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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You From House Supports

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline

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Speaker 1: and I'm Kristin, and welcome to put two of our

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Speaker 1: year and review. The year has been so chock full

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Speaker 1: of fabulous things and stuff that it it's actually taking

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Speaker 1: two episodes to review it. But we do have a

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Speaker 1: special surprise for this particular episode. That's right, Caroline, we

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Speaker 1: have not one, but two special guests in the studio today,

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Speaker 1: returning guests, I should say the stuff I've never told you,

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Speaker 1: And actually I think these are our first returning guests. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're like series regulars now and they're high fiving. Let's

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Speaker 1: just like not introduced right now, keep talking about that.

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Speaker 1: I love this mystery. But we are being joined by

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Speaker 1: two of our fantastic, hilarious, smart co workers he at

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Speaker 1: how Stuff works. Ladies, will you introduce yourselves please? Hi.

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Speaker 1: I am Raquel Willis. I am a digital publisher and

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Speaker 1: I am so glad to be back. This is amazing, Raquel.

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Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you back. I will have

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Speaker 1: that I get to be in the studio with Raquel

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Speaker 1: for the first time ever. So I'm Holly Fry I'm

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Speaker 1: the co host on Stuff you miss some history class

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Speaker 1: and an editor here, and I promise that none of

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Speaker 1: the stuff I have to talked about today involves underpants. Ah, well,

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Speaker 1: you can just leave now. Well, we're so excited to

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Speaker 1: have Raquel and Holly on because the thing is, there's

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Speaker 1: just no way as much work as Kristen and I

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Speaker 1: do and as much research as we do throughout the year,

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Speaker 1: there's no way we can possibly cover everything. There's so

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Speaker 1: much fabulous information out there specific to ladies that has

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Speaker 1: happened over and we haven't possibly been able to cover

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Speaker 1: all of it, which is why we wanted to get

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Speaker 1: some additional perspectives in here. So what we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: for the this Year in Review slash Lady Friend Party

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Speaker 1: is go around the podcast studio table and talk about

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Speaker 1: our high points and low points for women pop culture

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Speaker 1: and all the things that just caught our attention throughout

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Speaker 1: the year, and talk about it and just kind of

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Speaker 1: see what we were all thinking about and tweeting about

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Speaker 1: and screaming about. Sometimes we're so in the same wave length.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, recal, do you want to get us started? Sure?

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Speaker 1: So much pressure, You're right, So I have a few. UM, definitely,

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Speaker 1: and this is probably the most recent, UM, but Serena

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Speaker 1: being on Sports Illustrated as the sports Person of the

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Speaker 1: Year like that was amazing. I think she's the first

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Speaker 1: woman in over a decade, I leave, and by herself

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Speaker 1: the first woman since like the eighties, I think. So

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Speaker 1: that was really amazing. When UM, of course is Kaitlyn

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Speaker 1: Jenner's Vanity fair cover, I have a lot of thoughts

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Speaker 1: about that, conflicting thoughts. UM as a trans woman, Viola

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Speaker 1: Davis one Best Actress in a Drama UM Emmy this year,

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Speaker 1: So that was a really amazing when her speech was

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Speaker 1: so amazing, and it was so cute that her daughter

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Speaker 1: dressed up for her as Halloween and held her a

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Speaker 1: little in me. I don't know if this is a

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Speaker 1: highlight or low light, but definitely, Nicki minaj Is Miley

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Speaker 1: was good. Was definitely a moment um in lady pop

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Speaker 1: culture this year. UM. And the whole conversation of all

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Speaker 1: of I guess really just women and the music industry

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Speaker 1: and UM just kind of having that dialogue about intersections

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Speaker 1: of identities. That was a good conversation. I don't quite

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Speaker 1: agree with how it happened, UM, but it happened the

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton Lena Dunham interview. I thought was interesting. Did

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Speaker 1: you guys see that? I did not see that. I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it either. God, what's wrong with us? Underinformed

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Speaker 1: humans or kills bringing the heat and we're just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know which cool. I live on social media,

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Speaker 1: so it's just like that my life. Um. Well, they

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Speaker 1: they had like a short interview, um, probably like two

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Speaker 1: months ago, so you didn't mess it by like much. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was part of me that was thinking,

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Speaker 1: because I can appreciate Lena Dunham and I'm a fan

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Speaker 1: of Hillary Clinton, but there was a part of me

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Speaker 1: that was like I literally dismissed it with the thought

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Speaker 1: in my brain of it's probably just gonna be real softball.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably gonna be like galpal buddy buddy,

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Speaker 1: which is what we're doing right now in this room.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, well, I just thought I would

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Speaker 1: go back and watch it later. I would rather be

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Speaker 1: more informed about like news ear interviews. And then I

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Speaker 1: just never watched it. So what's my problem? I don't know. Soerkell,

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Speaker 1: what impressed you about the interview? I think from me

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Speaker 1: like I get the Hillary Clino if I'm us, like,

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Speaker 1: I get that she falls into mainstream UM feminist politics.

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Speaker 1: For me, I really want to see her talk to

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Speaker 1: feminists that may not look necessarily like her come from

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Speaker 1: kind of similar background, UM, particularly as a black woman.

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Speaker 1: That's always like a conversation that we have in our

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Speaker 1: community is like, should we vote for her because she's

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Speaker 1: a woman, or you know, does she talk enough about

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Speaker 1: intersectionality and race and stuff like that? So it was cute.

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Speaker 1: I mean I it showed like a human side to

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Speaker 1: Hillary that we don't always get to see because she

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Speaker 1: has to be like, you know, this politician and and

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Speaker 1: um beyond her peas and ques. So I have a

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Speaker 1: podcast recommendation for you though, where she is talking to

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Speaker 1: women who do not look like her and that isn't

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Speaker 1: just softballs UM. For fans of Buzzfeeds, another round, Heaven

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Speaker 1: and Tracy interview Hillary Clinton in the episode Madam Secretary,

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Speaker 1: What's Good? It's episode number twenty eight, and I highly

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Speaker 1: recommend everybody listen to it because they do, you know,

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Speaker 1: get into joke ear lighthearted questions, but for a while

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Speaker 1: they really hold her accountable. Two issues around Black Lives Matter,

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Speaker 1: a legislation that Bill Clinton passed during his administration and

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Speaker 1: how that impacted black communities, and I was really impressed

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Speaker 1: with the whole thing. To me, it was like one

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Speaker 1: of the best conversations that she's had, and she actually

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Speaker 1: came across as not just minding her p's and queues

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Speaker 1: and following a script and talking points. I agree, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I and I definitely listened for that. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was an awful moment. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I kind of just want to go back to the

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Speaker 1: Caitlin and Enhumanity Fair yea, because that looks like hude.

