1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you? 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: From house stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline, I 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: feel like today's question can you be friends with an ex? 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: Really takes us full circle because there's a there's a 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: nice little trajectory in our podcast library where we've asked 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: questions like can men and women be friends? What happens 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: in your brain during a breakup? Are rebound relationships healthy? 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: And now we're coming full circle background to can you 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: be friends with an X? And we're just leading our 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: listeners through life by the hand and maybe through our 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: own romantic uh trials and tribulations. Um. And since you 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: have such a brilliant audience out there, I decided that 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: before we came in to do this podcast, we should 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: take a listener pole and see what folks thought. And uh, 17 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: it's a little split. Okay. On Facebook, we've got folks 18 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: saying yes, you can definitely be friends, it just takes 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: a little time. Uh. For instance, Wren says, I'm really 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: good friends with more than one X. It helps more 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: when both parties move on and they are supportive of 22 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: the other's new relationship. I'm a photographer and a photographed 23 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: more than one ex boyfriend's weddings, so not only can 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: you be friends, you can also get a little cash 25 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: off of those exes. But then again, we also have 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: Amanda Ruth who says, I don't know, I've tried it 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: before and it didn't work out, but maybe it works 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: for other people. I don't know. Um, And then Joel 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: who just distinctly says nope. Yeah. Paul agrees with him 30 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: and just says no, and he says no, can't be done. 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: Other people say that it's like a zombie relationship. Lorena 32 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: says that you can manage to be friends, probably if 33 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: you were friends before the romantic relationship. However, it's never 34 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: the same, never the same, So it's a total zombie relationship. 35 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: And you can have all the factors of how long 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: did it last, how did it end, was there cheating? Um? Yeah, yeah, 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: lots of factors. Yeah, but let's let's take a step back, 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: um and think about why we even consider this issue 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: of being friends with an X to begin with. And 40 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: it might have to do with just how enormous a 41 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: role that love plays in our lives. Basically, we're all SAPs, 42 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: nostalgic SAPs. A lot of us are incredibly nostalgic. Because 43 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: Neil Ross conducted a study at Northwestern University is a 44 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: marketing professor. The study came out in March two thousand eleven, 45 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: and he found that romance is the most common source 46 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: of regret for American adults. Yeah, and of course there's 47 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: some other ones trailing behind, like oh, I don't know, family, education, career, money, parenting, 48 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: but romance is the big one. And he said that 49 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: basically it boils down demographics. Interesting women of them reported 50 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: romance regrets versus only of men. Yeah, it seems like 51 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: women kind of skewed the curve with this. Yeah, men 52 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: men tended to have more work oriented regrets and more 53 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: education regrets. Now, the single people he talked to um 54 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: in this phone survey, we're the most likely to have 55 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: romance regrets. Because I'm sure if you're sitting there, you know, 56 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: not dating anybody at the moment, you might be thinking 57 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: back like, oh, the one that got away, or I 58 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't have let that relationship is all. It can be 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: much easier to have romantic regrets when you're not romantic 60 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: with someone else. That's a little bit of a no brainer. Um. 61 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: And people who regretted events that they didn't act on 62 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: held onto that regret over a longer period compared to 63 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: people who went ahead and took the leap but it 64 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: didn't work out. Now. I also thought this was interesting though, 65 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: from a two thousand to Public Opinion Strategies National Survey 66 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: UMT of adults said that there was run relationship in 67 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: their past they wish they could continue, the one that 68 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: got away. And even though you know that Northwestern University 69 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: survey women were the one, uh, the women were the 70 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: ones who were all romantically regretting everything. But in this survey, 71 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: more than half of single men versus just a quarter 72 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: of single women were the ones who were sad about 73 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: the one that got away. So maybe these are just 74 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: different types of regrets. Maybe you're like, oh, I shouldn't 75 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: have done X Y Z, and this is more like, oh, 76 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: but Jimmy, Jimmy got away. Jimmy or in this case 77 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: it would be Susie, Susie got away, or or Jimmy 78 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: or Jimmy. I don't know, I don't know, uh, But 79 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: the point is, for all the Jimmy's and Susie's out there, everybody, 80 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of us have romantic regrets. So perhaps, 81 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: you know, friendship with an X is a way to 82 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: sort of temper those regrets maintain some kind of relationship. 