1 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Variety's weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: Jennifer Law's TV business writer. Perkins Miller, CEO of Fandom, 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: has access to some of the most valuable information about 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: media consumers through the fan DNA of Fandom, the world's 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: largest entertainment platform powered by fans themselves, with more than 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: two hundred million monthly years and more than four hundred 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: thousand communities across movies, TV and gaming, Fandom is the 9 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: top entertainment website in teens, young adults, and millennials in 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: the comScore Top one hundred. Previously the GM of America's 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: firstub Hub, chief Digital Officer and head of Media Operations 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: for the NFL, and Executive Vice President of Digital Media 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: at the WWE, Perkins joins me on this episode to 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: talk about Fandom's business, which includes not only Fandom, but 15 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: also Metacritic, Giant Bomb, Game Spot, and TV Guide, How 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: the company is monetizing its first party data on fans, 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: and where Perkins thinks studios and streamers should be spending 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 1: their money amid major cost cutting in Hollywood. Stay tuned 19 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: for more after the break. 20 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 2: And you're back with Perkins Miller. 21 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 3: Perkins Miller, thank you so much for taking the time 22 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: to talk to me today for our Circtly Business podcast. 23 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 4: Good to see you again, Janny. 24 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: I feel like not. 25 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: Enough people who aren't me and deep fans of a 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: lot of stuff within the industry know exactly what fandom 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 3: is as a business and what it entails. 28 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: So why don't you give us a little rundown? 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 4: Sure, I think Fantom's probably one of those large platforms 30 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 4: that most people have been on but maybe don't realize 31 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 4: it's part of fandom. So you know, our mission is 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 4: to serve these fan communities around the world who love 33 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 4: imagine worlds. So we get into it for gamers or 34 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 4: anime fans, for movie fans, for TV fans, and so 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 4: you know, if you are a fan of these imagined worlds, 36 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 4: whether it's Star Wars or World of Warcraft, you've probably 37 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 4: found yourself on one of our fandom blogs to learn 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 4: and research and either figure out what's happening in a 39 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 4: gamer show. But then you also may have found yourself 40 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 4: in looking up a review at Metacritic or checking out 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 4: the breaking news at game Spot or even looking at 42 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 4: TV listening as at TV Guide or buying a game 43 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 4: at Fanatical. So you know, we have this this network 44 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 4: that essentially orients itself around a fan, and what we 45 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 4: try to do is really super serve that fan so 46 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 4: that they can you know, celebrate their fandom. Frankly, what is. 47 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: The revenue stream? Where are you guys making money from 48 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: in this sure? 49 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 4: And you know, the reach of the business, as you know, 50 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 4: is pretty large. So we do about three hundred and 51 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 4: fifty million visitors a month, so it's pretty significant. We're 52 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 4: a top fifteen Internet platform in the United States, and 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 4: we balance the business between media advertising revenue and direct 54 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 4: to consumer commerce. It's about eighty percent media revenue and 55 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 4: about twenty percent direct to consumer commerce. And that's globally, 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 4: so we do majority of the revenue is transact in 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 4: the United States, but traffic is roughly sixty forty international 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 4: versus US. 59 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 3: And are there places you're looking to expand that and 60 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: new streams you're looking to get into. 61 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 4: We are. We're looking to get into I think areas 62 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 4: where again, fans are exploring their fandom. So you know, 63 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 4: gaming is an area for us that's incredibly deep and 64 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 4: rich and so you know, we were looking. We do 65 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 4: work with partners in esports today. We do and work 66 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 4: and try to find a way to take for example, 67 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 4: our Mudhead and Thuthead, which are these platforms allow esports 68 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 4: players to sort of compete and track and get ready 69 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 4: for the season. For example, we want to explore more 70 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 4: deeply game mods potentially or other things that support gamers 71 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 4: and their game plan. We're also looking at the collectibles 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: because we know that fans love to have collectibles that 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 4: celebrate their fandom, so we have a little bit of 74 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 4: a look at that. And then we're also looking at 75 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 4: other content properties and you know, whether that's audio or 76 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 4: more traditional digital media that again maybe very narrow focused 77 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: on super serving a fan. So we have a business 78 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 4: well Giant Bomb, and that's really focused on passionate gamers. 79 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 4: And so insofar as we can again find things that 80 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 4: we could acquire that help to again flesh out that 81 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 4: experience for fans, that's where we're headed. 82 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: You all just had your Inside Gaming report come out. 83 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: I want to talk about what you found to be 84 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: the most interesting findings there. 85 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, in that case, I think what 86 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 4: we what we discovered, you know, which I think is 87 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 4: something maybe to jump out at you, which is one 88 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 4: is how generational gaming has become. You know, one of 89 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 4: the things that most people probably realize but you know, 90 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 4: haven't kind of understood in depth, is just how many 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 4: generations now people have been playing games. I mean, whether 92 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 4: you're talking about a tabletop game like Dungeons Dragons Beyond 93 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 4: or a console game. I mean, there are now games 94 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: that have been out for thirty or forty years, and 95 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: you know, there's an enormous fan base right now. So 96 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 4: I think for us, I think what was striking was 97 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 4: just the generational reach of gaming. I think a lot 98 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 4: of people think about games as a younger person's passionate pursuit, 99 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: but it's been a younger person's passionate pursuit for thirty 100 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 4: years now, and so suddenly these younger folks are not 101 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 4: as young as they were, and so I think what's 102 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 4: what's remarkable is just the breadth of each of gaming 103 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 4: and I think probably a lot of folks who are 104 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 4: not as close to the industry would be surprised by that. 105 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 4: I think the other thing that jumped out of us 106 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 4: that was interesting was that, you know, gamers are very 107 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 4: open to testing and exploration. I think it's there's probably 108 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,119 Speaker 4: a similarity to people's appetites around you know, sampling TV 109 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 4: shows for example. I think that what's interesting is for 110 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 4: folks who may not be as familiar with the gaming world. 