1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: One of my favorite accolades I've received was a Disobedience 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: Award from m T for like not publishing this research 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: and a pere of you journal first that can take months, 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: that can take years, and our kids did not have 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: another day. We could not afford that time. So I 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: literally walked out of my clinic with my white coat on, 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: and I stood up at a press conference sharing this 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: research and demanding action. I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: You and Me Both, where I get into some of 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: today's biggest questions with people I find fascinating. Last week 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: I got to speak with Kamala Harris, U s Senator 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: from California, Democratic nominee for Vice President, Tough as Nails. 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: We dropped that as a special episode, and if you 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: haven't listened to it yet, I hope that you will 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: because I want you to get to know this woman 17 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: who is going to make history and be our first 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: woman vice resident. Today we are featuring two other women leaders. Now, 19 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: you might guess I have a lot to say about 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: the subject of women and leadership. I know what happens 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: to women when we put ourselves out there. You know, 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: we're told smile more. You smile too much. You know, 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: your voice is too loud, your voice is too soft. 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: Why are you wearing that color? Why don't you wear 25 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: this color? I mean everything that's ever been said to 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: me or said behind my back about me. I understand 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: that it is not easy, but when women lead, we 28 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: get the job done. And it is no coincidence that 29 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: some of the countries with the best responses to COVID 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: happened to be led by women. Now, there are lots 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: of ways to lead. One is running for office, but 32 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: it is not the only way. So today I'm talking 33 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: to two women who have made a huge impact on 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: the world, each and her own unique way. Later, I'll 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: be talking to Dr Mona Hannah a Tsha. She is 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: the pediatrician from Flint, Michigan, who discovered that the city's 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: drinking water was contaminated with lead. She spoke out, she advocated, 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: she stood her ground. It was not easy, as you 39 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: will hear. But first, I'm thrilled to talk to my friend, feminist, 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: icon writer, journalist, activist, advocate Gloria Steinhum You Now, I 41 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: first heard about Gloria years and years ago. She just 42 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: seems like She's been part of my young adulthood and 43 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. I love the way that 44 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: she has pushed open doors for so many women who 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: have come after her, including me. But more importantly, she 46 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: became a leader in the women's rights movement, a strong 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: leader for a woman's right to choose, and spoke out 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: about having an abortion herself. At age twenty two, she 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: helped found miss magazine, which I remember when that happened, 50 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: it was like a bombshell. It was so exciting. She 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: fought for the Equal Rights Amendment, and she's been on 52 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: the front lines ever since. She's an extraordinary person with 53 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: a gift for summing up what so many are feeling 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: but may not have the words to say. And one 55 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: of my favorite Gloria isms is the truth will set 56 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: you free, but first it will piss you off. So 57 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 1: let's jump right in. You know, I wanted to talk 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: to us a little bit about your journey because I 59 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: know you've said you didn't begin your life as an 60 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: active feminist. I don't know any anybody who did. Mean 61 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: we stood up for ourselves. Maybe that was being a 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: feminist in our time and age, but were there experiences 63 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: looking back now in your childhood that you think prepared 64 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: you to speak out and stand up on behalf of 65 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: not only yourself, but on feminist issues and politics, particularly 66 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: as they affect women and girls. Well, looking back, I 67 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: think it was quite fortunate that I didn't go to 68 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: school very much until I was about eleven, and that's 69 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: because my family was traveling in a house trailer in 70 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: the wintertime. It's a long story as to why that 71 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: was the case. But I think I missed a certain 72 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: amount of Dick and Jane. Remember that Dick and Jane 73 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: will do yes. I think I just missed that. So 74 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: I think in some ways we're born with a sense 75 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: of our value, or you know, are We're not better 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: than anybody else, but we're not worse either, And unless 77 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: that gets educated out of you, I think children hang 78 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: onto it. And secondly, I would give great credit to 79 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: Louisa may Alcott. I fell in love with Little Women. 80 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: I read every word that she wrote, which was you know, 81 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: she wrote many more things than that. She was, of course, 82 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: a very active, suffrage independent woman, and I'm grateful to her. 