WEBVTT - How Morphic Fields Work? 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:02.880 If you've ever been at home and wondered, Josh and Chuck, 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:05.480 is it really worth going to see them perform live? 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.520 The answer is a resounding yes yes. And if you 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.639 live in Vancouver, b C or anywhere near there, come 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.240 on out to the Chance Center on Sunday, March twenty 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.919 nine to see us and find out for yourself. And 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.160 then the next night, if you live around Portland, Oregon, 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.840 you can go to the Arlene Schnitzer Concert Hall and 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.680 we'll be there ready to go on Monday, March That's right. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:28.880 You can get all ticket information at s y s 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.800 K live dot com. Welcome to Stuff you should know, 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:41.600 a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.080 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.320 w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's guest producer Dylan 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:53.279 sitting in this fine Wednesday morning of weirdness. Everything's out 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.360 of whack and strange. I know, right, Hopefully our voices 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.320 sound normal, Chuck. I was worried about that so out, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.920 not that anyone cares, but our regular Tuesday sesh got 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.679 pushed because our computer took a dump technical difficulties, and 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.920 then we said, hey, let's just do it tomorrow morning. 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.880 I had a few more technical difficulties, but here we 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:21.520 are going strong. Buddy, I'm tired, are you No? I'm okay. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.839 I've had enough coffee that I'm not tired. It's weird 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:25.800 for us to record in the morning and just everything's 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.240 out of whack. I would call it eerie, I think, 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.240 because you know, I do the movie Crush Mini Crushes 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.960 on Wednesday mornings usually, So usually I'm just making dumb 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.840 jokes and cussing a lot with nol. Right now, right, 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.520 I gotta switch my brain back into g rated mode. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.400 Yep to talk about Rupert Childrake. That's what we're doing. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.040 And you can curse if you want. We'll beep it 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:55.400 out Childrake, depending on Yeah. I think that's how the 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.320 scientific community refers to That's just one of those names. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:00.360 It seems like it should be yelled at like that. 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:05.200 And I like to call him Rupert after Michael Caine 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:11.040 in Um Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Remember he called Steve Martin's 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.920 name at one point was Rupert. There's a Cork on 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.920 the Fork. Yeah, man, that was a good movie. It 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.239 was so um we're talking about a different Ruprit or 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.040 rupert Rupert Shel Drake, who is widely considered in the 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:31.680 scientific community um, a heretic, fraud hoaxter, a pseudo scientist, 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:36.680 all sorts of things. And normally we don't entertain um 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.840 that kind of stuff, or specifically people who are considered 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.600 as such, because we tend to be like, yeah, pseudo 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.000 science is not so great. But there's something about Rupert 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:51.560 shell Drake is that maybe a little bit something like that. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.760 But he he is different in some ways. He kind 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.760 of stands alone. He's got staying power, to say the least. 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.720 He was first branded as sign antific heretic in and 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:07.840 he's still around doing his thing, ticking off the scientific establishment. Um. 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.639 But see, he's also in certain circles labeled as an 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:17.400 open minded scientist and someone not afraid to kind of 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:22.360 question the unquestionable, and someone who flies in the face 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:29.280 of what some people call the scientific orthodoxy or dogma 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.720 where everything is so rigid that there is no room 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:39.080 for new ideas. Right that that basically the scientific orthodoxy 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.480 that you refer to. It kind of says we are 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:48.440 on basically the right track. We generally have the parameters 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.600 kind of figured out. We know the math we need 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.240 to be using. We know the places we need to 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.240 be looking. We have generally and everything from physics to 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.680 biology and understanding of the general structure. Now it's just 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.440 a matter of filling in the details. We looked under 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.600 the hood, uh huh, and we know what's going on generally. 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.200 We know that it's a combustion engine and not an 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.280 electric car. That the universe is that kind of thing 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.760 electric car, right, So when somebody comes along and says, no, no, 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.880 that's not even a car that you're looking at, that's 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:25.400 a boat. Um. The scientific establishment or really any establishment, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.880 really tends to get shook by that kind of stuff. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.240 They don't like that. And one of the reasons I 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.400 was trying to figure out why people get so invested 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.599 in this. I think there's a lot of people who 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.680 come and say, I am a person of science, I 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.080 believe in this, I subscribe to it, and they end 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.760 up going so far as to pin their identity to it. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.839 And this happens with just about any any structure. And 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.760 when you pin your identity to something, when that when 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.800 that's something that structure is attacked, you take it as 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.640 a personal attack. And I think that that's one of 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.839 the reasons why a lot of people are so rapidly 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.400 against Rupert Sheldrake. So should we talk about this guy. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.240 I think we should. I think Chuck, we should explain. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.080 One of the reasons why he has such staying power 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.440 and what makes them different is that he is about 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.239 as trained as scientist as a scientist can be. Yeah, 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.400 And you know, as we move through this, you'll see 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.000 that what makes him stand out from kind of other 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:22.520 uh kus is that he's very very intelligent guy. He's 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.160 he's not a kook. No, So that's why it's kind 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.599 of like, that's why certain people listen to him. One 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.120 of the other things I really want to point out 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.600 at the start of this, and this is what really 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.039 differentiates him from a lot of people on the fringes today, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.800 is he's not in a hole. He's very polite, he's 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.640 very calm, he's very measured. He doesn't engage in ad 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.440 hominum attacks against his critics. He engages with his critics. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.919 He is he's actually a very congenial person. Yeah, he's 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.440 just on a different side of the coin from the 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.560 scientific establishment and almost every respect. Yeah. And when I've 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.000 read articles and interviews with other people from the established 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.440 mit that have hung out with him and done experiments. 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.040 They're all like, he's a really affable kind of fun guy, 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.320 even though when you look at him and when you 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:12.839 hear Rupert Sheldrake doesn't scream fun and affable. No, but 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.280 he is. Yeah, he's got a lampshade on his head 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.960 nine tenths at the time. Man, can you imagine the 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:24.359 party the lab parties beer boney. Alright. So he started 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.240 out his career um kind of right down the middle 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:32.440 of science science wise. Went to Cambridge as an undergrad. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.960 He won a Botany prize. Uh there, the University Botany Prize. 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.839 He then went to Harvard study philosophy, he studied the 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.840 history of science, went back to Cambridge. Yeah, apparently he's 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.440 just like a savant when it comes to science history. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.120 Went back to Cambridge, got his PhD in biochemistry, and 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.240 then a post stock with the Royal Society, uh in 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.479 plant development in the aging of cells. So I think 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:02.240 that's unassailable, unimpeached bowl. It really isn't. Had he just 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.480 kind of continued along this is largely in the seventies. 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.640 Had he just kind of continued along this path um, 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.560 he probably would have been a really widely respected although 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:18.400 pretty obscure plant scientist or biologist of some sort. But 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.160 one of the things that happened to him was he 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:24.559 went to India and studied and lived at an ash 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.000 room for about a year and a half and apparently 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:33.120 smoked a lot of hashish while he was there. The 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.520 hashish part, Oh, I'm just goofing, but but surely he did. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.560 But the thing is is, around this time, UM he 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.560 elaborated on an idea that he'd had that he learned about, 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:50.760 probably in his history of science. UM the classes that 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:56.240 science can't explain how you can take some cells that 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.560 start out as like a seed or something like that, 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:03.080 and that little seed grows into an oak tree, and 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:07.600 that that oak tree looks startlingly similar to other oak 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.600 trees that you know, you can dig up from a 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.560 thousand years ago, or imagine that they'll basically look like 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.560 a thousand years from now, or that are spread out 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:20.840 on different continents. They can't science can't explain how um 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.240 morphology works. That that how something becomes the thing that 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.080 it is, and that that resembles something else. And you say, well, 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.920 it's genetics, like that's kind of the common thing. But 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.520 here we get to that point where science is like, 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.200 we're we've got the broad strokes, we just don't understand 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.439 the details. And and genetics can possibly be the thing 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.280 that explains this later on, but we really have no 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:47.839 idea how this stuff works because it's really really intricate 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.280 how something like that happens. Yeah, it's almost like shell 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:57.120 Drake was like, uh, Tom Hanks and Big in the 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.520 in the boardroom when they're talking about the toys, and 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.240 he's just like, I don't get it. Yeah, like because 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.960 they'll say, oh, well it's d n A and he's like, yeah, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.960 but I don't get it. Like how does a toolip 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.960 become the tulip? Well it's d n A, yeah, but 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.480 that really doesn't explain at all. Well it's d n A. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.480 We understand d NA. He's like, yeah, I don't get it. Yeah. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.320 And to him specifically, DNA is a chemical that that 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.040 um dictates how other chemicals are produced. Right, he thinks 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.400 it's very overrated. He does um, which that in and 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.400 of itself is heretical. But it's pretty funny too. But 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.000 it is. But with with this, with morphology, with the 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.040 how something takes the shape that it has eventually in 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.720 it's a mature state. There's a lot going on there. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.199 There's like little cells that have to set up and 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.120 arrange in a certain pattern that later on down the road, 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.480 after all these processes play out, will form another pattern. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.920 So there's basically planning. There's um timing like all those 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.440 that process has to happen at just the right steps 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.680 and just the right stages for that end result to 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.439 be it's supposed to be. There's differentiation of cells where 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.640 one cell can produce a new cell and the new 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.120 cell has totally different genes turned offer on that will 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.440 allow it to specialize. And these are the things we 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.319 don't understand what's guiding it. And so Rupert Sheldrake kind 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.400 of tapped into a thought that started, I think back 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.160 in the nineteen twenties among biologists that there must be 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:29.800 some unseen guide or force that is that basically says 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.040 I've got this, I know what the end result is. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.720 I can take the starting bit and guide it into 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.640 this end result, and we don't understand what that is. Yeah, 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.840 there were a couple of scientists in the twenties and 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:49.360 thirties studying what they called uh morpha genetic fields, which 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.920 is sort of like the idea that there's this invisible 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.840 mold that we don't fully understand that gives the shape 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.520 to these things. Uh. Guy named C. H. Waddington in 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.200 nineteen thirty six had a paper called morphogenesis and the 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:08.199 field concept, and then a Russian biologist named Alexander gurvitz 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.840 Um kind of had the same thoughts. But you know, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.840 I think he came independently to these thoughts, yeah, which was, Hey, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.520 there's something else going on here. We're calling it morpha 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.360 genetic fields. Uh. And this is this, like I said, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.120 this idea that there these invisible molds that we don't 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:29.040 fully get that gives things their eventual shape and that's 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.640 why they all look alike. Right. So so on the 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.920 astroom in the late seventies early eighties, Childrake was kind 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.680 of vibeing on this idea of there must be some 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.840 some some field, these morphic fields or whatever that guide 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:49.680 the development of something living into its mature form because 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.480 we just don't understand it. So hey, maybe that's just 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.679 as good an explanation as our current understanding, which is 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:01.040 really nonexistent. So um. He took it further though, and 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.800 he wrote a book and he took it further, he 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.040 wrote a book called A New Science of Life. It 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.240 was his first book, um, as far as I know, 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:09.880 at the very least, it was his first book that 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.200 really kind of made a splash. And in it, um 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.720 he he kind of said, these these morpha genetic fields, 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.439 we're gonna call him morphic fields now. And not only 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.840 do they they guide the morpha genesis of a living thing, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:28.280 they guide its behavior from from that moment on, from 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.600 the moment of conception onto I guess it's death. And 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.400 then when that thing dies, the life that it's led 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:39.319 will contribute to this morphic resonance that carries on to 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.360 the next generation and the generation beyond that. And so 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.000 you eventually have this long line of tulips that know 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.160 not only how to grow into the right shape, but 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.920 how to behave and do all the things that tulips 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:56.000 do because of all of the living tulips that came 0:12:56.040 --> 0:13:00.240 before it through this process of morphic residence. Yeah, and 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.880 not just like, uh, that tulip growing nearby at the 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.080 same time, but he said, what if it just was 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.760 across all of space and time, and the tulip in 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:16.959 Africa in the nineteenth century is has informed the tulip 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.640 in Florida in the year how to grow right, and 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:25.640 everyone went oh good hashish over there in India in 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:31.280 the nineteen seventies, right, Sheldrake, Right, So um, yeah, Well 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.080 we'll get to how it was received in a minute, 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.560 but let's you want to take a break and then 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.960 come back and kind of explain how how how he 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.080 says it works a little more. Yeah, but I also 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.040 think I totally spoiled how it was received. But that's okay, 0:13:42.080 --> 0:14:08.640 that's all right, man, all right, okay. So we're at 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.760 the point where um Rupert Sheldrake has published his book 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.440 A New Science of Life, and in it he's talking 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.840 about this morphic residence that basically says, um, anything that 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:25.960 self organizes, from a molecule to a giraffe, UM knows 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.800 how to take the shape or is guided by a 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.320 process that shapes it called morphic fields. But even more 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.840 than that, its behavior, it's future behavior is shaped by 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.800 these same morphic fields. All of the all of the 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.200 things that the giraffes that came before it learned and 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:47.000 