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Speaker 1: I don't know stories of things we simply don't know
Speaker 1: the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, the podcast. I am Devin, joined as usual
Speaker 1: by Joe and Steve. We got another mystery for you
Speaker 1: cool not quite to the cooking show phase yet. This
Speaker 1: week we're going to talk about a mystery um that
Speaker 1: we are calling officially the death of Mary Anderson, but
Speaker 1: is actually Jane Doe one nine u f w A.
Speaker 1: No one of those is her real name. Yeah, one
Speaker 1: of them is not her real name. Both of them aren't.
Speaker 1: Probably it's probably neither of them. Um, So quick overview
Speaker 1: of the case as we do. On October nine, a
Speaker 1: woman named Mary Anderson checked into room to fourteen of
Speaker 1: the hotel Vintage Park in Seattle, Washington. She paid cash
Speaker 1: for two nights day and it wasn't really a cheap hotel,
Speaker 1: but she paid cash. And then on Friday morning, when
Speaker 1: chuck out time had come and gone and she didn't
Speaker 1: check out as expected, the hotel staff you know, tried
Speaker 1: to gain access to her room and then couldn't, so
Speaker 1: they it was it was dead bolted, so they had
Speaker 1: the emergency override to get into her room and found
Speaker 1: her dead on the bed. Electronic block. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: they had some sort of a way. You have to
Speaker 1: have some way to get into these rooms, right, and
Speaker 1: there's always dead bodies, and it was a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So they found her dead. She had left a note,
Speaker 1: and then she when they tried to notify next of
Speaker 1: kin or the police trained to notify next of kin
Speaker 1: based on the information she had left, it turned out
Speaker 1: that um, not only was Mary Anderson a fake name,
Speaker 1: but the phone number and the address that she had UM,
Speaker 1: the address was non existent and the phone number didn't
Speaker 1: belong to her. UM, and she's still unidentified. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: appears to have made the name Mary Anderson maybe up
Speaker 1: on the spot. Apparently there's hesitation marks in her signature
Speaker 1: or writing of the names in the note. No, no,
Speaker 1: on the on the stuff of the hotel when she
Speaker 1: signed in. And I canna say on the note there's
Speaker 1: no hesitation, but you know you have to you have
Speaker 1: to fill your paperwork out when you when you Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where the hesitation marks were. And and just remember
Speaker 1: this is pre nine eleven, So when we're talking about
Speaker 1: trying to track her via flights or anything like that, Um,
Speaker 1: that doesn't really happen. And then UM, I presume that
Speaker 1: they since she paid cash upfront, they didn't really care
Speaker 1: if she had a night record or anything. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let's back up a little bit, although there's not
Speaker 1: much backing up to be done because we literally don't
Speaker 1: know anything about where Mary was before she checked in,
Speaker 1: and then once she checked in, she pretty much didn't
Speaker 1: leave the room. She put the do not disturb sign
Speaker 1: up on her door. As far as we can tell,
Speaker 1: like as soon as she checked in dead bolted herself
Speaker 1: in there and just never came out by the time
Speaker 1: they found it. Was she kind of ripe or she like,
Speaker 1: you know, she immediately committed suicide or no, I think
Speaker 1: it was fairly recent. I mean, I don't the room
Speaker 1: wasn't warm or anything like that, and there's no mention
Speaker 1: of her being pungent composing, and it was only two
Speaker 1: days a stable environment like that, I don't think that
Speaker 1: she would have been experiencing any massive degradation, would assume. So, um,
Speaker 1: let I have a copy of the note that she
Speaker 1: left a copy. I have just the note that she left.
Speaker 1: You don't have the actual note. I don't have the
Speaker 1: copy of I just have the words that she wrote. Uh,
Speaker 1: and her note said to whom it made concern, I
Speaker 1: have decided to end my life and no one is
Speaker 1: responsible for my death. Mary Anderson, PS, I have no relatives.
Speaker 1: You can use my body as you choose. So what
Speaker 1: they do with your body? Um, they held it, they
Speaker 1: didn't sell it. No, they held it in the morgue
Speaker 1: for eight months. I think. Well, they were trying to
Speaker 1: identify her and then finally embalmed her and buried her
Speaker 1: in an unmarked grave. But there's a grave number and
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So if you want to go
Speaker 1: visit your grave, yeah, yeah, she's buried um at Seattle's
Speaker 1: Crown Hill Cemetery and she's in grave number one nine
Speaker 1: seven A. So if you want to go visit Mary Anderson,
Speaker 1: Seattle listeners get on that, would you. Yeah? And also
Speaker 1: Seattle listeners if you wouldn't mind swinging by the hotel
Speaker 1: A vintage. I want to know if they still have
Speaker 1: room to fourteen or if that's permanently closed off of time.
Speaker 1: It's my it's actually um my understanding it is closed off.
Speaker 1: Read an article from just a couple of years later,
Speaker 1: and the the investigative reporter said he wasn't able to
Speaker 1: gain access to it, although I'm not sure if that
Speaker 1: means that he was just trying to break into the
Speaker 1: room or if he was trying to rent it, but
Speaker 1: the hotel won't talk about or maybe he was just
Speaker 1: lazy and he wasn't able to gain access because he
Speaker 1: never tried. No, I think he'd tried. Um. Well, this
Speaker 1: is one of the ones that will post um. You
Speaker 1: have to weigh back machine it. But it's an incredibly
Speaker 1: thorough investigation of what happened, I guess. I mean that's
Speaker 1: the frustrating. Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about this case.
Speaker 1: And we'll just talk about everything that we know and
Speaker 1: then we'll talk about everything else. So the note that
Speaker 1: we're talking about that was handwritten, It was handwritten on
Speaker 1: it was I'm sorry, it was quote unquote scribbled on
Speaker 1: a piece of hotel stationary. You know they give you
Speaker 1: those little notebooks or whatever and a pen. So Mary
Speaker 1: was estimated to be between thirty three and forty five
Speaker 1: years old. And we will talk about this later because
Speaker 1: I presume you guys looked at the pictures that she
Speaker 1: does look a little old than that. But we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that in a second. She was about five eight
Speaker 1: five ft eight inches I think it was five eight, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I didn't transfer that into international units. Sorry, that's
Speaker 1: about That's about seventeen kilos and about half a kilometer
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then she weighed two hundred and forty pounds, which I
Speaker 1: think is like two stone maybe I don't know, like
Speaker 1: five thoms. Yes, I'm pretty sure that's accurate. She had
Speaker 1: reddish brown hair and brown eyes, and metric again, that
Speaker 1: is what just kidding, reddish brown and brown. I think
Speaker 1: I think it translates pretty pretty significantly accurately. Significantly, yeah, accurately.
Speaker 1: She had a copper i U D inserted, which is
Speaker 1: birth control for those of interuterine device. She had had
Speaker 1: some sort of breast surgery at some point which produced
Speaker 1: scars on both of her breasts um and then also
Speaker 1: around the nipple area, so it was like from the
Speaker 1: under side um. Her hair was combed, her nails were
Speaker 1: neatly trimmed and painted like a white cream pearl color.