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: You know, I imagined that she was my friend and 84 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: that she would come back, and what would I show 85 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: her first? And so she was my companion growing up. 86 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: I've had so many women, and I myself feel the 87 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: same way. Talk about the influence of little Women and 88 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: also Nancy Drew. Oh yes, I also read Nancy Drew. 89 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: Finding role models in literature was like finding a friend, 90 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: somebody that you could relate to, that you could role 91 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: model yourself after. And you know, when I think about 92 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: growing up at that time, it's hard not to be 93 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: focused on all the books that I read because there 94 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: weren't very many women in the public arena or even 95 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: in my community that we're living, lives outside the home. 96 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: So there were my public school teachers, there were the 97 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: public librarians, but you know, other than somebody maybe waiting 98 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: on you at a store, there just weren't many other 99 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: people except in literature that you could go and have 100 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: your imagination sparked. Did you see anybody in political life? 101 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: I mean, my mother worshiped Eleanor Roosevelt, but of course, 102 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, you had to marry a president, you know, 103 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: but it wasn't altogether classical. Well, but you know, the 104 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: one person that I learned about from reading Life magazine 105 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: every Friday at my house when I got home from 106 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: school was Margaret Chase Smith, the Republican senator from Maine. 107 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: I read about her and I learned about her standing 108 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: up to McCarthy. Yes, oh, I so remember that. It was. 109 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: It was so impactful to me, you know, part of 110 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: the interesting dynamic that you and I share, as we 111 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: both went to women's colleges. Yes, and you went to Smith. 112 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: I went to Wellesley. How did you decide to do that? 113 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: What was it about Smith that attracted you when you 114 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: were ready to go to school. Well, my my older 115 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: sister nine years older, had gone there, and I was 116 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: in Toledo in a terrible high school, and it was 117 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: the only one I knew actually, so I was just 118 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: following her. And I'm enough older than you, so that 119 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: I was there in the nineteen fifties, and the nineteen 120 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: fifties were not a great time, to put it mildly, 121 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: so there was not a lot of encouragement there. I mean, 122 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: I had my courses that I fell in love with, 123 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: but the president at the time said they were educating 124 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: women in order to have educated children. You know. I 125 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: have had that conversation with Madeline Albright, who was at 126 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: Wellesley ten years before me, and she says exactly the 127 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: same thing. She got married right out of college, and 128 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: she graduated one day, she got married the next day. 129 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: She said, Look, that's what we were supposed to do. 130 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: That's what we were being trained to do. And the 131 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: difference in the time I, you know, went to college, 132 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: with the Vietnam War, protests, with assassinations, with all kinds 133 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: of turmoil in our country, and the women's movement which 134 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: you were literally at the forefront of and beginning to 135 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: set forth a set of values and principles that provided 136 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: an alternative view for girls and women. Well, in a way, 137 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: what we're saying is hopeful, because what we're seeing in 138 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: our individual experience is the difference a decade makes, and 139 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: it's huge when you think about it. Between the fifties 140 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: and the sixties. I was rescued from the my fate 141 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: of the nineteen fifties. I was engaged, I was going 142 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: to get married and so on. So the only way 143 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: I could sort of escape from that was to do 144 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: something drastic. So I went to India and ended up 145 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: Fortunately I had access to a small CHESTI Boles Fellowship, 146 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: which was like, I don't know, a thousand dollars or something. 147 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: So I just got on a plane and left and 148 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: ended up living there for two years, in the midst 149 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: of the post independence growth and excitement and so on. 150 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: Where were you living in India? Well, first I was 151 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: living in Miranda House, which is a women's college at 152 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: the University of Delhi. And then I was just traveling 153 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: through India. There must be some providence that looks after 154 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: naive young women who don't know what they're doing. May 155 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: it always be so? And then when you came back, 156 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: what was it you were planning to do when you 157 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: returned to the United States? How did you see your 158 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: future at that time? You know, I had a very 159 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: hazy vision of my future. I think, guided partly by 160 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: the fact that I had a father who was very 161 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: proud of never having a job. I realized that it 162 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: was possible to live without a job, and though it 163 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: was kind of difficult economically for quite a few years 164 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: to be a freelance writer. So you were coming back though, 165 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: right in the midst of the civil rights movement, the 166 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: beginning of the women's movement, the struggle over the Vietnam War. 167 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: You were coming into a lot of ferment when you returned. Yes, 168 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: that happened a little bit later, but Actually, my experience 169 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: in India stood me in good stead because I knew 170 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: Ho Chi Minh was a nice guy and a poet. 171 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: Because I had had read an India, right, I sort 172 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: of knew early that we were on the wrong side, 173 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, not just that it was an unjust war, 174 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: but they were actually on the wrong side. Well, didn't 175 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: he ask for us support in his uh? He did 176 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: dependent struggle against the French? He did initially. I mean 177 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: he as a young man went to the League of 178 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: Nations and he asked for you as support. And actually, 179 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: in the first issue of New York Magazine, which I 180 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: believe was night, I wrote a piece about Ho Chi 181 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: men in New York because I was trying to humanize him. 182 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: And I knew that as a young man, a cabin 183 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: boy on a ship, he had come to New York 184 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: and lived in New York for several years. So I 