111 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 4: And again, the gaming world breaks into three pretty distinct areas, 112 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 4: right mobile gaming, console gaming, and PC gaming, And I'm 113 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 4: largely talking about the PC gaming and console gaming universes. 114 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 4: Mobile gaming is much more easy to sort of sample 115 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 4: and participate in. It's a much typically lighter weight engagement. 116 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 4: What most people will probably be surprised about is the 117 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 4: openness of folks to really get into PC games and 118 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 4: console games and experiment and try them out. There's always 119 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 4: a little bit of a barried entry. Certainly a barred 120 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 4: entry to gameplay is higher than turning on your television 121 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 4: set or opening your laptop. But you know, the reality 122 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 4: is people are really eager to do that. So I 123 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 4: think I think that I think jumped out at me. 124 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 4: You know, we have these gaming communities and when a 125 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 4: new game comes out, they go and play the game, 126 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 4: and they talk about a walkthrough and they will help 127 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: you kind of get from level to level. And so 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: I think we play a bit of a role there 129 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 4: and trying to help new gamers on board to a game, 130 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 4: and and we really it was encouraging for us to 131 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,679 Speaker 4: reinforce and learn that in fact, most people are actually 132 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: willing to take on and experiment and gameplay despite these 133 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 4: barriers to entry. 134 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 3: With Howard's legacy is kind of a very recent and 135 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 3: huge example. I want to know what you can say 136 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: about the IP world, because you and I have talked 137 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: about this before, how much IP affects fandomom lowercase not fandom, well, 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: fandom overcase. 139 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think the you know the role of these 140 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 4: big franchises we spend a fair amount of time looking 141 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 4: at and I think the you know, there's this relationship 142 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 4: to gaming as a franchise, and typically again it's a 143 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 4: PC gamer, a console game typically, you know, with Angry 144 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 4: Birds being maybe an exception of something crossing over, right. 145 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of this you know world 146 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 4: that gets translated, you know, even from tabletop. You have 147 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 4: a Dungeon and Dragons movie that's out now again came 148 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 4: from that table top world. You've got you know, Last 149 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 4: of Us also one that translated over from the gaming 150 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 4: universes and over they're just there's because the world building 151 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 4: in gaming is so sophisticated over the last decade, it 152 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 4: really lends itself to the sort of broader storytelling. To 153 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 4: go the other way, you know, going and taking a 154 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 4: franchise like Harry Potter and converting the new game, it's 155 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: actually I think a little bit harder in a way, 156 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 4: because you have to take the storyline and then make 157 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 4: the gameplay dynamic and engaging, make the leveling work, and 158 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 4: making sort of the character conflicts be resonant, and and 159 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: so that that's actually a little trickier. And so when 160 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 4: a franchise like the Harry Potter does that really well, 161 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 4: it's actually quite impressive. There are other examples where it 162 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 4: has worked, but it's interesting in my observation is that 163 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 4: it's typically like Halo's another example, like a TV show 164 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 4: that comes out of gameplay because of the depth of 165 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 4: the storylines are so crisp and so clear that you're 166 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 4: able to translate that without having to deal with the 167 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 4: mechanics of gameplay. But so I think what we see 168 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 4: and we observe it again, I've talked to, for example, 169 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 4: folks are at Sony and they have you know, I 170 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 4: think more than a dozen different pilots or projects that 171 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 4: are based on gameplay again, as you know, Sony ons PlayStation, 172 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 4: and so they're able to really cross over that has 173 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 4: them pretty cleanly and really pursue the development of the 174 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 4: TV and movie programming off the game franchises that they 175 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 4: can see and see what have resonance. So I think 176 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 4: you're going to see a lot more of this crossover material. 177 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 4: And I think my sense is because it's easier to 178 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 4: take a st wrong game franchise with strong storylines and 179 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 4: world building and translate it into episodic television or in 180 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 4: movie development, you'll see probably more of that than going 181 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 4: the other direction successfully, because I do think it's harder 182 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 4: to bridge from this TV or studio just pure storyline 183 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 4: into a really compelling game. 184 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: Dungeons and Dragons being another huge example in a timely 185 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: one as well. First, I just wanted to ask for 186 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 3: those who might not know, if you could say a 187 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 3: fantom's relationship with Dungeons and Dragons and Wizards of the 188 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 3: Coast with D and D beyond, what your history has 189 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: been there? 