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Speaker 1: Welcome new trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchertis.

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Speaker 1: We're in the middle of March Madness. Eric, It's just

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Speaker 1: like my favorite time of year, just because it's like

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Speaker 1: chaos and I love watching basketball college basketball sports bliss.

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Speaker 1: Not only is it great because every game is sudden death, right,

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Speaker 1: everybody cares so much. I love that it's better than

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Speaker 1: the regular season. But by the time the tournament's over,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of springtime and sunny out. It's the greatest

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Speaker 1: tournament for multiple reasons for me, and I'm a big

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Speaker 1: basketball fan. Two. So we have a special way to

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Speaker 1: celebrate the spirit of March Madness with E t f S.

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Speaker 1: We've gone to Bloomberg News reporters who cover E t

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Speaker 1: F S. We've asked them each to pick their favorite ticker,

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Speaker 1: eight different teams, eight different tickers, and we've seated them

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Speaker 1: based on assets under management, and we're going to have

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Speaker 1: a gigantic SmackDown on today's show. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: epic to determine the very best ticker of all. Before

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Speaker 1: you tune out, thinking this has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: invest thing, let me tell you two reasons this actually matters.

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Speaker 1: And what what you're gonna hear? First of all, marketing

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Speaker 1: and ETFs is huge. Of the flows go to two

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Speaker 1: or three companies black Rock, Vanguarden, State Street. That leaves

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty companies fighting over of your money.

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Speaker 1: And tickers is a huge marketing advantage if you have

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Speaker 1: a good one, it sticks out every category. Now it's

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Speaker 1: fifty t F s. So picking a ticker is big business.

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Speaker 1: It matters, and it can really help sell an e

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Speaker 1: t F. But it can also be a shiny object

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Speaker 1: that leads you to something you know once. So the

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Speaker 1: ticker shouldn't be all and I think we're gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: explore a lot of that. So so give us a

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Speaker 1: couple of examples of how it can help block. The

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Speaker 1: blockchain ETF that came out with the ticker bl okay

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Speaker 1: came out the same day as another blockchain ETF with

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Speaker 1: a ticker blcn, which is, let's admit it, a little

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Speaker 1: more boring. Block is just easy. You can say it,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's now. Yeah, that block has one seventy

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Speaker 1: million blc N give me another one. Fan versus p

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Speaker 1: w n D FAN is the Global wind Energy p

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Speaker 1: w n D is also a wind energy. Obviously Fan

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Speaker 1: kills and Fan has eighty eight million dollars and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: it's alive p w n D liquidated in the graveyard.

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Speaker 1: So literally worst case scenario, like the better chicker wins

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Speaker 1: the war. But a good ticker doesn't always save the

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Speaker 1: day absolutely, Like a ticker is like icing on the cake,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the cake. For example, here's some good

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Speaker 1: tickers where from the graveyard. These are E t F

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Speaker 1: that are liquidated, waste wst E for the waste management

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Speaker 1: ETF gone room for the car, et F that's gone,

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Speaker 1: bite restaurants, f A A for airlines, and puff for

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Speaker 1: sins as basically gambling in cigarette stocks gone. Why why

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Speaker 1: didn't those work? A lot of times it comes down

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Speaker 1: to timing. But like in the case of Careu Australia

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Speaker 1: small cap that was around when Australia has some good runs,

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Speaker 1: but it's just too niche. It sliced the it sliced

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Speaker 1: the onion too thinly, and no one cares. This episode

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Speaker 1: ticker madness. Okay, So joining us today, we have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different Bloomberg News reporters and we also have

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Speaker 1: an editor named David Papadopoulos, who's going to be the

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Speaker 1: judge deciding who advances. Now, I've already paid him off

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Speaker 1: so that I win this whole thing. But maybe you

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Speaker 1: guys have paid him off too. But David, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Thank you very much. And actually, Joel I,

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Speaker 1: I was greatly appreciative, and I was shocked that no

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Speaker 1: one else drew me a little cash. It's not too late.

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Speaker 1: He's probably still able to take bribes um, which is

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Speaker 1: actually really in the spirit of marsh madness with what's

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Speaker 1: actually been going on with the n C double A. Okay,

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Speaker 1: first matchup Move versus E M. T Y. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: throw it over to that bracket. Can you introduce yourselves

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Speaker 1: what you do and why you've picked the tickers that

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Speaker 1: you've picked. Okay, I'm Suzanne Whale. I picked Move, which

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Speaker 1: is the ticker for Van Eck Factor's Agro Business et F.

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Speaker 1: I picked because it's a classic, it's been around since

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven. It's the most evocative ticker out there.

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Speaker 1: You think, moo, you think, what do you think if

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Speaker 1: you think of a farm, you think of agri business.

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Speaker 1: That's it. That's the two seed. The seventh seed, Ben

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Speaker 1: Steve Hman, Yeah, yourself. My name is Ben Steve Berman.

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Speaker 1: I cover personal finance here and my pick is E

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Speaker 1: M T Y or empty, which is the pro shares

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Speaker 1: decline of the retail story TF. So basically, this is

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Speaker 1: what I love about it is it's funny, and also

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Speaker 1: it's this delightfully evil bet against main street retail in

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Speaker 1: the United States. This is a brand new ETF came

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Speaker 1: out in November, doesn't have very many assets so far.