Speaker 1: She had makeup on, she had a dental plate in
Speaker 1: her mouth um, and she was wearing black leggings and
Speaker 1: a black top wa dental plates, so that's basically dentures. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: making sure I understood what that, man, I suddenly realized
Speaker 1: that it wasn't sure she was laying on top of
Speaker 1: the bed. I guess. I don't know if there were
Speaker 1: two beds or one bed in the room, but she
Speaker 1: was laying on top of it. The sheets were turned
Speaker 1: down neatly underneath her, so she had, you know, turned
Speaker 1: the sheets down so that she wouldn't get them dirty,
Speaker 1: and laid on top of them. She was propped up
Speaker 1: against a you know, a bunch of pillows. The top
Speaker 1: are ones, not the ones that you sleep on, the
Speaker 1: decorative ones. They were like a dark print. Um, so
Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, she was trying to be
Speaker 1: as as convenient as possible. What was going to happen after? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: she had a large Bible open, face down on her
Speaker 1: chest to Psalms twenty three, not the hotel Bible. I know.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was the hotel. The impression that
Speaker 1: it was her own bible, somebody's Bible, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: the hotel one. Yeah, and you for those of us
Speaker 1: who don't know, can one of you guys read this
Speaker 1: this psalm? For us? It's pretty normal. This is one
Speaker 1: you've heard. I mean, if you ever watched any TV
Speaker 1: show or any movie where somebody gets killed and they
Speaker 1: cut to the funeral scene, you're hearing one of two songs.
Speaker 1: You're hearing this one or the other one that goes
Speaker 1: ashes to ashes, dust to dust. So this one goes three.
Speaker 1: The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want He
Speaker 1: maketh me to lie down the green pastures. He leads
Speaker 1: me beside the still water. She restores my soul. He
Speaker 1: leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yeah,
Speaker 1: though I walked through the valley of the shadow of death,
Speaker 1: I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
Speaker 1: I Rod and the staff, they comfort me, that prepare
Speaker 1: state table before me, the president us of mine enemies.
Speaker 1: And this is totally channeling Shatner. Uh. That annoys just
Speaker 1: my head with oil. My cup runneth over uh shore.
Speaker 1: The goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days
Speaker 1: of my life, and I will doll in the house
Speaker 1: of the Lord forever. Okay, and Shatner Uh. The one
Speaker 1: thing about everybody talks about Psalm twenty three, which may
Speaker 1: or may not mean anything. If you're looking at any
Speaker 1: standard Bible, there's a number of psalms on each Yeah,
Speaker 1: So if she could have been reading Salm twenty two,
Speaker 1: I mean, which you know immediately precedes it. Sal twenty
Speaker 1: two is a little bit darker. But you know, actually,
Speaker 1: if you got Joe has a Bible in the studio,
Speaker 1: it's a smaller Bible than the ones that I haven't.
Speaker 1: Well that's not true. I have a couple at my house.
Speaker 1: But you know there's the study Bibles, which are usually
Speaker 1: those like really big ones, and often they just have
Speaker 1: like one or two psalms on a page. And actually
Speaker 1: the copy that I have just has one full psalm
Speaker 1: on a page. Um and sometimes you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of lines from the previous one make it onto the page.
Speaker 1: But I think it's possible. It just depends. There's so
Speaker 1: many different Bibles, you don't know, there's so many different
Speaker 1: but it is possible to get a copy of the
Speaker 1: Bible where it's basically just one full text of one
Speaker 1: full psalm on a page and then you know a
Speaker 1: couple before and after of others. Yeah, on this on
Speaker 1: this one, essentially they all run, you know, page, they'll
Speaker 1: run back to back, so that the tenor of the
Speaker 1: song twenty two is a little different. Starts out like this,
Speaker 1: my God, my God, why hast forsaken me? Why arn't
Speaker 1: thou so far from helping me? From the words of
Speaker 1: Mike groaning, Oh my god, I cry by day but
Speaker 1: that dost not answer? And by night but find no rest,
Speaker 1: not that, and on and not from there, A little darker,
Speaker 1: much darker. Yeah, but some who knows, not that it
Speaker 1: means much of anything, but it is a little bit
Speaker 1: more despairing than Psalm twenty three, where she was maybe
Speaker 1: at I don't know. It's hard to tell. Everything seems
Speaker 1: really meticulous with her. It seems very prepared, almost like
Speaker 1: the KGB and like laid the whole table out a
Speaker 1: little bit, and we talk about that, and there's actually
Speaker 1: let's talk about the things she had in the room
Speaker 1: and kind of the overall everything, and then you know,
Speaker 1: when we get into theories, I guess we can talk
Speaker 1: a little more about how we feel about her. You know.
Speaker 1: The problem with this case, and I'm sure I know
Speaker 1: that Steve and I talked a little bit about this,
Speaker 1: and I know he'll talk probably a little bit more
Speaker 1: about this later, is that this case has like there's
Speaker 1: almost no information. I think, you know, I bulked out
Speaker 1: a page on this of like actual known facts on
Speaker 1: this case, and that's with a heat with an entire
Speaker 1: psalm in it up. Yeah, I'm just like totally like
Speaker 1: sound half that day. I do. Yeah. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of talk about this, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people have seemed to infer a lot of things,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff stuff sculus. There's like a forty
Speaker 1: four page long web sleuth thread dedicated to this case
Speaker 1: and sist, yeah, I know it is. That's why you
Speaker 1: don't do these guys. Okay. So she did have a
Speaker 1: number of miscellaneous items with her in the hotel room.
Speaker 1: She had, um the lord jumpsuits plural, but I don't
Speaker 1: know how many. I think maybe two would be my guest,
Speaker 1: but I don't actually know they actually I think they.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the track suits not jumpsuits, sorry,
Speaker 1: track suits is the word that I meant. The tops
Speaker 1: in the bottoms of the zippa putty um and either
Speaker 1: depending on the account that you read, even they were
Speaker 1: packed neatly in her luggage or hung neatly in the closet.
Speaker 1: But it's always like neatly and orderly. She had a
Speaker 1: pair of shoes. She had a pair of size ten slippers,
Speaker 1: which is what she was. She had a nice pair
Speaker 1: of black leather gloves, which I understand were maybe from Nordstrum's,
Speaker 1: but I don't know where people may have picked that
Speaker 1: up from. I think it was a brand. Um. She
Speaker 1: had a nice leather purse. She had some I stay
Speaker 1: Lauder cosmetics, toothpaste, perfume, meta mucil, packs of dry crystal
Speaker 1: lite pantyhose, and iron and a kitchen bowl. Not totally
Speaker 1: clear on the bowl or I guess I would. I
Speaker 1: guess add the iron in there too. But everything else
Speaker 1: seems totally normal for a trip. Actually, you know, it
Speaker 1: sounds to me like if you're a regular hotel goer. Um,
Speaker 1: most hotels have a fridge and things like that, and
Speaker 1: they usually have like little plastic disposable captain glasses. They
Speaker 1: usually don't have bowls. So so if you like to
Speaker 1: save money and just eat a little cereal for breakfast
Speaker 1: in your room, for example, having a bowl is a
Speaker 1: handy thing. It's the iron is the same thing. You
Speaker 1: can get an iron from the front desk. Typically, all
Speaker 1: I've ever stayed in has a has a. I've been
Speaker 1: in many hotel rooms where you have to go to
Speaker 1: the front desk to get the iron. Really, yes, you
Speaker 1: must be staying in a crappy hotel. Hotel, I mean
Speaker 1: there in the room. Yeah, this is a nice ho tell.
