1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:22,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Eddie here, before we get started, I wanted 2 00:00:22,996 --> 00:00:24,876 Speaker 1: you to know that you can listen to Car Show 3 00:00:24,956 --> 00:00:29,276 Speaker 1: ad free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. You'll also 4 00:00:29,316 --> 00:00:32,796 Speaker 1: get access to detours, bonus episodes of Car Show, where 5 00:00:32,836 --> 00:00:37,676 Speaker 1: we go for extended drives, play outtakes, and more fine 6 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:40,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on the Car Show page, in Apple Podcasts, 7 00:00:41,156 --> 00:00:48,996 Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot Fm. What the hell were they 8 00:00:49,076 --> 00:00:53,076 Speaker 1: doing with a car on the goddamn moon? You're on 9 00:00:53,316 --> 00:01:00,956 Speaker 1: the Moon already. Isn't that far enough? There is no 10 00:01:01,036 --> 00:01:03,276 Speaker 1: more male idea in the history of the universe than 11 00:01:03,316 --> 00:01:09,516 Speaker 1: why don't we fly up to the Moon and drive around? Well, exactly, Jerry, 12 00:01:10,236 --> 00:01:13,316 Speaker 1: why shouldn't we drive around on the moon. By sending 13 00:01:13,316 --> 00:01:17,676 Speaker 1: those lunar rovers into space, NASA made it clear getting 14 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:21,716 Speaker 1: to the Moon wasn't far enough. Once up there, we 15 00:01:21,796 --> 00:01:27,836 Speaker 1: had to keep going. There are three lunar rovers, three 16 00:01:27,836 --> 00:01:30,916 Speaker 1: American cars up there on the Moon right now. They 17 00:01:30,956 --> 00:01:35,036 Speaker 1: were disgorged from the bellies of Apollo fifteen, sixteen and 18 00:01:35,196 --> 00:01:39,156 Speaker 1: seventeen's lunar modules, and we left them at Hadley, Apennine, 19 00:01:39,596 --> 00:01:43,916 Speaker 1: the Descartes Highlands and Taurus lit Row, respectively. In the 20 00:01:44,036 --> 00:01:48,596 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, because we were litter bugs back then, also 21 00:01:48,836 --> 00:01:51,756 Speaker 1: because getting them down would have been almost as impossible 22 00:01:51,996 --> 00:01:55,436 Speaker 1: as getting them up there in the first place. The 23 00:01:55,516 --> 00:01:58,156 Speaker 1: rovers purpose was to explore the surface of the Moon 24 00:01:58,436 --> 00:02:02,036 Speaker 1: and collect geological samples. NASA wanted to see how the 25 00:02:02,036 --> 00:02:05,956 Speaker 1: Moon was formed. The Rovers were like, yeah, getting to 26 00:02:05,996 --> 00:02:08,996 Speaker 1: the Moon is cool and all, but here, hold my beer. 27 00:02:11,556 --> 00:02:14,596 Speaker 1: Lunar exploration is an idea that hasn't really left us, 28 00:02:15,036 --> 00:02:17,636 Speaker 1: even though we stopped going to the Moon fifty years ago, 29 00:02:18,356 --> 00:02:20,516 Speaker 1: but NASA plans to go back by the year twenty 30 00:02:20,556 --> 00:02:24,716 Speaker 1: twenty five as part of a project called Artemis. It's 31 00:02:24,756 --> 00:02:28,476 Speaker 1: also on many billionaires to do lists like Ancient Rome. 32 00:02:28,796 --> 00:02:32,236 Speaker 1: Our biggest ideas are now funded by ultra rich shopkeepers 33 00:02:32,276 --> 00:02:42,516 Speaker 1: and stupid looking cowboy hats. Two one honestly human and 34 00:02:42,676 --> 00:02:47,396 Speaker 1: amazing what we just saw for the team at Blue 35 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:50,076 Speaker 1: Origin and Jeff Bezos takes the first ride, so I 36 00:02:50,076 --> 00:02:52,716 Speaker 1: think it's pretty exciting. I think it opens up or 37 00:02:52,756 --> 00:02:57,596 Speaker 1: funded by his arch nemesis, evil genius spacebro Musk. You 38 00:02:57,716 --> 00:03:00,396 Speaker 1: got a contract with the Defense Department to do a 39 00:03:00,476 --> 00:03:04,716 Speaker 1: lunar lander if rom NASA from NASA, which is being 40 00:03:04,716 --> 00:03:08,436 Speaker 1: disputed by Jeff Bezos. How do you feel about that? 41 00:03:08,716 --> 00:03:11,476 Speaker 1: I think he should put more of his energy into 42 00:03:12,556 --> 00:03:18,276 Speaker 1: getting to orbit. You cannot seat the moon. Okay, do 43 00:03:18,356 --> 00:03:22,396 Speaker 1: you know how good your lawyers are? Yeah, boys will 44 00:03:22,436 --> 00:03:27,316 Speaker 1: be boys. Meanwhile, NASA did it already and left proof 45 00:03:27,396 --> 00:03:33,116 Speaker 1: up there in those three lonely rovers. The lunar rovers 46 00:03:33,116 --> 00:03:38,236 Speaker 1: were compact miracles of research and engineering, imagination and blind faith. 47 00:03:39,196 --> 00:03:43,996 Speaker 1: They were perilous things animated by the spirit of ceaseless exploration. 48 00:03:45,996 --> 00:03:51,396 Speaker 1: They were exploration vehicles squared. They were the Moonshots Moonshot. 49 00:03:54,596 --> 00:03:57,876 Speaker 1: I'm Eddie Alterman, and this is Car Show, my podcast 50 00:03:57,916 --> 00:04:01,556 Speaker 1: about how cars reflect who we are. The lunar rovers 51 00:04:01,556 --> 00:04:07,276 Speaker 1: count as cars definitely. They had four wheels, bidirectional steering, 52 00:04:07,676 --> 00:04:12,196 Speaker 1: and lots of communications puipment. They were battery powered, making them, 53 00:04:12,236 --> 00:04:17,036 Speaker 1: in a manner of speaking, the first ev off rods. Moreover, 54 00:04:17,356 --> 00:04:20,356 Speaker 1: as we'll see in this episode, the winning rover design 55 00:04:20,476 --> 00:04:23,916 Speaker 1: made it through the approvals process because it was so familiar, 56 00:04:24,396 --> 00:04:28,716 Speaker 1: so carlike. It was a concrete and reassuring connection to 57 00:04:28,836 --> 00:04:31,796 Speaker 1: what was already known, and when you're dealing with the 58 00:04:31,836 --> 00:04:35,476 Speaker 1: many unknowns of a moon mission, a little familiarity is comforting. 59 00:04:37,836 --> 00:04:41,396 Speaker 1: But beyond all that, there is this. If cars are 60 00:04:41,436 --> 00:04:46,196 Speaker 1: about exploration, freedom and travel, then the Lunar rovers might 61 00:04:46,236 --> 00:05:08,756 Speaker 1: be the carrious cars in the history of mankind. We 62 00:05:08,876 --> 00:05:11,236 Speaker 1: loved to drive our subjects here on the show, but 63 00:05:11,396 --> 00:05:14,556 Speaker 1: from time to time will encounter vehicles where a drive 64 00:05:14,756 --> 00:05:17,236 Speaker 1: is out of the budget. So we'll do the next 65 00:05:17,276 --> 00:05:20,796 Speaker 1: best thing. We'll talk with people close to the Rover project, 66 00:05:21,636 --> 00:05:25,156 Speaker 1: people like Earl Swift, who wrote Across the Airless Wilds, 67 00:05:25,556 --> 00:05:28,316 Speaker 1: which is, in my humble opinion, the definitive book on 68 00:05:28,356 --> 00:05:31,596 Speaker 1: the Lunar rovers. Thank you so much for having me. Swifts. 69 00:05:31,596 --> 00:05:34,916 Speaker 1: Across the Airless Wilds chronicles the unlikely origins of the 70 00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:38,476 Speaker 1: Lunar Rover project, which was first streamed up by Werner 71 00:05:38,596 --> 00:05:42,916 Speaker 1: von Braun. Von Braun was born into aristocracy. His father 72 00:05:43,036 --> 00:05:46,676 Speaker 1: was part of the Weimar Republic. As a teenager, von 73 00:05:46,716 --> 00:05:51,116 Speaker 1: Braun became obsessed with rockets, and the German government took notice. 