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Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: What's up, everybody, Welcome to Move the Sticks, presented by

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Speaker 1: New Era DJ Bucky back here on the MTS Position

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Speaker 1: Prototype Series finale episode today, Buck. Yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: been a fantastic uh series. I've said it many times.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is really enhanced and elevated my

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Speaker 1: knowledge based on all these positions. Being able to talk

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Speaker 1: to you not only great players at the position, with

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Speaker 1: guys who have coached a position or guys who have

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Speaker 1: evaluated position from a high level. Um, it has really

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Speaker 1: allowed me to rethink how we evaluate it. So I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about these cornerbacks to that. Yeah. Again,

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Speaker 1: you did a nice job of explaining there, Buck, But

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Speaker 1: this has been a series where we've been able to

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Speaker 1: go position by position and talk to all those folks

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned and not only you know what should

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Speaker 1: we be looking for in the position right now what matters,

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Speaker 1: but also I've enjoyed the aspect of it of what's

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Speaker 1: to come, what's the future of this position, because this

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Speaker 1: is a game that continues to change and evolve. Now,

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Speaker 1: Goff with three to the left takes the tap Harmon

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Speaker 1: out blets go off, throws into the right Gilmour's they're

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Speaker 1: intercepted at the four fires for the middle of the

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Speaker 1: field that Paul has picked off by Jalen Ramsey and

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Speaker 1: the end zone. What a play by Jalen. He made

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Speaker 1: up ground and he picked it off in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the end zone. It is ros Here's a blets

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Speaker 1: by Sherman coming off the corner and it's Richard Sherman

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Speaker 1: who gets a sack. Roethlisberger stand in the pocket, throws

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Speaker 1: across the round and null intercepted Chris Harris Jr. Second

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Speaker 1: straight week with a thick interception. We have a couple

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Speaker 1: of good people to come on. We got a number

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Speaker 1: three overall pick, Seawan Spring, someone who was with the

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Speaker 1: Seattle Seahawks when I was there working longtime defensive back coach,

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Speaker 1: Dennis Thurman, dB coach and defensive coordinator. He has been

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Speaker 1: in the league, was a great player also with the

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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys. And then we also have former Patriots and

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Speaker 1: Seahawks scout and current executive director of the Reese's Senior

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Speaker 1: Bowl Jim Naggy to discuss the position. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of conversation, a lot of insight can't wait to kind

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Speaker 1: of tackle to the subject with these guys. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a sad day going here for the h

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Speaker 1: the last episode in the series. But if you've missed

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Speaker 1: any of them, NFL dot com slash MTS prototype. So

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Speaker 1: that's NFL dot Com slash MTS prototype. You can find

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Speaker 1: the entire series where you've gone quarterback, running back, receiver,

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Speaker 1: tight end, offensive line, UH, and edge rushers. Those episodes

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Speaker 1: are all there for you to check out. So before

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Speaker 1: we get to these interviews, I thought we'd kind of

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Speaker 1: kick around our ideas. So what we feel is important

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Speaker 1: when we're evaluating this position. Go ahead, Buck. So the

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Speaker 1: first thing that I look for at the position UH

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Speaker 1: is crazy because it's really not anything physical. Is really

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Speaker 1: all mental. I'm looking for a high i Q football player,

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Speaker 1: a guy who is um understands the position and plays

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Speaker 1: the game what I call the right way. He understands

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Speaker 1: down in distance, he understands where he's supposed to fit,

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Speaker 1: he understands how to play with leverage. When you watch

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Speaker 1: the tape, you can tell that he understands hash split rule,

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Speaker 1: meaning he knows where the receiver is about to run

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Speaker 1: based on where the ball is near the hash all

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Speaker 1: of those things. So I want a high i Q player.

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Speaker 1: I want someone who is also doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: the greatest athlete, but he has to have good movement skills.

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Speaker 1: He has to be fluid able, to redirect, able to

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Speaker 1: kind of stay with some of those special athletes that

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Speaker 1: are on the edge. And finally, in my estimation, he

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Speaker 1: has to have outstanding ball skills. This is a league

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Speaker 1: that is built on turnovers. The guys who went to

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Speaker 1: turnover margin simply consistently win games. So I want someone

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Speaker 1: on the perimeter it is able to generate takeaway so

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Speaker 1: when the ball is errant, is a tip, it's an overthrow,

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Speaker 1: or they make a play, they come down with it.

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Speaker 1: There's a huge difference in this league and guys they

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Speaker 1: get interceptions and guys that just registered breakups. I want

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Speaker 1: the guys that are the ball hawks. So we've done

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Speaker 1: this and that's great. I We've done this trying to

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Speaker 1: come up with two or three attributes that we really

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Speaker 1: really trying to focus in this position. I've I've thought

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Speaker 1: about this and how to you know, how do you

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Speaker 1: say which three? This is what I've come up with. Buck.

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Speaker 1: There's like a gateway right to get into the to

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Speaker 1: get into the door, and the evaluation process we talked

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Speaker 1: about in quarterbacks right then enough arm strength, enough athletic ability.

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Speaker 1: So for me, you know, the quickness, the speed, the fluidity, like,

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Speaker 1: just be at an acceptable range for those. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: that's to get into the evaluation process. If you don't

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Speaker 1: have those, we can't really evaluate you. But then to me,

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Speaker 1: this is there's a lot of people that fit that criteria.

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Speaker 1: They've got enough speed, they got enough quickness, they got

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Speaker 1: enough fluidity. To me, these are the two things that

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Speaker 1: when I look back at guys I've missed on and

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Speaker 1: trying to learn and grow. The two things now that

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Speaker 1: I am more passionate about than I've ever been at

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Speaker 1: this position. Uh. To me is ball skills. What you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: can you play the ball if you find it. If

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Speaker 1: a player cannot find the ball in college, trust me,

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Speaker 1: he is not going to find it magically when he

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Speaker 1: gets to the NFL. So ball skills is number one,

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Speaker 1: and number two is competitiveness. And competitiveness shows up in

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Speaker 1: a variety of ways. It shows up on those balls.

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Speaker 1: It shows up when your beat can you recover? It

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Speaker 1: shows up when you've got to get off a block

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Speaker 1: and make a play. With all the bubble screens and

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Speaker 1: fly sweeps that we're seeing now, I think it used

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Speaker 1: to be kind of funny. We used to joke about it. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we pay him to cover. Those days are over. Man,

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Speaker 1: With the way that the quick passing game is now

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Speaker 1: and the way the ball is getting the perimeter, you

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Speaker 1: can't tackle. It's tough to play in this league right now.

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Speaker 1: You have to be able to tackle. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those things when we're talking about three attributes. You don't

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Speaker 1: do that. But I think your overall toughness kind of

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Speaker 1: embodies all of that, Like you have to be tough

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Speaker 1: and competitive, and if you're a competitive guy, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to let people run around and dance on the

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Speaker 1: perimeter without hitting them and getting them to the ground.

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Speaker 1: The ball skills, I mean, it goes without mentioning that

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to turn the ball over.