83 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: But the question is is that friendship possible? And there 84 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: is not a ton of research on it, and a 85 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: lot of it is dated, but uh, overall, yes, the 86 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: answer is yes. Studies find that a lot of us 87 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: at least attempt to stay friends. Yeah, but there's a 88 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: lot of conditions on this. Oh yeah, you kind of 89 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: have to be getting something out of it. It has 90 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: to be worth it, and you can't well we'll get 91 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: into the whole, like the rules and regulation being friends 92 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: with your X. But you know you you can't be 93 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: basically hoping that you will get back together, otherwise I 94 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: won't be successful. Uh. An overview in the Social Psychology 95 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: I Newsletter sites study that found that romantic relationships that 96 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: no longer fulfill the romantic needs of the partners may 97 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: transform into friendship, but the resources exchanged must maintain value. 98 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: So you have to be getting something out of it, 99 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: whether it's free movie tickets or just a good friendship 100 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, and that makes sense because you know, 101 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: perhaps you need some kind of resource to motivate you 102 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: to get over the slight of breaking up. Um. There's 103 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: also this is dated, but nevertheless, in nineteen seventies six 104 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: study which found that friendship was more likely when the 105 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: breakup was mutual or male initiated, So maybe women have 106 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: an easier time perhaps bridging that friendship gap, um, if 107 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: they've been rejected. Nine nine study found that being friends 108 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: prior to romantic relationship was a significant predictor of post 109 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: break up friendship. Makes sense, you liked each other before 110 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: as platonic friends, or maybe not so platonic, and you 111 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: were just harboring secret plans to tell them that you 112 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: were in love with them at some point. But either way, 113 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: you know that that well. In two thousand to studies 114 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: sort of echoes the one from this is in the 115 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: general personal relationships, the idea of social exchange was covered. UH. 116 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: They surveyed college students and found the participants who received 117 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: more resources reported higher levels of friendship quality with their 118 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: ex Now, the barriers to friendship quality they found were 119 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: lack of support from your friends or families. If your 120 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: friends were like, stop it, don't be friends with this 121 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: person anymore. UM. Involvement in new relationships. So obviously you 122 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: know you don't want to like trip up the progress 123 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: that you're making with this new great person by holding 124 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: on to feelings for the old person and the use 125 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: of neglect as the disengagement strategy, i e. The slow fade. 126 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if you get slow faded on, yeah yeah, 127 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: you keep on fading out. Just man up or woman 128 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: up or whatever, don't. UM. Now, there was a study 129 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: published February two thousand twelve which I would call the 130 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: most questionable piece of It's not advice. You can't call 131 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: study finding an advice, but of course it's spun as 132 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 1: advice as the media is wont to do with any 133 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: kind of scientific abstract that's ever published. UM. And full disclosure, 134 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: I could not find the full text of this study, 135 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: so I'm going on the abstract. Unfortunately, so little slap 136 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: on my wrist if I'm misinterpreting anything, but from what 137 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: I can gather, study conducted by Ashley Mason out of 138 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: the University of Arizona found that when it comes to 139 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: people who have gone through a divorce, UH, those who 140 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: would have accepted the breakup fared better than those who didn't. 141 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: Makes total sense. For those who didn't accept it, making 142 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: a clean break didn't make them any happier than trying 143 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: to maintain a friendship also makes sense. Sometimes friendship feels 144 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: worse in a way because it's just like getting you know, 145 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: it's like getting runner up of um. But here we go. 146 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: Are you ready for this? Hit me? If they stayed 147 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: in touch