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Speaker 1: Welcome a Trillions.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchunis.

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Speaker 1: Eric, we have a true innovator back on Trillions today

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Speaker 1: we do.

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Speaker 2: This is an episode we did where at the very end,

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Speaker 2: this particular issuer teased us with this particular ETF and

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Speaker 2: we knew it was no you know, it wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to be easy, but he somehow managed to put it

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Speaker 2: in registration, get it through the SEC, and it is

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Speaker 2: launching today.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about Matt Tuttle of Tuttle Capital Management.

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Speaker 1: Before he was on the program to talk about Inverse Tesla,

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Speaker 1: he teased a Jim Kramer ETF and that's what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today. Jim Kramer, of course, the host of

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Speaker 1: Mad Money on Seeing, which is a very entertaining show

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Speaker 1: to watch, filled with lots of stockpicking, lots of calls,

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Speaker 1: kind of active management at its finest. Eric, what about

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Speaker 1: the Jim Kramer idea? Do you love most?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look.

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Speaker 3: It.

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Speaker 2: The guy just has a knack for not being wrong,

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Speaker 2: but being spectacularly wrong on occasion. He's got somewhat of

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Speaker 2: reverse Midas touch, is how I put it. And I

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Speaker 2: think that it's all over Twitter in the Internet. There's many,

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Speaker 2: many examples. We'll go through some in the episode, but

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Speaker 2: I think he's just sort of late to the party

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Speaker 2: a lot. He'll get his loudest and most boisterous after

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Speaker 2: the price action is really good for like two or

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Speaker 2: three years. I think the price gives him confidence to

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Speaker 2: be loud. So he's almost like the last guy at

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Speaker 2: the party or on the bandwagon. And that's why he's

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Speaker 2: a decent reverse indicator of a big collapse or a

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Speaker 2: run up. And it seems to work, and it's you know, look,

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Speaker 2: we're all looking for a return, so why not try

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Speaker 2: something that looks to have a proven track record. So

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Speaker 2: this will be a fascinating experiment in the ETF world.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Joining us Matt Tuttle of Tuttle Capital Management, where

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Speaker 1: he's the CEO, as well as Katie Greifeld of Bloomberg News,

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Speaker 1: this time on Trillions saying money Matt, Katie, welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Trillions.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thrilled to be here, Matt, what took you so long?

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Speaker 4: So this was not easy? You know, when you launch

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Speaker 4: an ETF, first off, you've got to get a board

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Speaker 4: of a trust to say yes to it. Then you've

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Speaker 4: got to get it through the SEC, and boards in

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Speaker 4: SEC tend to be more conducive to like SMP four

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Speaker 4: ninety nine than they are to you know, going short

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Speaker 4: the recommendations of a media pundit. So, you know, convincing

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Speaker 4: a board it was a lot of fun, not as

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Speaker 4: hard as I thought it would be, but certainly not

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Speaker 4: a slam dunk. And then convincing the SEC. You know,

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Speaker 4: whenever you're doing a first of its kind type of ETF,

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Speaker 4: you know you're you're you're dealing with a larger pool

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Speaker 4: of people at the SEC than you are when you're

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Speaker 4: doing something simple. So took a lot longer than I

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Speaker 4: had wanted it to, but we're finally here, So that's.

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Speaker 1: All that matters. Who all was on that on that board.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just it's a board of directors of

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Speaker 4: the trust that you know has got to approve an ETF.

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Speaker 4: And it's like, you know, twenty people, a lot of

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Speaker 4: who have been in the industry for like five hundred years,

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Speaker 4: so you know, they're used to hearing pitches for normal stuff.

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Speaker 4: I would probably venture to guess they weren't used to

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Speaker 4: hearing pitches like like I gave them uh, so you know,

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Speaker 4: they had to kind of noodle on that a little

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Speaker 4: bit before saying, hey, let's let's do it.

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Speaker 1: And what was the pushback?