190 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 4: Sure well, we used to own a business called Dutcheons 191 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 4: and Dragons Beyond. And what this was is a set 192 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 4: of tools that were built to help D and D 193 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: players play the game more easily and effectively. What a 194 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 4: team did who built this up and it came out 195 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 4: of a group called Curse Media that point was owned 196 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 4: by Amazon. We acquired that company in that group about 197 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 4: five years ago. And what they did really well had 198 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 4: the insight that, hey, look, the way that Nudget Dragon's 199 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 4: game was played was with these fairly heavy books that 200 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 4: would talk to you about with the campaign or the 201 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 4: story you were pursuing in the game, and then you 202 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 4: had to figure out spells that you could cast together 203 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 4: was your character. So a lot of complexity to playing 204 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 4: the game that was really deriventive of these books that 205 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 4: were published and what they did essentially digitized all that material. 206 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 4: So we digitized all the books and then we came 207 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 4: up with tools that enabled you to effectively play the 208 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 4: game alongside this digital tool set we built and play 209 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 4: the game a little more easily. You know, you could 210 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: figure out what kind of spells or options you had 211 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 4: to play, and it made it more fun for people, 212 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 4: and you could actually build your character up using these 213 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 4: tool sets we had. And so we built a whole 214 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 4: suite of services that surrounded fans of D and D 215 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 4: to enabled them to play the game better, so we 216 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 4: were very close. We had a license from Wizards of 217 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 4: the Coast, which is owned by Hasbro and WIZD the 218 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 4: Coast is the publisher of Dungeons and Dragons, and we 219 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 4: ran that business for you know, again, about forty years 220 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 4: and did it very successfully. We actually sold that business 221 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 4: back to Hazro about a year ago for roughly one 222 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 4: hundred and forty three hundred million dollars, so successful transaction 223 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 4: for us and very successful I think for Hasbro as well, 224 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 4: because they're coming out with a sixth edition of Dungeons 225 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 4: and Dragons and that should likely be coming live here 226 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 4: in the next year, so I think they're doing play 227 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 4: testing now and it's a very exciting moment and we're 228 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 4: thrilled that Hasbro and D and D are off to 229 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 4: such a successful run with that business, and we're very 230 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 4: happy to become a part of it too to help 231 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 4: kind of build up the digital side of that experience 232 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 4: over the course of several years. 233 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 3: With that being a big example of how well fandom 234 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: is at looking at insights, finding ways for this to 235 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 3: be useful, not just a fas but enough that has 236 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: wanted it back to be able to use those insights 237 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: to create better products and experiences. Can you elaborate on 238 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 3: ways that fandom is doing that with other companies insids 239 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: You all provide partnerships for that, And I know D 240 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 3: and D Beyond is a huge undertaking this specific case, 241 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 3: But if you're looking to do other things like that, 242 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: I know it's a big thing to devote to, but 243 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 3: I don't know that something you guys are interested in exploring. 244 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: Again, we do. 245 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: A lot of work with various media and gaming publishers 246 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 4: in terms of helping them strategically. And you know, we 247 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 4: don't have a specific license similar to what we did 248 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 4: with D and D, so we're not licensing something from 249 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 4: Warner or licensing something from take to Interactive right now, 250 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 4: where we're helping to kind of develop the tools. Typically, 251 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 4: what we're doing today is we use this platform what 252 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 4: you call fan DNA, So as you imagine with three 253 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 4: hundred fifty million folks coming through every month in the 254 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 4: gaming and movie and TV and anime ecosystem, we have 255 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 4: a lot of insights in terms of what's working and 256 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 4: not working, and you know where you can kind of 257 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 4: look for you know, how to develop a character, how 258 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 4: to launch a show. We can really help you understand 259 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 4: the market really clearly, in fact, in real time and 260 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 4: a little bit even with some predictive analytics. So we 261 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: have built this data infrastructure under Fandom where we've got 262 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 4: two trillion data points, we've got a taxonomy, we've got 263 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 4: structured data. And what we're able to do is we 264 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 4: go work with partners like Paramount for example, and as 265 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 4: they're looking to build and launch franchises, you know, we're 266 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 4: able to give them the insights to help them calibrate 267 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 4: both some of the development work but also some of 268 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 4: their marketing to make sure it's going to be most effective. 269 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 4: And that's just one example. We do it with a 270 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 4: number of We've done it with Amazon, We've done with 271 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 4: a number of HBO. Max is another one we've partnered with. 272 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 4: So we effectively become a bit of this can sultancy 273 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 4: for the gaming and movie and TV publishers so that 274 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 4: they're able to do a little bit more effective job 275 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 4: and prepping and and then launching programming. 276 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: For the fan. 277 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 3: DNA is that also used as that is that a 278 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: revenue stream? Is that a product that you are you're 279 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 3: selling to these companies for these insights we do. 280 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 4: We we sell it on a on a very bespoke 281 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 4: basis to clients. You know, we we basically go and say, okay, 282 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 4: what problem are you trying to solve? And then based 283 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 4: on kind of how we look at what problem they 284 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 4: have to solve and what data sets we have, we'll 285 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 4: actually do a bespoke bit of analysis and research potentially 286 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 4: and again apply a little bit of our special sauce 287 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 4: a little bit of predictive analytics to give a sense 288 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 4: of kind of where things may be headed. And and 289 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 4: we do charge for that, and that's part of the 290 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 4: services that we provide for larger clients. You know, you 291 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 4: have to be you know, be a participant at some 292 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 4: scale for us, because it does take resources. Even though 293 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 4: we're charging for it, it does there's always