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Speaker 1: I think when I first saw it, I think I

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Speaker 1: actually was on the way to the office, um, because

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Speaker 1: it dropped like in the morning, and a little bit

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Speaker 1: of me on the inside was, um like kind of

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Speaker 1: like yes, like this is awesome, like representation and visibility,

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Speaker 1: you know. And also I kind of felt for her

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Speaker 1: being in the spotlight and people putting an identity on

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Speaker 1: her before she was really ready to like say anything.

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Speaker 1: So I really felt for her for being thrust into

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Speaker 1: the spotlight. But I mean I definitely think her kind

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Speaker 1: of taking on this role as a spokesperson for the

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Speaker 1: trans community. Um. And I guess just a spokesperson in

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Speaker 1: general has been very problematic over the past few months.

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Speaker 1: As we've seen, um, well, the most recent stuff, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are unhappy with how she was phrasing

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Speaker 1: some things. Yeah, can you talk a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about what what you mean by problematic? Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: to start UMM being an activist and actually doing like

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Speaker 1: trans advocacy work. It's been a little difficult to to

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Speaker 1: completely see it for her because she hasn't really been

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Speaker 1: connected to the community, right, Like, she really wasn't really

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Speaker 1: connected to the community until after she came out and

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Speaker 1: and said that she was trans um to the world

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Speaker 1: UM and and in a lot of ways, I think

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Speaker 1: it didn't necessarily erase but it kind of spoke over

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Speaker 1: a lot of the work that had been done by

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who have been in the media

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Speaker 1: UM specifically people like of course Verne Cox and Janet

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Speaker 1: mock and and others, people who actually like have made

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Speaker 1: it their mission to infuse their identity and to their

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Speaker 1: work and be very open and authentic. UM. I think

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Speaker 1: that that's something she wants to do, but I think

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Speaker 1: it takes more than just saying your spokes for person

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Speaker 1: like it's hard work to be a public speaker on transitiones,

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Speaker 1: like you have to do research, you have to read,

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Speaker 1: you have to be in community with other people, and

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Speaker 1: and have these hard discussions you know before you you know,

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Speaker 1: just taking upon yourself. Um. But the other thing that

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Speaker 1: too is I think I don't want to put this

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Speaker 1: on her, but a lot of times it feels like,

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Speaker 1: because of where she is in her transition, UM, that

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Speaker 1: she has a lot of essentialist ideas about gender UM.

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Speaker 1: And I get the part of her being a media figure,

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Speaker 1: but when it comes to basing your womanhood or at

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Speaker 1: least talking about your womanhood purely from an aesthetic standpoint

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Speaker 1: or purely from UM, this kind of I have to

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Speaker 1: be hyper feminine because that's the only way I can

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Speaker 1: be respected is somewhat damaging to the community that has

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Speaker 1: a growing population of non bind arian gender queer individuals

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Speaker 1: who don't necessarily fall within the gender binarya of uh

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Speaker 1: woman or man strictly. UM. So I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of the one of my maids or critiques. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the interview, this was with Time Magazine right in

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Speaker 1: early December, she says, what I call my presentation, I

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Speaker 1: try to take that. Seriously, I think it puts people

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Speaker 1: at ease if you look like a man in address.

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Speaker 1: That makes people uncomfortable. And it was those words in

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Speaker 1: particular that people were like, are you Are you kidding?

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Speaker 1: Like you haven't been a part of this community visibly

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Speaker 1: or supporting this community, and you're just gonna come out

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Speaker 1: and say things like this that are so focused on appearance.

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Speaker 1: And in a letter an open letter to Caitlyn Jenner,

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Speaker 1: Bryan Tannehill, who's SPARTAT Director of Advocacy, said, you're coming

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Speaker 1: to accept yourself. That's cool, but before you can be

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Speaker 1: a spokesperson for the community, you need to learn to

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Speaker 1: accept and empathize with the community at large. Unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: path you are traveling will make learning that empathy and

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Speaker 1: gaining that cultural knowledge so much harder in length here,

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Speaker 1: which is why, with all the love and respect I

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Speaker 1: have for you as a sister, I believe you should

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Speaker 1: take a step backwards or at least sideways. What you're

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Speaker 1: doing doesn't seem to be working. And Caitlyn Jenner did

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Speaker 1: come out and release a statement being like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do have a little bit to learn well, and

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Speaker 1: I mean, is there any conflict as well? Over the

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Speaker 1: fact that her politics are very conservative to not that

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Speaker 1: you can't be a transgender Republican, but it does seem

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Speaker 1: like some of her some of it is at odds

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Speaker 1: in terms of her what her platforms definitely, and I

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Speaker 1: actually I I tweeted about this um probably last week.

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Speaker 1: UM Mike addicted to Twitter now for some reason. But

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Speaker 1: the tweet was saying that, you know, it's almost impossible

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Speaker 1: for you to be a spokesperson for a community if

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Speaker 1: you don't even ide to fire with them politically. And

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Speaker 1: when I say politically, like I mean in terms of

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ issues, right, Like you can't because she in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways says that she's a spokesperson for the

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Speaker 1: entire LGBTQ community, like oftentimes she doesn't even necessarily like

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Speaker 1: specify just the trans community. But I think moments like

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Speaker 1: on Ellen when she was talking about gay marriage or

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Speaker 1: same sex marriage and saying how she didn't really like

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Speaker 1: agree with it and and really backpedaled a lot around it.