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Speaker 1: Guys who are able to really rack up big turnover

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Speaker 1: numbers their their difference because their game changes, and so um.

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Speaker 1: I ultimately want to look for what I call the catholte,

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Speaker 1: a guy who has size, speed, athleticism, explosive nousts who's

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Speaker 1: a technician who has a high i Q, who also

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Speaker 1: has those other traits when it comes to being a

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Speaker 1: ball hawk. Now I'm with you, all right, We've let's

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Speaker 1: get to these conversations. We've got some good ones coming

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Speaker 1: up here. UH. Dennis Sturman, who had a chance to

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Speaker 1: work with in Baltimore. You've known DT forever for a

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Speaker 1: long time, played against him and played against his team

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Speaker 1: SC and college UM and then he's become one of

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Speaker 1: my dearest friend. He is an outstanding UH coach does

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Speaker 1: a great job of really talking about this defensive back.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna get to him in a minute.

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Speaker 1: We're also gonna get to Jim Naggy, who you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: who's been around some great dbs. One of the dbs

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Speaker 1: UH that we're gonna talk to first though. Jim Naggy

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Speaker 1: spent some time working with in New England Patriots. A

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Speaker 1: guy who found some time with the New England Patriots

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Speaker 1: as well as a team that you were with with

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Speaker 1: the Seattle Seahawks. UH top ten pick in an outstanding

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Speaker 1: pro Shawn Springs coming out of Ohio State, big reputation

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Speaker 1: lived up to it in the league. Here's our conversation.

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Speaker 1: I had a chance to visit with Shawn Springs. Let's coming, Plumber.

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Speaker 1: It's picked off Clay Springs. Springs on the return puts

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Speaker 1: back at He's gone. Shan Springs his second touchdown return

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Speaker 1: of an interception in as many weeks, and the Seahawks

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Speaker 1: appear to have this one in hand. I could be

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Speaker 1: more excited, uh than to talk to my next guest

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Speaker 1: here and Sean Springs, and you're talking about the corner position.

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Speaker 1: What a person to talked to him and who spent

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Speaker 1: thirteen years agatting done in National Football League and Sean

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Speaker 1: first question, I want to go back to the beginning.

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Speaker 1: When did you first line up on the defensive side

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Speaker 1: of the ball. I gotta imagine, uh, you were playing

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Speaker 1: a little bit offense when you were a youngster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in high school, I played both ways. I was running

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Speaker 1: back and receiver in high school, and then I played

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Speaker 1: defensive back obviously when I got to Ohio State. So

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Speaker 1: that's when I became a full time defensive player. For

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Speaker 1: those who don't know, share this a little bit of

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Speaker 1: family background there, because you ended up on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the ball. Then your then your father, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my dad, Ron played for nine years in the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and he was running back and uh, he was probably

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Speaker 1: the first one to tell me, like running back for

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Speaker 1: down a dozen like and he was like, you need

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Speaker 1: to play defensive back. Maybe you can return kicks and

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Speaker 1: patton college, but for the most part played defensive back.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Talk us through your arrival there not

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Speaker 1: Ohio State in college and the biggest adjustment from high

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Speaker 1: school to college at the corner position and one are

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Speaker 1: some things you felt you really needed to learn to

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Speaker 1: be able to get to get out there and excel

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Speaker 1: as you did. The first day I showed up to

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Speaker 1: the Ohio State I quit man. I called, I called home.

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Speaker 1: I told my dad, I can't cover these receivers. Man,

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Speaker 1: they got walk on running past me. At one walk

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Speaker 1: on his name was Terry Glenn. And then I went

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Speaker 1: up against the starter, his name was Joey Galloway. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I can't keep up with these guys. And

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Speaker 1: you know, there was the adjustment was just you know,

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Speaker 1: when you go to a program like o How State,

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Speaker 1: you have to learn how to compete every day against

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Speaker 1: guys um who who obviously had long careers in NFL

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Speaker 1: at the receiver position and then you know, I had

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Speaker 1: some great corners that I had in my room as well,

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Speaker 1: with Antoine Winfield being one, and a man Plumber and

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Speaker 1: Nate Clements those guys who came through Ohio States. So, um,

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing for when you go to a program

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Speaker 1: like that is, you know, you gotta be able to

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Speaker 1: compete to get on the field. But when you gotta

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Speaker 1: when you get on the field, you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to line up every day and be able to

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Speaker 1: play the technique and go against the best receivers in

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Speaker 1: the country. A right, Sean, when we look at the

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Speaker 1: corner position, when we're evaluating the want of position. You

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Speaker 1: just mentioned some of the great players you played with

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Speaker 1: being a great player yourself, but different body types. You know,

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Speaker 1: you and Antoine Winfields specifically couldn't be any more opposite

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Speaker 1: in terms of what the body type is. So if

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Speaker 1: we're gonna find what do great corners have in common

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Speaker 1: regardless of size, what is it? I think the one

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Speaker 1: thing all great corners have that confidence, the ability to

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Speaker 1: have that self talk and uh talk down doubt. You know,

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Speaker 1: as a cornerback, you know, all the receivers they want

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Speaker 1: to score and they want to take you up top

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Speaker 1: and you know, you could have fifty eight plays that

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Speaker 1: you play in the game that they're great, and two

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Speaker 1: plays you get beat on and everyone says that you

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Speaker 1: had a bad game. So I think, yeah, as a corner,

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Speaker 1: you've got to be able to let things go and

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Speaker 1: be able to respond to come back the next play.

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Speaker 1: When we're doing the evaluation, a lot of times you

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Speaker 1: want to see guys what they do, what they how

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Speaker 1: they function up and press also going to be taking

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Speaker 1: your notes when we get them an off coverage, uh,

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Speaker 1: teaching points or what you should be looking for. We're evaluating,

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Speaker 1: we're watching the guy and press what are some focused points?

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Speaker 1: And we're watching the guy from off coverage, what are

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Speaker 1: some good focus points. When I'm when I'm watching the

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Speaker 1: guy and press, you know, I would like to see

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Speaker 1: how he uses hands. You know, a lot of times

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Speaker 1: guys they're being press coverage, but they're they're soft technique

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Speaker 1: and it's time for soft technique. But they won't get

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Speaker 1: their hands on on the receiver. And I'm I'm off

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Speaker 1: the school of belief. If the receivers lined up or

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Speaker 1: for the way from your leash, you try to jam

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Speaker 1: them in and reroute them and get them into their

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Speaker 1: route as quick as possible. UM, and guys, and you

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Speaker 1: know one thing about playing press coverage, it's not just

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Speaker 1: to stop the receivers, is also get defensive back in position.

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Speaker 1: So the guys who, yeah, you might get your hands

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Speaker 1: on the guy, but what happens if he knocks your

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Speaker 1: hands down? And can you catch up? And can you

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Speaker 1: can you keep yourself in position? When you talk about

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Speaker 1: off coverage, I'd like to see guys who who are patient,

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Speaker 1: who can stay square, who can take their resteps, who

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Speaker 1: canna recognize patterns and be able to make adjustments, uh,

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Speaker 1: and keep their leverage if you're inside leveraty off technique,

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Speaker 1: stay inside. UM. So there's all those type of things

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Speaker 1: that you watch. His a player like am I in

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Speaker 1: the right position all the time because off coverage gives

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Speaker 1: a receiver a lot of opportunity to running in free space.