74 00:05:51,916 --> 00:05:54,916 Speaker 1: They paid for him to further his studies. Von Braun, 75 00:05:55,276 --> 00:05:58,596 Speaker 1: a card carrying member of the SS, would go on 76 00:05:58,676 --> 00:06:03,476 Speaker 1: to develop advanced weapons systems for the Nazis. America covertly 77 00:06:03,476 --> 00:06:06,476 Speaker 1: patriated him after World War Two as part of Project 78 00:06:06,476 --> 00:06:10,076 Speaker 1: paper Clip. In the States, he worked on rocket development, 79 00:06:10,396 --> 00:06:12,956 Speaker 1: and he would eventually become director of the Marshall Space 80 00:06:12,956 --> 00:06:17,116 Speaker 1: Flight Center in Alabama. There he developed a Saturn V 81 00:06:17,276 --> 00:06:20,156 Speaker 1: rocket that got us to the Moon, but not before 82 00:06:20,236 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 1: guest starring in promotional films about space flight for Disneyland. 83 00:06:25,076 --> 00:06:28,196 Speaker 1: The training methods for future space flight and the special 84 00:06:28,236 --> 00:06:31,356 Speaker 1: equipment needed for survival are much like those of present 85 00:06:31,396 --> 00:06:34,996 Speaker 1: high altitude flying, and the experiments we are making today 86 00:06:35,236 --> 00:06:38,076 Speaker 1: are helping us to solve the more complex problems to come. 87 00:06:39,196 --> 00:06:42,276 Speaker 1: Take the present days. Von Bronze in the running with 88 00:06:42,436 --> 00:06:47,516 Speaker 1: movie star codemaker and inventor Hetty Lamar for Craziest resume 89 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:53,796 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. In the early fifties, he participated 90 00:06:53,796 --> 00:06:58,516 Speaker 1: in a series of stories in Collier's magazine. The series 91 00:06:58,556 --> 00:07:03,036 Speaker 1: explored the inevitability of the American entry into space. In 92 00:07:03,116 --> 00:07:06,316 Speaker 1: the Collier series, von Braun laid out his vision for 93 00:07:06,396 --> 00:07:09,796 Speaker 1: how we would get around on the Moon's surface. How 94 00:07:09,836 --> 00:07:12,596 Speaker 1: wild is it that the idea of lunar mobility should 95 00:07:12,636 --> 00:07:15,436 Speaker 1: spring from von Bron's mind and onto the pages of 96 00:07:15,436 --> 00:07:19,196 Speaker 1: a magazine, and a general interest magazine at that, not 97 00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:25,036 Speaker 1: popular science, not even popular mechanics Collier's Weekly. That's akin 98 00:07:25,116 --> 00:07:27,516 Speaker 1: to laying out a vision for nuclear fission in a 99 00:07:27,556 --> 00:07:31,676 Speaker 1: special section of people. Vron Brown was speculating about a 100 00:07:31,756 --> 00:07:35,796 Speaker 1: visit to a place that people a lot more learned 101 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 1: about the celestial bodies. They knew way more than he did, 102 00:07:40,476 --> 00:07:44,316 Speaker 1: but that didn't stop him from dreaming. Dominating von Braun's 103 00:07:44,396 --> 00:07:49,396 Speaker 1: vision were, as Swift calls them, these hulking, multitn caterpillar 104 00:07:49,436 --> 00:07:54,236 Speaker 1: tractor sized moon cars. Von Braun imagined them traveling hundreds 105 00:07:54,236 --> 00:07:57,596 Speaker 1: of miles across the lunar surface, carrying small squadrons of 106 00:07:57,636 --> 00:08:03,356 Speaker 1: astronauts on exploratory missions. Of course, that's not how it 107 00:08:03,476 --> 00:08:06,916 Speaker 1: ended up. There were several rover ideas floating around NASSA 108 00:08:06,956 --> 00:08:09,876 Speaker 1: at that time, and they all contributed to what ultimately 109 00:08:09,916 --> 00:08:13,476 Speaker 1: wound up tucked into the bellies of those three lunar modules. 110 00:08:13,596 --> 00:08:19,156 Speaker 1: In fact, NASA's manned spacecraft vision for lunar exploration stayed 111 00:08:19,156 --> 00:08:22,956 Speaker 1: true to that early vision. The first lunar rovers were 112 00:08:23,516 --> 00:08:28,156 Speaker 1: expected to be pressurized and capable of traveling long distances, 113 00:08:28,276 --> 00:08:30,356 Speaker 1: and we're going to kind of double as shelter as 114 00:08:30,396 --> 00:08:33,996 Speaker 1: well as transportation. The astronauts wouldn't live in a lunar module. 115 00:08:34,556 --> 00:08:37,636 Speaker 1: They'd get out of the module, step into this big 116 00:08:38,316 --> 00:08:40,756 Speaker 1: lunar rover and they drive around and live in that 117 00:08:40,876 --> 00:08:44,516 Speaker 1: thing for a couple of weeks and then fly home. Meanwhile, 118 00:08:44,676 --> 00:08:48,396 Speaker 1: and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, another crew of 119 00:08:48,436 --> 00:08:50,796 Speaker 1: engineers was working on a different vision for a mission 120 00:08:50,836 --> 00:08:54,036 Speaker 1: to the Moon, and there you see a much more 121 00:08:54,076 --> 00:08:57,756 Speaker 1: simplified concept of of what a rover would look like. 122 00:08:57,796 --> 00:08:59,956 Speaker 1: Of course, they were they had to be simplified. They 123 00:08:59,956 --> 00:09:02,036 Speaker 1: were very small, they were they were robotic, and they 124 00:09:02,076 --> 00:09:05,516 Speaker 1: were going to land on unmanned probes and then explore 125 00:09:05,556 --> 00:09:08,556 Speaker 1: the lunar's surface for good places for manned language to occur. 126 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:14,676 Speaker 1: Both of those concepts you see one group of engineers 127 00:09:14,716 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 1: at General Motors. It's kind kind of working both concepts 128 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:23,076 Speaker 1: at the same time. What we wound up with was 129 00:09:23,076 --> 00:09:26,516 Speaker 1: sort of a mashup of the enclosed Vombrounian idea of 130 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:29,196 Speaker 1: what the lunar rover would look like and the pared 131 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:34,956 Speaker 1: down Jet Propulsion Labs concept more like a beach buggy. Interestingly, 132 00:09:35,356 --> 00:09:37,356 Speaker 1: although we think of the Moon as an extension of 133 00:09:37,396 --> 00:09:41,116 Speaker 1: American manifest destiny, the guys leading the development of the 134 00:09:41,156 --> 00:09:45,396 Speaker 1: lunar rover weren't born here. Von Braun, as we mentioned, 135 00:09:45,636 --> 00:09:49,316 Speaker 1: was German, and while von Braun was working for NASA, 136 00:09:49,516 --> 00:09:53,036 Speaker 1: two Europeans working for General Motors were also key to 137 00:09:53,076 --> 00:09:56,236 Speaker 1: the rover story. They were there at the beginning working 138 00:09:56,236 --> 00:10:00,316 Speaker 1: on everything from rough rover prototypes to the final vehicles 139 00:10:00,356 --> 00:10:03,236 Speaker 1: still sitting on the moon. The two engineers at General 140 00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:07,156 Speaker 1: Motors who had the single prints all over this project 141 00:10:07,236 --> 00:10:10,796 Speaker 1: from the beginning guide named Qui Becker from Poland and 142 00:10:11,276 --> 00:10:19,476 Speaker 1: his right hand man parents Frank Pablix, who was from Hungary. 143 00:10:20,716 --> 00:10:24,476 Speaker 1: They came over in Becker's case right after the war, 144 00:10:24,756 --> 00:10:28,836 Speaker 1: and Pablix's case in the mid nineteen sixties after the 145 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:34,236 Speaker 1: unsuccessful Hungarian uprising, and became Americans and became the guiding 146 00:10:34,276 --> 00:10:38,916 Speaker 1: spirits of the whole project. Becker and Pavlicks were not 147 00:10:38,996 --> 00:10:42,996 Speaker 1: plugging away in the frozen hinterlands of Detroit, though. These 148 00:10:43,036 --> 00:10:47,236 Speaker 1: guys got the plumb assignment go to California and dream 149 00:10:47,276 --> 00:10:52,156 Speaker 1: stuff up. Santa Barbara was home to GM's defense research labs, 150 00:10:52,516 --> 00:10:57,036 Speaker 1: which focused on winning military business. This tells you something 151 00:10:57,076 --> 00:11:01,316 Speaker 1: important about General Motors at that time. They were so omnipotent, 152 00:11:01,796 --> 00:11:04,796 Speaker 1: so vital to and in meshed with our country's success 153 00:11:05,396 --> 00:11:08,356 Speaker 1: that they had their own experimental department full of these 154 00:11:08,436 --> 00:11:11,876 Speaker 1: austral hung Arean engineers who were there to theorize about 155 00:11:11,876 --> 00:11:14,796 Speaker 1: blowing things up. They weren't there to get their hands 156 00:11:14,836 --> 00:11:18,516 Speaker 1: dirty and actually produce something. Another division would handle that. 157 00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:26,116 Speaker 1: But when push came to shove, they did produce something. 