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Speaker 1: It was very difficult because we are still having so

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Speaker 1: many conversations within the LGBTQ community about whether trans people

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Speaker 1: should even be included right, And people have had like

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Speaker 1: the drop the t campaign on change dot Org and

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Speaker 1: all of these different kind of conversations. So it's really

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Speaker 1: opening a lot of wounds and a lot of conversations

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Speaker 1: that we need to have, but in a very kind

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Speaker 1: of hap hazard and just deal with that kind of way. Well,

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Speaker 1: it strikes me one. I think there's a weird double

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Speaker 1: edged sort at play right in terms of her visibility

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Speaker 1: both before and after she came out as a trans woman.

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Speaker 1: That one, she's in a universe that is very esthetics driven,

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Speaker 1: so there's this weird layer to the onion of like,

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Speaker 1: of course you would say that she's been conditioned in

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Speaker 1: the you know community that she's been in and you know,

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Speaker 1: reality television, etcetera like, But then there's this other thing

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Speaker 1: where because she has this fame, there's like a double

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Speaker 1: play there where people are sort of like, of course

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Speaker 1: you're going to be an advocate. You're so visible and

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Speaker 1: this is your But I feel like somebody skipped the

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Speaker 1: media training portion for her, where I'm like, you could

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Speaker 1: be this is a really great opportunity and you could

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Speaker 1: say like I am new and I am learning and

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Speaker 1: you can learn with me. But instead there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of like weird bombs coming out where you're like wait,

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Speaker 1: oh please, no, oh, please be quiet, just from somebody

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Speaker 1: tell her the not just the media training, but also

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Speaker 1: maybe the history lesson to like there's it seems it

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Speaker 1: feels like from the outside, there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: missing context going into some of these conversations. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's very difficult for the public to tease a

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Speaker 1: part that nuance, right, um, because people see her narrative

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Speaker 1: as in a lot of ways as that singular trans narrative. Now, um,

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Speaker 1: just because she has the loudest voice, she has the

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Speaker 1: biggest platform. And I think it's even more damaging because

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Speaker 1: people can't tease out that just because your trans, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're superficial. And that has been a

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Speaker 1: trope for the longest time is that trans women in

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Speaker 1: particular base their womanhood based off of how they look

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Speaker 1: and how much they can quote unquote path or half

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Speaker 1: passing privilege, or what they wear and what they play

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Speaker 1: with as a kid. And and the truth is a

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Speaker 1: lot of trans women don't For a lot of trans women,

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Speaker 1: they don't even have access to those things because of

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Speaker 1: the barriers economically and socially. A lot of trans women

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Speaker 1: will never be able to afford hormones, will never be

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Speaker 1: able to afford the surgeries that they may or may

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Speaker 1: not want. Um. And it's just it's really sad that

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Speaker 1: how this media moment has perpetuated a lot of those stereotypes.

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Speaker 1: So do you think overall that was a good year

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Speaker 1: for trans issues or kind of not so much. That's

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Speaker 1: a very difficult question. It's yeah, it's hard to put

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Speaker 1: it like an either or on that, right, Like, at

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Speaker 1: least now like I can be like, hey, I'm transgender

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Speaker 1: and people will be will kind of know, like it's

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Speaker 1: it's not like nine out of him people being like

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? Are you like a mechanic or

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Speaker 1: something or or something weird? Um? Like now I think

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Speaker 1: at least like four out of ten people though, But

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Speaker 1: so I I think it has been a mixed bag.

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Speaker 1: I think visibility is at an increase um And but

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Speaker 1: also with that that hyper visibility, there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of violence that we are seeing. I don't necessarily know

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Speaker 1: if there's been more violence. People have been saying that,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's hard to say that because now

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Speaker 1: that we're actually covering the violence that it will probably

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Speaker 1: seem like there's more violence, but really there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of violence the whole entire way. People just didn't

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Speaker 1: know that it was because people were trans So yeah, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so my first one. It's gonna sound like I'm plugging

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Speaker 1: our show. I'm not. It's just super exciting to me.

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Speaker 1: Um So the United States Chief Technology Officer Megan Smith

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Speaker 1: earlier this year, she and her team sort of put

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Speaker 1: together this really cool initiative based on the fact that

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Speaker 1: she is also a history buff and one of the

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Speaker 1: first things she did when she got into her position

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Speaker 1: was to go to the National Archives and say that

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Speaker 1: she wanted to see the Declaration of Sentiments, which is

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Speaker 1: the first women's rights document ever drafted at Seneca Falls

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Speaker 1: in and the archivist was like, I can't help you.

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Speaker 1: He didn't say that, but they didn't have it. And

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Speaker 1: it was kind of pre when like the National Archives

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Speaker 1: was was doing all of that sort of like maintaining

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Speaker 1: and documenting of all things. So we don't know where

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Speaker 1: this document is. Nobody knows where it is. Like archivists

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Speaker 1: throughout the United States and the world have all been

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Speaker 1: trying to work together to find out if anybody has

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Speaker 1: this document. No one does, so um Megan and one

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Speaker 1: of her colleagues, Lindsley Host, kind of started a crowdsourcing

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Speaker 1: approach to it of like, Okay, let's make this like

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Speaker 1: a treasure hunt for everyone, because somebody has a connection

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Speaker 1: to this document somewhere. I mean many people do. Like

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Speaker 1: a lot of us that live in the United States

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Speaker 1: probably have grandmothers or great grandmothers or great great grandmothers

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Speaker 1: there were somehow related to people that were there. Um,

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Speaker 1: So what they're doing is they're having people who might

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Speaker 1: know anything about the Seneca Falls Convention, any little piece

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Speaker 1: of history that slipped through the cracks. It could be

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Speaker 1: a clue anything that is maybe lost in terms of

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Speaker 1: women's history. To share that on social media with the

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Speaker 1: hashtag find the Sentiments. I just think this is the

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Speaker 1: coolest thing. It's the smartest way to approach, uh, this

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Speaker 1: sort of history that's sort of a little bit lost.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we know what they said, we have reproductions

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Speaker 1: of it, but we don't have the original. And along