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Speaker 4: I'm really from the board level there, there wasn't. It

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Speaker 4: was just wrapping their head around it, you know. From

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Speaker 4: the SEC level. The biggest pushback we had was just

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Speaker 4: putting Kramer the name into the ETF, from the argument

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Speaker 4: of if you've got someone's name in an ETF, but

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Speaker 4: they're not actually involved in the running of it, which

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Speaker 4: I would argue he kind of is, but you know,

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Speaker 4: not not by choice. Then you know that's kind of

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Speaker 4: an issue. So we threw Tracker on the end of

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Speaker 4: it and took them a couple of weeks to think

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Speaker 4: about that, and they were cool, and I like Tracker

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Speaker 4: better anyway. So there we are.

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Speaker 1: So what's the official name.

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Speaker 4: So we've got the inverse Kramer Tracker and the long Cramer.

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Speaker 2: Tracker, and let's dig in here, so it's actively managed.

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Speaker 2: We'll go with s Jim, which is the inverse Kramer Tracker,

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Speaker 2: which I think is the one most people are interested in.

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Speaker 2: Explain how, oh it's gonna work. It's long short, right,

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Speaker 2: It's not just going long to stuff he doesn't like,

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Speaker 2: or short the stuff he does like it does. Both

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Speaker 2: can just go through how it's gonna actually function.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you are correct, it's gonna be long short,

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Speaker 4: And you know, probably the way it's gonna look and

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Speaker 4: smell is as the market is going down, it's gonna

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Speaker 4: be getting more and more long, and as the market's

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Speaker 4: going up, it's gonna get more and more short. So

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Speaker 4: basically what we're looking at is three things. We're looking

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Speaker 4: at when he comes on in the morning, which is

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Speaker 4: typically like eight forty five ish to ten. We're looking

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Speaker 4: at tweets he puts out during the day, and then

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Speaker 4: we're looking at mad money, and if he specifically says

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Speaker 4: either bye bye bye a stock, then we're gonna go

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Speaker 4: short that stock at the next practical moment. So if

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Speaker 4: it's mad money, we'll do it, you know, sometime around

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Speaker 4: the open. If he says it not forty five, then

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Speaker 4: you know, probably we'll do it at nine forty five.

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Speaker 4: And if he tells you he hates a stock or

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Speaker 4: sell sell sell or something like that, then we're going

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Speaker 4: to go along that name again at the next kind

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Speaker 4: of practical entry point.

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Speaker 5: So that sounds like a massive amount of work.

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Speaker 1: I was like that it sounds like a full time job.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like you're just that's like so many hours spent

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Speaker 3: watching this man on television.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so I've got there's three of us who

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Speaker 4: do it. You know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm the final arbiter. So sometimes you know

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Speaker 4: he's not one hundred percent clear. So you know, David

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Speaker 4: Faber might say, hey, Jim, what do you think about

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Speaker 4: alphabet earnings? And they'll sell they had a great quarter.

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Speaker 4: So I want to be the guy who's like, all right,

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Speaker 4: is that is that going to be enough? Or or

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Speaker 4: is that not? So I've got to watch it. I've

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Speaker 4: got a team who's watching it. I am very concerned

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Speaker 4: about the long term impact on my brain cells. You

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Speaker 4: know that that has not been adequately stuck ui. But

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Speaker 4: luckily my team is younger than me. So if you know,

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Speaker 4: I go off the sea screens, well but yeah, but

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Speaker 4: if I go off the deep end, you know, I've

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Speaker 4: got two people to kind of take up the mantle

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Speaker 4: and you know, put me in a home or something

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Speaker 4: like that.

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Speaker 1: So have you dabbled with this just on an ad

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Speaker 1: hoc basis, like just to see how it how it works.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So I mean I've been running this on paper

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Speaker 4: since January first, in expectation of the launch, because we

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Speaker 4: need to get the you know, have an actual portfolio

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Speaker 4: on launch day. So yeah, I've I've watched every episode

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Speaker 4: of Mad Money for the past two months. I can't

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Speaker 4: say it's getting any better. Yeah, And like you know,

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Speaker 4: walking over to the studio, I'm watching Kramer. You know

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Speaker 4: other things I would have rather been doing on the

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Speaker 4: walk over here, But it's I mean, I chose to

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Speaker 4: do it, So it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: So when you.

