Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. The story is of things we simply don't
Speaker 1: know the answer too. Hi, there, welcome once again to
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. That's the show that tackles all the stuff
Speaker 1: mysteries and saulves him every time. I'm Joe, joined as
Speaker 1: always by Steve and Devin inserts Scooby Doo music for
Speaker 1: that intro. Alright, so we have a really hard hitting
Speaker 1: mystery assault and a really fresh off the boat y.
Speaker 1: So this is the story is called the Mad Tlapper
Speaker 1: of Wet waver Yeah, okay, the Mad Trapper of Rat River.
Speaker 1: And some of you may have heard of this. Actually,
Speaker 1: before I forget, I want to mention give a little
Speaker 1: shout out to our listener Jacob, who recommended this particular
Speaker 1: little story to us. Yeah, thanks Jacob. Yeah, okay, let's
Speaker 1: let's take him from the top. One day in July,
Speaker 1: a man calling himself Albert Johnson arrived in Fort McPherson,
Speaker 1: Northwest Territories, Canada, and according to some versions of this story,
Speaker 1: he stayed there long enough to build a boat that
Speaker 1: he was going to use to travel down the Mackenzie River.
Speaker 1: Constable Edgar Millan talked to him but didn't get a
Speaker 1: lot of information from him, I guess for my person
Speaker 1: is probably a pretty small place. So when this one
Speaker 1: and this is way up in the far far north
Speaker 1: of the Northwest Territories, almost to the Beaufort Sea, which
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, it's it's well above the Arctic Circle,
Speaker 1: way up there. Not a lot of people live up there,
Speaker 1: yeah not not probably a happening spot. Yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: Constable Millen Uh said later that he thought that Johnson
Speaker 1: had a Scandinavian accent. Yeah, and a coincidence here Johnson
Speaker 1: eventually killed Milling. But we'll get to that little bit
Speaker 1: later on. Yeah, I know exactly. Little did we know
Speaker 1: at that moment he would see Lie Day like Lie
Speaker 1: dying at the hands of Albert Johnson, not his real name. Okay.
Speaker 1: So anyway, so Johnson got his boat and left and
Speaker 1: went down the Mackenzie River and went up went up
Speaker 1: the Rat River. I don't know why they named it
Speaker 1: the Rat River because it had a lot of rats
Speaker 1: up there, that's true. I don't know about that. Rats
Speaker 1: live everywhere. Yeah, romans live everywhere. That's a good point.
Speaker 1: They're pretty hardy little creatures. Okay. So anyway, he goes
Speaker 1: uh on the banks of the rat River. He builds
Speaker 1: himself in a cozy little eight by ten log cabin.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh, yeah, it's just very cozy eight by ten,
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So he builds this log cabin.
Speaker 1: As it turns out, it had double log walls for
Speaker 1: about the first two or three feet of the of
Speaker 1: the of the wall. On the inside, there's an extra
Speaker 1: layer of logs with earth jammed in between layers of logs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and a nice and a nice little spot to like
Speaker 1: hold hunker down behind with your gun if you're gonna
Speaker 1: get into shoot out. Apparently this guy was looking was
Speaker 1: expecting trouble from day one, so he not only had
Speaker 1: these double log walls, but he had he had also
Speaker 1: cut gun slits all the way around, so you could
Speaker 1: basically cover you know, everywhere around his cabin through these
Speaker 1: slits with his rifle. Yeah, paranoid guy, a little bit,
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah. The local Indians noticed that somebody
Speaker 1: was messing with their traps, you know, you know how
Speaker 1: traps work. Put them out there, and some hapless animals
Speaker 1: steps in him and clump, you know, and clamps onto
Speaker 1: their leg and then they chewed their leg off and
Speaker 1: run away and then you know, get eaten by some
Speaker 1: of the animals because they can't run anymore. So that's
Speaker 1: the way trapping works. So they put. Yeah, so they
Speaker 1: noticed that somebody was tripping their traps and in some
Speaker 1: cases moving them, hanging, hanging them from bushes, trees, whatever.
Speaker 1: So somebody's messing with their livelihood. And since he was
Speaker 1: the only new person around, he was the only thing
Speaker 1: that they changed over the past year, they immediately decided
Speaker 1: it probably was him. So they had complained to the
Speaker 1: Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Yes, the Mounties in Aquavic. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm pronouncing that town's name correctly. Which
Speaker 1: is the nearest town, obviously, And so the day after
Speaker 1: Christmas nineteen one, two constables left Aquavic and tracked the
Speaker 1: sixty miles to his cabin. And I said, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I assuming they did, did the whole dogs led routine,
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure, but yeah, I can't imagine they
Speaker 1: walked there. I can't imagine they walked sixty miles on
Speaker 1: Christmas after circle. Yeah, there's a lot of snow in there,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: dogs led time. Yeah, so they went to Johnson's cabin again,
Speaker 1: did I did I mention it? Sixty miles? Yea to
Speaker 1: question him. Johnson was home, but he refused to talk
Speaker 1: to them or really even acknowledged them. They were knocking
Speaker 1: on the door and and and stuff, and he just
Speaker 1: was pretending like he didn't even hear them, so he
Speaker 1: didn't let them in, and he wouldn't talk to them.
Speaker 1: He didn't hear of them. Yeah, maybe he was deaf, No,
Speaker 1: because I remember reading one of the accounts that he
Speaker 1: had windows, and they went to peer in the windows,
Speaker 1: and here he threw a grainsack in the window. He
Speaker 1: covered the windows so they couldn't see it. Not a
Speaker 1: very sociable fella, but you know, really, you know, he
Speaker 1: probably should have just had a polite conversation with him,
Speaker 1: because he could have avoided a lot of heartache down
Speaker 1: the line. But the constables decided that they needed to
Speaker 1: go get a search warrant, so they returned to Aklavic st.
Speaker 1: Yeah sixty how did twenty miles for nothing? Yeah? They
Speaker 1: made this round trip quite a few times. I think
Speaker 1: it was miles to find out that he's kind of
Speaker 1: a skis. Yeah, I know, he's kind of a sketchy character.
Speaker 1: Five days later they returned with two warm men. Once again,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't top, wouldn't answer the door or anything like that.
Speaker 1: But so one of the constables decided to force the door.
Speaker 1: So he's doing and while he's doing that, suddenly a
Speaker 1: shot rings out. Johnson had fired around through the door,
Speaker 1: which wounded the constable. There a bit of a shootout.