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Speaker 1: But what I love is, first all that's funny, and

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Speaker 1: second of all that it's very evocative of this post

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Speaker 1: apocalyptic landscape that so many malls and shopping centers all

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Speaker 1: across this country you're turning into. And it's basically this

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Speaker 1: bet that all that gonna go and can continue to

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Speaker 1: go and get worse, and Amazon's gonna eat everybody's lunch.

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Speaker 1: I want to throw a little shade on this. I

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Speaker 1: want to know I use the word evocative, Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I think it's sort of you know, I've got a

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Speaker 1: new ticker for Ben's argument here, which is like l

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Speaker 1: A M A lamb. So I'm just throwing that out there.

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Speaker 1: So before I rule here, I gotta ask so Ben,

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Speaker 1: as I make that bet against right, and I bet

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Speaker 1: sort of the retail pocalypse tangibly, How do I? How

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Speaker 1: does this eat? How does it? What is it invest in?

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Speaker 1: How does that? So? It is? It uses a swap

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Speaker 1: and which means that it's it's basically shorting another index,

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Speaker 1: which is the bricks and mortar retail stores index, and

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Speaker 1: it's so that that has all the classics, Gap, Dick,

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Speaker 1: Sporting Goods, Dollar General, Ross Stores, like all these traditional

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Speaker 1: mainline retailers that are struggling. The other thing I love

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Speaker 1: about it is that, as Eric and Joe have talked

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Speaker 1: about on this show many times, betting on one of

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Speaker 1: these inverse ets is actually pretty dangerous strategy. So in

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Speaker 1: some ways, the empty that could be happening here is

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Speaker 1: not just the emptying of the retail stores. It could

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Speaker 1: be the emptying of the investment accounts of the people

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Speaker 1: who invest in this thing, because it could be a

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Speaker 1: really dangerous play. That's nice, Ben, that just went next level. Well,

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Speaker 1: she's saying before I rule here, do you do a

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Speaker 1: final any final words? Um, I'm just going with classic

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Speaker 1: and I'm going with like food, this is food, this

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Speaker 1: is global, this is huge. I'm being a positive, positive

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Speaker 1: force in the world supposed to be negativity. We've got,

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Speaker 1: We've got, we've got a ruling, and we have we

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Speaker 1: have our very first upset after Moon after Moon was

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Speaker 1: putting it on him early and it looked like a

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Speaker 1: total blowout. It looked like it was early on. It

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Speaker 1: was move twenty three. Empty seven Empty just kind of

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Speaker 1: kept wearing me down. Ultimately, what told me beyond the

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Speaker 1: great Empty name, is that it is just a huge

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Speaker 1: part of the of the American story, the investing story,

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Speaker 1: in the economy story, what empty is about, and that

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Speaker 1: that's opposed to Yeah, I suppose that's correct, that's post.

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Speaker 1: This is stunning. I'm shocked. You know. I frequently call

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Speaker 1: Moo the Mona Lisa of E T F tickers. It's perfect,

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Speaker 1: that usually makes the number one of everybody's list. But man,

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Speaker 1: empty is pretty good and made a good case I

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Speaker 1: should have paid off Papa Topolos. Okay, now we're gonna

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Speaker 1: go to Philadelphia to the Wells Fargo Center where Eric

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Speaker 1: is a three seed, and we kind of let him

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of an advantage, which he actually

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Speaker 1: has two tickers, Yin and Yang, which he's going to

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Speaker 1: talk about as a grouping and then with a six

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Speaker 1: seed Carolina Wilson with Tan ca. Yeah, Carolina Wilson, I

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Speaker 1: cover E t F s for the U S Stocks

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Speaker 1: team here, and I'm from Miami, Florida, where everyone and

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Speaker 1: their mother quite literally wants to be more tan. And

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Speaker 1: I think actually the floor area has the most tanning

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Speaker 1: salons and any other state in the country. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think I was pretty torn undering research on on spray

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Speaker 1: tans and fake tans versus what tan actually does. But no,

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Speaker 1: so I have the Guggenheim Solar Energy Index e t F.

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Speaker 1: And since the whole point of this is to defend

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Speaker 1: the importance of a ticker, Tan has already undergone an

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Speaker 1: easy peasy stress test scenario for this, and Eric has

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Speaker 1: Actually this is from one of your handy dandy Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: So two solar ETFs launched about ten years ago, within

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Speaker 1: about a week of each other. So Tan was one.

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Speaker 1: What a great taker. And kWt I think it's like

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Speaker 1: for kill a lot. But do you want to guess

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Speaker 1: where most of the assets on volume one too? And Dan,

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Speaker 1: but I'm talking about Tan raking in close to four

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in assets and kWt didn't even manage

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Speaker 1: to get much more than fifteen million dollars. So if

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Speaker 1: you don't want to believe me, I mean you could

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Speaker 1: follow the money. You've done your research, alright, Eric, what

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Speaker 1: do you got? I picked UH to leverage ETFs triple

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Speaker 1: leveraged China Yin and Yang the Direction Daily Foot see

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Speaker 1: China Bull three x shares and the Bear three x shares.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I picked these is because who doesn't

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Speaker 1: love the Yin yang symbol. I mean, it's basically thousands

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Speaker 1: of years old. It's a from Chinese philosophy, which is

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Speaker 1: perfect because here you're betting on either bullish China or

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Speaker 1: barish China, right, and it's it's one of the rare

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Speaker 1: ts where you don't even need to know the name.