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Speaker 2: Go and you decide this is a convicted Kramer call,

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Speaker 2: this is where we're going to do the opposite, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of like Meta, remember when he kind of

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Speaker 2: almoll he cried a little bit on TV because he

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Speaker 2: had recommended Facebook for so many years. He loved Zuckerberg Andy,

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Speaker 2: and he had a Mia Kolpa. I was wrong. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: this stock is awful. That's when you would have bought right.

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Speaker 4: Because yeah, we would have gone along then, I know,

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Speaker 4: And I wished I wished we were up and running

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Speaker 4: because that would have been a great long.

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Speaker 2: So it's up sixty percent since then, which this is

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Speaker 2: why In my opinion, this ETF could could really do

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Speaker 2: some damage because all you need is a couple grand

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Speaker 2: slams for an ETF to overcome some wishy washy ones.

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Speaker 2: We've seen this in a couple of ETFs, and again

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Speaker 2: there's definitely grand slam potential here. Sixty percent in a

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Speaker 2: couple months is really good. I mean that could power

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Speaker 2: over three or four dogs.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, no offense, we may put you

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Speaker 4: out of business on all this bogel stuff.

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Speaker 3: Man, that tunnel just making shots all over the fat thing.

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Speaker 3: So you've been watching a lot of television for several

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Speaker 3: months now, how how big are these portfolios? How many

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Speaker 3: names are actually in them?

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Speaker 4: So my goal is to have you know, s GYM

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Speaker 4: between thirty and fifty names. I don't want to get

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Speaker 4: any above fifty because then you start diluting it and

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Speaker 4: l GM will be you know last typically you know,

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Speaker 4: we've been running it around thirty ish names or so,

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Speaker 4: and again I don't want to get any more than

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Speaker 4: that because you start really diluting the portfolio.

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Speaker 5: As of today, what are so?

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Speaker 4: So, what we want to do is we want to

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Speaker 4: equally wait the whole things you going to ask Yah yeah,

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Speaker 4: so we're going to equally weight it unless there's like

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Speaker 4: meme stocks in there, you know, I so then they'd

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Speaker 4: probably be a lower weight, just because I don't want,

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Speaker 4: you know, amc ripping fifty percent five minutes to to

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Speaker 4: mess anything up. But you know, it's it's the names

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Speaker 4: you'd you'd reckon. You're in the videos that he I've

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Speaker 4: guess named his dog. He's all over that one. You know,

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Speaker 4: we'd be long crypto because he still hates crypto, you know,

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Speaker 4: eli Lily is one that he keeps saying he loves,

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Speaker 4: you know, so stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: So if he doubles down and keeps coming back to things,

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Speaker 1: what do you do then.

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Speaker 4: So we're not going to add to it. But the

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Speaker 4: way it's working is every night he's there's new stocks,

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Speaker 4: and we're lopping off the old stocks. But if he

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Speaker 4: keeps doubling down on something like Lily is a name

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Speaker 4: that he mentioned, you know, on Mad Money, you know

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Speaker 4: what was it Tuesday night? But he also mentioned it,

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Speaker 4: you know, a week or so ago, So that's a

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Speaker 4: name we just wouldn't lop off. And if he keeps

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Speaker 4: mentioning it, we'll just keep it on there until he stops,

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Speaker 4: and we need that room for for something fresh, because

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Speaker 4: I want to keep it fresh.

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Speaker 1: So this is a little meta. What happens if he

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Speaker 1: mentions either of your tickers?

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Speaker 4: Then the universe probably explodes and we're all dead. So

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Speaker 4: it really doesn't matter. You know, none of us are here,

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Speaker 4: and so I'm really hoping he doesn't do that.

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Speaker 1: What happens though, for real?