Speaker 1: Nobody else got shot, fortunately, except what would have been
Speaker 1: fortunate if Johnson had gutten shot. Uh. And so they
Speaker 1: scraped up their wounded comrade and headed back to Aklavik
Speaker 1: once again sixty miles And next time they came back
Speaker 1: they had nine men. Where there were mounties, some native
Speaker 1: guys and this is the third time. The third trip
Speaker 1: out were three d sixty miles round trip are three
Speaker 1: hundred miles round trips so far to bring a bunch
Speaker 1: more guys. This is a lot of traveling in an
Speaker 1: age where you can't travel quickly just to talk to
Speaker 1: some dude ye about trap and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you get a hand to these guys there for their
Speaker 1: heartiness because not just the length of the trip, but
Speaker 1: it's this is like December January above the Arctic Circle,
Speaker 1: it's freezing cold. Oh yeah, it's cold. It's like so
Speaker 1: I mean, I've never even experienced these kind of temperatures myself.
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to either. I
Speaker 1: don't need that. Besides the nine men, they also had
Speaker 1: forty two dogs, and they brought just in case, twenty
Speaker 1: pounds of dynamite. I love it. That's good planning. I
Speaker 1: just I just need to blow his ass up, so jects,
Speaker 1: we need to blow him up. I remember in the
Speaker 1: account um, one of the ones that I read, it
Speaker 1: said that they try they had to warm the dynamite up.
Speaker 1: They had to put it inside their cones and warm
Speaker 1: it up to make it even kind of useful, and
Speaker 1: they got like one usable stick out of however many
Speaker 1: they had stuck in their jackets. Imagine that, just, I mean,
Speaker 1: dynamite in that day and age, it's it's nitroglycerin in
Speaker 1: sawdust essentially, is all it is. So yeah, it freezes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah I could. I I personally would not be the
Speaker 1: one who would want to get to do. Hey Kowalski,
Speaker 1: stick this stick of dynamite in your armpit and hold
Speaker 1: it there for five minutes. Did this is a frozen
Speaker 1: stick of dynamite, So it's like your jacket. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, these guys are these guys are hardy fellows.
Speaker 1: So they succeed in throwing the dynamite into the cabin
Speaker 1: and blowing it up. So did they throw it into
Speaker 1: it or in the front of it? I was never
Speaker 1: clear on that. Yeah, I was never entirely clear either.
Speaker 1: It sounded it seemed to me like they either jimmy
Speaker 1: the door and threw it in or threw it in
Speaker 1: through the window. But it might have just like set
Speaker 1: it on the front because his window was probably open
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, it's such a ball afternoon. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could never tell him because I'm thinking that a
Speaker 1: stick of dynamite, because we're going to get into what happens,
Speaker 1: But stick of dynamite in an enclosed space like that,
Speaker 1: he's a pretty concussive blast. Yeah, yeah, that's that's a
Speaker 1: good point. So it might be that it might be
Speaker 1: that they just set it at the front door and
Speaker 1: it just blew the crap out of the whole cabin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: worse knock knock joke ever, Yeah, that reminds me of
Speaker 1: a joke. Was just kidding, but it turns out that
Speaker 1: he was even more paranoid than thought because he had
Speaker 1: dug like a foxhole in the middle of his living
Speaker 1: room I guess, yeah, or living room or bedroom or kitchen,
Speaker 1: I guess it was all. Yeah, so he dug itself
Speaker 1: a foxhole. So he he was uninjured. After they blew
Speaker 1: the crap out of the cabin and they started approaching it,
Speaker 1: and he started he opened fire again and another firefight
Speaker 1: took place, this time no casualties. So eventually the posse decides, well,
Speaker 1: it was about a fifteen hour standoff, and then they
Speaker 1: just said, well, you know what, it's really cold out here.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they left and they went back to Aklavic again,
Speaker 1: and they came back on January fourteenth, nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 1: This time they hadn't even bigger posse. I love that
Speaker 1: this possely just keeps growing and growing. Uh. And this,
Speaker 1: by the way that I mentioned that this was the
Speaker 1: biggest man hunt in Canadian history, it would become that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: eventually turned into that. When they got back this time,
Speaker 1: they found maybe their relief. I'm not sure he'd left
Speaker 1: the cabin shockingly, I mean they blew it up, he
Speaker 1: had I was just gonna, you know, take the sticks
Speaker 1: of logs and just make it into a little lean to.
Speaker 1: It'll be fine. They're definitely I've got a hole in
Speaker 1: the ground, so I'm safe. They haven't proven that they're
Speaker 1: going to come back over and over again. No, very
Speaker 1: good points. Yeah, I think I think it's a pretty
Speaker 1: fair about your shoot a cop. They're probably gonna keep coming,
Speaker 1: coming and coming and coming until they get you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They found when they were turning with that big, huge
Speaker 1: post that he had left the cabin. So they started
Speaker 1: tracking him, and they found by the way along the
Speaker 1: way that he had left a couple of caches of
Speaker 1: food along his trail. He seemed to be really well
Speaker 1: prepared for all this stuff. So the route that he
Speaker 1: used to escape, he was hiding food along that route. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they found Check out this map. I found food caches
Speaker 1: and in these two spots here. Pulled that up to
Speaker 1: the microphone, would you. Yeah, so as you guys can
Speaker 1: clearly see, because I mean I I looked at some
Speaker 1: of the maps of his track. And by the way,
Speaker 1: anybody who has at this point you need to stop
Speaker 1: and take a look at this region. This is we've
Speaker 1: already talked about this a little bit, but it is
Speaker 1: barren and not a place you want to go to
Speaker 1: have a vacation. It is not hospitable. Yeah, that's probably
Speaker 1: one of those places that you know, just freeze in
Speaker 1: the wintertime and then summertime comes around and mosquitoes the
Speaker 1: size of Robbin's come out and suck your plot out
Speaker 1: of your body. I'm sure it's just not a pleasant
Speaker 1: place to live. Oh, I don't think so. Yeah, but apparently, yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy was. This guy was prepared for the apocalypse
Speaker 1: because again he left those food stashes there. They followed him,
Speaker 1: They followed, and they tracked him, and they caught up
Speaker 1: with him. In January thirtieth ninety two, there was another
Speaker 1: shot shootout and this is one Constable Edgar Millen, who
Speaker 1: I mentioned before, was shot and killed. He got shot
Speaker 1: through the heart, so the posse he can mount you
Speaker 1: got shot. So anyway, the posse retreated again and and
Speaker 1: they decided to start recruiting more people. So they got more.