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Speaker 1: Really you know what's going on there. I mean you

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Speaker 1: probably should because it's leveraged, and that adds a whole

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Speaker 1: another wrinkle. But I think it's a good ticker, especially

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Speaker 1: because when you have leverage going one way and the other,

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Speaker 1: it's real nice to have two things that appear to

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Speaker 1: be opposite, and I think this one nails it. And

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Speaker 1: you know, when you go back, look, the balance of

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Speaker 1: the universe is sort of contained in the Yin yang symbol,

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Speaker 1: and to me, that's sort of the leverage et F area.

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Speaker 1: You've got, you know, equal number going long, equal number

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Speaker 1: going short. But unfortunately they all don't bounce out. They

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Speaker 1: do lose money over time. So as we've talked about

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Speaker 1: many times their trading tools. But in our traffic light system,

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Speaker 1: this is a hard red light. But that doesn't take

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Speaker 1: away from the fact that it's just a killer ticker.

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Speaker 1: But just a little dig on tan. I think tan

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Speaker 1: is what you get. In fact, I think you get

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Speaker 1: burnt when you hold tan susception. But but the investors

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Speaker 1: of that get a nice juicy yield because since those

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Speaker 1: solar stocks are so hated, they are really like that

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Speaker 1: they're required for shorts, and so this thing brings in

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Speaker 1: some extra cash because of its like aggressive securities crowd.

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Speaker 1: The crowd is not even agreement. I am literally surrounded

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Speaker 1: by e T F nerds. Yeah, except for the Greek,

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Speaker 1: except for the job um. So we have a ruling.

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Speaker 1: We have a ruling, and and what is ultimately it

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Speaker 1: was also it was a close game here, but ultimately

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Speaker 1: sometimes the higher seed wins, and the higher seed despite

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Speaker 1: the whole thing being a touch convoluted. Frankly, you know,

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Speaker 1: triple leverage, the multiple tickers, the higher seed wins out.

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Speaker 1: Carolina did give up a good fight, ultimately a touch

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Speaker 1: too much stick on Florida. I only want to hear

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Speaker 1: so much about Florida, just as you prepare for for

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Speaker 1: next time around. But I did like the I did

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Speaker 1: like to fight. And also the fact that he pulled

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Speaker 1: out that plunge on you late. That wasn't helpful. I'm

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Speaker 1: by the way, why do people are to eat any bits?

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't you need them more of? Not enough? It's all

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Speaker 1: right Brackett too. We've got Danny Burger in London with

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Speaker 1: her ticker this is a one seed s m h.

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Speaker 1: And she's going against Lukawa at an eighth seed with

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Speaker 1: a ticker boon. Danny, Who are you? What do you do?

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Speaker 1: What's your ticker? I am a cross asset reporter. I

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Speaker 1: besides reporting on cross asset, I also eat a lot

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Speaker 1: of snacks out of the London pantry. I consider that

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Speaker 1: my profession you're joining. I am based in London, yes indeed,

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Speaker 1: but as you can tell from my accent, I come

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Speaker 1: from New York, so I I am hip with the

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Speaker 1: US based tickers. For some reason, the tickers aren't as

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Speaker 1: exciting in Europe, so I did go with a U

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Speaker 1: S one this time around. And why why SMH? Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I want to take issue with the

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Speaker 1: fact that I'm a one seed this. I think I'm

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Speaker 1: coming here as the underdog because s m H was

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Speaker 1: not intended to be a fun ticker. This is the

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Speaker 1: Van Eck vector's semiconductor e t F. And the reason

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Speaker 1: SMH is so brilliant is because it's not gimmicky, but

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Speaker 1: still it is fresh. It is new. S MH, for

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Speaker 1: those who don't know, is internet lingo for shaking my head.

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Speaker 1: And there's no way that Van Eck decided when they

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Speaker 1: made s MH that they wanted a ticker that was

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Speaker 1: shaking my head. Yeah, but you know one point three

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Speaker 1: billion and sets. Okay, yeah, But the reason I love

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Speaker 1: this so much is that every single time this thing

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Speaker 1: sells off, they're outflows. You can say, s MH a

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Speaker 1: billion from this fund is awesome. I love how like

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Speaker 1: accidentally perfect this is. Well. Vadek is the same company

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Speaker 1: that has a ticker crack the reserve for the triple

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Speaker 1: leverage junior goal miners, but it's actually the some sort

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Speaker 1: of like oil type ETF. I've heard enough from the

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Speaker 1: from London. Give me the real h down. I want

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Speaker 1: to hear what they have to say. All right, lu

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Speaker 1: Kawa Boone. Al Right, I'm Luka I am also a

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Speaker 1: Crosshasset reporter and as you will be able to tell

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Speaker 1: at some point from my accent, originally from Canada. But

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Speaker 1: you know again before starting to extol the virtues of Boone,

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Speaker 1: and you know that is the n Y S. Pickens

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Speaker 1: oil response e t F A first really again, like

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Speaker 1: Danny over there, like to question the wisdom of both

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Speaker 1: Danny and whoever put these tickers together. The number one

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Speaker 1: rank is going to a product that's an abbreviation for

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Speaker 1: a negative form of non verbal communication, coming about from

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Speaker 1: what millennial do when they're too lazy to spell things.

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Speaker 1: When I look at my portfolio, the last thing I

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Speaker 1: want to do is think shaking my head. Last thing

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Speaker 1: like this terrible, terrible branding, terrible advertising. Danny makes the

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Speaker 1: case against it better than I ever could. But it's

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Speaker 1: hard for like this octogenary in this multi multi, multi

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Speaker 1: multi millionaira wildcat raider turned oil tycoon could ever be

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Speaker 1: considered an underdog or the new kid on the block.