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Speaker 4: I mean, we would ignore that. But I've had people

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Speaker 4: tell me, Hey, I'm calling in to mad Money and saying, Hey, Jim,

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Speaker 4: what do you think of s Jim? Like, all right,

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Speaker 4: do it.

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Speaker 2: I think he's too proud to actually say, go along,

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Speaker 2: es Jim, but it might be a fun joke. I

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Speaker 2: know he tweeted it when the filing hit. He had

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Speaker 2: a little tweet storm on this. At first, I think

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Speaker 2: he tried to ignore it, but then I could tell it.

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Speaker 2: A couple of days he was just lashing out a

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Speaker 2: little bit about it. And I think one of his

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Speaker 2: tweets was what if I just recommend es Jim, that'll

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Speaker 2: show him or something like that.

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Speaker 4: So he's had a few things to say.

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Speaker 5: Have you had a conversation with CNBC or with Jim?

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Speaker 4: So I have not. I've heard through the grapevine that

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Speaker 4: CNBC is angry and maybe a little bit scared, which

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Speaker 4: makes sense. I mean, if that's Jim from a performance

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Speaker 4: standpoints up like one hundred percent every year, that's probably

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Speaker 4: some explaining to do there. And you know, and David

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Speaker 4: Faber might you know, hey, Jim, you know what's going on?

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I would love to have a conversation with Kramer.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I know some of the other guys over there.

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Speaker 4: I know some people who know him. I've tried to

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Speaker 4: tried to arrange that, and they've been a little bit

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Speaker 4: frightened to arrange it. But I mean, hopefully one day.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing, though, he should embrace this. This is

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Speaker 2: his livelihood. He believes he's making great calls, and I

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Speaker 2: think one of his tweets early was bring it on,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I would have the same attitude. He

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Speaker 2: should want to see this fail and he has a

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Speaker 2: chance to be the hero. The thing, though, is this

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Speaker 2: idea of just just shouting out about stocks like every

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Speaker 2: other day. It really isn't a great way to invest

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Speaker 2: in general. It's very hard to beat the market with

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Speaker 2: this kind of run and gun shifting gears all the time,

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Speaker 2: especially if you're so bullish or bearish at the end

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Speaker 2: of the cycle. You know, if you get bearish on

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Speaker 2: Meta after it's had a really, really bad run, well,

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Speaker 2: of course that's not a great time. It's already passed.

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Speaker 2: Like with Crypto, he's so bearish and hating on Crypto

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Speaker 2: after it lost seventy percent, whereas you kind of want

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Speaker 2: to be bearished before that. And I think that's why

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Speaker 2: this has a shot to work legitimately. But I would

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Speaker 2: think he'd want to sort of prove it wrong. And

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Speaker 2: I think it'll be an interesting thing, and I think

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Speaker 2: it'll be tempting for him to tweet about it and

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Speaker 2: you know, challenge it, and that would probably be good

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Speaker 2: marketing for you.

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Speaker 4: I would not mind him talking about it all day

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Speaker 4: every day, yelling at me, calling me names whatever. You

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Speaker 4: know that Uh, I think that's that is called free

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Speaker 4: publicity that you know, money can't buy.

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Speaker 1: So what's your goal?

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Speaker 4: So, and Eric hit on on the main point. A

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Speaker 4: lot of people will think, oh, you know, this is

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Speaker 4: just gimmicky. It's not. I mean, this to me is

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Speaker 4: an awesome portfolio diversifier, because you know, I've noticed over

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Speaker 4: the years there's a factor out in the marketplace that

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Speaker 4: there's probably a technical term for it. If not, I'll

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Speaker 4: make it up. But it you know, for lack of

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Speaker 4: a better term, it's, you know, most investors are pretty

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Speaker 4: much clueless, and you know we see it with sentiment

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Speaker 4: numbers and analysts calls and trying to call the market.