Speaker 1: They especially wanted to get natives since they're very familiar
Speaker 1: with the area. So they got well, and they recruited
Speaker 1: people from two different tribes. Yeah. I don't know if
Speaker 1: tribes is the right, but yeah too. Yeah, but they
Speaker 1: did two different groups. Yeah, and also like just it
Speaker 1: was just a militia at this point, right practice they
Speaker 1: referred to it as I think the local militia just
Speaker 1: coming out and yeah, coming out to go out to
Speaker 1: this Albert Johnson Villa his real name. Uh. So it
Speaker 1: looked like from his tracks that he was headed west
Speaker 1: to the Yukon territories. So one of the first things
Speaker 1: that Matis did is they blocked the passes over the
Speaker 1: Richardson Mountains, which lay between Albert Johnson and the Yukon.
Speaker 1: So there were two passes there. And which way is
Speaker 1: is that mean he's going He's going west west? Okay?
Speaker 1: So he's heading west. Yeah, so headed west kind of
Speaker 1: southwest actually in too Alaska, kind of towards Alaska. Yeah,
Speaker 1: into the Yukon. And then if he kept going at
Speaker 1: the rate that he was going, he would have reached
Speaker 1: Alaska and about another two days. Yeah, the guy traveled fast.
Speaker 1: He covered a lot of ground. That's amazing, especially with
Speaker 1: snow shoes, although they were he figured out a way
Speaker 1: to not use his snow shoes. We'll talk about that
Speaker 1: in a minute. So he's heading for the Yukon. They
Speaker 1: blocked the passes. So in order to get around that,
Speaker 1: Johnson just climbs over a seven thousand foot mountain. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: no special gear and it's January above the Arctic Circle
Speaker 1: and you're at seven thousand feet of altitude. Everything aside
Speaker 1: of what Johnson did, he was tough. He was super
Speaker 1: tough dude, you know he and I was just I
Speaker 1: recently had read about this is he makes me think
Speaker 1: of there's the what are they call him the uk
Speaker 1: or the Utah Killer, the Utah mountain Man. Have you
Speaker 1: heard of this guy? His name is Troy James Knapp,
Speaker 1: and he avoided the authorities for six years, living off
Speaker 1: the land in Utah. I mean he would break into
Speaker 1: cabins and steal food and booze and stuff. But he
Speaker 1: just and they were that kid in Washington, just like
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, Washington State. Do you guys
Speaker 1: remember this. I can't remember what they called him, the
Speaker 1: Barefoot bandit maybe, And he was like stealing people's planes
Speaker 1: and stuff, and like it took him like three or
Speaker 1: four years to find him. And he was just like
Speaker 1: was living up in the forests in Washington, chilling out
Speaker 1: in the woods. Yeah, and he was laid out eighteen
Speaker 1: or nineteen at the oldest. So yeah, I think there
Speaker 1: are some people like this in history that it takes
Speaker 1: quite the constitution. Yeah, it really does. But none of
Speaker 1: them have climbed over a seven thousand foot mountain. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming he didn't climb seven thousand feet. He just went
Speaker 1: over a mountain that was seven thousand feet tall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he might not have actually summited. The mountain has probably
Speaker 1: a couple of thousand feet, but still that's a couple
Speaker 1: of thousand feet in the middle. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if you know this is in the wintertime or not,
Speaker 1: when you're sort of up in the mountains and stuff.
Speaker 1: And he had on an uphill road you'll start I
Speaker 1: remember this up at Mount Saint Helens some some years
Speaker 1: back when caving at night with some princes. Don't ask
Speaker 1: me why. So we had we the road was gated,
Speaker 1: so we had to park our cars and start walk
Speaker 1: hiking up this road. So where we parked our cars
Speaker 1: and snow was about two inches deep and there was
Speaker 1: a gentle rise in the in the road. By the
Speaker 1: time we got to our objective, which was maybe a
Speaker 1: mile off the road, the snow was a foot deep
Speaker 1: and we're not talking to changing altitude here, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how deep the snow must have been
Speaker 1: up in the in that mountain side. Well, so anyway,
Speaker 1: you have to to reiterate he was badass. He was
Speaker 1: like the nineteen thirties equivalent of the honey badger, because
Speaker 1: they didn't have honey badgers I think not in the
Speaker 1: UK the UK. Yeah, okay, one the way back to
Speaker 1: our tail. So the Mounties hired a pilot named Wop
Speaker 1: me and I don't know why he was called Whopp.
Speaker 1: That was a nickname obviously that he had hippies for parents.
Speaker 1: It was a name. It was a nickname. Was w
Speaker 1: P May I think? Yeah, we're his initials. Yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: so WAP was was detailed to scout for tracks and
Speaker 1: such things from the air. He spotted Johnson's tracks on
Speaker 1: the far side of the Richardson Mountains, which alerted the
Speaker 1: Mounties that he had escaped and gotten past the past
Speaker 1: their guys in the passes and it was in the Yukon.
Speaker 1: Another thing that May figured out is that the reason
Speaker 1: they couldn't find tracks for Johnson is that he was
Speaker 1: traveling on the on the Eagle River, which is of
Speaker 1: course frozen solid. And so apparently Cariboo carrible herds like
Speaker 1: to like to travel on frozen rivers because that gives
Speaker 1: them a little bit more space from the trees, so
Speaker 1: they can see predators from a little further away. So
Speaker 1: I'll travel up and down the river. And so he
Speaker 1: was just walking in their tracks, and you couldn't spot
Speaker 1: his tracks and from because all these Cariboo tracks, very
Speaker 1: clever and not using his to be able to not
Speaker 1: use his snowshoes, because those those are very obvious, definite tracks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, because it's and and so that sped
Speaker 1: him up of course, because you guys are snowshooting before, right,
Speaker 1: that's not speedy. The way that what May was able
Speaker 1: to spot this is he was he was traveling up
Speaker 1: the river in his plane, and he spotted some tracks
Speaker 1: leading from the river up the bank. And so there
Speaker 1: were some obvious tracks in the snow, so you could travel,
Speaker 1: but as sooner, you know, he'd have to stop and urinate,
Speaker 1: or maybe stop and make camp for the night, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. I think, yeah, it was for camping. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't know why you I mean, you know, if
Speaker 1: it's if you're the only one out there and you're
Speaker 1: trying to like hide yourself, you would just like pe
Speaker 1: on the trail, right, I mean, you would just stop.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't. I would probably just wet myself because you're
Speaker 1: you're as warm. It's warm util that starts evaporating freezes
Speaker 1: and then get rid of your legs. So what may
Speaker 1: figured this out, And so the mounties started following him
Speaker 1: up the Eagle River, and he was he was a
Speaker 1: crafty guy. He to do stuff like backtrack to throw
Speaker 1: them off and throw them off the trail, and he
Speaker 1: was he was. He was all over the place. They
Speaker 1: calculated at the end of this whole thing, and he
Speaker 1: traveled like, I forget, what, a hundred plus miles in
Speaker 1: three days something. We're diating some huge yeah, an amazing
Speaker 1: amount of yeah, and over a mountain and over a
Speaker 1: mountain and up frozen rivers. They were following off the
Speaker 1: river for quite a while, and then they caught up
Speaker 1: with him on February seventeenth, nineto. It came around a
Speaker 1: bend in the river and there he was. One of
Speaker 1: the one of the constable spotted him first, grabbed his
Speaker 1: rifle and the other ones eventually figured out where he was,
Speaker 1: where he was hiding. There was a big firefight. Uh,
Speaker 1: one of the Mounteins was wounded, but luckily not fatally,
Speaker 1: and then Johnson got killed. And did you did you
Speaker 1: read the accounts of how the how the guy actually
Speaker 1: managed to get the lucky shot, the shot that killed him.