Speaker 1: So they would have had an iron. I wouldn't make
Speaker 1: that presumption. But the point is, I'm following what Joe saying,
Speaker 1: is that if you're if you're traveling frequently, that's something
Speaker 1: you would have just in case you don't have to
Speaker 1: try and find somebody at the office at five am
Speaker 1: when you need to iron something. I guess I'll just
Speaker 1: point out, however, that um leggings, uh T shirt and
Speaker 1: blower jumpsuits are not exactly do not support the need
Speaker 1: to iron. Yeah, I will agree. Yeah, maybe it was
Speaker 1: an interrogation device. Maybe yeah. And I'll just mention that
Speaker 1: the lead investor on this case, I've read a couple
Speaker 1: of interviews with him, and he has said over the
Speaker 1: years that there was a newspaper that was open that
Speaker 1: had a couple of maple leaves on it, and said
Speaker 1: that he and the other investigators at the time just
Speaker 1: saw it, and I think they just assumed that they
Speaker 1: would find out. I mean, you know, by all accounts,
Speaker 1: this should have been an open and shut case. They
Speaker 1: had her name, they had her address, they had her
Speaker 1: phone number, they should have been able to figure out
Speaker 1: who she was. Um. And so they didn't really pay
Speaker 1: attention to these things. UM and he thinks there may
Speaker 1: have been some significance in that, or that she left
Speaker 1: a clue or something like that in that that arrangement,
Speaker 1: but that they never actually paid much attention to it.
Speaker 1: So I will mention that, and that is that maybe
Speaker 1: the clue that's lost to the ages. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, I don't necessarily think so, you know, it
Speaker 1: could be as simple as it's October in Seattle, or
Speaker 1: and and she saw some good looking leaves, or it
Speaker 1: could mean she was a Canadian secret agent or something
Speaker 1: else or just Canadian. Yeah, or it could be nothing.
Speaker 1: Yet she paid, as I mentioned, in cash for both
Speaker 1: nights ended up being about three and fifty dollars. It
Speaker 1: was a hundred and seventy five dollars a night cash,
Speaker 1: which is not significantly less than it is out. But
Speaker 1: it's like five hundred and fifty dollars in cash, and
Speaker 1: that's not that's nothing. That's not nothing. And she didn't
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of money with her. I think
Speaker 1: she maybe had like thirty four dollars in her wallet,
Speaker 1: but no idea or anything like that. Um. She reportedly
Speaker 1: when she checked in, she didn't speak with an accent
Speaker 1: or anything like that. The police, you know, when they
Speaker 1: were called and they were searching the room, they did
Speaker 1: find uh empty glass on the nightstand next to her
Speaker 1: that was found to have traces of cyanide in it um,
Speaker 1: which is the way that that was her cause of
Speaker 1: death is she killed herself by cyanide poisoning. And that's it.
Speaker 1: That's literally everything we know about Mary Anderson. Much has
Speaker 1: been written about her, but nobody knows what the hell.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows anything. Yeah, they did. I think they did
Speaker 1: check out like East Coast, just to see if she
Speaker 1: was from New York, which is where the address was.
Speaker 1: But the address was non existent, and actually it does,
Speaker 1: it's not non existent, exists, but it just it's just
Speaker 1: the street address exists in New York. But she gave
Speaker 1: the wrong ZIP code to go with it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: she just wrote new York, New York, which a lot
Speaker 1: of people from New York have mentioned. You don't say
Speaker 1: New York New York, you say like Queens New York. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're from one of those places and
Speaker 1: then the area code of the of the phone number
Speaker 1: that she gave was also totally the wrong area code
Speaker 1: for that area, but apparently it was a fairly limited
Speaker 1: areas like New York number though it is, but I
Speaker 1: think it was like upstate New York or something. Um.
Speaker 1: I probably could have googled this and found out, but
Speaker 1: it's all just kind of it's all wrong. So I
Speaker 1: guess for me, I don't put a lot of stock
Speaker 1: and interest into oh, this address, she like thought a
Speaker 1: lot about it. I don't think she did. And then
Speaker 1: in terms of Mary and actually indicates something though it might, yeah,
Speaker 1: might it indicates to me she's not from New York.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would agree with that, Yeah, totally. I
Speaker 1: would also say that if she were from the East Coast,
Speaker 1: most people from the East Coast speak with an accent,
Speaker 1: and a hotel clerk in Seattle would have said, yeah,
Speaker 1: she spoke with a I don't think no accent doesn't
Speaker 1: pertain just to no heavy European or you know, English
Speaker 1: wasn't her first language accent. I think it equates to
Speaker 1: no no accent whatsoever. Yeah, But I mean there's also
Speaker 1: she could have had a very slight accent. I have
Speaker 1: a friend who's from New York, and I don't ever
Speaker 1: notice an accent until she takes a trip back to
Speaker 1: New York and she shows up at the office and
Speaker 1: suddenly she sounds like she's from like she's from New York.
Speaker 1: It comes and then it bleeds away slowly over time.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what accents do. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Did
Speaker 1: you want to talk about we gotta we gotta talk
Speaker 1: about the New York stuff at any time? Or should
Speaker 1: we talk about it now? We talk about it now? Well,
Speaker 1: you got the thing about New York is that's great
Speaker 1: if you're on the West coast. Is it's like clear
Speaker 1: across the continent. It's a really huge city. So if
Speaker 1: you run into somebody it was from New York, you
Speaker 1: need to say, oh great. But everybody's from New York,
Speaker 1: so not surprising. We don't know each other obviously. And
Speaker 1: but what is kind of clever? I don't know if
Speaker 1: she was clever at that's just purely accidental. The address
Speaker 1: was like one thirty two weeks Third Street and there there.
Speaker 1: That address is in two places. It's in Lower Manhattan
Speaker 1: and it's in Brooklyn. And so she was that clever
Speaker 1: in picking her alias in her legend. Then that's really awesome.
Speaker 1: She can stay from me a third Street and they say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I used to live right around the corner.