158 00:11:26,996 --> 00:11:29,836 Speaker 1: The idea that we went from imagining the basic notion 159 00:11:29,876 --> 00:11:32,156 Speaker 1: of how to get to the Moon in nineteen sixty 160 00:11:32,156 --> 00:11:35,276 Speaker 1: two to driving around on it just nine years later. 161 00:11:36,316 --> 00:11:39,316 Speaker 1: That's nuts. It takes me nine years just to clean 162 00:11:39,356 --> 00:11:43,076 Speaker 1: my basement. The first thing Becker did was trying to 163 00:11:43,076 --> 00:11:46,636 Speaker 1: work out the soil composition on the Moon, not the terrain, 164 00:11:47,116 --> 00:11:50,276 Speaker 1: but the lurine. You know, if you've ever done munting 165 00:11:50,276 --> 00:11:53,116 Speaker 1: in a jeep, or you've raced motocross or just ridden 166 00:11:53,156 --> 00:11:55,796 Speaker 1: a mountain bike, you owe something of the experience to 167 00:11:55,916 --> 00:11:59,356 Speaker 1: Greg Becker because he invented the branch of engineering that 168 00:11:59,476 --> 00:12:04,036 Speaker 1: studies the relationship of vehicles to the soils over which 169 00:12:04,036 --> 00:12:07,796 Speaker 1: they travel. So that takes some tread design vehicle weight 170 00:12:08,076 --> 00:12:12,636 Speaker 1: versus type of ground uron Every factor that comes into 171 00:12:12,636 --> 00:12:15,396 Speaker 1: plays to whether you can gain traction and go somewhere 172 00:12:15,436 --> 00:12:19,596 Speaker 1: off road goes back to Greg Becker. Thus was born 173 00:12:19,676 --> 00:12:23,156 Speaker 1: the science of terra mechanics, the study of wheeled or 174 00:12:23,196 --> 00:12:27,916 Speaker 1: track vehicles across terrain. But Becker wasn't designing a vehicle 175 00:12:27,996 --> 00:12:31,116 Speaker 1: for just any dirt. It's hard to get more off 176 00:12:31,196 --> 00:12:35,756 Speaker 1: road than the Moon. How did Greg Becker know what 177 00:12:36,036 --> 00:12:39,956 Speaker 1: was up there? Well, that's that is. Of course, no 178 00:12:39,996 --> 00:12:42,916 Speaker 1: one knew what was up there. The only thing that 179 00:12:42,956 --> 00:12:45,316 Speaker 1: was known about the Moon's surface was what could be 180 00:12:45,316 --> 00:12:48,636 Speaker 1: seen through telescopes, and given the telescopes of the day, 181 00:12:48,676 --> 00:12:51,356 Speaker 1: that wasn't a lot. But they made a number of assumptions. 182 00:12:51,436 --> 00:12:53,596 Speaker 1: Number one thing, you know, there wasn't believed to be 183 00:12:53,636 --> 00:12:57,236 Speaker 1: any water on the Moon. Therefore you're dealing with a dry, 184 00:12:57,236 --> 00:13:01,876 Speaker 1: granular soil. And wasn't there a fear that the surface 185 00:13:01,996 --> 00:13:08,476 Speaker 1: was so soft, like a talc softness, that anything would 186 00:13:08,516 --> 00:13:11,836 Speaker 1: sort of sink into it. Well, there was a There 187 00:13:11,876 --> 00:13:15,356 Speaker 1: was a scientist named Thomas Gold who was really his 188 00:13:15,436 --> 00:13:18,316 Speaker 1: comments on it were taking out of context. He in 189 00:13:18,356 --> 00:13:23,076 Speaker 1: a nineteen fifty five or fifty six paper, had postulated 190 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:28,596 Speaker 1: that what we saw as seas on the lunar's surface 191 00:13:28,636 --> 00:13:32,276 Speaker 1: were actually settled dust in places that could be thousands 192 00:13:32,316 --> 00:13:37,036 Speaker 1: of feet thick, and really was reporters of the day 193 00:13:37,196 --> 00:13:41,196 Speaker 1: who then kind of took that in extrapolated from it 194 00:13:41,756 --> 00:13:44,116 Speaker 1: this notion that if a spacecraft came down on the 195 00:13:44,196 --> 00:13:46,156 Speaker 1: lunar surface, it might finish out of side, it might 196 00:13:46,436 --> 00:13:49,996 Speaker 1: sink into this dry lunar quicksand never to be seen again. 197 00:13:50,956 --> 00:13:55,036 Speaker 1: But Becker and Pavlix were undeterred. They experimented with all 198 00:13:55,076 --> 00:13:59,436 Speaker 1: sorts of prototypes, and it was Becker's belief that by 199 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:03,556 Speaker 1: grinding up volcanic rock and similar materials he could fake it, 200 00:14:04,076 --> 00:14:07,076 Speaker 1: and so he and Pablix did just that. They used 201 00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:12,996 Speaker 1: a number of substitutes, these flour white flour, and wound 202 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:15,036 Speaker 1: open a bit of a rat problem in Santa Barbara 203 00:14:15,076 --> 00:14:18,036 Speaker 1: because of that. But Pavlex and Becker came up with 204 00:14:18,036 --> 00:14:21,716 Speaker 1: one design for a rober bit was composed of screws 205 00:14:21,716 --> 00:14:24,996 Speaker 1: basically that would just burrow through a really soft, light, 206 00:14:25,116 --> 00:14:30,036 Speaker 1: fluffy surface. But it became clear that over a couple 207 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:34,236 Speaker 1: of years of experimentation that the mode of travel that 208 00:14:34,356 --> 00:14:36,876 Speaker 1: made the most sense when you looked at complexity and 209 00:14:36,996 --> 00:14:39,996 Speaker 1: weight versus what you were likely to find on the 210 00:14:40,076 --> 00:14:47,316 Speaker 1: learner's surface was the wheel, the rover's wheel. It's engineering 211 00:14:47,316 --> 00:14:50,476 Speaker 1: and materials would be key to this whole project and 212 00:14:50,516 --> 00:14:54,236 Speaker 1: would ultimately land Boeing in GM the final NASA contract. 213 00:14:55,036 --> 00:14:57,556 Speaker 1: That wheel would take time to work out using the 214 00:14:57,636 --> 00:15:01,476 Speaker 1: new science of Tera mechanics, but the number of wheels 215 00:15:02,356 --> 00:15:05,316 Speaker 1: that was something Becker and Pablox thought they knew from 216 00:15:05,316 --> 00:15:09,436 Speaker 1: the start. The earliest GM proposals by Becker and Ablets 217 00:15:09,756 --> 00:15:13,076 Speaker 1: were six wheels, all wheel drive, which they found was 218 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:17,396 Speaker 1: the perfect setup to get over practically anything. Wasn't there 219 00:15:17,876 --> 00:15:22,476 Speaker 1: a variety of articulation types of the body, Well, it 220 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:27,156 Speaker 1: absolutely essential to the six wheel prototype that they developed 221 00:15:27,236 --> 00:15:30,356 Speaker 1: was the fact that it had a completely flexible frame. 