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Speaker 4: And Kramer a as Eric said, has that might as touched,

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Speaker 4: but b he swings at every pitch and that's not

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Speaker 4: a criticism he has to. I mean, you can't call

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Speaker 4: mad money and be like, hey, Jim, what do you

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Speaker 4: think of Navidia? Oh you know that could go up

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Speaker 4: a lot, but it also could go down a lot.

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Speaker 4: Oh well yeah, thanks Jim. So by swinging at every pitch,

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Speaker 4: what you've got it? And again Eric hit on it.

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Speaker 4: You've got this portfolio that is shorting stuff, you know,

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Speaker 4: right at the top, buying stuff at the bottom. And

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Speaker 4: I mean people are looking for ways to diversify their

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Speaker 4: portfolio now that sixty forty had a let's say a

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Speaker 4: bad year last year. To me, this should be in

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Speaker 4: every portfolio and gonna be in mind.

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Speaker 3: Well, realistically, I have to imagine it would be mostly

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Speaker 3: grassroots retail though right like I can't see like a

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Speaker 3: financial advisor.

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Speaker 4: You know, ending yeah, a financial advisor. Maybe not, that

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Speaker 4: would have to come from their clients. What is interesting,

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Speaker 4: and it'll be interesting to see is on the institutional side.

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Speaker 4: You know, are there institutions fading what he's doing? And

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Speaker 4: just anecdotally, as I've been running this, I've seen some

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Speaker 4: weird stuff. Like he tweeted out about oil stocks a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago, and right after that tweet, oil

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Speaker 4: stocks had been going up. Right after that tweet, they

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Speaker 4: started selling off, and they sold off for like an

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Speaker 4: hour and then they stabilized. And I'm looking at that,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, was that a coincidence? I mean, maybe it's

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Speaker 4: as midas touch. I mean, he tweets it, they go down,

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Speaker 4: or are there institutions that have outgoed that? And you know,

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Speaker 4: is this a product that maybe you know, you've got

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Speaker 4: some of them sitting there watching Mad Money, saying, Hey,

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Speaker 4: Tuttle's gonna do it. Let him freaking burn his brain

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Speaker 4: cells and we'll just buy es Jim. I mean, we'll say.

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Speaker 2: One time, I think I saw him. There's a couple

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Speaker 2: of people on Twitter who track his calls, and they

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Speaker 2: pointed out that he said buying Navidia at like nine

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Speaker 2: to thirty am, and then he was hating on it

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Speaker 2: like four hours later. And I guess, how are you

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Speaker 2: going to deal with the flip flop? Or do you

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Speaker 2: wait till he like is completely bullish or bearish, say

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Speaker 2: two or three times in a row.

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Speaker 4: No, I mean, we'll flip flop with him. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, we're sitting there. I got a trader who's

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Speaker 4: in front one of his computer all day. So if

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Speaker 4: he says buying a video in the morning, we'll buy it.

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Speaker 4: And if at the end of the day he flip

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Speaker 4: flops and and it's a clear flip flop, then you know,

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Speaker 4: then then we're then we're out of that position. So

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Speaker 4: I have no problem with that. We're ready for that.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things that and I'm curious

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Speaker 2: to see how this worked because long short is the

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Speaker 2: one variable of this fund that is an unknown because

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Speaker 2: the market tends to push a lot of stocks up

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Speaker 2: or down depending on what the FED does. So if

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Speaker 2: you have long short, you're probably going to have a

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Speaker 2: lot of offsetting. And I agree that will give you

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Speaker 2: a nice lower volatility and a lack of correlation, so

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Speaker 2: you're almost you could be like an alternative that said

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Speaker 2: it might limit the shiny object potential. Did you think

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Speaker 2: about that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and maybe maybe not. So I'll give you an

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Speaker 4: example why we've been tracking it. So a lot of

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Speaker 4: people were coming up to me because Kramer was bullish

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Speaker 4: on the market in the first part of the year

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Speaker 4: and the market went up, and they're like, hey, Kramer

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Speaker 4: got that right. I was like, well, well no, look

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Speaker 4: at the details. What he was saying is don't buy Tech,

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Speaker 4: don't buy NASDAK, don't buy Fang, and buy all these

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Speaker 4: value stocks. So if the portfolio had been live, we

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Speaker 4: would have been you know, long Fang, long Tech, long,

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Speaker 4: a bunch of the Nasdaq names, and short some of

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Speaker 4: the value stuff, and that still would have done pretty well.