opportunity costs 294 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 4: to be really building bespoke product at that scale. There's 295 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 4: a path for us where we can actually take the 296 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 4: tools we've built so you know, as you can imagine 297 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 4: fan DNA, we've got these you know, really at scale 298 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 4: analytical insights that we've actually built an interface for so 299 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 4: that we can essentially do our jobs more efficiently. And 300 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 4: there's this there's a sense that we might productize that 301 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 4: and bring that to market. That's a line of business, 302 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 4: a SaaS line of business that I think takes a 303 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 4: lot of rigorous planning, and it's unclear yet where the 304 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 4: right to win is in terms of what problem we're 305 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 4: solving for, you know, an HBO max or a paramount 306 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 4: or take two or an EA like you know, I 307 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 4: think they each have very again marks. My experience has 308 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: been very bespoked needs because this specific game is targeted 309 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 4: to this specific market and this is the actions we 310 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 4: need to make some decisions around my sentences right now. 311 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 4: We have to do so much work to kind of 312 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 4: get that exactly right in the target that building the 313 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 4: sort of bigger framework is a little bit more difficult 314 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 4: to do right, and it's a little bit better for 315 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 4: us to do a custom for them, and it's try 316 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 4: to build some you know, one size fits all applications. 317 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 5: We'll be back with more from Perkins after this break, 318 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 5: and you're back with Perkins Miller. 319 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: What draws people to fin and what helps to get 320 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 3: the level of engagement that you all have that keeps 321 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: this community going well. 322 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 4: I think you know you know this very well because 323 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 4: the businesses you study and report on. You know, there's 324 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 4: probably you know, the fandom you know, is made up 325 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 4: a fan, and fans are fanatics, right, and so you 326 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 4: know it's that fanaticism that is what really drives our communities. 327 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 4: So people are you know, really fanatic about you know, 328 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 4: how to you know, how to get into the Potter 329 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 4: verse in greater depth and greater detail. And they want 330 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 4: to debate, you know, the structure of Hogwarts, you know, 331 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 4: and understand like you know, was it a medieval castle 332 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 4: really or no? Or is it is it a school? 333 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 4: And you know Cottswald, you know, where is it? You know, 334 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 4: so there's you know, these these are rigorous, like incredibly 335 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 4: rich debates and sort of again fanatical, uh, passion around 336 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 4: these imagined worlds is basically what drives phantom. You know. 337 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 4: So we have people, hundreds of thousands of people that 338 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 4: are creating content every month because they want to demonstrate 339 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 4: knowledge and they want to help other fans, you know, 340 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 4: be a part of these communities that they love. And 341 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 4: then we have the millions and millions of people who 342 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 4: come to get served by that, you know, and they're 343 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 4: because they've got questions they're answering, you know or want 344 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 4: to answer. They're debating something in a bar, debating something 345 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 4: in a dorm room, you know, and that's where we 346 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 4: provided and and so that degree of service and that 347 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 4: degree of sort of engagement is just I think fundamentally 348 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 4: part of like how fans show up in the world. 349 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 4: And you see that in sports, right, I mean, no 350 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 4: one thinks twice of like seeing somebody, you know who's 351 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 4: going after the Las Vegas Raiders and they're painting their 352 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 4: faces and they're showing up in costume, and they're like, 353 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 4: everybody sort of thinks that's just the nature of sport. 354 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 4: And I think it's what's remarkable for folks who haven't 355 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 4: seen it is that fans of these ips do the 356 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 4: same thing. It's called cosplay. They paint their face, they 357 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 4: get dressed up, they go to comic cons, and essentially 358 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 4: they demonstrate the exact same degree of passion as sports 359 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 4: fans do. It just happens to be around these imagined 360 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 4: worlds and not about, you know, the score on the field. 361 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: I want to talk about URL's ability to dominate Google 362 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 3: rig and ringings. 363 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: Regularly. 364 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: I google something very often, Perkins, if I have a 365 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 3: very specific question. 366 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: Fandom is going to be the first result, and. 367 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: That's ahead of honestly sometimes variety of or news publications. 368 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 3: This fan content that is so in depth and so 369 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: detailed about something within a series, within a movie, within 370 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 3: a game, and how you will think that you get 371 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: to that level and that it rises above everything else. 372 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 4: I think the reason why we do well in Google 373 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 4: is because Google rewards credible and authentic content. It's sort 374 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 4: of they've built the business around there for the last 375 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 4: fifteen twenty years. And you know, we get really good 376 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 4: page ranking because the content is so credible and like 377 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 4: you say, so deep. And you know, when you have 378 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 4: forty million pages of content that are inside these imagining 379 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 4: worlds with such rich depth to them, you know we're 380 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 4: we you know, we have a corpus of content that 381 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 4: is really unmatched, and so you know, Google recognizes that, 382 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 4: and of course we do the right work technically to 383 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 4: make sure that we're syncd up to how their search 384 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 4: callers run. But I think really it has to do 385 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 4: with how good the community is of keeping the content 386 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 4: really fresh and really relevant. It depends on the franchise. Obviously, 387 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 4: take me into Lauren for example. You know, I mean, 388 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 4: and when that is the next season is announced, there'll 389 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 4: be a page on fandom that it's coming, and people 390 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 4: then will you know it's interested. There's not very much speculation. 