185 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: tried to track down his and you know, to the 186 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: credit of Clay Felker, who you know, was probably not 187 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: supposed to let me humanize the enemy at that point, 188 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: he let me write a whole piece about Ho Chi 189 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: Minh in New York. That's fascinating. We'll be back right 190 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: after this quick break. You know another thing you did 191 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: is you started a magazine. You started something that had 192 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: never really been in the modern world. There had been 193 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: women's magazines, obviously, and there had been politic old women's 194 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: magazines in the nineteenth century, in the early twentieth century, 195 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: but for a lot of the people listening to us, 196 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't know that younger people, particularly young women, understood 197 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: how momentous it was when you started Miss magazine. I mean, 198 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: it was such an explosion of interest and excitement about that. Yes, no, 199 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: it really was, And if we've known how difficult it was, 200 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: we probably wouldn't have done it. Well, that's true for 201 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: a lot of things that I could pick up. But 202 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: the women's magazines were and sometimes still are catalogs. They're 203 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: about what women are supposed to buy, what we're supposed 204 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: to look like, how we're supposed to raise our children, cook, 205 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: so on. And because they're supported by advertising and most 206 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: of the editorial, then is there really about the advertising categories? 207 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: So we said, wait a minute, why can't we have 208 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: a women's magazine that's about what women are interested in 209 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: reading and it includes fiction and poetry and political articles 210 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: and so on. Of course, advertisers on the least interested, 211 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: so we were always on our economic uppers. But fortunately 212 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: there was there was interest. What kept us going were 213 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: the mail bags of letters that came every day with 214 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: women saying, you know, MS came into my house and 215 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: I feel as if I have a friend and i've 216 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: been you know. It was just so moving and so encouraging. 217 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: And also they kept us up on all the issues 218 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: so we could do a cover story on how women 219 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: were waiting later to have babies, you know, because before 220 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: it was discernible, it was discernible in our letters. It 221 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: was like a big talking circle with our readers, and 222 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: somehow we managed to keep going economically, and it's it 223 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: still exists thanks to the feminist majority which took it over. 224 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: You know, a magazine seems like an artifact from a 225 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: very long time ago for most young people, but holding 226 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: that magazine, buying it on a newsstand, sharing it with 227 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: your friends, it was a huge, huge earthquake in the 228 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: lives and minds and thinking and opportunities. And I like 229 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: that's a phrase you use often, talking circle. I like 230 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: that a lot well. And actually my idea of heaven 231 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: is an editorial meeting, because you're all sitting around a 232 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: table and you all get to say whatever it is 233 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: you think is important and and and what comes out 234 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: of the meeting is more and better than any individual 235 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: could have done by themselves. It's heaven. I don't it 236 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: happens in political campaign absolutely absolutely, and you know, the 237 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: diversity of opinion and experience it makes for a better outcome. 238 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: I don't know why that's so hard for people to 239 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: understand and accept. You know, I was really struck by 240 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: the recent series Mrs America, and I think I shared 241 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: the reaction you had to it for those listening to 242 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: us talk about it. It was a series that primarily 243 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: followed Philish Laughley, the anti feminist anti e r A 244 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: activist and mouthpiece for a lot of other interests at work, 245 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: and I think the series gives her more credit than 246 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: she deserves. I mean, she was a player in the 247 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: demise at that time of the e R A. But 248 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: you actually wrote an article, you know, an outped piece 249 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: to express your concerns about the way that series portrayed 250 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: the struggle and Laughley in particular. What were the points 251 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: you were worried about. Well, I was concerned that it 252 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: was the cat fight theory of history. That is, uh, 253 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: the idea that the equal Rising it was defeated by 254 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: other women, when in fact, at the time I wrote 255 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: that together with Ellie Smail, who was more influential and 256 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: than I in and working for the Equal Rights Amendment. 257 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: And as Ellie said, she could never find that Philoslaflely 258 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: determined even one vote. I mean, it was the financial interests, 259 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: the insurance industry that defeated the Equal Rights Amendment, and 260 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: that employed her as a kind of cover for state 261 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: legislators who were voting against the equal rights of enmen. Anyway, 262 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: and you know, certainly one op ed can't contend with 263 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, all those episodes. But I didn't want women 264 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: to think that other women had defeated them, when in 265 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: fact it was economic interests that defeated the Equal Rights Amendment. Well, 266 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: it's so interesting because in this year of the centennial 267 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth Amendment, people also overlook the role that 268 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: big corporate interests played in trying to prevent women from 269 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: getting the amendment passed. Elaine Weiss's you know, really compelling 270 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: book called The Woman's Hour, which zeroes in on the 271 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: very final you know, vote, which was in the Tennessee 272 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: legislature points out that the