222 00:15:30,436 --> 00:15:32,996 Speaker 1: You know, if it came to a block ahead, it 223 00:15:33,076 --> 00:15:35,876 Speaker 1: could climb it first with the front wheels kind of 224 00:15:36,116 --> 00:15:39,356 Speaker 1: you know, pulling their way up as the back two 225 00:15:39,396 --> 00:15:42,076 Speaker 1: sets pushed. And then once the front wheels got to 226 00:15:42,116 --> 00:15:45,276 Speaker 1: the top of the obstacle, you'd have the front wheels 227 00:15:45,276 --> 00:15:48,196 Speaker 1: pulling while the back wheels pushed and the middle wheels 228 00:15:48,236 --> 00:15:51,756 Speaker 1: clawed their way up. And then finally you'd have two 229 00:15:51,796 --> 00:15:54,316 Speaker 1: sets of wheels up front pulling while that last set 230 00:15:54,316 --> 00:15:56,636 Speaker 1: of wheels went over. So why did they go to 231 00:15:56,716 --> 00:15:59,276 Speaker 1: four wheels. They went to four wheels because they didn't 232 00:15:59,276 --> 00:16:02,156 Speaker 1: have a choice. They were still pushing a six wheeled 233 00:16:02,596 --> 00:16:05,996 Speaker 1: rover as late as nineteen the fall of nineteen sixty seven, 234 00:16:06,556 --> 00:16:13,556 Speaker 1: at which point NASA's budget was slap and the agency 235 00:16:13,636 --> 00:16:16,156 Speaker 1: basically threw up at sands and said, we're not going 236 00:16:16,196 --> 00:16:17,876 Speaker 1: to be able to afford to the cinder or rover 237 00:16:18,036 --> 00:16:21,876 Speaker 1: to the Moon. Becker and Pavlik's original rover concepts relied 238 00:16:21,916 --> 00:16:24,076 Speaker 1: on two rockets to reach the surface of the Moon, 239 00:16:24,956 --> 00:16:29,236 Speaker 1: one carrying astronauts and another carrying the hulking six wheeled rover. 240 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:32,436 Speaker 1: And with the budget cut that flew out the window. 241 00:16:32,596 --> 00:16:34,796 Speaker 1: No Apollo mission was going to get two rockets. But 242 00:16:35,676 --> 00:16:37,956 Speaker 1: at this point they've been They spent seventy eight years 243 00:16:38,036 --> 00:16:40,916 Speaker 1: working on this NonStop, and they weren't content to let 244 00:16:40,956 --> 00:16:43,236 Speaker 1: all that work go to waste. They would need to 245 00:16:43,276 --> 00:16:47,316 Speaker 1: find some space in the tiny lunar module itself, and 246 00:16:47,436 --> 00:16:50,116 Speaker 1: Becker and Pavox weren't the only engineers whose work was 247 00:16:50,196 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 1: upended by the budget cuts. As they began working frantically 248 00:16:54,956 --> 00:16:59,196 Speaker 1: to downsize the original rover design. Three other companies Vibe 249 00:16:59,196 --> 00:17:02,636 Speaker 1: to deliver the winning design to Werner von Braun at NASA. 250 00:17:02,916 --> 00:17:07,356 Speaker 1: The three were Chrysler, Grummin and Fendix. Bendix came up 251 00:17:07,356 --> 00:17:12,356 Speaker 1: with a minimum number of moving parts approach. Forget sophistication, 252 00:17:12,996 --> 00:17:16,716 Speaker 1: forget elegance. We just don't want anything to go wrong, 253 00:17:16,956 --> 00:17:20,076 Speaker 1: so we're going to cut anything that can. Bendix put 254 00:17:20,116 --> 00:17:22,996 Speaker 1: the bulk of their energy into the all important wheels. 255 00:17:23,996 --> 00:17:27,476 Speaker 1: They devised a spoked aluminum hub with titanium hoops at 256 00:17:27,516 --> 00:17:31,996 Speaker 1: its crown, surrounded by a titanium band. The idea was 257 00:17:32,076 --> 00:17:35,396 Speaker 1: that if the Bendix rover hid an obstacle, the titanium 258 00:17:35,396 --> 00:17:39,316 Speaker 1: hoops would compress, observing the shock of the impact. Then 259 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:42,836 Speaker 1: once the rover was past the obstacle, the titanium would 260 00:17:42,836 --> 00:17:47,316 Speaker 1: pop back into shape. Wheel and suspension in one wasn't 261 00:17:47,356 --> 00:17:50,556 Speaker 1: good looking. It looked like it had been fashioned in 262 00:17:50,636 --> 00:17:55,316 Speaker 1: an old West blacksmith shop, but it worked pretty well. Meanwhile, 263 00:17:55,596 --> 00:17:58,636 Speaker 1: over at Chrysler, the design team there was working on 264 00:17:58,676 --> 00:18:02,356 Speaker 1: a rover with a much smaller footprint. The two astronauts 265 00:18:02,396 --> 00:18:05,196 Speaker 1: would sit back to back on a much narrower platform, 266 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 1: but there was a cost to the Chrysler's slim profile 267 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:12,156 Speaker 1: didn't leave much cargo space for collecting lunar rock samples 268 00:18:12,636 --> 00:18:15,596 Speaker 1: and collecting samples was the whole point of the rover. 269 00:18:16,796 --> 00:18:20,036 Speaker 1: And finally there was the team over at Grumman working 270 00:18:20,116 --> 00:18:24,276 Speaker 1: up their own idea for the rover, a crouching spidery looking. 271 00:18:25,476 --> 00:18:29,396 Speaker 1: It really looked like a spacecraft on wheels. Grumman's design 272 00:18:29,436 --> 00:18:31,956 Speaker 1: had wheel shaped like flower pots turned on their sides. 273 00:18:32,756 --> 00:18:37,396 Speaker 1: They compressed over the Lorraine. They were sort of comically floppy. Also, 274 00:18:37,516 --> 00:18:40,796 Speaker 1: the Grumman design didn't have traditional steering, just a joystick 275 00:18:40,836 --> 00:18:44,316 Speaker 1: at the front. When an astronaut moved the joystick, the 276 00:18:44,476 --> 00:18:48,916 Speaker 1: entire craft would contort itself and pivot, and it was fast. 277 00:18:49,636 --> 00:18:53,436 Speaker 1: It's crouching attitude gave it almost the sports per field. 278 00:18:55,036 --> 00:18:57,236 Speaker 1: But in the end Werner von Braunze said no to 279 00:18:57,276 --> 00:19:06,316 Speaker 1: all three. Grumman's space spider was just too weird for NASA. 280 00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:10,516 Speaker 1: The Chrysler didn't have enough cargo capacity to elect geological samples, 281 00:19:11,036 --> 00:19:16,116 Speaker 1: and Bendix's design seemed rudimentary. And then, in the spring 282 00:19:16,156 --> 00:19:19,636 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty eight, just four months after the budget cuts, 283 00:19:20,276 --> 00:19:23,916 Speaker 1: who should walk into von Braun's office our Man Fern's 284 00:19:23,956 --> 00:19:27,636 Speaker 1: pavlis carrying a one six scale model of an ingeniously 285 00:19:27,716 --> 00:19:34,236 Speaker 1: redesigned GM rover. Pavlis proposed a four wheeled rover that 286 00:19:34,276 --> 00:19:36,956 Speaker 1: can fold into thirds, like how you'd fold a letter 287 00:19:36,956 --> 00:19:39,876 Speaker 1: to fit in an envelope. The reduction in the number 288 00:19:39,876 --> 00:19:43,916 Speaker 1: of wheels plus the associated origami meant that this rover 289 00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:47,396 Speaker 1: could be stowed in the lunar module. NASA wouldn't need 290 00:19:47,396 --> 00:19:51,196 Speaker 1: two rockets after all, the seats folded flat and both 291 00:19:51,236 --> 00:19:55,076 Speaker 1: axles folded back over the center section. And while Pavlicks 292 00:19:55,116 --> 00:19:57,396 Speaker 1: had to pare down his wheel count from six to four, 293 00:19:58,276 --> 00:20:01,516 Speaker 1: the wheels themselves were a feat of Terra mechanical genius 294 00:20:02,036 --> 00:20:06,436 Speaker 1: mesh donuts woven from stainless steel piano wire reinforced with 295 00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:11,076 Speaker 1: titanium hoops inside and compile at Chevron's for traction laid 296 00:20:11,116 --> 00:20:15,316 Speaker 1: over the wire, eight hundred threads of it woven into 297 00:20:15,396 --> 00:20:19,436 Speaker 1: a tight mesh. Each space between the threads was about 298 00:20:19,436 --> 00:20:22,476 Speaker 1: three sixteenth of an inch wide. That was the outer balloon, 299 00:20:22,636 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 1: the tire, if you will, of the wheel mounted onto 300 00:20:25,956 --> 00:20:28,916 Speaker 1: a spun aluminum hub, and then inside you had a 301 00:20:29,036 --> 00:20:32,396 Speaker 1: treis of titanium hoops that served as a bump stop. 302 00:20:32,436 --> 00:20:35,956 Speaker 1: So if you hit something really hard and you deformed 303 00:20:36,036 --> 00:20:39,796 Speaker 1: that outside mesh