with their X as, they were found to 148 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: be fearing much better if they kept having sex with 149 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: the X. So if you're feeling really glum about getting divorced, 150 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: this is not just a breakup. We're talking about getting 151 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: divorced if you keep having sex with your ex spouse 152 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: and keep getting those shots of oxytocin in your brain, 153 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: because that's what happens in a brain during an orgasm, 154 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: and it promotes feelings of bonding and happiness. Guess what 155 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: you'll feel her. Don't do that, people don't do don't 156 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: do that. I know. This is like that Meryl Street 157 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: movie that my mom watches over and over again. UM. 158 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: And researchers are like, why why does this happen? Because 159 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: your actions match your feelings, but they give a warning 160 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: of like, but watch out. Having sex with your ex 161 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: could prevent you from moving on. Yeah. Half of the 162 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: pain of breakups, as we've talked about in the podcast 163 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: so many times, has to do with chemicals in your 164 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: brain and going through withdrawals from those chemicals when the 165 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: other person is not around. If you continue consistently having 166 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 1: sex with your eggs, you are simply delaying the inevitable 167 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: most likely. I'm not trying to be old deb downer 168 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: over here, but let's be honest. You should just probably 169 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: just move on. And this ties into these narratives that 170 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: we often tell ourselves about why you know what, you 171 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: need to be friends with yours. You need to preserve 172 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: this relationship, you justify it. Yeah, And one of those 173 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: things is just you know, waiting, waiting it out as 174 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: a friend. Because if you can just hold back in 175 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: the friend zone, he or she will start to see 176 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: you again as the amazing cupcake that you are, and 177 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: we'll want you back and it's gonna feel so much better. 178 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: We will be wanted back into their arms. But that 179 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: could be forever. You could end up waiting forever. And 180 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: if this, if this happens, if you kind of hang 181 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: out on the friends. I'm waiting for your ex to, 182 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, notice you again romantically. You might just end 183 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: up being the hook up, you know, the insurance policy, like, 184 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: oh well, my ex is always going to be hanging around, 185 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: so I might as well just like keep my mind 186 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: off things, etcetera, etcetera. But on the flip side, don't 187 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: keep a person in the in the friend zone just 188 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: in case. This is put breakup. Put him in the 189 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: post breakup friend zone, just in case you know, this 190 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: whole breakup thing in your brain, like maybe you were 191 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: just going through something. They're an awesome person, you know, 192 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: why not be friends? You might see it might be 193 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: better down the road. Don't string somebody along. Not fair 194 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: to another person. Um, you know you don't want to 195 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: hurt him or her. That's a good reason to be friends, right, 196 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: you know you feel kind of sorry for the old 197 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: guy or gal again stringing someone along breakup suck. We 198 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: can't get around at people. I mean, it's one thing 199 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: if you genuinely want to be friends with your ex, 200 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: but to just be like, oh well, we'll just treat 201 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: this as a transition period, just a status change, if 202 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: you will. Yeah, it's complicated. It is complicated. Um, and 203 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: then and this is a tricky one right here, and 204 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: I I have experienced this myself. I've had other friends 205 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: offer the same line. Why should a breakup change that 206 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: we're best friends? We're best friends. He's my best friend, 207 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: she's my best friend. We gotta keep this friendship going. 208 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: We're besties. Come on, now, we have so much in common. 209 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: We were like made for each other in some way. 210 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: Maybe it's just not romantic. Nope, yeah, because you can't 211 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: go back to being best friends once there's been physical 212 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: intimacy or attraction. I mean, once you've seen each other naked. 