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Speaker 1: the way, there are so many other beautiful little details

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Speaker 1: that are coming out about other things like little lapel

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Speaker 1: pins that were made for it, and and all of

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Speaker 1: this great stuff. And I feel like in terms of um,

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Speaker 1: you know, for women in I wish it had greater visibility.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm like the proselytizer on this because

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Speaker 1: I have not stopped talking about it since they reached

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Speaker 1: out to our podcast about it, um and we're doing

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Speaker 1: some other stuff around it here how stuff works. But

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Speaker 1: I just what a smart way to like, actually get

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Speaker 1: people involved, get people excited about history, get people excited

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Speaker 1: about women's history, and they do a lot to connect,

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Speaker 1: Like this isn't just for women, it's this was a

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Speaker 1: document that was not only women were there, not only

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Speaker 1: women signed it. It's really a big part of American

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Speaker 1: history and really world history. Because heads up for anybody

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Speaker 1: that reads that document. Uh, those rights that they claim

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Speaker 1: we need, we don't have them yet the hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixties seven years ago and we're still fighting for a

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Speaker 1: lot of these. Uh So that's pretty fascinating. My other one,

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Speaker 1: I know it's gonna sound crack pop, but you have

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Speaker 1: to come with me on this one. It's Star Wars. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Because ever since Kathleen Kennedy was named president of Lucasfilm

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Speaker 1: and if you don't know her, you do know her. Um,

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Speaker 1: she has produced pretty much every film that shaped you

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Speaker 1: as a child, like et Raiders Jurassic Park. She's worked

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Speaker 1: with Spielberg forever, She's worked with the Mechas on a

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Speaker 1: kajillion projects. She is amazing, and she really takes into

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Speaker 1: account her leadership position and how it can be used

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Speaker 1: to mentor others. And one of the things as people

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Speaker 1: they know, uh, is that Star Wars, This new Star

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Speaker 1: Wars film, The Force Awakens, has a much more diverse

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Speaker 1: cast than any previous one, and a lot of that

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Speaker 1: is putting women into roles that they previously haven't had.

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Speaker 1: There's a great, great, great great article in l A

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Speaker 1: Times from recently about the women of Star Wars. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that really like spoke to me,

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Speaker 1: I mean almost like in that way that you catch

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Speaker 1: your breath and you're like, holy crap, I never thought

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Speaker 1: about it that way is Gwendolyn Christie talking about meeting

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Speaker 1: with Kathleen Kennedy and Kathleen Kennedy saying, hey, have you

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Speaker 1: ever googled um movie heroin to see what comes up?

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Speaker 1: And Gwendeln Christie was like no, and She's like, let

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Speaker 1: me do it for you, and it was all like

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Speaker 1: exactly what you kind of think of like women in

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Speaker 1: skimpy outfits, and and she was like, you and I

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Speaker 1: are the people that can help change this conversation. And

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Speaker 1: she's trying to like without she's not one of those

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Speaker 1: people that gets She's got this beautiful way about her

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Speaker 1: where she can kind of push these these things around

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Speaker 1: a little bit and get some movement in there and

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Speaker 1: get women in there without it being like I'm making

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Speaker 1: this a women's issue. She's just trying to make the

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Speaker 1: movies look a little bit more like the real world.

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Speaker 1: It's very beautiful to me and very cool. And I

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Speaker 1: just aprey, like I've never been more excited or proud

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Speaker 1: to be a Star Wars fan to know that, like

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Speaker 1: we're in this whole new era. And I love all

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Speaker 1: of the movies, but I just feel like this is

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Speaker 1: a really cool time when you consider Variety just put

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Speaker 1: out an article that Star Wars right now, which we're

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Speaker 1: recording this opening weekend has sold more tickets already than

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Speaker 1: any movie ever of all time in its run. Really,

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Speaker 1: so like that's pretty important when you think about, like

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Speaker 1: the star of the film is a woman, and she

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Speaker 1: is a pilot, which is historically the revered position in

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Speaker 1: star Wars and it's important and it's good to know

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Speaker 1: that lots of people are going and they're getting eyeballs

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Speaker 1: on this, and why are they're conscious of it or not?

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Speaker 1: They're seeing women in ways that they have never seen

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Speaker 1: in sci fi before. How maybe never? I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be too broad, but how has the Star Wars

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Speaker 1: fan base at large reacted to all of the focus

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Speaker 1: on women in this movie, because I'm thinking about the

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Speaker 1: backlash too, things like the all female Ghostbusters, like, don't

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Speaker 1: you don't have to you know, pigeonhole women in here,

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Speaker 1: you're ruining it. Uh. There are definitely some crabby patties

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Speaker 1: in the herd, but I mean there's gonna be any

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Speaker 1: time you like shift the balance in anything that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen. There were people that were angry when the

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Speaker 1: first teaser trailer came out and John Boyega was the

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Speaker 1: first thing they saw and they were like a black

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Speaker 1: man in Star Wars, that's a stormtroopers. Stormtroopers are clones, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you think that you need to

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Speaker 1: brush up, but clone troopers are cloned. Stormtroopers are recruited.

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Speaker 1: They're now they're because I just rewatched all six nice episodes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I had the same thought of like, well, like

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Speaker 1: it's great that this guy is a Stormtrooper, but here

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Speaker 1: they're cloning this like guy from New Zealand or something. Well,

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Speaker 1: they don't all stay Maori forever. They diversified later on

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Speaker 1: when they could because later because I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: the Stormtroopers are white and gee count briefly and it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a spoiler, not about the new

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Speaker 1: movie but about the things outside of the movies. But

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Speaker 1: in the cloning facility got damaged, got destroyed at one point.

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Speaker 1: Um that's the very short version. But so they couldn't well, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is it all makes sense. So yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: there have been some people and there has been some backlash.