Speaker 1: And then she said, oh, well, I lived on the
Speaker 1: one in Brooklyn, or vice versa. I mean, maybe she
Speaker 1: did that, she was that clever. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: I don't think she, to be honest, I don't think
Speaker 1: she put that much thought into I mean, right, what
Speaker 1: it's it's one second. I mean like it's just like
Speaker 1: one to three Northwest Third Avenue. I mean, like if
Speaker 1: there's not a that's not a made up address, I
Speaker 1: really don't. I don't know what it is, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but think, well, the other thing about New York is
Speaker 1: that um and you can't appreciate it this if you're
Speaker 1: not from the Northeast, you can't really appreciate this. But
Speaker 1: everybody in the rest of American knows all about New York,
Speaker 1: and so it's a natural pick if you're from If
Speaker 1: you're not from the Northeast and you're looking for just
Speaker 1: a fake city to throw out there, this big well
Speaker 1: in New York, it obviously comes to mind for everybody
Speaker 1: in America. Yeah, yeah, pretty much that New York of course. Yeah, obviously,
Speaker 1: that's why I think she's probably from the West. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think New York is a I mean, yeah, totally
Speaker 1: it is. Um and then, uh. The other thing that
Speaker 1: people have mentioned, which is actually probably true, is that
Speaker 1: at the time, there are two major soap operas that
Speaker 1: were on Both of them had leading characters who were
Speaker 1: named Mary Anderson. On them, there were um and So
Speaker 1: I think Days of Our Lives and that other one,
Speaker 1: which is the one that has the it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: too popular. I was looking at you like you're you're
Speaker 1: asking me, I know my children? Yeah, been, um so,
Speaker 1: there were there were some major characters that were, you know,
Speaker 1: popular at the time that were named Mary Anderson. Not
Speaker 1: that Mary Anderson is like a hard name to pull
Speaker 1: out of a hat anyway. But on top of that,
Speaker 1: there's really after the whole Luke and Laura thing. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's time for Steve to making references that Devon doesn't
Speaker 1: get perfect. I'm trying to remember Luke and Laura. I
Speaker 1: don't remember that either, but you can google it. I
Speaker 1: remember Jack and Jennifer from Days of Our Lives. I
Speaker 1: got kind of tedious after a while. I have never
Speaker 1: ever watched soap opera, though I don't know what either
Speaker 1: of you are talking about. So here's a couple of
Speaker 1: we'll do the bullet point things and then we'll get
Speaker 1: into theories that work for you guys. Okay, So, people
Speaker 1: a lot of times mentioned that she looked like she
Speaker 1: was European, which is accurate. I would. She's a very
Speaker 1: distinct kind of like Greek look to her. What you're
Speaker 1: looking at me like, I'm insane? I mean, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't pick up that. That's all. She looks European
Speaker 1: to me. But again, she didn't speak with an accent,
Speaker 1: so I think she was American or maybe Canadian, but
Speaker 1: maybe the accent or something the middle of European. Is
Speaker 1: that what you're thinking? I'm sorry? Was it maybe the hairstyle?
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is about her. She just
Speaker 1: has that kind of look about her. But but I mean,
Speaker 1: people look like I look Italian and I'm not actually
Speaker 1: from Italy. It's just my heritage. So it's not unheard
Speaker 1: of too. We should make a quick note here for
Speaker 1: everybody is as far as I'm aware, all we have
Speaker 1: is drawings of her face. You know, I've seen references
Speaker 1: to Morgue photos, but I have not been able to
Speaker 1: I didn't see it either. Yeah, they were. They were
Speaker 1: all either photoshops or pencil sketches by you know, the police,
Speaker 1: artists or somebody, and you know, an attempt to identify her.
Speaker 1: But I haven't ever seen an actual verifiable photograph of
Speaker 1: this woman. So yeah, might bring a little bit on
Speaker 1: soft information. It might have been that her her work
Speaker 1: photo was kind of gruesome. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: what dying from sinide is like, but I imagine it
Speaker 1: could be nasty, you know. Actually that's the thing is
Speaker 1: um When the hotel staff initially came in, they literally
Speaker 1: thought she was just taking an app They thought she
Speaker 1: was just a really heavy sleeper. They thought she was
Speaker 1: just asleep, and then they tried to wake her up,
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, oh, I thought she was
Speaker 1: just asleep. And then she did normally slept with this
Speaker 1: horror hideous grimace on her face. No, I think she
Speaker 1: I think she literally just felt. I think that's maybe
Speaker 1: how sanide does it. Is you just you fall asleep
Speaker 1: and you never wake up. I don't know, but that's
Speaker 1: what it looks like apparently, is she was just asleep
Speaker 1: peacefully asleep. All I know about sinides what have learned
Speaker 1: in movies, and I don't trust that. Yeah, that's probably
Speaker 1: h Yeah, so she had those scars on her breasts,
Speaker 1: and uh, I've read a lot of stuff that people
Speaker 1: online have said where they're like, well, obviously it was
Speaker 1: a boob job. No, there was nothing in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was no implant, There were no implants or anything.
Speaker 1: It could have been a lift. It could have been
Speaker 1: a reduction. A lift is kind of well, I mean
Speaker 1: all of them are kind of boobed. I mean, you
Speaker 1: get your accept your deviated septum in your nose fixed,
Speaker 1: and it's still a nose job, right, even though like
Speaker 1: you're it's just so you can breathe. I mean, any So,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it was a boob job technically, but
Speaker 1: she it wasn't an augmentation. I've heard a lot of
Speaker 1: people say that they thought that it was a reduction,
Speaker 1: and that's certainly possible. Although the couple of people that
Speaker 1: I know who have gotten reductions, and this I mean
Speaker 1: no offense by this at all. The people who I
Speaker 1: know who have had reductions have had to have been
Speaker 1: on um like really strict weight loss regimes. For whatever reason.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but they've had to be maintain
Speaker 1: their weight within a certain amount of weight. Typically it's
Speaker 1: because reductions are done because it's a strain on the
Speaker 1: lower back based on the side of the breast higher back,
Speaker 1: but well it's on the it's a backstraight and so
Speaker 1: if you're able to reduce your weight, there is the
Speaker 1: potential that the rest will not be as large. Therefore
Speaker 1: were reduced the strain. But I will say is that
Speaker 1: when I read the description of the scarring, it matches
Speaker 1: up with this what I have. I have friends who
Speaker 1: have had had reductions, and it matches the style, especially
Speaker 1: from kind of that day and age, and then in
Speaker 1: the nineties. I don't know if they well, I don't
Speaker 1: know if they leave the same kind of scarring today
Speaker 1: because have advanced. I don't think they do. I don't
Speaker 1: they do pinholes right, and I think they do something
Speaker 1: that's much less invasive. My point is is that scarring
Speaker 1: match up with what I am aware of is the
Speaker 1: aftermath of a reduction in that era. I would agree
Speaker 1: with that might have reduced your way and then just
Speaker 1: like started like towards the end of your life. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I saw, I threw you, Jenny Gregg.
Speaker 1: I mean the other thing that I saw that I
Speaker 1: thought was a really interesting suggestion was that um that
Speaker 1: maybe she had breast cancer and that there were some
Speaker 1: lump removal things. I think that the Emmy would have known,
Speaker 1: like would have been other signs in her body. That
Speaker 1: doesn't that doesn't add up. I don't, I agree, but
Speaker 1: I thought it was an interesting theory. It is interesting.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't think they do both sides. I've
Speaker 1: never heard of them trying to balance him out, like
Speaker 1: you know, like like cutting up in one taking out
Speaker 1: a certain amount of material. Well, I mean if if
Speaker 1: she had tumors in both, I mean that's certainly possible.