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Speaker 1: Challenge for for me, over the last few years, it

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Speaker 1: seems like you watch a lot of the college game,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see a lot of cover four. We see

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Speaker 1: a lot of these outside corners with their butt to

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Speaker 1: the sideline, simply just schiffing and reading through the wide

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Speaker 1: receiver back to the quarterback, and it is a major

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Speaker 1: transition from that style of play versus what they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be asked to do at the NFL level. Um, when

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Speaker 1: you watch the game, when you're watching on Saturdays, have

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Speaker 1: you noticed how that's changed and how more difficult is

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Speaker 1: that transition now with the way the games played in college? Yeah? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think one thing. You know, if you look at

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Speaker 1: the defensive backs in college, most of those guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: they play uh in a scheme that obviously you're going

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Speaker 1: against offenses that you see in a big twelve and

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Speaker 1: pack twelve. And so the game has changed because the

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Speaker 1: way these quarterbacks are coming to the coming into the

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Speaker 1: in college. You know, these guys are throwing at seven

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Speaker 1: on seven and the quarterbacks are advanced coming into college

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Speaker 1: and also into the NFL. So you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to play technique. And it seems to me from

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Speaker 1: what I see, and it's a very few corners who

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Speaker 1: who are able to uh just get after somebody and

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Speaker 1: and and play good technique on a consistent basis. They

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Speaker 1: all seem like they want to make plays and just

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Speaker 1: play within the scheme a little bit. And we use

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Speaker 1: words a lot of times. You guys use it as players,

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Speaker 1: coaches use it. We talked about it and scouting. Um

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Speaker 1: the word transition. If maybe someone's listening to this or

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Speaker 1: watching this and they don't they hear that word, they

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Speaker 1: don't know what it means. Can can you explain that

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Speaker 1: to him? Transition is the ability to be able to

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Speaker 1: close that gap and change directions. I think you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of times, you know, you see corners who

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Speaker 1: can uh who the great ones can accelerate once they

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Speaker 1: plan and drive that foot, they can accelerate and close

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Speaker 1: the distance between themselves and the receiver. Uh, they can

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Speaker 1: get spun around it. They can, and they can get

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Speaker 1: right back on the hip of the receiver. So or

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Speaker 1: guys who are just smoothing and pedal and just everything

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Speaker 1: looks fluids. It's not hercue jerky and all over the play.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I think about when I think about transition.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I want to go back to your era

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Speaker 1: when you play. You mentioned some of those corners you

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Speaker 1: played with it Ohio States, some great corners in the

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Speaker 1: NFL during your time that joined you. But I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about wide receivers that you're going up against

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Speaker 1: and what who gave you some trouble. Who were some

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Speaker 1: of the great wide receivers and why why was it

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Speaker 1: a challenge versus those guys? Yeah, yeah, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of Uh, there was some great receivers in the

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Speaker 1: air I played and uh, you know one guy or

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Speaker 1: the system that I hated to go against was it

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Speaker 1: was Tory Holt. And those guys are the greatest, which

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Speaker 1: is in modern day football, that the greatest show on turf.

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Speaker 1: But when you talk about Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt

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Speaker 1: and Kurt One of what those guys were doing, they

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Speaker 1: were dangerous with the guy you know, once you were

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Speaker 1: a man covered, you had Marshall Falk out of the

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Speaker 1: back backfield so that offense and just they could make

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Speaker 1: adjustments on the fly. They were explosive. Randy, Randy and

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Speaker 1: t O were the bigger receivers that I love competing against.

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Speaker 1: But they both had their challenges where you know Randy

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Speaker 1: was getting even which he was leaving in Terrell. You know,

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Speaker 1: you know Julio Jones is and Martin Day version of

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Speaker 1: Terrell owns. But you know if you let t O

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Speaker 1: get going and catch the ball and you had to

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Speaker 1: want to tackle them. So, um, those are some of

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Speaker 1: the tougher receivers that I faced. Um, the ones that

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Speaker 1: gave me trouble always seemed to be the smaller guys,

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Speaker 1: the West Walkers, and they were tasting those guys around.

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Speaker 1: Santana Moss, who was my teammate in Washington, I just

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Speaker 1: hated tasting those little guys around, and they moved all

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Speaker 1: over the place. I want to ask him specifically about Winfield.

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Speaker 1: We've been around one one. Yeah, one of the best,

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Speaker 1: uh inside corners that we've seen the NFL in last

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty years. Um, what is it about that? Because

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Speaker 1: when we're evaluating, we have guys on the draft board.

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Speaker 1: Now there's two different columns for outside guys and inside guys.

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Speaker 1: What made him so special is somebody that could play inside. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're right that the nickel position is evolved

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Speaker 1: in the last probably five years. For sure, I can

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Speaker 1: think of announce the nickel spot. But Antoine, you you

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Speaker 1: know what was so unique about Antoine is that he

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Speaker 1: was like a linebacker plan plan and the nickel you

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Speaker 1: could actually take an outside linebacker and put him in

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Speaker 1: there and he could fill in a gap. He could

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Speaker 1: fill the B gap, He could take on a run

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Speaker 1: as well as cover. Uh. He had the quickness to

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Speaker 1: be able to stay with some of the smaller slot receivers,

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Speaker 1: but he also had a physical toughness to be to

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Speaker 1: take on a run in a run game and no

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Speaker 1: doubt and when we look at the game the way

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Speaker 1: it's played right now, one of the themes we've kind

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Speaker 1: of had um in this discussion talking about DBS is

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Speaker 1: the tackling has become more important now maybe than it

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Speaker 1: ever has before. And when you're when you're watching a

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Speaker 1: corner and you're seeing a young corner and there's some

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Speaker 1: people that say, if he doesn't bite as a puppy,

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Speaker 1: he's not gonna bite when he's a big dog. When

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Speaker 1: you're watching, if you've seen guys can do you are

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Speaker 1: you born with that mentality to want to be able

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Speaker 1: to get involved in the run game. Is that something

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Speaker 1: we're talking? Well, I think he can be taught to tackle. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a certain physical toughness, you know

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Speaker 1: that comes along with playing corner. You know, most people

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Speaker 1: think your job is a taste to receive was around

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Speaker 1: and get the ball, which is seventy of your job,

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Speaker 1: but you also have to be able to bring down

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Speaker 1: the tough running backs. You're donna have to be able

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Speaker 1: to come up and and uh fill the lane on

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Speaker 1: the guy like Ezekiel Elliott. And you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to do it on a consistent basis because now

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Speaker 1: you've got these home run handers, these guys can take

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Speaker 1: it to distance. Um. So you know, I know, I

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Speaker 1: had a great coach in Washington, Greg Williams, who who

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Speaker 1: just taught physical toughness, and he would tell you to

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Speaker 1: go up there and give any expected the corners to

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Speaker 1: make plays. So I think it would be taught. If

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Speaker 1: you didn't, then you would be on the sideline with him.