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Speaker 1: There have also been some gay characters introduced in the literature,

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Speaker 1: and people have gotten really hored about that. But in

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Speaker 1: the most subtle way, it's so funny. It's almost like

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Speaker 1: if you read all of that criticism first and then

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Speaker 1: you go in and you read it, you're like, this

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Speaker 1: isn't really It's like the most casual throwaway mentions. It's

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Speaker 1: not a big deal. But so with women, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the female fans are excited beyond measure, because it's like

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Speaker 1: a big myth that chicks haven't been into Star Wars proof, Hello,

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Speaker 1: where does that even come from? I think just because

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Speaker 1: it's this space that I don't know, sci fi has

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Speaker 1: historically been the realm of boys and men, even though

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Speaker 1: not really. I mean I was always reading that stuff

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Speaker 1: as a kid, and now it's just exciting to see

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Speaker 1: it look a little bit more like my world. Uh So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure why that was a myth, but it

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Speaker 1: is pretty exciting. We're still working on the toy thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, they still haven't evened out in that arena,

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Speaker 1: but uh, I think most fans are pretty excited. Certainly

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Speaker 1: female fans are really excited, and most of my I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't think of any of my friends that are

429
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: male that are troubled by but they probably wouldn't be

430
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: my friends if they were. So I know a few

431
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: people who I who have never really delved into Star

432
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: Wars but watched the whole thing just because of this

433
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: one ye, And I think part of it is that

434
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: diversity piece of like just seeing themselves in it. Um,

435
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: because there there was never anything about Star Wars that

436
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: didn't say that it wasn't for everyone, but I think

437
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 1: seeing those faiths on poster different things have been like,

438
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: oh okay, this this is kind of for me too.

439
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: I did have to laugh sort of related around h

440
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: So you know, Lapitte and Nyongo is in it plays

441
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: a CG character. And someone said something to j j

442
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: Abrams about during their big press junket a couple of

443
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: weeks ago about it's such a pity she's so beautiful,

444
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: and he said, would it be okay if she were

445
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: an ugly woman? He was like, what are you like?

446
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: And it was just one of those moments. Viously, thank

447
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: you for pointing out that like, pretty women should of

448
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: course be on camera and ugly women should not. Like, no,

449
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: that's not it's stunts creativity to think that way, And

450
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm very excited in that campus saying the

451
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: right things. JJ did make a weird thing about Star

452
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: Wars used to be for boys and Leader came back.

453
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: It was like, that was stupid wording. What I meant

454
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: is that that's always been the perception. But overall, the

455
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: message coming out of lucasfilm has been so cool lately

456
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: about like, no, we know you're out there, ladies, we

457
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: want to bring you into the fold if you're not

458
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: already here, and if you are here, we want to

459
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 1: acknowledge that you've been here. I love it. I'm very excited.

460
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up watching Star Wars on laser disc.

461
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: I have it on my dad. Yeah, so to see

462
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: my dad has a here laser disc collection. And the

463
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: thing is, it's the originals. It's not like well with

464
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: all the nineties edits added to it, and so I've

465
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: wanted to go back and rewatch them, but I think

466
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: my father would have to probably clean out his roommber

467
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: the garage where the big screen TV and laser displayers

468
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: before I could actually do that. I'm not sure where

469
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: LaserDisc player is right now, Holly, Well, because we don't

470
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: use it very often. No, I know that's shocking, and

471
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: we moved at one point, so it's somewhere but the

472
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: other and then I'll be done with Star Wars, I promise.

473
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: The other thing that I've really enjoyed void And everybody's

474
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: talked about how hilarious and fun Carrie Fisher has been

475
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: on this press junket, but I really feel like she

476
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: is doing this wonderful thing because she's acknowledging, like, hey,

477
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: people have been dogging me because I don't look like

478
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: I looked when I was twenty, and like, guess what,

479
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: you get older and stuff happens, and like this is life.

480
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: And she's really kind of like not letting people forget

481
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: that this is a jacked up situation where people just

482
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: judge women on their appearance and they don't allow them

483
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: to age. And I just love her because she just

484
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: you know, she always says she thinks in her mouth,

485
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: like it really does just all right out and you

486
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: don't always know where it's going. But it's kind of

487
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: a wonderful conversation starter, I think, to have someone that

488
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: blunt and honest about it just blurt it out at

489
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: every possible point where a microphone is in her face,

490
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: like someone's at least opening this particular Pandora's box. Well,

491
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: you mentioned something about it being revolutionary to include diverse

492
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: cast of characters both in terms of gender, race, ethnicity,

493
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,239
Speaker 1: uh whatever, in Star Wars, and I think that that

494
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: holds true for another uh special show that came out

495
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: this year, which is Jessica Jones. How revolutionary it was

496
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: the fact that so many women we're on screen. I

497
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: was watching and there was one particular scene where people

498
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: are running through a hospital and there's cops and there's

499
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: doctors and nurses and all sorts of people like average

500
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: patients and whatever. And I looked at my boyfriend. I

501
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: was like, all those people are women. Look at all

502
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: those people, they're women. People like that. That police officer,

503
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: that's a woman. That doctor over there, that's a woman too.

504
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: And this this wonderful, fabulous, completely flawed, angry, heavy drinking

505
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: heroin also a lady person. Yeah. Uh there was a

506
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: male journalist. Oh and I'm forgetting who it was. I'm

507
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm sorry who tweeted something really beautiful where he said

508
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: something in the effect of I'm watching Jessica Jones and

509
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: the guys are all relegated to being sex objects or wait,

510
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: is this how women feel all the time? And I'm like,

511
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: you are awesome. Uh. Yeah, it's exciting to see a

512
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: show that really puts its money behind the idea that,

513
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, a female driven sort of superhero property can

514
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: do just fine. So, but how funny would say a

515
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: black Widow movie wouldn't make buck I think you're fools. Well,

516
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: how funny though that we have to even talk about

517
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: this in terms of revolutionary but literally like using the

518
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: word you're like, oh my god, like a black stormtrooper

519
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: and like a woman in the lead role. Like revolutionary.

520
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: Oh I hate that it's well about to now and

521
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: that we're still talking about just making a cast of

522
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: characters in a movie look like real life. That that's revolutionary. So, Caroline,

523
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: what was your high point? Um? Probably back in June

524
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: with same sex marriage getting through the Supreme Court. I mean,

525
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: that was one of those days where it's like everything stopping.