213 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if you can 214 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: overcome that depending. Okay, well, so you've decided that you're 215 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: going to ignore everything that we've just told you and 216 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: everything that common sense dictates, and you're gonna go ahead 217 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: and be friends with your ex. And I gotta say 218 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: that I totally agree with his advice as someone who 219 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: has broken like almost all of these rules. Please this. Yeah, 220 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: so number one, give yourself a morning period, give your 221 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: ex a morning period. You have to give yourselves time 222 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: to get over it, you know, get over the hurt, 223 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: the anger, whatever, and the longer you were together, the 224 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: longer it will take. Yeah, common sense. If you've been 225 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: together for a full of years, it might take a 226 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,359 Speaker 1: couple of years. Yeah, exactly. They say to keep it platonic, 227 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: no monkey business, my friends, keep it platonic. Don't think 228 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: that you can just fall into that Meryl Streep trap 229 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: and hook up with your ex, because then you're going 230 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: to be in that weird like limbo gray area and 231 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: you might start asking yourself like, what did it mean? 232 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: It felt so good? Don't do it so yeah, jumping 233 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: off of what she just said, You definitely have to 234 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: set those clear emotional boundaries. Don't go to your ex 235 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: for help with your emotional issues and needs. And this 236 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: is the same thing. You know, people who were like 237 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: best friends with their with their partner, You can't go 238 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: to that person anymore, you know. You you might think, 239 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this funny thing happened. This is exactly 240 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: what I would tell him if he were here. No, nope, 241 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: or and it's and it's horrible because a lot of 242 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: times you do feel like, well, this is the person 243 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: who knows me better than any other person in the 244 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: entire world. Guess what you're gonna have to get to 245 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: know someone else really well to rely on other friends, 246 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: rely on your family. UM, and I really feel like 247 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: we're just we're being like the tough coaches today. UM. 248 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: Also seek out a love life. We've talked about it before. 249 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: Rebounding A little bit of rebound goes a long way 250 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: to getting you over things now in a healthy way. 251 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: You know. Be safe out there. Yeah, definitely try to 252 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: date other people. A friend of mine, uh, he and 253 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: his significant other broke up and he immediately launched back 254 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: into the dating pool. I mean not that he you know, 255 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: not that he necessarily felt it, but it's the whole 256 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: fake until you make it thing. You know, distract yourself, 257 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: meet new people, have new experiences that can maybe lessen 258 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: lessen the pain. And UM, if you do end up 259 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: building this friendship with an X, you know, steer keep 260 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: keep the focus on friendship. Don't sit there and try 261 00:15:53,280 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: to have analytical conversations about your relationship. Y'all have ends now, 262 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: keep it in the friend zone. And then if you 263 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: start to feel those feelings develop, I've been there. It happens, 264 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: and it happens so quickly. There's a sparkle in the eye. 265 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: You know what you need to back away yeah, just 266 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: just take a step back, evaluate and if you decide 267 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: you know what these feelings are there for both of us, 268 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: you better both be sure because you broke up for 269 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: a reason, so these take you know, take my advice. 270 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: It's very possible that those feelings could just be like residue, right, 271 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: relationship residue. And again, I know people who have broken 272 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: up on more than one occasion and gotten back together 273 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: there now happy and stable and whatnot. But this is 274 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: just these are consider these best practices, um. And I 275 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: also wanted to know what Dan Savage, relationship guru, hosts 276 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: of Savage Love and also the genius behind the Stranger 277 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: Sex column. I wanted to know what he recommends doing 278 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: post breakup, and he says, stay away. I was not 279 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: too surprised by this. He said, uh, yeah, you know, 280 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: you can be really good friends in like three years, 281 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: two and a half years, but you need that distance 282 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: from it, especially if you're on the receiving end of 283 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: a breakup. That person needs to be nowhere in sight 284 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: for a little while to cauterize that wound. As he 285 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: would say. Yeah, and he does touch on the fact 286 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: that you know, there are all these social pressures to 287 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: feel like if you're the dumpy to be all mature like, 288 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: oh well, it didn't get to me. I mean, you're 289 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: still a cool person even though you broke my freaking heart. 