new and saw and eight and figured out becomes this 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.680 kind of body of consciousness that's passed along to every 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.240 new giraffe that's born. Yeah, I think we should read 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.120 this quote. Okay, there's a great interview in Scientific American. Uh, 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.920 who was it? Was it? Who was it interviewing him? Like, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.640 can't remember now? Was it Rose? Now? I'm not sure 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.040 it was. It was a contemporary who was more you know, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.080 traditional mainstream science. But he again was like the Celdric guy, 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.720 he's got something, He's got equality alright. So here's how 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:20.360 Sheldrake himself answers the question of morphic residence. Morphic residence 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.800 is the influence of previous structures of activity on subsequent 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:28.400 similar structures of activity. Organized by morphic fields. It enables 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.440 memories to pass across both the space and time from 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.840 the past. The greater the similarity, the greater the influence 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.840 of morphic resonance. What this means is that all self 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.880 organizing systems like molecules, crystal cells, plants, animals, and animal 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:46.080 societies have a collective memory on which each individual draws 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.880 into which it contributes. And here's the key here, I 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.600 think he says, in its most general sense, this hypothesis 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.480 implies that the so called laws of nature are more 0:15:55.520 --> 0:16:00.720 like habits. Yet scientific establishment really particularly doesn't like that 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.760 last bit right there. Yeah, shel Drake just uh called 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.240 out the laws so called laws of nature. Right, So 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.360 there's something in there that kind of stuck out to 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.160 me that I was curious about. I couldn't find an 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.560 answer to. Is that, Um, he says, the greater the similarity, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.440 the greater the influence of morphic residents. But what is 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:23.000 the similarity, say, in like a giraffe embryo, that allows 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.080 the morphic residents of all the giraffes that came before 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:27.920 to be like this, this is the thing we need 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.200 to exert our influence on. Like what similarity attracts that 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.160 morphic residence. I took that to mean maybe not in 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.280 the case of giraffes, but in the case of like 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.320 different varieties of an orchid, like the more similar you know, 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.800 because that's why they are all different ones. Yeah, But 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.640 what is the initial similarity that that morphic field recognizes 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.680 in that specific kind of orchid that says, Oh, I'm 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.400 going to influence you. Or is it just we should 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.880 call him it just naturally happens. I don't know, But 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.000 these are the questions that you start to wonder about 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.720 out when you read sheldrake stuff. Which is I think 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:07.680 the reason why I like him. UM like he it 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.320 just makes you think you just start to think differently 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.160 than than just like it's it's d n A, Yeah, 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.680 where are you with this guy? Overall, I am sympathetic 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:22.680 to him because I admire that he has a tremendous 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.840 amount of courage uh and willingness to take tons of 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.760 flak and I'm sure in this day and age, lots 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:34.080 of hate and threats. Um. I think that I am 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.320 critical of the fact that he stopped publishing pure of 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.520 view papers all the way back in the mid eighties. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.960 That makes him currently less of a scientist and more 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.760 science communicator. But he's also kind of making up his 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.800 own science too, so I don't know if he qualifies 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.359 a science communicator, but I generally like him, and I 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:57.280 appreciate the role that he um he plays in this 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.040 this uh with science. What about you? I'm kind of 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:06.280 with you there. I admire his his chutzpah um because 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.560 I don't think that he is as charlatan out just 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.080 to make money selling books like some people think. I 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.240 don't either. I think he's a really smart guy who 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:18.000 gave has given his whole life to deep, deep thought 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.760 and research on this stuff, and I read some of 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:22.720 it and I think he may be onto something. I 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.159 read other stuff, and I think that sounds like magic, 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.320 right right. Uh. And we are men of science, you know, 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:34.119 we're we are podcasters, but we have always you know, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:39.080 roundly sided with the scientific method as sort of the baseline. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.040 And if you can't you can't satisfy the scientific method, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.439 then uh, we typically kind of pooh pooh it. But 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.560 there's something again about the way he's gone about it 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.520 that just doesn't seem like he's just some whacko out 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.720 there making stuff up. Yeah, And I think he also 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.199 kind of tunes into something that I dislike, which is, 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.520 you know, he's really critical and really challenges, you know, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.480 hardened dogma of a lot of the scientific community where 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.800 it's like, this is just how it is. Well why, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.080 I don't know, but I was taught that, but that's 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.360 just how it is, and stop questioning it. And I'm 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.320 really dislike that, and I like him that he challenges 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.600 that as well. Yeah, there's a rigidity in science that 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.320 turns us both off. I think, um so turned off 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.600 right now. I was gonna make a joke, but I'm 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.120 not going there. Because I'm in the mini crush mode. 