WEBVTT - How Witness Protection Works 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.800 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:16.720 from how Stuff works dot Com. You've heard the rumors before, 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.720 perhaps and whispers written between the lines of the textbooks. Conspiracies, 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.600 paranormal events, all those things that disappear from the official explanations. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.360 Tune in and learn more of this stuff they don't 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.920 want you to know in this video podcast from how 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:42.400 stuff works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.800 I'm Josh Clark. That there is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.640 but that they're down the road a piece, etcetera. I 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.720 am down the road, apiece. I'm sure you are. I wish. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:57.520 Have you ever committed a crime? Charles? I've never been 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.520 caught or convicted of committing a crime, Josh, But you have. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.640 I've never been convicted of the crime. Talk is big 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.440 on c y a crime. Everyone's made a right on 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.120 red when they shouldn't have. Sure have committed a crime. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.200 Everyone who listens to this podcast knows that I started 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.240 out early as a thief and stopped shortly afterward. Remember 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:24.759 the firecrackers in the pac Man shirt? Ye yes, um, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.640 If you committed crime. You've got your own thing going on, right, sure, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:30.760 But what happens if you witness a crime. You're just 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.360 some innacent person and you see somebody shoot somebody else 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:36.959 in the head. The blood comes spurting out and like 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.720 a big arc and the eyes go glaze and you're 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.640 just standing there watching this and you get a good 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.559 look at the person who did it. What do you do? 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.559 You get the heck out of there. You call a cop. Yeah, 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.720 that's a good first step. And what what may end 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.320 up happening? And I think this is where you're going, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.520 is you may end up a witness that has to 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.240 go to court and testify against this bad, bad person. 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.920 Here's the thing, Uh, part of our constitution actually, I 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.920 don't know if it's in the constitution, but let's say 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.960 a general protection that any individual has is protection against 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.600 being coerced into testifying against somebody. It's an individual's right 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.040 to choose whether or not you want to testify, and um, 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.560 a lot of people choose not to. Yeah, very much. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.840 It's a big problem. Actually, Uh, there there's a lot 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.600 of people who do witness crimes that you say, I'm 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:30.920 not doing it. I'm not going to get involved exactly. 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.160 One of the reasons why is because there is a 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.919 longstanding tradition of witnesses being murdered when they testify or 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.720 agree to testify, especially in circumstances where you're dealing with 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:47.840 gangs or drugs or racketeering crime. Yeah, but some of 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.680 the heavy hitters. Sure. I mean, if you're gonna go 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.000 up river for twenty years and you've already killed a 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.760 bunch of people, what's one more witness? Exactly? Right? Um. So, 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.560 the the US federal government and actually some other countries 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.600 have this as well. I looked into that, did you 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.680 when you come up with well, we'll get to that later. Okay, 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.600 they have something called the Witness Protection Program, commonly thought 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.720 to be called the witness Relocation Program. That's kind of 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.240 an aspect of the larger program, right exactly. So let's 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.000 let's go back to the nineteen sixties. Okay. So we're 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.480 the guys that are dressed funny in nineteen sixty exactly. 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.000 And I haven't figured out yet if people can see us, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:31.760 can't see us, or just ignoring us. I think we're observing. Okay, Um, so, Chuck, 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.640 it's the nineteen sixties. John F. Kennedy's father, Joseph has 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.800 just stolen the presidential election for him. Uh, and he's 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.480 put his brother Bobby in his attorney general. They have 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.680 turned on the very mafia that helped get them New York, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:53.200 I think, Illinois, uh, some key states in the presidential election. Now, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.280 up to this point, there was no mafia. There was 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.520 an unrecognized entity. It existed, but as far as the 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:06.880 federal government, including and especially Jayer Hoover, it wasn't real. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.360 Organized crime in the United States wasn't real, and there 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.080 certainly wasn't a mafia. Well, Bobby Kennedy comes in, is like, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.560 there is a mafia number one and number two, we're 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:20.760 going after him. Um. And so the Kennedy administration goes 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.039 after organized crime. They they they very famously started interviewing 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.680 crime bosses, some of whom said that they were patriotic 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.800 Americans because they pay their taxes, that kind of thing. Uh. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:37.120 And the mafia becomes part of the collective consciousness of 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.919 the United States. Right by nineteen seventy uh, there was 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.200 actual real strides made in combating organized crime, one of 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.800 which was the Organized Crime Act of nineteen seventy Organized 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.800 Crime Control Act, thank you chuck, just to be specific, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:59.880 which was introduced by who Arkansas Senator John McClellan in nine. Yes, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.240 he had an aid who actually drafted the legislation forum 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.479 That would be g. Robert Blakely. And it was a 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.320 large bill. So what he did, and like many bills, 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.440 there's a lot of things kind of snuck in. There're 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.440 not snuck in there, but inserted. He uh inserted a 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:19.520 little thing about witness protection for the first time officially 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.599 thanks to a guy named Gerald Schuer who created the 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.200 witness protection program. He was a U S attorney, had 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.440 the ear of Blakely. Yeah, and he was a U 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.160 S attorney under Bobby Kennedy. So in this provision in 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.360 nineteen or in this Act of nineteen seventy, there's a 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.520 provision that says the Attorney General can basically allow the 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.279 federal government, I guess the Marshall services named in it 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.839 to protect any witness by any means they need to. 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.880 So there you go. That's pretty wide latitude. It was 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:52.320 revised in nineteen eighty four to include family members as well. Yeah, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.800 the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of eight four, right, and 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.760 it's been going ever since then. Better known as van 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:04.360 Halen nineteen eighty four. That's the alternate named alternate. Yeah, 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:10.359 um man, you just made me want to do the robot, didn't. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.040 Um So, Chuck. We've got the Witness Protection Program. Everybody 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.040 knows about it. It's it's been um part of popular 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.760 culture since its inception. Movies, especially right, um the al 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.400 and All the movie Betsy's Wedding My Blue Heaven. Yeah, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.640 one of your favorites. Right, I love that movie. I 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.000 know you don't like it. I it's not that I 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.159 didn't like it. I didn't like Steve Martin. I didn't 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.000 buy his character. Not you weren't supposed to buy his 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.919 Martin doing a Mafio. So that in and of itself 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.560 is comedy. That makes me a schmuck. Not necessarily. Everyone's 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.880 in title Loui's own opinion here, a's stuff. You should know. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.200 Our motto is to each his own. Sure, so you're fine, Chuck. 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.839 But there was another little movie that's arguably the greatest 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.240 gangster movie ever made, possibly better than The Godfather. That's 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.520 a tough one, it is, but the fact that it's 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.080 even competing with the Godfather, it's a lot about it. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.760 That movie is a little Martin Scorsese movie called Goodfellas, 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.960 based on real life events, based on a book called 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.200 Wise Guys by Nicholas Plague yep, and based on a 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:15.360 famous rat snitch called Henry Hill, who ray Leota played 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.240 in the film. Yeah, and Henry Hill was a real dude, 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.960 and he really did uh snitch on the um? What 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.640 was the what was the family? The Luchese crime family? 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.200 And he took the stand and and was in the 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.040 witness protection program for a while. He's clearly not anymore 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.080 because he's on Howard Stern all the time. Uh No, 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.680 but he was in the witness protection program. He was 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.040 a problem child from what I understand. And ladies and gentlemen, 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.600 may I announce Mr Charles W. Bryant doing a dramatic 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:49.680 reading from the movie Goodfellas. Silence please. We ran everything. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.080 We paid off cops, we paid off lawyers, we paid 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.040 off judges. Everybody had their hands out. Everything was for 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.600 the taking. And now it's all over. That's the hardest part. 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.640 Today everything is different. There's no action. I have to 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.800 wait around like everybody else. Can't even get decent food. 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.160 After I got here, I ordered spaghetti with marinara sauce, 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.600 and I got egg noodles with ketchup. I'm an average nobody. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:13.720 I get to live the rest of my life like 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.640 a schnook. Thank you, Charles. That is the last scene 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.640 from Good Fellows when Raino does goes out to get 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:25.640 the paper. Story imagines Joe PESSI just shooting up such 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:30.240 a classic. So you can tell from that passage brilliant 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.280 by the way, buddy, thank you. You can tell by 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.319 that passage that UM witness protection is not a lot 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.400 of fun necessarily, especially if you are a high flying 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.960 mafios So you have to go become some regular Joe 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.920 and Tempi. Yeah, absolutely right, Um chuck, I'm about to 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.160 blow your mind. My man, I've been waiting on this. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.679 You're ready. My Blue Heaven also based on Henry Hill. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.760 Was it really? Do you want to know why? Uh? 0:08:55.800 --> 0:09:03.120 I don't know. Nicholas Pelegy married one Nora Efron the screen. No, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.120 I kid you not. I went back and cross references. Yes, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.120 those two got married in Ron who wrote My Blue Heaven. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.520 Both movies were based upon joint interviews they conducted with 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:18.480 Henry Hill. No kidding, I kid you not? Did she right? 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.080 My Blue Heaven h huh did not know that? Wow? Yep, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.080 So there you go. There's a cocktail party tidbit. Yeah, 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:26.880 that's good. Didn't I know they were married? Are they 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.360 still married? Yeah? As far as or do you have 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.120 a rubbed out? Not yet, but she doesn't know too much. 