391 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 4: Its basically by the book, like what do we know today, 392 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 4: what is likely to be the you know, readily high 393 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 4: probability to storyline for this, and then really as soon 394 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 4: as the show premieres, you'll find us standing up the 395 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 4: content to you know, make sure folks have the best 396 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 4: insights of what's going on with it. There are other 397 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 4: instances though, that we work especially with new franchises that 398 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 4: are being launched as gaming publishers, particularly who are launching 399 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 4: a new game. You know, as you know, when you 400 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 4: jump a new game, you often don't know where you're 401 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 4: going and what you're doing. And so what we work 402 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 4: with game publishers is we actually build out wikis and 403 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 4: blogs in advance of the game launch and so so 404 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 4: we get exactly accurate and we have the full walkthrough 405 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 4: and we've got tons of details so that when the 406 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 4: game hits the market and people are stuck or have 407 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 4: a question, they can jump in and get the insights 408 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 4: and they to go through and play their game better. 409 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 4: So for you know, we that's typically work the TV 410 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 4: movie side of things, you know, because it's pretty simple 411 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 4: to kind of here's what happens the play by play, 412 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 4: so to speak of the show, and here's the context, 413 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 4: and you can link back to prior episode, prior episodes 414 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 4: of the franchise. We kind of work the community works 415 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 4: out in real time for the game business. Because game publishing, 416 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,479 Speaker 4: especially new stuff, is complicated. We'll definitely work with them 417 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 4: in advance to make sure the content gets uploaded and 418 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 4: we have the reach to make sure it's really relevant. 419 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 4: They're sometimes more right than the franchise owners themselves. So 420 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 4: we actually get a fair amount of feedback, you know, 421 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 4: from you know, very large IP holders who will go unnamed, 422 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 4: whose you know, showrunners come to fandom to check storyline 423 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 4: and make sure they're not you know, getting out of 424 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 4: sequence here, getting out of the the lane, so to 425 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: speak of what's credible. So yeah, our community is pretty 426 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 4: solid when it comes to policing and keeping things credible. 427 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: We touched on this a little bit when I asked 428 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 3: about the Inside Gaming Report. How many reports you all do. 429 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 3: There's a very good streaming one that I myself rely 430 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 3: on when it comes out, And you talked about this 431 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 3: a little bit when I brought up the I point, 432 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 3: But I'd love to know if there are certain points 433 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: from the more recent reports that you all did within 434 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 3: streaming that you think would be the most interesting highlights 435 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: for those been business minded folks in the industry. 436 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 4: That's a great question. And you know, on the state 437 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 4: of streaming, which is the one we've done recently on 438 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 4: sort of the streaming franchise and this one, I think 439 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 4: we've done a couple snapshots of research which really I 440 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 4: think validated, and I think that what really stands out 441 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 4: to me is the power of franchise and I think 442 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 4: what you'll see and this shows up both in terms 443 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 4: of attracting new subscribers and reducing churn, which are two 444 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 4: things that these streaming businesses are massively focused on right now. 445 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 4: And I think what we saw about a year ago, 446 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 4: maybe year and a half ago, was that you you know, 447 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 4: the businesses that focused on franchise strength and building on 448 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 4: franchises did much better in terms of retention and also 449 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 4: we think mitigating churn. And so you know, I think 450 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 4: what the observation is, you know, how do you you know? 451 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 4: And this is where you know, someone like a Disney 452 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 4: or someone like a Warner and HBO have so much 453 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 4: leverage because they have franchises that are deep paramounts. Another 454 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 4: example of a of a streaming AA has a strong 455 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 4: bench of deep franchises. And you know, I think our observation, 456 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 4: my kind of personal opinion, is that you know, if 457 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 4: you're sitting inside one of those streaming businesses, you know, 458 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 4: I would focus eighty percent of my time, you know, 459 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 4: on how do I exploit these franchises and do spin 460 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 4: offs that are relevant incredible because you know, we're in this, 461 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 4: you know, pretty challenging attention economy, and so you know, 462 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 4: in order for you or I to kind of pay attention, 463 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 4: it's got to have some context and some relevancy. And 464 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 4: it's a heck of a lot easier for me to go, oh, 465 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 4: is that a Is that a spin off of Star 466 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 4: Wars Mantle Learn? Oh? Yeah, yea, I remember that guy, Right, 467 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 4: I'll check that out, because like again, I have a 468 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 4: thread of context to pick up, and that's probably more 469 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 4: likely that I'm going to pick up that thread of 470 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 4: context than just a brand new show at a whole clock, 471 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 4: no matter how much marketing that streaming service may do. 472 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 4: And I think I think you probably see you've seen 473 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 4: more of that. You think you've seen Netflix sort of 474 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 4: pivot more from volume and into franchise extension, and I 475 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 4: think you should we'll see a lot more of that. 476 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 4: And again it's why Sony's looking at the gaming side 477 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 4: of the business. 478 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 3: It's a great point with where you think that they 479 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 3: should focus the good amount of their time, especially with 480 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 3: content spend being a big topic of conversation right now 481 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 3: as everyone going looking closer at earnings results and talking 482 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 3: about where we can save money right now with macroeconomic concerns. 483 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: So I wonder if you think, you know. 484 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 3: As we're going into discussions about these companies and where 485 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: they're going with their content for the next couple of years. 