Speaker 1: I mean a double most sect to me is a thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they weren't trying to balance her, Joel, they were just
Speaker 1: taking stuff out of both of them. Yeah, the whole
Speaker 1: thing is screwy. Yeah. And then one of the other
Speaker 1: things is she did have that copper I U D
Speaker 1: and so UM the serial number was partially off, which
Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me at all, having had I U D
Speaker 1: s like they're in you for ten years. Um, stuff
Speaker 1: just degrades while it's in your body. That just happens,
Speaker 1: so they were unable to track it that way, which
Speaker 1: again isn't surprising at all. But also, you know, a
Speaker 1: copper i U D it's good for ten years, so
Speaker 1: situations change. But your doctor usually isn't going to give
Speaker 1: you a copper i U D unless you have a
Speaker 1: stable partner and you're still in your child bearing years,
Speaker 1: which she was if she was thirty three to five,
Speaker 1: which is why I think. Also they did a cross
Speaker 1: section of her rib to find her age, which I
Speaker 1: think is probably fairly accurate, but I she does look
Speaker 1: much older than that, so I think people get a
Speaker 1: lot really caught up in that. But I I think
Speaker 1: that the fact that she had an i U D
Speaker 1: does speak more towards she was the age that the
Speaker 1: Emmy said she was. The One of the things about
Speaker 1: it is that her hairstyle definitely makes her look older, yeah,
Speaker 1: And her makeup yeah makes her look older, but that
Speaker 1: hair really definitely yeah. I mean, I think those and
Speaker 1: she's running around in Juicy Cotur. Well, I don't think
Speaker 1: it was Juicy Cotur. I mean I think they would
Speaker 1: have mentioned maybe if it was Juicy Tour. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe they wouldn't have if I. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I think you know that's that's the age, particularly when
Speaker 1: some women are used to wearing makeup the way that
Speaker 1: they did in their twenties and it just ends up
Speaker 1: aging them more than making them look younger, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're like late thirties, early forties if you haven't
Speaker 1: evolved your makeup process and your hairstyle. And I am
Speaker 1: yep ye. So you know. The funny thing that I
Speaker 1: find about this and there's several points in this story
Speaker 1: where this could pop up, but people make very large
Speaker 1: presumptions his story. And one of the things that sparks
Speaker 1: that is the fact that she has the U D.
Speaker 1: It's going to call it you I D, which isn't
Speaker 1: a thing. Well it is, but it's an unidentified I'll
Speaker 1: tell you, okay, but no. The point is is that,
Speaker 1: as you said, they're good for ten to twelve years.
Speaker 1: It's old technology ten years. Take it out at the
Speaker 1: ten year mark. It's not as if the thing starts
Speaker 1: ticking inside of you and an alarm goes off. That says,
Speaker 1: a board, a board, a board that you know, like
Speaker 1: people can keep them. It has happened. Well, I suppose
Speaker 1: that's true. But but you know, I mean, who knows.
Speaker 1: But you know, the important thing is is why did
Speaker 1: Why the hell didn't they look at the serial numbers?
Speaker 1: Anyway I would have taken a little bit of work.
Speaker 1: But you know, they didn't have a full serial number
Speaker 1: they looked up they had half them. That's you know
Speaker 1: that they still should they still should have been able
Speaker 1: to find something. No, not at all, Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: It's like, so it's a part I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: a part number. It's like a batch number. Say it's
Speaker 1: an eight digit number, and you only have four of
Speaker 1: the digits, Well, that just cuts the stock that they
Speaker 1: have sold in the least ten years and half. That's
Speaker 1: still a giant pie. Well but but the point that
Speaker 1: I was getting out about that is that people say, well,
Speaker 1: she had to be a lady of means to have
Speaker 1: had that or two have afforded that. I her the
Speaker 1: scars on her breasts and the belief that it is
Speaker 1: a reduction that she had to have some means and
Speaker 1: good insurance. They say that about the I U D.
Speaker 1: But my point is the iu D has been around forever.
Speaker 1: It is cheap technology, and it is readily available everywhere,
Speaker 1: so just it. I find it funny that that is
Speaker 1: one of those things that people leap frog from. She
Speaker 1: had an I U D too, she must have been
Speaker 1: at least someone's not. It's not cheap technology, first of all,
Speaker 1: especially if you're paying for it out of pocket to
Speaker 1: actually get one. It's not. It's not cheap, but there
Speaker 1: are clinics that do it for free if you need it,
Speaker 1: so it can be cheap. That's that. And then and
Speaker 1: then I think to your point, I think I see
Speaker 1: people if they say it was a lift, they say
Speaker 1: it was she's a woman of means who cared about
Speaker 1: her appearance, and he did make up blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But a reduction, like your insurance will cover that if
Speaker 1: if you mean, because it's right, I don't think your insurance.
Speaker 1: I don't think your insurance pays for a lift, But
Speaker 1: I think your insurance will pay for a reduction. So again,
Speaker 1: you don't you Yeah, you probably have to be insured,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to be of great means. No,
Speaker 1: it's not that fantastically expensive. But the thing about it
Speaker 1: is is you're not going to pay ten grand to
Speaker 1: get a hangnail fixed. But when it comes to the boobs.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people place huge importance on
Speaker 1: the boobs. Well that's been good coin on it. But
Speaker 1: you have to have But that's the point is you
Speaker 1: have to have that extra ten grand laying around. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: but when you say someone of means, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I mean ten grand is a lot of money to me.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but I mean some of the somebody means,
Speaker 1: I mean that's I'm thinking, like somebody's upper middle class.
Speaker 1: I'm just got you know, kind of yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what means. But but I mean there are people
Speaker 1: who are far below the upper middle class who get
Speaker 1: this kind of worked out. Well okay, but there's always outliers.
Speaker 1: And I mean I've been to I've been to Argentina
Speaker 1: where everybody gets it. Every woman gets it, and you
Speaker 1: know there's lots of people who really can't afford it
Speaker 1: and they do it anyway. And so yeah, people will
Speaker 1: get it. You don't have to be a means. So, Um,
Speaker 1: what I'm learning from this is that we need to
Speaker 1: start a Kickstarter for Joe's boob job. Yeah you So
Speaker 1: the other point about this I U D thing is, um,
Speaker 1: the Emmy also was able to conclude from her autopsy
Speaker 1: that Mary had never had children, so that is also
Speaker 1: an important fact. Um. Okay, so I heard I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if this is true or not. Actually I've heard
Speaker 1: both ways. But I've heard that she mixed the metal
Speaker 1: mucil with her cyanide. Well that's good, I mean, she's
Speaker 1: going to have, you know, regular poops. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: also heard that she had mixed crystal light with her
Speaker 1: metal mucil, and that she had mixed just the crystal
Speaker 1: light with the cyanide or maybe all three. There was
Speaker 1: something to cut the flavor essentially, but we don't know
Speaker 1: us sure. Yeah, I can imagine that metamusel would make
Speaker 1: sanide go down much easier. And I have heard that
Speaker 1: crystal light makes meta musel go down even easier. So
Speaker 1: I wonder I wonder she was older it memusel and
Speaker 1: crystal do kind of associate with like kind of older people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you have to remember this is ninety six crystal
Speaker 1: Like everybody drink crystal light, you know, like we're talking
Speaker 1: like right now. Yeah, that's like old people behavior because
Speaker 1: it's the behavior of people when they were in there,
Speaker 1: like late thirties, early forties, and you know, twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: so old people looking at you, Joe, I mean that
Speaker 1: So for me, that's again you know it is yeah
Speaker 1: right now I'm like, that's an old person behavior. But
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember back to the midnight panties and
Speaker 1: think like, oh no that was MEO is still around
Speaker 1: using MEO in my water? Was ever really the in thing?
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, crystal light the crystal light part
Speaker 1: of it. But hey, Meta Musel, sometimes you just gotta you,
Speaker 1: you know, especially if you're traveling, you kind of want to.