liquor industry, the railroad industry, 273 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: a lot of big, powerful forces did not want women 274 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: to vote. They view that as a direct threat to 275 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: their financial interests. Yes, you know one question I hate 276 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: getting and don't answer it because people always say, well, 277 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: what do you think about your legacy? You know, that 278 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: to me implies that we're not still out there, We're 279 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: not still working and talking and thinking and you know, 280 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: trying to influence events. So I'm not going to ask 281 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: you about that, but I want to ask you about 282 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: what work is still to come for you. What are 283 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: you working on now? Well, what I'm working on now 284 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: is with two friends, Beverly Guy Chef Tell and Paula 285 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: Gettings women. Perhaps, you know, we all kind of got 286 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: mad at the same time, I would say, or we 287 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: were permanently met about the fact that the women's movement 288 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: is regarded in the public eye as more a white 289 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: women's movement than a Black women's movement, especially in its beginnings. 290 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: You know, So we are together, the three of us 291 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: writing a book about what you might call the missing 292 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: figures the black feminists of the sixties, seventies, eighties, that's terrific. 293 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: That's a big piece of business, something that is you know, 294 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: really needed. It's kind of the way that a lot 295 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: of recent writers and historians have tried to write in 296 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: black suffragists who had been largely written out, had been overlooked. Yes, exactly, 297 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: it's really important that in the I don't know if 298 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 1: it's second wave modern, how are we described the women's 299 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: movement of you know, the sixties and on that you 300 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: know that there's a real reflection of the entire diversity. Yes, 301 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, we had that struggle with 302 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: statues in Central Park, you know, to make sure that 303 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: there wasn't just two white women on a pedestal. And 304 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: thank goodness, we've got so journal truth and yes, you know, 305 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: the first statuary of actual historic women. Yes, otherwise we 306 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: just had Alice in Wonderland in Central Park. Even even 307 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: the dog is a guy that you know, you know, 308 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: I have I also have to ask you, what have 309 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: you thought about when you look at the next year's 310 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: had in terms of the challenge of your own keeping 311 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: going of being you know, the vibrant person. I mean, 312 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're all getting older, we know that. But 313 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I don't think we can do 314 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: without your voice, without your presence. So are you taking 315 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: care of yourself? Are you, you know, working to ensure 316 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: that you're you know, physically and spiritually and every other way, 317 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, filled up and ready for what comes next? Uh? 318 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: I don't know that I'm making a conscious effort. I mean, 319 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: I've never been a person who jogged, but I'm lucky 320 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: to be healthy. I mean, you know, my back hurts 321 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: and a few things are out of it open, I'm okay, 322 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: And I think probably what keeps us the healthiest is 323 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: loving what we do. Absolutely, and I think our friends, 324 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean men as well as women, but especially our 325 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: women friends. Right. Yeah, I don't know what I would do. 326 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: I don't know how you keep going without your women. 327 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: It's a chosen family. It is a chosen family, and 328 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: you've You've chosen well. From all of the people that 329 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: I know who adore, love and support you and Glory, 330 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: I just love talking to you any chance I get, 331 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: So thank you for hopping on this podcast. Well, thank you. 332 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: I feel invigorated. Maybe I've got to keep going. Write 333 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: three pages to learn more about Gloria's life and work. 334 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: Pick up her incredible memoir My Life on the Road 335 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: and check out The Gloria Is starring Julianne Moore and 336 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: Alicia VI Candor, telling the story of Gloria's life. It's 337 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: out now on Amazon Prime. My next guest is the 338 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: amazing Dr Mona Hannah a Tsha. You know, I cannot 339 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 1: tell you what it's like being in a room with 340 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 1: Dr Mona. I think you'll get a sense of it 341 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: as you listen to our conversation. She is one of 342 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: the most dynamic, passionate, caring, smart people you will ever 343 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: run across. She's best known as the researcher and pediatrician 344 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: who has spoken out about the Flint water crisis. She's 345 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: testified three times before Congress. It was our advocacy, more 346 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,719 Speaker 1: than anything else, that put the nation's eyes on Flint 347 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: and raised this horrible problem of how bad decisions made 348 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: by government leaders actually contaminated water with lead that was 349 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: being drunk by not only the adults, but most poignantly, 350 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: the children of Flint. This summer, the residents of Flynn 351 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: got some good news for a change. A lawsuit that 352 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: they filed against the state of Michigan was settled for 353 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: six hundred million dollars the largest settlement in Michigan history, 354 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: and nearly eight of those funds are going to the 355 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: children whose health and lives have been so impacted. This 356 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: is a very important step in the right direction. But 357 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: let's be honest, there are flints all over the country 358 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: and our work is far from done. And I want 359 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: people to understand what it takes to be a citizen 360 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: leader an advocate the way Dr Mona was, because I 361 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: think we're gonna need a lot of that in the 362 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: years to come all over America. Well, first let me 363 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: ask you, how are you doing here? We are six 364 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: months into the COVID quarantine lockdown pandemic. Uh. You know, 365 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: every day is a different day, and it is bizarre. 