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Speaker 1: But that's the case with Boone. This e t F

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Speaker 1: is it's brand new, it's got very little in assets.

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Speaker 1: But what it is is it's basically it's a reflection

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Speaker 1: of the most defining macro trend, probably since the financial crisis,

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Speaker 1: and that's the rise of U S Energy. Ta Boon,

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Speaker 1: along with his lieutenants who helped formulate this Equal Weight Fund,

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Speaker 1: wants you to go in all in on the US

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Speaker 1: energy renaissance. We got things like I'll away in there.

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Speaker 1: You've got things like cutie Brands, First Solar. But inasmuch

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Speaker 1: as this is kind of, you know, an energy and

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Speaker 1: an energy link to play, I think the timing is

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Speaker 1: also pretty darn good for Boone. Right now, the relative

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Speaker 1: performance of energy stocks versus the spires has trailed and

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Speaker 1: lagged the oil price by the most on record. So

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Speaker 1: you know, at some point we've got to be playing

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Speaker 1: catch up, and I think Boone is the way to

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Speaker 1: catch up. And you know, some e t F providers

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Speaker 1: they want to have their name on the ice of

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Speaker 1: the Madison Square Garden. Like Spider T. Boon Pickens, he

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Speaker 1: wants his name on the front of the stadium both

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Speaker 1: his name and his company's name. So if you've got

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Speaker 1: some aspiration, I think you're going. Here's the thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't need a rebottle period. I've got I've got to

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Speaker 1: I've got a ruling. By the way, eight seed coming

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Speaker 1: out thick. Yeah, you gotta lay it all up. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you're gonna have for leader rounds, but

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Speaker 1: it's like eight seeds showing up. That's all I got.

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Speaker 1: Vermont over here. Yeah, No, the H doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: do in this case. Worry about later rounds because H's

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Speaker 1: got knocked out. I'm gonna say this so so, Luke,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. I love the energy and the firepower,

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Speaker 1: and and I think as you come back to this

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Speaker 1: next year, you know you're gonna do well. But all

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, what does he in here?

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Speaker 1: Is boon is It's just it's just ultimate, it's just

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Speaker 1: too scrawny. It's just I can't two and a half million.

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Speaker 1: It's I just I just can't. I'm not Feelish's back

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Speaker 1: to back La. He's still fighting. He's still and one one.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna fit in London, London. You survived in advance,

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Speaker 1: but you gotta bring a little more fire that it

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Speaker 1: was sleeping. It was leep, I'm not you know, if

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Speaker 1: ultimately Boone didn't do itself in with its scrawniness, that

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Speaker 1: you would have gotten knocked out. You gotta bring a little,

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Speaker 1: a little something more for the next round we have.

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Speaker 1: We have Joel is the what seed? Jel, I'm a

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Speaker 1: four seed, you're a four seed, and we have Rachel

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Speaker 1: Evans who is a five five. Oh, so this is

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Speaker 1: a good one. This is that four five matchup. Anybody

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Speaker 1: could win here. Joel is coming at us with the

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Speaker 1: ticker would, and Rachel has the ticker she. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start with the four seed Joel, go ahead, all right.

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Speaker 1: Wood is the I Shares Global Timber four Street et F.

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Speaker 1: I picked this one because I'm an Oregonian. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: back when the Ducks won their only n C Double

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Speaker 1: A title, it was all about the big guys from Oregon, right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm picking the big trees. Going with the Wood.

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Speaker 1: This is a thematic et F, which is one of

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Speaker 1: the things that Eric and I often get to talk

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Speaker 1: about it on the show because they're in vogue a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Uh. This has been crushing it up over

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Speaker 1: the last year. It's got companies that are not only

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Speaker 1: US and North American. You got a little bit of

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Speaker 1: Canadian in there, You've got some Brazil you also got

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Speaker 1: some other global stuff. So I like that it's diversified regionally.

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Speaker 1: And then what's been crushing it has been the fact

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Speaker 1: that e commerce has been buying up everything paper. Right,

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Speaker 1: You've got all these Amazon Prime boxes. You need cardboard

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Speaker 1: for that. So I think it's a strong play. I

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Speaker 1: will say that I don't like this head to head magic.

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Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm I'm really scared of this, but I've

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Speaker 1: made my case all right. Well, and so Rachel, just

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Speaker 1: a little bit who you are and also the ticker

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Speaker 1: that you brought and why you did it. So my

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Speaker 1: name is Rachel Evans. I'm an E t F reporter

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Speaker 1: based here in New York, though we're a very international

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Speaker 1: bunch today as I'm from the UK originally. So I've

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Speaker 1: come to you guys with SHE, which is the Spider

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Speaker 1: s s G a Gender Diversity Index e TF SHE.

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Speaker 1: Now what that E t F does is it invests

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Speaker 1: in companies that really have a positive attitude towards getting

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Speaker 1: women onto boards, getting women into executive positions. And having

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Speaker 1: women CEOs, chairs, other executives and directors. The reason I

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Speaker 1: chose this ticker is because for me, a ticker should

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Speaker 1: stick in the mind, should be simple, it should be

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Speaker 1: evocative and tell you what the fund does, but it

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Speaker 1: should also be memorable. Now this is where for for me,

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Speaker 1: she really stands out, partly because of my English heritage. Right,

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Speaker 1: so growing up in the nine nineties and the UK,

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Speaker 1: notting Hill was a massive movie, and the end of

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Speaker 1: the credits notting Hill you have Elvis Costello doing a

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Speaker 1: great version of She by Charles Asnivor. Every time I

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Speaker 1: look up this ticker on the terminal, I sing she

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Speaker 1: in my head and sometimes occasionally out loud as well.