486 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 3: You know there's top of HBO, Max Harry our series, 487 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 3: and if that is you know where you kind of 488 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 3: see the next year of choices about green Landing series 489 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 3: and you know we're the Discovery is another example of 490 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 3: talk about Lord of the Rings movies coming out and 491 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 3: if these really are spaces where you know you can 492 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 3: have new stuff, but if this is the place where 493 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 3: right now, when costs are concerned, that you should be 494 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 3: spending your money. 495 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you've nailed it. You know, my view 496 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 4: is that if again, you don't want to stifle innovation, 497 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 4: I think creativity is incredibly important, and I do think 498 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 4: you want to see that breakout show that is interesting 499 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 4: or that movie that was you know, greenlit because the 500 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 4: story was so remarkable, then it breaks the the mold. 501 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 4: And I you know, wouldn't suggest that anybody should should 502 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 4: stop those kinds of activities. I think they're important obviously 503 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 4: from a creative standpoint, but from an economic one, which 504 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 4: is the question you're answer asking, like, what is the 505 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 4: most economically smart thing to do? I think the most 506 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 4: economically smart thing to do is to focus on franchises 507 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 4: and figure out your scaled production against them. So you know, 508 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 4: it's if you can do three movies, you know, on 509 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 4: a single set of cast and a budget framework and 510 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 4: a production strategy that's tied to a major franchise, I mean, 511 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 4: I suspect that's going to get a lot more traction, 512 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 4: a lot more efficiently. Uh then funding three independent creative 513 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 4: projects with some uncertain resonance. And I think the things 514 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 4: that and you know, the things that kind of work 515 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 4: in the markets today, I mean we've I don't think 516 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 4: we've we've exhausted this sort of superhero comic book character Lane. 517 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 4: I think we'll see what DC comes up with. I 518 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 4: think that's a lot of strength there, because again, franchise help. 519 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 4: But I also think there's a lot more to be 520 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 4: done on the fantasy side. Lord of the Rings, you 521 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 4: know where where that goes think is huge. I think 522 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 4: there's more to be done again gaming crossovers who talk 523 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 4: about uh, I think there's tons of fantasy there. Even 524 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 4: dn D is a good example another fantasy dream. I 525 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 4: think that's this idea of magic and fantasy. Still, I 526 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 4: think being really resonant with people is something that I 527 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 4: don't think is going to uh go away anytime soon. 528 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 3: You guys haven't been immune to the same thing everyone 529 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 3: else has been dealing with. There's been recent layoffs across 530 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 3: multiple companies and fandoms, not an exception. 531 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: I'd like to know, you know, how you kind of 532 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: see the future. 533 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 3: And going forward and growth against these developments. You know, 534 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 3: you have Giant Bomb, you have game Spot, you have Metacritic, 535 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 3: tv Guide, and across these you know, things were kind 536 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: of affected. So I'd like to know what your vision 537 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 3: is right now and how you see these brands working 538 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: together moving forward. 539 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 4: I think what we've you know, what we see, and 540 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 4: there's so much potential these platforms is just how they 541 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 4: can super serve these audiences. So, you know, game spot 542 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 4: is the leading voice and gaming information and rap It 543 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: also does ratings, but it gives that sort of insight 544 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 4: and voice what's happened in the game community. It's been 545 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 4: doing so for a long time. Metacritics another one. I 546 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 4: think it's the most credible game rating tool and media 547 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 4: rating tool in the business. I think the way it 548 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 4: synthesizes ratings were around the globe and provides insights huge 549 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 4: amount of leverage. You know, where we see connective tissue 550 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 4: is we see a connective tissue to or fanatical game sales. 551 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 4: So you know, boy, you're looking for a game to play, 552 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 4: or going to Metacritic to see whether it's good or not. Boy, 553 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 4: you like it, you think it's reviewed, well, you're going 554 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 4: to go buy it on fanatical, So that point of 555 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 4: connection is really good. Or you're playing the game and 556 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 4: you're a little stuck, so you go to the wikian fandom. Oh, 557 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 4: you get unstuck, and that allows you to finish the game, 558 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 4: which then allows you then to go maybe get more 559 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 4: deeply connected to a community, which you may find yourself 560 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 4: on Giant Bomb because you're like, oh wow, do you 561 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 4: hear my people? So to speak. So I think what 562 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 4: we see is again this this idea that there's a 563 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 4: thread that connects people's fan passions that kind of loop 564 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 4: through our businesses, and you know, the investment we make 565 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 4: are to make them kind of better, faster and stronger. 566 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 4: And you know, to be clear, we are investing in 567 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 4: all of these properties. You know, there's there's a growth 568 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 4: orientation here. You know, we're a profitable growth company, and 569 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 4: so we continue to hire, we continue to scale the business. 570 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 4: Now we have to be deliberate about where we invest 571 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 4: and we focus resources and where they're going to have 572 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 4: big impact. And that does include like Metacritic, for examples, 573 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 4: getting replatformed. It's going to go live here in another 574 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 4: two or three months and that's a pretty big investment, 575 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 4: which are highly confident it's going to have a big result. 576 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 4: We're also building a ton of tools on Fantom's core, 577 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 4: thinking about Bingebot coming back to life and quizzes and 578 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 4: other things which we think are going to provide again 579 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 4: more engagement. So the way we look at it is. 580 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 4: You know, we think the fan centric focus is what 581 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 4: really will drive our business, and we are really kind 582 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 4: of deliberate about, Okay, where can we put some resources 583 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 4: and investment to maximize that impact. 