366 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: My kids are upstairs in remote school, my husband's working remotely. 367 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: I still get to see patients, so I still get 368 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: to go to clinic. But you know, our world, all 369 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 1: of our worlds, are are upside down. And if I recall, 370 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: you actually had COVID last spring, didn't you. Yeah, I 371 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: had COVID in March and uh fortunately had a more 372 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: mild case. Lost my sense of smell and taste for 373 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: two months, which was absolutely bizarre, especially for an Arabic person. 374 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: Who loves food and spices and eating um, but unfortunately 375 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: recovered and donated my plasma three times. Is how hopefully 376 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: a tiny way to help others who are a lot sicker. Well, 377 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you are Arabic, so tell us a 378 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: little bit about your background. Mona. Yeah, so I'm an immigrant. 379 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: I wasn't born here. I'm Iraqi American. We came to 380 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: this country when I was four and we were leaving 381 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: somewhere terrible the dictatorship of Saddam usean for something better, um, 382 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: and I was able to grow up where my diversity 383 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: was was celebrated. I thus grew up confident and competent 384 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: and really committed to service with this immigrant perspective of 385 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: being every day grateful to be in this country, but 386 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: also acutely aware of what kind of injustice can be 387 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: and what people in power can do to vulnerable populations. 388 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons that drove 389 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: me into into a career in service, into medicine, and 390 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: to into social justice and um ultimately into serving vulnerable populations. 391 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: So you became a pediatrician and you set up a 392 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: practice in Flint, Michigan. Is that right? Yep? In what 393 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: year was that. So I came to Flint in two 394 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: thousand eleven. UM, but I was first in Flint as 395 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: a medical student with Michigan State University. So I did 396 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: my clinical training as a medical student in Flint, where 397 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: I really fell in love with the city. I fell 398 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: in love with the people, with that loyalty and the 399 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: grit and the resilience. I left Flint for about a 400 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: decade to go to Detroit to do my pediatric training 401 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: at the Children's Hospital in Detroit, and then came back 402 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: to Flint in two thousand eleven to run the residency 403 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: program to really train the next generation of pediatricians. And 404 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: so that's what you were doing when what we know 405 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: of as the Flint water crisis really began. When did 406 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: you first figure out that something was going on? So 407 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: I was, you know, practicing as a pediatrician. Moms would 408 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: would come in and ask if they should be mixing 409 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: their baby's formula with the tap water in Flint. Um. 410 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: They'd be concerned about their kids rashes that might have 411 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: been related to their water or some other concern. And 412 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: for over a year as a pediatrician with my you know, 413 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: white coat on, full of confidence, I was reassuring my 414 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: patients that, of course our water is okay. I mean, like, 415 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: this is America, right, like the twenty one century It's 416 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Michigan is surrounded by the largest source of fresh water 417 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: in the world. So all those things were running through 418 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: my head when patients were presenting before me with concerns 419 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: about the water. And on top of all of that, 420 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: I knew that there was rules and laws and people 421 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: that when they wake up in in the morning, their 422 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: job is to make sure that our public health is safe. 423 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: And that all changed for me when I heard about 424 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: the possibility of lead being in the water. Well, as 425 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: I remember, you became aware of it through a friend 426 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: of yours who actually worked for the Environmental Protection Agency. 427 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: How did that happen? Yeah, So this is one of 428 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: my favorite stories, and it speaks to the power of girlfriends. 429 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: My high school girlfriend, of all things, was in town. 430 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: She had been in d C for over a decade 431 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: working at the e p A or the Focus in 432 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: Drinking Water, and so she just happened to be at 433 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: my house for a last minute barbecue and our children 434 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: were running around and she corners me in my kitchen 435 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: and she shares that the water in flint isn't being 436 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: treated properly. She had just seen a memo written by 437 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: one of her former colleagues at the e p A. 438 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: And she shared that this memo said that the water 439 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: wasn't being treated with something called corrosion control, and her 440 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: eyes lit up and I'm like, I have no idea 441 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: what corrosion control is, um. And she also shared that 442 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: without that really critical ingredient, there would be lead in 443 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: the water. Um. So it was pure serendipity that I 444 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: was informed of the possibility of lead, and that really 445 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of changed the trajectory of my work. So you 446 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: get what I view as an explosive piece of information. 