Speaker 1: She could have had intessal issues. She could have like ibs.
Speaker 1: Some people who have ibs they back up very easy,
Speaker 1: and so it's kind of a general regiment. You're always
Speaker 1: taking something that's going to keep the floor. But I
Speaker 1: will tell you seriously, you know, when I travel, you
Speaker 1: get so dehydrt on airplanes that like sometimes you just
Speaker 1: once you're there, you gotta like take a little some
Speaker 1: to please tell me when we go to crime Con,
Speaker 1: I'm going to see that in your carry on pointed
Speaker 1: out you will not know, I think, just kidding. Um okay.
Speaker 1: So also cyanide, how did she get the cyanide? Good question,
Speaker 1: jewelers can get cyanide. They use it. That's how his
Speaker 1: name got it, you know that's his name. Who famous
Speaker 1: guy who poisoned people with cyanide. Well, they're not the
Speaker 1: only ones that have access to cyanide. They're not the
Speaker 1: only ones. It's just like a pretty easy jump. Apparently
Speaker 1: nail text sometimes have access to cyanide. Miners have access
Speaker 1: to cyanide, though I don't think she was a miner.
Speaker 1: Process uses cyanide. You can also make it. I heard
Speaker 1: you can make it from like apricot seeds, so that
Speaker 1: takes a long time. I would say she probably bought it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be much easier to just go acquired through
Speaker 1: an industrial means. I think it actually at one point
Speaker 1: though it was Amazon around in Google wasn't even around there.
Speaker 1: You could up until I think around two thousand or
Speaker 1: two thousand five, there were some ways to buy it
Speaker 1: on the internet. Okay, let's be fair. There are still
Speaker 1: ways to buy it on the internet. You through Amazon
Speaker 1: one point until Amazon cotton dawn and stopped the whole
Speaker 1: thing and it got much more, much more rigorous. Um.
Speaker 1: She also had a prescription pill bottle that the label
Speaker 1: had been torn off of so there was no name there,
Speaker 1: but she did have a prescription. I figured that I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know it was in there. They
Speaker 1: just talked about it, but maybe it was the cyanide.
Speaker 1: And also the other thing is that we uh don't
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anywhere what kind of form the cyanide
Speaker 1: was in, because I think that would have given us
Speaker 1: some more clues into liquid yeah, or potassium cyanide or
Speaker 1: you know, like stuff like that. And then last, but
Speaker 1: not least, is that people have suggested that she returned
Speaker 1: to this specific hotel in this specific room because it
Speaker 1: had sentimental value to her. But she didn't make a
Speaker 1: reservation or anything. She's walked off the street. People said
Speaker 1: the room might have had significant she didn't request the room.
Speaker 1: Did She didn't request the room, She didn't make a reservation.
Speaker 1: She just walked in off the street and got a room.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that's That's not one of those
Speaker 1: things that people make up people. Yeah, a lot a
Speaker 1: lot of people on the on the inner webs, etcetera,
Speaker 1: like to turn these into big set and soap opera stories. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, this is again another example of
Speaker 1: people just reaching for anything and then that being parodied
Speaker 1: and becoming part of the real story quote unquote real story.
Speaker 1: So you guys want to talk about theories about whom
Speaker 1: Mary Anderson might be really quickly. So let's take a
Speaker 1: break first. Oh yeah, I want a sandwich. Yeah, Henry
Speaker 1: doesn't like his neighbors. It wouldn't be going too far
Speaker 1: to say that his neighbors hate him as well. And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he hates his neighbors. So Henry is not a very
Speaker 1: happy guy. He says, they're always making way too much noise,
Speaker 1: and he just knows one of these days they're gonna
Speaker 1: come into his den and take it all away from him.
Speaker 1: This not so little Taxi day at Texas sits out
Speaker 1: at his house for hours on end, just in case
Speaker 1: someone tries to come along and take it from him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Henry has a bad attitude and it shows. Sitting there
Speaker 1: all day long really doesn't help. Protecting your home should
Speaker 1: be a heck of a lot easier, right, and you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to sit out there all day long. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you want to have more of a life than
Speaker 1: Henry the Badger? Yeah? I thought so. Well, we'd simply safe.
Speaker 1: Your home is safe and That's why simply Safe is
Speaker 1: making it simpler than ever to protect it. Would simply say,
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Speaker 1: see everything that's going on at your home while you're
Speaker 1: out at about not sitting at home like Henry. Order
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Speaker 1: and get an exclusive tem percent discount when you go
Speaker 1: to simply safe dot com slash criminal and order your
Speaker 1: simply safe system. That's right, simply safe dot com slash criminal.
Speaker 1: Protecting your home means you no longer have to badger anyone. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back that ham sandwhich was awesome? Yeah was it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't either, So first up, just because
Speaker 1: I didn't bring it up to share. So you've got
Speaker 1: a few people that I have a couple of people
Speaker 1: that have been that have been suggested as potential suspects
Speaker 1: suggested by who the internet? Um, but we yeah him, Um,
Speaker 1: but we're going to breeze right through these because there's
Speaker 1: lots of problems with every single one of them. Um.
Speaker 1: So the first one is Sandra and Suley. She went
Speaker 1: missing in May from New York. She was last seen
Speaker 1: at a shopping plaza and then she was reported missing
Speaker 1: a week later after she was seen. She had a
Speaker 1: black poodle like that, you know that was remember that
Speaker 1: was popular in the nineties in the early two thousand's
Speaker 1: to have little dogs. I guess it's still kind of
Speaker 1: little dogs. She's a black poodle that went missing with
Speaker 1: her um and I. As far as I know, they
Speaker 1: didn't ever find anything. They found a couple of people
Speaker 1: using her credit cards a little later, but uh, nobody
Speaker 1: really knows anything about her. Apparently she probably left with
Speaker 1: somebody she knew or of her own volition, and she
Speaker 1: was reported missing after she missed a couple of doctor's appointments.
Speaker 1: That's kind of went through the red flag. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: she just lived alone in her apartment. She didn't have
Speaker 1: a significant other or anything like that. Yeah, murdered. Well,
Speaker 1: so she was only five five, so she was a
Speaker 1: little short. She had dark brown hair, not reddish brown hair,
Speaker 1: and it didn't die. Die is a thing, but but
Speaker 1: you can tell when people die there, like in an autopsy,
Speaker 1: you can tell if that hair's died or not. She
Speaker 1: had a birthmark on her abdomen and a scar on
Speaker 1: her upper lip are our Mary Anderson had no birthmarks
Speaker 1: or scars, and then um, Sandra was like seven months
Speaker 1: pregnant when she disappeared, and our Mary had never had
Speaker 1: a kid, had a little kid. She did not know.