584 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: And if you guys are looking for owns of funding 585 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: or investors, what Cashalow looks like right now. 586 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 4: I mean, we're in great shape, so we're we're quite 587 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 4: profitable business. We have a lot of cash on our 588 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 4: balance sheet, we have no debt, so actually we're not 589 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 4: we're not looking for any funding because we've been profitable 590 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 4: for a fairly long time, last last four years, three 591 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 4: four years, we've we've been able to really build up 592 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 4: a pretty solid foundation to drive growth in the company, 593 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: and we remain quite profitable. So we're not seeking any 594 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 4: external funding right now. 595 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 3: Just for those who listening who might not be aware 596 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 3: who some of the previous investors and partners were in Fantom, 597 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: can you elaborate them. 598 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: A little bit. 599 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 4: Well, we I mean TPG, the private equity firm, took 600 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 4: the majority stake in Fandom about five years ago, you know, 601 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 4: and we've had a number of investors previous who've been 602 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 4: part of the company. We still have Amazon as an 603 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 4: investor in the company, for example, as a minority investor. 604 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 4: Previously we've had Bestmer has been a supporter of the business. 605 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 4: IVP has been a support of the business. Digital Garage 606 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 4: You've been a supporter of the business. So there's been 607 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 4: a number of partners over the years, but from about 608 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 4: last five years forward, it's really been TPG has been 609 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 4: the great partner to help us manage our growth and 610 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 4: provide some of the strategic support to get us where 611 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 4: we are. 612 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: In areas for a group people who attend Comic Con 613 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: like myself might know how important fandom is in event 614 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 3: spaces there and where you all are looking to do 615 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 3: more events and if you all are, and how you 616 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 3: see that as a potential growth area for the business. 617 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 4: We love supporting events so and look forward to seeing 618 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 4: you in July and San Diego at our Comic Con party. 619 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 4: So as you know, we do the largest the largest 620 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 4: party in Comic Con, been doing so years. Is it's awesome, 621 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 4: and we bring fans and it's not just folks like 622 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 4: you and I here are kind of industry insiders. It's 623 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 4: actually bringing fans to the event as well, because that's 624 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 4: kind of how we roll, right. We're a community company. 625 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 4: So we love the fact that we can get into 626 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 4: it with our communities. So we do you know, events 627 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 4: at Comic Conics and Diego Comic con in New York, paxes, 628 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 4: we do esports tournaments. You know, we're we're very engaged 629 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 4: on the event side. We think it's a great way 630 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 4: to you know, connect with our fans. So we continue 631 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 4: to look at that as a sort of the best 632 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 4: way to again bring ourselves I r L you know, 633 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 4: into the into the fan world. 634 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 2: And how often do you find yourselves being the one sought. 635 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 3: Out for these opportunities and sponsors looking for it and 636 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 3: people looking to partner on it. How often our streamers 637 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 3: coming to you, How often Nursuni is coming and we 638 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 3: want to do something with you guys because we see 639 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 3: you as a good way into fans here. 640 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 4: I mean, we're very fortunate. We get that a lot 641 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 4: these days, I think, I mean, the good news is 642 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 4: that fandom has really become a clear sort of segment 643 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 4: of the population that people now understand better. I mean 644 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 4: is you know, I think sports for so long, and 645 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 4: I spent a lot, a fair amount of my career 646 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 4: in sports, you know, for sports was very much the 647 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 4: understood Madison Avenue understood it, you know, because they'd see 648 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 4: it on television and they could go to their stadiums, 649 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 4: and there's a lot of legacy in the sports world, 650 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 4: and people understood that. People for a long time didn't 651 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 4: quite understand the the fandom that we you and I 652 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 4: talk about, which is the you know, millions and millions 653 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 4: of nerds who are into going to comic cons and 654 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 4: going to kind of how do they connect? And so 655 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 4: what we do a lot of the time is we 656 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 4: bridge to two short of communities, so to speak, on 657 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 4: our partners, Like, we have one community, who are the 658 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 4: you know, the folks that you know, you and I 659 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 4: talked to a lot, which is the you know, HBO, 660 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 4: Max Warner Brothers, Combo package, the Amazon's, the take to 661 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 4: the eas who have very specific focused actions and they 662 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 4: want to make sure that we can help bring to 663 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 4: life some of their stories and so we do that. 664 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 4: So Paramount, for example, has been a partner of ours 665 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 4: at the San Diego Comic Con, and we do a 666 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 4: great job. We we we love working with them. We 667 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 4: bring their their actors come and play and role play. 668 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 4: You know that we do an amazing job. I think 669 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 4: helping them connect with fans directly. The other side of 670 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,879 Speaker 4: that partner community are the more Madison Avenue folks who 671 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 4: are trying to understand these worlds. And you know, if 672 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 4: you've never played a video game or you know, never 673 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 4: binge to mean every kind of prize binges series, but 674 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 4: you know, you're trying to understand, like what is it 675 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 4: about Last of Us that's really compelling? Like what does 676 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 4: that audience do? We can actually help breage that. So 677 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 4: we get a lot of conversation, you know, comments from 678 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 4: folks who are just trying to understand how these communities engage. 