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Speaker 1: So for me, can you sing it now? She face?

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Speaker 1: So I can't forget not only are we in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the meat you moment, but I picked would

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00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: head to head with she going to bring up another

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Speaker 1: thing that's perfect for this tape, but I will say,

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Speaker 1: I just want there's some rony here, which you know,

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Speaker 1: I looked up your holdings number one holding fer Yes,

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Speaker 1: So top of all this, there's a viagraa moment going on.

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Speaker 1: So it's just like that's the interesting thing when you

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Speaker 1: do look at the holdings like this is often categorized

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Speaker 1: as an environmental social Governance fund, and obviously on the

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00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,159
Speaker 1: governance side you can see why that is. But it

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily tick the boxes that you might see from

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Speaker 1: a typical E s G fund. It's not steering clear

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Speaker 1: of your kind of multinationals. It's steering into that and

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Speaker 1: rewarding those that really kind of actually advocate for women.

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Speaker 1: But I would just say on the point of the

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Speaker 1: Me too movement, these guys have been incredible with their

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Speaker 1: marketing from the word go. This This et F was

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Speaker 1: launched on International Women's Stay Back in twenty six they

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Speaker 1: set up the Fearless Girl sculpture downtown. Everybody shrinking over here, Rachel.

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Speaker 1: How much money is in the ct F. It's just

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Speaker 1: over three million, and that's its weakness. But when you

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Speaker 1: look at e t F, you really only start to

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Speaker 1: see growth and assets from about the three year mark onwards.

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Speaker 1: She now has two years under its belt, so I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking that come March next year, we're really going to

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00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,679
Speaker 1: start to see people moving money in. But with three

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Speaker 1: hundred million, it's hardly all right, all right, there haven't

385
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: been many blowouts so far, but this was this was

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Speaker 1: one of them. Rachel just put it out. I'm going

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00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 1: to say one of the things. I mean now it

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00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: was Rachel, really good man. I mean, you're just for

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Speaker 1: you next year. Don't come in with your first thought

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00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: them being like, you know, I picked this one because

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00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm for more a god in. Nobody can't. No one can't.

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00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: It's pronounced Oregon. So that's shame on you. We'll see

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00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: if you come back next year. You can't fire the

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Speaker 1: judge I just did. It's actually organized show. By the way,

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00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: this this reminded me of Rocky four when Drago fought

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00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: Apollo Creed. Yeah, that was exactly what happened here. I'm

397
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: not sure if Joel's alive. I'll take the Russian. I'll

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00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 1: take that all right. Back to Oregon to you quietly

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Speaker 1: shrinking away now, Okay, Final four, number one seed s MH,

400
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: number four, seed she, number seven seed e m t

401
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 1: y number three seed Yin and Yang. First off, we're

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00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: gonna do SMH versus She. That's number one versus number four. Danny.

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00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 1: All right, So, just like University of Virginia, which happens

404
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: to be my alma mater, I am now claiming this

405
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: number one seed and will not be complaining about being

406
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: seated as number one. And you know why, it's just

407
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: like Virginia because it's not flashy, it's not in your face,

408
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: and it's patient, which is exactly what s MH is not. Only,

409
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: as I said before, is this some great internet lingo

410
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: for shaking my head that works awesomely as a reporter

411
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: when covering this. But this e t F waited for

412
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: its time to shine. Semiconductor stocks are hot right now,

413
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: and in the past two years, this thing has doubled

414
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: its assets. It didn't need to go after some try

415
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: to pander to the crowd, need to erect a statue

416
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: on walls up. It sat there. It played defense, just

417
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: like University of Virginia, and like Tony Bennett, who not

418
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: only is a singer but is also the coach of UNI.

419
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: Versity of Virginia taught its team patients, which is exactly

420
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: what this fund did with its holdings until they came

421
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: into favor. And you know what this makes me say,

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00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: s MH. Shake in my head. This is a great

423
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: fire she alright, she I feel like I'm a bit

424
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: of a disadvantage with all the basketball metaphors going on.

425
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, SHE is the e t F that you

426
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: can pretty much buy if you want to get your

427
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: corporate governance exposure sorted out right. You've got the me

428
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: too movement which we touched on before that that is

429
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: really having a day. So and this is something that

430
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: I think is going to develop over the next year.

431
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: So I think if you start to watch the flows

432
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: going into SHE, I think we're going to start to

433
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 1: see an uptick in these like this fund is becoming

434
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: more and more seasoned in terms of the amount of

435
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: time it's been out in the market and what it

436
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: does that's very different to other funds out there in

437
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: the E s G space Environmental social governance is that

438
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: it really allows you to tilt your holdings to stuff

439
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: that actually benefits women are. The way it does that

440
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: is you have the ratio of women on boards to

441
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: the overall boards, you have the ratio of women executives

442
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: the overall executives. And it's actually quite as sophisticated methodology.

443
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: It's not as simple as SMH perhaps, but the methodology

444
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: really allows you to be very targeted in your approach.

445
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: Having that target has actually really paid off. If you

446
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: look at the returns for for she over the last year.

447
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: You're looking at around fifteent or so. Now that's pretty good.