Speaker 1: So I mean, the way that this goes, people are
Speaker 1: willfully ignoring that she's too short and had no scars
Speaker 1: and didn't ever have a kid, and saying, oh, Mary
Speaker 1: is Sandra, and she had to give the kid up
Speaker 1: for adoption, and then she was sad and every and alone,
Speaker 1: every Yeah, I think it could have been one of
Speaker 1: the rhymes sisters. They picked their own desks and yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that wasn't well, you know, and people are going
Speaker 1: to say, okay, so we have to talk about this
Speaker 1: at least briefly. People are saying, well, she never had
Speaker 1: a child, she was seven months pregnant. She may have
Speaker 1: never actually given birth to a live child. But if
Speaker 1: there had been some kind of sea section or something
Speaker 1: like that, we should have known about a scar. And
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know enough, but I would imagine
Speaker 1: that even if it hadn't been a live birth, there
Speaker 1: would have been the same evidence in you know, in
Speaker 1: the is it. What's the it's your hips hips, thank you,
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure that your hips at like and
Speaker 1: this is different, like by seven months, her whole body
Speaker 1: should have already gone through. Yes, okay, so that one's dumb. Okay,
Speaker 1: that doesn't work. She had a baby and much too short.
Speaker 1: Next up is Elizabeth Mary Allen. She's got marrying her name,
Speaker 1: so maybe the last name star. She went missing from
Speaker 1: Oak Harbor, Washington in UM three. She was five and
Speaker 1: a d fifty pounds. She had blue eyes. Mary Anderson
Speaker 1: had brown eyes. She had a scar on her left elbow.
Speaker 1: Mary Anderson had no scars. I don't know why people
Speaker 1: think that it was her, except for that her picture
Speaker 1: kind of does resemble an age progressed potentially what Mary
Speaker 1: Anderson looked like. Carb Washington is not too far from Seattle.
Speaker 1: It's not but it's I mean, it's not her. It's
Speaker 1: not her. Kind of doubt it. It's not her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's serious issues there, unless like somehow they figured out
Speaker 1: how to change eye color and make her tallerant without scarring.
Speaker 1: They think, yes, you right, just not her. This isn't Gattica, Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly right. And he used contacts in that anyway, So
Speaker 1: and a lot of other really good tricks. Yeah, lots
Speaker 1: of them. Okay. So next is Mary Karin Amos again,
Speaker 1: another Mary with an aim. So she went missing in
Speaker 1: UH seven in from her home in San Bernardino, California.
Speaker 1: And she was fifty four years old when she disappeared.
Speaker 1: So no, Also she had green eyes. Also, she had
Speaker 1: a vertical scar on her abdomen um, so she's way
Speaker 1: too old. She did have, she did have, she did
Speaker 1: have the upper dental plate. She's also five seven, so
Speaker 1: about the same height, but way too old. Not necessarily,
Speaker 1: she would have been like sixty three, Amery could have
Speaker 1: been sixties, Marie, and could have been sixties. Why would
Speaker 1: she have an I E D. Maybe she got to
Speaker 1: put in way back? Why don't she just forgot? I
Speaker 1: think they would have noticed if it was like really old,
Speaker 1: because it's copper, so it's degrading in your body. And
Speaker 1: I think if it had been like a twenty year
Speaker 1: old I U D. They would have known. It was
Speaker 1: also the brand. It was actually the brand Paraguard that
Speaker 1: came out in the like early nineties, because you know,
Speaker 1: the ones in the eighties were like kind of dangerous
Speaker 1: and like ruined some women's systems, and so they pulled
Speaker 1: them from the market. And then in the nineties they
Speaker 1: released the Paraguards. Were those the copper ones, were those
Speaker 1: the ones that had the hormone. They were the copper ones,
Speaker 1: and they were the ones that were called the copper Cross,
Speaker 1: that's what they called them. And then they rereleased this
Speaker 1: one called paragraph. It doesn't really matter, but I think
Speaker 1: they would have noticed if it was a much older
Speaker 1: I think so too. Although the one sad thing about
Speaker 1: poor Mary Amos is there was a twelve year delay
Speaker 1: in her being reported. How does that happen? That happens
Speaker 1: a lot. Actually, yeah, I think it probably has some
Speaker 1: willful stuff going on in there. That's a case for
Speaker 1: a different story. Yeah, all right, next week, okay, next
Speaker 1: week covers. Yeah, and it's going to be married months. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I should have held off on my Mary. You should
Speaker 1: have yeah, um, okay, so we're done with the named. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So some ideas of who she could have been is
Speaker 1: like the wife of a jeweler. And I saw I
Speaker 1: saw this one story that somebody had created on web
Speaker 1: slues and it was just like, oh my god, how
Speaker 1: did you get there? It was crazy Yeah. This person
Speaker 1: said that she was obviously the ex wife of a
Speaker 1: wealthy jeweler who was well kept, was used to caring
Speaker 1: about herself. Um, but I mean she was like she
Speaker 1: was on the bigger side, and her hairstyle certainly didn't
Speaker 1: make me think that she cared a whole lot about
Speaker 1: the way that she looked at Remember twenty years ago too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but were a little different. Have you seen hairstyles from
Speaker 1: the nies, by the way. Yeah, But so the theory
Speaker 1: was that, you know, she she was a kept wife
Speaker 1: and she was used to this life of luxury, and
Speaker 1: she had gotten a breast lift. There we go, thank you,
Speaker 1: that's her figured the handlett to signify the word list.
Speaker 1: She'd gotten a lift, and um, she you know, was
Speaker 1: she was well kept. And then she had found out
Speaker 1: that her jeweler husband was actually having an affair, so
Speaker 1: she decided she didn't want to live anymore, so she
Speaker 1: stole some cyanide from his jewelry shop and went and
Speaker 1: killed herself. I think this is right out of a
Speaker 1: Daniel Steel novel, but changed the ending. Yeah, it's crazy. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, life does imitate art. Yeah, but yeah, that
Speaker 1: sets again, that's a bit of a stretch. I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole wife of the jeweler things hilarious and why
Speaker 1: wy couldn't she have been a jeweler. Well, she could
Speaker 1: have been a jeweler, yeah, or again, a nail tech. Apparently,
Speaker 1: she could have been a pharmacist. She could have been Yeah,
Speaker 1: she could have been married to a pharmacist, or a photographer.
Speaker 1: She could not have been a photographer doing that kind
Speaker 1: of work based on the way her hands looked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but otherwise, well, but that's actually why people suggest and
Speaker 1: I actually think it's not the worst suggestion ever, is
Speaker 1: that she was a nail technician because her nails were
Speaker 1: very well kept and she seemed to really care about
Speaker 1: her appearance, though it wasn't like on a Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like the way that a working woman cares about
Speaker 1: her appearance. She her nails were done really really well,
Speaker 1: and then she would have had the access to the cyanide.
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure the one of the other questions,
Speaker 1: the whole cyanide nail tech thing, but I don't really know.
Speaker 1: I know somebody will email us and they'll they'll write
Speaker 1: a dissertation on it, So I'm not going to go
Speaker 1: just great, I the other thought, and I think this
Speaker 1: is probably true, is that I mean, I at least
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty solid theory. And the theory
Speaker 1: is that her husband had recently passed away and so
Speaker 1: they had no kids. She probably didn't have any you know, family,
Speaker 1: which is would be why nobody ever identified her. Or
Speaker 1: that's where it's not outlandish, and that she just decided,
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't really want to be here anymore.