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Speaker 1: I want to see me and give me a definition here,

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Speaker 1: because you talk to DV coaches around the league and

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Speaker 1: they all have a different way of describing it. But

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Speaker 1: some will say an edge, some will say a swagger.

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Speaker 1: But there's a certain mentality you hinted at it earlier.

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Speaker 1: There's a certain mentality at the corner position. What what

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Speaker 1: is that? What is that psyche like for great corners

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Speaker 1: like yourself, because it seems like you'll have it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think that the trick is the corners who don't

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Speaker 1: have fear, you know, And I'm talking about spear from

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Speaker 1: a sense of you know that you're going up against

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Speaker 1: the best, and you gotta you gotta welcome that challenge.

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Speaker 1: So you gotta love that challenge. But the guys who

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Speaker 1: are afraid to get beat won't make any plays. So

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Speaker 1: you gotta have the confidence when you go out there.

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Speaker 1: It's like, man, I'm gonna get after this dude, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make plays and I'm just gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: line up and have that confidence that you prepared and

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Speaker 1: your technique is there where you can cover anybody. That swagger, confidence,

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Speaker 1: the ability that the self talking and talk to yourself up.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have it. Well, last thing that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: let you go, I'm just gonna give you an opportunity

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Speaker 1: in this form right now. If you'd like to, you

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Speaker 1: can thank your father for guiding you away from the

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Speaker 1: running back position into the defensive backfield because I think

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Speaker 1: he brought you some extra years there. Oh yeah, he

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Speaker 1: probably brought me like eight more extra years. You know.

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Speaker 1: My dad was the one who said, man, running back

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Speaker 1: to the dying possession, you need to play corner and

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Speaker 1: play a long time and uh, and that the way

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Speaker 1: these guys practiced now the way. You know, the game

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Speaker 1: is fun and it's exciting. I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people talk about this new era of football when you

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Speaker 1: see Kansas City and then Rams go at it or

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Speaker 1: the Saints, and you know what you see Thomas been

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Speaker 1: doing for the last probably fifteen years. Man, I would

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Speaker 1: have loved to play in this era of football. Man.

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Speaker 1: They're throwing the ball around. Man, they're drawing the ball around.

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Speaker 1: I love you, guy. You gotta go out there and

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Speaker 1: get it. Hey, Sean, Man, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: your time today, and from your lips to every parent's ears.

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Speaker 1: If your kids an athlete, but put him on the

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Speaker 1: defensive side of the ball, I love it. Make him,

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Speaker 1: make him the next Jalen Ramsey. Man, and I sent

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Speaker 1: him my dad Jalen Ramsey the Danzai Award or somebody

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Speaker 1: like that. Manell their bodies. I love it, man, Hey,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. That was awesome, Sean.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it all right, Bucket. It was interesting to

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Speaker 1: me hearing him, uh, you know, kind of comparing the

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Speaker 1: guy like Julio Jones being a modern day Terrell owens Um.

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Speaker 1: You can go back and listen to him talk about

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Speaker 1: the challenge he had at a o whild state going

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Speaker 1: up against some of those wide receivers he had to

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Speaker 1: see in practice. Um Man, how about that when you

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Speaker 1: get Joey Galloway and Terry Glenn. That's a good way

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Speaker 1: to welcome you to college. But that's a good way,

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Speaker 1: and that's why he was really really prepared to succeed

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Speaker 1: and thrive at the next level. I would say my

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Speaker 1: story about Sean Springs going up to Seattle and watching him.

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Speaker 1: You see him come out of the locker room body beautiful,

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Speaker 1: I mean, chisel cut, long arms. Um a guy who

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Speaker 1: was really a thoroughbred on the hoof. He can run,

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Speaker 1: he can challenge you at the line of scrimmage. He

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Speaker 1: had ball skills. He is really really intelligent and kind

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00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 1: of knew his role. The big thing for Sean is

430
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,360
Speaker 1: he was so talented that you're trying to figure out

431
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 1: what is the best way to maximize his talent. Should

432
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 1: we let him travel, should we keep him on one side,

433
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: put him at left corner, and let him be the

434
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 1: dominant player. He is everything that you were looking for

435
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: the position, which is why he speaks so well to it.

436
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 1: And I thought it was fascinating that his dad Ron

437
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: Springs had great careers are running back in the National

438
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: Football League. He admitted he brought him a couple extra

439
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: years by getting him out of that running back position,

440
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: getting him to go into the dB room and made

441
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 1: the lecture cash in the process. Hats off the pops.

442
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,119
Speaker 1: All right, we've got We've got Jim Naggy coming up

443
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: here and just a little bit, but let's get to

444
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: our next interview with Dennis Thurman. Great player in the NFL,

445
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 1: also a tremendous track record as a defensive coordinator as

446
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: well as a dB coach in the NFL, and you

447
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: had a chance to catch up with him. You can't

448
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 1: talk about defensive football without bringing in one of the

449
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: best players, one of the best coaches, one of the

450
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 1: guys who has been mentored by some great at the position.

451
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 1: Dennis Thurman, former defensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills, also

452
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 1: the New York jest anywhere else, I'm anybody else, I

453
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 1: miss it, any other sayings all the accolades. All right,

454
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: so I fluffed you up pretty good. I got you

455
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 1: pumped up. But look, Dennis, we want to talk about

456
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: the cornerback position and what separates the good from the great.

457
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: So when you think about dbs, what are the essential

458
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 1: traits that the great ones have? The great ones always have. Well,

459
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: first thing, they have a great vision. You have to

460
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 1: have tremendous vision. Okay, then you have to have great feet,

461
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: great hands. When I say hands, it's the ability to

462
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,360
Speaker 1: get your hands on someone, but also catch the football,

463
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: the ability to redirect people, understand how to drip people.

464
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: The ball has to end up on the grounds. Receiver

465
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: doesn't catch it, you've done your job. But a lot

466
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: of guys think, hey, I gotta hit the ball. You

467
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: don't always have to hit the ball as a corner,

468
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: just meant sure to receiver doesn't catch it. So teaching

469
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: them how to strip a receiver by getting hands back

470
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: up under armpits, separating the hands. It's just a lot

471
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: of different things. But the eyes are first because if

472
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: you can't see them, if you can't see him, you're

473
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: not gonna go. You know, you can't go with them.