Speaker 1: Is they when they came around the bend and everybody's
Speaker 1: there and Johnson, I guess what he did is he
Speaker 1: just laid flattened the snow, make you know, smaller target obviously,
Speaker 1: and he's shooting back and everybody's shooting at him from
Speaker 1: the edge of the river so that they're not as
Speaker 1: easy to get. But they dispatched one guy to go
Speaker 1: around him in the woods and he and he basically
Speaker 1: got you know, where Johnson's laying in the snow, got
Speaker 1: at about a forty five degree or a ninety degree
Speaker 1: angle away from him, came over a small rise and
Speaker 1: saw him and just took a shot. And that's what
Speaker 1: ended up being the shot that killed him. But it
Speaker 1: was just one guy that somebody had the fourth foresight
Speaker 1: say go flank him, just try and flank him, and
Speaker 1: it worked obviously enough. Yeah, that's actually, when you think
Speaker 1: about it, kind of an obvious thing to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but either way, they so they finally bagged their man,
Speaker 1: because amounts he's always bagged there man. So they searched
Speaker 1: his body and they found a little over in currency
Speaker 1: US and Canadian, which is the equivalent of about sixty too.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of cash. Yeah. They found miscellaneous said
Speaker 1: of stuff too, like a dead bird, a dead squirrel.
Speaker 1: And the food. Yeah that's food. Yeah, sure, that's definitely food. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe just lucky charms. I don't know. He had
Speaker 1: some gold and he also had a small jar that
Speaker 1: had gold teeth in it, which led some people don't
Speaker 1: wonder if maybe perhaps he wasn't a serial killer on
Speaker 1: the top of being all around nice. So they were
Speaker 1: his Yeah, I wasna that they thought it was his teeth.
Speaker 1: Maybe his teeth were falling out. He probably living in
Speaker 1: that cabin. He probably got scurvy and his teeth fell out. Well.
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I heard is that, Okay,
Speaker 1: in this how long was he on the round? A month? Yeah,
Speaker 1: a little over a month, a little over a month.
Speaker 1: And at times he's he was burning The estimate the
Speaker 1: equivalent of about ten tho calories a day with all
Speaker 1: the exertion, and if he's not eating right, and the
Speaker 1: photos that they have of him, he's obviously emaciated. Yeah, seriously,
Speaker 1: not a pounce of fat on him. So I just
Speaker 1: wonder if his tea started falling out. I mean, the
Speaker 1: other thing that they talk about is that you know
Speaker 1: he had guns, but obviously he's on the lamb. He
Speaker 1: can't shoot guns to hunt because it'll give away his location.
Speaker 1: So he like either hand kill or with a knife
Speaker 1: or trap everything that he got. And I don't know
Speaker 1: that he was in particularly fertile land. Yeah, there's not
Speaker 1: that many critters. And you know, you can't really tackle
Speaker 1: a caribou because they're big. They're really big. They're big.
Speaker 1: This guy was. This guy was tough. But you know
Speaker 1: the other thing about it is at least kind of
Speaker 1: an obvious sign because caribou ways so much. Even if
Speaker 1: he succeeded in bringing it down and slitting its throat
Speaker 1: and you get some nice cuts of meat, you have
Speaker 1: to leave it sitting right there in the open where
Speaker 1: it would be found by your trap. With the other
Speaker 1: problem is, of course he wasn't lighting fires. He couldn't
Speaker 1: light a fire at night to warm himself up or
Speaker 1: cook his food, because that would again give aways that
Speaker 1: not brings some of the mystery about this whole thing, right,
Speaker 1: is that how to he survived? How long? And whether
Speaker 1: that cold? I mean, you can make a snow fort
Speaker 1: and that'll keep you kind of warm, but you'll survive.
Speaker 1: You will not be comfortable. It's gonna take its toll. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he probably did hold up in snowcaves, but
Speaker 1: snow castly. He just didn't sleep. I mean, he traveled
Speaker 1: enough that it's totally possible that, Yeah, he just didn't sleep.
Speaker 1: It's nothing about this guy that's a little bit superhuman,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's a lot of weirdness. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think you're probably going to cover some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't want to disturb our listeners. Yeah, so I'll
Speaker 1: let you cover that. About his physical stuff that was
Speaker 1: going on with him. Were talking about, well, he has scoliosis,
Speaker 1: like severe scoliosis, and like weird feet. Yeah, one ft
Speaker 1: was bigger than the other one, stuff like that, so
Speaker 1: he was a little bit deformed. Yeah, which again, okay,
Speaker 1: if if i'm me and I'm in I'm in fit
Speaker 1: or shape than any of today, because I'm not that fit.
Speaker 1: But if I have scoliosis in one foot that's bigger
Speaker 1: than the other, that would make it so hard to
Speaker 1: be trooping through the snow and doing all of that.
Speaker 1: I mean, as a normal person that's not easy. But
Speaker 1: then to have these uh, these handicaps lack of a
Speaker 1: better phrase, how did he do that? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like he was just tough. Just don't make him
Speaker 1: like that. No more fat mystery. Yeah, okay, Well, speaking
Speaker 1: of mysteries, there there actually is a longstanding mystery about
Speaker 1: this guy because nobody ever was able to figure out
Speaker 1: who he really was. They found his body and they
Speaker 1: fingerprinted it, that didn't turn up anything, and they this
Speaker 1: this thing got quite a bit publicity, and so there
Speaker 1: were a few people who came up with with theory
Speaker 1: is there was a family in Nova Scotia, for example,
Speaker 1: who believed that he might have been a relative of theirs.