526
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm stopping everything, I'm going to do nothing but obsessively

527
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: look at social media and posts like rainbow flag pictures

528
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: and pictures of people waving rainbow flags and hugging and

529
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: and it was just so special that that whole day

530
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: felt so special, And driving around in my car later

531
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: that night and being at a red light and I

532
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: remember just going people can get married. Everyone can get married,

533
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: Like it's just like we we finally. It doesn't feel real,

534
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: like people can finally marry the person that they love.

535
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: And and there's no like ifs answer butts. Obviously, there's

536
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: still workplace discrimination issues that need to be worked out,

537
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: and and there's some still some very serious issues of

538
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: discrimination that need to be worked out in rep presentation.

539
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: But the fact that like, oh, people can just get married,

540
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: that too feels such a small thing of like I

541
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: am marriage whatever, I can get married, or I won't

542
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: get married or whatever. That is revolutionary too, and it

543
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: was a beautiful thing to witness. Did you spend all

544
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: day like I did, watching the courtroom video feeds of

545
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: like just hundreds of couples getting married, one after another,

546
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: em bawling at your desk. I didn't. I wasn't looking

547
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: at any feeds. I was just refreshing lots of articles,

548
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: looking at pictures, and just getting weepy, honestly as people

549
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: kissed after they signed all of the paperwork and everything. Yeah,

550
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: I just got a little weepy. I get choked up

551
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: just thinking about it, you know, because I can't it's

552
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: so hot, especially because I'm hetero and so I have

553
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: never had to deal with the concept that, like I

554
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: couldn't go to like a regular munday like chain restaurant

555
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: and hold the person I loved hands. But when you

556
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: think about it in those terms like that, like you know,

557
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: don't act like you're actually with the person you're with,

558
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: and put that's horrifying to think about to me, and

559
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: it would just be like the most painful life to live.

560
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: So I'm glad that there are steps happening. We're still

561
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: not all the way there, but we're That was a

562
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: huge one. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was amazing as

563
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: someone who grew up as a little gay boy, or

564
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: I thought I was a little gay boy. Um it

565
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: I was in bed, it was I was working from

566
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: home that day, so I had just had my computer

567
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: in front of me and I checked the Huffings and

568
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: Post of all things, um, and it was just like

569
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: I can't remember the headline, but I just remember on

570
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: the end side just being like no way, no, no.

571
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: I think I also like close the browser and then

572
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: I opened it back up just to like make sure

573
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: that it actually happened. Um. And it was so cute

574
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: because my mom like texted me at like a couple

575
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: of hours after that and she was like, did you

576
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: hear about the news? And I was like, you mean

577
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: the same sex marriage passed and she was like yes,

578
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: isn't that amazing? And as someone who like struggled with

579
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: my parents over like them understanding and this sapping and

580
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: all that for years, like, it was just that amazing

581
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: kind of like full circle moment of like, look at this,

582
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: good can happen? Right, Like, I just felt so much

583
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 1: happier about the future, and I still think about it

584
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: sometimes and I'm like, everyone can get married. I mean,

585
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: that is an amazing thing. There's so much more work

586
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: to be done, but that's an amazing thing. Caroline. That

587
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: was my high point too. We did not plan this,

588
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: We didn't. It's like how we're always dressed alife. We're

589
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: both just in footie pajamas right now. It's really adorable

590
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: covered in tampons. You know, weird. It's weird that we

591
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: both picked the tampon pajamas today. Actually not weird. But

592
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: I did pull an excerpt from Justice Kennedy's opinion because

593
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: it was so beautifully written and should I read it?

594
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: You want to here a little? Okay? So he wrote,

595
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: no union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies

596
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family.

597
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: Informing a marital union, two people become something greater than

598
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: they once were. Their hope is not to be condemned

599
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization's oldest institutions.

600
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: They asked for equal dignity in the eyes of the law,

601
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: and the Constitution grants them that right. And I just

602
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: got chills reading it. It's so exciting. It's still so exciting.

603
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: And um also just great to remember that that happened,

604
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: because recent months have been filled with all sorts of

605
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: just political nastiness. So it's nice to have something to

606
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: look back on to say, hey, Okay, we did something

607
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: good America in UM. And I also want to give

608
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: a shout out to the Women's World Cup and the

609
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: U S team because that was a great moment for

610
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: women women in sports. UM. That finals game was the

611
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: highest rated soccer event ever ever men's women's UM. So

612
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: it was just it was such a cool moment and

613
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: we want back just retired and she's a total badass.

614
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: And of course it also raised issues of Turk disparities

615
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: and gender discrimination and uh wage gaps. But it started conversations,

616
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: important conversations and gave a whole generation of girls role

617
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: models and you know, like adult podcast or ladies too.

618
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I'd take offense at being called an adult.

619
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: Not comfortable with that language. UM well, okay, speaking of

620
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: things were not comfortable with. Thank you for the for

621
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: the segue Holly, Yeah, you didn't realize you're doing that,

622
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: do we did? You guys have any like low points

623
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: of the year that maybe stuck out to you that

624
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: you want to harp on or maybe quickly brush over

625
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: because they suck so bad. There's kind of a creeping lowness,

626
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? There's because we are in,

627
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: as Christian just mentioned, like a gross political time. It's

628
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: a lot of discussion of lady parts and legislation around them.