474
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 1: So you have to be able to track them. So

475
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: you have to have a great vision. Your feet have

476
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: to get you there, okay, and it really when you're

477
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: talking about one on one past defense, you play tag, right,

478
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: it's the greatest tag game. In the history of tag,

479
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: because if wherever he's running, where do you have to

480
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 1: go get them off to the spot. Yeah, you gotta

481
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: get get where he's going, right, Okay, Well, it's the

482
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: greatest form of tag there is. All we're doing is

483
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: paying tag, playing a game of one hand tag. Now

484
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: kids game. It is a kid's game. So I've always

485
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: been and told I've always viewed the quarterback position as

486
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: one where the guy on the perimeter is at the

487
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: catholic because the only position where you start going backwards

488
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: before you go forward. Physically, when you're evaluating position, what

489
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: are you looking for? If we could, we could draw

490
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: it up? What are you looking for? Quick feet balanced

491
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: his ability to mirror someone as quickly as the guys

492
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: moving forward. You have to be able to mirror him

493
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: going backwards just as just as well. And if a

494
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: guy can't do that, he's not gonna have a chance

495
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: to play dB. Okay, you can. You can teach him

496
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 1: different techniques. You can teach them how to get up

497
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 1: there and press bail. You can teach him to get

498
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 1: up there and just press all day. But there's times

499
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: where you have to be able to play off and

500
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: mirror a receiver running backwards as fast as he is

501
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: running forward. And if you can't do that, you're gonna

502
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: struggle to play dB over a long period of time.

503
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: So for for so long, in recent years, we we've

504
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: seen this trend where people go from smaller corners to

505
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: now want a bigger corner. Um having been a guy

506
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: that is coached both, what are the differences with a

507
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: big corner and those small nickel type coins. Well, the

508
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: bigger corner is gonna give you an opportunity. Well, the

509
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: one of the biggest corners, he's a Hall of Famer

510
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: that ever senting, was Mel Blunt. Mel Blunt was like

511
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: six four twohundred five pounds two and ten pounds before

512
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: it was even popular guys that size you to play

513
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: outside linebacker. And all he did was grab guys and

514
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: throw him in the gatorade, okay, and had a tremendous

515
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: amount of success. And so in the big corner back then,

516
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: it was about the physicality. Now it's the longer angular

517
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: corner that you're looking at. From Mike Haines to Antonio Cromarty's,

518
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: the Richard Sherman's, even even Josh Norman at Washington, those

519
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: guys have length. Okay, you don't necessarily have to be

520
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: the fastest when you're long, because your your length helps

521
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: you in terms of can you get the ball over me?

522
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: Can you get the ball by me? Because I now

523
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 1: can reach and stretch, as opposed to a shorter corner

524
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 1: who does not have that, who needs to have tremendous

525
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: speed allied Darryl Green. Okay, darl Green came in with

526
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: world class speed and he was able to just run

527
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: with any and everybody. But at one point he had

528
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: to learn how to use his speed because when he

529
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: was younger, he just ran fast all the time. Once

530
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: he learned how to use this speed, that's when he

531
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: became the Hall of Famer. That he became so little

532
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: smaller corners because you talked about the big corners and

533
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: how they have to play. When you have a small

534
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: corner and you're having to put him in and maybe

535
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: has to play inside and nickel or at the slot,

536
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: what does he have to have if he's an undersized

537
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: player to be able to succeed tremendous tremendous quickness, Because

538
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: when you're in that slot, you're now dealing with someone

539
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: who has a three way go on you and when

540
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: I say that the outside corner always most of the time,

541
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: he thinks, well, depending on his split, he's either gonna

542
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: go inside or outside or deep. When I'm dealing with

543
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: that slot receiver, he can go inside, outside, or deep

544
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: on me anytime he wants to because he has more

545
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: space to work with. So if he doesn't have tremendous

546
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: short area quickness and underneath quickness, he will struggle on

547
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: that slot. Okay, So we've had this conversation privately, but

548
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: I want to kind of bring it to air. Your

549
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: nickel corner, your slot corner. Are you in the camp

550
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: that that guy needs to be your best corner? Are

551
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: you just saying that's where we put the small guy? No,

552
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: he it can it can be. We we wrestled in

553
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: New York early with putting the rail at that position. Yes,

554
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: but he was so good outside that we didn't want

555
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: to mess with Durrell And then when we got chro Marty.

556
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: That was one of the reasons why we drafted Kyle

557
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: Wilson because Kyle had the short area quickness and speed

558
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: underneath that we were looking for and we didn't have

559
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: to mess with our two premier corners that we had

560
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: outside and by drafting Kyle, we were saying we had

561
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: what we needed outside, let's find that guy inside if

562
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: we moved the rail. Now Durrell is doing what we're

563
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: asking him to do because there's no doubt we feel

564
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: like he could have played on the slot, but now

565
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: that outside, we felt like we would have weakened ourselves

566
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: and we didn't want to do that. It's always easy

567
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: to help a slot corner than it is helping an

568
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: outside corner when you're playing against eleven person Noel, So

569
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: now you brought up the real Reevers his name, and

570
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, some would say he might

571
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: have had the best corner, best season ever for a cornerback.

572
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: They were talking about he maybe the shutdown corner. It's

573
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: only been a couple of those guys and dents in

574
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: the real Reevers. What made the real Reevers the prototype

575
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: at his position during his prom well, he his balance.

576
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: When the first thing I noticed about him was his balance.

577
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: He didn't get He was never off balanced. There was

578
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: not one time in that two thousand and nine season

579
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: where I felt like he was out of position or

580
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: he wasn't in a position to make a play. Tremendous

581
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: feet tremendous patients. He could get his hands on any receiver.

582
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just one hand. He could get both

583
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: of his hands on the receiver. He rerouted guys and

584
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: made them go where he wanted them to go, not

585
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: where they wanted to go. And then people thought it

586
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: was just the mirage. Okay, we just got you know what,

587
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: he had a good game last week, so we're gonna

588
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: get No, he had a good game that No, he

589
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: just kept having putting back back to back, back to back,

590
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: back to back great games. He was the reason why

591
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: we went to the championship game in two thousand and

592
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: nine and two thousand and ten. Without him, we don't go.

593
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: We were able to put to put him on whoever

594
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: we wanted to, and then we we took the other

595
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: ten guys and we we did what we had to

596
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: do to stop the other team's offense. But he gave

597
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: us that type of flexibility to do that, and it

598
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: was It was truly one of the greatest or two

599
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: of the greatest seasons we've we've we've seen in a

600
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: long time. Well, now I know you're still close to

601
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: the game, you still watch the game. So if you

602
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: had to pick a young guy, a guy that is

603
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: currently playing right now. It's kind of like the new prototype.

604
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: Who would be a young guy? What about Jayla Ramsey

605
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: mation the prototype? Well, he because he's physical, he's long,

606
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: he's angular, he's fast, he can he can change direction.

607
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: He has an excellent ball ball skills. Just stop talking. Work.

608
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: He didn't need to talk. Let your play. Do you're talking? Okay?

609
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: Last year before he had a phenomenal year. Okay, where

610
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: did where did Jacksonville go? And he went forward? He

611
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: went to champions. When you have a truly great corner,

612
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: he can he can lead your defense. Okay, he needs

613
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: to just play. Last year he started doing what talking. Yeah,

614
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: quarterbacks can't do this. Quarterbacks do. Just play. You you're

615
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: tremendous football player. Go play the game. Lead your defense

616
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: because he has that type of ability. Stephanie Gilmore has

617
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: had two great years in New England. Oh, Stepford Gilmore,

618
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: Jalen Ramsey. Okay, so I'm trying to figure out, let's

619
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: not I can't let you go because there's a guy

620
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: who was at one point the prototype that I don't

621
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: think a lot of people really recognized or gave him

622
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: a love credit Chris McAllister. You coached him in Baltimore.

