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Hi, 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.840 I'm Ebony Money and I'm Rick Schwartz and we're here 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.040 from the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, the global conservation 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.600 organization behind the world fame of San Diego Zoo and 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.919 Safari Park, and together, we're excited to announce the podcast 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.280 Amazing Wildlife. Here incredible stories about wildlife and the global 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.360 efforts to save it as we explore the connection between humans, 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.200 wildlife and the environment. Listen to Amazing Wildlife on the 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.400 I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:41.160 your podcasts. Have you ever tried to explain this world 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:46.480 to children? I have kids, two of them. Have you 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.840 ever sat down with a kid and tried to explain 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.559 why there are Nazis marching in the exact place where 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.920 you took them to the farmer's market and waited in 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.400 line for Papoosa's Have you ever tried to explain how 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:04.760 a person who lies, assaults, insults, grifts, fakes and hates 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.440 can be elected into one of the most powerful jobs 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.880 in the world. Have you ever tried to explain to 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.000 them why they should be good people, How they should 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.760 be good people in a world where there is so 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.440 much bad, where they see people who look like them 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.800 shot by police, murdered by vigilantes, run over at rallies 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.880 I have, And even though my whole job as a 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.799 writer involves being so called good with words, there are 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.560 no words good enough to explain why things are the 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.480 way they are and what we should do about it. 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:46.160 It's too much, it's too big, it's too overwhelming. Maybe 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.160 you don't have kids, maybe you don't have to make 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.880 this world makes sense to children. So I ask you, how, then, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.160 do you make sense of it to yourself? Do you hide? 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.840 Do you tell yourself that everything is fine? Do you 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.720 convince yourself that you're doing everything you can? And do 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.680 you make excuses for when you're not? I mean, do 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.800 you know what to do like today, like right now, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.600 in this moment, to help. Do you know how to 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:23.440 be a good person? Are you a good person? Because me, 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.799 I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure about any 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:35.000 of us. What does a good person in this world 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.440 even look like? I mean, what would they tell you 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.520 if you could find the time to sit down and 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:47.120 listen to them? Did you ever have a scary dream? 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.600 What did you do about it? There might have been 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.880 one good guy on television of all places. Did you 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.920 tell the people you love about it? The people who 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.440 love you? This old white guy in a zip up 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.800 cardigan and blue tennis shoes who played with puppets. When 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.840 I was a little boy and I had a scary dream, 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.120 sometimes I'd get some paper and crayons and I would 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.320 draw pictures about my dream. I mean, is this the 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.120 guy like, is this quiet dude staring into a camera 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.000 and talking slowly about crayons? Is this the guy who 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.960 can stand up to our very worst? And sometimes that 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.400 would help so much that I was able to get 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.679 back to sleep real soon. Mr Rogers made it seem 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.839 so easy, so casual, to know how you're feeling, to 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.040 be comfortable in your own skin. But it's not easy. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.359 It takes work, and that's actually what Mr rogers Neighborhood 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.880 was all about. He was showing us how to do 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.240 that work. Really helps to talk about the way you feel, 0:04:55.800 --> 0:05:01.680 because everybody has feelings all the time. In a time 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:08.240 like this, Fred Rogers has something we desperately need. I 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.640 think the real genius of Mr Rogers having done his 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:16.640 show and having it be targeted towards children is that 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:23.080 what he has done is created a template for just 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.920 how to recognize your feelings and know what it is, 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.920 which is basically how you get to all the other stuff. 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.960 It's how you grow. He taught us how to plant seeds. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.600 He taught us to plant seeds, seeds that were supposed 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.760 to blossom into healthy, safe, caring, loving feelings for ourselves 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.719 and then for all of our neighbors. And he he 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.840 had three decades on television to show us, to convince us, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.560 to guide us into making the kind of world he 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:57.080 dreamed of. And yet here we are in a world 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:04.760 that is well m It's not Mr Rogers neighborhood. I'm 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.679 Carvel Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.279 Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in partnership 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:19.359 with Transmitter Media. I'm a writer. I got my start 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.400 by writing about music for MTV and Pitchfork in places 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.320 like that. But for a few years I was also 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.359 the parenting advice columnist for Slate, and every week we 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:34.320 would read dozens of letters from desperate, frightened, weary parents 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.320 wondering how to raise good people, how to be good people. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.520 And so I think a lot about what stands in 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:48.120 the way for them for us. But the other thing 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:53.039 is I grew up as a complete TV nerd. I mean, 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.840 TV might have had more of an impact on how 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.800 I understand the world than any adult in my life. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.960 And so now that I am the adult, the parent, 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.440 even I find myself wondering what TV has to say 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.240 to my kids, to our kids, about what we can 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:16.360 do about the world we live in. And so that's 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.760 how I get to Fred Rogers, a guy who made 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:24.680 TV about this very question. You might have noticed there 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.520 is an explosion of Mr. Rogers nostalgia going around, but 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.520 I'm curious about it, Like, why now Fred has been 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.080 dead for almost twenty years and there are suddenly movies 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.560 and documentaries and books. Why is it that generations of 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.360 adults are all collectively having this nostalgia moment right now? 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.000 I was really interested in feelings as a kid because 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.080 nobody talked about feelings, but I seem to have so many. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.960 This is Ashley c Ford. She makes her living by 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.680 thinking deeply about how people feel and trying to communicate 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.680 something about how that impacts their inner lives and outer lives. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.440 I am a writer of essays, articles and a memoir, 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:15.520 and I am a Fred Rogers enthusiasts. What does that 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.800 mean of Fred Rogers enthusiast? Well, I think of being 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.560 an enthusiast as being a person who likes a thing 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:28.880 from many, many different angles. I remember being very very 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.720 little and like a nap time when I went to 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.960 a babysitter, she would put on Mr Rogers and I 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:39.600 was like, Yeah, this is not going to put me 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:44.920 to sleep. I'm fascinated, Like I loved Mr Rogers, and 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:45.960 so I was like, if you want to put me 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:47.880 to sleep, you better put on popa Beaver story Time 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.559 or something because Mr Rogers, ain't it, lady. He talking 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.080 about all kinds of stuff that I'm interested in. You know, 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.120 lots of kids have had that experience. I mean millions actually, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.080 but actually has talked about how as an adult she 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.000 found help from Mr Rogers. I feel like, at different 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:09.520 stages of my life, I have come to understand the 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.920 man and his impact. And I almost want to say 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.199 the genius of his empathy. Like we talk about genius 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.800 and so many capacities when it comes to other things 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.320 and things that we think of as you know, quote 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:27.160 unquote hard, but empathy is really hard. And talking to 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.280 people about empathy and getting people to understand empathy is 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:35.520 so hard. And this man was I believe a genius 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.840 at it and not just because of innate talent or inclination, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.920 but because he valued it and he committed to it 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.960 and he worked really hard at it. This I love 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:52.160 this idea of being a genius of empathy. And to 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.760 be a genius of of something like empathy feels like 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.200 a new idea because we tend to think of the 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:06.079 realm of feelings as not requiring work or clarity or discipline. 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.719 And problem, yeah, yeah, it is our problem. And I 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.600 want to ask you about that. I want to I mean, like, first, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.760 in your own experience, what makes empathy difficult? Like, what 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.480 do you find empathy difficult or something that requires work rather? 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:24.240 And if so, what makes empathy difficult? Empathy is difficult 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:31.960 because people don't have empathy for themselves. M let's talk 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:38.400 about empathy. That word is used everywhere today, so much 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.320 so that it seems to have lost its power, because 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.280 actually it's a pretty radical idea that we can so 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:50.400 closely identify with another person that we can understand their feelings. 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.840 A lot of us aren't even comfortable with our own 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:59.119 feelings anger, fear, sorrow, maybe even certain kinds of happiness. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.480 And if we're not comfortable with our feelings, then We're 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.640 not really comfortable with ourselves, are we? So then how 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.680 can we be comfortable with other people? When Ashley came 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.480 back to Mr. Rogers as an adult, she realized that 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:20.400 these were the questions he was grappling with. Yes, watching 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.280 the show did feel like being with an old, caring friend, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.480 but there was way more going on there than just 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:31.720 the warm and fuzzies. The first episode is my favorite 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.800 episode of Mr. Rogers, and I think what Mr Rogers 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:40.840 did was established something in that first episode when he 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.760 sings the song I like you as you are. I 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:51.480 like you as you are exactly and precisely. I think 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:56.080 you turned out nicely, and I like you as you are. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.280 I do the first time I saw the episode, though 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.840 I wasn't a kid it, I was an adult. I 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.600 had had a really, really tough day and I decided 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.200 to take a bubble bath and have a glass of 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.040 wine and just be in the tub and take care 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.560 of myself. But I didn't want to be like alone 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.400 with my thoughts, because you know when you have like 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.920 those sort of stressful, hard days that you're like, I 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.720 need to watch anything, I need to do anything, because 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.360 being in my head. My head is not a safe 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.160 space right now. And so I was like, oh, I'm 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.400 going to set up the computer. I'm just gonna play something. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.720 And I was like, what can I play that would 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.440 just be so gentle? What can I watch that would 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.520 be so gentle that it just it won't make right 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.720 now harder for me? And I just thought of Mr. Rogers, 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.560 clicked the first episode of Mr. Rogers, and I'm crying 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:50.800 in the bathtub. I like you, I like you. What 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.920 I felt like I had rediscovered a piece of myself, 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.600 like a part of myself, which happens as you age, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.000 like you start to think about all the things that 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:06.360 you've cast off for reasons that when you look back, 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.440 or like that was to fit into something else. And 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.160 I miss that thing and I want it back. And 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.720 I'm sitting there and I'm listening to this song I 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.480 Like You as you are, and I'm remembering, Holy sh it, 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.000 I used to like myself. I wouldn't want to change 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:28.800 you or even rearrange. I used to really really like 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.240 who I was, and I don't feel like that right now. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.040 And it was the beginning of trying to like myself again. 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:44.320 Like you, Yes, I like you, Oh you, I do 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:53.439 I you like you? As Yeah, are you like what 0:13:53.480 --> 0:14:12.120 we've done in here, We'll be right back. Teething can 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:13.920 be a real nightmare for your little ones. 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That first episode of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.600 aired nationally in nineteen sixty eight, and the world in 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:53.320 it felt probably a lot like the world does now, scary, chaotic, 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.600 and unspeakably violent. There was the war in Vietnam. Dr 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.480 Martin Luther King Jr's a set fascination and the protests 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.440 and uprisings that came after. Anger and confusion hung over 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.199 a lot of adults, and Fred's revolutionary move was to 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:14.679 recognize that their kids were probably feeling it too. The 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.520 very first week of the show when it premiered, had 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.359 to do with the ruler of the make believe Land, 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:26.560 King Friday the thirteenth, building a wall to keep out 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.760 people and ideas that he didn't want in his kingdom. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.040 And now that's creepy when you think about it. In 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.080 David being Cooley knows a big TV moment when he 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.119 sees one. He's watched a ton of them. He's been 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.439 a television critic for over forty years. And yeah, he 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.040 loves the Sopranos, and he loves Breaking Bad, and he 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.439 loves all the prestige television about people murdering one another 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.120 and dissolving bodies and acid or whatever. But he's also 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.439 fascinated with the first week of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood and 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.800 the things Fred Rogers is able to communicate in a 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.119 land of make believe. Lady Elaine has been up to 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.760 her tricks again, and she's moved the Eiffel Tower on 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.960 the wrong side of the castle, and the tree has 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.560 gone away from over here to the middle, and the 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.119 clock is over here in the fountain. Well, it's just 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.480 all mixed direct. She must be really upset. He's furious 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:25.119 about it, and he has established border guards in the 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.320 neighborhood make Believe. That sounds like a war. The people 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.280 in his kingdom. The other puppets, the other characters send 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.359 out balloons. Boy, do you ever look nifty with all 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:42.959 those blows over the wall? That are nice, supportive balloons 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.040 like you know, we like you, we want to get 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.560 to know you. And they decide a wall and a 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:54.919 barrier isn't a good thing. Now, this was, you know, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:04.800 and it's dealing with Vietnam um essentially, but it still resonates, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.639 I mean, much more than I'm comfortable with it. Resonating. 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.640 Vietnam was just one in what seemed like a laundry 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.600 list of dark and difficult news items in because earlier 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:22.399 that summer, Bobby Kennedy was shot and Fred Rogers asked 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:28.639 for a prime time special because he understood that even 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.360 if children were too young to understand who Bobby Kennedy 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.119 was or what had happened, they would feel the vibe 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.640 in their own homes about how upset their parents were, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.800 how upset uh they're older siblings were, and wanted to 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.600 talk about it. So in one sketch, he has Daniel 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.399 Stripe a tiger. Just a minute, I want to show you. 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:53.400 Simply asking Betty Aberlin, one of the human people who 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:59.800 visits in the neighborhood and it's a bloom off, could 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.399 you blew it up for you? Asked her to blow 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.359 up a balloon and then let the air out and 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:06.879 do it a few times. And he was concerned about 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:12.760 something this little, this little puppet. What about your air, 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.199 my my air inside me? Mm hmm. What if you 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.919 blow all your air out, then you won't have any left, 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:31.800 just like the balloon. But people aren't like balloons, Daniel. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:44.000 When we blow air out, we get some more back in. Oh, 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:51.159 what does assassination mean? And this is out of a 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.920 children's hand puppet. As far as you know that any 0:20:55.000 --> 0:21:04.119 other children shows address that topic? Yeah, no, and and 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:10.880 and I've looked. I just ask you in regardless of what, 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:16.520 uh the big news event is, can you imagine any 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:21.800 children's television program that's on right now coming up almost 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:28.600 with like a news special addressing the emotional consequences of it. 