1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we talk 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: about some of the biggest issues here in the world 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: of sports. And we've got some big ones going on 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: right now. One we're talking about live golf and now 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: we're talking about lawsuits filing all over the place. Is 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: it and a legal monopoly according to what the golfers 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: that are saying on the live tour against the p 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: g A. And with us is Dan Lust. He is 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: an attorney for the New York City office of Garrig 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Ghost and Gary Ghost. Dan, thank you so much for 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: talking with us here. My pleasure to join you, and 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: this is one of the biggest sports poll stories, and 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, in our in our world of sports and 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: sports business, it's a pretty busy time for us, so 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: I'm certainly happy to join you and happy to break 16 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: it down. Let's just start it right from the top. 17 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: Is the p g A and a legal monopoly according 18 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: to what some live golfers are saying for barring them 19 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: from playing in p g A events. I think we 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: should start there, and I think it probably impoored Delman 21 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: to know these golfers right, they're not employees as you 22 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: would normally see in a traditional sports league like the 23 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: NBA or Major League Baseball, where there was a real 24 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: where there are employees, there is a union that collectively 25 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: bargains for in their behalf. Um. The golf is made 26 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: up of what we call independent contractors, which outside of 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: sports is more you know, is easily define able by 28 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: like a plumber or an electrician. Right, they could do 29 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: whatever they want. Um. So it is odd to see 30 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 1: an entity like the p g A essentially issue punishments 31 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: to what we would call right as in the law 32 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: of freelancers, people that are not really under contract by 33 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: the p g A. So that's at the heart of 34 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: this dispute. Ken an entity that is not technically the 35 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: employer of someone exert a level of control over what 36 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: you would typically do over an employee. Those are the 37 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: optics of this lawsue. Right, Why can't golfers compete in both? 38 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: That's the question at the heart of this case. So 39 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: that's really interesting the way you put it. And I'm 40 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: gonna go off script a little bit here because whatever 41 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: happens in this lawsuit, let's say that it does go 42 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: to court and there's a ruling that could have implications 43 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: for say Uber and the drivers who drive for Uber 44 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: and also drive for Lift for instance. Yeah, I mean 45 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: it's it's tough. These sports cases tend to be in 46 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: their own little box to some extent, right I think, Uh, 47 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: you know what we're having litigated almost simultaneously major League 48 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: Baseball's antitrust exemption. Uh, the n c a A is 49 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: being accused of being a monopolistic enterprise. This, Uh, you 50 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: know the the maybe Honestly, if we're trying to figure 51 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: out the intersects between business and law, why these cases 52 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: are popping up is because the business of law is increasing. Right, 53 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: you have billion dollar television contracts popping up left and right. 54 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: In the world of you know, the DVR era, Right, 55 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: people are not watching anything live other than sports. So 56 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: because the money is so good in that television world. 57 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: In the media world, you have these players, right, the 58 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: player empowerment era. They want a piece of it. So 59 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: that's why it's being challenged at really all levels. At 60 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: the baseball level, with the minor leaguers, at the college level, 61 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: with now college athletes, you know, whispering about maybe creating 62 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: their own union, and certainly with these lift golfers taking 63 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: the bag and going to play for the lift forre 64 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: so it's not not a coincidence by any means. As 65 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: we sit here in bar it sounds like with more 66 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: money comes more problems, legal problems. Oh my goodness. Yes, 67 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing about it too, is that let's put 68 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: aside by the way, and I know there are personal 69 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: thoughts about about the Saudi backed tour because of what 70 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: happened to Jamal Kashogi and possible connections to nine eleven, 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: but we're talking about the legal aspect of this, which 72 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: brings me to the next point. According to what Live 73 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: Tour players are saying, unprecedented suspensions, the bottom line is 74 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: can the p G A get away with it? Uh? Well, 75 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: here's here's the thing. Right, from an academic perspective, we've 76 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: kind of known this was under word and works for maybe, 77 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple of months and Pil Nicholson 78 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: had his comments out there. Um so Phil is at 79 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: the head of this lawsuit, right, and the players are alleging, 80 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: just at their heart of hearts at these suspensions are 81 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: costing them money. I think we can point out that farce, 82 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: at least for some of the players, got Phil Nicholson's 83 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: being guaranteed over nine figures and guaranteed money with this contract. 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: So for some of the golfers, of the eleven ones 85 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: named in the complaint, some of them are making far 86 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: more in terms of their net earnings than they would 87 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: just with the p g A. So that's interesting there. 88 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: The question is whether the PGA can uphold these suspensions, 89 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: whether they will stick. Um. I think it's an interesting one, right, 90 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: And you point out in terms of our you know, 91 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: free enterprise law, anti trust law, it doesn't really matter 92 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: what the you know, if the competing entity has ties 93 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: to the Saudi government. Right, our government on the walls 94 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: of the United States want to incentivize the free competition. 95 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: Right can go back to Microsoft, Google, Apple, any of 96 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: these big companies. They want to increase competition. So the 97 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: live tour, right, it might be backed by you know, 98 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: purportedly Saudi money, but it's still, you know, in some respects, 99 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: just the golf organization. That's why you have these golfers 100 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: when they make these public comments, the live golfers, Hey, 101 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: I'm just the golfer. I just want to compete, and 102 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: I want to play golf, and I want to get 103 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: paid to play golf. So the courts aren't going to 104 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: be concerned as to the poor optics of maybe what 105 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: how lives back by But um, you know, I think 106 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: it's going to be tested here. We've known this would 107 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: be tested for a while. The PGA has not had 108 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: any competition, and the second they have a sniff of 109 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: a competition, you know, first time in many many years 110 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: they're issuing suspensions and fines. So the Department of Justice 111 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: has opened up an investigation and now this lawsuit comes 112 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: right on the heels of it. Uh. Not not a 113 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: good look if you're a fan of the PGA. Looks 114 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: looks like they might be in trouble here. Yeah. I 115 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: like the way you put that that lives Golf could 116 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: be backed by the Human Rights Watch group, for instance, 117 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: and this would still be on on the legal merits, 118 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: or it'd still be a case that could be made. 119 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: So if and this is a big if, Dan, if 120 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: you were the lawyer for PGA Tour, what would be 121 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: your argument for why, uh this lawsuit is frivolous without 122 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: if you could try, Yeah, I think you could try 123 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: to say in the rules right that these players subscribed 124 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: to when they signed up for the PGA Tour, just 125 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: like you know, we can talk about plumbers and electricians. Right, 126 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: If I have a plumber works in my house and electrician, 127 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: I might give him certain codes of conduct. Hey, listen, 128 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: if you're working for me, you know you said you're 129 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: gonna come to my house between twelve and one on 130 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: a Thursday. I don't want to go into my neighbor's 131 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: house between twelve and one and Thursday. There is some 132 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: level of control that the PGA Tour, even as an entity, 133 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: it's not a true employer they can exert over their 134 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: independent contractors. It's it's certainly there. It's not like they 135 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: can't have any level of control. I think that's the 136 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: PGAs argument that hey, we're not telling them they can't 137 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: compete and live tour. We're not. We're not punishing them 138 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: necessarily because they're competing in the live event. We're just saying, hey, 139 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: we don't want you to do both at the same time. 140 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: If you contract to be my plumber from twelve to 141 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: one on a Thursday, and the weekday, you really can't 142 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: over to my neighbor's house. I mean, that's that's not 143 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: really fair. I think that's the argument that, hey, we 144 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: are not overstepping our lines with the exact the level 145 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: of control we are exerting. But you know we we 146 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: had certain rules, they agreed to them and they violated them. 147 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: Maybe it's as simple as that. If you're the p 148 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: g A, but aren't golfers allowed to play in other 149 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: tournaments organized by other entities, Well that's that's what the 150 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: argument is. Right, these players are saying, why can't I 151 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: compete in both? The PGA is coming back and saying, listen, 152 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: you can say you can compete in both. We are 153 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: not stopping you from competing in the live events. It 154 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: would be different, right if they said you are being 155 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: punished because you're wanting to compete in some outside event. 156 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 1: What's the question is is whether you can do both 157 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: things at the same time. It would be very different 158 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: if in the PGA statements they came out and said, 159 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: you the players are being suspended, fined and punished because 160 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: they're competing. You know, they're with a separate entity. And 161 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: I think the PGAs Tours comments have not really said that, right, 162 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: They've just tried to say, um, you know, they've tried 163 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: to stirt around this issue a little bit, but the 164 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, they might be in trouble. Right. Earlier reports 165 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: were leaked that these players might be banned for life 166 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: if they competed in the live event. Now, Jay Monahan, 167 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: the commissioner of the PGA, he hasn't come out right 168 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: and said it, but he's watching his comments very closely 169 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: because if there is right a lifetime ban explicitly because 170 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: you played for a lifetime entity, the court will probably 171 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: view that right as being unfair unfairly competitive, right just 172 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: purely because you have a competitor, you're banning this person 173 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: for life. So it's is a little bit of a 174 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: gray area and untested woman respect to call Dana, and 175 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: we're running out of time, but I do want to 176 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: bring up one point, and this is about the CEO 177 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: of Live, Greg Norman. He was recently on with Tucker 178 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: Carlson and Uh. He was asked the question why our 179 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: Americans upset about Live and then Greg Norman replied, I 180 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: don't know, and I really don't care. Well, that ain't 181 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: helping because if you're trying to get TV contracts here 182 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: in the United States, a statement like that, Dan is 183 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: going to make a lot of people have steam come 184 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: out of the year. Um, I would think so, and 185 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: I think also in those kind of Greg Norman, talking 186 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: about the business sports, said that Tiger Woods was offered 187 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: and turned down seven hundred million dollars guaranteed to compete 188 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: for the event. Um. So you know, if you have 189 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: guys like Tiger turning it down, you have the head 190 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: of the organization, Greg Norman, you know, famous PGA golfer 191 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: in his own right, saying I don't care what people think. Uh, 192 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, 193 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: you got to focus on the PR efforts. And you 194 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: think someone that's appointed the head of Liz Golf, right, 195 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: maybe uh, priority number one is the PR aspect of this. 196 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: So I understand Greg Norman is a very big name. 197 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: I know there's some reports that they tried to get 198 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas for that spot. Who I'm not sure if 199 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: he would care more about the PR, but for from 200 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: Norman's perspective, he doesn't seem to care. He just seems 201 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: to be letting it fly, which I uh, you know, 202 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: I have some PR sports PR in my background. Let's 203 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: just say that's that's about the way I would be 204 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: handling it. Dan lust An, attorney for the New York 205 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: City office of Giri Ghost and Garri Ghost, Thank you sir, 206 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: for talking with us right here on the Bloomberg Business 207 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: of Sports. My pleasure anytime. We still have more to 208 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: get into, and this involved NFL star Deshaun Watson with 209 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns. The league wants it to be more 210 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,239 Speaker 1: than the six games he got as punishment for conduct 211 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: unbecoming of the league. The league, though, they want it 212 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: to be more. They're shooting for a year and with 213 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: us to talk about that is Martin Needle. He is 214 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: the co chair of Gholston and Stores Sports law practice. 215 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: Marty O. Fran thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg 216 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. Michael, It's always a pleasure to be 217 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: with you in Scarlett. This is a big time for 218 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: sports lawyers in the sports. We were just talking about 219 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: the live golf tournament and that lawsuit. Now we've got 220 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: this situation with Deshaun Watson. The NFL, the person handing 221 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: out the punishment gave Deshaun Watson six games for violating 222 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: the league conduct code. The league itself, I've never heard 223 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: of this before. They want more, They're they're saying they 224 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: want this to be about a year, and you don't 225 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: you really see that. But in the end, Marty M. 226 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: I right that it's gonna come down to what, and 227 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: if Commissioner Roger Goodell says it is you, you've hit 228 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: the nail on the head. The NFL collective bargaining agreement, 229 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: unlike that of any other professional sports league, gives the 230 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: power of the commissioner to be the prosecutor as well 231 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: as the judge, and I assumed Commissioner Goodell will assume 232 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: all those roles here. Um one one comment. This is 233 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: not the first time the NFL has challenged the ruling 234 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: of its neutral or its arbitrator. If you go back 235 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: to the ray Rice case, ray Rice was initially suspended 236 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: I think it was for two games, and the NFL 237 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: challenged it, claiming it found new evidence, which were the 238 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: tapes of the what happened in the elevator between ray 239 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: Rice and his then fiance, and commission the commissioner imposed 240 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: a harsher sentence, which was later vacated. So there is 241 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: some precedent for the commissioner jumping back into the mix 242 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: and trying to decide this frankly light of the public outrage. Okay, 243 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: so let's say Goodell moves ahead and hands down a 244 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: penalty that is far tougher than the six game suspension, 245 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: uh and and quell some of the outrage out there. 246 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Do we just assume automatically that the NFL Players Association 247 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: is going to sue and this is going to go 248 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: to court and this gets drawn out even longer. I 249 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: think that's a fair assumption. The NFL Players Association represents 250 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: the players, uh is it agreed to the six games 251 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: suspension and was not going to challenge it. But if 252 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: the Commissioner decides to impose a harsher sentence, then I 253 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: think the Players Association it's incumbent upon the Players Association 254 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: as a representative of the players to make sure that 255 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: the process doesn't tend to be fair rather than just 256 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: a response to public opinion. So I think it will 257 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: challenge in federal court any any harsher sentence that is 258 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: imposed by the Commissioner. Silas read he sent out its 259 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: week and it goes to where critics are saying about 260 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: how these punishments are all over the board right now 261 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: for Deshaun Watson, we're looking at six games. Silas Reid, 262 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: who was trying to get onto the Washington football team. 263 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: It's it's been changed now in the name, but he 264 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: got a whole year from the NFL for a suspension 265 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: for smoking weed. But then he says, well, you just 266 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: get six games for sexual misconduct. Make it makes sense. 267 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: So I'm asking you, Marty, help this. Make it makes sense. 268 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: So the answer, Michael is it does not make a 269 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: lot of sense. Um. Once upon a time, players could 270 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: get thrown out of sports for betting on sports. You 271 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: have the example of the Black Sox, I had the 272 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: example of p rose Uh. Players were not punished for 273 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: other activities, which made, of course no sense, because there 274 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 1: are far more heinous crimes than betting. And then in 275 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: the collective bargaining relationship and the players and the owners 276 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: set forth what's in the best interests of the game 277 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: and try to put some guardrails around the types of 278 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: activities that would result in a suspension. Take basketball, you 279 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: run out, If a player runs out onto the court 280 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: from the bench, it's an automatic suspension. That the worst 281 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: thing in the world. Maybe not, but it gives a 282 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: lot of discretion here, and in particular in the case 283 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: of the NFL, where all the powers have been ceded 284 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: to the commissioner by the players association, so that, as 285 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: I said before, the commissioner is the prosecutor. The commissioner 286 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: is the judge, and the commissioner is the appellate judge 287 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: as well. And it's important therefore that the commissioner adhere 288 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: to at least fundamental due process rights. Uh. In this case, 289 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: they're DeShawn Watson, because otherwise it will be all over 290 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: the place and in the courts and in the media 291 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: probably will right. I think it's safe to say Roger 292 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: Goodella's commissioner of the NFL UM he represents the interests 293 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: of the owners of the football teams, not the fans. 294 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: What do the owners want him to do and what's 295 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: in their best interests Well, narrowly, the owners want their 296 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: players to be able to play, but they also have 297 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: a public interest duty. Um, you can't have somebody who's 298 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: a sexual predator being able to play with getting just 299 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: a slight slap on the risks, and I think the 300 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: owners would want to quell the public outrage by showing 301 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: that there would be a harsh sentence. Of course, the 302 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: owner could suspend Watson because he has a contract with 303 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: the team as well, separately away from Goodell's action and 304 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: whatever the arbiter came up with, correct but that's unlikely 305 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: to occur once the NFL has stepped in and said 306 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: we will handle it. But that goes back to your 307 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: initial points, Scarlet. There the commissioner is representing the owners, 308 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: but he's also representing what's in the best interests of 309 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: the sport. Does the league have a problem because of 310 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: the fact that the Shaun Watson if I'm if I'm correct, 311 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: he was never arrested for any of this. Uh, And 312 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: it reminds me when Ezekiel Elliott, he was never arrested, 313 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: but he was suspended. And I'm wondering, now, what problem 314 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: does this cause in the Shaun Watson case. So a 315 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: great question, Michael Um. The commissioner does not have to 316 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: wait until there's a guilty plea or a guilty verdict 317 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: handed down before disciplining a player. If that were the case, 318 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: players would play probably till the end of their normal 319 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: careers before the legal process would went its way through 320 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: the courts. What the commissioner has to do is act. 321 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: And I keep coming back to this phrase, what's in 322 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: the best interests of professional football? If there's a lot 323 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: of fire out there, the commissioner has responsibility to investigate. Again, 324 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: within the boundaries of providing Mr Watson with process. So 325 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: what does that mean? He needs to bring Watson and 326 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: Watson's lawyer into the process, give them access to the 327 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: materials that the League obtains, give them an opportunity to talk, 328 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: to examine, to be cross examined, uh, and to cross 329 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: examine adverse witnesses. It's need be um so that it's 330 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: it's perceived as a fair process and others the process 331 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: that is due. If the commissioner can do that, and 332 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: he's that God knows lots of opportunities now over the 333 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: last few years in this area to investigate and take action, Uh, 334 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: then an old likelihood of court will affirm that. The 335 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: question where it becomes the one that Scarlet raised before, 336 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: which is if sick weeks is the precedent that goes 337 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: on there, how do you go for a larger term 338 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: of suspension. So, Marty, I'm gonna ask you to step 339 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: away from the NFL on this for a second. And UH, 340 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: let's think about the lawsuits that were levied against Deshaun 341 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: Watson himself. Not all of them haven't settled. There are 342 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: still some that are outstanding. What does this ruling and 343 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: what does this likely appeal or this appeal and the 344 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: likely UH countersuit by the NFL Players Association and the 345 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: likely UH move of this case to a federal court 346 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: mean for the outstanding lawsuits against DeShawn Watson, it should 347 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: put more of an impetus for either a resolution for 348 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: a resolution of those lawsuits, either by settlement or through 349 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 1: the criminal justice system or civil justice system. Because the 350 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: victims or the alleged victims certainly don't want this dragged 351 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: out in multiple forms. Neither does Mr Watson, so they'll 352 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: be increased pressure to try to move these old to 353 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: a resolution. Marty Etle, co chair of Gulston and Stores 354 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: Sports Law Practice, old friend of the show. You know 355 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: you can come here anytime you want, and of course 356 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: probably be bugging you a lot more because there's gonna 357 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: be a lot more coming down the line. I loved 358 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: the comment earlier about how because there's so much money 359 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: at stage in live sports, now this is what you're 360 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: going to get as a result, Marty, we'll probably burn 361 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: your phone line. Thank you, Sarah for John. Thank you Marty, 362 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: so always just thank you. It's always a pleasure to 363 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: be with you. This has been the bloomberg business of 364 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: Sports podcast, and we're here every Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday 365 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: right here to give you the biggest on the issues 366 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: that's taking place in the world of sports on Michael 367 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: bar You can follow me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports. 368 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: We're kind of like court Radio at this point, Scarlett 369 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: FO and I'm on Twitter at Scarlett FU. I'm kind 370 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: of like, you know, what was it your judge, Judy, 371 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: And I'm kind of like, you know, you know, now, 372 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: who's a guy in night Court? Oh, that's although the 373 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: Harry Anderson guy. Yeah, that you know. I'm doing magic 374 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: tricks here. By the way, uh, download this show wherever 375 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: you get your podcast.