623
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: People are not familiar with Chris mc kelly. Just talk

624
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: about Chris mcklsey and what Chris mc kellister did to

625
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: kind of put his impact on the league as a

626
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: shutdown corner. Because when Chris came out out of the

627
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: University of Arizona, Chris was a top ten pick. I

628
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: believe he was a tenth player picked in first round.

629
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: The Ravens picked him. Chris was big, fast as a

630
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 1: goal I mean just when you look at him. He said, man,

631
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: how you're not playing corner, you're playing safety. You're playing

632
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: outside linebacker. But his ability to change direction for a

633
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: guy his size was uncanny. I just I sat there

634
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: and I said, uh, you're not supposed to do this.

635
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: But what Chris began to do and all I whispered

636
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: to Chris was a little man wins. And he said,

637
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: why do you keep telling me that? So you're playing

638
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: too high? And he looked at me. He said, all right, man,

639
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to do what you said. And he

640
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: started doing it and he started having success, and he

641
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: was like, man, this stuff works. Chris. You can change direction,

642
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: but you're you're playing too high. Get down lower, and

643
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: it was harder for him because six one six one

644
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: and a half pounds when Chris I believe when Chris retired,

645
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: Christal by two eighteen pounds as a corner, but he

646
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: could still play the position, but he was playing it

647
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: too high. He began to have success when he sank

648
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: his body and allowed his natural gifts to take over.

649
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: Chris began to go to the Pro Bowl. He was

650
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: shutting that guys down. They were getting one, two, three

651
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: catches a game. People weren't recognizing him for it because

652
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: Dion was still playing okay, so he kind of got

653
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: pushed to the back. And we had Ray Lewis and

654
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: we had Ed Reid, and we had Terrell Sucks, and

655
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: we had tremendous names on our defense. But Chris allowed

656
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: us to do some of the things that Darrell allowed

657
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: us to do. Okay, when we went when we were

658
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: in Baltimore, and then we just took it the same

659
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: and when we got to New York, we let Durell

660
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: do those things. All right, I said one more, but

661
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: now I do have a final one because this You

662
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: never really talked about your playing career. I've never seen

663
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: your on TV talk about I've never heard you already

664
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: to talk about it, so I kind of want to

665
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: talk about it because you had an opportunity to play

666
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 1: in Dallas, and that secondary with you. Everson Walls, Uh,

667
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: some record with a number of interceptions or whatever. Hundred

668
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: and fifty how many how many years? Bete, hundred and

669
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: fifty interception year. That's unbelievable. So what I want to

670
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: talk about because Everson Walls, Um, it's still up consideration

671
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: for the Hall of Fame. Everything wasn't wasn't a fast guy.

672
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: How can you be a successful corner in this league

673
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: when you're not fast? Tremendous eyes. He had tremendous eyes.

674
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: And that's why I keep going with eyes. The first

675
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: he could read routes. He didn't he didn't have to

676
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: play press. If you don't play press, you have to

677
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: have what great vision? He had tremendous vision. He could

678
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: read routes, He understood route patterns, he understood body language.

679
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: He I mean when he taught me about watching receivers,

680
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: how they break the huddle. Okay, they're pulling on their gloves,

681
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, are they you know? Do they look down

682
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: or they're looking up? Because a lot of times receivers

683
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: will tip off when they might be getting the ball

684
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: or when it's a pass. So there were things that

685
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: we had tradeoffs. Okay, because I helped him with learning

686
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: the overall defense, but everything. Had tremendous ball skills, but

687
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: more importantly, he had tremendous eyes, and that that was

688
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: his strength. He always played to that. You go watch tape,

689
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: you'll never see him in press. He don't think he

690
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: ever gotten pressed unless we were playing too man, okay,

691
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: because he had a he had a great ability to

692
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: read the quarterback and understand route patterns and combinations. He

693
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: took one interception from me on a slant. I swear

694
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: to god, I guys running a slant and he broke

695
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: on the ball before I did. And he just my

696
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: hands are here, and somebody's hands they were his. I said, man,

697
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: what hell? You said? Man? I just saw it. What

698
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: can you say? What can you say? Oh? Man, you

699
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: have said enough. Thanks for joining the Mood of six

700
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: podcast giving us an education on the prototypes at the

701
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: corner of back position. Well, Bucket was neat listening to

702
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: that conversation. You can definitely tell um somebody who I've

703
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: known DT a little bit, but you can definitely tell

704
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: you guys have a nice, nice relationship there. You guys

705
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: have known each other for a long time. I learned

706
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 1: so much about football from him, in fact, I mean

707
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: just we we have these weekly conversations where he just

708
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: kind of continues to enlighten me on the game. And

709
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: I think the big thing with thein is is how

710
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: he talks about like everyone can't handle it on the

711
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: perimeter and the fact that he was able to coach

712
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: the real reevers and the things separated Reeves from some

713
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: of the other guys, uh, not only the physical skills

714
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: uh that he displayed, but the toughness and the willingness

715
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: to really uh buy into practice and doing all those

716
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: other things. I think the real reeves his ability to

717
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: be a lockdown corner. To me, he is the prototype

718
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: because we haven't seen many that have been really able

719
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: to shut down one half of the field without assistance

720
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: from a safe And my notebook im run out of

721
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: room to write after that conversation with DT A lot

722
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: of knowledge he was dropping on us right there all right.

723
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: Next interview Jim Naggy and we talked about it at

724
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: the top. Buck one of the more respected evaluators who

725
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: decided to uh leave the the NFL game after being

726
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: a very successful executive on the scouting side of things,

727
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: to go take over the Reese's Senior Bowl, but still

728
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: constantly watching tape and up on the latest trends at

729
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: the position. Here's my conversation with Jim Naggy. All right, Jim,

730
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: let's talk about some some cornerbacks. Now. I was looking

731
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: at the cornerback position and and maybe how that's evolved

732
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: just from when you began scouting to where we are now.

733
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: What has chain what's more important now? The way the

734
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: game is played versus when you started. I think length

735
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: like any position. I think when I was getting into scouting, DJ,

736
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: you and I are about the same time there. Just

737
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: you hear length, length, length a lot more than you

738
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: when you ever did when we were breaking in, you know,

739
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: in the early two thousands. Um. I think that the

740
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: success that they had in Seattle with with Richard Sherman

741
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: and Browner and some of these longer corners, I think that's, uh,

742
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: you know, that's been huge at the position. I just

743
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: go back to this year's Senior Bowl game. UM, you know,

744
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: contacting teams and reaching out and trying to get feedback

745
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: about our rosters with with the NFL teams, it was like,

746
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: bigger guys, the better. You know, bring as many long

747
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: corners as you can um. But again, you know, you

748
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: also have to be mindful of the teams to play

749
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: a lot of off man coverage because those longer guys

750
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: are going to struggle in that. So there are teams

751
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: like the Patriots and in Houston teams that uh, you know,

752
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: coming from that New England model where they play a

753
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of off man where you need transition skills. You

754
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: need to you need to have that transition quickness and

755
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: reactionary athleticism and the top of a route to mirror.