tire and the titanium hoop would keep 304 00:20:39,836 --> 00:20:43,476 Speaker 1: the deformity from going into deeper Legend has it when 305 00:20:43,596 --> 00:20:47,116 Speaker 1: von Braun saw Pablock's redesign, he slammed his fist on 306 00:20:47,116 --> 00:20:51,596 Speaker 1: the desktop and shouted, V must do this. There are 307 00:20:51,596 --> 00:20:55,676 Speaker 1: many brilliant elements of Pablock's vision, but perhaps most crucial 308 00:20:55,996 --> 00:21:00,156 Speaker 1: was that his GM rover felt familiar somehow. It wasn't 309 00:21:00,156 --> 00:21:05,156 Speaker 1: a spartan medieval hauler or a futuristic spider. It was, 310 00:21:05,636 --> 00:21:11,436 Speaker 1: in essence a car. It followed the precepts of, you know, 311 00:21:11,436 --> 00:21:14,036 Speaker 1: an American Earth car GM product of the late nineteen 312 00:21:14,116 --> 00:21:18,316 Speaker 1: sixty The power plant, mainly two thirty six bolt batteries, 313 00:21:19,396 --> 00:21:23,516 Speaker 1: was up front, the astronauts sat side by side of midships, 314 00:21:23,556 --> 00:21:26,196 Speaker 1: and then the trunk was in the back. It was 315 00:21:26,316 --> 00:21:30,516 Speaker 1: really the first ev that General motors produced correct at 316 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:35,396 Speaker 1: least yes since the very early twentieth century. Has originally 317 00:21:35,396 --> 00:21:38,836 Speaker 1: proposed it was going to be rechargeable. You'd be able 318 00:21:38,876 --> 00:21:40,796 Speaker 1: to put up a solar array and recharge the thing 319 00:21:40,836 --> 00:21:46,076 Speaker 1: in NASA killed that as an unnecessary complication. Von Braun 320 00:21:46,156 --> 00:21:49,716 Speaker 1: spent the next year navigating NASA's bureaucracy and Production of 321 00:21:49,796 --> 00:21:53,156 Speaker 1: Pavlick's Rover began in the fall of nineteen sixty nine. 322 00:21:53,876 --> 00:21:57,156 Speaker 1: GM partner with Boeing for the build, and NASA gave 323 00:21:57,196 --> 00:22:00,556 Speaker 1: them a due date of March nineteen seventy one, a 324 00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:03,676 Speaker 1: little less than a year and a half. NASA usually 325 00:22:03,716 --> 00:22:06,116 Speaker 1: took three or four years to develop a piece of hardware. 326 00:22:06,196 --> 00:22:11,196 Speaker 1: This was crazily fast, and the breakneck production calendar wasn't 327 00:22:11,196 --> 00:22:16,596 Speaker 1: the only complication, you know, it's it's funny. In the book, 328 00:22:16,676 --> 00:22:21,236 Speaker 1: one of my favorite passages is the frustration that NASA 329 00:22:21,356 --> 00:22:25,276 Speaker 1: is having with Boeing and General Motors, sort of in 330 00:22:25,316 --> 00:22:31,316 Speaker 1: that order. NASA is working to this crazy set of 331 00:22:31,356 --> 00:22:34,396 Speaker 1: standards where absolutely nothing can go wrong. And it was 332 00:22:34,996 --> 00:22:38,836 Speaker 1: you know, everything was on the science, you know, everything 333 00:22:38,916 --> 00:22:43,196 Speaker 1: was instrumented flight. But General motors they're making sixty nine 334 00:22:43,276 --> 00:22:49,036 Speaker 1: Vista cruisers. They're making Camaros. In fairness to General Motors. 335 00:22:49,916 --> 00:22:52,356 Speaker 1: Now fair in mind, this has nothing to do with 336 00:22:52,596 --> 00:22:55,356 Speaker 1: Camber motors in Detroit. So these are not the same 337 00:22:55,356 --> 00:22:58,036 Speaker 1: people that are building the Vega think you know, the 338 00:22:58,356 --> 00:23:02,156 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara operation. This was an idea factory. These guys 339 00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:05,196 Speaker 1: were never planning to actually build any of the stuff. 340 00:23:05,196 --> 00:23:07,396 Speaker 1: They came up with. So what you have here a 341 00:23:07,596 --> 00:23:12,916 Speaker 1: bunch of serrists, fantastic engineers, great at building prototypes, but 342 00:23:12,956 --> 00:23:16,396 Speaker 1: not at all schools and actually building a production vehicle. 343 00:23:17,156 --> 00:23:20,916 Speaker 1: And suddenly they're thrust into a situation where not only 344 00:23:20,956 --> 00:23:24,836 Speaker 1: do they have to build the most carefully constructed vehicle 345 00:23:24,996 --> 00:23:27,396 Speaker 1: in human history, but they have to do it in 346 00:23:27,436 --> 00:23:35,276 Speaker 1: seventeen months. All they have is kind of a bag design. 347 00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:38,436 Speaker 1: When they go into it, they know nothing about. NASA's 348 00:23:38,436 --> 00:23:45,476 Speaker 1: weregorous testing procedures, which take months and are just numbingly repetitive, 349 00:23:45,996 --> 00:23:48,516 Speaker 1: you know. They were unfamiliar with a culture in which 350 00:23:48,556 --> 00:23:50,916 Speaker 1: if a piece broke you had to write reports in 351 00:23:50,996 --> 00:23:54,636 Speaker 1: triplicate detailing every test that you then put that broken 352 00:23:54,676 --> 00:23:56,796 Speaker 1: piece to to find out why it had broken. And 353 00:23:56,836 --> 00:24:01,316 Speaker 1: so it was a clash of cultures to bureaucratic obstacles, however, 354 00:24:01,716 --> 00:24:05,116 Speaker 1: pale next to the scientific challenges. There was no way 355 00:24:05,116 --> 00:24:09,076 Speaker 1: to simulate actually drive in accurately anyway. In one subscriber, 356 00:24:09,756 --> 00:24:12,596 Speaker 1: equipment from the previous Apollo missions had been tested in 357 00:24:12,676 --> 00:24:16,356 Speaker 1: space before liftoff. The lunar module and the command module 358 00:24:16,436 --> 00:24:18,676 Speaker 1: had been flown into low Earth orbit as sort of 359 00:24:18,756 --> 00:24:22,276 Speaker 1: dry runs, but there was simply no way to test 360 00:24:22,316 --> 00:24:24,836 Speaker 1: the rover in the environment for which it was intended. 361 00:24:25,996 --> 00:24:29,316 Speaker 1: For one thing, putting earthweight astronauts in a one sex 362 00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:33,556 Speaker 1: or moon mass rover would destroy the thing. They could 363 00:24:33,556 --> 00:24:36,436 Speaker 1: test the wheels out in the sands of California, but 364 00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:39,316 Speaker 1: not the rover itself. There was no way to predict 365 00:24:40,196 --> 00:24:44,276 Speaker 1: exactly how it would behave in those conditions. Yeah, a 366 00:24:44,276 --> 00:24:48,836 Speaker 1: lot of it was pure mass and good engineering, really 367 00:24:48,876 --> 00:24:53,596 Speaker 1: pretty visionary stuff. We're so jaded to the conveniences of 368 00:24:53,836 --> 00:24:56,876 Speaker 1: twenty first century life. We're talking Stone Age stuff here. 369 00:24:56,956 --> 00:25:00,036 Speaker 1: When we talked about Apollo, you know, stuff that was 370 00:25:00,076 --> 00:25:04,396 Speaker 1: worked out on blackboards and was five rules. We'll hear 371 00:25:04,476 --> 00:25:19,356 Speaker 1: how it all worked out after the break. As much 372 00:25:19,356 --> 00:25:23,076 Speaker 1: of a success story as the rover eventually became, some 373 00:25:23,116 --> 00:25:26,796 Speaker 1: stuff did go wrong. On a Pole fifteen, the first 374 00:25:26,876 --> 00:25:30,836 Speaker 1: lunar rover mission, astronaut Dave Scott climbed into the driver's 375 00:25:30,836 --> 00:25:34,316 Speaker 1: seat shortly after touchdown on the Moon, only to discover 376 00:25:34,436 --> 00:25:38,476 Speaker 1: that the front steering wasn't working. Thankfully, it was just 377 00:25:38,516 --> 00:25:42,236 Speaker 1: a brief electrical glitch, but steering issues cropped up again 378 00:25:42,316 --> 00:25:46,316 Speaker 1: on a Polo sixteen and then later in that second 379 00:25:46,396 --> 00:25:51,076 Speaker 1: rover mission, things got really gnarly. John Young, the mission commander, 380 00:25:51,196 --> 00:25:53,836 Speaker 1: as he was walking past the erber, snagged beat the 381 00:25:53,996 --> 00:25:57,396 Speaker 1: right wear fender extension with a hammer that was jutting 382 00:25:57,396 --> 00:26:01,076 Speaker 1: out of a pocket on her shin and ripped it off. 383 00:26:01,876 --> 00:26:05,716 Speaker 1: Without that fender extension, the werber picked up a rooster 384 00:26:05,836 --> 00:26:08,756 Speaker 1: tail of dust wherever it went, and you did not 385 00:26:08,876 --> 00:26:11,756 Speaker 1: need high speeds to achieve that rooster tail. I mean, 386 00:26:11,756 --> 00:26:14,196 Speaker 1: these guys were going six miles an hour most of 387 00:26:14,276 --> 00:26:16,716 Speaker 1: the time. They topped out at like eight, and that 388 00:26:16,796 --> 00:26:19,916 Speaker 1: was an uncomfortably fast drive. But the result was that 389 00:26:19,996 --> 00:26:23,956 Speaker 1: this dust got propelled onto the astronauts, onto the electronics. 