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.600 So right on, right on, keep it, keep it, keep 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.600 it in all right. So let's let's look at a 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:40.160 few examples of claims that he makes about uh things 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.000 that he thinks morphi residents might explain in nature UM, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:51.200 specifically with animal behaviors. He says things like fish schooling UM, butterflies, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.800 monarchs flying thousands of miles to to uh the same place, 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:01.000 homing pigeons, um, termites in Africa that are blind, that build, 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.159 you know, a tin foot tall nest with ventilation structures. 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.880 He said, all this stuff or more importantly, and we'll 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.840 look at this a little closer in a minute. A 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.040 dog and their owner, and a dog anticipating their owner's return, 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.520 even though it might vary on what time that happens. 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.760 Like the sense that the dog knows and is waiting 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:25.600 by the door. He thinks that's all explained by morphic resonance. Yeah, 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.399 and I mean like it, it's curious in that, you know, 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.720 how does a how does a bee know after it 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.479 makes that wax ring in a honeycomb? How does it 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.280 no to to melt it into um a polygon shape 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.240 rather than just a circle, or like those termites, Like 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.800 why does a termite nest look almost identical to other 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.560 termite nests? You know, yeah, exactly, Like there's there's a 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.120 lot of behaviors that we can't quite explain that if 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.159 you do kind of buy into this morphic grows in 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.840 this idea, you could say, well, that's actually really really 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.040 interesting now. And this is a real good criticism of 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.680 morphic residents is you could also just as equally say 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:10.119 magic or god or whatever. There's not that no one's 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.040 proven that morphic resonance exists. This is just shel Drake saying, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.920 here's a good examples of what I'm talking about, this 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.560 morphic resonance stuff. Yeah, and this is kind of important too. 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.040 He talks about the fact that humans are not as 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.640 sensitive to this because and this is where he kind 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.200 of got me a little bit thinking. He says, we're 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:32.800 so distracted by technology and we don't need collective memory 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.920 of past humans to survive anymore. So that's why we're 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.399 not that's why we can't really sense these fields. And 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.679 I kind of disagree with that in some ways, Like 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.679 I think, if if it does exist, it's still is 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.880 it still survives in humans and things like think about 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:53.520 how how um easily the average human can pick a 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.479 snake out of the grass with with peripheral vision. Right, 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.639 I wasn't raised around snakes. My parents didn't drummed in 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.520 my into my head to be really wary of all snakes. 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.359 And yet I'm a pro at picking a snake out 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.600 in the grass with my peripheral Sure, And it's been 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.200 shown that that people can like pick a gun out 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.440 as quickly as they can't pick out snakes and spiders. 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:17.680 And we're really good at picking out snakes and spiders 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.520 in our environment. Um and uh that this would be 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.600 a pretty good example of that, if you ask me. 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:25.920 That is the most common descriptor I think when people 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.600 say what's Josh like, I'm was like, he drinks a 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:34.080 lot of beverages, coffee, water, you know, energy drinks. He Uh, 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.439 he's a hard worker. And man, you should see that 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:40.320 guy pick a snake out of his peripheral vision. It's uncanny. 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.719 It makes a gunshot ricochet sound like. I don't go 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.560 for a walk in the woods without him anymore. Sometimes 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.280 you're nice and carry me on your back when I 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:54.159 get tired. So, um, here's a couple of things with 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.119 human morphic residents. That this is where it gets a 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:01.960 little wacky to me. Um, he says. He claims that 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.240 a crossword puzzle is easier to complete later in the 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.800 day because of all the other people that had solved 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.800 it earlier in the day, and they are broadcasting this 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:17.520 morphick resonance out into the universe. I guess just their 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:20.639 general awareness of the answers. That gets a little wacky 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.320 to me. Yeah, a little. The other one is not 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:26.760 as wacky. Um. Is that feeling eyes in the back 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.800 of your head like you're being stared at? That's a thing? Uh, 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.720 he says, that's morphick fields. Yeah, that your morphic field 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:39.439 extends beyond your head and that it's sensitive and is 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:42.119 the first thing contacted by that person stare and it 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.880 lets you know basically that you're being stared at. Yeah, 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.040 this is very just he's going in the right direction. 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:49.879 Then I hear that, and I'm think, oh boy, that 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:52.560 is sounds a little wacky. I wrote another really good 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:56.600