447 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: What did you do then? Um? I stopped sleeping, I 448 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: stopped eating, like I literally lost thirty pounds, and I 449 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: became consumed with this knowledge that something in our water 450 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: was literally taking away the potential of our children. And 451 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: it was this drive in me that had to protect 452 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: my kids. And you know, writing a book has kind 453 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: of made me really reflective, like like why like why 454 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: did you do that model? Like why why did you 455 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: just you know, so many people had closed their eyes 456 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: to this. So many people literally closed their eyes and 457 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: looked away and couldn't have cared less about what was 458 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: happening in flint Um. And I think it was partly 459 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: that that immigrant perspective of kind of fighting for justice, 460 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: of serving the underserved. My parents have always taught me 461 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: to do kind of the right thing, even if it's 462 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: the hard thing. Um. It's also that obligation as a 463 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: as a physician, you know, as a pediatrician, like I've 464 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: literally taken an oath, you know, to protect children. But 465 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: more than that, it's you know, a doctor or not. 466 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 1: This is all of our civic responsibility. And I think 467 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: that's the biggest lesson of our story, that we all 468 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: have this duty to open our eyes to justices that 469 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: are happening around us, and more importantly to act um. 470 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: And for me it was a choiceless choice. There was 471 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: no other option than to go forward. And for me, 472 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: going forward was to do the research to see if 473 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: it was increasingly in the bodies of our children. And 474 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: that's when you started to take blood samples from your 475 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: pediatric patients. Because I want to underscore what you said, 476 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: there is no safe level of lead in the body, 477 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: and of course with children and their smaller bodies, that 478 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: becomes even you know, more imperative to name it and 479 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: stop it before it affects everything from bodily development to 480 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: mental development and behavioral problems. So once you began gathering 481 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: your data, what did you do next and how did 482 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: you make it public? We conducted the research really in 483 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: record pace, over a matter of weeks, which would have 484 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: taken kind of months if we had sleft, but obviously 485 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: that wasn't an option. Um that we had to figure 486 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: out what was going on, and what we found is 487 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: that the blood levels of children had increased after the 488 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: water switch, and that nothing was happening to the blood 489 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: the levels of children outside of the city of Flynt. 490 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: It was only happening within the Flint water limits. So 491 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: when we knew this research, we tried to get folks 492 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: to pay attention, but they didn't pay attention. So I 493 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: knew that the only way to get any change to 494 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: happen was to go public, and that's not something that 495 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: academics and researchers and doctors usually do. And this was 496 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: a form of academic disobedience. I think one of my 497 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: favorite accolades I've received was a disobedience award from the 498 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: Mighty for like not publishing this research and a pure 499 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: of view journal first. But any academic will tell you 500 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: that takes a long time. Um that can take months, 501 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: that can take years to get something finally published in 502 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: in an academic journal. And our kids did not have 503 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: another day we and not afore that time. So I 504 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: literally walked out of my clinic with my white coat on, 505 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: and I stood up at a press conference sharing this 506 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: research and demanding action. We're taking a quick break. Stay 507 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: with us. You know, when I heard about this, I 508 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: was so upset because during the course of you know, 509 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: my years of working on behalf of kids and families, 510 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: and then as a senator from New York, I knew 511 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: how dangerous your findings were and how immediately there had 512 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: to be a response. I remember, you know, going to 513 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: Flint and my Steen campaign before a lot of people 514 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: really understood the importance of what you were disclosing. And 515 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: I met a young boy named Jalen who had developed 516 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: side effects from the poison water. He was jumpy, couldn't concentrate, 517 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't sleeping well. And that was exactly textbook because 518 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: if you look at places that have researched lead poisoning, 519 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: they demonstrate all of these side effects and consequences for 520 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: little kids. So you had a press conference, you basically 521 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: told the world this. But I remember the government of 522 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: your state, Michigan, tried to paint you and I quote 523 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: as an unfortunate researcher intent on causing near hysteria. Well 524 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: that's a mouthful. What was your reaction to that kind 525 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 1: of you know, character assassination. My science was denied, it 526 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: was disrespected. I was attacked as a scientist, as a 527 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: physician called you know, they said I was causing near 528 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: hysteria like you said, which is absolutely sexist as well. 529 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: So I felt tiny. I felt small. I began to 530 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: second guess myself. I'm like, oh my gosh, maybe I 531 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: am wrong. Maybe I should have just kept going about 532 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: my busy business as a pediatrician and mom and wife 533 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: and uh. And I also began to feel physically sick, 534 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: like my heart rate was close to two, my hands 535 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: were shaking, and I just could not believe um that 536 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: science and facts, like clear facts and prevention on public health, 537 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: we're being attacked on behalf of our children. Well, you know, 538 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: what you're describing is so resonant with me. Because you 539 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to get it wrong. You believed you actually 540 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: got it right, and you go out there and you 541 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: make this presentation, and yes you are. You're attacked in 542 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: sexist terms, hysterias always used to diminish and undermine women. 