Speaker 1: The family was the name was Johnson. Hey go figure, Uh,
Speaker 1: they had a relative named Owen Albert Johnston, and they
Speaker 1: thought it might have been him because he had he
Speaker 1: had reportedly gone west, gone to British Columbia, and the
Speaker 1: last they heard from him was a letter they got
Speaker 1: in early nineteen thirty one from a town called rebel
Speaker 1: Stoke in British Columbia, which is always south, but it's
Speaker 1: it's about in the middle of British Columbia. Um, so
Speaker 1: there was there were those guys. An author named Richard
Speaker 1: North came up with the theory saying that that Albert
Speaker 1: Johnson and another guy named Arthur Nelson, and you had
Speaker 1: another guy named John Johnson. We're all one of the same. Yeah, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: he said. And so Arthur Nelson apparently traveled from Lower
Speaker 1: BC up into the Yukon in n ninety one. He
Speaker 1: owned similar guns, Savage M thirty caliber lever action rifle
Speaker 1: and also twenty two although those were really common guns,
Speaker 1: so I don't know that that really means that much,
Speaker 1: but so, yeah, it's similar guns. And uh so he
Speaker 1: thinks they were the same guy. And there was another
Speaker 1: guy named John Johnson from North Dakota, and he believes
Speaker 1: that John Johnson, Arthur Nelson, and Albert Johnson were all
Speaker 1: the same person. John Johnson did time in prison. Um,
Speaker 1: Sam Quentin and Fulson, right, yeah, yeah, luxurious places especially
Speaker 1: that here is just a really really wonderful play well,
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash liked it. Yeah. So this author, Richard North
Speaker 1: North trace john Johnson's or some people call him Johnny Johnson,
Speaker 1: traced him back to Norway. He was born Johan Codrad
Speaker 1: Johnson in in northern Norway, also north of the Arctic Circle,
Speaker 1: which would explain why he's so easily able to Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's then able to deal with this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Uh So that was a that was a long standing theory,
Speaker 1: and that was that was a nice theory. But did
Speaker 1: I mention No, I know I didn't. But in two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven they exhumed Albert Johnson's corpse and did
Speaker 1: some DNA test. Was the Discovery Channel, right, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: it was sponsored by I think they paid for the
Speaker 1: whole thing. And so they dug him up and everything,
Speaker 1: did a bunch of lab tests and DNA and stuff
Speaker 1: and stuff. And so if anybody has the time for
Speaker 1: any of our listeners, that this is available on the
Speaker 1: internet to watch, and it's about a fifty minute video
Speaker 1: and it gets a reenactment of the whole chase and
Speaker 1: all of that's very dramatic. Oh and he took a shot.
Speaker 1: But what's really interesting is how hard it was to
Speaker 1: dig him up, like this guy was so hard to
Speaker 1: catch and kill, and he and after he died and
Speaker 1: they buried him and they went to digging back up.
Speaker 1: He was so hard to dig up. It was like
Speaker 1: he was fighting though everything that people did well because
Speaker 1: were they didn't know. They had a marker for his grave,
Speaker 1: but they weren't sure that that was exactly the right spot,
Speaker 1: and it was within fly feet, but we're talking in
Speaker 1: the Arctic circle, so we got permafros. It's frozen, and
Speaker 1: they had a bacco in there, and they I think
Speaker 1: they broke the bucket on the back of like first
Speaker 1: of doing it with shovels and picks and axes, and
Speaker 1: then they get a bacco in there, and the bacco
Speaker 1: is having trouble it. I think they were allotted let's
Speaker 1: say three days. It's been a while since I watched
Speaker 1: the video. There were a lot of a couple of days.
Speaker 1: And they only got in there because they said, we
Speaker 1: will dig him up and then we will bury him again.
Speaker 1: Everything will be respectful and according to traditions of the
Speaker 1: local people, so we will. We won't disturb anymore than
Speaker 1: we have to. But they had this very small window.
Speaker 1: I think it actually was twenty four hours now that
Speaker 1: they think about it, and they were freaking out because
Speaker 1: they couldn't get to the body did deep enough and
Speaker 1: they couldn't find him. He was just y, I just
Speaker 1: see that, you know this, this guy's goes to be
Speaker 1: like No. Yeah, I think they used they used ground
Speaker 1: pen and trading radar to actually actually make pinpoint the
Speaker 1: location of his body before they started digging. Not what
Speaker 1: I saw, but I mean it's hard to say. I
Speaker 1: mean I watched it, but again it's been a little
Speaker 1: bit since I've seen it, but I just remember them
Speaker 1: frantically trying to find it. Yeah, I believe I can't
Speaker 1: remember the precise date when they did that, but I
Speaker 1: believe it was summer, like July something like that. But yeah.
Speaker 1: Still still yeah, and what crossed by definition is always frozen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so in wintertime you can just forget about it. The
Speaker 1: PERMA stands for permanently. Yeah, in case somebody was unclear
Speaker 1: about that. You know, it took me a long time
Speaker 1: to figure it out. Yeah. So yeah. So anyway, so
Speaker 1: so they exhumed him, and that gave that gave everybody
Speaker 1: a chance to retire a lot of these theories because
Speaker 1: they took DNA because I took DNA from the body.
Speaker 1: And then so they were able to find relatives of
Speaker 1: Johan Conrad Johnson, and well it turns out no, no
Speaker 1: DNA match. Same for the Johnston family in Nova Scotia. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was another writer named Mark fremer LYD. Sorry Mark,
Speaker 1: if I mispronouncing your name. Is that Johnson was actually
Speaker 1: a guy named Sigvald Petterson Hans Hanks Jold. I think
Speaker 1: something like that. I mispronounced that. I'm sure now, yeah,
Speaker 1: And and that was he. He had a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting reasons to back the theory up. So he was
Speaker 1: kind of a paranoid person who debates innovaded service in
Speaker 1: World War One. He was worried he was still gonna
Speaker 1: be capped, going to be caught and punished for that.
Speaker 1: He apparently did take up residents in British Columbia, built
Speaker 1: himself a little fortress cabin just like the kind of
Speaker 1: cabin that Albert Johnson built, and some somewhat further south
Speaker 1: in British Columbia, and then and then left and disappeared.