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.000 By this time, he's got some concrete boots with her 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.240 name on him. Alright, So, Chuck, let's talk about the 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.600 actual witness Relocation program, which in the industry is called 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:47.480 whit SEC. Yes, officially took hold in nineteen seventy. Since then, 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.439 hush your mouth, there have been more than witnesses and 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.520 family members have entered this program and been protected and 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.080 relocated by the U. S. Marshals. Right, and by family 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:04.040 Chuck means by marriage or blood, not by you know, crime, family, right, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.720 right of course, like hide my wife and kids along 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:13.400 with me? Right? Yeah? Okay? So um, who's eligible? Chuck? Well, 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:20.240 you have to apply, and the ultimately the application, you know, ultimately, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.280 the the Attorney General gives the stamp of approval, but 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.760 they take certain things into account, like, uh, what you're 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.559 going to testify against, right, it's gotta be big, sure, 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.920 and probably there also can't be any other witnesses that 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.160 have the same information as you that don't need to 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.520 be because it costs some money. So I got the 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.720 idea that they want to try to avoid it if possible. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.400 But if if you have the information and you're guaranteed 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.000 to show up and testify, and you definitely are going 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.760 to need protection because of this testimony, then there's a 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.280 good chance that you might be accepted. Usually it covers 0:10:54.480 --> 0:11:00.160 people who have information big time about organized crime, racketeering, UM, 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.680 major drug offenses, UM, terrorist activities. Yeah, that's kind of 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.319 a new on the scene. That is new and also 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.240 fairly new on the scene are people who are members 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:15.000 of gangs that have information about gang members, big ones. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.240 A lot of them are are fit that mold these days. Right. So, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.200 prosecutor trying a case has a witness puts in an 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.320 application on his or her behalf to the Justice Department. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:30.400 They have a special bureau called the Office of Enforcement Operations, 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.640 right uh, and they get with the Federal Marshal Service 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.840 and basically all these agencies come together to interview the person. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.000 They create a dossier on the potential witness. I love 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.240 that word, by the way, thank you. And one of 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.520 the things that they come up with, is what kind 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.040 of a threat that person will pose to his or 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.520 her new community that I never thought about a lot 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.120 of times, Well, you clearly haven't seen my blue heaven 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:58.959 then a lot of times, Um, these people are criminals themselves. 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.440 And you know, just because the government's moving you doesn't 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.480 mean you're a reformed person. True, although we should say 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:12.000 there's a recipativism rate of sevent in the witness relocation program. Right, 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.600 if you are we're a criminal and you are turning 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.520 state's evidence, you're protected. There's a seventeen percent chance that 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.400 you will go on to commit a crime while under protection. 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.000 It is a bone head, word, isn't it? Uh? Compared 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:31.200 to uh, paroled cons, that's not too bad considering that, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.719 uh it's yes, there's a forty percent chance that will 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.679 go on to commit another crime while on parole or 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.240 off parole. But sure, right, um, so it's not too shabby. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.240 And so far ten thousand I believe more than ten 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:50.120 thousand criminals have been convicted from witness testimony from witnesses 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:54.960 in the witness Relocation program. So it's chance success rate 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.120 of conviction. When when they're using someone who's turning state's evidence, 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.400 which is why it's going on still and why it 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.760 has such a spectacular budget. Apparently this year or in 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.760 two eight, they had a thirty eight million dollar budget 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.080 the Marshall's office did just for witness relocation. Don't you 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.880 get sixty grand a year? Yeah, let's talk about that, chuck. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.480 So let's say that you've been enrolled in the program, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.960 You've been accepted. Uh, what happens is you get a 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:23.679 T shirt says witness Protected person. You remember that Simpsons 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.720 where they go in the witness relocation program? Yes? I do. Yeah? Um, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.600 and did you see that onion article? I sent you 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.439 a witness protection parade. FBI cancels annual Witness Protection Parade. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.640 Yeah that was good. Um. So you've been enrolled in 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.240 the program, you moved out to Tempe, and you are 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.600 living a new life, right, Yes, you're no longer living 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.560 a life of crime. So you were a criminal, or 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.440 so you were a normal person. You don't have your 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.160 job any longer. No, you gotta get any job to 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.120 get to this point. To get to Tempe from say Philly, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:59.120 there are some things you had to do first. Detroit, okay, okay, 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.520 all right to get for them. Detroit to tempt you, 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.560 there were some things you had to do. First. Number one, 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.560 if you have outstanding debts, you gotta pay them first. Yeah. See, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.000 this is something I never would have thought of. No, 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.520 I would think maybe they would just kind of settle 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.319 those because what if you can't pay your debts. I 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.679 imagine that if you have good enough information, they'd pay 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.120 them for you. But I think that part of the 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.400 program is they want you to do that if you can. 