543 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: You're attacked on your credentials, You're attacked on the research 544 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: that you had done. And of course you're gonna question yourself. 545 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: And because you know you're out there, you're vulnerable. You're literally, 546 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, putting your life, your reputation, your profession on 547 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: the line. How did you find the courage to continue 548 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: in you, you know, standing up and speaking out, even 549 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: at the risk of jeopardizing your career. So it took 550 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: a quick realization that this had nothing to do with 551 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: me and nothing nothing, nothing to do with me. They 552 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: could go after me all they wanted, but this was 553 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: about my children, and my kids in flant like they 554 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: are no different than my biological children, Like when I'm 555 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: not at home, my children are like moms with our 556 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: six thousand siblings. This was about This was about my 557 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: kids and every single number in my research, and it 558 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: was like all these spreadsheets and exceled documents, every single 559 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: number was a child. And it was probably a child 560 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: that even seen in the last year, and I had 561 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: touched their heads, and I had held their hands, and 562 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: I had examined them, and I knew them and I 563 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: knew their faces. And it was as if those kids 564 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: jumped out of my spreadsheets and lifted me up and 565 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: gave me the courage to keep going. So they're the 566 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: ones that got me in the fight. It was this 567 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: constant grounding in my why and for me, And this 568 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: is a grounding that I do to this day, a 569 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: practice of like why do I wake up? Why did 570 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: I go to school forever? Why am I here? Why 571 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: am I doing this interview? Why am I? You know, 572 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: working like? It's the kids. It is the kids, the privileged, 573 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: the absolute privilege of serving these children. And they gave 574 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: me the courage to keep going. And we fought back 575 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: because we were right. We fall back with more numbers 576 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: and more evidence and more data. Well you know you 577 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: write in your book. So, along with a growing team 578 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: of doctors and scientists, I held a news conference to 579 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: release our findings in demand action. It was an unusual 580 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: thing for a local pediatrician to do, but that's what 581 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: you do. When nobody's listening, you get louder. Now, actually, 582 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: lots of people, especially women, are afraid to get louder. 583 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: You know, we're afraid that we're just going to get 584 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: even more attacked if we stick to our guns and 585 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: we increase the intensity and frankly the volume to try 586 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: to communicate and cut through all of the you know, 587 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 1: the static. I can't help but think mona about what's 588 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: happened with COVID, because the research is pretty clear countries 589 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: run by women have done better. And I honestly believe 590 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: it is connected to the ability to relate to the 591 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: people who are suffering. It's not abstract, it's not statistics, 592 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: it's not you know, numbers on a board somewhere. And 593 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: I think that is really at the heart of what 594 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: you did. I mean you you just refused to be silenced, 595 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: and that, to me is true leadership. And you slowly 596 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: began to get some allies who were those allies who 597 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: who finally came and said, wait a minute, I want 598 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: to hear what she has to say. And you know what, 599 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: I think she's right. Yeah, you know, I think so 600 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: many people think of the Flint story as a as 601 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: a failure of government and so many levels, and and 602 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: for me, it's it's an reaffirmation of what government candy 603 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: um and when you have a whole democracy, because the 604 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: Flint was also a story of what happens when you 605 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: take away democracy. We were under emergency management. Folks were 606 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: being listened to. There was unelected on accountable folks in charge. 607 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: But when you are able to engage your elected officials, 608 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: change can happen. And I think one of our greatest 609 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: allies was our U S. Senator Debbie Stabin. Now when 610 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: she finally kind of understood UM and one of our 611 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: other elected officials understood, she never stopped fighting for Flynn. 612 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: I mean she held up like the energy bill at 613 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: one point, and she continued to advocate to get resources 614 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: for our city. And for me, that was a reminder 615 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: of kind of a power of democracy when its whole, 616 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: when it's complete, when it's representative, UM, you actually have 617 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: people fighting for you. But there were so many allies. 618 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: We really kind of witnessed the generosity in the heart 619 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: of our nation. And we were getting like bottled water 620 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: deliveries from the U a W in Ohio and the 621 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: Ballroom Dance Club in ann Arbor and Girl Scouts in 622 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: Pennsylvan and it was it was so affirming and even 623 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: to this day when I have a chance to talk 624 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: about the story, you know, people do care. They have 625 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: empathy and and they can relate because you know, Flint 626 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: isn't is not this one off story of this crazy 627 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: thing that happened over there um. But it's also about 628 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: other stories that are happening in regards right now, right now, 629 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: public health issues and exactly disrespect of science issues and 630 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: democracy issues and public health, infrastructure issues and dismissing women issues. 