Speaker 1: And so you know, that's an attractive theory that there
Speaker 1: could have been this guy. But now, uh, ha. The
Speaker 1: DNA defeated that theory too. And the other thing that
Speaker 1: I remember, correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, is that
Speaker 1: when they exhumed the body and they examined his teeth,
Speaker 1: they figured out that he grew up somewhere where they
Speaker 1: corn all the time. Is that right? Apparently? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: they decided that they found isotopes in his teeth that
Speaker 1: led them to believe that he couldn't be of Canadian origin,
Speaker 1: and he either was from the midwest of the US,
Speaker 1: the corn belt, or from Scandinavia. Now, I don't remember
Speaker 1: a lot of corn being grown in Scandinavia. That's what
Speaker 1: I never understood. I have no idea what either there.
Speaker 1: But uh, I mean it might be pickled fish or
Speaker 1: something filthy fish or something like that. Yeah, and potatoes lots, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But it's the corn thing is when I couldn't. I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I couldn't put a bead on that because, Okay, I
Speaker 1: can see the Midwest, the girl our corn there, but Candindia,
Speaker 1: maybe they imported a lot of corn. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe I and I don't know, I know, I don't
Speaker 1: know that exactly as the corn. It might be that
Speaker 1: they said they believe he might be from the corn belt.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So I was thinking when they said corn,
Speaker 1: it was based on like, you know, people who corn
Speaker 1: a lot like the I think was was the asd
Speaker 1: actually knew the corn all the time because the way
Speaker 1: their teeth were worn down, and so I I presumed
Speaker 1: that it was that same. But if it's an isotope,
Speaker 1: that's very isotopes. Yeah, and so it might be that
Speaker 1: certain minerals in the ground. I don't know. That explains
Speaker 1: why I was completely wrong. And that's you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it could be right. I don't know that with water
Speaker 1: usually because less with the ground, because I guess in
Speaker 1: the thirties it was less though, but now we can
Speaker 1: tell from the water because you don't import water from anywhere,
Speaker 1: whereas our food comes from everywhere. Good point. But I
Speaker 1: think in the thirties that was probably not so much
Speaker 1: of a thing. Yeah, not nearly as much food swapping
Speaker 1: as we had today. Well so anyway, Yes, So after
Speaker 1: his exhumation, all all the so far known candidates were
Speaker 1: ruled out, and again they did. They did figure out
Speaker 1: that little bit about his origins from his teeth. That's
Speaker 1: the mystery. We still don't know who Albert Johnson really was.
Speaker 1: And they released some pictures, right, released pictures, but he
Speaker 1: didn't look that hot. Yeah, you guys should go look
Speaker 1: at the pictures of that are because it's it's just
Speaker 1: so interesting. Honestly, I don't know. If somebody were like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you idea this person, I would say it's a human.
Speaker 1: I think I the human man probably, But the pictures
Speaker 1: aren't a great quality, and he's not looking so great.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that they carried his body for weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know how long he was dead before they
Speaker 1: managed to get pictures of him, so that might have
Speaker 1: been part of it too. Well. I was I was
Speaker 1: earlier saying to you guys that, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: he just kind of looked like a demon or something
Speaker 1: some kind. And you know, we've looked at death pictures before,
Speaker 1: um specifically with the Tom and Shrewd case, but with others.
Speaker 1: We've looked at pictures of people who are dead, and
Speaker 1: they do look different than they do when they're alive.
Speaker 1: But this guy creepy. Yeah, now he is creepy. Creepy,
Speaker 1: and that's why it was anti socially got tired of
Speaker 1: being rejected. Maybe he actually was that creepy. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: it wasn't. He didn't talk to anybody. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what he talked to me people? Oh didn't they say
Speaker 1: at one point, sorry that that nobody in the Mounties
Speaker 1: actually heard him speak throughout the entire time. The only time.
Speaker 1: The only noise they heard him make was when he
Speaker 1: laughed when he shot somebody. Yeah, and he shot Constable
Speaker 1: Miller and he ely laughed. Yeah, and that's what they
Speaker 1: heard from him. Yeah, that's so weird. Yeah, it's for creepy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He didn't yell anything like come and get me coppers
Speaker 1: if you can, or nothing like that. I just wantn't
Speaker 1: be left alone. Yeah, you know it kind of it
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if he wasn't mentally handicapped. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: here this is a terrible example. But I just recently
Speaker 1: watched again sling Blade, and if you've ever watched that movie, okay, well,
Speaker 1: in that movie, Billy Bob Thornton plays guy who's mentally handicapped,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't talk a lot, and it's very short,
Speaker 1: it's very simple, and he talks kind of funny, but
Speaker 1: he didn't talk a lot, and so I it I
Speaker 1: as I was watching that after having read about this,
Speaker 1: It's like, I wonder if maybe he had a mental
Speaker 1: condition and so he was very bad with language, so
Speaker 1: he just didn't talk or just some people just don't respond.
Speaker 1: Talking is not their way to communicate. They just don't
Speaker 1: don't talk to people. And that would explain why nobody
Speaker 1: liked him. The locals who were saying it was him
Speaker 1: because they came up to him and they said, hey,
Speaker 1: did you mess with my trap? And he just stared
Speaker 1: at him, didn't say a word, tries to you know,
Speaker 1: the guy that was Willis? Is that who tried to
Speaker 1: talk to him? Is that the guy when Millan tried
Speaker 1: to talk to him. Yeah, when Millan, when he tried
Speaker 1: to talk to him he first came to town, got
Speaker 1: almost nothing out of him because he just didn't talk
Speaker 1: to him him. I just looked at him and probably
Speaker 1: didn't understand what was going on. He said. Nolan said
Speaker 1: that he spoke that that that that they spoke, and
Speaker 1: then he he said that he had a slight He
Speaker 1: appeared to have a skin in the Avian accent. He thought,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't sound like they really communicated a lot.
Speaker 1: But that sounds like he was able to talk well,
Speaker 1: but he might have, you know, finally gave in and
Speaker 1: and said five words and it was done. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: could have been. It's hard to say. Yeah. But there
Speaker 1: was also the the guy when he stayed in Fort
Speaker 1: McPherson to build to build that boat, that he hired
Speaker 1: a local to help him, and so there was some
Speaker 1: talking going on. So apparently he wasn't totally sociable. But
Speaker 1: because it was capable of Okay, yeah, I know that,
Speaker 1: then that kills my theory. I completely forgot about that part.
Speaker 1: But here's there's one of the things that puzzles me
Speaker 1: is that this was very much publicized. It was that
Speaker 1: that was back in the days of radio and not TV,
Speaker 1: but the word got out and it was this was
Speaker 1: a huge media spectacle, at least by the standards of
Speaker 1: that day. And so you would think that if he
Speaker 1: had any family, then you know, they they would have
Speaker 1: heard about this and they're saying that sounds like uncle Fred,
Speaker 1: it's a little a little screwy and you know, very
Speaker 1: very good in the woods and just voted most likely
Speaker 1: to murder somebody. And so you think more of these
Speaker 1: families we would be coming forward to saying Hey, I
Speaker 1: would think that might be one of our relatives. So
Speaker 1: but the problem is this is this is in the
Speaker 1: time of right around the Great Depression, so there are
Speaker 1: all kinds of people who were on the move, scattering,
Speaker 1: just trying to find work and to live. So I
Speaker 1: can I mean, there's there's so many families that just
Speaker 1: broke apart. They went in every direction under the sun
Speaker 1: just to try to find something in lost contact. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's also possibly didn't have any family because
Speaker 1: you know, people die and all that. Yeah, I supposing
Speaker 1: he was an only child and his parents were both
Speaker 1: or something like that. Did they did they ever figure
Speaker 1: out how old he thought he was? I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: and then they that was like people identified him as
Speaker 1: being at that age at the time, and then when
Speaker 1: they when they exhumed his body, they tested it for
Speaker 1: for age too, and then they were guessing about mid thirties.
Speaker 1: I guess. You know. My thing would be if he
Speaker 1: had a Scandinavian accent of any kind, that means he
Speaker 1: had to have lived there for a fair portion of
Speaker 1: his childhood at least. It's totally possible that he emigrated
Speaker 1: as a teenager or as a kid on his own
Speaker 1: and that this story maybe never made it really to
Speaker 1: Scandinavia and therefore they didn't come forward and say, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's our kid. It made it to Scandinavia, but it
Speaker 1: was in Canadian, so they weren't able to understand because
Speaker 1: nobody else speaks Canadian. Yeah story, yeah yeah yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it could be that his family was back
Speaker 1: in Scandinavia and they never really got word of This
Speaker 1: could be an orphan yeah, probably wasn't more North America
Speaker 1: and phenomenon in Church of dis coverage. Yeah, uh so
Speaker 1: it could in our phone or or maybe maybe his
Speaker 1: family is kind of like him and they don't really
Speaker 1: want to have contact with the authorities. So anyway, here's
Speaker 1: my action plan for solving this mystery. Oh boy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's all get out our phone books and call everybody
Speaker 1: with the last name Johnson. Everybody wait, well wait, no,
Speaker 1: we we've talked about this. Yeah, nobody but you has
Speaker 1: phone books, I know, so nobody else is going to
Speaker 1: do that. It's all on your shoulders. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: out on a limit for your and predict, by the way,
Speaker 1: that the phone book is going to come back into style.
Speaker 1: And you know why, have you ever tried to look
Speaker 1: at somebody's phone number online? Yeah? Yeah, and you know
Speaker 1: how they won't give it to you unless you pay them. No,
Speaker 1: everybody has a Facebook page and nobody knows how to
Speaker 1: secure it, so you always get that stuff. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you know, but seriously, if you're trying to find if
Speaker 1: you're not Facebook friends with somebody and then they're not
Speaker 1: on Facebook, try finding their phone number anymore. With what
Speaker 1: the internet, it drives me nuts. Really, page is dot
Speaker 1: com white pages not come? They still totally do it? Yeah, okay, yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's sites out there, it's just unfortunately the
Speaker 1: a lot of people figure out how to game Google,
Speaker 1: and so when you do a search for anything like that,
Speaker 1: their stuff always comes up first. Because he's never going
Speaker 1: to give up on the phone book. Ever, I actually
Speaker 1: don't use the phone book very much at all. It's
Speaker 1: because he needs to sit on it to reach things.
Speaker 1: That's right. If I'm gonna reach that top cupboard, change
Speaker 1: the light bulb, I needs seventeen phone books. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you guys have any other theories. No, I tried to.
Speaker 1: I tried to find any kind of record of the
Speaker 1: whole Johnny Johnson which was the fugitive that that had
Speaker 1: made his way to the Yukon or the northern area.
Speaker 1: I tried to look up other people like that, and
Speaker 1: I could never I mean, it's really hard to find
Speaker 1: people that would fit that bill, let alone record of them.
Speaker 1: Sometimes when they disappeared, they just disappeared. You didn't Yeah,
Speaker 1: and unless it was that day and age and you
Speaker 1: could talk to the people who are around, it just
Speaker 1: didn't get recorded. I tried to look up stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and I just dead end after dead end. I just
Speaker 1: started giving up. So these guys don't These guys don't
Speaker 1: go out in the don't go out in the web
Speaker 1: and just sign up for that that that that user group.
Speaker 1: That's like in a solitary movie. Loanersize don't have a
Speaker 1: special group out there. No, No, they don't do that.
Speaker 1: I guess in the wood sucks kind of like a
Speaker 1: special ops officer of some kind from some country or another,
Speaker 1: maybe the US, maybe the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or
Speaker 1: whatever they have that is equivalent to special forces or something.
Speaker 1: You know, his skill, his drive to like flee, his
Speaker 1: talent and surviving those are things that usually I think
Speaker 1: of as somebody who has some training, and I guess
Speaker 1: it's it's totally plausible to me that somebody, you know,
Speaker 1: was in the war and then it was discharged and
Speaker 1: they were like, I just want to go do nothing
Speaker 1: for a really long time kind of stuff. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that that would explain why they didn't want to talk.
Speaker 1: Maybe they were on the lamb. Maybe he was just
Speaker 1: didn't really want to talk to anybody. Maybe he thought
Speaker 1: he would kill somebody if he talked to them. Maybe
Speaker 1: he thought he'd hulk out, you know, I mean he did,
Speaker 1: he hulked out, like that's exactly what happened. Um. So
Speaker 1: for me, you know a little bit wonder if there's
Speaker 1: some kind of armed forces background in the mix there.