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Speaker 4: Because you know, he was completely wrong. Yeah, he was

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Speaker 4: right to be bullish, but he was wrong about what

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Speaker 4: to be bullish about. You know, but could that limit

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Speaker 4: you know, like, are we going to be up three

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Speaker 4: hundred percent in a year like we could be if

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Speaker 4: it was all long or long short? Probably not. But

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Speaker 4: if I'm going back to this whole theme of this

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Speaker 4: is a portfolio diversifier, then that's not really what I'm

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Speaker 4: looking for anyway, I mean, I you know, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to put a ten percent allocation in something that

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Speaker 4: could be up three hundred percent or could be down

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Speaker 4: like eighty percent.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious about the back testing here, because you

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Speaker 1: said he had been experimenting with this since January A.

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Speaker 1: How is it performed in that in that time, which

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Speaker 1: has been an interesting time in the market. And then like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, sort of impossible to go back test for

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Speaker 1: you know, three five years, but you know, how did

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Speaker 1: you attempt to do that?

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Speaker 4: So I probably can't comment on performance stuff that'd probably

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Speaker 4: not be a good thing, but you know, certainly there

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Speaker 4: would have been some names like coinbase was kind of

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Speaker 4: a double, you know, so there would have been some

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Speaker 4: interesting things in there. I know other people have done

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Speaker 4: back tests. I think the problem is, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 4: you don't always know when to enter because again, if

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Speaker 4: he says, you know, hey, Alphabet's quarter was good, one

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Speaker 4: guy might say, right, that's a bye. I may not,

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Speaker 4: And then when do you get out of something, you know,

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Speaker 4: because he may say, you know, hey, I love Meta,

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Speaker 4: and then he may never say I hate metah. So

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Speaker 4: I think it's very difficult. All the anecdotal stuff I've seen.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's some guys on Twitter who post some stuff.

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Speaker 4: I mean that all looks extremely interesting, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and obviously you don't get this type of reputation if

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Speaker 4: you're like the best stockpicker ever. So I'm not worried

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 2: So when we had the Twitter spaces back then, there

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Speaker 2: was a section of that call where some of the

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00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 2: listeners called in and asked you, and this is theory

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Speaker 2: here a lot when I tweet on this topic. Is

385
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Speaker 2: the reason he's so he's good at being spectacularly bad

386
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 2: is that he's actually in cahoots with his hedge fund

387
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Speaker 2: pals and this investing club you have to pay for.

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Speaker 2: And so what he does is he does the real

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Speaker 2: investing there, and then he purposely gives bad advice on

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Speaker 2: air so that the other people can go the opposite way.

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Speaker 2: I know that that's not to work. I know I

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Speaker 2: don't buy it, but that's I guess a conspiracy theory

393
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: out there. But I guess the question is the difference

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Speaker 2: between his picks on air and the club.

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Speaker 4: So and I've heard that theory. I mean, I had

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Speaker 4: a guy call me up a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 4: telling me that that's fact, and again who knows. It

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Speaker 4: does sound like a lot of work. To me, it

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Speaker 4: seems like a guy like that's got a lot to lose.

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Speaker 4: I don't buy it. I purposely am not a subscriber

401
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 4: to the club. I don't want to know what's in

402
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 4: that portfolio. I don't care. My sense is that that's

403
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 4: probably stuff that's fairly well thought out, long term in nature.

404
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 4: And what I care much more about is the stuff

405
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Speaker 4: he wakes up in the morning and wants to talk about,

406
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Speaker 4: or the stuff that you know, the retail guys are

407
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Speaker 4: calling in and want to ask him about. That's the

408
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 4: real interesting stuff, you know. I don't care about the club.