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:33.159 It doesn't exist. This special ran the evening after Bobby 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:39.720 Kennedy died. Fred Rogers wrote this scene overnight. He was 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.840 so tuned into his audience that he knew that this 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.840 was something that children and their families absolutely needed to hear. 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:52.080 Fred Rogers empathized with the kids who were feeling so 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.119 scared and confused, So he talked right to those kids, 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.960 and then he talked to their parents too, about how 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.560 to help with the children. The best thing in the 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:10.000 world is for your children to be included in your 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:18.240 family ways of coping with the problems that that present 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:25.399 themselves any time, but particularly now in this very difficult 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:31.400 time in our nation. Fred Rogers invented a neighborhood where 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:35.080 people got together to talk about the things that confused 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:39.320 them or scared them, and he used this place to 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.480 show his viewers what you have to do to work 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:47.280 through your emotions, and in doing that he was able 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:53.679 to communicate complex concepts, moral, even spiritual concepts, concepts that 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.080 even adults are still struggling to get a hold of. 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:01.840 Empathy is about like sort of finding the space between 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.520 the parts that connect, right, Like we know as humans 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:10.200 that we are connected to each other inextricably and irrevocably. 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:12.600 Like we know that because we have to live in 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:14.680 the world together and we have to rely on each other. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.000 I UM, in working on this project, I'm like really 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:23.199 struck with what seems to me an apparent paradox. I 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.399 think that this question of empathy feels so complicated for 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.040 some people because on the one hand, it's like, are 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:34.720 you saying we should have empathy for for rapists and 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:38.720 racists and violent people and white supremacists. I think that 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:41.480 makes people feel panicked about the idea of empathy, and 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:43.199 I want to explore that a little bit with you, Like, 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:47.480 how do you see those ideas working together? Well, let 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:52.760 me start here. I'll start by saying, um, and I 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:54.520 guess I'll just say whatever I say, and you guys 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.399 can decide whether or not that's not appropriate. UM. My 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:02.359 father has was in press and from the time I 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:09.320 was about oh six months old until I was almost thirty, 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.480 and my dad was I found out when I was 0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:15.480 fourteen years old that my dad was in prison for 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:19.560 sexual assault, that that's why he was there, and that 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:24.800 that's why he would be there for however long. And 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.679 my dad had also written me letters up until that 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.280 point my entire life. I mean, just so many letters. 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:31.879 You're the best girl in the world. I love you 0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:35.919 so much. You're my favorite girl. UM, I think you're amazing. 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.760 Never forget that your dad loves you. I'm thinking of 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:41.119 you all the time. Nothing is better than your smile, 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:44.520 you know, like all this kinds of stuff. And that 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.199 had been to be perfectly honest, like the basis of 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:50.199 my self esteem. And then to find out that this 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:54.480 was true about my father was really, really tough for me, 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:59.879 but it started the beginning of a real understanding the 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:06.360 complexity of humanity, and that a person can be one 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:10.200 person's hero and another person's worst nightmare and their monster 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.440 and the thing that was hiding in the dark, and 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:16.159 both of those things can be true about a person 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:19.160 right like it has to be like, there was no 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:24.240 there was no other way to see this. He has 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:27.880 both done a bad thing and he a terrible thing, 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:31.399 a monstrous thing, and he has also, you know, been 0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:34.840 the thing that up into this point has kept me 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:37.600 from feeling like I was alone in the world. And 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:41.320 the truth is we're connected to these people for better 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:45.720 or worse. We all want to be good, to be friendly, 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:49.440 to be neighbors, at least most of us. But when 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:54.320 we see other people acting well bad, we get hurt, 0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:59.200 we lose our own balance, we get mad. There are 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:05.080 a lot of reactions to the state of our country, 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:07.360 the state of the world, the state of society, all 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:09.320 those things that are a lot of reactions right now 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:14.280 that it is perfectly understandable for people to be this angry, 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:17.399 and so I don't really blame the people who are 0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.119 kind of hot headed and lose their minds, or you know, 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:24.640 like or or are so seems so consumed by their 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:28.200 anger that they're more angry than alive. Like. I don't 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:33.480 blame them, but I do always think, Man, who's going 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:36.639 to be there? And how are they going to deal 0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:42.680 when the anger stops being enough? Because it'll never be enough. 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:50.280 It will never, ever, ever, ever ever be enough. What 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:54.000 do you do with the man that you feel? When 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:58.879 you feel so mad you could bite, when the whole 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:06.080 wide world it seems, and nothing you do seems very 0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:09.880 What do you do with the man you feel? It's 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:14.280 a question that preoccupied Fred Rogers. He wrote a song 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.399 about it. He felt so strongly about it that he 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:18.760 recited the lyrics to that song in front of a 0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:25.639