629
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: But what troubles me most is that we are in

630
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: this weird, divisive time as a country where instead of

631
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: like hearing someone who disagrees with you and we've all

632
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 1: been guilty, I'm not you know, throwing under anyone under

633
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: the bus or judging. It's like the reaction is always

634
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: a little bit defensive and as a consequence, like I'm

635
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: a little concerned, Like when I see someone bring up

636
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: an idea of like, hey, you know, this image is interesting,

637
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: but I it vibes a little sexist to me, and

638
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: I really and when I see women jump in and

639
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: go no, it's not it's a joke. You're being ridiculous,

640
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, you guys, just wait just hang on,

641
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: chill for a minute, hear what they're saying. Like you

642
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: may or may not agree, but they have a point

643
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: of view that is, you know, informed by their life,

644
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: and if they're seeing that, it's worth at least considering

645
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: in a thoughtful way rather than just shouting everything down,

646
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: which is happening across every possible topic right now. But

647
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: it does trouble me when someone brings up like hey,

648
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: I think this might be sexist, and women really jump

649
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: right in to defend it. Now. Granted, there's always situations

650
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: where people are a little cookie and that's fine too,

651
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: but I just the the attack mode all the time

652
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: is very troubling to me. And I think that's sort

653
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: of that perpetuating creep that I feel this year has

654
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: been really fraught with. Yeah, I mean, I think we're

655
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: at a point where it seems politically like you you

656
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: have to almost be one thing or another and be

657
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: angry about it and be almost yelling at somebody who

658
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: has a differing opinion. It seems like there is that

659
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: lack of listening, lack of understanding, and it also seems

660
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: like as many great things happened this year, they also

661
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: come with thing negative, So I mean, you have all

662
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: of these terrible debates over um, the Confederate flag and

663
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: it's heritage not hate. We should still be able to

664
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: fly it, and and all of these disgusting arguments around it.

665
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: And you have the violence in Charleston where innocent people

666
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: were killed. Um, But then you have someone like Brenewso

667
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: who climbs the flagpole at the Capitol Building in Columbia,

668
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: South Carolina, and it was such a beautiful I mean,

669
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: talk about another moment where I got like Tiria and

670
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, look at this woman.

671
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: If she is superhero, she's just because I went to

672
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: school my freshman year in Columbia, South Carolina, and I

673
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: remember going by the state House and being like, are

674
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: you kidding me? Like it was two thousand two, you know,

675
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: people are still it's two thousand two, people who are

676
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: still flying the Confederate flag? Are you kidding me? And

677
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: so to see it finally come down, but come down

678
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: because a woman was just like, screw all all, I'm

679
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: getting up there and I'm taking it down. It was

680
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: such a beautiful moment. But all of that was paired

681
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: with such awfulness and hurt and pain at the same time. Well,

682
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: what I loved especially about her that kind of illustrates

683
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: the point I was being earlier is that when she

684
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: came down, she was very cooperative. She's like, I understand

685
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: it broke the law. That's fine, arrest me. I'm good.

686
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: It's like she was hearing their point of view, but

687
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: she was like, I just want to show you mine

688
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: in a very big way. I loved it. Yeah, she's

689
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: like the real Jessica Jones. Yeah, we have less alcohol problems.

690
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: Maybe some not so much with the addiction and violence

691
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: issues in her life, but with the bad exactly. You

692
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: can't make an omelet without breaking it. That's what I'm saying.

693
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: I think my um slow creative. This maybe completely missing

694
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: mark with this question, but um, I've been talking a lot,

695
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: of course about politics with friends, and a lot of

696
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: my friends are like, Hilary is definitely gonna win the election.

697
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: And for me, I think the thing that I worry

698
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: most about that is I've been kind of thinking about

699
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: how people are going to talk about feminism and gender equality,

700
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, if she does win, right, because we've seen

701
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: with Barack Obama and the whole idea of a pulse

702
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: racial society and racism doesn't exist, and then it's like, well,

703
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: look at like racism is alive and well, like guest

704
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: starring on every feature this year. But I just think about,

705
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: you know, what will that mean because people will say,

706
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: you know, she is in the highest position of the

707
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: free world. I hate that term, um, and and that

708
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 1: that means that women don't really have it that hard,

709
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: right and that gender is irrelevant now and and so

710
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: I wonder what that conversation will look like. Well, I mean,

711
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: so if we're looking at Okay, we have a black

712
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: president finally, um, and if people were claiming that we

713
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: were in a post racial society because of that, they're

714
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: certainly not claiming that anymore. But I mean at the moment,

715
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: you also have Black Lives Matter going on in protests

716
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: after protests going on across this country. So clearly we

717
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: have issues that we still have to address there in

718
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: terms of race. And I think it would be no

719
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: different if if Hillary were to become president. Great, we

720
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: finally have a woman in the White House, like this

721
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: is amazing, But at the same time, we're still having

722
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: the planned parenthood violence. We're still having clinics getting bomb

723
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: doctors being killed, women being harassed. Um, whether they're seeking

724
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: abortions or not. We just for making choices about their bodies.

725
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: Um And so, I mean I would argue that that's

726
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: sort of the parallel about like, black president doesn't mean

727
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: post racial society. We're still we still have open wounds

728
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: in this country. We still have policies that need to shift,

729
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: we still have things we need to fix. Same thing

730
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: if we had a woman president, obviously there's still, you know,

731
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: this ongoing war on women and their choices about their bodies,

732
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: about their families, and about their lives. And I think,

733
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: if anything, the having a black president has only made

734
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: racism in America even more visible, and if we have

735
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: a female president, it will only make sexism, misogyny, and

736
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: the outright hatred of women even more visible. I think

737
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: it only will intensify, and partially because of social media,

738
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: because everybody can yell and um, control your comments. Um. So,

739
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of anticipate things getting worse rather

740
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: than better in a way in terms of that whole

741
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: environment when she is elected. If she's elected, excuse me, Yeah,

742
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: We'll check back with you and see if you are

743
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: the master predictor. I hope that it you know, somehow

744
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: magically dawns on people that oh, look, this is this

745
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: is great. Quality is a wonderful thing. Let's hold hands.

746
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: But I doubt it. You know, you got to go

747
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: through that horrible sort of trial by fire portion and

748
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: then sometime down the road that will have blazed that path,

749
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: so there it will calm down. But I think, yes,

750
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: it's going to be horrifying for a while. Well, it's

751
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: also just been interesting, even within more liberal circles this

752
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: year to kind of have all these conversations around political

753
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: correctness going on, in questions with that of like, at

754
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: what point is all of this you know, awareness and

755
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: calling out of things like just too much? And are

756
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: we impinging on free speech and enough with trigger warnings already.