448
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: That's pretty much in line with the SMP slightly below,

449
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: but pretty much in line with the Rachel. Please san

450
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: Antonio spurs basketball. It's like highly efficient triangle, lots of

451
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: passes and she just like keeps it coming. Danny, any

452
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: final comments before we are before we have a ruling.

453
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: I'm I'm pretty cloar. I think I think I know

454
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna say, But hit me with any final thought.

455
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: Final thought is why Hugo, Who's I can't beat that? So? Um?

456
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: There's a an expression in horse racing, uh the bounce

457
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: when a horse runs a huge race and a huge

458
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: figure one race and then tends to regress a little

459
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: bit aggression. I think we had a bit of a

460
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 1: regression here. She shouldn't have, i mean, ultimately put too

461
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: much of a beating on Webber and just should have

462
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: saved a touch of that first round was a tough matchup,

463
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: it was, but you didn't ultimately maybe she ultimately didn't

464
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: need to win by forty three points that first day.

465
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: So and whereas wah whu wah, indeed sort of, you know,

466
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: after a sleepy round one backing into a round two

467
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: wah wah was very impressive. S mh. You are in

468
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: the finals. Go back to your locker room, get pumped up.

469
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: And if you bring that same firepower to the finals,

470
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean you're gonna be a handfuls No mean reversion here,

471
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: no mean reversion best person one. Al Right, we got

472
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: a number one seed in the final. And now let's

473
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: see a number seven versus a number three. We got

474
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: Ben with E. M. T. Y. You had a great

475
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: first round. Eric. You know, I don't know what to say.

476
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: You're the three. Let's hear your battle. So, like I said,

477
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: I went with Yin and Yang. This is the triple

478
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: leverage China Long and triple leverage China Short, which is

479
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: I mean arguably a masterpiece. Because the Yin Yang symbol

480
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: is a masterpiece. It's it's older than gold. Okay, it

481
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: dates back to like fourteenth century BC. It's been around forever.

482
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: What other ticker can say that? And I personally have

483
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: a personal relationship with the Yang symbol because I'm very

484
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: lazy about Halloween and when year in college, I was

485
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: like trying to get a costume together. So I was like, oh,

486
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: I'll be a cow. So I painted my face light.

487
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: I put a little dot on it, like to like

488
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: the spot of the cow. I went to the party.

489
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, dude, you're the Yin Yang symbol, and so

490
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: I was. I proceeded to be the Yin Yang single

491
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: symbol for the next couple of years for Halloween, which

492
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: is a great costume by the way, everybody loves it.

493
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: So I realized then how powerful and like well the

494
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: symbol is and it's perfect for the metaphor you know,

495
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: it says everything. You don't even need to know what

496
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: the E t F does your long china or your

497
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: short chin to take a pick. I like how he

498
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 1: saved the personal touch for the second round, right, Unlike

499
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: someone else, I was gonna say, can I just go

500
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: shake to the next like alright, ben um. This reminds

501
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: me of like your college roommate who read one book

502
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: on Buddhism and then thinks he's Richard Dear or Dalai Lama.

503
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: Like this is like literally Yin Yang is like this

504
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: is an American ETF based on the fifty biggest Chinese stocks,

505
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: and like the people put it together probably know as

506
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: much about this Eastern philosophy as you or me. This

507
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: is like, this is Panda Express, This is not authentic

508
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: Chinese food. Um E M T Y. So the price

509
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: to earnings ratio of Amazon right now is three D

510
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: twenty four. How do you bet on the decline of

511
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: American retail which is the big, one of the biggest

512
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: economic stories right now, and when a recession hits, it's

513
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: going to be epic. It could be epic if these

514
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: retailers can't pull out of it and develop a better

515
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: online strategy. I think that this, of course I said

516
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: in the first round, this could totally empty out your

517
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: bank account. But I also think that this is actually

518
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: providing something for investors that they need a way to

519
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: bet against the decline of retail. A bit on the

520
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: decline of retail. And yes, it's a little evil to

521
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: bet on profiting from millions of people losing their livelihoods,

522
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: but it's a legit strategy. It is evil. The other

523
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: thing I would say about empty is, if you're really

524
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: committed to this strategy, why not go with clicks which

525
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: is short those small stocks, but long Amazon and the

526
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: e commerce Well not everyone. Can you know, throw multiple

527
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: ETFs in there, you know, in their pair um empty

528
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: final thoughts. My final thought is think back to when

529
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: you were a teenager. Well, I think back when to

530
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: when I was a teenager, and think about nostalgically about

531
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: walking around the mall, going to the gap, going to

532
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: the video game store, going to the bookstore. All that's over.

533
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: Life in America has changed. Kids aren't hanging out in malls,

534
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: are hanging out on Instagram when what'sapp there's a this

535
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: is an important tool to profit from that And things

536
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: just got real quiet of real cultural moment in the

537
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, in you in the US. I actually think,

538
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: strangely enough that find a little plea may have Have

539
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: you gone to j C Penny lately? It's not bad

540
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: that you can get gloves, and there's a lot of

541
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: older Jenny, by the way, who has the money, the

542
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: older people. I'm telling you, j C. Penny is full

543
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: of people. The mall is underrated. You can try stuff on.