390 00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:27,716 Speaker 1: A cloud of fine moon dust might not sound like 391 00:26:27,756 --> 00:26:32,636 Speaker 1: a big deal, but it's highly abrasive. Scientists have described 392 00:26:32,676 --> 00:26:36,556 Speaker 1: it as fine as flour and rough as sandpaper that 393 00:26:36,596 --> 00:26:39,596 Speaker 1: gets into any moving part and you're screwed over two 394 00:26:39,716 --> 00:26:43,396 Speaker 1: hundred thousand miles from home. On top of all of that, 395 00:26:43,876 --> 00:26:46,796 Speaker 1: if that dust got into the rover's electrical system, it 396 00:26:46,836 --> 00:26:49,476 Speaker 1: would absorb the blazing heat from the sun and fry 397 00:26:49,516 --> 00:26:54,876 Speaker 1: the circuits and so working overnight. John Young put together 398 00:26:54,916 --> 00:26:58,836 Speaker 1: a solution, and they picked the fender with maps duct 399 00:26:58,876 --> 00:27:02,876 Speaker 1: tape and two clamps, good old duct tape. Can you 400 00:27:02,916 --> 00:27:05,916 Speaker 1: imagine how cool headed these guys are? Well, yeah, I 401 00:27:05,916 --> 00:27:10,276 Speaker 1: mean you kind of understand Nassis requirement that they all 402 00:27:10,276 --> 00:27:13,476 Speaker 1: be test pilots. You go, you fall quarter million miles there, 403 00:27:14,196 --> 00:27:15,836 Speaker 1: and you get into a car, You get into a 404 00:27:15,916 --> 00:27:20,116 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine General Motors product. And I don't know, lady, 405 00:27:20,116 --> 00:27:23,396 Speaker 1: if you've owned any nineteen sixty nine General Motors products, 406 00:27:23,396 --> 00:27:25,236 Speaker 1: but I've owned two of it. I had two Oldsmobiles, 407 00:27:25,396 --> 00:27:29,476 Speaker 1: just a Cruiser in a cutless convertible, and I loved 408 00:27:29,476 --> 00:27:33,836 Speaker 1: both of those cars. But you would advasked me, you know, 409 00:27:33,996 --> 00:27:35,876 Speaker 1: would you be willing to get behind the wheel of 410 00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:38,796 Speaker 1: that cutless convertible a quarter million miles from home and 411 00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:42,516 Speaker 1: drive out of sight of your one way home. I 412 00:27:42,556 --> 00:27:47,836 Speaker 1: might have to think about that. Those nineteen sixty nine 413 00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:52,156 Speaker 1: General Motors projects took us past the known known, allowing 414 00:27:52,236 --> 00:27:54,796 Speaker 1: us to make good on the promise of Apolo eleven, 415 00:27:55,396 --> 00:27:57,156 Speaker 1: Because why go up there if we're not going to 416 00:27:57,196 --> 00:28:00,276 Speaker 1: see what the moon is all about, if it's habitable, 417 00:28:00,916 --> 00:28:07,836 Speaker 1: if it's volcanic, if there's water. Apollo eleven, in case 418 00:28:07,876 --> 00:28:10,516 Speaker 1: you're having a hard time keeping your mission strait is 419 00:28:10,516 --> 00:28:14,716 Speaker 1: the famous Neil Armstrong Buzz Aldrin voyage. One small step 420 00:28:14,836 --> 00:28:19,116 Speaker 1: for a man, one giant leap for mankind. But in 421 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:22,716 Speaker 1: some ways the lunar rover missions were even greater leaps. 422 00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:28,076 Speaker 1: Armstrong and Aldron's mandate was relatively simple. Land on the 423 00:28:28,116 --> 00:28:30,596 Speaker 1: most boring piece of real estate on the Moon, the 424 00:28:30,676 --> 00:28:36,116 Speaker 1: Sea of Tranquility, totally flat, no obstacles, walk around for 425 00:28:36,156 --> 00:28:39,316 Speaker 1: a couple hours, get back in the ship, meet up 426 00:28:39,316 --> 00:28:44,636 Speaker 1: with the orbiter, and fly home. Easy. But the farthest 427 00:28:44,716 --> 00:28:47,956 Speaker 1: Armstrong and Aldrin got from the lunar module was sixty 428 00:28:47,996 --> 00:28:53,316 Speaker 1: five yards. And here's maybe the key point about the rovers. 429 00:28:53,356 --> 00:28:56,676 Speaker 1: Every mission before the lunar rovers was a prelude to 430 00:28:56,716 --> 00:29:00,316 Speaker 1: the real science, the real interrogation of the Moon's surface. 431 00:29:01,436 --> 00:29:05,716 Speaker 1: Apollos eleven through fourteen were really just equipment testing. The 432 00:29:05,796 --> 00:29:09,476 Speaker 1: guys from a polar fourteen, you know, the walking only 433 00:29:09,516 --> 00:29:12,436 Speaker 1: as far as they can walk in their spacesuits, and 434 00:29:12,676 --> 00:29:16,076 Speaker 1: just simple movement in that spacesuit was taxing as you 435 00:29:16,196 --> 00:29:19,196 Speaker 1: used muscle just to shuffle forward or the bunny hop. 436 00:29:20,316 --> 00:29:26,636 Speaker 1: Your metabolic radius increasing, which increases your consumption of the 437 00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:29,676 Speaker 1: air in cooling water, your backpack which limits the amount 438 00:29:29,676 --> 00:29:31,876 Speaker 1: of time you can stay outside. The radius of a 439 00:29:31,876 --> 00:29:34,036 Speaker 1: Polo war team was about half a mile. You were 440 00:29:34,036 --> 00:29:38,156 Speaker 1: really limited in radius. On the next mission, Apollo fifteen, 441 00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:41,876 Speaker 1: the crew of Dave Scott and Jim Irwin covers seventeen 442 00:29:41,916 --> 00:29:45,076 Speaker 1: and a quarter miles in their GM rover. It just 443 00:29:45,196 --> 00:29:49,076 Speaker 1: completely remade the mission. When Dave Scott and Jim Irwin 444 00:29:49,156 --> 00:29:52,116 Speaker 1: got into that rover, they covered more in their first 445 00:29:52,236 --> 00:29:55,316 Speaker 1: thirteen minutes in the car than all of the previous 446 00:29:56,116 --> 00:29:59,356 Speaker 1: missions had covered on the liner surface. From Bile, those 447 00:29:59,396 --> 00:30:02,916 Speaker 1: guys climbed the side of a mountain the sides of Kilimanjaro, 448 00:30:02,996 --> 00:30:05,036 Speaker 1: went hundreds of feet up up the side of it. 449 00:30:05,756 --> 00:30:08,396 Speaker 1: They explored the edge of a canyon that was a 450 00:30:08,396 --> 00:30:11,236 Speaker 1: mile wide and thousand feet deep with the PUBLICI team. 451 00:30:11,276 --> 00:30:13,436 Speaker 1: For the first time, you have a mission that doesn't 452 00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:16,476 Speaker 1: have except for testing the rover on that first drive, 453 00:30:16,916 --> 00:30:21,516 Speaker 1: doesn't have a developmental angle to it. It's pure science 454 00:30:21,596 --> 00:30:28,076 Speaker 1: and exploration. They explored all right. With the GM rovers. 