290 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: We can be friends, we can totally hang out. But no, no, don't, 291 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: don't try to pretend that you're not hurt. Just like, 292 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: go away for a while and not away from that 293 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: person and their Facebook posts, you know, leave it alone 294 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: for a while so that you can give yourself a 295 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: chance to recover. Because in a lot of ways, that 296 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: is the more mature tac to take than pretending that 297 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: some kind of loss does not exist. Um, and Facebook, 298 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: you just brought up. Oh man, like brickups have gotten 299 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: so much more complicated thanks to Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg. Um, listen, 300 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: I do. This is a personal piece of advice that 301 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: I have for people during this waiting period. Okay, block them, 302 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: block the person. You don't need to see that only 303 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: because you know what. A new study out of the 304 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: University of Western Ontario has found that Facebook makes stalkers 305 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: of us. All yeah, and it has to do with 306 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: your distressed level. And but it's an interesting chicken in 307 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: the egg kind of question. Chicken or the egg chicken 308 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: or the egg. Uh. They said that regardless of how 309 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: much you're actually on Facebook, your distress level changes based 310 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: on the surveillance you're doing on your ex. And then 311 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: they ask, but are you distressed because your cre been 312 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: on them or you're creeping on him because you're distressed? 313 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: Probably a bit of both. Um. Yeah. They found that 314 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: eighty percent of people's survey checked out their excess pages, 315 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: and the worst thing to see on the excess pages 316 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: the status update, the relationship status update, because eighty percent 317 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: of us will click on that link and look up 318 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: the new x's the excess new partner. Yeah, I've done it. 319 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: I've been there, I've done it. You want to see it. 320 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to see it, but then I do 321 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: because it's so easy, which is why I recommend you 322 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: just make the block. You don't have to befriend, but 323 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: you just block them. You can unblock at some point, 324 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: but just take that take that away from yourself. Well, 325 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: I I've hidden excess, but I've also done the thing 326 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: where I've like hidden the whole network because I'll hide 327 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: my ex and then I'll hide all of our mutual friends. 328 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: Because I don't really want to. I don't want to 329 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,239 Speaker 1: see his stuff. I don't want to see, you know, 330 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: if he's dating somebody new, and then I don't want 331 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: to see all the people like posting stuff to his wall, right, 332 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: So it's better just to like, out of sight, out 333 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: of mind. Yeah. L magazine Highly Scientific source Um talked 334 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: to some mental health professionals about this whole thing of 335 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: getting back in touch with x is um and psychologist 336 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: Christina Zampatella said getting back in touch with an ex 337 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: can prolong the grieving process unless you want to open 338 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: yourself up to the possibility of remaining stuck. I don't 339 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: think it's a great idea to spy on an X 340 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: because it does. You know, you start, you look at 341 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: a picture, then you look at like and then you 342 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: feel bad about yourself and what if what if she's cuter, 343 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: what if he's cuter, and all that stuff. Yeah. Therapist 344 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: James Hambrook said that by thinking about something over and over, 345 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, licking your wounds, you're legitimately feeling a little 346 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: bit of relief. It may cause anxiety, but for some 347 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: that anxiety is preferable to feeling angry, sad, loss, and 348 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: all those things they'd feel if that person was out 349 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: of their life, so you're you're not with the person anymore. 350 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: You're not even talking to the person anymore, but are 351 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: looking at their Facebook page every day, So in a way, 352 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: they're still kind of connected to you. Yeah, you're keeping 353 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: something open and in order to I think so far, 354 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: what we've found is in order to be friends with 355 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: an X, yeah, it depends on the conditions of the breakup, 356 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: but it also requires this separation period, you gotta get 357 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: back to yourself and that means not getting stuck in 358 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: the Facebook vortex, which were so many of us are 359 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: guilty of. I'm totally guilty of it. Um. And the 360 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: thing is too uh, you know, Caroline, you and I 361 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: some heterosexual ladies, and we might just be like making 362 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: a total mountain out of a mole hill because uh, 363 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: studies have found that gay and lesbian men and women 364 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: are a lot more likely to remain friends with former 365 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: sexual