631 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: So there's a resonance to the story, and people have 632 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: been allies. Oh I just love those stories. And I 633 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,959 Speaker 1: want to ask you how you're feeling now? Are you 634 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: optimistic in the wake of the six hundred million dollars settlement? 635 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: Are you feeling that, you know, finally these wrongs are 636 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: being righted, even though there's no compensation that will ever 637 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: fully remedy what was done to the people and particularly 638 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: to the children. But you know, weird you think things 639 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: stand now? You know, people would ask me a lot 640 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: about like the investigations and the lawsuits and accountability and 641 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, justice, and I would I would refuse to respond. 642 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a doctor, I'm not a lawyer. Might 643 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: you know, ask the lawyers and the attorney general, like 644 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: my job is the kids. And then as I continued 645 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: to practice in Flynt and work closely with the folks 646 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: most closely impacted by this crisis, I began to realize 647 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: how central the concept of restorative justice is to healing 648 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: and to health. You can think of it like a 649 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: wound that won't close until you have some element of justice. 650 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: And there's all these ongoing traumas that just you know, 651 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,919 Speaker 1: reopen it and it fails to close. So we have 652 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: to have some sort of justice to move forward. The 653 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: settlement on the civil cases is a wonderful first sits up, 654 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 1: It's it's not complete. Um. I've also realized that justice 655 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: is defined differently by by everybody. You can ask ten 656 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: people what was justice and you have ten different responses. Um. 657 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: A lot of also want to see the accountability, which 658 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: are the criminal cases, and those are still pending where 659 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: folks are held accountable for their actions. So I think 660 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: we're in the right direction. Recovery is long term. That's 661 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: a big part of my job is reminding folks that 662 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: this is, you know, a long term crisis that has 663 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: long terms to quel a and we need to make 664 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: sure that we put into place the resources um to 665 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: do this work in the long term. Well, that's a 666 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: wonderful way to sum up what you have done. And 667 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: I love the phrase restorative justice, and I will never 668 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: think of it again without thinking of it as a 669 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: wound that needs to be healed. Sometimes their bodily wounds, 670 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: sometimes their psychic wounds and spiritual wounds. But at a 671 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: time and our nation's history, and really the world's history, 672 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: where inequities growing, where impunity is growing, on accountability is growing, 673 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: we need to have leaders like you, Dr Mona, who say, 674 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we have a higher calling. We are 675 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: better than this, and we need to try, insofar as possible, 676 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: to repair and restore what has been damaged and then 677 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: try to make it better. I'm so grateful to you, 678 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: and uh I can't wait to see what comes next 679 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: as you try to exercise restorative justice for the people 680 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 1: and children of Flint. Thank you, Thank you very much. 681 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: Dr Mona's memoir of the Flint crisis is called What 682 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: the Eyes Don't See, a story of crisis, resistance, and 683 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: hope in an American city. You know, I think it's 684 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: really important to lift up stories of gutsy women like 685 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: Gloria and Dr Mona, because we need that inspiration. We 686 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: also need, frankly, to be shown how we're going to 687 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: make a difference. There's so many problems and issues that 688 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 1: confront us, and there's opportunities everywhere for people to step 689 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: up and make a difference. We could all use some 690 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: of that inspiration right now. So I hope these women's 691 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: courage will inspire you and maybe let us know if 692 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: there's somebody in your life or somebody you admire that 693 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: you want us to talk to as the podcast goes on, 694 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: because we want to lift up the stories of gutsy women, 695 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: because we can all walk a little taller and be 696 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: braver in the pursuit of justice and fairness and equality 697 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: and truth. So please help us do that. You and 698 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: Me Both. Is brought to you by I Heart Radio. 699 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: We're produced by Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo, with help 700 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: from Kuma Aberdeen, Nikki E Tour, Oscar Flores, Brianna Johnson, 701 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: Nick Merrill, Lauren Peterson, Rob Russo and Lona valmro. Our 702 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 1: engineer is Zack McNeice. Original music is by Forest Gray 703 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: and a big thanks to Riverside fem just imagine we 704 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: needed a recording platform that could help us make a 705 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: podcast during a pandemic, and boy did they step up. 706 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: If you like you and me both, spread the word, 707 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: don't keep it to yourself. You can subscribe to you 708 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: and Me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 709 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and while you're there, 710 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,919 Speaker 1: leave us a review. It's a great way to help 711 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: other people discover us, and we'd love to hear from you, 712 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: so send us your questions, your comments, your ideas or 713 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: suggestions for future shows about other Gutsy women to you 714 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,359 Speaker 1: and Me both pod at gmail dot com. Come back 715 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: next week when I'll be talking about resilience with long 716 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: distance swimmer Diana and Naiad author Angela Duckworth and the 717 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: comedian who's been keeping us laughing this election season, Sarah Cooper. 718 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: Don't miss it.