455 00:30:28,396 --> 00:30:32,116 Speaker 1: Our astronauts went farther and brought back more stuff than 456 00:30:32,236 --> 00:30:36,036 Speaker 1: ever could have happened otherwise. They went a total of 457 00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:39,436 Speaker 1: fifty six miles on the three emissions. It was a 458 00:30:39,436 --> 00:30:42,516 Speaker 1: total game changer, and what they brought back in their 459 00:30:42,596 --> 00:30:45,676 Speaker 1: rock bags was key to finding out how the Moon's 460 00:30:45,676 --> 00:30:50,116 Speaker 1: surface developed. Scott and Irwin discovered what's known as the 461 00:30:50,196 --> 00:30:53,676 Speaker 1: Genesis rock. Genesis rock was a piece of a north 462 00:30:53,716 --> 00:30:58,116 Speaker 1: of site, which is a mineral that was thought to 463 00:30:58,156 --> 00:31:01,076 Speaker 1: be part of the original lunar crust. You know, one 464 00:31:01,116 --> 00:31:04,396 Speaker 1: of the things that it's valuable about the Moon from 465 00:31:04,396 --> 00:31:08,036 Speaker 1: a scientific standpoint is that it's been dead since infancy. 466 00:31:08,356 --> 00:31:12,036 Speaker 1: So while you know, the Earth is this very dynamic 467 00:31:12,116 --> 00:31:16,036 Speaker 1: place with with changes wrought by oceans and by volcanoes 468 00:31:16,076 --> 00:31:20,956 Speaker 1: and by uh, you know, continental drift, the Moon's is 469 00:31:21,036 --> 00:31:23,476 Speaker 1: as it as it was, you know, four and a 470 00:31:23,516 --> 00:31:27,036 Speaker 1: half billion years ago, largely the only changes that have 471 00:31:27,156 --> 00:31:30,476 Speaker 1: come to it have been brought by meteorite striking it. 472 00:31:31,316 --> 00:31:33,956 Speaker 1: So it makes it really valuable if you're looking at 473 00:31:33,956 --> 00:31:37,356 Speaker 1: the origins of the universe to go there to get 474 00:31:37,356 --> 00:31:41,276 Speaker 1: a beat on on how things work. Yeah, yeah, in 475 00:31:41,276 --> 00:31:47,716 Speaker 1: its way, and it's dead, terrible desolate way. And you know, 476 00:31:47,796 --> 00:31:50,876 Speaker 1: the North Site, because it was part of the thought 477 00:31:50,916 --> 00:31:52,916 Speaker 1: to be part of the original lunar crust, was was 478 00:31:52,956 --> 00:31:56,356 Speaker 1: something that NASA really put a priority on. It was 479 00:31:56,356 --> 00:31:59,316 Speaker 1: a holy grail, and Dave Scott and Jimmer, when founded 480 00:31:59,396 --> 00:32:04,436 Speaker 1: on their second drive and were well trained enough as geologists, 481 00:32:04,436 --> 00:32:07,036 Speaker 1: they recognized immediately what it was that they were holding 482 00:32:07,036 --> 00:32:12,316 Speaker 1: in their hands. The bright white Genesis Rock was thought 483 00:32:12,356 --> 00:32:15,116 Speaker 1: to be ejected from the crust after a meteorite hit 484 00:32:15,156 --> 00:32:18,516 Speaker 1: the Moon's surface. The Genesis rock showed that the Moon's 485 00:32:18,596 --> 00:32:21,796 Speaker 1: later topography was shaped by stuff hitting it, but that 486 00:32:21,836 --> 00:32:27,356 Speaker 1: the moon was also very early on volcanic. Not bad 487 00:32:27,396 --> 00:32:36,116 Speaker 1: for a day's work. Why did it stop? Apollo? Money? 488 00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:40,516 Speaker 1: In a word, money, I mean, you have to remember this, 489 00:32:41,596 --> 00:32:48,196 Speaker 1: This is all occurring while we're mired in Vietnam. We 490 00:32:48,236 --> 00:32:55,916 Speaker 1: are dealing with just terrible societal problems at home, none 491 00:32:55,916 --> 00:33:00,436 Speaker 1: of which seemed easy to fix except by spending an 492 00:33:00,436 --> 00:33:04,916 Speaker 1: awful lot of money and a polishifting costs. Four hundred 493 00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:08,636 Speaker 1: and forty five million dollars. Four hundred forty five million 494 00:33:08,676 --> 00:33:11,476 Speaker 1: bucks is a lot of money anytime, but this was 495 00:33:11,556 --> 00:33:17,036 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. That's over three billion dollars in today's money. 496 00:33:17,196 --> 00:33:20,076 Speaker 1: And that was just the Apollo fifteen price tag. The 497 00:33:20,076 --> 00:33:22,836 Speaker 1: Apolopo Ram, for all of its achievements, had one really 498 00:33:22,876 --> 00:33:25,636 Speaker 1: serious drawback, and that was that virtually all of the 499 00:33:25,756 --> 00:33:31,716 Speaker 1: equipment used to reach those achievements was used once and 500 00:33:31,836 --> 00:33:38,956 Speaker 1: thrown away. The Lunar rover made a remarkable journey from 501 00:33:38,996 --> 00:33:42,076 Speaker 1: the pages of Colliers Weekly in the early fifties to 502 00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:47,036 Speaker 1: the surface of the Moon in nineteen seventy one, and 503 00:33:47,076 --> 00:33:51,396 Speaker 1: then just like that, the mission was over. We left 504 00:33:51,396 --> 00:33:55,876 Speaker 1: the Moon, and we left our rovers behind, literally and figuratively. 505 00:33:56,716 --> 00:33:59,196 Speaker 1: Who knows what might have happened if the project continued. 506 00:33:59,876 --> 00:34:02,796 Speaker 1: How much further along in the development of electric vehicles 507 00:34:02,836 --> 00:34:06,436 Speaker 1: would we be and would there be all inclusive resorts 508 00:34:06,516 --> 00:34:10,756 Speaker 1: up there on that Descartes highlands. Look up the Lunar 509 00:34:10,756 --> 00:34:14,916 Speaker 1: Reconnaissance Orbiter camera from Arizona State University and you can 510 00:34:14,996 --> 00:34:17,836 Speaker 1: zoom in on the landing sites. You can see the 511 00:34:17,876 --> 00:34:20,196 Speaker 1: tire tracks, and you can follow over the tire tracks 512 00:34:20,236 --> 00:34:33,636 Speaker 1: for miles across the Learner surface. We'll soon go back 513 00:34:33,716 --> 00:34:36,876 Speaker 1: up there to create more tire tracks and hopefully discover 514 00:34:37,036 --> 00:34:40,316 Speaker 1: more than we were able to the first round. NASA's 515 00:34:40,436 --> 00:34:42,836 Speaker 1: Artemis program plans to get us back to the Moon 516 00:34:42,876 --> 00:34:46,476 Speaker 1: for the first time in fifty years. The current timetable 517 00:34:46,556 --> 00:34:49,116 Speaker 1: has Americans landing on the Moon in twenty twenty four, 518 00:34:50,316 --> 00:34:52,716 Speaker 1: NASA plans to put a permanent colony on the Moon 519 00:34:52,956 --> 00:34:55,436 Speaker 1: and use it as a platform for travel to Mars 520 00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:59,756 Speaker 1: and once again, General motors is busy at the drafting table, 521 00:35:00,516 --> 00:35:03,676 Speaker 1: But unlike those early Apollo missions, the goal this time 522 00:35:03,676 --> 00:35:07,516 Speaker 1: around isn't just about exploration. What's really interesting about this 523 00:35:07,596 --> 00:35:10,396 Speaker 1: particular series of missions is that the intent is a 524 00:35:10,396 --> 00:35:14,076 Speaker 1: long term habitation, or a colonization of the Moon, if 525 00:35:14,076 --> 00:35:17,516 Speaker 1: you will. That's Jeffrey Neil who's working to design the 526 00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:21,636 Speaker 1: new lunar rover for Artemis. So yes, perhaps we'll get 527 00:35:21,636 --> 00:35:24,756 Speaker 1: our vacation homes up there. Yet, we may be a 528 00:35:24,836 --> 00:35:29,356 Speaker 1: two planet species, after all. Elon Musk wants that second 529 00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:32,476 Speaker 1: planet to be Mars, not the Moon, but Artemis posits 530 00:35:32,516 --> 00:35:36,196 Speaker 1: the Moon as a launchpad for Mars exploration. Two, We're 531 00:35:36,236 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 1: going back to the Moon, and this is why the 532 00:35:41,356 --> 00:35:45,276 Speaker 1: Moon's a treasure trove of science. It