partners. Dance Savage again brings this up on this podcast, like, 366 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: I don't get the big deal at the straight people, 367 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: no one. It's like, you have a breakup and that 368 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: person has to be dead to you. Um. In the 369 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: Annual Review of Psychology in two thousand seven US. It's 370 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: I say, U c l a study focusing on gay 371 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: and lesbian relationships, and like I said, it found that 372 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: they are more likely to remain friends UM. Also, another 373 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: study found that gay and lesbian men and women were 374 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: more likely to agree that when a relationship is ending, 375 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: one of my biggest fears is that I will lose 376 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 1: the friendship and that it's important to remain friends with 377 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: someone with whom I've had a serious relationship. And they're 378 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: also more likely to report continued phone calls and social context. 379 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: So there's not really the same cutting off period. There's 380 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: not the same like three years. Don't even look at 381 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: the person, don't think about the person. We have so 382 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: much to learn, right, Well, the theory, the theory in 383 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: this this study is that about this it refers to 384 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: the small size of some gay and lesbian social networks, 385 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: the norms of particular gay and lesbian communities, and the 386 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: benefits that can accrue from transforming ties. And this goes 387 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: for everybody transforming ties with X lovers into friendships. And 388 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: that goes back to our first point about UM being 389 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: able to gain things from a friendship with someone, right 390 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: if it was a toxic relationship, you don't want to 391 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: continue that toxicity within a friendship. But if there were 392 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, mutual benefits in that person 393 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: really was an incredible support in your life, you can't 394 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: continue those to benefit from those resources in a friendship. 395 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: But you just have to tread lightly. Yeah, you just 396 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: you really have to be honest with yourself. You know, 397 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: if if you're like, no, no, things are fine, I 398 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: totally don't want to get back together with this person, 399 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: would be honest. He just knows me like no one 400 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: else knows me. And once you find yourself being sentimental 401 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: like that, I mean there there's just a lot of 402 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: red flags and it's scary. I mean, gosh, you go 403 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: through a breakup after you've been with somebody for a 404 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: long time, and the idea of going back out there 405 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: and doing it all over again with somebody new, it's 406 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: off putting. It's scary, and it's like do I even 407 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: want to try this? And so you do. You start 408 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: to think back and like, wow, that was really comfortable. Yeah, 409 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: that was the old couch equivalent of a relationship. I 410 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: want to go back to that. But you know what, um, 411 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: the fact about breakups, I think that we've learned is 412 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: that they hurt our brain. Our brains go through withdrawal. 413 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: We have it as all these emotional repercussions, and there 414 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: is really no shortcut to getting over it. I recommend 415 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: replacing it with a life skill. Yeah, my last really 416 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: big breakup, I learned to play the piano and I 417 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: started taking improv classes. Here you go, see we improved ourselves. 418 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: I don't really play so much anymore, but I guess 419 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: I'm busy, which is got to be busy, but also 420 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: give yourself time to heal. Don't don't pretend like nothing's wrong. 421 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: So can you be friends with the next eventually? Yeah? Eventually, 422 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: that's a good answer. Yeah, and tread with caution. Um 423 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: oh man, I can't wait for the stories we're gonna get. 424 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: Now it's time for us to ask you for all 425 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: of your stories about can you be friends with the 426 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: next guys? Is it easier you know if a girl 427 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: breaks up with you. That one study says that, you know, 428 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: if guys initiate their relationship the breakup, then you're more 429 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: likely to have a friendship. So does it? Is there 430 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: somehow a bigger burn if you get dumped? Uh? What 431 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: are your conditions for friendship. Have you made this friendship work? 432 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: Have you been gone through the whole cycles of being 433 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: friends and then the twinkle came back and now you're 434 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: married with a million babies and really happy. Have you 435 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: defied the odds? Let us know, mom. Stuff at Discovery 436 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send your letters, and 437 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: we have a couple here for you, starting out with 438 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: and story about summer camp and she mentions, uh, the 439 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: campfire girls camp which we mentioned of the podcast. Just 440 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: said mentioned like four times, and I'll say it again. 