to spend

903
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: my morning. Today's episode of Switched On was edited by

904
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: Gray Stoke Media. Bloomberg anyf is a service provided by

905
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,120
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906
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: nor should it be construed as investment advice. Investment recommendations,

907
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: or a recommendation as to an investment or other strategy

908
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,520
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909
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,520
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910
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,040
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00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,920
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