544
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: It's not that bad. It's gonna take forty years for

545
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: this trade to play out. Forty years empty. Forty years

546
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: is gonna take me to make a return on this thing. No,

547
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: it's the downward spiral. These malls are emptying out, hence

548
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: the name, and when a store leaves them all, they

549
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: can't replace that revenue. We had a great video game

550
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: on on Bloomberg dot com that basically let you manage

551
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: them all, and there was no way to win it

552
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: because every time of retailer was suffering, you had to

553
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: cut your maintenance budget, your cleaning budget. It was this

554
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 1: fun exercise, these things in a downward spiral, and uh,

555
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: the next recession is going to be really painful, so

556
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: that this game ends with big Ben clock running out,

557
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: crosses over, Eric steps back, knocks it down, ball game

558
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: over in a barn burner. I was really really inclined

559
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: just because I'm you know, this is my little the

560
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: judge's personal preference. I'm a sucker for the triple leverage,

561
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: triple leverage. I mean, I was really I was just

562
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: my natural want was to go that way. But I

563
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: gotta believe the the emptying of America's molle it is

564
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: a big story. Despite what Yin Yang says, it is

565
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: a big Eric's over there with a towel owner's head.

566
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: It's true. I'm like the Isaiah Thomas. I'm not even

567
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: gonna like shake his hand beat me. Yeah, I'm gonna

568
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: like really be bitter as opposed to Rachel Ben I

569
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: hate you all right. So it was so and he's

570
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: probably exhausted now because he gets he's gonna go against

571
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: the number one seed who's just lying, lying and wait

572
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: in London, right's shadow boxing right now as we speak.

573
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: I think we got in fairness to empty, who just

574
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: emptied the tank. You gotta give him like thirty seconds

575
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: to get up, clear as head, walk around, right, and

576
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: you gotta did you gotta bring it again. This is

577
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: one of these finals nobody expected. Might not draw the

578
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: viewership of say a duke right like a move versus

579
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: Tan would, but it's gonna be intriguing and I see

580
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: a close match. So we got number one seed shaking

581
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: my head smh versus number seven seed empty. So Papa,

582
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: did we start with the seventh seed or the one seed?

583
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: I think you gotta give the seventh seed their shot

584
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: to come out find seven, seven seed. You've never been here, yeah,

585
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: seventh seed. The nerves, the nerves have been a seven

586
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: seeding in the final. Ye okay, I've got it. Versus

587
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: secular semi conductors, go up, go down, up and down

588
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: and up and down since semiconductor was created. And uh,

589
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about here with empty is a long

590
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: term secular play. Now is an inverse ETF the best

591
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: way to do something among term I'm not really sure

592
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to bat for that, but this is

593
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: something that is happening. Drift listen. I know I appreciate

594
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: Ben saying that because we just had an episode on

595
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: like why you probably shouldn't use inverse c ts. So

596
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: Ben's just being prudent. I wouldn't. I'm a personal finance reporter.

597
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I don't want anybody to lose their

598
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: use their money on this fair enough, So remind me

599
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: of returns on the inception of this thing and returns.

600
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: What's a little more informative. That's interesting. Uh, it's actually

601
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: down about ten percent since it originated. I think it

602
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: hasn't done that great. I think that there's been a

603
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: small recovery from the retail stocks, but it's a dead

604
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: cat bounce and this is a this is a good

605
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: long term play. So so this is the kind of thing, right,

606
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: so it pays nothing, I lose a little, I lose

607
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: a little, and then when it hits your thinking, I'm like,

608
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: it's gonna hit like in a big number all of

609
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: a sudden out of the blue. Is that is that

610
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: the way we play out conceptually? That's that's the plan. Yeah,

611
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: it's it's wait till either there's a really bad recession

612
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: or wait till some of these retailers just can't keep up.

613
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: And you guess what kind of number I could be

614
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: and you could be looking at when this thing hit.

615
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: If this thing pops, well, the one thing about inverse

616
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: funds is they are path dependent, as they say, and

617
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: if if we do see them like go down in

618
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: a nice steady path, this thing will start compounding a

619
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: bit and you could be ringing up some serious returns.

620
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: That's sort of why it's a little dangerous because it

621
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: is so inviting, but you'd have to this thing would

622
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: really hit the triple seven's if you had a nice, steady,

623
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: long term decline at these mall stores. I'm getting an

624
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: assist from Luke Kyle and this one who points out

625
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: retail sector may see more defaults. So this isn't everything

626
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: must go going out of business moment. Luke from the

627
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: day helping him from the ground. I think Danny number

628
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: one I won't take offense to the fact that uh

629
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: Luke gave Ben the assist in this moment, because I

630
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: would like to point out, on the eighteenth of April

631
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, Luke unintentionally gave me an assist by

632
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: tweeting at me, whoa at Danny Berger can't believe you

633
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: jump the gun in writing off this e t F

634
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: s m H. So even though you battled against me

635
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: in the first round, I'm so sorry, I'm still going

636
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: to say that you gave me an assist here, all right.

637
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: So what comes to mind, and Eric was touching on

638
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: this a little bit, is the idea that my competitor,

639
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: you know, I've been I've been studying the tapes though

640
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: though he is undefeated. I've been thinking about other e

641
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: t s along his path that have been defeated before.

642
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: And what comes to mind our short e t s.

643
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: You know, there there was another short e t F

644
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: out there that people said was a sure thing that

645
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: you'd be making money off of it. Uh you know,

646
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: not saying that E M T Y is as uh

647
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: poses a structural threat to the market like some other

648
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: E t F did, But you know what people said

649
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: that uh X I v looked like a short thing,

650
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: a short E t F, just you know, picking up

651
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: pennies and in front of a steam roller. Uh. And

652
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: then here we have this classic E t F following semiconductors. Uh.