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00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 4: You know, if you want the club, you know, buy

410
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 4: the club. You know, to me, L Jim is better

411
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Speaker 4: because we're going to be, you know, we're going to

412
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Speaker 4: be a lot more active, you know. So if you're

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Speaker 4: a Cramer fan, I buy L Jim over the club.

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Speaker 1: What's the turnover going to be?

415
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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 4: Turnover's going to be a lot, you know, on a

417
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 4: typical mad money there's at least five things he's doing.

418
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 4: And so I'm adding, you know, five names and subtracting

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Speaker 4: five names.

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Speaker 1: How long do you think things will longest. Something could

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Speaker 1: stick around in a portfolio then.

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Speaker 4: I mean, again, it depends if he keeps talking about it,

423
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Speaker 4: it's going to stay. So like you know, bitcoin would

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Speaker 4: be something that would have stayed around for a while,

425
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Speaker 4: because every time you ask him about it, he's negative.

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Speaker 4: But typically stuff is going to cycle out and you know,

427
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Speaker 4: within two weeks.

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Speaker 3: I still can't get over the fact that you watch

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Speaker 3: so much TV. I mean, you have other funds to

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Speaker 3: manage as well. Is that a process that you could

431
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 3: see automating somehow? I mean, AI is so much in

432
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 3: the news right now. This actually seems like so place

433
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: where natural language processing could come in handy.

434
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, if AI gets to a point where

435
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 4: they can discern, I'll totally do it. It's not as bad.

436
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 4: I mean it's bad from the standpoint. I'd rather watch

437
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 4: other stuff, but I can't sleep past like four or

438
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 4: five in the morning, so I'll wake up, I'll watch,

439
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: you know, the Mad Money tape. The cool thing is

440
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 4: you can fast forward through the CEO interviews because that's

441
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 4: that's a total waste of time, So you get rid

442
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 4: of a lot of that stuff and then you're really

443
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 4: just watching from eight forty five to ten. You know, yeah,

444
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 4: there's other stuff going on, But I got three people

445
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 4: watching and but yeah, I mean if someone's got an

446
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 4: AI tool that can discern between they had a good

447
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 4: quarter and bye bye bye, I'm all for it.

448
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: So best case scenario, we have you back down in

449
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: a year, let's say, what do you think inflows are

450
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: gonna look like?

451
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 4: So I really have no idea. I think this is

452
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 4: the type of thing where you're gonna get a lot

453
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 4: of people people saying, hey, they're going to look at

454
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 4: it as a gimmick and say I'm going to buy

455
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 4: one hundred chairs. See what happens. I think my idea

456
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 4: of this being a portfolio diversifier is going to take

457
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 4: a while for people to be like, wait, you're right.

458
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 4: I mean, this is totally uncorrelated from everything else I

459
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: have in my portfolio. Again, what I don't know is

460
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 4: you know, institutions, you know, are they going to be

461
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 4: interested in this or not? So I mean I could

462
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 4: see this at twenty five million, I could see it

463
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 4: at five hundred million, and either one wouldn't surprise me.

464
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 4: I am very curious to see what this is in

465
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 4: a year because I really have no idea.

466
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: Eric, what do you think put your analyst out on.

467
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of times these kind of ETFs,

468
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: especially ones that are going right after direct retail performance,

469
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: will rule. I mean this one is special because of

470
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: the type of media attention it will probably get, specially

471
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: if it starts to outperform. I think the media pounces

472
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: on this. There's not I think there's a it's like

473
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: low hanging fruit for a story. Right. If this thing

474
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: starts to do well, well, that's where you get to

475
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: the five hundred million mark. I think if it's you know,

476
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: sideways or struggles, yeah, I could seem more like twenty

477
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 2: five million. So if you really break this down, it's

478
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 2: not that different than other trackers. Right, there's Hedge Fund,

479
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: thirteen F trackers. People like to track stuff. And what

480
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: ETFs really do which people forget is there make it

481
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: things convenient. So, as Matt just said, he's doing a

482
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: lot of legwork for you to be able to sort

483
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: of just have a little trade on that goes opposite

484
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: of this guy who is wrong a lot. So that

485
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: convenience will appeal to people if they're into this idea.