holds opportunities for 533 00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:49,036 Speaker 1: us to make discoveries about our own planet, about our 534 00:35:49,076 --> 00:35:52,756 Speaker 1: son and Bow Solar system. The wealth of knowledge to 535 00:35:52,756 --> 00:35:55,636 Speaker 1: be gleaned from the Moon will inspire a new generation 536 00:35:55,676 --> 00:35:59,836 Speaker 1: of thought and action. Without fail, every major program and 537 00:35:59,956 --> 00:36:03,396 Speaker 1: mission NASA has invested in has led to technologies and 538 00:36:03,436 --> 00:36:07,156 Speaker 1: capabilities that have shaped our culture. The breakthroughs of the 539 00:36:07,236 --> 00:36:10,796 Speaker 1: Artemis era will define our generation. The Moon also makes 540 00:36:10,836 --> 00:36:13,956 Speaker 1: an interesting proving ground for streets on Earth. The new 541 00:36:14,036 --> 00:36:17,796 Speaker 1: rovers are electrified. It's the first ones were, but that 542 00:36:17,836 --> 00:36:22,316 Speaker 1: line of electric vehicle development stopped with Apollo. Hopefully what 543 00:36:22,396 --> 00:36:25,396 Speaker 1: the Artemist team finds out about batteries and motors can 544 00:36:25,436 --> 00:36:28,516 Speaker 1: be applied down here. I think that having the lunar 545 00:36:28,556 --> 00:36:31,476 Speaker 1: surface or the lunar environment as a proving ground is 546 00:36:31,476 --> 00:36:36,436 Speaker 1: certainly a wonderful opportunity. The solutions that are effective in 547 00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:40,756 Speaker 1: that challenging environment will absolutely push our knowledge in our 548 00:36:40,796 --> 00:36:44,196 Speaker 1: technology in the direction that we could then therefore apply 549 00:36:44,476 --> 00:36:48,156 Speaker 1: back on Earth. You have a pretty unique thermal environment there. 550 00:36:48,756 --> 00:36:51,556 Speaker 1: All you ev owners out there know what I'm getting at. 551 00:36:52,396 --> 00:36:56,916 Speaker 1: When it's called out, you'll lose driving range, lots of it. Yeah. 552 00:36:56,956 --> 00:37:02,516 Speaker 1: So there's a huge shift in temperature the lunar surface. 553 00:37:02,876 --> 00:37:08,036 Speaker 1: It's when it's daylight is two hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit. 554 00:37:08,756 --> 00:37:12,316 Speaker 1: When and it's the equivalent of nighttime it's two or 555 00:37:12,436 --> 00:37:16,556 Speaker 1: fifty degrees fahrenheit below zero. So that's a massive shift 556 00:37:16,836 --> 00:37:20,236 Speaker 1: we don't really experience anything quite like that here, and 557 00:37:20,516 --> 00:37:23,676 Speaker 1: the lunar night lasts for the equivalent of fourteen Earth days, 558 00:37:24,076 --> 00:37:27,436 Speaker 1: so it's a very long night, a very long day, 559 00:37:27,876 --> 00:37:30,796 Speaker 1: very cold night, very hot day. One of the things 560 00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:34,996 Speaker 1: that we're working on is obviously solar charging. That's going 561 00:37:35,036 --> 00:37:37,796 Speaker 1: to be the life source for his vehicle. There's nothing 562 00:37:37,796 --> 00:37:41,956 Speaker 1: to plug into up there, and we're developing what what's 563 00:37:41,996 --> 00:37:44,836 Speaker 1: called a solar array, and this will pull energy from 564 00:37:44,876 --> 00:37:47,796 Speaker 1: the sun and it will store it, and our goal 565 00:37:47,836 --> 00:37:52,316 Speaker 1: is to survive the lunar night. We're intending for these 566 00:37:52,356 --> 00:37:54,316 Speaker 1: vehicles to be able to live on the lunar surface, 567 00:37:54,996 --> 00:37:57,436 Speaker 1: so they have to absorb fourteen days of heat and 568 00:37:57,596 --> 00:38:00,116 Speaker 1: light and then use that to survive fourteen days of 569 00:38:00,716 --> 00:38:03,916 Speaker 1: cold and darkness, and then repeat over and over and 570 00:38:03,996 --> 00:38:13,876 Speaker 1: over and over again. So this rover would be of 571 00:38:14,116 --> 00:38:16,436 Speaker 1: unlimited use. You could go as far as you want 572 00:38:16,596 --> 00:38:20,716 Speaker 1: because it's rechargeable. It's also recyclable. The idea is that 573 00:38:20,756 --> 00:38:25,636 Speaker 1: these are not one time use, disposable mobility vehicles. These 574 00:38:25,796 --> 00:38:29,276 Speaker 1: have to have a lot of durability and longevity. We've 575 00:38:29,276 --> 00:38:31,916 Speaker 1: thought a lot about you know, we're in a situation 576 00:38:31,996 --> 00:38:35,996 Speaker 1: now where we're having conversations about repair, long term repair, 577 00:38:36,156 --> 00:38:41,276 Speaker 1: parts inventory. It's not a one use case situation like Apollo. 578 00:38:43,236 --> 00:38:47,756 Speaker 1: We've even talked to the team about the interchangeability of 579 00:38:47,796 --> 00:38:50,356 Speaker 1: the parts. The intent is to have more than one 580 00:38:50,356 --> 00:38:52,596 Speaker 1: of these rovers on the surface at any given time. 581 00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:55,276 Speaker 1: I mean, we're thinking about maintaining a fleet of vehicles 582 00:38:55,276 --> 00:38:58,596 Speaker 1: over a long period of time, and the more we 583 00:38:58,636 --> 00:39:01,756 Speaker 1: can share between this fleet of rovers, the better we're 584 00:39:01,796 --> 00:39:03,956 Speaker 1: going to be. Yeah, it's funny because you know the 585 00:39:04,476 --> 00:39:09,916 Speaker 1: Apower programs, we're sort of use it, leave it, and 586 00:39:09,956 --> 00:39:14,036 Speaker 1: then the Space Shuttle is a reusable service craft. And 587 00:39:14,436 --> 00:39:17,476 Speaker 1: now you look at what Euan Musk is doing, and 588 00:39:18,116 --> 00:39:22,876 Speaker 1: those vehicles intercept the space station and they come back 589 00:39:22,916 --> 00:39:26,516 Speaker 1: and they land on the pad, and sustainability and reusability 590 00:39:26,596 --> 00:39:29,116 Speaker 1: seem to be, all of a sudden the keywords of 591 00:39:29,156 --> 00:39:32,396 Speaker 1: the space program. So it's really cool to hear that 592 00:39:33,156 --> 00:39:35,836 Speaker 1: we're not just using it and dumping it on the 593 00:39:35,876 --> 00:39:42,196 Speaker 1: movie because there's three cars there already, right, I can't 594 00:39:42,196 --> 00:39:45,756 Speaker 1: wait for the photo of the new Rover and the 595 00:39:45,836 --> 00:39:51,636 Speaker 1: old Rover. That's a great idea. Do you hear that? Everybody? 596 00:39:52,276 --> 00:40:09,996 Speaker 1: We're going back to the moon show is written and 597 00:40:10,036 --> 00:40:13,956 Speaker 1: hosted by me Eddie Alterman. It's produced by Sam Dingman, 598 00:40:14,196 --> 00:40:18,076 Speaker 1: Jacob Smith, and Amy Gaines. Our editor is Jen Guera. 599 00:40:18,756 --> 00:40:23,556 Speaker 1: Original music and mastering by Ben Taliday. Our executive producer 600 00:40:23,716 --> 00:40:26,796 Speaker 1: is Mia Loebell. Our show art was designed by Sean 601 00:40:26,916 --> 00:40:30,956 Speaker 1: Karney and airbrushed by Greg Lafever. Our patron saints are 602 00:40:31,036 --> 00:40:34,436 Speaker 1: le Tom Allad and Justine Lane. Car Show is a 603 00:40:34,476 --> 00:40:37,836 Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and 604 00:40:37,916 --> 00:40:43,196 Speaker 1: others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin 605 00:40:43,236 --> 00:40:46,476 Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and 606 00:40:46,636 --> 00:40:50,396 Speaker 1: uninterrupted listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for 607 00:40:50,476 --> 00:40:55,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. Define more Pushkin Podcasts. 608 00:40:56,356 --> 00:41:00,596 Speaker 1: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 609 00:41:00,716 --> 00:41:01,876 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts.