1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we are going 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,399 Speaker 1: to take a deep dive into the case of Savannah 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Guthrie's mother who's been abducted. As you likely heard on 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: the news, Nancy Guthrie was taken from her home on 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Saturday night. It's a very weird case. She's an eighty 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: four year old woman in poor physical condition, but we've 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: heard she's in great mental shape, so it's not as 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: though this was just a case of mom wandering away. 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: She's the mother of a TV celebrity. But police can't 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: say right now if it was targeted. But the other 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: weird thing about this case is that her house is 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: covered in cameras and they were all either smashed or 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: they're missing. So it to me seems like someone knew 14 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: her house, someone had some forek knowledge of the home. 15 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: But we thought we should bring an expert in, so 16 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: I want to break it down with someone that we 17 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: have that's very special here. He is a retired FBI 18 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Supervisory Special Agent and criminal profiler, James Fitzgerald. He's best 19 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: known for cracking the case of the unibomber. Thank you 20 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. 21 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: You're welcome, t it Or good to be here. 22 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 3: So as we. 23 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: Break down what you know of this case. I mean, 24 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: your history is incredible. You have You've cracked cases that 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: are very similar to this one. What is your take 26 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: on We're getting very little out of these press conferences, 27 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: but I'm assuming that's because they have information that they 28 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to release to the public just yet. 29 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I've been doing media hits on this since Monday, 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 4: and it's obviously it's evolved somewhat the case itself, but 31 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 4: not a whole lot. At the same time, to law 32 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 4: enforcement's credit, they're keeping things pretty tight to the vest. 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 4: There's been a leak here there, I'm not sure they've 34 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 4: been substantiated. I don't tend to deal with leaks. I 35 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 4: deal with what law enforcement's actually stating, trying to read 36 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 4: between those lines, and of course using my own experience 37 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 4: to then put together the puzzle pieces. Where we are 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 4: so this is clearly at this point an abduction. The 39 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 4: question is an abduction's fall under two categories, for profit 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 4: or for revenge, And so far we don't know which 41 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 4: one of those categories this abduction occurred for what reason 42 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 4: it was done. It was clearly mission oriented on the 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 4: part of the abductor or abductor's plural. They knew what 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 4: they were doing. There was pre planning to this, whether days, weeks, 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 4: or months that we don't know. As I've said earlier, 46 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 4: when this case has finally resolved, it's going to be 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 4: someone known to the Guthrie family, or at least Missus Guthrie. 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 4: It could be a direct relationship, it could be a 49 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 4: tangential relationship, even a friend of a friend of a 50 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 4: friend that somehow found out, Hey, this woman lives by 51 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 4: herself in this house, secluded by bushes and trees on 52 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: a dark, lonely street, and oh, yeah, orders you know 53 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 4: a millionaire because you know she's a TV host. So 54 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 4: but having said that part the for profit notion here, 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 4: these are these types of kidnappings are very very rare 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 4: in the US. I mean, I can count on one 57 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 4: hand the ones I worked as an FBI agent directly 58 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 4: or indirectly. There was the exon executive in nineteen ninety 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 4: two in North Jersey who was kidnapped and he died 60 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 4: in the middle of everything, put in the a box 61 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 4: in the pine woods of New Jersey. But the kidnappers, 62 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 4: a husband and white team still tried to get money 63 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 4: from the family from x On et cetera. A year later, 64 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 4: in New York City, there was a tuxedo company owner, 65 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 4: Harvey Weinstein, not the same one we talk about sometimes, 66 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 4: but he was kidnapped and kept in a box alongside 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 4: railroad tracks in the Bronx for about two weeks, and 68 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 4: then he was freed and those people were arrested. You know, 69 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 4: Patty Hurst was a political thing. Daniel Pearl was political. 70 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 4: He's New York Times I'm sorry, Wall Street Journal reporter. 71 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 4: So these are very rare because the money is tough 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 4: to transfer. So if that's what we have here, it's 73 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 4: the rarest of the rare types of crimes in the US. 74 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: But let me add here they're relatively common in Mexico, 75 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 4: Central America, and South America. Football players, the soccer players, celebrities, 76 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 4: their parents, are loved ones are kidnapped more often than 77 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 4: even the media tells us about, and the authorities have 78 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 4: to handle it accordingly. So tutor to some up here. 79 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 4: We don't know exactly what we have yet, but they're 80 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 4: working on the assumption someone has there, perhaps for profit, 81 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 4: and that's why the emotional plea went out yesterday from 82 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 4: the family. 83 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: So what is your take on the fact that there's 84 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: this potential ransom note, because that's obviously why we're questioning 85 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: whether someone is looking for money. Because there were a 86 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: few notes that were sent to different networks, not actually 87 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's network, which is interesting. It went to TMZ. 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: I think it went to a local CBS affiliate. But 89 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: this note came out like a day or two after 90 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: she was abducted. Is that normal? Obviously none of this 91 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: is normal. 92 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 4: But right I know what you're saying, and the confines 93 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 4: of a kidnapping. 94 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: Is that normal? I'll never forget. 95 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 4: In January of two thousand and two, working the Daniel 96 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 4: Pearl case, he's a Wall Street Journal reporter. Of course, 97 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 4: he was eventually beheaded in Pakistan by the terrorist, but 98 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 4: the forty emails were sent out with his picture in 99 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 4: them of the gun held to his head and chains. 100 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 4: None went to the Wall Street Journal. I always found 101 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 4: it interesting back then, and that was a legitimate kidnapping, again, political, 102 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 4: not for profit terrorism. So the fact that these letters 103 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: one or more, we don't know, and you know why 104 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 4: they went to other media outlets than NBC. Who knows 105 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 4: if they're legit or not. And besides being a profiler, 106 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 4: I'm also a forensic linguist. I use language to help 107 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 4: resolve the unobomb case and hundreds of others since then. 108 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 4: And I'm hoping the FBI or somewhat in federal government 109 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 4: has a forensic linguist looking at these letters the content 110 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 4: of them. First of all, let's compare them to see 111 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 4: if it's the same author. A qualified and experienced linguists. 112 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: Can do that. 113 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 4: And who knows if they're handwritten, if they're computer generated, 114 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 4: cut and paste, whatever they may be. But a linguist 115 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 4: could be able to tell if in fact they're the 116 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 4: same person. And if it's multiple letters, only one of 117 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: them is probably going to be legit, not all of them, 118 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 4: especially if it looks like there are different authors involved. 119 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 4: So there are sick people out there that would, of 120 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 4: course take advantage of something like this, not necessarily even 121 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 4: to really hope to get the money. There may be 122 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 4: some trying to do that one or more, but some 123 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 4: just to muck up the system. It's how their brains operate, 124 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 4: and testing on the streets sometimes we see them doing 125 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 4: this stuff. So I think what law enforcement and the 126 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 4: family decided is, you know, we have to are on 127 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: the side of caution and meaning that someone has our mother, 128 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 4: someone has missus Guthrie, and the question is if she 129 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 4: is still alive. We're willing to talk to you. We're 130 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 4: willing to make a deal somehow. Now, to their credit, 131 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: they did put out they want a proof of life. 132 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: In so many words, they said that, and where ai 133 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: can you know? Again so many words. Images can be manipulated, 134 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 4: so we want the real thing. I'm glad that was 135 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 4: put in there. And of course they had some guidance 136 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 4: how to put this statement together. By no doubt, my colleagues, 137 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 4: my former colleagues in the behavioral nowis unit, perhaps lawyers, 138 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 4: and certainly the local sheriff's department, So they're are on the. 139 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: Side of caution. 140 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 4: If anyone out there does have her in their custody 141 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 4: for whatever reason, and they think, oh, that's not why 142 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 4: we took her, but maybe we can make a quick 143 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 4: buck out of this. Sure, let's talk, And that's what 144 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: the family is hoping to get back. Either it's pre 145 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: planned and they wanted money all along, or these people 146 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 4: are just moving along, you know, one step at a time, 147 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 4: maybe not even sure what they're doing at this point. 148 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 4: But taking a shot with these letters now, which may 149 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 4: or may not be authentic. 150 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: So we obviously have seen what you're referring to when 151 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: you talk about the family asking for proof of life 152 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: for on the off chance that you haven't seen it, 153 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: is that Savannah and her sister and brother did a 154 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: video they posted on an Instagram. 