757
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: So it's kind of, uh, it's definitely caught my attention

758
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: how these conversations are happening across the board, and I

759
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: think across you know, the whole political spectrum um. And

760
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of patients for PC um argument,

761
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think we're all kind of grappling with

762
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: a lot of things, and a lot of it is

763
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: for a good reason that we I mean, I think

764
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: people are forced to pay attention to intersectionality and be

765
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: held accountable for them um in ways that they haven't

766
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: been been before, largely thanks to social media. And that's

767
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: I think where you get the kicking and screaming. It's

768
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: people who are finally confronted with like, hey, like you've

769
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: got to include other people. We don't live in a

770
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: world where it's just white men. We live in a

771
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: world that is so colorful and so multifaceted, and it

772
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: shouldn't be anything but that. It should only be colorful

773
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: and multifaceted, and other people's voices are just as important

774
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: and other people deserve to be heard. And so I

775
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: think there is an element of the population that nothing

776
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: is being taken away from them, but they feel that

777
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: just because other people are finally getting a platform and

778
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: a voice and using their megaphones, They're like, you're you're

779
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: taking away my comfort zone level and you know that,

780
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: And that feels like something's physically being taken away from

781
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: them just because other people are talking. And it's not

782
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: just straight white dudes who are having those issues either too.

783
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's you get down across the

784
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: board talk about conversations and feminism. White feminism is a

785
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: big issue this year. Yes, well, and as we com

786
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, in the LGBTQ community, there's a lot of

787
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, different factions developing, and they do not always agree,

788
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of stuff going on there that

789
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: is the same thing, just gonna. I don't know, I

790
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: don't have the magic everybody be cool, wand but I

791
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: wish I did. Let I'll hear it out, like one

792
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: person's speech doesn't diminish your opportunity to speak. And I

793
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: think some people, like sometimes the most dangerous people are

794
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: the people who have been impressed, right because they felt

795
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: like they're absolved from this idea that they can impress

796
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: other people. Um and and I guess particularly when we're

797
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: talking about privilege and that like sliding scale, like as

798
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: a black woman, like it's so hard you know to

799
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: talk about white feminism sometimes in feminist spaces to talk

800
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: about black hyper masculinity and and how you know, black

801
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 1: women often don't have a space even within the black community.

802
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: Like it's it's really difficult to bridge that gap of like, yes,

803
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: you can oppress people and be oppressed at the same time.

804
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: And I do it too, you know, like I have

805
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: my privileges. There's no tone Paul at all. Well, and

806
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: I think you've sort of highlighted part of the problem

807
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: is that there is a lot of subtlety and range.

808
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: So part of the vehemence issue that's going on that

809
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 1: we're talking about, I think is that it's it's hard

810
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: to peel those onions, like you can't always see all

811
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: the angles, and people often make verbal missteps just out

812
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 1: of you know, kind ignorance. They're not meaning to say

813
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: the wrong things, but it's like we've reached this point

814
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: where everyone is so tired of trying to figure it

815
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: out that they'll just yell instead, like it's easier to

816
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: just pick one talking point and go hold hog with that,

817
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: like they're just gunning it. I think that's part of

818
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: like the seed of this ongoing problem we have of

819
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: lack of communication and kind of just yelling your point

820
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: of view rather than wanting to hear anyone else's crying.

821
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: While we're on killing that a lot of people crying.

822
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: If everyone could just get in a podcast studio, sit

823
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: around a friendly table, have a friendly conversation with Holly's

824
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: wand be cool. Just be cool, that's that's really asked,

825
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: that it would be cool one I'm not trying to

826
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: wield power. That's what I love about it. Just be cool,

827
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: mis and dress right. I called back yesterday. It haven't

828
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: been a while. What mom did it or do you

829
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: want to go into it? I don't even remember. I

830
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: always have people on my mentions on Twitter like I

831
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: just I give up for this week. She gets up

832
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: for right the second, but a couple of seconds from now. Well,

833
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: Holly and Raquel, thank you so much for coming to

834
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: talk to us today. You know you're always welcoming to

835
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: stuff I've never told the studio. It's a delight. I'm

836
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: just gonna start stomping in in the middle of your record.

837
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: What's up? I think about Star Wars totally or Queen

838
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 1: Victoria Vick girl. I'll just shimmy in the background. I've

839
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: been known to inspire people with my shimming. Of course,

840
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: we'll just have like a glitter kid and we come

841
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: in with periodically be cool ones and and inspirational shimmying.

842
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, so, Riquel. Where can people find you on

843
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: the internet. You can find me on Twitter at Raquel

844
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: Willis Underscore. You can find me on I G. The

845
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: Graham Instagram at Raquel Underscore, Willis you can find me

846
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: pretty much anywhere. And also Raquel Willis dot com. I

847
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: actually launched that like about a month ago. I'm really

848
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: proud of it. So yeah, and for the shimmying, I

849
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: think it's really I should do a guift of me

850
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: to send ye oh my god. And I can illustrate

851
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 1: this this episode. I love it. I'm thinking ahead. Uh

852
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Speaker 1: so yeah, missed in History dot com and at missed

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Speaker 1: in History on Twitter and my personal Twitter is at

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Speaker 1: Curtly as the Girl because I'm crampy. Uh and then

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Speaker 1: all of the usual. If you go to missed in

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Speaker 1: History dot com, you'll find all of the stuff you

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Speaker 1: missed in history class connections, so that's probably the easiest.

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Speaker 1: And listeners as always, if you want to send us

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Speaker 1: You're high and Low moments of two thousand fifteen. Moms

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Speaker 1: Stepp at House Stepworks dot Com is our email address.

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00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: You can find us at Mom's Stuff podcast or messages

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Speaker 1: on Facebook. And we don't have any messages for you

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Speaker 1: this week because you know what, we're closing out the year,

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Speaker 1: we're closing out the mailbag, and we just want to

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Speaker 1: hear what your thoughts were on the past twelve months

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Speaker 1: and we hope that everyone has had happy and safe holidays,

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Speaker 1: and as always, you can find all of our videos, blogs, podcasts,

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Speaker 1: you name it over It's Stuff Mom Never Told You

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Speaker 1: dot com. See y'all in for moralness and thousands of

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Speaker 1: other topics. Visit how Stuff Works dot com