Speaker 1: But again, there's just no evidence. There's no good anything,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't really explain why somebody didn't see that
Speaker 1: and think, oh, yeah, that's Johnson from you know, the
Speaker 1: Seals or whatever. Yeah, they didn't have seals, whatever they have,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter Green berets. Yeah. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: it would think that somebody out there would have made
Speaker 1: the connection, you know, some families, friends, whatever, But it
Speaker 1: sounds like this guy didn't have a lot of friends. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the other thing though, is that we all
Speaker 1: we I mean, this was highly publicized. But I think
Speaker 1: that we've got to also remember that our frame of
Speaker 1: reference for the phrase highly publicized is much different than
Speaker 1: what it was in nine one, which was radio broadcasts
Speaker 1: and newspapers. And the radio would cover a story and
Speaker 1: then they would run it again an hour or two later.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like I could just go on to
Speaker 1: Google and look it up or it was easy to
Speaker 1: get this. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't easy to get
Speaker 1: that information. So if I'm you know, I see it
Speaker 1: and then I leave town and I'm up in the
Speaker 1: woods where I'm out in the field doing whatever I'm
Speaker 1: doing for work, and then I come back from the
Speaker 1: apple orchard and oh, well the story's gone, But hey,
Speaker 1: what happened? Oh yeah, I don't really remember. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's much harder to for those things
Speaker 1: to be as widely known, and I think that frame
Speaker 1: of reference is something that we can easily forget. And
Speaker 1: that's and then it's you know, in the thirties too,
Speaker 1: there were still people who lived in the wo was
Speaker 1: no electricity, we were plumbing, and you know, wasn't everywhere
Speaker 1: no it really wasn't. It was like not in a
Speaker 1: lot of places. So yeah, so you might have had
Speaker 1: family who knows, But I don't think. I think we're
Speaker 1: probably never going to find out unless we round up
Speaker 1: every Johnson in the phone book. Yeah, if his name
Speaker 1: was truly I think you have a fatal flaw in
Speaker 1: your theory. Well maybe we should like to expand our
Speaker 1: search to Johnson, not just Johnson's, but Johnston's and jo Hansen's.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, if I were going to go
Speaker 1: into hiding, I would pick Johnson or Smith my name,
Speaker 1: you know, like something super john Johnson. How generic can
Speaker 1: you make it? Yeah, Albert Johnson is pretty generic too,
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that it's just a flaw to
Speaker 1: believe he abbreviated his name when he had it put
Speaker 1: in the phone book, so he'd be the first Johnson
Speaker 1: in the book. He was a Johnson, That's why h
Speaker 1: chose Albert. Okay, well, if we're going to go with
Speaker 1: Joe's phone book theory, why not Yeah? Yeah, anyway, I
Speaker 1: don't know. The whole thing is still kind of a
Speaker 1: head scratcher. You know, why he didn't just talk to
Speaker 1: the cops and just say, hey, no, don't don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, sir, you know, or yeah, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that was against the rules. Also, yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: it was. It was on my property. I thought I
Speaker 1: could do what I wanted on my property. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So yeah, he could have avoid a lot of heartburn
Speaker 1: if you've just been a little more cooperative and not
Speaker 1: shot at him. Well that's famous last words for a
Speaker 1: lot of people. Unfortunately. I guess I just don't like
Speaker 1: the man and don't want to cooperate because they don't
Speaker 1: think they should have to. And I'm kind of getting
Speaker 1: that's what his mind set. Yeah, well, you never know.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm kind of going back and forth on
Speaker 1: this and whether he wanted to commit suicide by cop,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you have to know that if you shoot,
Speaker 1: if you shooting't win the policeman, sooner or later, they're
Speaker 1: going to come back with more guns and more people
Speaker 1: and finish the job. Let's be honest, though, if you
Speaker 1: want to commit suicide by cop, you don't climb over
Speaker 1: a seven thousand foot mountain in the middle of the
Speaker 1: winter in the circle to escape. Said. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: the part that's sort of conscious. But when you think
Speaker 1: about it. His his shooting of the constable in the
Speaker 1: beginning of this whole story, it really made no sense.
Speaker 1: It wasn't necessary at all. They were trying to break
Speaker 1: into his house, make sense, you know, they were trying
Speaker 1: to force their way in. Yeah, he probably freaked out,
Speaker 1: shot through the door. Yeah. Maybe he was taking a
Speaker 1: nap and suddenly, oh my god, sleeping through all the
Speaker 1: ruckets outside of everybody yelling at him and knocking on
Speaker 1: the door. Yeah, he was a deep sleeper. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what was going on. Okay, another mystery solved, solved. Solved.
Speaker 1: So you folks are probably wanting to know more more
Speaker 1: cool stuff about how to find us, how to get
Speaker 1: hold of us and everything like that. Well, you can
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, and of course you can like us.
Speaker 1: You really should like us. Like us, yeah, you really
Speaker 1: like me. Yes. You can also find us, of course,
Speaker 1: on on Stitcher. If you want to stream this live
Speaker 1: or if you want to just download and put it
Speaker 1: in your on your iPod, then you can go to iTunes.
Speaker 1: You'll find us out there. Send us a message. You
Speaker 1: can use our email account, which is Thinking Sideways Podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And let's see that I leave
Speaker 1: anything out website. Oh yeah, we have a website. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: our website is thinking Sideways podcast dot com. And we'll
Speaker 1: have all the links to the story. I think we'll
Speaker 1: probably have the picture, the post boredom picture there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have gone so you can find all the
Speaker 1: links to this story and more you'll find we'll probably
Speaker 1: have the links of the video. And there's a website
Speaker 1: that I found that has a very very detailed rundown
Speaker 1: of the entire man hunt, a lot of details that
Speaker 1: I left out. I kind of gave you the glossy
Speaker 1: overview here. Uh and uh's see maybe yeah, well that
Speaker 1: disgusting picture of him dead and maybe it is disgusting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe a kind of a cool little map that shows
Speaker 1: his little trick that the rout of his little trick
Speaker 1: that he took. And h I don't know what else
Speaker 1: are we gonna put out there? Maybe a picture of
Speaker 1: a kitten? Oh my gosh, yeah, apparently we're just putting
Speaker 1: out everything. We are. So many pictures this week, so many? Yeah,
Speaker 1: can I put a unicorn y? How about a unit kitten?
Speaker 1: I think that's perfect. Yeah, that's better than the death photo.
Speaker 1: How about a Uni Avocado Soldier. I haven't seen that. Well,
Speaker 1: you'll have to show that, Okay, okay, I want to
Speaker 1: see that one alright. Well anyway, that's it. Like I said,
Speaker 1: another mystery salt and uh you know, tune in next
Speaker 1: week when we saw another mystery So for Thinking Sideways podcast,
Speaker 1: I just want to say ta ta by everybody.