155 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: They asked. 156 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: It was kind of a multi layered video. They kind 157 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: of explained who mom is. They said, you know, we're 158 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: willing to talk if you are wanting to talk to us, 159 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: if there is a deal on the table for her life, 160 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: we are willing to talk. And then they both both 161 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: she and her sister talk about her or talk to 162 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: her directly so that they can make it. In my opinion, 163 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: but I'm not the expert. You're the expert. It is 164 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: so that you see her as a mom because Savannah 165 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: calls her mommy, which to me is very powerful. Everybody 166 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: has a mommy. She is vulnerable. That's who I need 167 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: in my life. Her sister refers to her as mama. 168 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: They talk directly to her. Very moving, I mean a 169 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: very moving video. But you know the background of that. 170 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: This was I assume based on the wording that they 171 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: have in that letter of how they responded is do 172 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: you think that's correct? 173 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 174 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 4: And the word I use and what I would always 175 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 4: relate to people in this situation in kidnapping, missing children, 176 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 4: whatever it may have been over the years, you're not 177 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 4: sure if they're kidnapped or not. But humanize the person 178 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 4: and it could be a father, it could be a grandmother, 179 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 4: could be a little kid. Humanize them. Call them by 180 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 4: their name. In this case though they only use the 181 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 4: name Nancy once if I counted correctly, but it was mom, mommy, mama. 182 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 4: A different references there. That's fine. Everyone at some point 183 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 4: has a mother, certainly in their early life, and they're 184 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 4: hoping to somehow bond in some sort of language or 185 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 4: communicative style that Look, this is our mother, it could 186 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 4: be your mother, please take care of her, and yes, 187 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 4: we want to talk. I found that interesting that it 188 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 4: was almost sort of a pragmatic versus an abstract delineation 189 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 4: to the message, with Savannah being more the pragmatic one, 190 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 4: of course, loving and saying all the right words about 191 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 4: her mother. But the more abstract version was Annie, who 192 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 4: I believe is a poet of some sort, and she 193 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 4: sort of waxed poetic in what she had to say 194 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 4: about her mother's the light and the beacon, and it 195 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 4: brings great joy to their life. All legitimate, you know, verbiage. 196 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 4: I'm not questioning at all them saying it, but it 197 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 4: seems like they went, you know, sort of the direct 198 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 4: and indirect, pragmat abstract viewpoint there the older I think 199 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 4: it's the older brother. He said very few words at 200 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 4: the end, but he still did put it out there. 201 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 4: I worked a d C sniper case. I was very 202 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 4: much involved in that, and the language involved uh and 203 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 4: they we eventually determined it was two people in our profile, 204 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 4: and they instructed Chief Moose, who was running it the 205 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 4: task Force at the time out of Montgomery County, Maryland, 206 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 4: to put certain words out to the public, including we 207 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 4: it's like we have a. 208 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: Duck in a noose. 209 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 4: It sounds nonsensical, but if you go back to those 210 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 4: old press conference, the Chief Moose actually said that because 211 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 4: the killers wanted him to do so. So I always 212 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 4: ask myself, has there been some communication the ones tutor 213 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 4: we've already referred to here, or is there some other 214 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 4: one that no one knows about. Maybe it came right 215 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 4: to the family, Maybe it came right to the police, 216 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 4: and they're keeping that again close to the vest, and 217 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 4: the said you have to put these words specifically out there. 218 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 4: I noticed too, the brother wearing a baseball hat. I 219 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 4: couldn't begin the picture to use that word to see 220 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 4: what the logo was on front. Was that a message 221 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 4: of some sort? Does a baseball pat cat mean something 222 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 4: will happen Saturday? Does Savannah sitting in front mean something 223 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 4: happens on Friday? Could these have been very specific instruction. 224 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 4: I'm not locked into this at all, but I'm aware 225 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 4: of cases in the past, even going back to the 226 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 4: Lindberg kidnapping in the early nineteen thirties. No, I wasn't 227 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 4: born then, but I read enough about it that they 228 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 4: had him do certain sort of machinations to in fact, 229 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 4: you know, pay off the ransom, which he eventually did, 230 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 4: and of course the baby was dead all along. So yeah, 231 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 4: there's a lot of control and exploitation involved in a 232 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 4: legitimate quote unquote kidnapping for a profit. We're not talking 233 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 4: parental custody here or some you know, sexual sadist looking 234 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 4: to do something with usually younger people. But if this 235 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 4: is strictly a for profit kidnapping, again, very rare in 236 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 4: the US, but they will want to make sure they 237 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 4: have the control elements in place for the family. And 238 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 4: some of what has been said, even the way they 239 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 4: were sitting in front of the camera, potentially even what 240 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 4: one or more people were wearing could have played a 241 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 4: factor in sending some sort of a subliminal or subconscious 242 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 4: message to the persons involved in the abduction. 243 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: It's interesting. 244 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: As I was watching it, I was wondering, do they 245 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: have her kind of sitting in front of the other 246 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: two siblings, because she's the well known figure, and that 247 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: would be like I'm talking directly to you. I mean, 248 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: that crossed my mind. Why why are they sitting the 249 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: way they are sitting And it was just the children 250 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: and not the spouses, and it just it was definitely interesting. 251 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 252 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. Let me ask you in your 253 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: experience when you see something like this. I mean, we've 254 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: heard that the scene seemed violent. There was blood spattered 255 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: on the ground. Obviously they're going to look at the 256 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: blood splatters and see if this is her DNA, if 257 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: there's some other DNA there she also is she requires medication. 258 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: She has to take it every twenty four hours to survive. Also, 259 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: the last pacemaker sink was in the middle of the 260 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: night that night. Now, I don't know the significance of that, 261 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: but based on your experience, and she's eighty four, what 262 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: are the chances that she is still alive? 263 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: Yeah? 264 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 4: I've been asked us a few times, and I you know, 265 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 4: as a lead, if not investigator, certainly profile or behavioralist 266 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 4: forensic linguist in a few of these types of cases. 267 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 4: We've worked and even helping international in some of these cases. 268 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 4: And it's not always kidnapping or abduction, but someone who's 269 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 4: going to keep killing if you don't do this, that 270 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 4: or the other. You have to look at all these 271 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 4: factors and see where it takes you. But it's just 272 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 4: what does it mean that how well planned were these 273 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 4: abductors for this kidnapping? Did they realize that she was 274 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 4: on these meds and they would need these meds to 275 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 4: stay alive? Are they so sophisticated And I'm not a 276 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 4: acknowledging it's a legitimate for profit kidnapping, but if they 277 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 4: are sophisticated enough that they have a source for these 278 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 4: types of medications, some doctor on standby, even a veterinarian. 279 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 4: And I'm thinking it could be on this side of 280 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 4: the border, the US side could be on the Mexican 281 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 4: side of the border in which this would be taking place. 282 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 4: And hopefully missus Guthrie is you know, is coaching enough. 283 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 4: It sounds like she is, but from whatever injury she 284 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 4: suffered that she can say, hey, you know, I'm going 285 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 4: to die if I don't get these meds. Somehow they 286 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 4: would get them for them, get them for her, not 287 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 4: from the house. Of course, they missed that opportunity, so 288 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: this seems sophisticated. You mentioned the smash cameras. In the 289 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 4: old days, they'd unscrew light bulbs, you know, before cameras, 290 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 4: so it has less visibility. But this house, this really 291 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 4: was a perfect storm, if you will, the perfect place 292 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 4: to kidnap someone. It's so dark and isolated that those 293 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 4: street lights. Apparently, even if the houses have these cameras, 294 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 4: it seems like there's shrubbery and bushes all around and 295 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 4: it wouldn't really capture much. I'm not sure what the 296 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 4: red light cameras are in the area, or plate recognition software, 297 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 4: facial recognition software in that area of Tucson. So maybe 298 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 4: these people knew something in advance, and they knew the 299 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 4: inside of the house. She was probably bloodied just enough. 300 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 4: And I hate to even put it this way about 301 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 4: an eighty four year o woman, but she was hit 302 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 4: or assaulted just enough to render her compliant to be 303 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 4: taken out to a car or a van. Somehow seems 304 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 4: the blood drops the blood spatter stopped at some point 305 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 4: and then perhaps it was grab they picked her up, 306 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 4: and the blood dripped down on herself whatever she was wearing, 307 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 4: so other people can look at those more closely and 308 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 4: determine directionality what have you. So, Yeah, she obviously didn't 309 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 4: come up her own free will. She had to be hit, 310 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 4: punch in the mouth something, And as what's why I 311 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 4: said there was probably more than one abductor. One could 312 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 4: probably get away with this with a with a woman 313 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 4: of this age and physical fraility. But ideally you'd want 314 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 4: to certainly to drive the car away when she may 315 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 4: be kicking and screaming while you're putting her in the back, 316 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 4: you know, hatch. 317 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: Or whatever it is. 318 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: If you're looking, if you were on this case, if 319 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: you were looking at this, what is the first thing 320 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: you do? I mean, obviously we've heard there have been rumors, 321 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: Well was it somebody in the family? 322 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 3: Do you look? 323 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm not by any means saying that 324 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: I think it was someone in the family, But is 325 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: that the first place you look? 326 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: Tutor? 327 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 4: That one of the first things I learned as a 328 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 4: profiler in our twelve weeks of training. Then we went 329 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 4: out and started working cases. You know, Obam was my 330 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 4: first case as a profiler. But there's a concept known 331 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 4: as victimology, and it's very important to study serial offenders 332 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 4: and the bad guys, the killers, the rapist and get 333 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 4: to know everything about them. But you also want to 334 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 4: know about your victim. What kind of victim do you have? 335 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 4: And it's not about discredit discrediting them or we're denigrading them, 336 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 4: but what was their lifestyle? You know, a sex worker 337 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 4: in a bad neighborhood, she's a hybris victim and bad 338 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 4: things are more likely to happen to her. Then we'll 339 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 4: say missus Guthrie, a suburban soccer mom who makes a 340 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 4: wrong turn in a car and goes into some neighborhood 341 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 4: in which she's not a customed maybe high crime. She's 342 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 4: a low risk victim that you know geographically becomes high 343 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 4: risk because she's wrong place, wrong time. So we look 344 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 4: at victimology. What kind of woman was missus Guthrie in 345 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 4: this regard? Is she that type? Someone knocked them, door, 346 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 4: rang the doorbell, just opened it up, whether she knew 347 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 4: them or not, or like even through the glass my 348 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 4: car broke down, a little woman standing there, would you 349 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 4: please let me use your phone? And that door opens 350 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 4: and they go get her. Now, we don't know that's 351 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 4: what happened here. I believe I understanding there's some kind 352 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 4: of forced entry on the house, but we want to 353 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 4: know all these things about her. So to extrapolate on 354 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 4: that tutor to what you said, every single person in 355 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 4: which she's been in contact for the last several years, 356 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 4: if not her lifetime have to be interviewed, and they 357 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 4: should be interviewed separately. I'm sure the police first sat 358 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: down Nonish on that Sunday and the husband, you know, 359 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 4: Annie and her husband were there, and they talked to them. 360 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 4: I'm hoping at some point I'm not casting the spursions here, 361 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 4: but they separated them and talked, interviewed them separately and 362 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 4: make sure everything lines up. Will say it did so far, 363 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 4: But everyone who's ever visited Missus Guthrie's house. You know, 364 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 4: h fact, people, postal service people, commercial delivery people, anyone 365 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 4: who goes there for medical reasons, anyone, any kind of nurses, 366 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 4: cleaning people, whoever. And they may not be the kidnappers, 367 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 4: the abductors, but do they know someone and doing and 368 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 4: getting names of people with whom they've been talking over 369 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 4: the last. 370 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: Few weeks, few months. 371 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 4: That's who could have come in the friend of a 372 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 4: friend who heard about this rich woman's elderly mother living 373 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 4: in the middle of nowhere, as we've described before, and said, 374 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 4: let's take advantage of this. I would be very surprised, 375 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 4: greatly surprised if when this case is resolved, it doesn't 376 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 4: have some connection to the house. I won't even say 377 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 4: finally at this point, but certainly to the house in 378 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 4: terms of someone who's been inside there and either they're 379 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 4: involved in the kidnapping or they know the person who 380 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 4: did whether and information was passed along intentionally or unintentionally, 381 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 4: and then bad things happened at two o'clock list Sunday morning. 382 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: You brought up that this is something that is much 383 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: more common in other countries in Mexico. 384 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 3: Was one of those. 385 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: This is a border state, She's not that far from 386 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: the border. There was discussion that she had had people 387 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: working in her house recently. Obviously you just said that 388 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: those people would be interviewed, but also she has people 389 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: that work regularly in the house as well. So could 390 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: it be that this is something that is coming from 391 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: a different country. 392 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely it could be. And again I'm not locking 393 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 4: into that yet. There's plenty of bad guys born in 394 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 4: this country, born and raised here in the US, but 395 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 4: with the proximity to another country about sixty five miles away, Mexico, 396 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 4: in which these kidnappings happened often, that certainly can't be 397 00:21:58,920 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 4: ruled out. 398 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 2: All the border crossings, you. 399 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 4: Know, that night, you know, from three o'clock, you know, 400 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 4: four o'clock on, you know, have to be carefully examined 401 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 4: and determine what could have happened from there. I'm also, 402 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 4: if I believe I heard this right, the reward is 403 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 4: that two thousand, five hundred dollars that is couch change 404 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 4: for I'm sure Savannah Duthrie. 405 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah, that's I hadn't heard that. 406 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 4: And you would think some kind of reward would put 407 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 4: out there be put out there in that regard, and 408 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 4: maybe there's a tactical reason they're not doing that. I 409 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 4: don't know, and it may have to do with well, 410 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 4: I say tactical, but more of a strategic reason they're 411 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 4: not doing that because of some communication they ostensibly have 412 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 4: with someone kidnapping. But I mean, twenty five hundred dollars 413 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 4: is like the normal fee that you know, the state 414 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 4: or county would put or I should say reward. So 415 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 4: I'm maybe at some point some other press conference would 416 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 4: be where one hundred thousand, five hundred thousand is offered, 417 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 4: which probably could be afforded, But then who knows what 418 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 4: the if it is a kidnapping, what the financial demands 419 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 4: would be amount would be in that regard, and whether 420 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 4: it would be a bitcoin or not, which I think 421 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 4: is the reference in these letters. I would say this too. Ever, 422 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 4: since the Unibomb case, I was the first proponent on 423 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 4: the Unibomb Task Force to publish the manifesto. I had 424 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 4: people argue against me. I wrote that on my fourth book, 425 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 4: or that was my third book, actually my role in 426 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 4: the unibomb case, and like the movie Twelve Angry Men, 427 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 4: we finally switched to everyone around. Yes, let's get it published. 428 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 4: New York Times agreed, and Washington Post published it in 429 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 4: September of ninety five. In the next few days. If 430 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 4: they still have questions about these letters, I'd say publish them. 431 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 4: They can keep the bottom with the top singular. Don't 432 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 4: put out there so for copycat purposes if there's some 433 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 4: code word or something. But I've worked a number of 434 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 4: cases over the years. You published these types of letters 435 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 4: by law enforcement, you may get someone recognize the writing style. 436 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 4: And I don't mean loops and worlds of the penmanship. 437 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 4: I mean the content. As a linguist would look at 438 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 4: indicators of sex, gender, age, nationality, native English speaker or not. 439 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: All kinds of factors can be determined, which could help 440 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 4: then just narrow the suspect pool even a little bit. 441 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 442 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So when you say that's how 443 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: because you said you used language to get to the unibomber, 444 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: which you know first, the average person is like, well, 445 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: how do you do that? That's what you're looking for 446 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: is something that all of the way we write and 447 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: the things we say is tell a lot more about 448 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: us than we know oh, absolutely. 449 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 4: And I covered this a lot in my third and 450 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 4: fourth book once I picked up on that. And I 451 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 4: had a master's in psychology when I was a profileer, 452 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 4: but then I went back and got a second master's 453 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 4: in linguistics at Georgetown University. So I am a linguistic, 454 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 4: a forensic linguist. Yeah, we all have what's known as 455 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: an idiolect, and that is a personal dialect, and its 456 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 4: reflected in how we speak, but also how we write. 457 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 4: And this could be a whole different podcast we do, 458 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 4: tutor perhaps sometime, but yeah, there's a lot of clues 459 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 4: within language that we use every day as we speak. 460 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 4: A linguist may hear me and say, oh, that guy's 461 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 4: from the Philadelphia area, which is true born and raised, 462 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 4: and I still have some dialect features of that more 463 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 4: professional speakers, I haven't quite picked up where you grew up, tutor, 464 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 4: but I've been doing most of the talking here. But 465 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 4: a good linguist can sit down and do that and 466 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 4: pick up unnecessarily where they're from. And that also is 467 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 4: reflective in written language, so lexical choices and what have you. 468 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 4: So I'm out here saying one or more of these letters, 469 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 4: be they real or bogus are going to solve this case. 470 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: But if there's no other. 471 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 4: Leads going on, I think at some point it wouldn't 472 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 4: hurt law enforcement to consider releasing them. They can keep 473 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 4: one part of it to themselves, so we always know, 474 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 4: you know, that only belongs to the real person who 475 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 4: sent this. But maybe someone out there would recognize the 476 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 4: writing style as the brother of the un Obama eventually did. 477 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 4: Then we had to build the case after that because 478 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 4: hundreds of people were telling us they recognized the writing 479 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 4: back then, but it took us putting our team together 480 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 4: to actually pick Ted Kaczynski as the one and only 481 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 4: writer of the fourteen UNIBAMB documents. Maybe someone could do 482 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 4: that here. 483 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: Lastly, I guess i'll ask how long do you think 484 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: something like this takes? Obviously everybody wants to know, well, 485 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: when can we find her? When we can we find 486 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: the answers? But is this something that can last years 487 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: or is this something that you think will be wrapped 488 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: up pretty quickly? 489 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and I've thought about this. I think you're 490 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 4: the first one to ask me in the media how long. 491 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 4: But if there's not a confirmation of a kidnapping, meaning 492 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 4: a return on service, that the abductor's wanting something, and 493 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 4: it may not be money, could be someone released from prison. 494 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 4: So maybe this then goes into political sphere or some 495 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 4: other political rationale involved. That's a long shot. These are 496 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 4: usually done for money when they happen in the US 497 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 4: to this degree, they're usually for money. If we don't 498 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 4: hear something in the next few days, maybe we can 499 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 4: start ruling out that this is a for profit kidnapping 500 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 4: unless they really have a great degree of delayed gratification. 501 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 4: Because the longer they hold this woman, the more it 502 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 4: can go wrong on multiply. They can get caught, then 503 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 4: get arrested, something bad could happen to her the longer 504 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 4: it goes on. I don't know the logic in keeping 505 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 4: her around if money's not involved. 506 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: So so I. 507 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 4: Can't give an answer I would say, and you know, 508 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 4: I'll just throw out in the next seventy two hours, 509 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 4: if there's not a confirmed notification for some sort of 510 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 4: a ransom payment, I would take an investigative speculative guests 511 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 4: then this is not kidnapping for profit. It would done 512 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 4: for some other reason, and that's when the revenge or 513 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 4: avenge motive has to be brought in. What did the 514 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 4: woman herself unlikely eighty four years of age, low risk victim, 515 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 4: but some family member, even Savannah something she said on 516 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 4: the air. I'm sure people are going through everything she's said, tweeted, x, 517 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 4: you know whatever in the last year and see what 518 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 4: they could possibly callf as controversial, nothing of which I 519 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 4: am aware. But that's all being combed over right now. 520 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: Well, well, I know we are all praying for Savannah 521 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: and her family. I honestly, I I can't imagine how 522 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: hard this is on her right now, because I'm sure 523 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: everything you just said is what's going through her mind 524 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: right now. Is did I say something? Was there someone 525 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: I interviewed? Was I on the wrong side of some issue? 526 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: Because that's what we do when we I mean, she's 527 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: on more of an opinion show, so it's what we 528 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: do when we're on TV. We talk, we tell people stories, 529 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: we take sides. Maybe someone didn't like a side she took, 530 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: and that's a lot of pressure. So we are definitely 531 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: praying for her. Before I do let you go, I 532 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: want to ask you about your book series. You talked 533 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: about a couple of your books. It's called a Journey 534 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: to the Center of the Mind. Tell us a little 535 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: bit about that. 536 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for asking too, door. 537 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just had a stories I would tell my 538 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 4: kids and other people, and they say, oh, I should 539 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 4: put that in writing. So in retirement I sat down 540 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 4: and I was going to write one book, and I 541 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 4: wound up compartmentalizing them into four. So book they're all 542 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 4: titled A Journey to the Center of the Mind. And 543 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 4: I give credit to Jules Verne and Ted Nugent for 544 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 4: borrowing from Journey to the Center of the Earth and 545 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 4: Journey to the Center of the minor song by the Amboy. 546 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: Dukes back in the day. 547 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: And the first book's about growing up in Philly in 548 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 4: the sixties, being taught by nuns and going off to 549 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 4: penn State University. It ends with me at the Pennsylvania 550 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 4: State Police Academy. Book two is all about my years 551 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 4: as a Bensalm Pennsylvania Police officer, then being recruited to 552 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 4: the FBI. Book three is my first seven years in 553 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 4: New York and the FBI, with a long two hundred 554 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: page chapter about un Obama at the end of book three. 555 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 4: And book four starts with the Olympic bombings in seventy 556 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 4: eight and John bin A. Ramsey Kayse and the homicide 557 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 4: of a good friend of mine still unsolved twenty eight 558 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 4: years ago. I just put some reward money up for that, 559 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 4: working with phillypd a bunch of other cases into retirement. 560 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: So yeah, there, it's. 561 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 4: Ebooks, audiobooks, regular paperback books. Go on my website James R. 562 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 4: Fitzgerald dot com. Contact me through there. We're glad to 563 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 4: set off signed copies to people. 564 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: Oh wonderful. And then you have a podcast as well. 565 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: It's called Cold Read, Cold Red. 566 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 4: Yes, thanks for asking, and about that too, So yeah, 567 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 4: I co hosted with my FBI buddy, doctor Raymond Carr. 568 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: We've been doing it about three years now. We've over 569 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 4: one hundred episodes and it's all true crime oriented and 570 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 4: our thing is we bring on interesting guests, let them 571 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 4: do most of the talking. We try and ask some 572 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 4: interesting questions and all kinds of guests, all kinds of crimes, 573 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 4: and and we support the police and certainly victims are 574 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 4: very important. In most episodes, we try to give something back, 575 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 4: say hey, you know, women, a lot of our demographic 576 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 4: is women, and we say, you know, here's how to 577 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 4: be careful, certainly around Christmas time and shopping time and 578 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 4: what you do in parking lots and what you tell 579 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 4: your daughters. We had someone on who got two weeks ago, 580 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 4: who works with you know, internet cyber stalking of young kids. 581 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 4: I think was a very valuable episode to listen to. 582 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 4: So yeah, that's what Cold Read It's all about. We're 583 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 4: trying to help people and talk about true crime at 584 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 4: the same time, but not glorify it. Bad guys are 585 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 4: bad guys, and we don't give them any credit down 586 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 4: the line. 587 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 3: I appreciate that, especially the part about women. 588 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: I've got four daughters, my sister has a daughter, and 589 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: obviously we're calling my mom and saying, do you have cameras? 590 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 3: Do you have your alarm system on me? 591 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: As you hear stories like this, you as a mom, 592 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: you're raising your kids and you're always worried about your kids. 593 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: When I heard this story, I thought, oh gosh, I 594 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: have to be more concerned with my mom too. And 595 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: it's just you know, having a resource like Cold Red 596 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: to go to and say, Okay, I can scroll through 597 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: these episodes and learn how to take care of myself. 598 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. So thank you so much, James Fitzgerald. 599 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on the podcast today. 600 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: You're welcome to it or see you some other time. 601 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 3: Sounds good, and thank you all for joining us. 602 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: As we said before, we are praying for the Guthrie family. 603 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: We're thinking of Savannah and her siblings, and we will 604 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: be continuing to pray until we know what happened to 605 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie. For this episode, please check it out where 606 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or you can also watch it 607 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: on Rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon. But please join 608 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: us and please join us in praying for the Guthrie family. 609 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: Thank you,