Speaker 1: I the love of my life is gone. I don't
Speaker 1: have really anything keeping me going. And the picture that
Speaker 1: the people painted for this one was, you know, it
Speaker 1: kind of fit. When you look at her, you can
Speaker 1: hear like I understood this story totally. It was, you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of woman who sells the house and closes
Speaker 1: all the accounts and you know, leaves everything neat and
Speaker 1: orderly and then goes away to somewhere where nobody will
Speaker 1: know who she is, and you know, just very neatly
Speaker 1: and quietly takes her own life, and then you know,
Speaker 1: hopes that her body will be used in some science
Speaker 1: some way, although she should have probably explicitly said like
Speaker 1: I would like my organs to be donated, not do
Speaker 1: with my body what you will. And also I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure that if you kill yourself with cyanide, that probably
Speaker 1: ruins a lot of the stuff in your body. She
Speaker 1: probably could have gone to a body farm. And that
Speaker 1: was about it. Yeah. Yeah, med school, Yeah, no, couldn't
Speaker 1: go to med school. Things would have been messed up. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe she could have gone to med school for like dissection.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what they do ye
Speaker 1: section yeah. Um oh. And the other thing that I
Speaker 1: did see when they were talking about whatever her name
Speaker 1: was that um had the pet that was that went
Speaker 1: missing was that somebody suggested that maybe the kitchen bowl.
Speaker 1: Because nobody's seen any pictures of the kitchen bowl, somebody
Speaker 1: suggested that it was maybe a small yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 1: it was maybe a small bowl that like she carried
Speaker 1: with her because she had been used to traveling with
Speaker 1: a pet, like a small dog or something. Yeah. She
Speaker 1: could have also just mixed everything together in that bowl.
Speaker 1: She could have. This was so planned out to actually
Speaker 1: grind up to see a cyanide pillar or or the
Speaker 1: water in the crystal w Yeah, and then washed the
Speaker 1: bowl too, because she was that kind of person. Totally,
Speaker 1: people who just automatically do I am not one of them,
Speaker 1: but I live with one, and the world will end
Speaker 1: before they will not get that bowl washed right away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Another theory that people had, and
Speaker 1: I'm just throwing this out here. I'm not gonna expand
Speaker 1: on it at all, really, is that she was there
Speaker 1: to be a witness, a witness to what is that
Speaker 1: like in a criminal Yeah, and she didn't want to
Speaker 1: do that, or she had because she was afraid to testify,
Speaker 1: so she killed herself instead. Yeah, but it seems like
Speaker 1: they would notice if the witness didn't show up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that that would have put somebody would have
Speaker 1: put two and two together. Yeah. That was that a
Speaker 1: web special there. That sounds more like webs louse and
Speaker 1: read it. Yeah. And then the last theory was that
Speaker 1: maybe really do have ane think it's a little different. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then the last theory is that maybe um Mary
Speaker 1: Anderson was a spy. Of course, she had been as
Speaker 1: by her whole life, and then you know, her usefulness
Speaker 1: had had withered and she just decided was not long
Speaker 1: after the Soviet Union folded. Yeah. Did you get that
Speaker 1: from an email Joe sent you? Because it sounds it
Speaker 1: sounds a lot like they don't. Yeah, actually, it's not
Speaker 1: my theory at all, I think, I mean, the only
Speaker 1: reason I think people associate this with her being a
Speaker 1: spy because of the cyanide, and so it's really for
Speaker 1: that reason, really absurd. I think it's a cyanide and
Speaker 1: the unidentifiability of her. I mean, she's she has covered
Speaker 1: her tracks pretty dang. Well, man, how did he he
Speaker 1: died from cyanide? Didn't he you? Okay, but just this
Speaker 1: is but other people have I mean, there's some connections recently,
Speaker 1: there are some connections to other cases where other people
Speaker 1: have killed themselves under pseudonymes with cyanide. So I mean overall,
Speaker 1: we literally don't know. We literally don't know anything about
Speaker 1: this case. We don't know anything about Mary Anderson. We
Speaker 1: don't have any leads whatsoever. Um, so you've just wasted
Speaker 1: like an hour of our time. I have nothing about
Speaker 1: I feel like that's like literally every single episode of ours.
Speaker 1: Well you know, actually, you know it might be we're
Speaker 1: putting the word out there might be one of our
Speaker 1: listeners knows that Mary Anderson will crack the case, you know,
Speaker 1: so it might not have been a complete waste of
Speaker 1: your time. Yeah, okay, yeah, but on the spying thing,
Speaker 1: I think I do think though that say, if she
Speaker 1: had been some sort of a sleeper agent, she probably
Speaker 1: just would have gone back to the Soviet Union or
Speaker 1: Hungry or wherever she came from, probably family back. There
Speaker 1: no reason to kill yourself just because the Soviet Union
Speaker 1: went away. Um, and and to point out because I
Speaker 1: know somebody will say, well, maybe she was too sick
Speaker 1: to travel. She, according to her autopsy, was perfectly good health.
Speaker 1: She didn't think she was overweight. But yeah, but no cancer,
Speaker 1: no like massive obvious things going wrong, like she was fine. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she might have just realized that, well, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just kind of in middle age right now. It's only
Speaker 1: gonna be downhill from here. It's not gonna get any better.
Speaker 1: What the hell her own terms? Yeah, going out in
Speaker 1: the high note, I guess, But that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: There there are people in that situation. I mean there are,
Speaker 1: it's on my terms or not, and I prefer my terms.
Speaker 1: There are. I just would hope that at forty five
Speaker 1: that's not the case. But there you gom. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think we need to go any deeper in that
Speaker 1: because this whole subject there is a deep well of
Speaker 1: information about it and we don't need to rehash that. Okay,
Speaker 1: well that's unsatisfying. We're gonna put some links um and
Speaker 1: obviously her picture um up on our website and if
Speaker 1: you want to see those links or the picture, or
Speaker 1: listen to this episode because you haven't just listened to
Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah. Um. We also have an episode list
Speaker 1: so you can see every single episode that we've ever done,
Speaker 1: which can be helpful because we're starting to get some
Speaker 1: suggestions of things we've covered because we covered them like
Speaker 1: four years ago. Yeah. I update that about once a month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so um. That can be found on our website, which
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com dot com. You can
Speaker 1: download and listen to us you know where, I mean
Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere. If you're doing that on iTunes or
Speaker 1: you're doing it on Stitcher or someplace where you can
Speaker 1: subscribe and leave a comment or um, leave a review,
Speaker 1: you in a rating. Please do that. It helps other
Speaker 1: people find us. You can also stream us anywhere again,
Speaker 1: you know how you're finding us. I don't know why
Speaker 1: we do this, but we do. UM. You can find
Speaker 1: us on social media. I've got a Facebook page and
Speaker 1: a group, so like the page and join the group.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter We're thinking sideways. Um.
Speaker 1: And then we've also got a subreddit which is just
Speaker 1: thinking sideways. You can email us if you would like
Speaker 1: our email addresses Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: And then if you want to buy merch there's a
Speaker 1: link on the website. We do that through Zazzle and
Speaker 1: red Bubble both stuff. Um, really cool new shirt that
Speaker 1: Steve designed. Yeah. Yeah, they suggested a lot of different
Speaker 1: things forward Yeah. Yeah, so go ahead and check those out.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, and I think that's it. All of that
Speaker 1: having been said, we're gonna go ahead and get on
Speaker 1: out of here. Let's say something funny. Well, but this
Speaker 1: just isn't funny. Okay, I'm gonna say bye bye instead.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you guys next week. A