679 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 4: And so we do things like like the data I 680 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 4: was talking to you about, like we kind of flip 681 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 4: that around to talking about demographics and talking about like 682 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 4: what are millennial is doing which doing? And I think 683 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 4: that's something where, you know, if you're in the consumer 684 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 4: products business, you know you have to have a very broad, 685 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 4: wide net, and sometimes the net you know, space between 686 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 4: the holes is too big and things fall through and 687 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 4: kind of we're there with the sort of fine mosquito 688 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 4: netting and we can catch them because we're so you know, 689 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 4: clearly focused on this very you know, narrow set of 690 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 4: communities at scale. So that's where we work with them 691 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 4: to help kind of give them a sense of like 692 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 4: I want to reach a gen z or who loves fantasy, 693 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 4: you know, and sometimes who's in California, Like we can 694 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 4: kind of get that level of granularities. That's that's been 695 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 4: pretty helpful. 696 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 2: Let's talk about your background. 697 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 3: Let's go into sports and where you start and how 698 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 3: you feel like those previous roles prepared you to lead fandom. 699 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I've done a lot. I've been sort of 700 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 4: in some sort of fan community world most of my career, 701 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 4: so I've I'll say I've worked on four different Olympics. 702 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 4: I was worked on the two thousand and two Olympics, 703 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 4: I worked on the two thousand and eight Olympics, ten Olympics, 704 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 4: was seconded in two thousand a bit in Sydney. So 705 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 4: I've done a lot of that. I helped NBC launch 706 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 4: their sports digital and so I did the first live 707 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 4: stream of an NFL game and uh, you know, Super Bowl. 708 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 4: And I worked for the NFL later on in my 709 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 4: career as a chief digital officer and trying to kind 710 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 4: of build direct to consumer platforms, and that was some 711 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 4: enormous privilege to be able to kind of connect with 712 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 4: that fan base of that scale, both domestically internationally. And 713 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,479 Speaker 4: then my experience has been also more on the fantastical side. 714 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 4: So I ran kind of tech and digital for the WWE, 715 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 4: and there's a fantastic story driven fan world that I 716 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 4: think is as deep and rich as any and you 717 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 4: probably saw the Endeavor deal. I think, you know it 718 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 4: suggests that it's got a long way still to go. 719 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 4: And then I also was in the ticketing world, so 720 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 4: I helped sell tickets when I worked for stub Hub 721 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,919 Speaker 4: running the America's business and a bit a bit more 722 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 4: at one point that was really about, you know, connecting 723 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 4: fans ends with concerts and sporting events and theater productions 724 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,240 Speaker 4: that they love, and so I learned a lot about 725 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 4: how to direct consumer businesses grow and scale. And so 726 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 4: I've had this sort of interesting background of kind of 727 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 4: in different seats of fandoms, whether it's at a global 728 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 4: Olympic scale or a big, high profile kind of NFL 729 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 4: blue chip seat. And then the very powerful, incredibly deep 730 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 4: ww E world and then the really high hih velocity 731 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 4: transaction on the step up ticketing side. To understand exactly 732 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 4: how a secondary market works to get fans tickets to 733 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 4: the shows they want to go to. So that's how 734 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 4: my background when I came and saw this opportunity was like, Wow, 735 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 4: I get to put all my experience to work in 736 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 4: an area that probably not as many people know about. 737 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 4: So it was really a pretty huge opportunity. 738 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 3: When you look at everything you know now from working 739 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 3: with fandom and what you know at the top of that, 740 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 3: what do you wish previous perkins new in those different 741 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 3: roles that you've learned from finnom and all the insights 742 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,240 Speaker 3: you have here and the information you can find out. 743 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 2: About fans, what would that guy want access to? 744 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 4: It's a it's it's a great question, I think. I 745 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 4: think the thing that I I that's that's become much 746 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 4: more clear to me is that how communities are really 747 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 4: the integrity of them really matters. And I think one 748 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 4: of the things I learned, believe it or not, from 749 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 4: WWE was it's always never the fan, it's our fans. 750 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 4: And so this idea that you're you never want to 751 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 4: distance yourself from communities because they're the ones who are 752 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 4: providing you, you know, the engagement that drives the business. 753 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 4: And so I think I probably would have been even 754 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 4: more focused on like, okay, who are these communities of 755 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 4: people and getting even more sort of centered on what 756 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 4: drives them. Let's the intrinsic need and goal of Eagles 757 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 4: fan or an intrinsic goal of a figure skating fan, 758 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 4: or intrinsic goal of a Taylor Swift fan. I mean, 759 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 4: they're so big it's a prodd right, So but I 760 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 4: think you see that, right, I mean, yeah, so the 761 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 4: Swifties are incredibly passionate, right, so where but they're not 762 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 4: all one size fits all, right, there's a lot you're 763 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 4: not right, So so I think that's probably my big 764 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 4: lesson would be that I should probably go, you know, 765 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 4: a couple clicks lower to really get to those commut 766 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 4: that community level. 767 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 2: Well, this has been a wonderful conversation. I really appreciate 768 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 2: you taking the. 769 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,439 Speaker 3: Time to dive into fandom and fandom with me here 770 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 3: work Jennie. 771 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 4: It's been great. Thanks so much for taking the time 772 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 4: and asking me here. 773 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you for joining us for this week's 774 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 6: episode of Variety Strictly Business. 775 00:40:51,640 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: You can find new episodes weekly on Apple Podcasts 776 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 4: The Steep Till Things, Steep Play