756
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: So again it's kind of like two different packages. But

757
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: I do think that heightened length is at a premium

758
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: when you look at that, and some teams obviously employ

759
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: their corners differently. We talked about the wide receiver position

760
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: and Coach bill I used to always mention it and

761
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: mentioned on our Wide Receiver episode about building a basketball

762
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: team having guys that can do different things. Uh, smaller

763
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: guys a power forward to point guard. When you look

764
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: at the secondary now with so many teams using motions

765
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: and shifts and getting freeing up these wide receivers where

766
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: some of these bigger, longer corners can't get on them. Um,

767
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: what about building a basketball team in the secondary where

768
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: you have some of those big guys that can match up,

769
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: but also you're gonna have weeks where you're seeing Antonio Brown,

770
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: uh and maybe having somebody where the change of direction

771
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: of the fluid he might be a little more important. Yeah,

772
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: I think that. Again, I'm drawing on my own experience.

773
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: But you go back to the Seahawks over the last

774
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: couple of years. At one point we had all our

775
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: corners for six ft over guys with you know, thirty

776
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: two and a half inch arms, and you get in

777
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl against the Patriots and you know you

778
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: got Edelman, you know, turning guys inside out. You know,

779
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: we we had to play with Harold Sickman in the slot,

780
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: a little bit longer guy. Really wasn't fair, you know.

781
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's a big, longer guy. You can't match

782
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: up and change direction with a guy like Wes Welker.

783
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: So now you've seen the last couple of years that

784
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: played with Justin Coleman inside Who's who's a smaller corner

785
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: just signed a big deal with the Lions this offseason

786
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: and Justin played great in there, you know, But and

787
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: then we always had Cam Chancellor for the tight end.

788
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: UM kind of feel like you know, we were we

789
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: were big across the board, and I think even the

790
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: Seahawks is grounded Pete as coach Carroll is in playing

791
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: with a bigger defense. He made that adjustment to go

792
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: to a guy like Justin Coleman. Did you guys do

793
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: anything on your board for any of the teams? I

794
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: know everybody you know has a Nickel slaughter star slot

795
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: where you want to call it, and then they have

796
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: outside guys. Has there been more specialization just in talking

797
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: to people around league and your experience of saying, hey,

798
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: these are kind of our press corners, these are some

799
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: of the off corners. A way to designate them on

800
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: the board when you're trying to set up and get

801
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: ready for the draft. Yeah, we actually created a Nickel

802
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 1: column which we never had before. Um for those guys,

803
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: for those smaller under size guys that we knew if

804
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: they had to play outside they might struggle in our scheme. Um,

805
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: but for what we would be asking them to do

806
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: in the slot, they were perfect. And again not not

807
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: a total scheme fit, every down scheme fit, but as

808
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: much subdowns as as teams are in. Now, Um, that

809
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: guy is gonna be on the field six at the time,

810
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: so we had to account for that. So it kind

811
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: of created a nickel position. And then I think what

812
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: you're also seeing is a lot of teams trying to

813
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: use safeties as in the nickel spot. So just in

814
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: Latin this past year's draft, you see he Rattalie from Delaware. Um,

815
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: you know who went to the Chargers. I think he

816
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: was a perfect example. Jakwon Johnson from Miami. I mean,

817
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of a bunch of guys in

818
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: that Vane Darnell Savage to the Packers in the first round. Um,

819
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 1: just because you can mix and match in the secondary.

820
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: So you're seeing a lot more seeing a lot more

821
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: safety nickel versatility than you ever saw, you know, ten

822
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago. All I want to place you in

823
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: the draft room because I'm curious to see how you

824
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: handle this one. You you go out, you find a player,

825
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: you love his personality, you love his temperament. Uh, character

826
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: checks out. It's great. Uh he's explosive. Um, he's fluid,

827
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: but he can't find the football. Do you lobby for

828
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: that player or are you a buyer beware on that player? Well,

829
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: I think that depends on who you're who you're scouting for,

830
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: and you gotta know your your head coach and Pete

831
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: Carroll m it's all about the ball in Seattle, So

832
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: that would have been that would have been a tough

833
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: sell with coach Carroll. Guy that couldn't find and play

834
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: the ball, because again, I think it goes back to uh,

835
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: that's that's almost an inherent trait. Well at least at

836
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: least the you know places up ben that that's something

837
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: that's really hard to coach, being able to get your

838
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: head around find the football. That's why going back and

839
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: finding guys with a baseball background that maybe played some outfield,

840
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: played some center field, used to tracking a football. Um,

841
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things that can be developed.

842
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: We've just found over time that's that's a difficult thing

843
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: to to develop. It's one thing when they're seeing in

844
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: front and they can jump routes and break on the

845
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: ball and make place in front, but it's those plays

846
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: down the field, the plays that count, those explosive plays

847
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: that they can't make. That play down the field. Um

848
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: at some point or another that's gonna really lost your

849
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: football team all our last one. Then we'll let you

850
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: run here. Just the importance of tackling at the position

851
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: with the way the game is played now versus maybe

852
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago. Yeah, I think that. I think

853
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: the cliche is that you pay corners to cover um,

854
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: but at some point they're gonna have to tackle too.

855
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you've worked for teams where you

856
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: might be in a situation where your corners have to

857
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: come up and make that tackle in a big game

858
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: and they don't get the guy in the ground. Again,

859
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: you don't you don't need to be the most physical guy,

860
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: but you have to be willing, right, it's hard to

861
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: it's hard to sell a dB in a draft room

862
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: for a guy that that lacks toughness, you know, and

863
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: again not to you know, won't call out any particular player,

864
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: but there have been some players over the years that

865
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: I've loved his coverage guys, And and you know, the

866
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: coaches are the ones that have to coach these guys,

867
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: and they're the ones who's next are on the line

868
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: on Sunday, so they more more than scouts. Almost I

869
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: feel like coaches are the ones that want to see

870
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: the toughness in DBS and just finding the willingness. They

871
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: might not be big and strong, but at least come

872
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: up and cut and try to get a guy in

873
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: the ground. Um, you have to see that at minimum. Yeah.