486
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I don't know, I would if I

487
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: had to bet, you know, in a year, I could

488
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: see this at about one hundred million. That'd be my guess.

489
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 2: But you know, we will see be interesting the long

490
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: Cramer tracker that's also long short. If that happens to

491
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: work well that get assets. I don't know, because obviously

492
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: the sentiment is much more on the other side. But

493
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: performance is a big deal, So that'll be The one

494
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: sort of weird variable is if Elgem starts working and

495
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 2: maybe the fact that you launched this it completely turned

496
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: around his philosophy and he starts being right all the time.

497
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 4: I don't know, that would be interesting. I don't think so.

498
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 4: I don't think you're teach an old dog new tricks.

499
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 4: But I'm open to everything.

500
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: Matt.

501
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 5: I want to go back to one thing you said.

502
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 3: You know, your belief is that this is something that

503
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: would work in a lot of portfolios as a diversifier,

504
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 3: that it's not a gimmick. But I am curious now

505
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 3: that you're launching the Creamer Suite, you also have you know,

506
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 3: the Kathy woodsweet that you were behind. Do you worry

507
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: at all about getting a reputation for gimmicky products?

508
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 4: I mean a little bit, but you know, at the

509
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 4: end of the day. You know, I'm a trader at heart,

510
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: so I want to design products that I'm sitting there saying, wow,

511
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 4: I want this, and so like you know, Sark for example,

512
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 4: to me, that's just a better hedge if you are

513
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 4: negative about the market. I'd rather be short Teledoc and

514
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 4: rope Coup than Apple and Microsoft. And you know, here,

515
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 4: I've been wanting to figure out a way. I mean,

516
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: how do you, you know, monetize the idea that that

517
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 4: investors are clueless and take the other side of it.

518
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 4: And to me, this is just a better way to

519
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 4: do that.

520
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: Okay, I had to say, I think this is a

521
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: really fun idea. Do you think is there any more

522
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: fun products in the market than this?

523
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 4: Oh? No, this is the most fun product in the

524
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 4: market by far, until I come up with the next one,

525
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: which we'll say. I'm always thinking.

526
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: It's like when you, you know, write books, it's like,

527
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: what do you do next? What do you do next?

528
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: And it's like I'm here, Joel.

529
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: I have the next big fun idea, animal shares, where

530
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: each ETF is based on an animal that picks the stock.

531
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: So if you're into porpoises, the porpoise picks the stocks.

532
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: This is based on that sort of monkey throwing a

533
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: dart theory, and it's just all about animals picking stocks

534
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: and you get to pick which animal does the picking

535
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 2: for you.

536
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 5: I want to crow a crow.

537
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll test it with my dog, see, I

538
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 4: mean he likes to sit in front of my Bloomberg terminal.

539
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 2: There have been people kicking around the sort of monkey

540
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: dart and random idea for years, but I thought it

541
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: might be cool to expand that to some different animals.

542
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: I got it.

543
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: I gotta say Matt's Kramer products seem a little bit

544
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: more successful than the animal one area.

545
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm thinking probably.

546
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 2: People love animals show kids, and animals will always upstage everybody,

547
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: so all right, but yeah, that's probably more of a

548
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 2: half joke than a real product. But all right, this

549
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: is probably going to be the one for a while.

550
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: Matt. We look forward to seeing how these perform, and

551
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: congratulations on putting in a lot of hard work to

552
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: bring this idea to market. Thank you, Matt Katie, thanks

553
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: so much for joining us on trillions.

554
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 5: Thanks for having us, thanks for having.

555
00:28:53,400 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: Me, Thanks for listening to Trillions. Until next time, you

556
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com,

557
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever else you'd like to listen.

558
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm

559
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: at Joel Webber Show. He's at Eric Balcuna's. This episode

560
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson.

561
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: Bye