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.600 If you and they, I imagine wouldn't know whether you 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.200 have the money or not. Um, But yeah, you have 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:32.760 to pay your outstanding debts. Um, they will change your name. 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:35.640 You get to pick it, though, do you get to 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.400 pic which surprised me. They suggest that you keep the 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.080 same initials and or the same first name. That surprised 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.880 me too. Well, think about it. I mean, if somebody's like, hey, Johnny, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.120 and you look and that was your old name, but 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.600 your new name, you know your new names, you don't 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.200 want to do that. Yeah, but it also makes it 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.080 easier to find once they put out this alert that hey, 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:57.960 they're probably gonna have the same initials and maybe the 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.400 first name. But who wants to go to Tempe? Yeah, 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.720 that's good. Point. All right, so that they are you 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.920 have to clear your debt, they change your name, you 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.360 get all sorts of new records, new birth certificate, new 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.720 Social Security card and all this is handled on the 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.560 down though. But there are records of you changing your name, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.040 changing your social Security number, but it's all sealed. Yeah, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.440 I mean apparently happens just like a regular name change, 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.520 but they seal it off instead of allowing it's it's 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.320 not public record. Names runer. Once you get to Tempe, 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.880 you are um given housing or they help you find housing. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.280 I think it's a temporary thing at first while that 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.479 they just want to get you taken care of immediately, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.600 and then later on they will help you out with 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.840 your ultimate like living after life scenario um and to 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.440 help you live out your ultimate life scenario. How much 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.920 do they get a year, did you say, Chuck? Sixty thousand? 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.240 There called substance payments are on average sixty thousand per year. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.080 And I didn't see in the article that they ran 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.320 out over. Yeah. I couldn't determine whether or not. Once 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.320 you get your job, I didn't know if that was 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.120 to tide you over until you got a stable career, 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.040 or if that was for life. I don't know. I 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.880 don't know either, um, which one could argue, and I'm 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.400 sure many critics have that basically, this is the government 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.360 paying for testimony. Yeah sure, I never thought about that. Um. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:13.960 But you have to try to get a job, or 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.040 you can be dropped. You can't be dropped, or you 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.960 they can stop giving you the subsistence payments. Yeah, I 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:22.600 think that's what happens. But you can go on to 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.040 welfare if you want, right, But they tried. The marshals 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.320 are responsible for I think they said they have to 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.320 give you one job opportunity. They have to bring you 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.120 one job opportunity. Alright, So Chuck, like you said, they 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.320 get you out of Detroit to Tempe as fast as 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.400 they can. They get you whatever, temporary housing until you 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.920 can find real housing. You're getting sixt k a year. Uh, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.760 and you're trying to find a job. But sometimes trials 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.480 drag out for a while. What do they do, I mean, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.720 do they just leave you alone? What happens when it 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.880 comes time to go to trial? This is the most 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.680 dangerous part. Kind of like stealing a nuclear weapon. The 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.800 easiest time to steal one is when it's in transports. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:04.040 Same with protective witness, protected witness. You've got twenty four 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:08.119 hour protective custody like around the area of the trial 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.399 to and from the trial. Clearly, and they use all 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.840 kinds of little tricky ways to make sure that you 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.960 stay alive. Right. Gerald sure wrote a book called wit sec. 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.200 Remember he's the founder of the witness Protection program. Yeah, 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.520 he did, uh, And in it he talks about how 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:27.920 witnesses were delivered by fishing, boat, by mail truck, armored car. Yeah, 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:32.000 and actually they often use armored cars as decoys. Well, 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.320 they bring a witness into in in a normal car 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.119 to the trial. He did that with famously with the 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.359 mafia member Joseph Barboza. Who don't you kind of have 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:43.919 to say it like that, but yeah, clearly, if your 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.320 name is Joseph Barboza, you're born to be in the mafia. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.919 It occurred to me, right now, we're really treading on 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.320 thin nights. We might get greased by the FBI, the marshals, 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.880 or the mafia. So they cover you before trial, they 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.880 cover you after trial, especially during transport, and then after that. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.159 All you have to do is if you remain in 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.159 the in the program, you can remain in it for 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.120 the rest of your life and you just check in 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.800 once a year, I believe is what it is, unless 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.960 you're moving that kind of thing. Yeah, and you you 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.000 definitely have to let them know when you're moving, so 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:15.920 it's not just that they move you to the dump 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.439 and ground of Tempe. There are some rules to follow, 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.120 and we should say that the Marshall's Service is quite 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.879 fond of pointing out that no one who's ever followed 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.720 the rules of the Witness Protection program has ever been killed. Yeah, Josh, 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.680 there are two rules actually, which is you can never 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.760 go back to where you were originally from and you 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.960 can't get in touch with like friends and family members 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.479 from your past life. And apparently, um, it's getting more 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.720 and more difficult to get people to follow the rules. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.600 Which why is that, Well, apparently people are dumber than 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.040 they used to be, sort of what the what the 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.240 deal is from what I read is that, Um, the 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.480 nature of the crimes these days, with gang members and 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:57.200 the like, you're getting younger and younger people turning state's evidence. 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.320 So it's not like the old days of Sammy the Bowl. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.000 Gravano is like in his fifties and he turned state's evidence. 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.239 What was the story you sent from Newsweek that one 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.800 girl seventeen seventeen, she was a member of I think 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:14.160 MS twelve, yes, which is an Hispanic gang um in Virginia. 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:16.280 I think it's all over the place. But she was 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.720 based in Virginia and she turned She apparently had a 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.840 very vivid memory that what what's that quote? That quote 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.399 is beautiful? Yes, her court appointed a lawyer said she 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.479 wasn't just a witness, she was like the rain Man 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.199 of witnesses. Yeah, she'd like to talk, so she spilled it. 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.720 Bro she did. Uh, and they relocated her successfully to 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.000 Kansas City. I think, yeah, they moved her to Kansas City. 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:39.879 She did a while. Uh did a good job for 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:41.760 a little while, and then I was like, oh, I 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:43.920 missed my friends. L O L let me get back 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.920 in touch with my friends and had them come out 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.960 and visit. Yeah. At one point her handler came out 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.639 to check on her. And apparently her handler was supposed 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.400 to be her stepfather, and she um hid her MS 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.800 twelve friends in the bathroom the weekly hotel. They had 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.440 put her up um while he visited. She was really 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.680 trying to stay alive, very she wasn't and you know what, 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:10.040 she didn't know. She didn't actually she yes, she got 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.199 homesick and lonely and went back to Virginia and what 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.200 two days later they found her floating in the river 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.000 I think some other some other person in the witness 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.480 relocation program. Uh. An official of it called her a 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.960 fatality waiting to happen. Yeah, they knew she wasn't in 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.679 for the long haul, right, So it is becoming increasingly 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.680 difficult to protect people. Um, but the as we said, 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.359 the marshals have a really good budget. They are what's 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.760 been called the gold standard of witness protection. If you 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.440 go down to the state and local level, if you're 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.520 a witness secret protection, you're probably going to die. Yeah, 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.040 there are states. A few states have their own programs 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.560 that good ones. I think usually up to about five 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:53.880 hundred thousand is about as much as a state throws 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.800 into witness relocation. And remember, you have to be testifying 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:02.800 in a federal trial to get witness protection from the U. S. Marshals. 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.320 If it's just a state or local trial, it's comer 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.320 at the sheriff's office exactly. That's you're you're getting that 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.960 level of protection from what I understand most um, most 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.320 of the protection you can expect will be to be 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.480 put up in a weekly motel for a couple of 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.640 weeks until the trial, and a bus ticket out of town, 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.680 maybe a security deposit for down payment on an apartment 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.800 somewhere else. That's about it. And that's when Javier Bardem 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.399 shows up at your front door with a with a 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.679 cattle killer. Yeah, and as a result, a lot of 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.119 witnesses are murdered every year in state trial uh in 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.399 New Jersey apparently won't work with anyone who has a 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.280 criminal record. Yeah, So prosecutors are like, this guy can 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.879 shut the case, but he wants witness protection and you 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.160 won't give it to him because he sold crack before 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.479 something New Jersey. You know, I lived there there they 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:56.520 don't have or at least where I was, they didn't 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:01.359 have Um County sanctioned waste disposal. So it was literally 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.000 like the Sopranos. The trash guys would come and it 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.960 would be like lu Chonese trash service on the side 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.760 of the truck and these guys would get off the 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.600 truck and remove your trash. And I always remember thinking, Wow, 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.440 that's an excellent front. So that's it for witness protection. 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:19.639 You can read the article on the site by typing 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.440 in Witness Protection in the handy search bar how stuff 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:24.440