653
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: Such a great story to the market of this super

654
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: liquid e t F following these stocks which have really

655
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: carried the market higher. And it's a really interesting story

656
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: to see how that's evolved. But this is a clean play. Uh.

657
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: It's it's uh not using swaps to get its exposure. Uh.

658
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: This is a pure e t F, so pure that

659
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: they accidentally gave it a ticker that we could all

660
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: use to make fun of it. But well before before

661
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: I rule, I got a question for the panel for

662
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: Eric here. So and this is actually gonna have a

663
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: lot of bearing on the on my my decision. So

664
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: she's comparing empty with essentially some iteration of the VIX

665
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: short And as I immediately think about it, conceptually, to me,

666
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: they're actually even though they're both short, they involved shorting

667
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: the pretty different concepts. Uh, in the sense that right

668
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: you are essentially you were picking up nickels along the way,

669
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: you're essentially selling that insurance, right you are betting on

670
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: the continuous stability things, whereas he's actually he's going for

671
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: the home run. He's saying, I'm gonna day to day.

672
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: I don't care, right, I'm looking for the home run

673
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: down the road. Walk me to walk me through this. Yeah,

674
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: it's sort of it's like throwing some elbows. Uh, you

675
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: could call the foul because empty is no x I V. However,

676
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: they are both short. But look, I saw it as

677
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: scrappy personally. I thought it's just like a you know,

678
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: it's a physical game. Is playoff basketball and the finals.

679
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: In no way for anyone listening out there, x I

680
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: V was just in a league of its own in

681
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: terms of what it was doing. Um, there are a

682
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: lot of short ETFs. They're probably two hundred of them

683
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: that didn't implode over the past fifteen years. X IVY

684
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: is a special case. But so that's why bringing in

685
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: is a little bit illegal. If the refs didn't see it,

686
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: the ref the judge, but the judge was on the

687
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: judge was on it. So here, so here we are,

688
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: Here we are I think I have I think for

689
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: a final? Is it a little sleepy? No? No, no, no,

690
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: right into it? No, it's good. I'm into it. Kind

691
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: of offset the Luke thing, because that was a little

692
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: It's like the guy from the stands holding up something

693
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: on the paybo the other team to pree throws. Yeah,

694
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: I've got I've got one word to describe League, which

695
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: is bitter. He seems like he's a little bitter. But

696
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: you know, here's so, here's the thing, Danny, she was

697
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: just like meticulously like a machine, just working at break down.

698
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: And and and I and I was starting to lean

699
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: that way, but you know what, I just sort of

700
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: keep going back to. I keep going back to and

701
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: I know, Eric, uh, it wasn't feeling this so much,

702
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: but it just strikes me that yet the fate of

703
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: the American consumer and the American mall, I'm actually just

704
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: feeling that story is a big story. And and and

705
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: and and I know in a lot of this is

706
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: why it was the number seven seed. It's this short

707
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: and and and it's and it's minus ten return and

708
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: it's only gonna pay out, you know, if it goes big.

709
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: But I don't know if it's actually gonna ever pay

710
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: out the et of itself. But it paid out on

711
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: this show, Empty Villanova. It's taking this thing, is taking

712
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: this thing down and and Virginia were Virginia was playing

713
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: offense and they were doing well, but it was really

714
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: in the attack. But this is ultimately Virginia's defensive team

715
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: because you know when they're when they're in this full

716
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: offensive mode, every once in a while they can make

717
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: a mistakes. Well, Danny, thank you so much for joining

718
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: us from London. You put up a good battle. But

719
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: then personal finance for the wind. And by the way, Dandy,

720
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: your constant ation prizes that Van X probably gonna call

721
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: you the day after this comes out and ask you

722
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: for a job. Does a victor have any words to say?

723
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: I just want to say, don't invest in this. No, no,

724
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: I can't wait a minute. Danny, Luke, Rachel, Suzanne, Ben Carolina,

725
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining the show. This was

726
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: an absolute glass and a special props to David Pappadopolis.

727
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: Thank you very well. We get some cans applause. So

728
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: we started with marketing and lo and behold empty kind

729
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: of a great chicker. It ends up winning it all.

730
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: What do you think, Well, this kind of really hits

731
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: to the whole thing because the marketing is what gets you.

732
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: It's like a shiny object that gets you close to

733
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: what it holds. But as this went on, you know,

734
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: you could see how the strategy sorted to become the

735
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: bigger way that the judgment was made, and that ultimately

736
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: is probably pretty symbolic of how this happens, because the

737
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: ticker really shouldn't be the only thing. It's something else

738
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: going on, right, But the ticker is important because again

739
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: you have in a category, the ticker can draw you in.

740
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: But ultimately, like Ben said, he loves the ticker as

741
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: a marketing I know, but he's not that hot about

742
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: what's going on underneath. And so Ben would be a

743
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: classic investor who's doing his job of maybe he was

744
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: sold on the ticker and the name, looked at the

745
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: holdings and said no. Thanks. Thanks for listening to Trilliance.

746
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: Special things to Danny Burger, Lukawa, David Papadapos, Rachel Evans,

747
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: Suzanne Willie, Ben, Steve Berman, Carolina Wilson. This was a

748
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: fun episode. Until next time, you can find us on

749
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, and probably

750
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: a bunch of other places I haven't heard about yet.

751
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. All of us are

752
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Eric's at Eric call Tunas, I'm at Joel

753
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: Webber Show Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Francesca Leavy

754
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: is the head of Bloomberg podcast by