874
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: To me, I just look at and think it's it's

875
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: maybe more important now than it's ever been, just because

876
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: of all the quick game, the perimeter game that we've

877
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: seen from the college game from Saturday's kind of seep

878
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: into Sunday football with you've got bubble screens, you've got

879
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: fly sweeps. It just seems like those guys they're gonna

880
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: get found. If you can't tackle and you're playing the

881
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: corner position, whether you're inside or outside, eventually the ball

882
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: is gonna find. You're gonna get yourself some trouble. Yeah,

883
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: especially if the nickel spot. That's a really good point,

884
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: do you ja the nickel spot. We always felt like

885
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: if you had a guy in there that was that

886
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: was on the softer side, they're gonna check ron and

887
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: find that guy, um and run at him. So yeah,

888
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: that's that's absolutely the case. Dude. I can't thank you

889
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: enough for your time. Man, it's awesome stuff. I really

890
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Bud Buck. The thing that jumped out to

891
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: me about that conversation is just knowing what you want.

892
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: You know, some position coaches and some organizations are gonna

893
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: favor different attributes more so than others. And to me,

894
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: you got to know what you're shopping for. And he

895
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: had a great example there in Seattle, and you'd watch

896
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: those big, tall, long corners to be a little bit stiff,

897
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: didn't worry about it. They could play in that defense

898
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: because they can all people on the perimeter. And I

899
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: think that was the thing that Seattle really uh did

900
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: very very well. They knew exactly what they wanted on

901
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: the perimeter. They were okay with the warts and the

902
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: issue that showed up in some of those players because

903
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: the rewards were the ability to be able to snuff

904
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: out bigger receivers, being able to match up and lock

905
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: it down and really make tight window throws kind of

906
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: the norm when you face that defense, and he is

907
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: right there, when you have bigger corners you have to

908
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: deal with um have a plan for dealing with the

909
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: shifty eyes. And that's why somewhere when you're building your room,

910
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: you may have a place for a smaller, quicker dB

911
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: that could play for them, a guy like a walk

912
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: to Thurman and Deshan and some of those other guys

913
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: they've been able to play, Which brings us to our

914
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: next part of the episode here where we have to

915
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: come up with a prototype if we're entering this upcoming

916
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: season here that is upon us and trying to find

917
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: a prototype with everything we've learned today. Who is you know?

918
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: It's This is a tough one for me, but I'm

919
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: gonna go in a difference. I'm gonna go with Marcus Peters.

920
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: And the reason prototype is because Marcus, ever, you know

921
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: what you're gonna do. Man, I think I know you,

922
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: but who are you? Are you? I like turnovers. I

923
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: like turnovers. So with Marcus Peters. The reason why Marcus

924
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: Peters to me is the prototype is because he's long,

925
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: he's ranging. When he was in college, look he could

926
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: go up and he could press. But what he's become

927
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: as a pro, He's become a guy that is a

928
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: terrific route reader. Like people will say that he's a gambler,

929
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: but I believe he is a calculator risk take, and

930
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: I think those risks turned into big rewards for the defense.

931
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: So yes, he may give up a play, but he

932
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: is going to make more plays than he ever gives up,

933
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: and those plays are gonna lead to points because their takeaways.

934
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: I thought, I knew you man, it's Jalen Ramsey. Uh,

935
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: You've always loved You've been a Jay guy from the jump.

936
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: I love him. Remember, by the way, when he was

937
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: coming out and some folks were saying he wouldn't be

938
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: remember that. I do remember. Remember those conversations on Twitter.

939
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: I remember some big people, big people at other networks

940
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: saying that raise your hand if you doubt of Jalen

941
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: Ramsey went, whatever me and you don't have the hands

942
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: out in there in our lap. Right now he's been Look,

943
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: I mean, look, Jalen Ramsey is certainly a prototype. Jalen

944
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: Ramsey is a prototype in terms of world class athlete

945
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: high i Q, very competitive, can come up, play nose

946
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: to nose and do all the things that you want

947
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: to see from a press corner. We don't see him

948
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: play off as much, but he's certainly capable of doing

949
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: it and the feistiness you want. I think from a

950
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: prototypical standpoint, though, like are you are? You are you

951
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: comfortable with, that's your coach. He's gonna be able to

952
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: handle that kind of strong personality, strong coach. I got

953
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: a strong coach. But can I give you a bonus name,

954
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: because I would say Jalen Ramsey. Maybe Paul Long athletic

955
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: can do everything? Uh dense alward with the way the

956
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: games played right now going forward. No, he's not the

957
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: biggest guy in the world, but give me you talk

958
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,959
Speaker 1: about competitiveness and ball skills are two things that harped

959
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: on at the beginning. Check check um and as somebody

960
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: who might not be the biggest guy, he can play big,

961
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: he can't play big. He's shown that play big. And

962
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: the other thing is, I know people taking the task

963
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: a little bit because he got dinged up a little

964
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: bit coming up trying to tackle whatever. But to me,

965
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: he is a willing tackler and that was the biggest issue. Hey,

966
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: would he come up? Will he come over strike people

967
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: when he has an opportunity on the perimeter. Well, he's

968
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: been able to do that. And then you get the

969
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 1: ball skills, the athleticism, uh, the ability to really blanket

970
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: elite receivers Denz Award. It's fascinating. I think The funny

971
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: thing in those three guys that we name totally different,

972
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: completely different styles, and so beauty is really in the

973
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: eye of the beholder. You have to match up your

974
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: prototypical corner with the scheme that you want to play

975
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: in your for your organization. No doubt, this has been

976
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: a fun episode, man, learn a lot about the cornerback position.

977
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: It's been a fun series. And this is gonna wrap

978
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: up the series again. If you're just checking this episode

979
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: out and you want more, We've got more. We've got

980
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, tight end, offensive line,

981
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: edge rushers. Uh, those are all out there those episodes

982
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: NFL dot com, slash mts Prototype and the folks can

983
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: get the entire series book. It's it's really been a

984
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: lot of fun and and selfishly, I feel like we've

985
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,959
Speaker 1: been saying this consistently selfishly as much as I hope

986
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: that the people like it. It was kind of for

987
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: us just to continue to learn and grow. Yeah, to

988
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: continue to learn and grow. I mean to talk about

989
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: notebooks being full all kinds of knows, but really the

990
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: conversations lead you to think about positions in a different way.

991
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: How you value certain traits. Uh, This has been a

992
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: fascinating series. Uh. I'm just really glad that the responses

993
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: that we've been able to receive on Twitter at how

994
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: people have received it really, really well, and how people

995
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: in the business have talked about how it's even helped

996
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: them hone there when it comes to looking at certain things,

997
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: no doubt. And if you haven't already, do us a

998
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: favorite subscribe to the Movie Sticks Podcast. We're gonna have

999
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: a bunch of great content like this coming your way.

1000
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: We are excited about the plans we have for the

1001
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: fall and as we go through this NFL season and

1002
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: March towards the NFL Draft. We've got you covered right

1003
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: here on Move the Sticks. All right, Buck, that's gonna

1004
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: do it for us. Anything else you want to add

1005
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: before we get out of here. No, it's been a

1006
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: fantastic series. I hope everyone goes back and checks all

1007
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 1: of our prototypes in this series. There you go. Thank

1008
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: you guys for listening to Move the Sticks presented by

1009
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: New Era. Thanks for downloading Move the Sticks with Daniel

1010
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. For more, go to n f

1011
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: L dot com Slash Podcasts