441 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: She writes, you mentioned that in nineteen ten Luther Gulick 442 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: founded a camp fire girls camp, but that it actually 443 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: was just the end of a very interesting history of 444 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: progressive ideas about youth play and physical fitness. Gulick is 445 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: actually most famous for his involvement in the invention of 446 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: basketball and for spreading the idea of gym class through 447 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: his involvement in the New York City public schools in 448 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds, and he was also involved in 449 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: the movement for spreading public parks. Luther Gulick sounds like 450 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: an awesome dude anyway. He founded Camp tim Annouse Camp 451 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: tim Annouse in eighteen eighties, seven in Connecticut, where it 452 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: was later moved to Maine as a place for boys 453 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: to be out of doors and to adventure. Obviously, there 454 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: is an emphasis on physical fitness as well. These ideas 455 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: carried over to a sister camp, Wahilo, which he founded 456 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen oh seven and expanded in nineteen ten. Wahelo maidens, 457 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: as they were called, were to be found living in 458 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: tense drawing, hiking, and canoeing, not practicing housekeeping, girls who 459 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: are expected to be out of doors all day and 460 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: to learn campcraft, and often went on week long hiking trips. 461 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: In fact, one of the traditions that still continues there 462 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: from the very beginning is teaching older girls how to 463 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: make fires without matches. I learned to do it there 464 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: when I was fourteen. Well that's really cool. I wish 465 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: I could do that on the whole. It was the 466 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: sort of place that was regarded as dangerously progressive. The 467 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: camp is still in existence and run by the same 468 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: family and you can check it out at Wahilo dot com. 469 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: So thanks and for sharing that story. And also, since 470 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: we spoke about life skills, you could make starting a 471 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: fire without a match your new life skills as long 472 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,959 Speaker 1: as it is you. The fire is not used to 473 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: burn down someone's house or anything like that. Good advice. 474 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. This email is from Jennifer about our Timber 475 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: Tantrums episode, and I have to say thank you Jennifer 476 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: for your subject line, which is temper tantra um a 477 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: k a ah hope smash okay. She writes, as the 478 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: parent of boys ages eleven and five, I've had two 479 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: rounds of tantrums, the youngest being the worst of the two. 480 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think it is the parents who don't 481 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: want to deal with the tantrum. If you follow the 482 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: ignor a method that is recommended when your kid is 483 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: freaking in the middle of target, you get the nastiest 484 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: looks on the face of the planet because you are 485 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: failing to quote unquote control your child. With the advent 486 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: of superstores, large grocery chains, shopping malls, et cetera, the 487 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: quote children should be seen and not heard adage is 488 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: no longer applicable. Kids will pitch fits in the store, 489 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: especially when there are toys and candy on every in 490 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: cap and at every register. Companies take advantage, in my opinion, 491 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: of parents wanting to not feel shame or embarrassment when 492 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: their child does have a tantrum. By making items readily 493 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: available to play kate children just to keep them quiet. 494 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: I can't say that people need to understand, but I 495 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: think that is asking a lot, perhaps maybe more realistical 496 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: as individually as by standards. Just offer the parent a 497 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: sympathetic smile, not a full on discourse about how your 498 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: kid used to do the same thing, and don't attract 499 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: any more attention to the ongoing tantrum. You'd be amazed 500 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: at how much better that can make an already stressed 501 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: parent feel. So thank you for the perspective, Jennifer, and 502 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: thanks of course to everyone who has written in moms 503 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can send 504 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: your letters about being friends or not friends with an X, 505 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: and you can also leave us a comment on Facebook, 506 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: Like us while you're there, and follow us on Twitter 507 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcast, and you can read all about 508 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,959 Speaker 1: what romance does to the brain and the body and 509 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: how to not be a crazy stocker on Facebook after 510 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: you go through a breakup. 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